In this strategic episode, Saul Cohen, Partner / CEO of The Expert Eye, shares how to shift from operator to investor mindset for long-term freedom. If you struggle with feeling stuck in daily operations despite success in stage 5, you won't want to miss it.

You will discover:

- Why your identity as an operator must evolve before you can thrive as an investor.

- How to assess your business monthly like an external investor to gain fresh perspective.

- What team additions (beyond C-suite) help you think in portfolios instead of one business.

This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 5 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz

Saul Cohen is an experienced accountant and acquisitions advisor with a career spanning PwC and leadership roles at The Expert Eye. He helps established entrepreneurs transition from business operators to investors by providing strategic financial guidance, including tax planning, acquisitions, and business exits. Saul primarily works with business owners earning £1M+ annually, helping them optimize their wealth, plan successful exits, and achieve long-term financial freedom. He combines technical expertise with practical strategies to empower entrepreneurs to build lasting value, reclaim their time, and create a meaningful legacy.

Want to learn more about Saul Cohen's work at The Expert Eye? Check out his website at https://theexperteye.co.uk/

Connect with Saul through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/cohensaul/

Mentioned in this episode:

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Founder's Quiz

Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again

to the Start scale and succeed podcast. It's the only podcast

that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as

a founder. I'm your host, Scott Ritzheimer, and I want to talk

to those of you who aren't in active founder mode anymore.

You've you've built a successful business, maybe you've led a

successful nonprofit, and now you've stepped back from the day

to day, and you may be discovering that being a great

operator, being a great owner, is very different from being a

great investor. They're two very different skill sets, and it's

such an interesting challenge, because you've kind of for the

first time in this whole journey, you have both wealth

freedom and time freedom. And on some days, if we're honest with

ourselves, it's actually kind of terrifying. Like, what do you

do? You get this Ricky Bobby moment. What do you do with my

hands? And so what we're going to do, we're going to explore

what exactly you can do to make this shift from owner to

operator. And you don't want to hear me blab about it. So we've

got an excellent guest for you today, whose name is Saul.

Cohen. Saul is an experienced accountant and acquisitions

advisor with a career spanning PWC and leadership roles at the

expert eye. He helps established entrepreneurs transition from

business operators to investors by providing strategic financial

guidance, including tax planning acquisitions and business exits.

Saul primarily works with business owners earning over a

million dollars or pounds, I should say, annually, joining us

from the other side of the pond here and helping them to

optimize their wealth, plan successful exits and achieve

long term financial freedom. He combines technical expertise

with practical strategies to empower entrepreneurs to build

lasting value, recreation, reclaim their time and create a

meaningful legacy. And he's here with us today. Saul, welcome to

the show. Glad to have you here. Here. I love this topic because

I have seen it work really, really well for founders. I've

seen it work really, really poorly for some founders as

well. What's the difference between those who thrive as

investors from those who maybe even run the risk of losing it

all?

I think fundamentally, it's an identity

piece, actually, because I think, you know, entrepreneurs

are impressive people, successful entrepreneurs even

more so. And I think it takes a lot to be a successful

entrepreneur and to see out that journey to a successful exit.

And I think fundamentally, if you've made that, if you've rode

that journey at whatever level it was, you know, if you've

achieved that success over 20 years, even if that was to

provide a good, comfortable life for your family, you're living a

good life in retirement. You are the top 1% probably in a top

naught point one naught point 5% you know like you're in that top

bracket, you're an impressive person, and I think that's

important to recognize, because generally, those successful

entrepreneurs are incredibly humble people and and the

interesting thing that I've I've picked up over the years, is the

shift is primarily in their own identity, and that the person

they need to be and the appreciation that this new

person needs to learn new skills and operate in a slightly

different manner.

I don't know that I could describe what has

to happen in every level better than that, because it is. It's a

new set of skills, and it comes from a new understanding of who

you are, or a deeper understanding of who you are. I

think would be even more accurate when we're talking

about this, this identity shift from operator to investor. Where

do you see folks getting hung up?

I think sometimes it's letting go. But I'm

reluctant to say letting go, because I know that every

listener is going to say, No, I want to let go. I love

delegating responsibility, and you know, that's what I want to

do, but I think they find it hard to let go in a way that

enables to let go in a way in which they retain power and

control over the business and over the destination, and that,

I think, is, where is the skill set that's needed. It's and that

often comes from reporting and, you know, understanding the

right numbers. And it's, I suppose it is. Generally, most

entrepreneurs are very creative. You know, people type people.

You know, they love talking to people. They love meeting

people. They love sales, they they love coming up with ideas.

And they're not very numbers driven, right? They're not, they

don't love dealing with KPIs. And you know, holding people to

make, making, holding people accountable to their.

