Navigating Grief and Growth in Music with We Are All Fossils

In this episode of Curious Goldfish, host Jason English engages in a deep conversation with Deist, the founder of the musical project We Are All Fossils. They dive into the origins of the project's name, the personal impact of losing Deist's mother, and his journey of gaining a worldwide following organically. Deist performs a song called 'The West' and discusses the influence of Sufjan Stevens on his music. The conversation also covers the transformative power of grief on Deist's creative process and his aspirations for future projects, underscoring the podcast's commitment to exploring music and curiosity through insightful discussions with musicians.

00:00 Introduction and Personal Reflections

00:55 Welcome to Curious Goldfish Podcast

01:28 Continuing the Conversation with Deist

02:13 Deep Dive into 'The West'

04:07 Growing Momentum and Listener Base

05:32 Exploring International Collaborations

08:33 Navigating the Challenges of the Music Industry

12:00 Influence and Inspiration from Sufjan Stevens

17:40 Looking Forward: Future Projects and Aspirations

23:17 Live Performance: 'The West'

25:48 Wrapping Up and Saying Goodbye

26:07 Outro: Stay Curious

Deist (We Are All Fossils):

And for me now.

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I'm at a place where I feel like the next

part of what my stages are in grief is

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just to kind of let go of the control of

what I expect of things and just let it

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kind of be so in a weird way, I, I feel

like taking a step back and just, I.

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Just doing not, not, not

perceiving what's gonna be.

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Um, and just that being it.

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So I'm, I'm excited to

see what comes from that.

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I don't know, I actually feel a

bit nervous because it's doing

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things in a whole different

way of what I've done before

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Jason English (Host): Welcome to

curious goldfish, a podcast community

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where music and curiosity come together

through interesting conversations

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with the music makers of our world.

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I'm your host, Jason English.

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You can find curious goldfish and all the

major podcast and social media platforms.

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And of course, we have all of

our content on our website.

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Curious goldfish.

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com.

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We are continuing our conversation with

Deist, the founder of We Are All Fossils.

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In part one, we laid the foundation of the

background of this unique musical project.

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We talked about the origin

of the name and some of the

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incredible things Deist has done.

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In the second part, he shares insights

into the personal impact of losing

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his mother, as well as how he has

organically grown his worldwide

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following in just the past few months.

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He performs a song for us called The West.

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And we go deep on our mutual

admiration of American independent

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folk legend, Sufjan Stevens.

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Both parts will be posted on YouTube

as this is also the first video

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podcast episode in the short history

of the curious goldfish podcast.

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Once again, here's we are all fossils.

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Let's jump back in.

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another track that, it's caught my

attention, it's called the West.

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what's the origin of that one?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): the

West, uh, funny enough, when

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you were saying about Indie Folk

Central, that's, that's one of the.

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First curators that took a

song was, it was The West,

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and it was Indie Folk Central.

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They were like, oh, we love this track.

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And I didn't think anything of the song.

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It was a bit of a, I wouldn't

say a throwaway song.

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It's something I don't

remember really writing.

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I remember showing it to one of my

best friends and him just going, you

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know, he, he gave a response, which

I was like, I didn't, no, that was

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on the cards, but Oh, that's amazing.

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Um, but the West is, it's really

to do with how you can choose to

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see, uh, struggles and your life.

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Um, not like, it's always easy, uh,

I don't think it's easy at all, but,

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um, there's, uh, a, a lyric in it.

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When I say, um, you can save

tomorrow or you can relive yesterday,

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you can drown in sorrow and you

can, or you can feel the pain.

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not, yeah, those things are.

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And they're not necessarily choices, but

at some points you can align yourself

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with, um, maybe thinking about tomorrow

in a way of being like, you know,

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I'm not defined by what's happened

in my past, but I, I can actively put

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forward who I believe I am every day.

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You know, if it's just better than the,

than what was happening the day before.

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That's, that's it.

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You, you, you're doing amazing.

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You know?

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So to me that was about, um,

inspiring hope, I guess again.

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Jason English (Host): No, that's,

uh, yeah, I love that line.

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I

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love, love, love that line.

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'cause it, it can apply to

so many different situations.

