Episode Summary: In today's episode, Leekei and Olabanji explore the unexpected intersection between music and climate change.

They both agree that music has an essential role in shaping culture and influencing behaviours, making it a potentially powerful tool in the fight against climate change.

Topics discussed include:

• the role of influencers, musicians and singers in shaping public opinion on climate change
• the educational power of songs
• music distribution, digital vs physical
• the environmental impact of tours
• what the future of concerts could be like (the ABBA Voyage Concerts)
• the behavioural influence of arts

MIT discussions on Scientists and musicians tackle climate change together

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Breaking news!

At the time of posting this conversation, on October 10th, we learned that Icelandic singer Björk has teamed with Rosalía, another pop-singer from Spain, to campaign against industrial salmon fish-farming in Iceland.

The song’s title has not been announced, but a 75-second preview has been published online. Björk has announced that all the proceeds from this collaboration will be donated to help fishermen at Seyðisfjörður with their legal fees. In hopes that it can serve as an exemplary case for others.

on youtube help fight fish farming in iceland

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Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang and Olabanji Stephen.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.

Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria. He’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

3

Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

4

Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

5

Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

6

Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

7

Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

8

A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

9

from everywhere in the world.

10

In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

11

can actually do to make a difference.

12

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

13

Hi, I'm Leakey.

14

Hi, I'm Olabanji.

15

Today we're talking about something

that is going to sound a bit unusual.

16

We're talking about

music and climate change.

17

Yes.

18

Yes.

19

What do you think, does music have

anything to do with climate change at all?

20

I think, I would say nothing and

everything, you know, nothing

21

because it's, music it's art, um,

so it's not something that you can

22

touch, it's not something tangible.

23

Maybe you can change the way we

play from distributed music, make

24

it more environmental friendly.

25

But first I would say nothing, but

then I would say no, it has a lot to

26

do with climate change because music

is a way like all forms of art to

27

influence people and change culture.

28

So I think it has a lot

to do with climate change.

29

It could be a powerful tool.

30

Yeah, I absolutely agree with you on that.

31

And I mean, at first, just like

you said, I was like, nah, there's

32

probably no relationship between

music and climate change, but

33

music is very big part of culture.

34

Yes.

35

And influences the way people behave

very, very much so that You know, for

36

example, you could find people that

are very much influenced by a genre

37

of music dressing in a type of way.

38

They could dress some way,

for example, hip hop music.

39

If you see someone dress a type

of way, you might predict with

40

a great level of accuracy that

this person listens to hip hop.

41

Because they the exact way

they see the hip hop artists

42

dressing in the music videos.

43

There was this dressing some,

some years back, I think they

44

called it 50 cent or something.

45

It was just some baggy jean,

tight t shirts and a scarf.

46

And people wore that to identify

with that genre of music and

47

sometimes even an artist.

48

So looking at it in that light,

I think you're very correct.

49

Like music.

50

That ability of music can be

used to communicate, to convey

51

messages and to influence behavior.

52

Yeah.

53

I think that, I mean, we're talking about

music and music is very broad, but if

54

we talk about singers in groups, um,

pop singers or rap singers, all kinds

55

of singers, they can become an icon.

56

And an influencer, and they have a

very, very big role to play when they

57

become an influencer on how people

behave, there is this big discussion.

58

And I'm sure that you have heard about

it, that soccer players, they're not

59

musicians, but they're soccer players.

60

They could play a very big

role in influencing how the

61

youth perceive climate change.

62

Because they have such a strong

influence on people, on the youth.

63

And, uh, so that's why there's

a lot of criticism on, you know,

64

how some soccer players take a

private jet to, on the and all that.

65

They could do it, but it's not because

they can do it that they should do

66

it because they have a role to play

to, , uh, to show a good example

67

on what is responsible or not.

68

Yeah.

69

That, that is very, that's very care.

70

Remember on one episode

of, , this podcast, we talked

71

about Leonardo DiCaprio.

