This remastered episode features architect David Applebaum, who shares his journey and insights into home design. Eric G reflects on his recent loss due to the devastating Pacific Palisades wildfires. In this episode from 2021 David emphasizes the importance of creating homes that inspire and nurture. The conversation delves into the challenges and rewards of working with clients, especially those who have been in their homes long enough to know what truly works for them. Eric G and David explore the significance of thoughtful design that resonates with personal experiences and lifestyles, proving that architecture is as much about people as it is about structures. If you feel inspired by David’s story and want to support his recovery, please consider contributing to the GoFundMe campaign: https://gofund.me/09182686

As the discussion evolves, Eric and David delve into the intricacies of home design and renovation, shedding light on the delicate balance between functionality and aesthetics. David shares captivating stories from his career, touching on his experiences with various clients and the unique challenges that arise in the field of architecture. They explore the emotional connection people have with their homes, illustrating how a thoughtfully designed space can significantly enhance one's quality of life. The conversation is punctuated with humor and camaraderie, showcasing the deep bond between the two friends as they navigate their professional journeys while supporting one another through adversity.

The episode serves not only as a platform for raising awareness about David's plight but also as a source of inspiration for anyone facing challenges in their own lives. Eric and David's dialogue reinforces the idea that creating a home is about more than just bricks and mortar; it's about crafting a space that nurtures, inspires, and comforts. By the episode's conclusion, listeners are left with a sense of hope and a renewed appreciation for the power of architecture to transform lives, as well as a clear path to contribute to a worthy cause.

Takeaways:

• David Applebaum has a unique perspective on designing spaces that evoke emotions and inspire creativity.
• The importance of understanding a client's lifestyle to create a truly functional home.
• Architects play a vital role in transforming a house into a home that reflects personal values.
• Quality design is about balancing aesthetics with practical living spaces for families.
• The ongoing wildfires in California highlight the need for community support and resilience.

Links referenced in this episode:

• https://gofund.me/09182686

To get your questions answered by Eric G give us a call in the studio at 833-239-4144 24/7 and Eric G will get back to you and answer your question and you might end up in a future episode of Around the House.

Thanks for listening to Around the house if you want to hear more please subscribe so you get notified of the latest episode as it posts at https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/listen

If you want to join the Around the House Insider for access to the back catalog, Exclusive Content and a direct email to Eric G and access to the show early https://around-the-house-with-e.captivate.fm/support

We love comments and we would love reviews on how this information has helped you on your house! Thanks for listening! For more information about the show head to https://aroundthehouseonline.com/

Information given on the Around the House Show should not be considered construction or design advice for your specific project, nor is it intended to replace consulting at your home or jobsite by a building professional. The views and opinions expressed by those interviewed on the podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the Around the House Show.

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It's around the house.

When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to know but we've got you covered.

This is AROUND the house.

Welcome to the Round the House show, the next generation of home improvement.

I am Eric G.

Thanks for joining me on this special episode today.

All our episodes are brought to you by our friends over at Monument Grills.

Check them out@monument.com now today we are trying to raise money for one of my friends and regular contributor to the around the House Show, David Applebaum.

You might know David, he's been on the show a bunch.

He's widely known as the architect of the stars in California.

After going through a divorce, which I've done myself, he resettled in an amazing place in the Pacific Palisades.

One of those cool vintage mobile home parks that were along Pacific coast highway right there.

It was always a treat to go down and meet him, his house and we'd walk down the beach, grab dinner in Santa Monica, come back when I was in town when I was working or playing or whatever.

After the wildfire, he lost everything and is now starting over again.

Will he be able to rebuild back at the park?

I don't think we'll really know that answer for a long time is they're still putting the fire out even today as the fire is going.

As we're recording this, it's only 13% contained and they have another week of fighting this and it's gonna be one of the worst natural disasters, if not the worst wildfire here in US History.

This is still not any close to being over as I'm sure there's gonna be even more victims out there.

I wanted to share with you one of my favorite interviews with him from a few years ago.

We're raising money today for David and this GoFundMe campaign that my friend and former co host here and around the house Caroline Bowski put together.

David has lost not only his design studio and home, but it's going to be a slow go just to get the insurance process completed.

Our plan is for this GoFundMe to help him recover as quickly as possible as he was only him and his family were only left with the clothes on their back.

They had to run basically.

And so he jumped in his car, his motorcycle and his car and everything in his design studio and house is left to rubble.

I'VE seen the pictures.

There is scrap metal there and a bunch of ash.

So take a look at the show notes on your podcast player and check out the GoFundMe campaign that his friends have put together.

Let's help him out so that he can help others as they design and rebuild and recover from this natural disaster.

