Paver projects are a lot of work... but if they are done correctly then they can last hundreds of years with a little maintenance. We give some of the top secrets for taking on those projects from a driveway to a patio or walkway. Then we discuss a little bit about retaining walls and controlling weeks in a healthier way. All this and MORE in this outdoor edition of Around the House Show!

Thanks for listening to Around the house if you want to hear more please subscribe so you get notified of the latest episode as it posts at https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/listen

We love comments and we would love reviews on how this information has helped you on your house! Thanks for listening! For more information about the show head to https://aroundthehouseonline.com/

We have moved the Pro Insider Special on Thursday to its new feed. It will no longer be on this page. You can find it and subscribe right here: https://around-the-house-pro-insider.captivate.fm/

Mentioned in this episode:

A new kind of decking and siding from Millboard

For more information about the latest in decking and cladding head to https://www.millboard.com/

Baldwin Hardware

Baldwin Hardware

[00:00:06] Caroline Blazovsky: Usually anything that's designed to kill something or take something out, can have a consequence, any, you know, we try to burn them out. We try to use the propane, um, you know, the tank with our blower system as we go. But that's dangerous too, because look in your neck of the woods, you can't do it.

[00:00:30] Eric Goranson: So the funniest review that I had that I read on this one, I, where you and I were looking at the product was somebody said, does this have agent orange in it? Like Roundup?

[00:00:45] Intro: come on. When it

[00:00:52] Intro: you covered. This is around

[00:01:03] Eric Goranson: Hey Caroline, how are you

[00:01:10] Eric Goranson: everybody out there.

[00:01:16] Eric Goranson: time to talk hard surfaces outside. Now that we're in a post Memorial day weekend, I can scale. I can call it summertime now,

[00:01:31] Eric Goranson: Uh, for me, I always say like, for me, I always call it the day after Memorial day weekend. I go, oh, that's summertime for me. You know, weather-wise, it's usually July 5th here in the Pacific Northwest. That's when it usually starts getting warm for us, but I call it, Hey, Memorial day weekends over. It's summertime and I

[00:01:53] Caroline Blazovsky: That's my summertime. When I see like kids are home that's that's officially summer. So [00:02:00] we all have our summertime

[00:02:20] Eric Goranson: Do you want to bring an expert in, but I wanted to kind of dive into this a little bit too, even if you're going to go out and hire it done, you know what you're looking for? And there's so much

[00:02:44] Caroline Blazovsky: And then you've got walkways. Sometimes you have retaining walls and decorative, um, that all kind of go under the paver umbrella too. So lots to do. And lots of things. So let's

[00:03:12] Eric Goranson: What's underneath it. It's just like a road. You know, you see them come in and they're putting their they're redoing a road. Maybe that's got. It's really destroyed, you know, like big potholes, that kind of stuff. That pothole is there because the base broke down. Now, many times that bass broke down in the road from heavy trucks, a crack that happened there and the water came through and it compacted or washed it out.

[00:03:47] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, one more talking about base. Like Eric knows a lot more about this, but I've seen it done and I've had it done in my own home too. You're looking at like 12 inches of stone. And I don't know if it can vary in what you use, but I've seen it done where you have.[00:04:00]

[00:04:16] Eric Goranson: depends on the soil that's underneath it, you know, and how much you're doing.

[00:04:40] Eric Goranson: You know, asphalt's not a DIY project. Concrete, unless you know, what you're doing is not a great DIY project, but the base comes down to, it affects all those three things. So you're going to have to do the same prep work, no matter what surface you put over the top of it. But let's talk about first of [00:05:00] why you see failures in, you know, a, a paver type road, paver roads have been around.

[00:05:41] Eric Goranson: That just didn't go well. Right. '

[00:05:55] Eric Goranson: So you think about it. Um, there's multiple reasons for failure. [00:06:00] A lot of it is like, if you have a vertical failure where it's moving around, it's lifting up almost every time.

