We all know that we will lose someone important and precious to us in our lifetime. It’s not an ‘if’ but a ‘when’. However, no one is expecting to lose a sibling early in life and the lifetime of unknowns that follow.

In today’s episode we welcome Bethany Adams who lost her younger brother Hudson in 2016 at the age of 19. No one is supposed to leave this world that young and there is no road map to help navigate the lasting impact of such grief. Don’t miss this conversation filled with memories and a ‘what matters most’.

To read Bethany’s blog post; ‘Reflections’, please visit our blog: http://hopethrugrief.com/reflections

We welcome your comments and questions! Send an email to hopethrugrief@gmail.com and please share our show with anyone you know that is struggling with loss and grief. You can find us on the internet to continue the conversation!

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Website: http://hopethrugrief.com.

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Jordan Smelski Foundation: http://www.jordansmelskifoundation.org

Tune in for new episodes every Thursday morning wherever you listen to podcasts!

Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski, co-hosts of Hope Thru Grief are not medical, or mental health professionals, therefore we cannot and will not give any medical, or mental health advice. If you, or anyone you know needs medical, or mental health treatment, please contact a medical, or mental health professional immediately.

Thank you

Marshall Adler

Steve Smelski

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of Hope Thru Grief.

I'm one of your co-hosts Steve Smelski.

I'm here with my good friend and co-host Marshall Adler.

Hello, everybody.

Hope you're doing well today.

So today we have a special guest on her name is Bethany

Adams, and we're going to talk a little bit today about a sibling loss.

It's one of the things that we haven't touched on.

And, uh, we decided to see if Bethany would join us today.

Bethany, I just want to thank you so much for agreeing

to talk today and being our guest.

And I just want to tell you that, uh, for me, this will be a very

insightful discussion because, um, I lost my son Matt, two years ago,

I was 32 years old and his younger brother, David is obviously in your

position with losing a sibling.

So I've been very, very interested in any insights and comments you could

give from a siblings loss perspective.

So again, thank you so much for agreeing to be our guest today, but

if you could just start out and just tell us your story, that'd be great.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

And thank you guys so much for having me on the podcast as well.

It's really an honor for me to be able to share my story and to be able to how'd

that go a little farther into the world.

That's great, That's

great

So my name is Bethany and I lost my brother four years ago.

It was July of 2016.

I was in college.

It was my second sophomore year of college.

I had just finished my first semester of nursing school.

So it was the summer after that and I was at home.

He was off working at camp.

We spent a few I think a month together, I got home in May.

We spent about a month, both together at home.

He was in high school at the time, just graduating.

We had his high school graduation in May, and then he went off to camp and I had a

summer internship doing kind of summer, summer camps for kids here in Houston.

So fast forwarding a little bit to June.

It was Father's Day um, and this is the last time that I

actually really saw Hudson.

So he had come home for Father's Day.

He had real short weekends off at camp.

Uh, so he'd come home for father's day and we went to the beach and I

just remember that being such a, I, I think it really highlighted the

fact that we were both very much.

In the same stage of life, he was kind of entering my stage.

So for half of high school, we were kind of in the same stage.

Um, and then we were kind of entering that again with college.

So I remember just talking about college, giving him advice about college, uh,

talking about his time at camp and just really relating to each other

cause I don't think it was until we were teenagers that we started really.

Really relating to each other and feeling like we were in the same

stage of life, but I just remember being out in the waves, me and him

like went out and we were swimming.

We were catching waves and then a storm kind of rolled in and we, we

had to run, run out of the, the ocean real fast pack up, all our stuff.

He kind of, he was always super helpful.

He would always just kind of grab everything and go.

And, and then he went off in his car and he ended up actually getting locked

out of his car at a What-a-Burger.

And no, it was a James Coney James Coney Island.

And he, I, I didn't see him after that because he came home real late.

And then I had to go to work in the morning that was in June and then in

July was when everything happened.

So I was at work and my mom called me and told me that she would, they

were going up to camp to pick them up.

And he had called a few days before this was on a Monday.

He had called on Friday and said he felt sick.

And of course I was, uh, just starting nursing school.

So I was like, thinking about everything.

I was like, Oh, what could it be?

What, you know, I was like, Oh, he's, he's sick.

He had a headache.

So I was kind of giving him my advice.

Oh, just take some ibuprofen.

This, it was just flu, like symptoms really.

So then on Monday was when the camp called my parents and

told them to come pick him up.

So I was at work and my mom said that they were going to pick thim up.

But at this point we still didn't know that it was going to be as bad as it was.

So they went and when they got there, he was very much, you

know, pretty much unresponsive.

And so, so that's when they called us and when we, they called me and my older

brother, um, and we realized that it was more serious than we had thought.

So I, I was staying, I was with my little sister at the time.

She was 10.

I was 20 years old.

So I was staying with her and we were at some other friend's house.

And I remember my mom called me and she said, we are going

to be transferred to Houston.

He's going to be life-flighted.

