In this episode of The Yappy Hour, host Nathan Dunleavy is joined by Sue Williamson, a consent-based groomer and behaviourist. Sue shares her journey from the corporate world to becoming a grooming advocate, focusing on stress-free, dog-centric grooming practices.

Learn how to decode calming signals, prevent matting, and use tools that enhance comfort for sensitive pups. Discover the impact of grooming on a dog's emotional and physical well-being, and how pet parents can support positive grooming experiences at home. Tune in to find out how to transform a typically stressful grooming session into a calm and enriching experience for your dog.

Find local and ethical dog trainers, dog behaviourists, dog walkers, groomers, dog pros and pet businesses near you.  Yappily is the UK directory built to help you find trusted pet care professionals you can feel good about working with.

📍 Search verified and trusted listings on Yappily

Welcome back to The Yappy Hour, powered

by Yappy, the podcast where we chat

2

all things dogs with expert guests.

3

We'll talk and absolutely no fluff.

4

Wow, maybe a little bit of dog hair.

5

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

today I'm absolutely thrilled to be

6

joined by Sue Williamson, an expert

consent based groomer behaviourist, and

7

the founder of Happy Pause with Sue.

8

Now grooming isn't just about making

our dogs look pretty for Instagram,

9

it's a fundamental part of their health,

happiness and overall well being.

10

But for some dogs, and let's

be honest, some pet parents, a

11

trip to the groomer can feel as

stressful as a dentist appointment.

12

That's where Sue comes in.

13

She takes a different approach, one that

considers the whole dog their emotional

14

state and their individual needs.

15

So if your dog hides under the sofa

at the mere sight of a brush, or you

16

just want to understand how grooming

can be a positive and enriching

17

experience, you are in the right place.

18

So grab a cup of tea, settle in,

and let's dive into the world

19

of consent based agreement.

20

With C.

21

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome back to the Yappy

22

Hour, powered by Yappily.

23

I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,

and I'm so excited to bring

24

you another episode today.

25

Even more excited that we

have Sue Williamson with

26

us, who's our first groomer.

27

So expect a jam packed episode, because

I've got lots of questions for the

28

lovely Sue, and I'm so excited to

hear all about Sue and her journey.

29

So without further ado, Sue,

welcome to the Yappy Hour.

30

Let's get started with your journey.

31

What led you into the world

of grooming and what made you

32

take the consent based route?

33

Sue: Okay, so when I was four years

old, going back thousands of years, my,

34

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: way.

35

I've

36

Sue: I was four years old, my

auntie gave me a toy poodle,

37

black toy poodle called Tina.

38

And yeah,

39

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: poodles.

40

So you've literally just made me, wow.

41

Literally light up straight away,

but we'll come back to that anyway.

42

Sue: yeah,

43

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Carry on.

44

Sue: that's okay.

45

And just having this dog,

we did everything together.

46

And even back then I was doing like

training of tricks, but I also always.

47

Use food for her.

48

It's a trainer.

49

Not because I'd ever read

anywhere that we should do it.

50

Just felt she works food so I

use food and My aunt, the aunt

51

that had given me the dog.

52

She was a dog groomer She was a

poodle, but she specialized in poodles.

53

So it just made me It just made

me want to become a groomer, but

54

I was told it wasn't a proper job,

55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

56

Sue: and

57

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

58

Sue: I went down the administration

route instead, so I worked at various

59

places, had a break when I had my

children, and then went back later on.

60

And then about 10 years ago, I

was diagnosed with breast cancer.

61

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, my goodness.

62

Right.

63

Okay.

64

Sue: And I took about four

months off work to have surgery

65

and radiotherapy and treatment.

66

And when I went back, I just

couldn't get back into work.

67

I was, I was in a management

position and it was, losing four

68

months worth of work was not good.

69

My staff, my staff was trying to keep up

my, doing my work as well as their own.

70

I'd lost a member of staff while I'd

gone and it was just too stressful.

71

So I decided.

72

I decided one day after about six

months of being back at work, I

73

just handed my notice in one day,

I just can't hack this anymore.

74

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: had

75

Sue: No job to go to.

76

That'd be scary.

77

Yeah.

78

Yeah.

79

Very, I'm very risk averse usually.

80

So it was completely not like me.

81

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Takes a life changing illness for

82

Sue: Absolutely.

83

Yes.

84

So I had to think of what I could do

and I'd already started training to

85

be a talent and teach practitioner.

86

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Did Yes.

87

Sue: I love dogs.

88

I've got one of my own and

I thought, you know what?

89

I'm going to go, I'm going

to do the dog grooming.

90

You know, so I booked the training

course immediately with Francine

91

Bennett at LA's Bar and Groom,

92

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

93

Sue: and I finished work on the

Friday and started on the Monday.

94

Absolutely loved it, absolutely loved

working with the dogs, despite the

95

fact that they were The first dog

I bathed was the German Shepherd,

96

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

97

Sue: that absolutely, that

absolutely drenched me.

98

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I bet.

99

Sue: I was absolutely wet through.

100

Fortunately, I kept a spare pair of,

a spare set of clothes in the car

101

so I was able to get changed and not

have to sit all day in a wet outfit.

102

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Bless you.

103

Sue: And I did, I did a 60 day

training course to groom and

104

whilst I was doing that I was

still doing my T touch training.

105

And also learnt, whilst I was doing my

T touch training, it included quite a

106

lot of dog behaviour and body language.

107

So grooming, what I refer to as the

traditional way, just didn't fit with

108

the T touch way of handling dogs.

109

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's right.

110

Sue: So I decided that when I finished my

training I was going to open my own salon.

111

And I was going to take a more

consent based approach, you

112

know, a more dog driven approach.

113

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

114

Sue: So, that's really how I decided to

follow a more consent based approach,

115

just because I think if I had not been

a T Touch, training to be a T Touch

116

practitioner, I might not have gone down

this road, but because I knew the dogs

117

Signs that they were getting stressed

and the impact it was having on them.

118

I just couldn't not go down

that route because it was just

119

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: wow.

120

Sue: the way that we're taught to

groom was just counterintuitive

121

to how I knew dogs coat better.

122

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

123

Sue: So that's, that's

why I went down that road.

124

And I, I don't regret

leaving my job for a minute.

125

Absolutely love,

126

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I bet.

127

Sue: love working with dogs.

128

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Looks like

129

Sue: my

130

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: got one.

131

Sue: dog is crashing it.

132

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, don't make a, don't make

133

don't please, apologies.

134

Normally I've got a poodle sat on my lap.

135

So it's only just that cause

he's got separation anxiety.

136

Sue: bless him.

137

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

so it's only at my husband's

138

home that they're downstairs.

139

So, so, oh my God, what

an amazing journey.

140

Already some similarities

between us anyway.

141

And I.

142

I really wish that I like reached out

to you soon because I've got so much

143

I want to ask you because I've got a

keen interest in grooming and I want,

144

I'm going to chat to you offline about

grooming anyway because I don't want to

145

take up too much of the episode for our

listeners, but so many similarities.

146

I've got four toy, toy poodles myself.

147

One of them's got S A.

148

My husband beat cancer about 10 years

149

Sue: Oh

150

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and my mother in law had breast

151

cancer a couple of years ago.

152

So I totally get obviously, you know what

you've been going through in that respect.

153

You know, so it does take

like a life changing.

154

Things for you to put life into

perspective and make you realize

155

that you don't want to go back to the

stress of like a Management job and

156

Sue: yeah,

157

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: an

office I should have said at the start

158

I do apologize to as well our listeners

so you are a consent based groomer and

159

we're going to delve into that a little

bit more and you kind of Refer to yourself

160

as like a grooming behaviourist as

161

Sue: yeah, yeah.

162

Tony was

163

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

t touch because we've got a

164

little reveal for our Lessons.