Performance by a number, and it's not in their nature. And so

I think they struggle to come up with the right numbers. And I

always say to people that I work that are my clients and people

that we work with, I always sort of say to them, actually, it's

stop thinking about it in terms of thinking you need to do this,

and start thinking about who do you need in your team who can

hold everyone accountable so you can, you can do this. And often,

that's it's the CFOs role, right? And the CFO will, will be

the guy and you say, right, you know, or the woman who comes in

and they say, right, here's, everyone's got their own PNL.

And these are the three numbers that everyone in the

organization has to have. Sometimes that's the COO

sometimes that's the CFO, between them, you know, if we're

thinking about that, the C suite. And I think is that move

to move into C suite. I think the other thing that I'd

mentioned, obviously, so I'm lucky enough to have done this

at many levels. And one of the interesting things that I

noticed when I left VWC and moved into the small, medium

business world is that there are many individual, family run

businesses, or, you know, a sole entrepreneur type business at

the sort of 1 million, 2 million, even 10 million,

revenue type mark in the US, it might Be a little bit different,

maybe, let's say, like 15, 20 million mark. But above that, it

becomes incredibly rare to find a an entrepreneur who has taken

the business from day dot 200 million, 150 1 billion. You

know, that sort of size company norm on their own. Normally,

they've done so with outside investment, with other people

who've bought in and way of understanding and an

operational, you know, know how of what it means to take that

the business on those journeys. And I do think it's an

incredible like, yeah, as you say, every, every level,

entrepreneurs just have to learn so much. And yeah, I think this

is probably one of the biggest jumps in terms of saying I'm an

owner operator to I'm an investor, because it changes so

much about your identity and also about your day to day.

Yeah, here's one of the the, I guess,

seemingly subtle but really important shifts that I see

folks make, and it's, it's probably most simply put as a

shift from one to many. When you're the founder owner, your

job is to lead your organization, singular, your

business singular. When you shift out of that stage of being

the CEO being the one who's leading the enterprise. If you

don't stop thinking in terms of just that one organization,

you're going to get in the way right, or you're going to get

really bored. And that's even worse. And so how do you help

folks to kind of lift their gaze? That's, that's, you know,

historically been confined, at least to some extent, by their

business, to be able to think in terms of businesses or as an

investor with a portfolio mindset.

It's interesting, because I think it's a great,

fantastic question, and I think it's really common, and the most

common way in which I see people do it is they the way

entrepreneurs learn everything is just through stumbling around

and, you know, figuring it out. You know, maybe they set a

business, they decide they want to get back into it, and they

reach a level of success much faster because they know the

journey, and they they already start naturally thinking,

because they're comparing the two businesses that they've run

in their own experience and suddenly, like it's just like a

natural switch and a natural progression. And that's the most

common way in which it's done. I think the best way that I've

ever seen it being done is people taking time out of their

first business. They take time out they plan in their first in

their existing business, they stop for maybe one day a month,

or, you know, some people I know are doing this, you know, once a

week, even depending on on the level and what's feasible. But

you stop at least one day a month, and you go outside of the

business, find a nice environment to work in, and you

you sit down with like a, essentially a check in, and you

assess your business as an investor. Now the best way to do

that a level above that would be to do it with a mentor or

someone who is already an investor, maybe like an SME type

investor or an angel, or, you know, a friend that you know who

who's already exited, and you know someone who could be a

mentor and just sort of guide you through that process, but

actually you do that from an outsider's point of view, and

say, right? How would an outsider assess my business

right now? What would what are the strengths? What are the

weaknesses? What are the opportunities? What threats are

they seeing? What is the single biggest bottle? Neck. And I

think, honestly, I do this personally in my business, and

it's just, it's incredible the perspective that you get when

you do that, and you take that time, and you just so anyway,

operationally, it's fantastic. But in terms of changing your

own headspace, I think that's amazing as well, because you

start acting as an investor, and it's only a small amount of

time, one day a month, you know, again, really important. You're

not contactable by the team. You're completely switched off

from the business. But it allows you that ability, that one day a

month, to step into the world of of your next level and and once

you do that, then you start learning more about how you want

the investor that you want to become.

Yeah. So you've you've mentioned getting

help and having someone come alongside you a couple of times

throughout this. Now, I think this is another one of those

really big differences between level five CEO stage and level

six owner stages, who your team is, right? We talked about COO

and CFO, and those are really instrumental roles on an

executive team. But being in level six, you need other folks

who are outside of that business to help you engage outside of

that business. Who do you see folks bringing onto their team,

after their executive team?