Now let's get to the show.

This is a special episode because I've got my good friend David Applebaum, architect of the stars, here.

Welcome, brother to around the House again.

Eric, always a blast to talk to you.

People don't realize that Eric and I actually talk constantly with silly messages or conversations about things that come up in our lives.

Like, can you believe I've been to your house?

Yes.

This is not just a radio interview.

This is two friends having a good time on the radio and a podcast talking about stuff that we love to do.

Yeah.

And I need to get to your house, but I know that as soon as I do, you're going to put a tool belt and put me to work, which is fine.

I like working and I love actually getting my hands dirty in that way.

I do.

You know that.

But I would give you a drafting pencil and a drafting board and go now.

What about this elevation, David?

Yeah, but see, the thing that would be great about doing something like that with you is we might do a couple of mock ups.

So because I'm very three dimensional and the stuff that I do doesn't always show as well on paper, so it's always good.

That's why I build a model for every design that I do.

Because first of all, I've found I cannot explain to the client why my idea is good if they don't have a chance to actually see it.

Because if things aren't the way they're used to, they can get very uncomfortable.

I have a story about a client.

A long time ago I came.

This is actually, now that I think about, this was maybe the most empowering thing that ever happened to me in my life.

I had just started my practice.

I was driving a Blazer, four wheel drive SUV before they were popular.

It was actually a truck that had the, the shell on the back because I skied pretty much every weekend back then.

Single, no kids, lot easier.

And this client, this potential client had seen one of, actually saw the model of this house that I had done and or about to do.

And she said, oh, I love what this is.

What is this?

This is your house.

How did he make your house look like this?

I gotta meet your architect.

And so I Showed up, and she was not very friendly.

And we walk inside.

She's got this hillside house.

So there were nine levels in the house.

You entered, you took four steps down to the living room and then three steps down to the kitchen, which meant typical remodeling, which would be to add another room you couldn't do because the floor wasn't the same level.

The floor next to you was at eye level.

Totally get that.

My house growing up had seven levels.

It was a nightmare to me that, yeah, we had seven levels at my house growing up as a snake, early 70s house.

And parents, we.

I have three brothers who needed a big house for all the kids.

Seven levels in this house for that same crazy reason.

And I think that always scarred me a little bit as a designer.

Well, so I'm looking at how hard it is to do a remodeling.

And I had.

I'm looking around, and she said.

And she just looks at me and says, well, I've had nine other architects look at this.

I've spent $20,000 on preliminary designs.

Tell me what you've got that they haven't already told me.

And I said, I think that your kitchen and your dining room are in the wrong places.

She looked at me like, are you an idiot?

And she said, what?

How could you say that?

I said, well, your dining room is actually just a banquette facing the backyard, and Your kitchen is two rooms, basically two Cs intertwined with each other.

Said, here's my thought.

If we take the two rooms that are your kitchen and clean it up and make it into a nice, formal dining room that overlooks the garden, we can then take what is this little abutment of a casual diner dining room.

Let me go out into the garden next to the pool to make an L shape around the pool.

And you know better than a lot of other people, and I think a lot of your listeners know that new construction is less expensive than remodeling because you build a new foundation and new utilities.

You don't have to tie in and work around other things.

Yep.

And I said, if we expand in this direction, then it's really inexpensive, and we can give you glass on all three sides.

You'll be in the middle of the.

You'll have the.

It was in a canyon.

You can see the canyon on two sides, in the pool on the other.

And she looked at me and said, do you have a card?

And I said, yes.

So she took my card, went to a bulletin board.

She pulled a pin out and threw out the nine Other architects cards, Nice.

Send me a contract.

Nobody came up with something like that.

And I was like, wow.

And then she said, I want to have lunch with you after we sign the contract and explain something.

And she sat me down and she said, you're driving the wrong car.

I thought that you were a nail jockey that thought he knew how to draw.

And I was so mean to you and I apologize.

And until when you opened up your mouth like, oh, that's a great idea.

So.

But in that as I was, she wanted her son's room expanded because it was a little seven by eight, little thing, tiny.

So the only way that I could add on to it was I started with nine levels.

I ended up with 12 because I had to do other half levels to fit in between.

So he got a room that had two levels and one became a play area and one became a bed area.

And it was actually really interesting.

And then next to it, we built a guest room.

And I said, this is where you need to put your master bedroom.

You're in a very dark, half underground area.

You should be here.

It's a tree house.

You've got.

You put glass on three sides and surround you by trees and it would be such a beautiful place to wake up every morning.

He said, no, I'm happy where I'm at.

When it was built, she looked at me and she said, you're right.

I should have put the living room, the master bedroom here.

It would have been so much nicer.