So I'm coming home.

If you want to meet me at home, and then we can go to the hospital and then we'd

left my, my sister with our friends.

So it wasn't till three in the morning that he actually got to the hospital.

Yes.

And I, and at that point, thought it was meningitis.

They were treating him for just a regular meningitis, which is, which

is what typically happens, I think.

Yes.

Um,

yeah

So that was Monday night and then Tuesday was when they

actually did further testing and found that he had an amoeba in his brain.

So at that point, um, I think they had kind of told us that this is there's,

there's not much else that they can do.

And...

yeah,

I think throughout Monday night there was still a lot of,

a lot of hope, but then Tuesday was when we realized, so I, I would say

that whole thing was kind of a blur.

Some of, some of it's a little bit blurry in my memory and I, and I don't, I think

this is, I don't know if this is more of a sibling thing or if this is just

me as an individual personality wise, I did not really want to go into the room.

I, it was really hard for me to see him like that.

And as it would be for anyone.

But I didn't spend much time in the actual hospital room.

I spent my time out in the lobby and I, I spent a lot of time talking to his friends

and we had a lot of people come through.

And I think that was the best thing for me at that time was just to, just to really

like to greet the people that came to, to show their support and then, uh, to just.

Also, let them be a comforting presence for me.

And so that I could also be there for my parents.

I do remember something just individually impactful there was a nurse there

that was, I told her that I was in nursing school and I remember her

sitting down and spending so much time.

I mean, and now being a nurse myself, realizing like what

a sacrifice that was for her.

She spent some very individual time with me talking to me about becoming a

nurse, but also just talking me through what I was experiencing in that moment.

That was really impactful for me individually in my, in my

journey of life and in my career.

So he did pass away on Wednesday.

And I remember at that moment, I was like, I can't, what do I do?

I can't, I can't go back to college.

Cause I felt a lot of responsibility for my parents.

I, there was a lot of fear there about what is this gonna do to my parents?

What's it gonna do to them individually?

What's it going to do to them together?

What, what does this look like?

I think that was one of my greatest fears as it was all

happening, you know, is it going to completely destroy them as people?

Like, are they going to be the same parents that I've known?

And then also I was worried about my sister because she was 10 years old.

She was a lot younger than the rest of us.

So how, how does that look for a child to go through this and

how's it going to affect her.

And I think that was one of the hardest things too, because we had to

go home and, and tell her on Tuesday, we had to go home and tell my sister.

And I don't know that she really fully understood what was going

on, uh, before we went and had that conversation with her.

So that sticks out in my mind is the hardest moment in all of it.

I was going to tell my sister.

So she didn't have any idea then, right?

She, no, I don't think she knew how bad it was.

And I don't think we knew how to include her on that.

You were very close in age to Hudson.

Am I correct?

You were a year apart?

Yes, we were a year and a half.

Yep.

So where you really close to Nate, but close to him

also from a relationship standpoint.

Yes.

Yes.

And we had kind of been developing that.

Uh, I had, I had graduated high school two years before in 2014 and I held the,

saved up a bunch of money for us to go and me and him to go travel to France.

And that is one of my, I think that was a real, we kind of developed a

relationship throughout high school because we started, like I said earlier,

we started to really feel like we were in the same life stage at that point.

Oh, once we both were in high school, he was a freshman.

I was a junior.

And then that trip was a really, really impactful trip for our relationship.

And I mean, it gave us so much to talk about over those next two years, we were

always talking about our trip and always talking about the memories that we had.

Cause we spent there, we spent a month there together.

So.....

you went to France together for a month while the two of you.

Yes.

How old were you then?

You were, 9....

I was 18.

18?

And he was 17 Yeah.

You do this by yourself.

Yeah.

So we wish we went and stayed.

So our family hosted exchange students.

And so we had hosted a student from over there and so their family

invited us to come stay with them.

So we went on vacation with them.

We.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, we had, we had a blast . One of our best memories ever

With France.

Was that in the city or a rural area?

Yeah, so we went to Paris.

That's where they live.

So we were there for a couple of weeks and then for two weeks we went

to the North, we went to Brittany and that's where they, uh, they go

for their summer vacations and it's, uh, beach and it was, it was a dream.

So

.... Marshall Adler: that's incredible.

You did this obviously thinking you would have a long life

together as brother and sister.

Yes

Never thinking that.

Thank God you did this as a memory that you'll have forever.

Exactly.

Wow

You know, I assumed we would obviously do more things like that.

It's I mean, yeah.

I think

that's.

You guys.

I was going to say, I was going to say, so you guys really got very

close together then on that trip?

Yes.

Yes.

That was a big bonding bonding moment for us.

Yes.

It's interesting that you mentioned worried about your parents

and about your younger sister, it speaks well of you that you concerned

about your family versus yourself.

But before I ask you about how you're doing with everything four years

out now, how are your parents doing?

How, how is your youngest sister doing with the concerns you had

when he Hudson first passed away?