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And like you said earlier, music

should be personal and, it's funny how

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people put out lyrics and situations

and scenes and you're able to.

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To sort of apply that to your own

experience, you know, and, um, either

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get through a, a situation or help

you think about things differently.

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So, uh, I love that line.

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Yeah.

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So tho

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those two are

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great.

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And again, you've talked about numbers

and, and, and things like that, but, uh.

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you've picked up a lot of momentum, I

think in the last, you know, few months,

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uh, maybe, maybe a little bit longer.

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And I think, you know, on Spotify they

show, your number of monthly listeners,

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you've about 68,000 monthly listeners,

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which is a great

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number.

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Obviously we hope it's gonna

grow and grow and grow.

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I guess how recently did, did you

see things kind of taking off for you

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and what do you attribute that to?

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I.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Well,

um, I kind of, I released fire

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and I think that was in about

October, maybe late September.

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Sorry, I'm really bad with the dates.

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I should know when my

songs were were released.

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that kind of just, it

something just resonated.

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It was just a good time for it to happen.

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Um, I had a couple of shows

booked in and around it.

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Um, there's a.

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Some people I work with around, uh,

the like area who were helping promote

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things and it was really all quite

organic with what we were doing.

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Um, and I just kind of saw that

it was, you know, doing good.

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And, uh, you, I think you, you learn after

you've released like a lot of songs that,

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that's completely out of your control.

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So enjoy it for what it is.

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Don't make plans thinking it's gonna

be like this tomorrow and like that

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the next day, or, you know, um.

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So the only thing I could do that I

was gonna enjoy to, to maybe make more

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people find the, the, the music potential

was just to release some more tracks.

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Um, and I, I then released a

song with, a Canadian artist.

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It was my first kind of international

collaboration, um, with Genesis Richter.

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that was kind of out the blue.

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It just worked out.

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That fire came out.

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Then our track, um, Dead End came out

like a couple of weeks, like later.

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And then, the track I did with

Tasha Robertson, uh, came out a

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couple of weeks later after that.

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And none of this was really, I was like,

oh, I think this is actually really bad.

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You shouldn't be doing

this with algorithms.

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They'll be like, oh,

he seems really needy.

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and then, it just kind of kept

snowballing and increasing, increasing

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and I don't, 'cause it's so new to

me, I don't, I don't really know

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what to make of it all just yet.

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Um.

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Uh, there was some days where

I was like, oh, uh, I should be

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doing more like stuff on Instagram.

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I should be doing more things on YouTube.

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And that's quite overwhelming for me.

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So I'm kind of like slowly

putting some things together

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and still just being myself, um,

with how I started the process.

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And just want to do that.

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'cause it feels like being yourself.

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Um.

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It's just gonna be the easiest.

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Right?

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so just do that rather than become,

you know, I think as soon as people

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talk about algorithms and, and all that

kind of stuff, I just, I check out.

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It's such a hard thing.

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I.

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From a creative point to understand

that there's other things at play,

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um, you know, not, not begrudging

you or anything, that's just the

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kind of world that we live in.

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But, um, yeah, so I'm extremely

thankful for the plays.

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I'm scared that they'll go

and then that there's nothing,

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you know, as most people are.

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I I, or maybe it's a glitch, and

then they'll be like, oh, that,

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streams that you had, we're gonna

have to take 'em away from you.

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Jason English (Host): yeah, right.

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yeah.

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You refresh

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it, you refresh it, and one day

it's 6,000 instead of 68,000.

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You

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know, that's like,

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): And

then somehow they send you a bill or

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something and you're like, I don't,

you know, or you have to recoup

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all, all those streams, you know?

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But, um, yeah, I'm

incredibly thankful for it.

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I think Spotify plays a role for

musicians to weirdly validate,

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uh, you know where you're going.

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So if you are applying to maybe

support a band and they look at your

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Spotify and, and there's some good,

you know, numbers there, they might

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feel a bit more inclined to then.

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Take a, you know, a, a chance on you.

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Um, so I think it's kind of

effectively like a key that opens

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a door, um, you know, slowly, but

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Jason English (Host): other than

some of these curated playlists and,

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and things like Indie Folk Central,

you haven't really spent any time in

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the States, right, with your music.