After C suite? You mean, yeah, well, often it's,

well, it's one of two, two things. We're either bringing on

experience, or we're bringing on finance. Experience is great

because it means that you don't dilute your equity. And in

someone can give you some know how and and knowledge. And

essentially, it's like a coach at a different level. And you

know, you might have a non Executive Director, or someone

who's been there, done that they've seen a couple of exits

in your industry, type, type person, incredibly valuable. And

it allows you to, it allows you to morph into that role in a

more gradual way. And it will again, fundamentally change your

business. The other way will be when people sell out. So if they

sell out to private equity, or they sell out to an individual

investor, I think that that's really valuable, because those

people are by nature of the fact that they are investors. They're

people who have been there and done that, and they've made many

acquisitions, probably before, and they'll pump money into your

business. They'll see opportunities that you might

have missed. You know, they'll come with a different, renewed

energy, and they will take you on a journey with them. I don't

always recommend that route only because I think it can. I think

most entrepreneurs, for 19 7% of entrepreneurs, I think that the

reason why they get into business is because they want an

element of freedom and flexibility. They want to be

their own boss, and to have done that for 1015, even five years,

and then achieve the level of success and then put yourself,

you know, to work for someone else. I think that's an it's

really difficult dynamic. And Yeah, honestly, I've never

actually seen that work. Yeah, yeah. So I think, I think it's

those two ways to do it, but I would always go with, you know,

particularly for most entrepreneurs who are just

thinking, yeah, how do I evolve? I would always go with the

first.

Yeah. I think that's a really interesting

point, and it's one of the reasons why I'll often separate

founders from entrepreneurs. There's a few reasons for that,

but one of them is, you could have an entrepreneur who's who

wasn't necessarily there at the start right that they're an

owner of a small, medium enterprise and are very

entrepreneurial in nature. They're they're just, they're

wired differently than founders, especially the the founders who

are successful enough to get out of those early stages and still

operate at this stage. They're very much like you said, like

almost none of them are happy working for somebody else.

That's why they started this thing in the first place. But

that's not true of all owners. You know, there are lots of

owners that I've seen who have inherited the business or bought

the business, who don't mind bringing in other partners. So

it's not all owners, but it's very much found that founder

entrepreneurial drive, I couldn't agree more in that

space. Yeah. So Saul, I've got this question before I let you

go, and it's one that has one of my guests. I'm very interested

to see what you have to say. But the question is this, what is

the biggest secret you wish wasn't a secret at all? What's

that one thing you wish every founder watching or listening

today knew?

The valuation on their business. I think that one

of the things that really prompted me to leave the big

four and you know, I loved doing the work I did there, and it was

incredible training, and it was just incredible environment, but

one of the things that really prompted me to leave. Was when

my dad came to sell his own business, and I just I was in

shock over the fact at the time I was in shock. Now I completely

understand it, but I was in shock at the fact that no one

had told him anything about the process of selling his business.

And after your own home, the business is probably the biggest

asset that most business owners own, and you know it's its value

is massively material. It makes a massive difference to your

life. And you know, if you knew five years before you wanted to

exit that you could do three or four things to change the

valuation and improve that valuation, you absolutely would

have done it, but the fact is that no one told you what the

valuation was and what the drivers are that affects that

valuation. And what I've seen in many, many cases is that

entrepreneurs will go on hearsay and what they've heard from

other people that they've exited. And you know, the

conditions aren't always the same, and often I've just seen

people really, really disappointed with their exit.

And I think that's a massive shame, because entrepreneurs are

incredible people. I have utmost respect for them founders as

well. We're separating two utmost, utmost respect for them

and what they do and the work that they put in. And I'm

passionately believe that they have the right to exit on

fantastic terms and live, you know, their retirement in

luxury. And I think it's a shame when that doesn't happen because

of one or two things that they just didn't know. And you know,

people often say, Well, shouldn't the accountant know

that? Why didn't their accountant tell them? And the

sad truth of it is that most accountants will work on an

acquisition, maybe like one or two acquisitions a year. You

know, it's just not something that they do. It's not their

bread and butter. And when you're doing that 40 maybe a

year, 30 or 40 a year, it's completely different. You see

patterns in a different way, and you're able to explain different

things. So that is absolutely, I just, I wish everyone was, you

know, empowered with that knowledge. Yeah, maybe that's an

app.

So good. So there's some folks in this mode.

They're trying to figure out what's going to come next. They

want to know how they can get the most. Out of their business

and make this shift from shift from operator to investor. Where

can they learn more about the work that you do? Where can they

connect with you?

So LinkedIn is absolutely I'm posting on there

all the time. I've also, we've got a newsletter. I can give you

the link to that newsletter goes out quickly, and I am also

writing a book due to come out in a couple of months, and we

have a waitlist to that as well.

Fantastic, fantastic. I love it. We'll get

all those in the show notes for you all. Highly recommend that

you check them out. I know I'm excited about the book that's

coming in short order. It's this quite the process, and I'm in it

myself, so I know what you're going through, at least to some

extent. But anyway, Saul, thanks for being on the show. It really

was a privilege and honor having you here today. I appreciate

your time, and those of you who are watching and listening

today, you know that your time and attention mean the world to

us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I

did, and I cannot wait to see you next time, take care.