I'm just so used to living in the same way.

Said, you got to get now.

I was only in my 20s.

Yep.

She said, you've got to get better at pushing people at things when they don't know.

Hey, guys.

I wanted to take a moment and see if you can help David out.

Click on the link in the show notes for the GoFundMe campaign.

And even if it's five bucks, it makes a huge difference to getting David back up on his feet.

Now let's get back to the conversation.

But you don't always know what you don't know.

And that's why you hire an architect, because you can get really tunnel visioned on the way that you have lived or the way that you see it.

And you might not see another way to skin a cat.

See.

And that's the important part.

And this is why I wanted to talk to you today, because that's the thing that I look at with people, especially people that have been in that house for over three or four years, especially if they've been in there 10 or 15 or even longer because they have the habits, and those habits are hard to break.

And those habits can really limit what the People have a hard time thinking outside of the box, visualizing.

And when you say, no, your bedroom's gonna be over here, and this is gonna be over here.

People need to think of it as a new house, not just, oh, I'm moving things around inside my little world.

It's hard to let go of how you do it now versus how it could be.

And it's funny, because in some ways, that's almost what I like best, is someone who's a little bit.

I shouldn't say set in their ways, but someone who's been living in the house long enough to know what really doesn't work.

Because then that can be the thing that I can glean and say, what is it that you hate about this house?

What do you love about this house?

So when I know those two things, I can then present something and say, remember that thing you hate?

I can get rid of that by doing this.

It's different.

But don't you want to get rid of this aspect of the health?

Brilliant.

Brilliant.

Yep.

Sometimes.

Not always.

Oh, no, I've had that.

I've had that with trying to do a remodel on something where I'm designing something out and, oh, there's something they hate, but they don't want to go outside the box far enough to get rid of it.

Yeah.

And that's always that tough part to try to navigate, that.

It's like finding a therapist.

There's some therapists that will just pat you on the back and say, oh, you poor thing.

Yes, you're a victim.

Oh, my.

And you don't really grow, but you are being placated.

In your situation, it's a lot harder to find somebody, and it's a lot more courageous to say, okay, what can I do to make my life better?

And whether it be having more gratitude in your life and your therapist is teaching you how to do that, or whether you have gratitude because you wake up and everything is where you want to be, and it's lovely and it's comfortable and it feels like home.

And I always say when I'm first meeting a client, I said, I really need to know what makes your life tick and what your lifestyle is, because I need to choreograph the spaces of this house to heighten what is your lifestyle.

Some people wake up and they want to brush their teeth.

Some people wake up and they have to go to the bathroom.

Some people have to check on their kids.

Some people want to go for a walk or a hike or a run or go to the gym, whichever is what you.

And that's just starting your day.

But I.

Every single one of those is a different house.

It absolutely is.

And that's the thing.

You have worked with so many A listers that we're not going to talk about all of them on the show by any means.

But it's no different.

What comes to mind by you telling that story is Frank Sinatra when you were working on his place and how he loved to entertain, how he loved to make people comfortable.

And that was many times based around.

The bar, many times giving him some grace.

But you're right.

Yeah.

You find out what everybody's secret sauce is.

People think, oh, how'd you come up with this?

This is so great.

And the answer is always, I did 753 stabs that were wrong and 74 is the one that finally clicked.

You just have to work at and you have to find the secret sauce and finding.

And it's.

It's multi dimensional.

It's who the client is, what they need and what they want and what they can afford.

Okay.

Then it's what either the property and.

Or the existing house is.

If you're remodeling.

Yep.

And then it's the lifestyle and getting all of those to match.

I hear a lot of people say, oh, I don't need an architect.

I've lived in a house all my life.

I know exactly what I want.

That's true.

Okay.

And you've been with your body all of your life.

But if you have an interesting pain or something, you've got a blotch that shows up.

Don't you see a doctor.

Correct.

Correct.

One of my funniest experiences as a designer is like, you had the 754 stabs at it.

I've had those 754 stabs at it.

And one of the funniest things to me is when we end up on a decision on a plan.

And it was stab number one because we just went completely full circle.

And I could pull out the drawing in my first iteration of that project and go, well, here it is right here.

And they go, you already drew it up.

And I go, oh, that was the first one we did.

How I had once walked in and said, oh, this is so clear.

This goes here, that goes there, this goes there.

And they said, oh, that makes sense.

And there was one part that said, can you do that?

I Had a garage that was 28ft from the house, and there was dirt in between.

And I just connected the two, and they were on different levels, but I was able to figure that.

And I said, look, I want to expand this and do that.

And that was the.

That's been the easiest job I ever did because I got it right the first time.

But I've never had the joy that you've had of going back to, hey, this is what I did at first.