165

We do have Tony Shalbon us soon.

166

Sue: The first person I went on

a one day workshop with Tony and

167

she, she was so good and it was

after that one day workshop that I

168

thought I need to do more of this.

169

So it was Tony that got me instituted.

170

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Ah,

171

Sue: So

172

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: pleased.

173

So Tony's coming on at

the end of next month.

174

So to talk all about

TTouch and, and stuff.

175

So I'm glad you mentioned that.

176

And obviously, yeah, you do know Tony.

177

I did when I first started in my dog

training journey, I don't know what

178

made me book on, but I actually booked

a workshop weekend with Alex Wilson.

179

Sue: oh yeah.

180

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: on

behalf of the dog training college,

181

so he'd put on a T touch like workshop

weekend and I took my toy poodle, the one

182

that I had at the time and I just found

the whole T touch method fascinating.

183

So I love that you bring that

into like, you know, the grooming

184

side and, and stuff as well.

185

So that's, that's brilliant.

186

So most people think of grooming

as just a trim and a bath, but

187

how does your approach differ?

188

Hmm.

189

Sue: So my, the majority of dogs I

groom now have been referred to me from

190

other groomers, either other groomers

that have found that they can't groom

191

them because they're too anxious, too

aggressive, or they've been referred to by

192

behaviourists or trainers, or the, the All

the guardians, pet parents you call them,

193

don't you, have decided that they want

a consent based approach to grooming and

194

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

195

Sue: the only sort of

approach I'll use now.

196

Sorry, I forgot what the question was.

197

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

198

Sue: Oh yeah, about being about a So yeah,

so, there is so much more to, to grooming

199

than just a trim and a bath as you say.

200

Dog behaviour, how dogs behave

during the groom, is massive.

201

If you've got a dog on the table

that's scared of the clippers or

202

scared of the, your scissors, There's

no way you can trim or clip that dog.

203

So you've got to take a

behaviour led approach to

204

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

205

Sue: grooms condition, desensitize,

206

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

207

Sue: train.

208

I don't like to say train them to enjoy

grooming because I don't want to train

209

them to sit there and tolerate grooming.

210

I really want them to be.

211

comfortable with it, because I can, you

know, I can't easily just train them.

212

They've got to sit there and

they're not allowed to move.

213

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

214

Sue: But I don't think that

we should be doing that.

215

It's one of those, just because

we can, doesn't mean we should.

216

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

217

Sue: I'd much rather do use positive

reinforcement techniques and counter

218

conditioning to teach them that grooming

is not scary and it's not something

219

they've got to sit there and tolerate.

220

So I mean, I must admit,

there's quite a few of my dogs.

221

My canine clients, I don't

bath, either the pet parents

222

bathed them the day before.

223

And I've got a few, I've got a

few that still cannot be bathed

224

at all, even by the parents.

225

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

226

Mm.

227

Sue: so I know it's frowned upon to use

your scissors and blades on a dirty dog.

228

But at the end of the day, it

doesn't really matter for me

229

because my son's a blade sharpener.

230

So I just.

231

Give my blades to him afterwards.

232

I do keep my older blades for

those, and scissors for those,

233

for scissoring and flipping dogs

that have not been bathed first.

234

But yeah, my son's a

sharpness, so I don't have to

235

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

236

Sue: worry about that.

237

So,

238

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

239

Oh, but even better to have someone

in the family that can do it for you.

240

Sue: absolutely,

241

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and it would be the worst thing with

242

a nervous or anxious or sensitive.

243

dog, you know, to make the, it's

quite a stressful experience going

244

to the groomers anyway, like the

245

Sue: absolutely.

246

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So

the worst thing would be to do is to

247

make that experience more stressful.

248

So you want to make them feel

comfortable and, and, you know, as,

249

as relaxed as it can, because it

must be quite a scary thing for them.

250

Sue: I'm, I'm convinced it is, you know,

it's, as somebody that has suffered from

251

panic attacks in the future about, in the

past, about the smallest little things,

252

I can understand how they feel, even when

it's, I mean, we, we know as groomers,

253

what we're doing is, is safe, you know,

the dogs are safe with us, but it doesn't

254

matter to the dog if they perceive

it as being scary, it doesn't matter.

255

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm,

256

Sue: You know, what we're trying to do,

if they still perceive that, that task

257

as being scary, they're going to react

in the same way as if it's a real threat,

258

rather than just a perceived threat.

259

So

260

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

261

Sue: I think that's what we've got to

start understanding a little bit more in

262

the grooming industry, that a dog will

react the same way, irrelevant of whether

263

it's a real threat or a perceived threat.

264

The same as we do, really, isn't it?

265

You know, there's There's lots of things

we're scold of that's completely, you

266

know, it's only a perceived threat.

267

It's not a real threat, but we, our

nervous system acts the same way.

268

So,

269

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

or flight sort of,

270

Sue: absolutely.

271

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

way of, way of dealing with it.

272

Yeah, and I totally relate

to what you're saying.

273

I, I suffer really badly

with severe anxiety.

274

So, you know, you know, for a dog to

be, you know, put in that situation.

275

Sue: And it's not like

you can talk to them.

276

Like, you know, if you, if I was

with you and you were having an

277

anxiety attack, I can talk to you and

278

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: exactly.

279

Sue: you feel better.

280

You can understand what I'm saying, but I

don't quite understand what we're saying.

281

So,

282

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

no, no, it's all about just making

283

them as comfortable and, you know,

as relaxed and safe as possible.

284

I love, I love the approach and I've been

so looking forward to talking to you.

285

There's

286

Sue: God bless you.

287

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

much to speak about.

288

So.

289

Consent based grooming is still

a fairly, sort of, niche concept.

290

Sue: is, yeah.

291

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you, do you face any resistance

292

or, or did you face any resistance

or scepticism when you started?

293

Sue: Yeah, and I still, we'd

still do to a certain extent.

294

It's a lot of groomers consider

us a bit airy fairy, you

295

know, a bit of snooze like.

296

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

like dub trainers, you know,

297

Sue: yeah, you know.

298

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

reinforcement dub trainers.

299

Sue: I really think there's

some of the resistance is that,

300

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

301

Sue: some groomers feel that we're saying,

Oh, you're, you're cruel to the dogs.

302

You're, you know, you're,

you're being harsh handling.

303

And it's not that at all.

304

It's, it goes back to the dog

thing, you know, being scared.

305

Irrelevant of whether it's a scare.

306

We think it's a scary thing or not.

307

And in groomers training.

308

There's very little information

about body language.

309

Yeah, I, when I, when I'd finished

my T Touch training when I became

310

a level one practitioner, it meant

I could deliver one day workshops.

311

So I used to deliver one day workshops

to the groomers and it was, it became

312

apparent really quickly that a lot of

groomers didn't know what calming signals

313

were, didn't understand body language,

didn't understand figure stacking.

314

So it's, I think if groomer training

included dog behaviour first, how the

315

system works, how the body language,

how they communicate through their

316

body as well, how we can communicate

through our bodies and understand

317

things like trigger stacking, I think.

318

grooming would become much safer for

both the dogs and for the groomers.

319

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: what's

320

Clay?

321

Sue: so I think that's, that's why

we've met resistance and I don't think,

322

I think a lot of groomers struggle

with understanding what consent

323

grooming is or holistic grooming.

324

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,

325

Sue: I've heard people say, oh,

they walk in the door, you ask if

326

they want to be groomed and the dog

say no, so you let them go home.

327

Well, it's not that at all, you know, what

consent grooming is for example, the most

328

common technique I use is table protocol.

329

I have my table down low, I sit

on a chair, because I'm lazy.

330

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Would be me.

331

Make the,

332

Sue: I've got a little set

of steps, of caravan steps,

333

and I've put carpet on them.