[00:06:43] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So you get that wavy stuff. You know, the other reason that you can have a vertical failure on a, on a. On a patio like that, is that your base wasn't compacted down below. Well, enough as well, maybe that sub basis compacted. And so the [00:07:00] next one is, is that the next possible failure have, is a horizontal failure.

[00:07:15] Caroline Blazovsky: need your edging to keep it in. So think about it. If you have, usually you have a different type of stone, you know, you've got your paver on your driveway, but then you've got your edging, right.

[00:07:26] Eric Goranson: out of a contract. What metal you don't want to use concrete. You don't want to use asphalt. Those are really bad edging materials. Those are more prone to fail. Then almost every other kind because they crack, they break, they move. So concrete edging on the outside of your paver or asphalt edging is really kind of a poor edging material for a long term.

[00:08:09] Eric Goranson: You want a metal unfinished spike to go down in there because when that metal spike goes in, I want it to rust because it'll compact and tighten up better. So I actually want to see some surface rust eventually happen on that spike for durability. It actually makes a stronger grip into the ground. If there's a little bit of rust on that.

[00:08:52] Eric Goranson: I've

[00:09:00] Eric Goranson: So that's one of the things now, one of the other ones that you see happening is when they get all wonky is that rotational, like the sand got washed away and they start moving around and they start getting wonky that way.

[00:09:46] Intro: should be allowed. Be so hot.[00:10:00]

[00:10:37] Eric Goranson: If I talk to my buddy, uh, Stanley the dirt monkey, he's a big paver guy out of Minneapolis because of winters that. They don't traditionally use it because that sand with the expansion contraction and frost heaving will push the poly Sam sand up and push it up out of that. And now you've got these little spikes sticking [00:11:00] up and worried.

[00:11:04] Caroline Blazovsky: I find that it dislodges itself. So we call, I guess, I dunno, I call it like a polymer sand. Same, same difference. Yeah. So we call it a polymer sand. And what happens is, as you get that expansion and contraction, it'll push up the sand and you see it dislodges itself quite frequently, or you get a lot of growth.

[00:11:44] Eric Goranson: close tight.

[00:11:54] Caroline Blazovsky: And what does the regular, is it just typical sand? Like where would you get that? And I know

[00:12:01] Eric Goranson: Now the cool thing with that is, you know, but here's the challenge zone. This is where the sand debate happens. You also have a hill. It's not like you're dealing at that. So if you have a heavy rain could wash that sand down. So you're going to have kind of a, you know, six in one hand, half a dozen. And the other issue that you could have that sand get displaced with water running down.

[00:12:27] Caroline Blazovsky: know that honestly, the polymer sand really works any different because it seems to be the same issue. If you have a paver driveway or any kind of walkway, that's got some kind of incline and you get water runoff, it takes it with it. You know, it's just the process of nature. It's going to keep running through those grooves and just wiping away all the sand and the polymer.

[00:12:48] Eric Goranson: And that is the one maintenance saying that you've got to be really careful with with these driveways is that you need to make sure that you are replacing that sand when you lose it, because. [00:13:00] Block starts moving around. Now you get sliding papers and you got slide and pavers, and now you're resetting Babers and you're doing repairs.

[00:13:10] Caroline Blazovsky: your F-150 big truck down your driveway, which puts a lot of tonnage on top of those pavers. And guess what you're going to eventually, if you don't have it, push them on top of each other to the sides.

[00:13:27] Eric Goranson: You know, if you're in a freestyle area and it's fairly flat, I probably would just use regular sand in that space. Interesting. Just because that seems to make more sense. That's what I would do now. Let's talk about the base and stuff for setting these in, because here's what happened. You know, this is where shortcuts get taken with homeowners and contractors is it's all about that base.