My first stuff is always pretty bad.

It really is.

I do come.

I keep the stack and go and follow the rings and go back to where I started, and I'll look at those first designs, and that's when I really feel like I just.

How did I get licensed?

Ah, come on.

Every architect and designer, though, that feels that way.

After those first ones, after you've gone through and done that, I just had one of those where we had virtually.

It was that client.

We had virtually explored every single option.

And we had been fully circle around the world and had looked at almost everything.

And the contractor was laughing so hard because he was in the meetings with me.

And they came back and, well, I want to do this kitchen this color, with this way, with this door style, this color, this everything else.

I said, what do I want?

And I just sat there in my head and went, I got to look at this real quick.

And I just thumbed through my drawings, and I'm like, got it right here.

Yeah.

And then.

Looks familiar.

Yeah, exactly.

And that was one of the reasons why I started years ago when I did drawings, I started numbering them like you're supposed to, but I actually numbered them.

This is iteration 23 or 43.

But my AutoCAD files look different from any other offices I've ever seen, because I start the design and I put the date on it, and I have every single drawing on there.

Yep.

And then after like the first five or six stabs and it isn't working, I'll then put a new date on and erase the awful ones.

That's where I'll go back and look.

And then I'll just keep on going and keep on going and keep on going.

And.

And then when I finally get what works, then you redate that one.

That might be the 9th or 10th one that you do.

And then that becomes the one that then has all of the working drawings, and they're all there, including some of the old concepts.

And they might have a star with a note next to.

To it saying, the view works better here, but the flow Doesn't.

And so I'll come back to it.

And then maybe sometimes you come back something.

Why didn't I think of that?

I could put this here.

And now it works.

And that's when you get the secret sauce.

Well, here's what's funny.

Those first stabs where it isn't working, it's just because I often relate it to a juggler that's got a tennis ball, a golf ball, a bowling ball, a flaming bowling pin, and a spear.

And we all start with one ball and then get comfortable with that.

And then you throw in the second and the third and the fourth.

And it takes a while to get the rhythm to get all of them going.

You figure it out.

Once you get enough of those objects in the juggling to go in the rhythm, that now you can start putting everything together in a way that once.

It's so funny because it's so hard to get to that point, but once you get to that point, you could make a million different changes, and they still all fit.

Because now you know the secret code, so to speak.

Yeah, well.

And part of that is you're building the relationship between you and your client.

So you're learning to trust each other.

You're learning how to communicate.

You're learning what they can visualize and what they can't, and what they're trying to tell you but don't find the words to tell you no.

And if you have a good architect, they're also making sure that you can afford it.

Because here's the thing that the most troubling thing about my profession right now is twofold.

And it has to do with the condition that the economy has been in over the last 20 years.

And so many dips in the real estate market that people weren't building.

And architects started lowering their prices in order to get any commission.

Yep.

And that with now, at least in la, and I'm sure it's that way in a lot of other places.

There's so many, on one hand, amateur flippers that think this is a good way to make money.

And then two, there are these unbelievable resources that there's like.

There's about three companies here in Los Angeles, and they're flipping all over the place.

I don't know how they find the properties before they even go on the market.

I don't know how they get.

I know how they get their permits so fast.

But we won't get into that.

But all their projects look exactly the same, and they had the same crew doing the same thing.

Over and over again.

And now in Los Angeles, it takes a used to take a couple of months to get a permit.

Now it takes nine or more.

If you're on a hillside or a substandard street, it could take a year and a half.

And it's just them being really slow and bogged down and having 20 volumes of rules.

And so it's a lot harder to be an architect than it's ever been.

But so many people started lowering their prices.

That's now the standard.

And I am hearing this now so often, the architect is paid so little, they just do a box or they rush through the drawings and the floor plan doesn't exactly match what the elevations have, which don't exactly match the section.

And so there are all these problems in construction that nobody really looked at closely enough.

Now the builder has to fix it and they call the architect for clarification.

And he doesn't answer because he's too busy jamming those five other half price projects that they're doing at the same time.

And so I just lost the job because my fee that I presented, which was 25% of my standard fee, but I like the clients and I like the site, was still double the price.

And by the way, I didn't say 25% off.

It was 75% off and 25% of the fee.

I was double the price of the person that ended up winning.

And I know what's going to happen.

What you're paying for.

I get phone calls from clients afterwards saying, oh man, we told you that our budget was a million dollars.

And you said that what we were doing was too much for a million and we needed a million and three quarters to build it all.

And we didn't believe you.

We thought, your stuff is so beautiful, you get what you pay for.

We don't have to have it so pretty.

We need to save money.

So we saved 50,000 on an architect and we're framed.