72

And a lot of the efforts that he

was making to convey messages to

73

the public about climate change.

74

I went to his page and I even learned a

couple of things about whales and things.

75

And you know, if Leo is posting

it, then millions of people are

76

accessing it and they're reading it

and they're learning more about it

77

and they're becoming more conscious.

78

And so he's using this platform and the

access that he has to, you know, propagate

79

the idea And that's also true in music.

80

I think I read an article, I think

it was by MIT, and they said that

81

music has been shown to encourage

altruism, some sort of selflessness.

82

You would even go to YouTube

sometimes, and the videos there are

83

fundraisers for specific causes.

84

So.

85

I remember John Legend in one

of his videos during COVID gave

86

out all the revenue from that

particular video on YouTube.

87

You'd actually see it right there.

88

It's a fundraiser.

89

There's a tag on the video that shows

fundraiser that all the funds coming

90

from that video is going to specific

causes, usually nonprofit, and that

91

could also be way of empowering

or advocating for climate causes.

92

One thing I find particularly

interesting is that in addition to

93

The artist being an icon and being

someone with influence, they could

94

even do that through the music as well.

95

In the lyrics of the songs.

96

Yeah, in the lyrics of the songs, and

that'll be directly communicating.

97

You know, when, when I was

younger, I would learn rap

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songs from beginning to the end.

99

I would just know those songs,

would listen to them over and

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over and over and over again.

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We enjoyed them.

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And you know, it's, it's such a

great opportunity to sleep in some

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of these things because music is

known to affect behavior in somewhat

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an unprecedented way, right?

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Music makes you feel things.

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You would feel certain types of way

from listening to certain type of songs.

107

So sleeping in lyrics about maybe

statistics or something about climate

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change could be very, very helpful.

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Especially to people that do not

consider it as something at all,

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and even people that consider

it as something would spot it.

111

Funny enough, I think this was at a

stadium, they were doing a survey,

112

and they found out that 90 percent of

the people present there knew about

113

climate change and were at a level

knowledgeable about climate change.

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And at this rate, it's not just about

knowing because it's like, well,

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the message is actually starting

to get across a lot, probably more

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ways to trigger people and make them

feel responsible for the ecosystem.

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And so yeah, lyrics in there, like

you said, can be very helpful.

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I can just imagine how Jay Z

would put a line about climate

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change because he's so poetic.

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If he slips in that line, it's going to

be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is great.

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And there's a whole audience

waiting for that kind of stuff.

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But maybe he doesn't care.

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Yeah.

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Maybe he doesn't.

125

Yeah.

126

But talking about, you know, the

lyrics, I just remember, when you

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want to teach a kid to do something.

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There's a lot of songs to teach.

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Kids do things, you know, how to

brush teeth or how to, you know, how

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to, I don't know how to, to play.

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everything is like a single

long song to teach kids.

132

Yeah.

133

I think, songs and, and, um,

and music is very powerful.

134

And actually when you suggested

this, uh, this topic, I, of course I

135

Googled and um, and I googled, okay,

music and climate change in French.

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And then I realized that I was listening

to a lot of singers, French singers, who

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have released songs about climate change

in the 90s, because in the 90s, I used

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to listen to rap music, \ , and those

are French rappers, and I don't listen,

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I don't listen so much to rap music

anymore, so I don't know what rap music

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is about today, but when I was When I was

younger in the 90s, actually, when I was

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young in the 90s, um, and I was listening

to rap music, I realized that there

142

are a lot of singers that are rapping

about environment and climate change.

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And, um, and I didn't realize that,

I mean, I know all the songs and,

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uh, but I didn't know that it was, I

mean, I know that they were talking

145

about the environment, , but, um,

it was more about the ozone layer

146

and biodiversity and all that.

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But, um, you know, it was just normal.

148

Yeah.

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I don't know how it is today.

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Well, I certainly hope that more musicians

would actually consider doing that as

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well because it'll be very helpful.