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Right.

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Just

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in, in person.

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Right.

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So like, you haven't, you know, my

whole thing is like, I think, am I

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your first, uh, at least American

media outlet to interview you?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils):

You are, you are.

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And it's incredible 'cause um, I was

quite nervous about it 'cause I was not

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sure really how, how, how it would feel.

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But then the fact that you like

what we, we, we like the same

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artists and like that, it just

feels like this is so meant to be.

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Um, which is But yeah, I

would, I would love to, um.

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Play in America, and, and weirdly, I

think the, the cities that I'm, I'm,

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the biggest in there in like Australia.

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And America and Canada.

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Um, and the UK.

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The UK has like, because I don't have

that much to compare it to, I dunno

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what other countries are like, but the

UK is definitely going through a a, a

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place where the grassroots music and

the middle bit before the big bands,

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it's really like, there's so scarce,

there's not much support really, yeah,

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it's really, A challenging place to be.

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Uh, there's a lot of us that will be in

this kind of scenario and, you know, you

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have to redefine what you think success is

and, build the things around you so that

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you, you know, there's so many challenges.

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There's so many things that

you get said no to, and, and so

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many opportunities that aren't.

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Um, you know, there, As long as you can

just enjoy what you're doing firsthand.

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You know, those, those, rejections

and things like that, they don't stick

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as much as they, you know, could do.

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But, um, I, I pine so hard to just go and

play in Australia or, um, America, you

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know, a lot of the musicians that I like,

like Gregory, I think he's from Colorado

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and Nathaniel Rateliff in Colorado.

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Jason English (Host): Yep.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils):

And Nathaniel Rateliff is also

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someone which I, I, I love.

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Um, I, I adore, uh, the second

album he released, it was just

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falling faster than you can run.

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I think that's what called.

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Um,

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Jason English (Host):

there's a great album.

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Uh, that Nathaniel Rateliff

did during c where it's a live

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album at Red Rocks and there's

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no one in the,

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there's no one in the venue.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Yeah.

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I've watched that on YouTube,

I I think you can watch it on

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Jason English (Host): Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So that's, uh, that's really good.

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Uh,

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well, you'll have to make it over

and, uh, so I live in Atlanta.

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And, and, and your

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style of music

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would, I mean, people would.

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Really dig it, uh, at

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least in the south, here

in the southeastern part

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of the, uh, of the country.

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So, and the reason I brought that up

is you're, you've had some success.

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Uh, it's, it's, it feels like it's growing

and growing and growing, but really

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it's probably just limited to, I guess

listeners and viewership that you come

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across, uh, you know, come in contact

with in, in Great Britain, and then

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through these curated playlists, right?

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So you haven't really even.

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Intentionally done any proactive

promotion in, in the United States.

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So that, uh, that's insane that you've

already curated, that many listeners.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Yeah, I

mean it's, um, I I, I get a bit blown

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away by, by when you put it like that.

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I'm like, oh my.

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it's, it's kind of one of those things

where you, you just kind of enjoy

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the, the journey of it, I guess.

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But, uh, coming to America,

that would be amazing.

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Uh, I, I don't, I'm not sure exactly.

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I think in the UK the indie folk

scene is, which I kind of would put

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myself in, or contemporary folk.

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I'm not sure how, you know, how you

really define yourself, but, um.

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It's not that widely known here

to the, to the point where people

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will know the same bands, you know?

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So Gregory Alan Isakov, if I say that to

someone else, they won't really know, um,

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the Lumineers they would because of Ho Hey

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uh, that's a big, big track here,

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but, it's still quite in its

infancy, so the dots of everybody

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hasn't really joined up yet.

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So, um.

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I'm sure there's loads of indie folk

artists in the uk, but it's nowhere

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near as as big as it, as it seems

out where you guys are I think you

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guys are like the promised land now.

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to get there.

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Jason English (Host): Well, no,

what's cool about the Indie folk

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Central too is, uh, they play

a lot of artists from Australia

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and, not that Australia can't

make great, great music, but you

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never, I, I never kind of, I.