And we're already at a million and a half.

And this thing will be at least two when we're done.

And we realize, I'll bet you could have done it for 1.75.

And I don't know where we're going to come up with this extra money.

And oh my, what do we do?

What can you do?

Yeah, you're stuck.

Those are things that I have run into that it's interesting.

And I can't tell you how many times I've done this.

Just in my world of kitchen and bath design, where you look at the project and go, wow, for what you're asking for, this is gonna be $140,000.

And it's the same thing.

I know you want the sub zero, you want the wolf, you want all this stuff.

But somebody else came in and told you they could do it for 65.

And I'm looking at the appliances going, well, that's your appliance package.

Thank you.

And then all of a sudden, yeah, then it just doesn't make sense.

And then halfway through the project, they fired people and they want to drag you back into it to do the job that you were going to do in the first place.

And they still wonder why.

It's more because now you have to undo all those bad mistakes that were done.

I won't even take those jobs.

I won't.

If you ask someone else and they go on a date and they say, you know what, you're too short, you don't make enough money, you don't have a nice enough car.

And then a year later they call you and say, you know what?

You are the nicest guy I've met in the last four years.

I think I need to drop that and come back to you.

And it's like, you know what?

If you had that thought at the beginning, you might have it again.

I don't.

How do I know that I can trust you to actually stick to your morals and virtues?

And it's not really moral.

It is.

And it isn't when you go in.

And I just think that any of those things like that are just bad decisions.

And when you get in the middle of this, those people that fight that battle of always looking for quality at the absolute cheapest price has gotten them where they are then.

And you're still going to fight hard.

Those tendencies trying to get the project finished because those bad decisions got them there all.

They didn't all of a sudden just wake up and say, I'm not making any more bad decisions.

You're still having to fight that battle through the rest of the project.

Even when you're coming in playing superhero.

It'S what kind of person are you?

For instance, the most popular restaurant in all of the world, I think is McDonald's.

And excuse me, but it's a tasteless, nutritionless, fast way to eat.

Well, I personally would rather, if I'm going to get a burger, I'd rather go to a mom and pop.

I mean, my favorite place in la, they hand grind their meat and it's more expensive than in n out, but it's always good.

You can always count on it.

And you come enough times, everybody working there, that's the kind of life that I prefer to live.

We live in a society that, especially since the pandemic, everybody's used to getting stuff from Amazon without even trying it on.

And you don't know that sofa that you're buying from Amazon.

You don't know how soft it is.

You don't know exactly what the depth is and if it's going to fit your particular body.

Okay.

You don't know a lot of these things.

I like to try things on, and I like to do it what I think is the right way.

It's certainly not the quick way, and it's not always the easiest way.

But haven't you found that.

I remember when my son was growing up, I would say to him, it's funny how often the easy way is the way that leads to disaster.

And the one that takes just a little more work and a little more thought is the one that will get you farther in the long run.

I don't think people look at the long run as much as they used to.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

Hey, guys, I wanted to take a moment and see if you can help David out.

Click on the link in the show notes for the GoFundMe campaign.

And even if it's five bucks, it makes a huge difference to getting David back up on his feet.

Now, let's get back to the conversation.

One of my questions I had for you, David, was what's it like working through the Hollywood egos?

And I'm not talking about any specific person.

You have helped build, design, you know, a lot of the who's who of Southern California and Hollywood.

What's it like navigating the stars of the egos and those kind of things and all of the pressures that get put on outside of what I would call a normal project, or is there one?

Wow.

Oh, I don't know if I have enough time to answer that question.

I'm going to say that quite often it's easier because they compartmentalize really well.

Nobody is better at knowing the proper roles of delegation than somebody who's been part of a successful operation.

I will tell you that if you wonder why a certain star that you used to like is no longer acting when you thought they were really good, and you'll find out that they're not great on a set is made of a team, that if everybody's not on the same page, if you've got a diva actor, it makes everything more difficult.

If You've got a grip who never shows up, they're gone.

Everybody there is forced to learn to get along and be a part of a group.

And so that makes it really easy.

Do you know what the hardest part of dealing with clients is more than anything else?

When you have a very successful.

If you have a couple and one of them is very successful and always busy and always taking meetings and always making deals, and then you've got their partner sitting around at home having lunch with their friends, they then see this as an opportunity to really get involved.

And they tend to over complicate things.

They'll come into your office and dump a plastic bag full of white color chips because you know how many shades of white there are and just say, I just can't make up my mind.

They all look good to me.

While somebody who's really busy will say, I like that one, and just move on.

Because I remember in architecture school we had a conversation, when do you know?

When you know, you're done with the floor plan and you can move on the way.

If you only work on the floor plan, you'll never be finished.