[00:14:13] Eric Goranson: And you had that problem with the job that you hired out, didn't you where they just weren't doing the pragmatic bunch of

[00:14:28] Caroline Blazovsky: And they'll say, oh, go look at XYZ neighborhood. We did all these wonderful Peever driveways. We'll do yours will be over the moon. They said over the moon with us. And the first thing we noticed, we said, you know, we wanted to do a paper driveway. I'm going like, okay. They were laying the Belgian block with just a thin level of cement.

[00:15:02] Caroline Blazovsky: So they had to get kicked off the property. They had to go.

[00:15:12] Caroline Blazovsky: you, you made the why we did this. Don't ask me why. I think we got sucked in, cause it was a convenience factor, right? They were there. They were doing 12 driveways in the neighborhood.

[00:15:24] Eric Goranson: Ron. Yeah, I always, yeah, I do not do the, if you're knocking on my door, you've just about guaranteed that I am not going to be buying anything from you. Uh, just because most of the other good contractors out there that do this stuff or be. And they've got better marketing techniques and to come around and go, Hey, I was in the neighborhood.

[00:16:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I like the compactor. That's like my favorite, like when they come with the compact, it's called like, is it stamping? They stamp it

[00:16:23] Caroline Blazovsky: a big thick base.

[00:16:29] Eric Goranson: And it's depending on what, what you're using down as the sub-base material, beyond that. So that base now you're going to come in and they call it different things around the country. But what it is is that it's a recycled three-quarter-inch. But it has all the fines and stuff in it as well. That way it can compact.

[00:17:06] Caroline Blazovsky: call it fine gravel, but you know, I'm

[00:17:11] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that the key is that, that you need to have that three-quarter in there to give it some strength to it. So with that, you're going to come in and I want to see that done probably twice. So if you're coming in with another, maybe you're putting six inches of that and I want to see him come in, but three inches in compact, it put another three inches in.

[00:18:01] Eric Goranson: Those are going to be your depth chart for screening. So what they do is a lay those pipes down in the middle of it. They'll come in with the. And then they'll screed that. So they'll take like a two by four or a level or whatever they're using to scrape that off. So you have an even three quarter to one in.

[00:18:52] Intro: Hey guys, you're listening to

[00:18:58] Intro: while you're building it up.[00:19:00]

[00:19:33] Intro: And it looks so

[00:19:51] Eric Goranson: typical three concrete looking and just, or that bright red, and that was it

[00:20:00] Eric Goranson: and then

[00:20:02] Caroline Blazovsky: Now they have like, I mean, I mean, even just. You know, if you're doing steps or you're doing anything, you know, coming up to your porch area, they have the incredible colors. Now we have, like, my driveway happens to be a beige and a tope. And I mean, it's hot looking. It's a sexy driveway you pull in and you see it.

[00:20:36] Eric Goranson: That's cool. That's cool. Well, when we left off going into the last break, we were talking about laying the sand in which is that last bit before you start setting blocks and you don't want to have more than an inch on there of, of . And so I talked about putting down the, you know, a couple of pipes down there.

[00:21:12] Eric Goranson: Now you start laying block. I do not compact the sand. What I do is I wait. To compact after I've got the blocks in to set the blocks. So that way everything sets down and locks in. Now, the one secret to laying block is you don't want to drag it across, right? So you're laying something on a soft surface.

[00:21:56] Eric Goranson: And now you've got a wonky surface. Could you disturb the. [00:22:00] Hmm. So the secret, if you watch the good block layers that are quick, you'll hear the click drop could drop, click drop, and it's the click of them hitting the block next to it and dropping it straight down. So it can land evenly on the sand.

[00:22:45] Eric Goranson: You need to be using. A wet saw to do this with, so there needs to be water. So there's no dust. They, they do make very expensive dustless, dry cutters, but, uh, that's [00:23:00] pretty much for the pro. You're not going to see that at a, uh, at a tool rental store, but even if you've got somebody over there cutting, I don't want to see any dust and you better be wearing that, uh, silica dust respirator.