Yeah, I think it's interesting.

It's so I think it was real, real difficult there for the first two years.

I do think.

There were some, some very marketed changes that I saw in

my parents and my, my sister.

It's so hard for me to tell because she isn't, she's been going through

that kind of middle school stage.

Now she's a freshman in high school and she's also not, she's not one

that talks about her emotions a lot.

Um, so her age combined with her personality, it makes it hard for me to

know exactly what's going on with her.

And she, she will say things, which is interesting.

You just forget what it was like to be a kid.

She'll say, like, I don't even, I don't remember him that well, which I guess

when you're younger, it's, it's different because if I think about somebody that

died when I was 10 years old, it would be a whole different experience than somebody

that died when I was 20 years old.

Right

So that's, that's interesting to me.

I mean, she remembers him, but just in a very different way than I do.

You do talk a lot to your parents and to

your siblings about the loss.

Not, not really, not really.

I was telling Steve this the other day.

It's it's interesting because I don't mind talking about it.

I'll talk to my friends about it.

I'll write about it.

I'll share about it, but it's hardest to talk to my family,

Why is that?

I think, Oh man, that's a good, that's a good question.

I'm trying to pinpoint exactly why I think it's just I'm

scared to bring up that emotion.

Like if I, and again, this is probably a personality thing for me because, you

know, for example, my dad is not afraid of that kind of emotion and delving into it.

I'm a little bit more wary of it and I can almost, if I'm talking to more of

an outside party, I can detach from it detached from the emotional side of it.

If I'm talking to my family, I can't detach from the emotional side of

it because I see their emotion and I it's just too close to, I don't know.

It's, it's, it's more difficult for me.

Have you gone to support groups for yourself, either

with your family or on your own?

I have not I've done some individual counseling, which

has been really helpful for me.

Just to process things with a completely outside third party.

So that's been really helpful for me and just navigating these last few years.

I would, I would recommend that to anyone, but I also found that my, my

friends were a good emotional support.

So we....

were they afraid to bring it up or they actually were

pretty good at talking about it with you because we've noticed some of our

friends, they, they won't bring it up because they're afraid it'll hurt us.

Yes, I think I had, so I had one friend that I actually wasn't

super close with before everything happened and she stepped in, I mean,

she, some people just know what to do, people know what to do, and some

people don't, and I don't really blame my friends that didn't know what to do.

Cause that's just, I'm really honestly, I'm that person that

don't doesn't know what to do still.

It's interesting.

Like I've had this experience and it makes me better, but naturally.

I am that person that kind of doesn't know what to do and doesn't know exactly

how to help someone, which is, it's just a weird, it's been an interesting

discovery that I've found for myself, but I had a friend who just, I mean, she

was every single day she was calling me.

She would come over.

She would help me so I'm fed, I did decide to go back to college that

next semester, that's kind of where.

I didn't know what to do.

I thought maybe I needed to stay home and be that support.

Cause I was always as a kid kind of felt kind of responsible, like I need to,

I need to make sure everybody's okay.

That was just kind of my role in the family.

That was, um, very much a peacemaker be to make sure everybody's at peace.

Everybody's okay.

Everybody's getting along with each other.

So I felt like I needed to do that, but I got some, a lot of outside advice

and they were like, you do need it.

It would probably be best for you to go back to college.

You know and not that it's different for everyone, but just people that knew me

were saying this for you individually, this is probably the best thing.

So anyway, so my friend.

She helped me pack up for college.

Like I didn't, I was like, I can't even like, how do I even begin to do that?

That was the last thing that I could even begin to think about doing.

So she, she helped me with a lot of practical things and she also would call

me every day asking me how I was doing was really, and it was interesting.

Cause like I said, we were, this was not my closest friend.

Before this was, this was someone I just kind of had known and we would meet

up every once in a while, but, but she really, really stepped up as a friend.

And was, was that support that I needed in those first days.

Are you guys close now?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So then we spent a summer together.

We worked together the next summer and now we very much are.

It's interesting.

You mentioned that because.

My son, Matt died by suicide and we're Jewish.

And when somebody passes the Jewish religion, you have

the funeral very quickly.

And my mother passed away two days after my son did.

oh wow

So I lost my mother and my son within 48 hours.

So we had to do two funerals, two eulogies, two obituaries.

It was just unbelievable.

Then my best friend from 50 years in Buffalo, who knew my

mother and my son very well.

He passed away too.

So I had three incredible losses within weeks of each other.

So it was just, yeah, unbelievable.

And we knew for me.

I had to be very vocal.

I'm a lawyer.

I like speaking, I guess I it's my job to speak.

So I talk to the rabbi and I told the rabbi at the funeral that we

want to be very honest and open about Matt's life, but also his passing.

And I found it very helpful.

To talk to people about it.

And for the first two weeks, I couldn't talk to anybody must have had a

hundred emails, voicemails letters, calls couldn't return any of them.