But if you take the floor plan and start seeing how that looks in elevation and in the section of the building, you will make changes in the floor plan that are meaningful because they relate to something else that's important.

If all you do is focus on one thing, you can never ever finish making a decision.

So it's funny, I'm trying to think of this.

I dealt with a lot of very big people and if they have an unbelievable ego, to be honest with you, I just won't take the job.

Quality of the client.

I never pick a job because, ooh, they're famous.

No, because you've got lots of clients and you and I have talked about a lot of the different names, but you've had a lot of great people.

But at the same point, some of them are famous, some aren't.

To me, you seem to be very project oriented.

Not people, as far as, what's the last name on the, you know, on the contract.

The only thing that, the thing that's really good about these people, sometimes famous people, sometimes they've been given so many golden tickets that they get the feeling I want this.

Is that possible?

And most people, we, you know, most of us live in a life where we're standing in line to pay for food at the grocery store.

Okay.

Yep.

And they hire people to go grocery shopping for them so they never have to worry about it.

So those of us that get A little more used to standing in line.

We can sometimes limit our own thinking.

You know, you did a house that has an Indiana Jones style rope bridge to take you to the game house.

And there's not a lot of clients that would say, I'd like an Indiana Jones style rope bridge.

I want a fireman's pole to go from the second floor down to the first just for fun.

You and I were talking about doing that into my hot tub, putting a fire pole under my hot tub.

And then you came out with about 100 good ideas for that.

So same kind of thing.

And so the point is, it's like.

And if you say, okay, I get it, but you can convince them out of it if it's not a good idea.

But if it's a good idea, why wouldn't you say if that's good?

Can you imagine having a house and showing your friends around and say, oh, and there's the fireman's pole.

And people will go, what?

Everybody's different.

I remember I did a house in Beverly Hills.

I was so young.

And it was a remodeling.

And we had this.

We were rearranging the kitchen, and there were like, this was an old home in Beverly Hills, and we were doing.

We're adding a second floor and doing a remodeling on the first.

And this client, she had bought this apothecabinet that we used as the island.

And so it allowed us to move some walls and we removed the walls.

We ended up with a.

With two pantries, a very close pantry.

The door was right there in the kitchen, and it was a normal size large pantry to put all your food stuff in.

And then we were able to make another pantry that quite honestly was 7 by 14ft, like the size of a lot of bedrooms.

And we filled it with shelves.

And this was a woman who entertained and threw parties of all kinds of sizes and all kinds of themes.

And we filled it with chafing dishes and pots and places to put tablecloths.

And I am telling you, every time she would show the house to friends, and I would be over quite a bit, whether it be for dinner or just to look at how things were going, or even in the middle of construction, she would show people around.

She would take the other wives into this other closet pantry, and I swear, 9 out of 10 would walk out of that room, look at their husband and say, if you loved me, you would give me a pantry like this.

Everybody's got something that is.

And this was the greatest source of pride of this woman was her pantry because it was something no one else had.

And she saw a need for it and she made it happen and she had it.

Yeah, yeah.

When this goes to, I hear a lot of people say, well, I'd like to do this, but it's not good for resale.

And my answer, because I've done this so many times, is not true.

Okay, if we didn't put it in, your house might be worth 2.5.

And you'll list it at 2.7 because that's.

You want to have a place to bargain from.

If somebody walks in and sees that thing that you love, that nine out of 10 people don't care about, but one out of 10 person, they will walk in and they will look at it and say, I don't care what it costs.

I need this house.

I've always wanted one of these.

I gotta have it.

And they're the king of the bidding war because now it's all emotion.

There we go.

And now they've said, you know what?

Everybody, everybody's going to come in with an offer at 2.5.

We'll make it 2 point.

We'll meet you.

We'll even make it 2.75, because we want this.

And now you're getting real value out of something that you enjoy.

Oh, my goodness.

I remember, I just read an article last week where Jay Leno had bought this house in.

I think it was in Maine, right on the water.

And he spent $12 million and.

Oh, my God, $12 million.

Well, it's 20 something thousand square feet.

It was built 100 and something years ago.

And a similar house in California, which is, you know, where he lives most of the time, would be $40 million.

Yeah.

And there it was only 10.

And it's where his family lives.

He said, this is the.

My philosophy in life is like, I own 700 cars, okay?

Some of them have gone up in value.

I don't care.

I buy what I love.

And if it goes down in value, I don't care.

I love it.

It's me who's driving it.

I'm not buying it to sell it.

I'm buying it to use it.

So you should get what you want.

And that's the thing.

And especially if you look at real estate prices right now, you could do what you want to it and it's still going to go up.