334

And I just,

335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

texture nice on their paws,

336

Sue: so it's just like carpet,

so it's like they're going

337

up the normal stairs at home.

338

And

339

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

340

Sue: I just train them to get onto

the table, and then they're allowed to

341

get off the table when they need to.

342

So,

343

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm,

344

Sue: you know, I've had a dog in this

afternoon, she stayed on the table

345

for 40 minutes, and then decided

she needed a five minutes break.

346

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: had

347

Sue: So, yeah, she just needed a break.

348

She went and had five minutes,

then come back on the table.

349

So when I'm on the table,

that means I can groom them.

350

That is their consent

for me to groom them.

351

When they get off the

table, I have to stop.

352

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah,

353

Sue: must admit, when I first tried

it I tried it on my protocol first.

354

I sat on the floor with my

friend and asked me to groom her

355

working cock up and where she'd

been taking them to be groomed.

356

They'd had to have two people to hold

him and he had to be muzzled and she

357

said, well, you try grooming him.

358

And I says, well, I'll try, but I'm

not going to promise because I won't.

359

use restraint.

360

So I thought

361

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Silence.

362

Sue: away, did another one and he

just moved a little bit closer.

363

So I thought I'm actually gonna switch

my clippers on, see what he does.

364

Switched my clippers on, didn't move.

365

So I stroked him down the back, he didn't

move and actually managed to do two.

366

Stripes down his back clipping and he

got off the mat and I thought, that's

367

it, that's all I'm going to get done.

368

He went and looked out the window and

came back down and sat next to me again.

369

It just stunned me that

he chose to do that

370

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yes, all about choice.

371

Sue: yeah, and I managed

to do a full groom on him.

372

Without any restraints, without the

muscle, without another person holding

373

him, just giving him that choice to get on

and off, checking in and out as he wanted.

374

And that was it.

375

I was a total convert then

to consent based grooming.

376

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

377

Sue: It's

378

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

all about working with

379

the dog in front of you.

380

I

381

Sue: is, yeah.

382

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

383

Sue: And it's so much less

stressful for me as well because,

384

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm,

385

Sue: I was talking to somebody on

a podcast a few weeks ago and he

386

said, I think you're really brave

working with aggressive dogs.

387

And I said, well, actually, I don't

work with aggressive dogs because

388

they don't need to be aggressive.

389

Because if they feel threatened,

which is when that aggression comes

390

in, they just get off the table.

391

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: exactly.

392

Sue: So,

393

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

394

Sue: you know.

395

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

see how people probably a bit

396

threatened by it or a bit.

397

They just don't understand it.

398

Like you say, it's a bit like

399

Sue: Yeah,

400

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

They don't really have like behaviour.

401

It's a bit, it's a bit like

groomers, you know, so they

402

probably feel a bit threatened.

403

And almost some groomers, and I'm

not being I don't mean to speak ill

404

health, but you know, it's almost like

a conveyor belt getting them in and out.

405

But it sounds like, you know, your

owners or pet parents, guardians,

406

they, they've got dogs where they

know they, they're nervous, so they

407

don't mind that it takes a bit longer.

408

You may not even get the groom done.

409

Sue: you know what?

410

It doesn't take longer though.

411

I,

412

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, right.

413

Sue: I, I, I do, I do cockapoos

my bread and butter basically.

414

I can do a cockapoo an hour and a half

415

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

416

Oh wow.

417

Sue: because I'm not spending any time

for, and that's, and with them having

418

breaks as well and just taking a groom

at their pace, and there's, you know,

419

hour and a half for a cockapoo is pretty

standard, but it's because all the,

420

all the work I put in at the beginning

to make them feel safe, to build their

421

confidence, to do all the counter

conditions, desensitization, that's

422

what takes the time at the beginning.

423

But once I've done all that work and

worked out their individual plan.

424

We just fall into a nice

pattern and routine and it's

425

nice, nice and straightforward.

426

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

427

So we've already touched on it

a little bit, but moving on to

428

our next section of consent based

grooming and why does it matter?

429

So for those that might not be familiar,

could you just sort of break it down?

430

What consent based

grooming actually means?

431

Just a few steps.

432

Sue: Yeah, so consent based grooming

is teaching the dog a technique

433

so they can communicate to us.

434

So, because we do, when we're

working with dogs, we do a lot

435

of communicating to the dogs.

436

We do a lot of handling, but we don't

give them much opportunity to say what

437

they want and what they don't want.

438

And they can't speak English or

whatever language the groomer speaks.

439

So we need to teach them a

way of communicating to us.

440

So, for example say table

protocol is my favorite technique.

441

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

442

Sue: them to get onto the table.

443

That's the first step.

444

The second step is to teach

them when they're on the table,

445

they're going to get touched.

446

And I'm going to touch them with

grooming equipment, but they're

447

allowed to get off the table.

448

So when I'm first training them, I

like them to get on without food, but

449

I will throw food on the floor to get

them to choose to go off the table.

450

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Sure.

451

Sue: Sometimes I will use a

bit of food to make the table

452

a really positive place to be.

453

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

454

Sue: So the first step is really

teaching them on the table, you're going

455

to get touched, you're going to get

groomed, off the table, that all stops.

456

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

457

Sue: that gives them a

way to communicate to me.

458

Yes, I'm on the table.

459

You can touch me.

460

You can groom me or no, I'm off the table.

461

Please don't come.

462

Don't come near me with any equipment.

463

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

464

Sue: It's,

465

it's one of those things you've really

got to see it, for it to sink in, how,

466

how it, how it's done how it works.

467

The same with the mat protocol when,

when they come and show me on the mat.

468

Grooming will take place when they

get off the mat, grooming stops.

469

I use a chin rest as well.

470

Because

471

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

472

Sue: you know, particularly for dogs

that don't like having their face done,

473

teaching them a chin rest, you can get

the face done much quicker than a lot of

474

groomers will hold the chin fur, which

475

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

476

Sue: obviously then

builds in more resistance.

477

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

478

You are pre on that?

479

Sue: Yeah, because dogs will be trying

pulling away so you get them up, but

480

if you teach them just to put their

chin in your non grooming hand, you

481

know, it might take a few goes to

really get them confident to do that,

482

but after that, once they learn that,

that's one less stress for them because

483

they know they've got that choice.

484

I use place protocol.

485

Quite often as well, so I groom a couple

of dogs in their own home and I've got

486

one little dog that They've got three

steps from their hallway down to the

487

lounge and he sits at the top of those

steps to be groomed So while he's sitting

488

at the top of those steps, we groom him

because they use the same technique why

489

I'm not there When if that's enough,

he'll move away from the top of the steps.

490

So it's really

491

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

492

Sue: message to me or whoever's

grooming him that Top of the

493

stairs, grooming takes place, away

from the stairs, grooming stops.

494

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

495

Sue: They

496

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that

497

Sue: get it, the dogs get

it a lot quicker than we do.

498

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, always the way.

499

Oh, brilliant.

500

That's, that's great.

501

Thank you.

502

So in terms of a dog's emotional and

physical state, how would you assess

503

that before you start a grooming session?

504

Oh,

505

Sue: physical obviously.

506

Because I'm a TTouch practitioner, we

are always taught to make observations

507

before we start working on dogs.

508

You know, have a look at the coats,

you know, changing coat patterns

509

can indicate things like tension.

510

And I've actually just completed a Galen.

511

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I've been hearing some,

512

Sue: Yeah, they do.

513

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

some stuff about this.

514

Sue: Yeah, you have to have it.

515

I'll send you the link for it.

516

I've just done a it's a six hour

online session face to face on

517

the online sort of thing and it

goes through what's good posture.

518

What's what to look for for not

faults in posture, but what's

519

what's normal and what's not normal.

520

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

521

Sue: and it was, I found it really

interesting, really, really, it's

522

just added another layer to me.