So I couldn't talk standing by for two weeks since then, I'll talk to

everybody and anybody, obviously I'm doing this where anybody

in the world could hear this.

I mean, obviously, so I found it very helpful, but I could

sort of see what you're saying.

That I've been surprised on the upside and surprised on the downside

from people willing to step up and sort of help you on that journey.

And it's, I'm not judging anybody, but it's just not what you expect.

Have you had that same feeling that you've been on the upside and the

downside, just, just surprised?

Yes, yes it is.

And I think I've talked to several it's interesting.

I've come across since, since this happened, I've come

across quite a few people.

My age that have lost siblings, not on purpose, but just incidentally

people I work with or people in college, anyone I've talked to has

said, said very similar things.

You just are surprised who, I mean sometimes comes out of the

woodwork and is just there for you.

And then who you maybe thought was gonna going to be there for you.

And maybe they just have a personality that they don't know what to do.

It's just uncomfortable for them.

And so I've had to learn, okay.

I mean, this is, it just is what it is.

This is who....

Right

Right

who I can rely on that kind of support from and this is who maybe

that's, I'm not going to get that from, but you know, their friendship serves

a different purpose and that's okay.

But...

I wanted to go back and ask.

So you talked about how difficult it is to share with the family, but

you feel open to talking to others?

I think Shelly and I are actually easier talking to others about it

and we are taught because I think for us, we both go to that very,

very painful, emotional part.

And you don't always want to go back there.

Exactly.

Okay.

I was kind of curious.

That's exactly it.

I, if I am to talk, like if I were to really delve into it with

my mom or with my dad or with my siblings, it brings me all the way

back to almost what I felt then.

And you kind of just naturally don't want to feel that again.

I mean, like I said, everyone's different.

I think if, like I said, my dad is much more comfortable with that.

He's much more comfortable with that.

And I think if we were more comfortable with it, he would, he

would be happy to talk to us about it.

But I, it's hard to go back to that place.

I totallly got it.

Yeah.

It's interesting you mentioned that because I've

said this story a few times before, after Matt passed, I was,

I think it was about a year later.

I was in the car waiting to go through a drive-through bank and.

I heard on the radio the funeral for John McCain who died from a Glioblastoma

Brain Tumor and his good friend that gave him his eulogy was Joe Biden.

McCain was a conservative Republican, and Joe Biden was a liberal Democrat

and they were best of friends.

And McCain's specifically asked for Joe Biden.

Because the Glioblastoma Brain Tumor, it's a you know, the

prognosis being a nurse is horrific.

I've had multiple friends of mine die from Glioblastoma Brain

Tumors, just a horrible disease.

And I was in the line.

I just veered off and went over to the parking lot where

I would just turn the car off.

And I knew Biden lost a wife and two children.

And I know this guy knows grief, you know, I'll, I'll just say, I'm, I'm

a Democrat, I'm voting for Biden.

So that's an aside, but totally separate.

And apart from that, this guy knows grief and I've always respected what

he said about it and what he said.

He turned to the McCain family and he said that he said, I promise you, there

will be a day where the tear in the eye will become a smile on the face.

And that really resonated with me and hit me because my son, Matt was really funny.

He was a really funny guy and he made me laugh for the 32

years he was on this planet.

You know, my mother lived to 93.

My father lived to 91.

So I just assume my son was going to live to them is his 90's,

but yeah, I lost two brothers.

I had two brothers pass.

I didn't know either one of them.

They were very young and I didn't know either one, I was just

two year old, one was older.

He was younger than me.

So my parents talked about losing children, so I knew it could happen,

but again, I never thought it would happen to me because I said my parents

lost children where the odds of us losing a child be astronomically

miniscule, which obviously made no sense.

It's either a hundred percent or zero.

You lost a child or you did.

And it was a hundred percent.

We lost our child.

So when it happened, I obviously was so devastated.

And it's something that like last week was the high holidays for the Jewish religion.

It's called Yom Kippur.

And the rabbi they always have a prayer.

It says it's already written who shall live, who shall die for the coming year.

And the rabbit made an interesting comment in his sermon.

He said if five years ago, I told some of you people in the congregation

that have had horrific loss, that this was going to happen to you.

You would have told me I can't go on.

I would never be able to survive that.

And he goes, but you had the loss you have going on and you're survived.

So when it first happens, you don't think you are able to survive.

And then when you realize you have to survive as a tribute

to your lost, loved one.

But it sort of changed for me that I know thinking about Matt.

It can take you to that time where you just feel that we're, they have a loss,

but on the other hand, I like the laughter all the funny stories, all the interesting

things he was doing, all the conversations about philosophy and the origins of the

universe and, and the cosmic meaning of some Beatles song seriously.

I don't want to lose that.

And so it's all sort of bundled up in the same package.

So I'm almost saying I'm flying with paying the price when

you get that wave of grief.

Like it just, you know, Steve, I've talked about this before that.

I guess the time goes on, you can tell me more, probably more than I can

tell you, because you're farther out.