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Made that connection.

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And, uh, so I, I appreciate that because,

you know, it's just a great, it's great

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exposure to artists that you would

never otherwise have heard of, you know?

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Um,

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Alright, so Sufjan Stevens, the fact

that you are naming your project after a

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lyric in one of his songs is incredible.

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I.

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Um, I came across Sufjan.

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Uh, there's a, there's a magazine here,

in the States called Paste Magazine,

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and they used to release these samplers

of all these kind of indie artists on

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cd and you would, uh, you know, you'd

get the magazine and they'd send you

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a cd, which is, which is pretty cool.

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And, uh, he, he came out with an

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uh, come on, feel, the Illinois.

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Which is kinda a play on

word with the state in the

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United States called Illinois.

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And uh,

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the rumor at the time was he was

gonna do a, a CD or an album on

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every state in the United States.

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So I

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was like, okay, there's 50

albums coming out, you know,

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in the next however many years.

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And I think he only got to two.

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Uh, he did, he did

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one in Michigan and then one in Illinois.

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But, uh, yeah, I guess what,

what are some of your favorite

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songs from, uh, from Sufjan?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Um, well,

uh, the one I got introduced to, um,

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was the, uh, the John Wayne Gacy,

track, which was off of that album

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that I think you refer to the you know,

um, a friend of mine in South Africa,

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uh, a kind of a bit of a guru for me.

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Uh, someone who always kind of shows

me stuff at the right moments of.

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Of when I met maybe a transitional space.

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Um, he just sent me the track

and I'm not even sure if he

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said anything before or after.

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And I had it on repeat.

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I had it on repeat and I just thought I

was in awe of how he wrote the, the track

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and, you know, it's a subject matter

which you can't approach lightly at all.

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Um, and it's, it's such a, um,

it, it showed me something that

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in music that I was like, oh,

you can do something like that.

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And it's still.

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I, 'cause for some reason I felt like, you

know, you couldn't do that kind of thing.

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But, and then, then that opened up

the floodgates for, for that album,

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which is absolutely incredible.

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And there's another song off the

Michigan album, uh, I think it's

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for, for the Widowless or the, it's,

um, can't remember exactly this.

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It's a long track title name,

um, for the widows in Paradise.

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And the fatherless in Ypsilanti,

or I think that's kind of

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maybe what it's called,

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um, that had, uh, the same kind of core

feelings what John Wayne Gacy track

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had for me, and he did it with a banjo.

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Uh, and you often hear a banjo like

really fast and, you know, showing

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you all these quick little notes.

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But that was like a sad, uh,

you know, banjo with this kind

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of really, uh, emotive lyrics.

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Um, and then obviously the big album

for me became Carrie and Lowell.

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I, I, I thought that that from front

to back that album was something

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that I couldn't stop listening to for

that whole year and maybe the year

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after, because it was incredible.

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I, I like how, how personal his vocals

always feel when you you hear him,

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you know, there's no denying when

you hear his voice, uh, it's very

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like, oh, this is definitely Sufjan.

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Um.

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Yeah, he's, he's kind of a bit

of like a, a genius I guess.

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'cause he has loads of other

types of, I'm more drawn to

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the slower emotive tracks has.

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But he's got like a big catalog of, I

know he's got like a Christmas album

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that's got like loads and loads of tracks.

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But if I had to pick the ones that

stand out to me, it would be those ones.

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Jason English (Host): Yeah, and I think,

uh, his, his latest one's called Javelin

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and, uh, I think it's a return to, to

Carrie and Lowell and, uh, you know,

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parts of parts of Illinois, which I love.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Yeah.

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Jason English (Host): that's great.

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Yeah.

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The, my favorite

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on, uh, Illinois is, uh, speaking of long

titles, it's called like Predatory Wasp of

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the.

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Palisades or something.

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I

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mean, it's like, okay, how, how did

you come up with this, you know,

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uh,

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about a wasp on the arm?

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And I don't know, but it, the,

again, I'm not a musician.

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I can't sing.

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I can't play an in instrument, but the

melody on that is just, it's intoxicating.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils):

That, that's one of my favorite

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tracks from that album too.