523

Then there's a degree you can go on

to do, a diploma you can go on to

524

do, but that takes three years and

525

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I

526

Sue: yeah, I'm not sure I'm

quite in that platform yet.

527

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, a colleague you might, you might

528

know, Deb Betts, I think she's doing

529

Sue: Oh, Debbie?

530

Yeah.

531

No, no, Debbie.

532

Really?

533

Well.

534

Yeah, she's doing the, the

diploma, isn't it fair?

535

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

oh, she's doing the deflating

536

rights, but there is

537

Sue: Yeah.

538

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

like you say, like a, like a

539

taster course or something.

540

Sue: They do a couple of taster courses.

541

So they do, they do one that's just like

a, I think it's 20 pound and it's just an

542

hour and a half or something like that.

543

And it's just basically shows you what's,

what's a good position and what's the,

544

you know, weight and starts, starts

pay more attention to your own dog.

545

I just finished that yesterday, so,

but I do always pay attention when

546

the dogs come in, see, you know,

whether, whether they're limping, and

547

to be fair, I also do ask guardians if

they've been fine since the last session

548

whether they've had any health issues,

549

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

550

Sue: so I mean, groomers have more

hands on experience of dogs than

551

any other canine professional,

you know, to be quite honest.

552

So yeah, so I always do look at

them physically when they first

553

come in to make sure they've,

they've not got a leg hanging off.

554

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you imagine?

555

Remind us, Sue, of the name

of that, because I can't, I, I

556

struggle with the name of it.

557

Is it Galen?

558

Sue: Galen.

559

Yeah, G A L E N.

560

L E N,

561

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, just Galen

562

Sue: Galen Myotherapy.

563

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the one.

564

Sue: Yeah,

565

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Thank you.

566

Brilliant.

567

So,

568

Sue: and then from.

569

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, go on,

570

Sue: Oh, sorry.

571

From an emotional point of view,

I'll just be watching body language,

572

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

573

Sue: you know

574

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

language.

575

Sue: you know, and how happy they are,

you know, whether they're, I'm having

576

to drag them in from the gate, which I

577

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

578

Sue: rarely have.

579

Yeah, there's no dragging involved at all.

580

And yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's

one of the best bits of the job, you

581

know, I'm go, go most, I have about

50% pet parents stay, which is quite

582

different to a lot of the groupers,

583

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes

584

Mm,

585

Sue: stay, I go and meet them at the

gate and I'd say 95 percent of those,

586

I'll open the gate and they come

running straight through into my salon.

587

I think there's just one,

588

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

589

Sue: he gets a little bit

waylaid, shall I say, Lisbon's.

590

You know you spend hours

walking around the garden.

591

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah I'm

big on all pet parents, pet professionals

592

doing understanding body language.

593

Like my team cause I've got a dog

walking business and my team all do like

594

a understanding canine body language

workshop in the first few months of coming

595

Sue: Yeah.

596

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And

when I used to teach puppy classes in

597

person, I'd talk about it to pet parents.

598

But I'm very big on even them doing that.

599

Research even before

they get a doctor learn.

600

It's all about education around

601

Sue: It certainly is.

602

Yeah.

603

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

604

Sue: In my book, the Guardian's

version of the book, it talks about

605

calming signals and body language.

606

So does the Guardian's version.

607

So they all get a copy of that when they

first start bringing the book to me.

608

So they can understand about body

language and trigger stacking.

609

Because I think it's just important

for the Guardians to understand that.

610

It's just for me to understand that.

611

Thanks.

612

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

glad you touched on your book.

613

Cause I do have it, but it's

actually downstairs in my bookshelf.

614

But, I do need to I do need to, I've

got so many books I need to read.

615

It's terrible, but I need to, I need to,

I'm making a conscious effort to start

616

reading more this year, but I need to

read your book, but let's just tell our

617

listeners about your or I didn't know

there was, I think, I know there's one,

618

I didn't know there was a guardian and a,

619

Sue: There's three versions.

620

There's,

621

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: wow.

622

Sue: Yeah, so there's taking

the girl out of grooming your

623

dog, which is for pet parents.

624

There's taking the girl out

of the grooming salon, which

625

is for grooming professionals.

626

And then there's introducing

your puppeteer girl as grooming.

627

So that's the new puppy guardians

teach them so that they can do a

628

lot of the work term before they

take them to a grooming salon.

629

So that when they, for the puppies

go for the first session, they

630

know some things to expect.

631

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

We're, we're touched on that a

632

bit in the, in the episode about

633

Sue: Yeah.

634

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

puppies used to it and decentralization.

635

Now I'm going to have to

check what version I've got.

636

I remember seeing, being in one

of your groups and a bit being

637

posted, but I'm going to have

to check which version I've got.

638

Sue: They've all got

different dogs on the front.

639

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, I've got it.

640

After this, after this, I'm going to check

and make sure I've got the right one.

641

So many pet parents worry about their

pups feeling stressed at the groomers.

642

What are some of the key things

that you do differently to

643

make it a positive experience?

644

Sue: So I, as I say, about 50 percent

of my pet parents stay anyway, so they

645

can completely observe whilst they're

there, they can see how their pets are,

646

and I find in the mean that the dogs

do better with the parents, the pet

647

parents there, with their person there,

648

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah.

649

Sue: and I think some of that's down

to, because sometimes when you're

650

working one to one with a dog In

grooming, it can come a bit intense

651

for the dog because she's just

652

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm,

653

Sue: on that dog.

654

Whereas if the guardians are

there, I spend some of the time

655

talking to the guardians as well.

656

And it sort of takes the focus off the

dog a little bit, you know, I am obviously

657

concentrated on the dog to groom it.

658

But it gives, you know, it just makes it

a little bit less intense for the dog.

659

And it gives me somebody to talk

to because I do work on my own.

660

And also, with having the pet parent

there, I can talk to the pet parent.

661

Oh, did you see that?

662

What he did there?

663

And, oh, I think this leg's a little

bit, you know, in an odd position.

664

And then I get more information

about how they are at home,

665

what they do on a daily basis.

666

And that all feeds into how I can

adapt the groom to suit each dog.

667

But I think we're not one house.

668

When new dogs come to me, I do ace

free work for the first session.

669

So, I put things like licky mats

down, sniffle mats bits of old

670

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.

671

Sue: carpets, anything I've got sort of

laying about, and then I put different

672

treats on them, licky stuff they can lick.

673

And that's all I do the first session.

674

So they come into the salon, And they're

allowed to just do that free work.

675

I don't touch them.

676

They get to hear the, some of the noises.

677

The, the, the, the everyday

noises in my salon.

678

Like I've got a tree next to my

cabin and I get a lot of pigeons

679

walking up and down the top.

680

So they'll, they'll hear those.

681

They'll hear my dogs barking in the house.

682

They get to know my voice and the

smell of me and the smell of the salon.

683

And while, getting used to all this while

they're doing free work and the calm,

684

it starts to build up a really positive

experience for them straight away.

685

And then I just build on that over

the next three or four sessions of

686

doing a little bit more each time.

687

So by the time I need to groom

them, they know me really well,

688

they know my salon really well,

they're comfortable, they feel safe

689

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: good.

690

Sue: and that's off the

691

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

important.

692

Sue: battle.

693

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's important.

694

So just for our listeners that don't know

what ACE stands for, that's Animal Centred

695

Education ACE Free Work, and the wonderful

Sarah Fisher so another little reveal,

696

Sarah is coming on to the Yappy Hour

697

Sue: That's

698

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

So I I can't, I can't wait for, to

699

have Sarah while we're just in the

process of getting her booked in.

700

So yeah, Ace Freeway is definitely

something that's worth looking into.

701

Do you think that traditional, a

bit controversial, do you think that

702

traditional grooming environments

could contribute to anxiety in dogs?