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That is one way that we can get

the system to Well, I wouldn't

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say change, but that is one way we

can greatly influence the system.

154

You were talking about kids and how they

learn to do a lot of things by singing.

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\ and one of the reasons that kids learn

things, you know, by learning the

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songs and sort of practicing what's

in the song is because it's easy.

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They remember those things

faster, it's more fun.

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And so it's like, A, B, C, D, E, F, G,

and, and then they keep going and going.

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And, you know, they learn to tidy their

shoelaces, they learn to dress up, they

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learn to do all sorts of things and

knowledge at that age hardly goes away.

161

So it's one of the great ways that, that

kids, that we can indoctrinate kids.

162

Well, I wouldn't say indoctrinate,

but, you Plant a sense of awareness.

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Yeah, we can teach kids to be

conscious of the environment.

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Don't do this here.

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Don't do that here.

166

If you are here, do this.

167

Like there's a ton of beautiful songs that

can be written and taught in schools to,

168

to get these kids to be more conscious.

169

Yeah.

170

And so I, I think that whilst it looks

like there's absolutely no connection

171

between music and climate change.

172

There's a whole lot.

173

Here's a funny thing.

174

About 90 percent of, and I read this

name in an MIT article, about 90 percent

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of MIT students are also musicians.

176

Oh, really?

177

That's a lot.

178

\ , that's a huge proportion.

179

That's virtually everybody at MIT.

180

Wow.

181

Well, I would assume that what

they mean is that everyone can

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either play a musical instrument or

sing, but this article is by MIT.

183

And they say 90 percent of their

students are also musicians.

184

That's very interesting.

185

Yeah.

186

And what about playing music

and distributing music?

187

Well, okay, we can start with the elephant

in the room, which would be the tours.

188

Yes.

189

Right.

190

So.

191

The artist releases an album and he's on

tour for another year, like a whole year.

192

Yes.

193

And traveling with the crew and,

and equipment and everything.

194

And everything and, and gathering

crowds in different places.

195

So well, that's, that's

one guy right there.

196

I wouldn't say that that's a

huge contributing factor to

197

the global climate crisis, but.

198

Right.

199

But it's definitely something

the other part, like you said,

200

I don't know if there's much as

far as distribution is concerned.

201

Oh, distribution, it used to be physical

thing, you know, CDs and, uh, and LPs.

202

And today, even though we're going back to

LPs, but today it's, um, I think I don't

203

know a lot of people buy CDs anymore.

204

Yeah.

205

People don't buy CDs generally anymore.

206

Yeah.

207

So that's less physical stuff.

208

Yeah, and I, is that

better for the climate?

209

Um, I would assume so, but I don't

know what, the carbon emission

210

from the streaming services.

211

Yeah.

212

Like the servers and the rest of them,

because I know once we talked about, about

213

cryptocurrency and how much that is such a

huge thing with emissions, but I wouldn't.

214

I don't know about servers and how the

streaming part is done, but I would

215

also assume that it's actually better

than, than traveling to the store to

216

buy a CD or, or any of all that stuff.

217

I think a good rule of thumb would be to

download the song or the piece of music

218

on your device and then listen to it.

219

That way it doesn't have

to go through the network.

220

I just assume this, this

could be a rule of thumb.

221

Yeah.

222

Yeah.

223

And I guess that that should pretty much

just work for all your favorite songs.

224

So download them, the ones you

listen to the most so that you don't

225

have to keep going back for them.

226

And that way you don't place a

demand on the server to provide

227

the music for you all the time.

228

Yeah.

229

But I would like just to go back to

the tour and, um, and I know, I mean,

230

You say that, , it might not be a huge

contributor to climate change, but

231

yeah, in that realm, everything counts.

232

And so there are some bands that have

been doing some very interesting stuff.

233

Like I don't know if you

are familiar with Coldplay.

234

Yeah, I know Coldplay.