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I mean, um, I.

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It's the lyrical, the lyrics are so out

there that you, for me, I just start to

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imagine what's happening and I'm like,

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you know, and it just kind

of, it completes itself.

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But, um, I actually bought a it on vinyl

and I went for like the, the deluxe one.

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'cause I was like, I need the puff one of

this, and it, it folds out and everything.

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And there's

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all these, there's all these pictures

that were drawn, um, of the, the key

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elements of each track, you know?

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Jason English (Host): yeah, the,

the Illinois album is, is legendary.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Yeah.

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I, I, if I'm honest, I haven't

checked out the new album, um, yet.

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You know, when you're just

on like a different kind of.

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Been, um, I've been finding myself

back in, uh, there's this album

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by Ben Howard called, um, uh, is

it, uh, I forget where we were.

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I think that's it.

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It's quite funny that I'm saying

that quite questioning myself.

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I forget where we were.

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Um, so I'm kind of, I think 'cause,

'cause I'm, I'm, I'm in a park now where

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I'm, I'm recording a lot of music again.

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So you are drawn to certain tr

albums and things that will fuel w.

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The right kind of juices, um, for, for

that creativity, if that makes sense.

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So, um, but I haven't

checked out the new album.

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I I do, I do need to.

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I know I'll love it and that will be

my year gone for next year musically.

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Spotify Wrapped be like just this song.

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Jason English (Host): No, the,

my favorite on that is it's

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called my, uh, my red little fox.

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Yeah, my red little fox.

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So

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Nice.

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I'll, well considering we like a

lot of the same songs that, I'm just

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gonna spin that after we finish this.

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Jason English (Host): so this, the, the

podcast that I do here, you know, it's all

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about interviewing interesting musicians

and, and hearing about their stories.

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A lot of it has to do with, you know,

sort of this idea of curiosity, I

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guess, at this stage in your career,

uh, in your mid thirties, what,

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what are you most curious about?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils):

Uh, oh, that's a good question.

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I like that.

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I'm curious of, what the kind of next

project for me is really gonna, uh.

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I'm not gonna be, 'cause I'm,

I'm kind of near, near the end

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of writing all these songs.

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I've, I've kind of finished the demoing

and extensive kind of like working

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through a lot of tracks and it's

going down a different, place for me.

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it's something which unfortunately, I,

I, I lost my mother, uh, two years ago.

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and that, that really

changed me as a person.

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And, you know, grief is a

very, very, tricky place to,

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to understand and navigate.

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and that's kind of, I've been going

through a process where my music's always

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been quite introspective and it's always

been going through all these things.

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And for me now.

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I'm at a place where I feel like the next

part of what my stages are in grief is

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just to kind of let go of the control of

what I expect of things and just let it

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kind of be so in a weird way, I, I feel

like taking a step back and just, I.

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Just doing not, not, not

perceiving what's gonna be.

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Um, and just that being it.

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So I'm, I'm excited to

see what comes from that.

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I don't know, I actually feel a

bit nervous because it's doing

400

things in a whole different

way of what I've done before.

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musically, I'm recording a lot of the

other stuff here at my house, um, then

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taking it to Mike and then we're, we're

shaping it into what it's gonna be.

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So I'm allowed to be.

404

Way more experimental here.

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'cause I'm not, I'm not, worried about

wasting Mike's time in the studio.

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'cause he, he's, he's incredible.

407

He works with amazing artists

and he always makes space for me,

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which I'm always so thankful for.

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Um, but I'm going in there showing

him something and, um, yeah.

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So I guess that's, I hope that

answers what you, what you've asked.

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Jason English (Host): No, that's cool.

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I guess, can you tell me more about that?

413

What, how do you know

it's gonna be so different

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Um.

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Jason English (Host): terms of,

is that the songwriting process

416

or is it the type, the kind of,

the type of music that you're.

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Experimenting with.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): so a

lot of the tunings of the guitar is

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standard, which most of the tracks

I've released would be standard tuning.

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So from the initial stage of

writing the, the songs, there

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is, um, loads of de-tune guitars.

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And I've experimented with loads

of, um, like tunings like that.

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And that's changed the way that I would.