703

Sue: Absolutely.

704

And again, it all comes back

down to this not feeling safe.

705

If you don't feel safe somewhere,

706

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

707

Sue: adds to the stress.

708

And it, again, it's not as the

groomers are harsh handling.

709

It's just being in a strange

environment with strange people,

710

strange smells and sounds.

711

It's, it's like, you know, I also

liken it to us, us going abroad, not

712

knowing anybody there, my own, and we're

just pushed into a room with complete

713

strangers talking a different language.

714

And then they start touching us and

moving us from one seat to another.

715

And, you know, your brain's exploding.

716

You don't know where the toilet is.

717

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

different smells and

718

Sue: Yeah,

719

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and yeah.

720

Sue: you don't know the protocols of

that where you go and you don't know

721

what you should be doing, what you

shouldn't be doing, you don't know

722

what they're going to do to you next.

723

So your nervous system will just be going

724

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

put yourself in the shoes of the dog.

725

Sue: absolutely.

726

Yeah.

727

So

728

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You won't like it.

729

Sue: it's not that the groomers

are being harsh or doing anything.

730

But it's just that lack of understanding

that really the dogs need to feel

731

safe before you start grooming them.

732

And that doesn't happen a lot.

733

You know, many dogs, they get taken

to a salon for the very first time.

734

And immediately they're put onto

a table or put into the bath.

735

And they have all this strange stuff.

736

Dogs don't know how to be groomed, you

know, they're not born knowing how to

737

be groomed other than the parents, you

know, the canine parents cleaning them

738

and that's the natural way of grooming.

739

And then all of a sudden

740

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

741

Sue: salon with all this stuff

going on with them with a complete

742

stranger, somebody they don't

understand or know, there might be

743

other dogs in the salon barking.

744

It's a lot.

745

So I definitely think even, even

one to one when I first started to

746

grooming, I wasn't quite particular

what clients to take on now.

747

They've got to want, they've got

to want my particular skills.

748

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

749

Sue: I don't, if somebody rings before,

I want my dog grooming tomorrow.

750

Can you do it?

751

They're not the client for me.

752

But, you know, when I used to take

those sorts of dogs, any dog on, I'd

753

get, they'd get, get, oh the fine being

groomed, the, the groomer says the fine.

754

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Of

755

Sue: And then, and then you'd sort of

get the dog in the bath and the dog's

756

freaking out, or throwing calming

signals at you right, left and centre.

757

And it, and it's.

758

It's a bit upsetting that, because I

don't want to criticise other groomers,

759

you don't, I didn't know things years

ago, you don't know what you don't know.

760

So

761

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

762

Sue: I think the groomer training

lets a lot of groomers down if body

763

language and dog behaviour was taught

in groomer training, then the groomers

764

would know what I know, basically,

765

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

766

Sue: I've just put a new

dog on started yesterday.

767

They probably did a

free work yesterday and.

768

The guardian says, Oh, she's

fine in the bath and being dried.

769

And automatically now put a question

mark over that is she really, you

770

know, so she won't get bath for a

few weeks yet, a few sessions yet.

771

So be interesting how calm she

and relaxed she is in the bath.

772

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

773

Sue: Yeah, it's, it's just a bit sad

that if the groomers had more dog

774

behaviour knowledge, they couldn't,

because some of the things you can,

775

it's quite easy to adapt some things

that takes a lot of stress away.

776

For example, doing that first session,

instead of bathing them and drying them

777

and, trimming them on the first session.

778

If you've just had a session where they

just were able to explore your salon,

779

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

780

Sue: Many groomers, most groomers,

in fact, stand up grooming.

781

So they've got the table

probably three foot high.

782

When you think, you know, you're one

of your toy poodles put on a three

783

foot high table, that's extremely high.

784

For a toy poodle, isn't it?

785

Or for any dog.

786

And then they've got the safety aids on.

787

So they might have a safety around

the neck and one on the belly.

788

If they've never had those on

before, again, that's quite scary.

789

And then

790

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: alien.

791

Sue: Then they start getting

brushed and touched and moved

792

around by a complete stranger.

793

And I think, you know, so what I've

done, because I have my table low,

794

I don't need to use the safety aids.

795

So the dogs are totally free on my table.

796

So I've taken my H bar off,

so, because I don't need it.

797

So the dogs have got complete

freedom to move around.

798

And that takes a lot of stress out for.

799

For some dogs as well.

800

I don't use muzzles because I

don't, mainly because I don't

801

need to because If the dog gets

stressed, it just gets off the table.

802

So

803

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

804

Yeah.

805

Sue: you know, there are lots

of things that groomers can do.

806

I mean, one of the biggest things I would

say, if any groomers are listening and

807

you want to think about things that reduce

stress in the salon, simply changing from

808

a noose or a collar around the neck to

a harness type restraint or safety aid

809

can make a massive difference in itself.

810

Because with a a harness type on,

they've got a better sense of balance.

811

It's more central rather than being all

the three straight being in one place.

812

It's more,

813

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

814

Sue: So just changing to a harness type

and a lovely, lovely lady whose business

815

is Just Think Dog has just designed

a grooming harness, which is amazing.

816

Yeah, specifically for grooming, so,

yeah, so simply by changing from that

817

collar and belly strap to a harness

makes a massive difference lowering your

818

table can make a big difference as well.

819

There's, there's lots of

little things you can do that

820

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

821

Sue: add up to a lot.

822

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

823

Thank you.

824

So just moving on to some of our common

grooming challenges and solutions.

825

What's one of the biggest

struggles dog parents have?

826

Sorry.

827

One of the biggest that dog

parents have is getting their

828

dog to tolerate brushing at home.

829

Do you have any top tips for this place?

830

Sue: there's a couple

of things you can do.

831

I also encourage new puppy guardians

when they want to brush the puppy.

832

Put a licky mat on the floor, or

wherever they're going to groom.

833

Make it a consistent place where you

do your grooming, so the puppy knows

834

when it's in that place, that's when

grooming is going to take place.

835

So it already, it builds up that

this, this is what happens here.

836

So don't make it their dog bed,

don't make it somewhere that

837

they're really fun, rewarding.

838

Just make it a nice quiet

place that you can groom them.

839

Put a licky mat on the floor.

840

Or the Lip and Calm one that Pet

Remedy have just bought out, which,

841

which got suckers all over the back.

842

I don't know if you've seen it.

843

So you can stick it to

windows, side of cupboards.

844

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, the

845

Sue: it sticks everywhere,

even if you don't want it to.

846

So you can put, yeah, you can

put it in the bath as well and it

847

sticks really well to the bath.

848

And why stick it?

849

The puppy's licking away.

850

Just gently start the brush or comb

or do whatever you need to do while

851

they're doing something positive.

852

So it makes that easier.

853

When I first started grooming I

had, I knew this lady a long time.

854

I knew her from agility with her

previous dog and my previous dogs.

855

And she bought her little Shih Tzu

to me and the poor dog was lifted.

856

So I shaved him off completely brought

him back six weeks later and matted again.

857

And I said, look, why

aren't you brushing him?

858

She says, well, I have to pin him down

to brush him and he doesn't like it.

859

So I thought we've got to find a way that

she can brush and he's got some power.

860

So we came up with this technique

called, I call tooth brushing.

861

And I said, right.

862

Shaved him.

863

When you're sitting watching the TV, just

get the brush out, do one stroke on him,

864

then watch what he does, does he move

away, does he show you a calming signal,

865

because you know about calming signals.

866

As if, if not, do two brushes

and then watch what he does.

867

If he moves away, just let him move away.

868

If he shows you a calming

signal, just stop for a little

869

while and then try again.

870

And this is what she did.

871

She gradually was able to do four or

five brushes and then he'd move away.

872

But then a bit later

on, she'd do a bit more.