235

I don't know if they're still on the

world tour, but um, last year they

236

were touring the world and on the

website you can see a lot of funny

237

initiatives to ensure sustainability.

238

Of the tour, like there was like

the dance floor where you can dance

239

and then the energy from the dance

floor is reused to power part of the,

240

of the stage or the entire show of

the stage or something like that.

241

Yeah.

242

Wow.

243

So I find it quite funny.

244

You know, to make people dance and.

245

Then it generates energy , and

then use that to power the stage

246

or the song or the performance.

247

If you go to on the website, there's a

lot of initiatives about sustainability

248

and how they are trying to improve things

, and try to reduce the carbon footprint.

249

Wow, that's definitely commendable.

250

That's beautiful.

251

That's worthy of emulation.

252

If they're doing that,

I think that's great.

253

So people dance and then the stage

is powered or some lights are

254

powered or something is powered and

reduces reliance on, on fossil fuel.

255

Yeah.

256

, and also another initiative that I find

quite interesting and I don't know how it

257

will evolve in the future, but last year,

and actually I think it's still going on.

258

I went to, um, an ABBA concert in London.

259

I mean, I live in Paris, so I

just have to take the train to

260

go to London and, and see ABBA.

261

And I don't know if you, you know ABBA.

262

It's a, it's a Swedish group that was

really popular in, uh, 40 years ago.

263

They split about 40 years ago,

my parents used to listen to

264

ABBA, so I'm a big fan of ABBA.

265

And when I found out about

the concert in London, I.

266

Bought my tickets, but the way they're

doing it is that you're doing it

267

like with some sort of um They, they

call it ABBAtars, like ABBAtars.

268

And basically, it's a

concert of holograms.

269

Wow.

270

But it was really,

really, really well made.

271

They have planned , to hold this

concert for half a year, but the

272

thing is, it's still going on

because it's so, so well made.

273

You really feel that you are

seeing the real ABBA, ABBA members

274

performing in front of you.

275

But they're not there.

276

They're not there.

277

It's like they're

holograms playing on stage.

278

That is so super cool.

279

Yeah, it was really cool.

280

And it's really cool that

you are singing on stage.

281

And I was thinking, wow,

this could be the future.

282

The future could be you don't

have to go to a concert.

283

If you have this kind of equipment,

you just like in your living room

284

and have this device or you can

even have a headset so you don't

285

even have to bother your neighbors.

286

Yes.

287

You have the headset and you have

the, um, the, uh, what do you call it?

288

The, um, the Google mask, the,

the, the, the thing for the vision.

289

, I think this is the future.

290

I don't know.

291

Definitely sounds like it.

292

Definitely sounds like it.

293

It's super cool.

294

That way people don't have to move and

travel miles to, to get to contact.

295

Yeah, I don't know if the idea of

this ABBA concert is to replicate

296

this concept in other cities.

297

So far, it's only in London,

but you can just imagine, you

298

know, they can be everywhere.

299

Even if we're not talking about that

advanced technology in your living

300

room, but it could be, oh, they

could be performing in London and

301

at the same time in, um, in Lagos.

302

Or, and, um, and somewhere in,

um, in Tokyo, in other cities.

303

And so the crew doesn't have to travel.

304

To travel.

305

Yeah.

306

Makes total sense.

307

And people don't have to travel as well.

308

You can be where you

are and enjoy concerts.

309

And have fun.

310

Yes.

311

I mean, the trade off would be

the human to human interaction

312

and dancing with people.

313

I guess that's part of

the fun of the concert.

314

Oh, yes.

315

Dancing with people.

316

, that's a big part.

317

Yeah.

318

Yeah.

319

But, well, we can do it 50 50

if, if this takes away half of.

320

The emissions, it's okay to do that.

321

If I were to go to a concert,

to two concerts, probably

322

do one virtual and one live.

323

And if everyone just did that,

it'll have some impact, I guess.

324

Yes.

325

Yeah.