The frequency of the waves become less, but the wave height doesn't

change when you, I get hit with a grievance, but over two years now, it's

like it just happened, but I'm willing to pay that price to sort of get the

good feeling of the laughter and the love and the, um, sense of oneness.

That I still have.

Does this make any sense at all?

I mean, do you do to have that feeling at all?

It makes a lot of sense.

I really, I appreciate that perspective a lot because I think that is, that is a

part that I, with my more natural tendency to avoid going to that place, I do lose

that, that sense of really that sense of just remembering him in a more full way.

Remembering, you know how his sense of humor, remembering the times we

laughed and just having those more clear memories and letting those come

into my mind with that, like you said, it goes together, you really remember

the joy and then you feel the pain because, because the joy was so good.

RIght

So it makes, that makes a lot of sense.

How have you been able to talk to other people that lost siblings?

Because you know, my, my son, David had a real interesting comment.

He lost his brother, just like you did.

And he said that he knows when parents lose a child.

The natural inclination is to give all the sympathy to the parents

and the sibling hopefully will live decades longer than the parents.

And we'll be grieving this loss decades longer than the parents.

And also, you know, he mentioned that he would love to have his children meet.

Is really, he's not married, doesn't have children, but in the future

to meet his really funny brother.

And they're funny, uncle Matt, because he'd be a great uncle,

he'd be loving, he'd be hilarious.

And he'd be a good time uncle to have, and that's never going to happen.

And that is something that I think siblings who lost

siblings would connect with it.

Am I right about that?

Absolutely.

I think the way I've heard it phrase, it's a loss of an entire lifetime.

You just assume that you're going to have an entity know, especially

with the sibling that's as close in age as Hudson was to me, you assume

that you're going to go through these stages of life together and that yeah.

That your kids are gonna know, you know, have him as an uncle and I'm going to

be an aunt to his nieces and nephew.

I mean, to his kids anD uh, yeah.

And to traveling, you know, that's another thing, cause I really did.

I enjoyed traveling with him.

There were a lot of things that we enjoy doing together.

So it it's, it's, it's not something you think about maybe

even less so than, uh, I don't know.

It's, I've never been a parent, so I, I can't speak for parents, but I

would assume that siblings probably think even less of the possibility of

losing their perfectly healthy sibling.

Right.

Do you talk to your parents about that at all?

About the loss of what you expect it to happen, but won't happen

now because of the passing.

I mean, it's, it's like the loss of realized potential, you

know, everybody's got potential.

Some people realize that some people don't and when you have a child

or brother or whatever, you just see, well, this is the potential.

And you want to see how life turns out to see where their potentials resets.

So by life sort of fascinating.

And when you lose somebody, you don't even get to experience that.

Yeah

And as a parent, That is a huge factor for me because I,

again, Steve and I become very close.

We both lost sons.

Jordan was 11 and Matt was 32 and I did see Matt turned into a man.

He lived a full life.

It was just too darn short, where unfortunately, Jordan

didn't have that opportunity.

So, as a parent, I really feel that you talk to your parents about that

at all, about your sense of loss from the standpoint of a sibling

potential that will not be realized.

Yeah, I think, you know, I, I don't know that

I've had any extended co I've.

I think I've mentioned that before to them.

And I do a lot of my processing through writing.

So as you guys know already, and so I do.

I'm an internal processor for sure.

So I do a lot of thinking about that and I have mentioned it to

my parents, maybe not in depth.

Um, but I do a lot of thinking about, I mean, really even imagining him,

like, I don't know, sitting, sitting across from me at the table and us, you

know, what would we be talking about?

What would, what would he be doing now?

What, would he be, would he have a girlfriend and what,

what, what would be happening?

And just because we are, we were in such a similar life stage, I can kind

of imagine what he might've been doing.

And it's just, yeah, that's a, that is a hard thing to cope with.

Just, just to know that that, that was lost.

RIght

And I think I've gone through so many transitions since,

since my brother's death, even over four years, I've graduated college.

I studied abroad in another country and then I have had two different

jobs out of school already.

So I've gone through all these transitions and I can imagine the

transitions he would have gone through and the things he would have done

in the ways he would have changed.

And you know, sometimes I just wish I could just tell them about

what's going on in my life...

RIght, right

or reminisce on our trip or, cause we used to do that.

We used to sit here.

I remember doing it that summer before, uh, before he went off to camp, we

sat and we reminisced for like two hours one night about our, our France

trip, just because it was too muc such a memorable time for both of us.

And we did a lot of, we kind of shared a similar sense of humor, just a lot of

observing people and just kind of, kind of finding the funny little things and

in everyday life, especially when you, when you go to another culture, uh, to

another country and you don't speak the language and kind of navigating through

that makes for a lot of funny memories.

So we,

I bet

yeah.

So you were closer to, uh, Hudson than you were to Benjamin and Noel, right?

So were you two, did you like lean on each other all the time?

How's that been since?

Yeah, I would say maybe I'm close to all my siblings in a different way.