873

And then we found when she brought

him back six weeks later, he was

874

just a bit matted on his legs.

875

But his torso, which had

previously been matted, was.

876

Completely matte free.

877

And by the 12 week mark, she brought

him back and he wasn't matted at all,

878

apart from the odd tag here and there.

879

And that's still how she brushes him

now, you know, if he moves away, she

880

stops and waits for him to come back.

881

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

882

Sue: Now she's, it's rare

he comes with a mat now.

883

The only time she, poor lady had

surgery for cancer last year and

884

there were a couple of times where

he got a few more mats than usual.

885

But you know what?

886

I totally understand that you probably

haven't got the MNV2, the brushing.

887

So

888

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

889

Sue: You know, did what we usually

do, I just cut the mats out and sorted

890

him out and then she brought him

back and now she's, she's recovered.

891

We're back into the routine of

him not, not being matted at all.

892

So there are, there are,

893

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's funny.

894

Sue: sorry, go on.

895

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, go on.

896

funny because our next question

is about matting, but yeah, go on.

897

Sue: Yeah.

898

So, you know, there's usually a reason

why people are not brushing their dogs.

899

So I always like to take the time

to ask them why, because it might

900

be they're using the wrong brush,

they're using the wrong technique.

901

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: hmm.

902

Sue: I've got a friend that has got really

bad arthritis in her hand, so brushing is

903

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

904

Sue: So if we can understand the

difficulties people are having,

905

we can find solutions for them.

906

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

907

Yeah.

908

so talking about continuing matting,

there's some breeds that seem to turn

909

into walking velcro pads overnight.

910

What should pet parents do and

avoid when dealing with matting?

911

Mm hmm.

912

Sue: Okay, so the best thing to do if

you've got a dog that's matted, if you're

913

pet is matted, take it to a groomer.

914

There's some breeds that can't be

clipped off or shouldn't be clipped off,

915

but I think we'll discuss that later.

916

So if you've got like a Shih Tzu

or a Cockapoo wall coated dogs

917

that can be clipped, just take it

to the groomer, get it completely

918

shaved off, start from scratch.

919

I also advise my pet parents

to go for a length that they

920

can manage in between grooms.

921

So most of my clients

do choose to go short.

922

I've had a milieu I've had in

this afternoon, her guardian likes

923

to keep her a little bit fluffy.

924

But she brings it in every four

weeks, so she can maintain that

925

coat, that length in between grooms.

926

So most cockapoos come every six weeks

927

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

928

Sue: so instead of coming every six weeks,

she comes in every four weeks, just so

929

she can maintain that little bit of fluff.

930

So.

931

Always go for a length that you can

maintain without portering your dog.

932

I live in quite a rural area, so I get a

lot of dogs that spend a lot of time in

933

wet fields particularly at the moment.

934

So, again,

935

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: man.

936

Sue: in fields, go for a shortcut.

937

It's much easier.

938

So, yeah, again, most of mine are

taken short because they want to

939

go in the fields and they want to

spend hours brushing out matting

940

and pitholes and all sorts.

941

Not technically, well it is

sort of technically related,

942

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

943

Yeah.

944

Yeah.

945

Sue: out the twig, I

immediately can cut that.

946

Either through the branch, through the

twig, and pull it out so it doesn't get

947

raveled up and cause a mat, or, you know.

948

If it's really embedded into the

fur, I'll just cut the fur out.

949

And I can do that immediately

rather than an hour later when

950

we're at home, when it's already

started to cause that big mat.

951

So yeah, really go for a length

that you can cope with that's

952

practical for your dog's life.

953

If it doesn't enjoy being

brushed, go for a short style.

954

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

955

Sue: And then just maintain it.

956

And if, if you have got a dog with

a difficult coat to maintain, go,

957

go to the grooms more frequently,

958

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

959

Sue: you know, because

they will be able to

960

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Makes

961

Sue: the coat in between grooms for,

you know, in, because I know some

962

groomers, some people decide to go I

have, say, a groom every three weeks,

963

but one time it's just a mini groom

and the next time it's a full groom.

964

So I used to do one, she'd come

every three weeks and she'd have a

965

bath and just to tidy up and then

the three weeks later she'd be back

966

again and she'd have a full groom.

967

So some groomers will offer that

for you as well, especially if you

968

can't maintain six weeks, you know.

969

just a better option than leaving

it six weeks and then being

970

fully matted six weeks later.

971

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

972

Brilliant.

973

What would you say like the

biggest mistake that owners or

974

pet parents unknowingly make

when it comes to grooming?

975

Mm.

976

Mm.

977

Mm.

978

Sue: I think it is this.

979

I've got to get this done.

980

So I'm just going to hold on to

his collar and get it brushed,

981

get him brushed or her brushed.

982

And then course you had

it, you had in that.

983

If you don't know how to brush properly

either, that just makes it even worse

984

because a lot of people will just brush

the top layer of the dog and then It looks

985

like they're not matted, but then when you

get to the base of the fur, it's pelted.

986

So it's really important if you've

got a long coated dog that you

987

part the fur, then brush out from

the root right down to the end.

988

Keep brushing like that,

then re part the fur again.

989

So that you've, you get down to the

skin every time, not brushing the skin,

990

obviously, but you brush from the root

outwards, and then when you've brushed

991

them all over, go through with a comb

to make sure there's no mats, but just

992

brushing the top layer, you're just going

to get the pelting, and that's when they

993

have to go really, really short, and

it's really uncomfortable for the dog.

994

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

995

Right.

996

Brilliant.

997

So, moving on to the emotional and

physical impact of grooming people often

998

see grooming as just an aesthetic thing,

but does, how does proper grooming

999

impact a dog's overall well being?

00:49:55,705 --> 00:49:58,845

Sue: It all does come down to the

matting, to be quite honest, you

00:49:58,845 --> 00:50:03,925

know, if your dog gets matted, it

doesn't work, the coat doesn't work

00:50:03,925 --> 00:50:08,735

properly how it's supposed to work, it

doesn't protect the skin, it doesn't

00:50:08,735 --> 00:50:13,805

protect the because strangely enough,

you know, dogs, dogs fur is designed

00:50:14,005 --> 00:50:16,175

to protect them from the elements.

00:50:16,765 --> 00:50:17,105

So,

00:50:17,154 --> 00:50:17,854

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

00:50:18,125 --> 00:50:20,785

Sue: if your dog's coat is

matted, it's not going to

00:50:20,815 --> 00:50:22,265

protect them from those elements.

00:50:22,275 --> 00:50:23,745

So, the.

00:50:23,975 --> 00:50:25,475

It's particularly worse in summer.

00:50:25,475 --> 00:50:30,835

So if you say we've got a matted poodle

or cockapoo, what happens is if it's a

00:50:30,835 --> 00:50:36,645

really hot day, the coat will absorb all

that heat and then keep that heat onto the

00:50:36,645 --> 00:50:41,335

skin and not let any air flow through it.

00:50:41,485 --> 00:50:46,265

Whereas if it's nice and brushed

out, that acts as a protector against

00:50:46,265 --> 00:50:51,280

the sun, the fresh airs that can go

between the foot, the piece of the fur.

00:50:52,305 --> 00:50:57,195

And it keeps the skin much cooler,

so it's protecting the dog's skin.

00:50:57,835 --> 00:51:01,485

So yeah, dogs have particular

coats for a reason.

00:51:02,515 --> 00:51:08,735

So like a Labrador, a Labrador that

was bred originally to retrieve,

00:51:09,805 --> 00:51:12,225

you know, particularly in water.

00:51:12,775 --> 00:51:18,525

Their coat is Texts, you know,

the water just drips off them

00:51:18,755 --> 00:51:20,195

unless they're in there forever.

00:51:20,845 --> 00:51:23,155

Have you ever tried to wet a spaniel?