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Kind of write the lyrics and vocals.

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Um, I don't think it's gonna be,

it might not feel that different to

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other people, but for me, the, the

process from the beginning has got

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a different, you know, ingredients.

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So, um, I think that that's that.

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And I've kind of got into more

of the production side of music.

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my dream would be if I can't go and play

shows around the world, which, that would

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be the, the, the dream for all musicians.

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If I can't do that, um, I want to work

a little bit more from home be more

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creative, you know, uh, 'cause I can't

always go out and play, uh, shows and do

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those things to, you know, it's a real dry

couple of months in January and December.

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So, um, you know, the production side,

I've, I've included, and the best thing

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is you, you can hear something in your

head and now you can translate it.

437

Um, straight away if you

know how to get there.

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But when I'm working with someone and

you're just trying to explain a feeling

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of a sound, you sound a bit crazy.

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So, um, yeah, I feel like there's a lot

more of honesty and myself, uh, with who

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I am now in the songs, um, to come, um,

or at least that's what it feels like now.

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Jason English (Host): Are you,

uh, are you planning a new

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album in, in the near future?

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What, what can we expect in 2024 from you?

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Oh, that is exciting.

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Um, I don't, I Besides coming to

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the, besides coming to the

states some way, somehow.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): yeah, I've

got like a, a whole US tour come in.

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It's gonna be massive.

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No.

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Um, I, um, I, I would like to say

yes to that, but I'm, the reason

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why it's hard to say yes is I was

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Um, and that process was hard

because obviously, you know, going

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through covid and working through

that kind of stuff and you change

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as a person, especially after grief.

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So I had an idea of, um.

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Having this planned and an album's

gonna come out and all these things, and

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I, I, you know, having to let that go

and be okay with those songs, you, you

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know, I'm, I'm, I'm putting away quite

a lot of songs that are finished because

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I can't relate with to them anymore.

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Jason English (Host): Way.

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Really.

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Wow.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): yeah, so it's

not, I can't, I can't finish the process

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because the, the sounds of the instruments

don't sound like rife anymore or, you

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know, it is quite pernickety I guess.

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But, um, so.

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I would like to say that there

will be an album, but I think

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for now I can definitely say that

there will be a single, 'cause

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I just, I just finished that.

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Um, and it's been mastered and

everything, so that physically has

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got to a point where I can get there.

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But I'd like to say there'll be an album,

um, you know, all the work that's allowing

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that to be a possibility is in motion.

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I just don't want to repeat a

mistake of being like, for, for

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three years saying there's gonna be

an album just shelving it, you know?

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Um,

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Jason English (Host): We'll, we'll

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take what we can get for sure.

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So if it's one, if it's one at a

time, if you drip it for the next

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few years, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll,

we'll be anxiously awaiting for

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): yeah.

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No, that's very kind.

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That's very kind.

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Jason English (Host): So I

really appreciate it Deist.

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It's so nice to meet you and, uh, I

think there's a guitar behind you.

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Would you mind playing

488

us

489

some music?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): I

would love to play some music.

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Well, I'll play the west.

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Um, let's see how that one goes.

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You can take the water,

494

you can.

495

From,

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you can drink a dry,

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but you can't see the

storm's coming from the west.

498

Been for days.

499

You can see.

500

You can save tomorrow a relief.

501

Yes.

502

Today

503

you can drown in sorrow.

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Feel the pain.

505

You can see the storm is

coming out from the west.

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Been how for days.

507

You can see the.

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You can see.

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Jason English (Host): Deist.

510

Days.

511

Thank you so much.

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Deist (We Are All Fossils):

Thank you for having me.

513

It's been an absolute pleasure.

514

Thank you.

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Jason English (Host):

516

Let's keep in touch.

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Okay?

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Deist (We Are All Fossils): Yeah, yeah.

519

No, thank you very much.

520

Yeah, all the best for 2024.

521

Cheers.

522

Jason English (Host): Thanks so

much for joining us for another

523

episode of Curious Goldfish.

524

Please follow and subscribe to

the podcast and on social media.

525

Also tell your music loving

friends about us too.

526

Until next time, stay curious.