So like there's not one that I, I I'm giving a politically correct answer.

It's not meant to be that, but, but it really, I, I really do feel this way.

Because me and Benjamin were closer when we were younger and now we've gotten

closer again, but for that kind of teenage period where we've got very different

personalities, he likes conflict I don't, you know, those kinds of things.

So it's kind of like a personality clash, but me and Benjamin.

Hudson was always very mellow like me.

So it never was a problem.

But when, when me and Benjamin were younger, we were closer

because we were, we were older, maybe more similar in maturity.

Hudson was kind of a goofy little kid.

And so I guess when we were younger, it was always kinda me and Benjamin

were the older, more mature ones.

And then Hudson was kind of the younger sibling.

And then I would say I'm very, I'm definitely very close with my sister too,

but it's just a different relationship.

It's almost feels a little more sometimes I feel more maternal with her.

Like.

ust because I'm so much older than her.

And I remember her being born and I would take care of her when she was a

baby, you know, just like it's different.

Yeah.

But me and Hudson were more peers.

We were, we were in the same, really in the same stage.

And so I think maybe we related more as far as just life experience and

we related on personality, just how we, how we interact with people.

And we were just both kind of mellow kind of easygoing, like, so that's what I mean.

It's really good travel buddies.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you think you've changed?

Obviously, you know, when you mentioned your parents, I could relate to that

because you know, I've said this multiple times that when you lose a

child, the person that existed before that is just not there anymore.

You can't say, Oh, I lost a child on the same person.

You're not, it's just you, you, you were going to change.

It doesn't mean you can't leave.

Lead a happy, productive, meaningful, significant life, helping people,

helping your loved ones, helping yourself and helping humanity.

And making your life attribute, your lost loved one, but it's different.

So I know how it's different as a parent that loses a child.

How is it different?

You seem like such a nice person and you do seem very mellow and you're,

you know, we just met 45 minutes ago and I always feel like you're a very

easy person to talk to and very open.

So I don't know how you've changed, but if I I'd be interested in how you have

changed since the passing of your brother.

Yeah.

So that's, that's an interesting question.

I have one, one way that I've changed that I very much can identify.

But before I talk about that, it's, it's interesting losing a sibling.

As in, like I was talking about all the transitions I've gone through since like

in such a transitory period of your life when you are already changing and like

having that as a part of our, a big part of already going through changing period,

you know, it's just, it's just an added, an added part of becoming who you're

going to be, but I think the very, very distinct way that I changed, um, I used

to be extremely focused on my academics.

I absolutely must make all A's.

I would just stress myself.

I mean, just really, really stress myself out over that to the point

where I didn't let myself enjoy, uh, it just enjoy life sometimes.

Like I remember my first two years of college before this happened,

it was just like, my focus was just different in general.

My, my view on life, it was like, I need to be successful and I need to

achieve, and I need to, to make all A's and it was kind of the end all be all.

mmhmm

And I don't think that I completely didn't have any other

values in my life, but it's just, that just felt really important.

And I think this, this happening.

I mean, of course I still, still wanted to do well, but I realized

like, who cares if I make a, B you know, like life is to be enjoyed.

RIght

You know, what's, what's the point.

If I'm just, I come home for C and I remember the spring break before

he, you know, I have a lot of regrets about this.He was playing baseball.

And I remember I miss out on him.

I didn't do anything.

I came home and I studied for a week.

I didn't, I didn't even try to spend time with anyone.

I just was like, I need to study and looking back, I, I can tell

you that I did not need to do that, but that I just felt so important.

That was my priority.

And so I think my priorities changed.

My priorities have shifted to, okay.

If something is taking me completely away from being able to enjoy life, being

able to spend quality time with people and being able to go on trips, you know,

like I just got, went on and be out in nature and all those things that really,

you know, I think at the end of your life, You look back on that and you,

you don't regret that, but you do regret maybe the times where you neglected that.

Anyway, I just think all of those things are really I've my focus has

really shifted to being more focused on what are the things that are going

to make my life meaningful versus just what's going to make me look good.

Basically, basically, that was kind of my focus at that point in my life and in high

school too, I was very achievement driven.

So the next two years of college, I actually found, I just enjoyed myself so

much more because I just had a different perspective So and I had just, I was able

to let myself, let go of like, I need to do everything perfectly because I, I guess

I realized that's not what, what matters, like looking back me coming home and

spending the whole spring break studying.

I regret that, I regret doing that instead of just letting myself

enjoy some time with my family and go to my brother's baseball games.

And so....

it's interesting you mentioned that because, you know, as a

lawyer, deferred gratification is sort of in our DNA, you know, there's an old

saying that the law is a jealous mistress.

Like, and I didn't make that up.

It's an old, old, old saying because there's always more work

amd I didn't make that up okay.

But my wife wouldn't like that, but there's always more work to do.

There's always another case to deal with an I've seen lawyers work seven days

a week in the office working at night.

And I decided I went to law school at Duke , Duke law school.