00:51:24,235 --> 00:51:27,425

If you've ever tried to wet a

spaniel, you'll know that their

00:51:27,425 --> 00:51:29,575

coat is quite water resistant.

00:51:30,025 --> 00:51:34,215

And that's because, you know,

their job was to be out in

00:51:34,215 --> 00:51:35,805

the fields all day flushing.

00:51:36,385 --> 00:51:39,345

So if it was chucking it down a rain,

you didn't want your dog soaking.

00:51:39,345 --> 00:51:41,515

So the coats are designed for a purpose.

00:51:42,915 --> 00:51:47,885

You know, and keeping them in,

in the condition to achieve that

00:51:47,885 --> 00:51:50,235

purpose is what we need to be doing.

00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:52,639

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Pretty good.

00:51:53,629 --> 00:51:57,239

do you think dogs can actually enjoy

being groomed once it's done right?

00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,635

Oh, wow.

00:51:59,635 --> 00:52:00,834

Yes.

00:52:01,115 --> 00:52:05,645

Sue: as a puppy in the correct

way, I think some dogs do enjoy it.

00:52:05,645 --> 00:52:12,135

Going back to when my aunt gave me my

toy poodle, she had miniature poodles.

00:52:12,695 --> 00:52:15,905

She had three miniature poodles

of her own and she had one.

00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:21,770

She had a beautiful white one and this

dog, honestly, I used to watch her

00:52:21,770 --> 00:52:26,570

grooming it and when it came to doing

it, she used to paint her nails and

00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:32,300

she would literally sit with her paw

held out to have her nails painted, but

00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:38,380

again, no restraints, free movement,

and she always looked really glamorous.

00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:41,810

You could imagine her walking around

France with a little handbag on her

00:52:41,810 --> 00:52:46,315

paw, you know, strutting her stuff,

and you could tell that she loved it.

00:52:46,565 --> 00:52:51,725

She enjoyed the attention, so I think

yes, if it's introduced properly, it's

00:52:51,735 --> 00:52:54,815

stress free, then dogs can enjoy it.

00:52:55,345 --> 00:53:00,125

Unfortunately a lot depends on

the dog's temperament as well.

00:53:00,465 --> 00:53:05,115

Dogs with anxiety Rethought

guarding actually is closely

00:53:05,115 --> 00:53:07,535

linked to body handling issues.

00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:13,360

So, many of the dogs I groom also

have resource guarding issues as well.

00:53:14,670 --> 00:53:18,070

And I suppose it's just their way

of resource guarding their body.

00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:19,430

So

00:53:19,660 --> 00:53:20,120

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:53:20,297 --> 00:53:24,107

Sue: yeah, so I do think it's possible

for some dogs to enjoy being groomed.

00:53:24,157 --> 00:53:27,267

I've got a few dogs that I've

groomed since they've been a puppy.

00:53:28,087 --> 00:53:32,777

And they're my easiest dogs to

groom because it's been, they've

00:53:32,777 --> 00:53:35,737

been not trained to be groomed.

00:53:36,452 --> 00:53:38,872

They've experienced it in a positive way.

00:53:38,892 --> 00:53:41,012

So, you know, they're just.

00:53:41,370 --> 00:53:41,400

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Good.

00:53:41,627 --> 00:53:45,877

Sue: Let me get on with it, including

to my own poodle, one of my own poodles.

00:53:45,877 --> 00:53:47,127

I had her from eight weeks.

00:53:47,797 --> 00:53:52,827

Brilliant breeder, you know, really

good breeder that started grooming

00:53:52,827 --> 00:53:56,537

them before I had her at eight weeks.

00:53:58,220 --> 00:53:58,870

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's good.

00:53:59,197 --> 00:54:02,557

Sue: And yeah, about to put

her on the table to dry.

00:54:03,617 --> 00:54:05,607

Lays down on the table

and lets me dry off.

00:54:06,047 --> 00:54:07,017

It's that easy.

00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:09,920

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh.

00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:10,680

Okay.

00:54:11,710 --> 00:54:17,390

So, handling anxious or sensitive dogs in

the grooming process is our next section.

00:54:18,050 --> 00:54:22,470

So, many dog parents have

spicy or anxious dogs.

00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,880

How do you approach the grooming for them?

00:54:25,947 --> 00:54:29,017

Sue: Yeah, it's, it's, it goes back

to what I was talking about how

00:54:29,017 --> 00:54:30,377

I introduced them to the salon.

00:54:30,377 --> 00:54:32,247

I get, you know, they get to do free work.

00:54:32,717 --> 00:54:35,997

I get to know the dog

first, put a plan together.

00:54:36,105 --> 00:54:40,875

Areas of anxiety or where they need

to use, whether you previously used

00:54:40,875 --> 00:54:43,425

aggression to stop that happening.

00:54:43,795 --> 00:54:45,645

And it's just building a plan around.

00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:52,150

their preferences, building on

what they like and working on what

00:54:52,190 --> 00:54:56,340

they don't enjoy to change their

emotional response to that element.

00:54:56,350 --> 00:55:01,560

So I've been working with a, a

kapupu recently that had been

00:55:01,570 --> 00:55:03,450

banned from previous groomers.

00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:08,790

He'd spent two years being sedated,

having to be sedated for grooms.

00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:09,900

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow,

00:55:10,282 --> 00:55:12,712

Sue: After four sessions with

him, I was able to clip him off

00:55:12,732 --> 00:55:14,402

completely after four sessions.

00:55:15,252 --> 00:55:22,332

I think I got one, I think I got one growl

in there, but nothing, no, no aggression.

00:55:22,332 --> 00:55:26,912

So by eliminating the

need to show aggression.

00:55:28,057 --> 00:55:30,867

I'm making the groom easier for

them and I'm making the groom

00:55:30,867 --> 00:55:32,357

easier for myself as well.

00:55:33,257 --> 00:55:35,577

And he's just the most delightful dog now.

00:55:35,597 --> 00:55:40,167

You know, he's, he really likes being

bathed, which is really straight.

00:55:40,357 --> 00:55:42,867

Those dogs hate it, but he loves the bath.

00:55:42,937 --> 00:55:44,327

So what we'll do now

00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,060

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah

00:55:45,417 --> 00:55:47,197

Sue: one session he'll get a bath.

00:55:47,772 --> 00:55:51,732

And we'll do a little bit of training of

the things he don't like, and then the

00:55:51,732 --> 00:55:57,242

next session he gets clipped off, which is

the bit he doesn't really enjoy so much,

00:55:57,452 --> 00:56:00,292

but now, you know, I can clip him off.

00:56:02,597 --> 00:56:05,407

And it's just working with

each individual dog to find

00:56:05,407 --> 00:56:06,887

their dislikes and their likes.

00:56:07,547 --> 00:56:12,287

With the, I do find the generally anxious

dogs a little bit more difficult because

00:56:13,347 --> 00:56:18,847

if they're generally anxious on day to

day, there's not one specific thing in

00:56:18,847 --> 00:56:21,917

the salon particularly that they find.

00:56:22,442 --> 00:56:23,012

difficult.

00:56:23,012 --> 00:56:25,022

It's everything they find

difficult in the salon.

00:56:25,022 --> 00:56:30,402

So again, it's finding the best

way for each individual dog

00:56:31,372 --> 00:56:32,812

so that they can cope better.

00:56:32,872 --> 00:56:36,962

I've got for example, a little dog that

I said I'd go to his home to groom.

00:56:37,432 --> 00:56:41,422

He would come to the salon,

didn't like the car, didn't

00:56:41,422 --> 00:56:42,882

like how his harness put on.

00:56:43,742 --> 00:56:48,012

And we taught him table protocol

and would probably get 10 minutes

00:56:48,012 --> 00:56:50,452

of grooming using table protocol.