326

And real life events are good as well.

327

Yeah.

328

It's been super cool talking

about music and climate change.

329

Music and environment.

330

And the environment.

331

Yeah.

332

Music and the environment.

333

Yeah.

334

Yeah.

335

Yeah.

336

And I hope this brings a

level of consciousness , to

337

what's actually possible.

338

And before we say that, is there

anything I can do about it?

339

There's definitely stuff you can do,

especially if you are into some form of

340

art that is able to influence behavior.

341

We're probably not even

thinking of many of them.

342

There's music, there's probably

many, many other ways that.

343

Behavior can be influenced or

we can help make it easier for

344

the message to be passed or for

people to remember or take action.

345

Yeah.

346

So, I know what I'm going to do now.

347

The first thing I'm going to do is to

create playlists of, um, songs that

348

talk about climate and environment.

349

That's something I can do right away.

350

Yeah.

351

Yeah.

352

Yeah.

353

And and enjoy listening to them.

354

Yes.

355

Share it and spread the message.

356

Yeah.

357

And I think another beautiful way is

there's the communicating it, which is

358

explicitly talking about the environment

in the music, there's also conveying it.

359

So communicating is

talking about it directly.

360

Conveying it is implying it, even though

you're not necessarily saying that.

361

This is a statistic or that's another

things like you can talk about an

362

experience where you cared and infuse that

into the music and people feel like, Oh.

363

I can care too, you know, yeah,

yeah, it's just, you know, the song

364

that just come to mind is the, you

know, this Louis Armstrong song.

365

What a beautiful world.

366

And I do, I'm not going to sing because

I'm a poor, very, very poor singer,

367

I'm sure that you know this song.

368

What a beautiful world.

369

What a wonderful world.

370

Um, when you I see skies

of blue or something.

371

What do you mean?

372

Try to sing it in English.

373

Yes.

374

Yes.

375

It's a celebration of the

world that we need to protect.

376

So, see?

377

This song is definitely a celebration

of the world that we need to protect.

378

Yeah.

379

Are you going to play that?

380

Absolutely.

381

Absolutely.

382

Absolutely.

383

Absolutely.

384

Okay, maybe we can sing along together.

385

No, I'm, I'm, I'm a horrible singer.

386

I'm a horrible singer

as well, but I'll try.

387

Icy skies of blue and clouds of white.

388

Oh no, no.

389

Abort, abort mission.

390

Okay.

391

I think we should end this then.

392

Yeah, we should, we

should probably end it.

393

And maybe before we go, another song

that also might is we are the world

394

by Michael Jackson and the rest.

395

Oh yeah.

396

The other guys there.

397

Yeah.

398

You see you're not such a bad song.

399

Okay.

400

That's a great song, but we're pausing it.

401

talk to you next week.

402

So I'll see you next

403

hate, this is leaky.

404

Just some last minute news.

405

As I'm posting this conversation.

406

And today it's October 10th.

407

2023.

408

I've just read that Bjork.

409

York, you know, the singer from Iceland.

410

She has teamed up was.

411

Yeah.

412

Another pop singer from Spain.

413

And they are collaborating on the

song to campaign against industrial

414

salmon farming in Iceland.

415

Yes, you heard it.

416

industrial fish farming in Iceland.

417

This is quite alarming and very

sad because Iceland is a place

418

with some of the most breathtaking

wanders you can imagine.

419

The title of this song has not been

announced yet, but you can see a preview

420

on Bjork, social media platforms.

421

So we'll link that in the show notes.

422

Yolk has announced that all the proceeds

from this song will be donated to

423

help fishermen We have the legal fees.

424

at.

425

Does this.

426

The name of the field.

427

And Iceland.

428

And I just wanted to share that with you

to complete this conversation with all.

429

The banshee.

430

And as we discussed.

431

Music can be a powerful

vehicle to create change.

432

week.

433

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Sessions, a podcast with carbon

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435

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