Very intense place, great basketball, but very intense.

I ended up loving it there.

And like you, I sort of reached the point where I said, I'll do the best I

can, but I can't defer gratification, because again, nobody on their death

bed is going to say, boy, I wish I put more hours in the office who cares?

It's irrelevant.

All that money.

It's transitory.

You're not taking it with you.

The most important thing are not things, it's time.

And when you lose a close loved one, you realize we're all here for a short time.

You better make it a good time.

And you know, I've talked this before.

My father lived to 93, he was a, B -24 Bombardier during world war two.

He did 51 missions in the Pacific theater against the Japanese, could

have died , god knows how many times, but he was the happiest guy in the world

because he just was present oriented.

He, whenever he wanted, we went to football games from

Buffalo, big Buffalo bills fans.

I watched.

Bill's game with him, even though it Alzheimer's to the end of his life.

And he loved it.

It was just time to watch the Bills.

Let's watch the game.

Everything else was irrelevant.

Just have fun with the game.

And he knew he was dying from Alzheimer's, but that wouldn't

prevent him from enjoying the game because he was present oriented.

And I think there's a illusion and delusion that you can have saying, Oh,

if I do this, this and this correctly and I'm the best lawyer or best nurse

or whatever, then I can deal with these other things and we'll all be fine.

I can control that.

It'll be no problem.

I'll get to it when I get to it.

You can't, there's no control.

You didn't know you're gonna lose your brother.

I didn't know.

It was my son, Steven knows to lose his son and that's life.

And, and, and, you know, we're talking to people now

throughout the whole world that.

I've probably experienced that and some people might be listening to

this right now that hopefully they'll understand it may not have happened

to them yet, but it could, and it will like we're in the middle of a worldwide

pandemic and preaching the choir here.

You're a nurse, you know this and you talk about unexpected loss and people

not realizing, Oh, I could've should've would've spent more time with this person.

Cause they're gone now.

That's applies to everybody.

So I think the lesson you learned is a great lesson and

some people never learn it.

And it's wonderful that you have learned as a young age because you

got along, hopefully, you know, healthy life, life ahead of you.

And that's a lesson that will be with you for the rest of your life.

But I think it's a really important lesson to take with you.

So I commend you for doing that.

Yes.

So I, I am very thankful to have to have learned that lesson.

Cause I just, I look back on, on how I was before and how kind of miserable I

would make myself over trying to achieve.

And

RIght

I think I could, I could still be like that with my

job, you know, working a lot of overtime or just trying to make

more money or whatever it is, but...

You know my father.

It just was a funny guy.

And I remember on my first year in law school, I just told

my dad, I said, I hate this.

I'm just working 24/7.

And I go, is this what I'm gonna do for the next 60 years?

And he goes, don't work 24/7, do the best you can.

And as long as you don't throw you out, don't worry about it.

And as it turns out, nobody gets thrown out of law school.

If you do any type of work that they ask you to do.

And he said, he goes, you know where you end up with your class ranking, who cares?

It's like I practiced for 40 years.

Nobody asked me, where was my class ranking?

Can I help them with their problem.

With you at the hospital to some patients say, well, what did

you get in biochemistry grade?

hahahaah Right, No,

Nobody cares.

Nobody knows you're there, there to help people.

And I think that's the lesson to learn.

And when you lose a loved one, I think you realize.

You're the most important things in life are not things it's loved ones in time.

Exactly right.

Amen.

So Bethany, your dad sent me a link to a song that you wrote.

mmmhmm

I actually sat right there and watched it three times righ in a

row because the camera is focused on you and Hudson's in the background and

you called the song Friend Like You.

mmhmm

Did you write it about Hudson?

I didn't did i what?

I, I called, I called your dad back to find out.

Cause I said, I was looking at the look on his face and it was

like he realized during the song.

Yeah

And so I wanted to ask.

Yeah, so I actually, I wrote that song about another friend who,

um, has been a lifelong friend for me.

That was kind of what was on my mind when I wrote the song.

But it's really symbolic, especially watching that video now, it really does

truly feel symbolic to me, of me and Hudson's relationship because music was

another thing that we really bonded over.

He played the guitar.

We both played piano, but I played piano more, more so, and

he was more into his guitar.

So that is something that we really bonded over to.

So to watch that video, to hear the words, and where does that really do

describe you know, kind of our friendship as brother and sister and then to

see us doing something we love to do together, it's really, really meaningful.

So I'm, I'm really thankful that that, that got videoed thankful for my dad.

It's a great video

Yeah

It's awesome, but it, it really took me.

I went back and I called your dad and I said, look at, I think it

was like 48 seconds that said, Hudson's looking at Bethany.

And it's like, he's trying to decide if the song is about him.

I never noticed that.

And so I didn't know if that was the case or not, but I think it dawned on

him as you guys were playing together.

Yeah.

Yeah

Because it did fit for the two of you as well.

Yes and he, it was interesting.