00:56:50,502 --> 00:56:55,332

But after 10 minutes, he would I was

totally disengaged, couldn't cope,

00:56:55,362 --> 00:56:59,762

wouldn't get back on the table, would

find stuff to snag around the salon

00:56:59,762 --> 00:57:02,482

that he'd never bothered with before.

00:57:03,172 --> 00:57:05,752

And then it was really difficult

for the guy to get his harness

00:57:05,752 --> 00:57:07,782

back on to get him in the car.

00:57:07,782 --> 00:57:09,472

So I said,

00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:10,740

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I've got a workup.

00:57:11,332 --> 00:57:12,212

Sue: this is not working.

00:57:12,762 --> 00:57:14,482

Let me come to your house.

00:57:14,492 --> 00:57:16,702

So you don't have to come in the car.

00:57:17,102 --> 00:57:20,882

He doesn't have to have his harness on

and let's see if it makes a difference.

00:57:21,102 --> 00:57:22,752

I get 45 minutes now.

00:57:23,382 --> 00:57:27,832

a really good focus work, which

means I can completely kick them

00:57:27,832 --> 00:57:33,052

off in 45 minutes and get a little

bit of time to have a bit of a play.

00:57:34,442 --> 00:57:38,972

So it really is just working

out what's best for each dog.

00:57:40,355 --> 00:57:40,715

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:57:40,765 --> 00:57:42,055

Working with a dog in front of you.

00:57:42,055 --> 00:57:42,795

I love that.

00:57:43,215 --> 00:57:46,845

What can pet parents do at home

to prepare their dogs for a

00:57:46,845 --> 00:57:48,645

stress free grooming session?

00:57:48,695 --> 00:57:50,985

So obviously you mentioned some

bath then, but is there anything

00:57:51,135 --> 00:57:53,335

else in terms of preparation?

00:57:53,672 --> 00:57:57,372

Sue: yeah, a lot of it is obviously if

they buy my books, they can do a lot of.

00:57:58,137 --> 00:58:01,647

work at home with making them more

comfortable with being groomed.

00:58:02,207 --> 00:58:06,317

But it's thinking about any

triggers leading up to a groom.

00:58:06,367 --> 00:58:12,877

So if you've got a dog that's reactive

to other dogs, that is sensitive to other

00:58:12,877 --> 00:58:19,187

dogs or other people, or You know, life in

general, try and keep them stress free as

00:58:19,187 --> 00:58:23,127

much as you can a few days up to a groom

so that they're coming into the grooming

00:58:23,127 --> 00:58:26,407

salon as rest as peaceful as possible.

00:58:27,087 --> 00:58:27,917

So some groomers will.

00:58:27,950 --> 00:58:29,120

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that bucket isn't full

00:58:29,267 --> 00:58:30,337

Sue: Absolutely.

00:58:30,347 --> 00:58:32,577

Make sure that bucket's

as empty as possible.

00:58:33,427 --> 00:58:36,057

We have, we do have a lot of groomers

that will say, if they've got a

00:58:36,057 --> 00:58:39,167

difficult dog, they'll say, oh, take

it for an hour's walk before they

00:58:39,167 --> 00:58:40,857

bring them to the salon, wear them out.

00:58:42,067 --> 00:58:42,907

And I'm thinking,

00:58:42,980 --> 00:58:43,490

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

00:58:44,127 --> 00:58:47,407

Sue: that's all well and good, but what if

you've got a dog that is really sensitive

00:58:47,407 --> 00:58:52,567

to other dogs or people and being out in

the street, that's going to trigger them.

00:58:52,947 --> 00:58:55,997

But also, what if you've got a dog

that's got bilateral hip, that's got

00:58:56,027 --> 00:58:58,467

hip displace, your luxate and patella.

00:58:59,107 --> 00:59:01,317

then they're coming

into the salon in pain.

00:59:02,437 --> 00:59:06,647

And whilst I'm talking about pain,

pain is probably one of the biggest

00:59:06,647 --> 00:59:08,087

issues in the grooming salon.

00:59:09,367 --> 00:59:13,477

There's a lot more dogs in

pain and then they're blamed

00:59:13,497 --> 00:59:16,737

for being, they certainly are.

00:59:16,737 --> 00:59:21,287

You've got dogs that, you know, come

in and then they're being moved about,

00:59:21,287 --> 00:59:24,907

they're being washed and rubbed on,

probably joints that are painful.

00:59:24,907 --> 00:59:28,977

And then the dogs are blamed for

getting aggressive when actually

00:59:29,130 --> 00:59:29,820

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

00:59:29,877 --> 00:59:30,847

Sue: down to that pain.

00:59:31,427 --> 00:59:32,237

So I am.

00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:32,830

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:59:33,587 --> 00:59:40,277

Sue: Because I only, I probably only groom

10, 12 dogs a week I'm very flexible.

00:59:40,347 --> 00:59:47,017

So, if I've got a dog that's Has got an

injury or been to the, had to have an

00:59:47,017 --> 00:59:51,997

emergency appointment at the vets or has

been sick or ill overnight, I'd rather

00:59:51,997 --> 00:59:58,377

move that appointment and wait until the

dog's better or if it's out of, I've got

00:59:58,377 --> 01:00:02,127

one dog in particular I'm working with, a

working, another working Cocker Spaniel,

01:00:03,147 --> 01:00:05,477

that he's really sensitive to rain.

01:00:06,592 --> 01:00:12,452

So, if it's raining or really windy,

we just move the appointment to another

01:00:12,452 --> 01:00:14,402

day when it's not wet and windy.

01:00:15,192 --> 01:00:19,342

Our South Wales, I know I'm going to get

nothing done because he's so stressed

01:00:20,565 --> 01:00:21,215

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

01:00:22,582 --> 01:00:28,222

Sue: that he can't cope and he is, he

has got a bite history, not with me, but

01:00:28,972 --> 01:00:31,332

with previous because he was rehomed.

01:00:31,442 --> 01:00:32,342

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, bless him.

01:00:32,608 --> 01:00:33,218

Sue: so.

01:00:34,123 --> 01:00:38,313

His new guardians are working

with a vet behaviourist as well.

01:00:38,593 --> 01:00:42,493

So they're doing all they can to

make this dog's life much better.

01:00:43,073 --> 01:00:47,923

But I know that I know that if I push

him too far, he's still would bite.

01:00:48,563 --> 01:00:52,793

So if I can eliminate all the

triggers, as many triggers as

01:00:52,793 --> 01:00:56,793

I can before he comes into the

salon, then that makes sense to me.

01:00:57,003 --> 01:01:00,783

So I've got a less

stressed dog to start with.

01:01:01,707 --> 01:01:02,477

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

01:01:03,547 --> 01:01:08,377

So, moving on to our next section,

which is breed specific grooming advice.

01:01:08,377 --> 01:01:11,457

So, breeds have different grooming needs.

01:01:11,507 --> 01:01:14,547

Are there any general guidelines

that pet parents should

01:01:14,547 --> 01:01:15,787

follow based on a coat type?

01:01:16,385 --> 01:01:21,485

Sue: Yeah, so there are specific

brushes or tools for different dogs.

01:01:22,085 --> 01:01:24,875

And you, you are best to talk

to, you know, depending on

01:01:24,875 --> 01:01:26,275

the coat type of your dog.

01:01:26,935 --> 01:01:29,475

Because there are so many different,

you know, cause poodlers have

01:01:29,475 --> 01:01:30,725

been crossed with everything now.

01:01:30,765 --> 01:01:35,605

They've, and all the coats vary so much.

01:01:36,005 --> 01:01:40,470

You are probably best talking to a

groomer to ask what you should be using.

01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,760

But in saying that I have found

so for an example, if you went to

01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,820

most groomers and you said, I've

got cockapoo, what brush is best?

01:01:48,220 --> 01:01:49,710