Right now you've been sharing on social media the last couple of weeks here, stuff on the market down in your area and sheesh, some of that stuff's crazy.

I complain about.

And it's all value.

I actually brought up, oh, my goodness, one and a quarter million dollars for a 90 year old house that's only 600 square feet with no view on Topanga, which is this major artery that goes from, goes through the mountains, from the valley in Los Angeles to basically Malibu.

That is a very busy fast street.

Yeah.

And so one person writes back goes, you have no idea the value of Malibu.

You can go from here, you can go from there.

It's like.

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

It's a lovely place and it's very bohemian.

It's right for some people.

And if you love it.

But we're talking about one and a quarter million dollars for 600 square feet.

Hundred.

Yeah.

And it's not a big enough lot to be able to do anything with that, if I remember correctly.

Yeah.

And that was my point.

And so if to this woman who is, She's a friend.

Okay.

Won't mention any names, she's a friend, but she's like, no, Topanga's great.

It's got all this hippie influence and there's all this music that happened there.

And you can go easily to the freeway, to the valley and easily to the beach.

Yeah.

But it's 20 minutes in either direction to each one of those.

And I'm not saying that it's not a pretty house.

I'm not saying it's not in a lovely location, but that just seems like a.

She would spend it.

I wouldn't.

That's.

That's the way it goes.

Everybody's different.

Yeah.

And that's the thing.

And everybody is different and everybody sees the value of what they value.

So you and I look at that and go, not a chance.

There's always somebody out there that goes, oh, that's perfect.

I want to be able to work and just jump in my car.

Go.

That's the reason why when you're in architecture school, they teach you how to be a modernist because it's too hard to learn the intricacies of classical designs.

If you're going to get into.

Do you put a dental or do you put a frieze?

Do you do.

Is it Greek?

Is it Roman?

There's a difference between the two.

How do you do it authentically?

They're really important conversations.

But most teachers at architecture school don't even know the answers to them.

And so we all are trained in modernism because that's just sculpture.

And you shouldn't say it's just sculpture.

That's a terrible Way to put it, but it gives the professors and the students a chance to debate the sculptural qualities of the forms without having to get into historical accuracy.

And so when I then became a professional, the second job that I got was working for a person who did nothing but traditional because I hadn't learned it and I needed to know it and I think.

And I needed a pallet because we're service professionals.

If you're going to be spending, Whether it be 100,000 or $10 million on a project, it's probably a lot of money to you, no matter what.

It's just your framework of what's a lot.

And so if you want Amish, if you're spending the money to hire me to do Amish, I'm going to give you the best damned Amish that you could get for the price.

And if you want French, if you want English, I'm going to be able to do that.

Oh, that just goes back.

That goes back to what we were saying before about everybody's got a different point of view and it's important to be able to have the tools to make those points of view come to life.

Oh yeah, it's funny, you and I are a lot of the same ways.

When I was, geez, 30, almost 30 years ago, I had worked for Home Depot for a year because they basically gave me an offer.

They were opening up all their stores here in the Northwest and they had gave me an offer and a contract that said we want you to work for us for a year to help get our kitchen design departments up and running.

And I signed a one year contract with them and I worked exactly one year to the day.

I just see you with your countdown calendar.

Oh yeah, it was.

Yep.

And nothing, no, no shade against those guys.

But it wasn't my gym.

But no.

More importantly though, what was fun was I left that to go work in downtown Seattle at the highest end kitchen and bath design firm that I had ever worked for and ever thought of working for.

And this was all just name brand Architectural Digest cabinet brands.

Oh yeah, the William O's, the Valkachines, all those guys.

And it was fun, but I wanted to put myself in that other situation that I had not learned and that was where I jumped into that high end design.

And it was fun.

But look at you.

You needed all of those hours of doing every kind of kitchen Imaginable to then go to the big leagues and work on these super expensive ones and still make them work.

Because that's.

It's amazing how many times we will see something like a bathroom or kitchen.

It's so funny how many times I'll go into a kitchen and I'll think, what would Eric say about this?

Because there's so much wasted space and so many ridiculous doodads that have nothing to do with actually cooking.

Yep.

And it's.

And sometimes it's form over function, which is also bad.

So it's.

I mean, you look.

You and I are both friends with the Blaze.

Caroline Blazowski.

Oh, yeah.

And she's looking for house.

And so every now and then she'll get in touch.

What do you think about this house?

What do you think about this house?

And it's hard because you look at that.

Boy, that bathroom is such a waste of space.

Yep.

Oh, I can't believe what they did there.

Or she's looking at one right now.

That it's like, this is a passive solar house.

And so I look at the picture, she goes, oh, and David, it's passive solar.

And I said, yeah, how.