[00:23:29] Intro: It's

[00:23:38] Caroline Blazovsky: Especially if you're doing a big surface,

[00:23:56] Eric Goranson: It's not dusty until that stuff [00:24:00] dries up. And then you've got a Dusty's thing to deal with, but that's what you want to deal with cutting those. And then you've got to deal with your edging on the outside to lock that in and to keep it from moving. So you got to get all that stuff done. Now once you've got that locked in from the outside, that's when you come back and sweep in the sand

[00:24:20] Eric Goranson: the Palmer then yeah. Whatever. Yeah. That sand polymer. And then you're going to sit there and vibrate it. Now, one thing is if you're using the sand polymer, here's one thing you gotta be careful with. You cannot have any kind of rain before you laid that block down or what. Because here's what happens if you've had like the sprinklers run and it got wet, put the polymer away until the next time, because you are done because as soon as you put that on top of the, of the block, it's dry and right there with the polymer in it.

[00:25:26] Caroline Blazovsky: You think just for comparison, do you think doing a driveway with. Is harder than doing a tile job in your shower. You think what's harder

[00:25:52] Eric Goranson: And if you miss certain steps, you've got a big deal there, but both are both are technically different. [00:26:00]

[00:26:02] Eric Goranson: You know, both are technically difficult. I would say that, you know, if you're off a 16th of an inch on a paver driveway, you don't notice it. But if you're off of 16th of an inch on a piece of tile, it looks like hell.

[00:26:42] Caroline Blazovsky: Blow torch meter. That's what I have for my driveway. It's called blue works. Because listen, even if you do a big base and you think that you've got quite a substantial amount of gravel, you're not going to have wheat. They just come up, they start growing in that polymer or the sand, and they may call them there.

[00:27:01] Eric Goranson: wall. I'll have you still have dirt and dust that gets on there from the cars and from the weather. And then you have all of this that's coming in. That is just. Just the seeds and everything else. It

[00:27:17] Caroline Blazovsky: It's crazy. That grows without any soil, but it'll go right in the, in the crevasse.

[00:27:33] Eric Goranson: That's your walkway? So pretty cool. So, Hey,

[00:27:45] Eric Goranson: Oh, yes. We're going to talk about that. When we come back, let's talk about that. When we come back here, because I found a new product that I didn't know out there when I was working on my house, your last weekend that I was like, oh, it's not rounded.

[00:28:19] Eric Goranson: We'll do that just as soon as around the house returns.[00:29:00]

[00:29:05] Eric Goranson: I'm already command from even numbers down. And you're listening to around the house

[00:29:15] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round, the house show, or we've been talking about all those different things you can do with pavers and patios and, and all of that. And you know, when we were going on.

[00:29:50] Eric Goranson: Right. You know, when you comes down to it. So I love concrete, but like for instance, I have an asphalt drive. It has done great. You know, it's [00:30:00] was put in in 1977, it looks like it's been there the entire time. But the problem I have is I've got these big tree roots. And so I have a very wavy driveway because I have 200, 300 year old trees that the roots are getting bigger and bigger and bigger pushing the driveway up more and more and more,

[00:30:21] Caroline Blazovsky: You know, you may not even get the wave like Eric has, but you know, if you do have trees in the property, eventually get the cracks. And, you know, you do have to seal it. And then every time you seal every year or every other year, then, you know, you just get the same issue that occurs. So I, listen, I had asphalt for years.

[00:30:56] Eric Goranson: But, and so, you know, mine, um, mine, I have to [00:31:00] do some serious. I have one tree that'll have to come out when I redo my driveway, just because one it's not looking great. I think I got to get an arborist out to take a peek at it, but, uh, that's a process to do that, but it's the major offender in pushing up the driveway and stuff out there.

[00:31:18] Caroline Blazovsky: You have some parameters though, like you can't just take down trees. I know, depending on certain areas, you can't just remove a tree and even in certain areas in the Northeast, you know, there's guidelines. So what do you do if it's causing an issue with your driveway?