I remember that I remember cause he would come and he would try to like, so I would

be playing, but he would be figuring out the chords and everything, uh, while I was

playing and kind of just join right on in.

So that was always, so it was always a lot of fun.

I remembe having lots of, lots of moments like that.

And he had another friend who played at trombone, so....

Oh wow

We would play trombone, piano, and guitar together.

And I remember just, we had, we had some fun times, so yeah.

Music's great.

Like that, it's the universal connection.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just, you know, I think about both Matt.

I was a huge Beatle fan, Matt was a huge Beatles fan.

We have connection there.

He had other musical tastes.

I never heard of couldn't get into.

"Laughs"

Never would like, but we had an intersection our whole lives.

And it's something that you'll have as a memory, which is just wonderful

because I mean, music takes you places.

Emotionally, intellectually it's, it's wonderful like that.

It just transports you.

Absolutely.

Absolutely

Are you still playing music and writing and singing and doing

Well, I haven't been doing as much, uh, writing as I used to do.

Um, but I do, I do like to play the piano a lot still.

I, I played a lot of classical piano in high school and I just

really don't want to lose that.

Cause, cause I just feel like you know, just thinking about like,

okay, what makes my life meaningful?

What, what is going to make, just make for a meaningful life.

And I think, I think of specific things, spending time playing

music is really important for me.

And it, like you said, can really be a connection with other people

being in nature is another thing.

Just being out

Yes, Yes

These are all my best memories revolve around that or

eating together, eating good foods.

Yes

That's another one, you know, so I've been thinking more recently

just about what are the specific things that I want to do more of in my life?

And those, those are three that I can really pinpoint off the top of my head,

but music is one that I, it would be easy for me to lose if I didn't, if I didn't

play enough and I don't play enough, really, but I try to keep up with that.

I'm almost 40 years older than you.

And I agree with everything you said.

Food ,music, and nature

Yeah, hahahahaha

are about three of the most important things in the world.

Seriously?

Yeah.

All these other things, you know the job again, you've got an

important job people depending on you.

I've got an important job people, depending on me, Steve has an

important job, depending on people, depending on him, it's all important.

But it's not the most important aspect of your life.

It is a important part of your life, but you got to realize there are

other things that truly are more important and you gotta put those

on the front burner because the work is always going to be there.

Do the best you can be the best nurse you can help people, but you

want to be eating, having music, and nature in your life, which is

really, really, really important.

Yes, absolutely.

I'd like to commend you for learning 40 years quicker

than me, and what's really important.

HAHAHAAHAH

You are quicker on the uptake than we are.

Oh man

Well, again, I just want to thank you so much for giving

us insight today because for me.

It's.

I was really looking forward to this conversation because you've got a

unique perspective that I don't have,

Yeah

Plus I'll tell you, I'm not trying to be funny here.

You're an excellent guest, you're very well-spoken and you're very intelligent.

You're very open.

You're very insightful, which is a pleasure for me to hear this because

it's just educating me seriously.

You know, I don't want to keep on learning till I take my last breath.

There's a whole world of things I don't know about.

And this is something I want to learn about.

Obviously I lost my son and I want to learn as much as I can, how

siblings are affected by this.

And having your perspective has really enlightened me a lot.

Thank you

So I can't thank you enough for willing to open

up and be such a great guest.

Absolutely.

And yeah thanks again.

Thank you guys for allowing me a platform to be able to talk about, be able to talk

about this and to share because it's....

the pleasure has been all of ours for having you on and

just coming to share, It's a tough

subject and a tough topic to talk about sometimes you had said before that

you would allow us to put your writing reflections about your relationship

with, uh, Hudson on our blog.

Are you okay if we do that,

Absolutely

Because I'd like to tell everybody to go ahead

and check it out on the website.

So I think they're going to enjoy it.

Cause I went through it a couple of times.

It was really well-written.

So we'd like to thank you for coming on today and.

Any, any one last thought that you'd like to share with us before we sign off

One last thought.

No, I think you know that the conversation, it, it took a turn

that I really, really enjoyed.

Just talking about just the meaning of life and kind of what , what

matters most, and that's something I'm really passionate about.

So that's kind of a you know takeaway that I would want people to have.

It's just, you know, time with people, we talked about music,

food, nature, those kinds of things.

Those, those are what matter.

Um, and I really, I really appreciate that our, that our conversation

that we, we got to talk about that is really important to me.

Well, thank you.

It's important to me also

It meant a lot to me

It meant a lot to me

thank you for coming on today.

And we'd like to thank everybody for joining us today on Hope Thru Grief.

Thank you very much, everybody have a good week.

Thank you for joining us on Hope Thru Grief with your cohost

Marshall Adler and Steve Smelski.

We hope our episode today was helpful and informative.

Since we are not medical or mental health professionals, we cannot

and will not provide any medical, psychological, or mental health advice.

Therefore, if you or anyone, you know, requires medical or mental health

treatment, please contact a medical or mental health professional immediately.