[00:31:34] Eric Goranson: I would almost have to come in here and if I wanted that tree was going to leave is going to stay there and I can't remove it. I would probably have to come in, raise that surface up. Which isn't great because it's all well, and on top of that, it comes down to my house.

[00:32:12] Eric Goranson: And then I'm going to have to pay the arborist to, to make the argument that it has to come down. And then I have to go talk to the city and say, Hey, it's an emergency. And I mean, it's a process I have to put up. Uh, there'll be notifications that go on the yard that says what treat is. Um, there could be a public hearing on removing the tree.

[00:32:34] Intro: lot of money

[00:32:37] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So anyway, that's just kind of, kind of what it is. So when you and I were talking about, you know, I had to go out and I had some nauseous weeds in the, in the front property of my house and I talked to my garden experts and they're like, well, we really like you to use.

[00:33:09] Caroline Blazovsky: fussy. What the official name?

[00:33:23] Eric Goranson: Product. It's what I would call the, the alternative there's is a much healthier version to use on your, on your ground, around your house.

[00:33:43] Eric Goranson: I liked about it, which was cool as it's, it's rated first off by the OMR I listed for organic use.

[00:34:14] Eric Goranson: Uh, but anyway, that's the active agreement ingredient in it and it works really well for. You know, going through, I'll let you know here, it wilted the plants here that I, that I had to take down that are, that are nauseous weed. We'll see here in another week or two, if they're dad, but you could see within four or five hours that, oh, I sprayed that area, which was pretty quick in the world of knocking down weeds.

[00:34:39] Caroline Blazovsky: alternative. Right. And if you, if you Google weed killer and you can use a vinegar, a detergent solution with the. Um, and you can Google that up and to try that those solutions that are organic tend to have to be applied when it's sunny out so that you're utilizing the sun to activate the ingredients, to strangle the weed.

[00:35:17] Caroline Blazovsky: You know the tank with like our blower system as we go, but that's dangerous too, because look in your neck of the woods, you can't do it. You'll have a fire within like seconds of using it and I've had it happen to me. So if you have really dry conditions, you cannot use it.

[00:35:43] Eric Goranson: Like Roundup and I'm like, wow, no, not have agent orange in it. Geesh, come on. People. They don't

[00:35:55] Eric Goranson: exactly none of this stuff you should be drinking, but this stuff is, is a much safer [00:36:00] alternative. Well, I wanted to talk before we run out of time, I wanted to talk about block walls and stuff, and it's the same kind of thing.

[00:36:28] Caroline Blazovsky: It's and it's gotta be built into your, I have a few landscape walls that are involved with my driveway and then also in the front of the property.

[00:36:51] Caroline Blazovsky: Slide out your. So, if you

[00:37:08] Eric Goranson: Now, many times you need to have drainage put in behind it. Sometimes you need to have, um, you know, a base like you would put for a paver. Sometimes I've seen them require con. Um, beneath it, uh, do your research and see what that block is designed to do and make sure because there's times that those blocks is not the right solution for what you have, or you need to go to a bigger block or you need to go to a stronger block.

[00:37:57] Caroline Blazovsky: you bring up a good point.

[00:38:14] Eric Goranson: And our last minute here, you should never have a gutter draining onto the driveway in any situation. It's a bad idea. It doesn't matter if it's concrete, doesn't matter, especially if it's block or, you know, any kind of a paver or concrete, never have that go in. That gutter system should always go into a storm drain system that goes underground and way out, away from it.

[00:38:58] Caroline Blazovsky: and when the, when the underground system [00:39:00] gets designed, does that go under the stamp?

[00:39:05] Eric Goranson: base, if you have to put in, if you have to put that in, that needs to go below it, it's also a good time to put some. Some conduit or pipes. So you can go underneath that area. If it's a driveway, I hear that music, Caroline, you know what time it is?

[00:39:24] Intro: around the house. .