What about it is passive solar?

Yeah, there's a greenhouse, but the greenhouse has a carpeted floor.

It can't absorb the heat.

Yeah.

What's it going to do?

Yeah, there's Sheetrock walls with two built with two by fours or two by sixes maybe.

There's a lot of insulation, but there's no solar panels.

I don't see any kind of mechanism to make sure that the breeze is going through in a way that creates a Venturi effect.

And it's funny.

People will use words but not follow through.

Very true, very true.

And shooting back here at my experience that I learned so much with the one funny.

And I'll just wrap up that thought real quick.

My.

I learned my best lesson because it happened to me and it was a fairly famous celebrity.

So somebody pulls up in this old nineteen early fifties pickup truck that has fairly original paint.

If I remember right, there was a door on the side that was a different color.

Like it was a red truck with a yellow door.

I gets out in overalls, walks into our very.

I mean, I'm wearing a suit.

It was a full on suit wearing kind of place.

Can we stop for a moment?

Yep.

And imagine our good friend Eric G.

In a suit with a tie.

Yep, there we go.

Okay, I've had that moment.

I hope everybody else has enjoyed that lovely trip down Imagination Lane.

Please Continue.

So I'm in my suit and tie.

He walks in and this other person goes, oh, you want to get the farmer?

And I'm like, oh, I got it.

No problem.

Walks up, I'm like, Mr.

Skerritt, what can I do to help you today?

Thanks for coming in.

It's Tom Skerritt.

Okay.

My only comment is I pumped gas next to him once.

Nice, wonderful man.

Wonderful man.

He's a really nice guy.

Yep, wonderful man.

I would have loved to have done his kitchen.

So I got to do his powder room.

So that was fun.

So got to do his powder room.

We did a cool little glass vessel our team did.

It was fun.

So I did a lot of drawings of.

Of hand drafting of his powder room over and over again.

But he was a great.

Yep, the farmer's powder room.

So it was fun.

It was a cool project.

But that was one of those that.

That I learned to never.

And again, I knew who it was coming in.

I saw him, I was like, oh, wow, this is weird.

Everybody else, nobody else grabbed.

Figured out who he was walking in to me, I was like, ding.

I know who that is.

This is impressive.

And you just never judge that book by its cover because it's going to be shocking.

And it ties back into your.

We're driving the wrong.

Driving the Blazer up to the.

Up to the client's house.

And seems to be actually very upset with her.

Because I'm thinking you should never judge a book by its cover.

How dare you.

I actually said that.

I said, well, I'm a little hurt that you didn't.

That you didn't pay attention to my words and my ideas.

And my car colored it.

And she said, david, I'm only telling you this because this is Los Angeles and believe it or not, it matters.

A contractor should probably show up in a beat up truck.

So that way the client thinks really shave their prices.

Yep.

Okay.

They may drive a Cadillac at home.

Okay.

But to the work they bring a beat up truck says, but you as an architect, we've got to think that you're successful, that you make lots of money, that everybody wants you, and everybody's paying top dollar.

And the way that you do that is you drive a nice car.

So I actually spent a week talking to all of my friends, and they all eventually agreed with her.

And the next day I bought a BMW 5 Series because I thought that might make a difference.

Sad you have to do that.

But I agree.

I like cars like Jay Leno does.

I don't have 700 cars.

But I love cars and I have been judged that way for driving too expensive of a car rolling up.

And they go, oh, I'm not sure if we can afford you.

Right.

Yeah, I would.

The patina of the original paint.

Oh, that would be phenomenal.

Look, there's.

I would love to have an old truck.

Oh, and his wife was driving a 10 year old Volvo wagon.

Look, we live in such a throwaway society.

I want to build the kind of house that nobody needs to remodel.

Eric knows me and we've been talking about a house that I put an offer on which is actually in the neighborhood.

It is a mile and a half from the very first house I designed when I went on my own.

Okay.

And these clients are now in their 70s and we were in touch.

They say, there's nothing we want to change in the house.

We love it just the way that it is.

Just a little paint here, maybe replace the refrigerator, the dishwasher, but change the cabinets a little bit in the kitchen.

But that's.

They love it.

This was a big time TV writer who's what they call a showrunner.

He produces and runs several shows that have been on network television.

So he had, you know, a lot of money.

And what they would do is when their kids were little, when I first did.

So funny.

Their kids are.

Yeah, but they were tiny little kids when we first, when we're first working together.

And they would once a month go to the Bel Air Hotel and have a weekend, a romantic weekend, just the two of them.

Okay.

And have their parents, one of their sets of parents, you know, come and stay in the house and take care of the kids.

When we finished the design, they made the kids go to their grandparents house and they just stayed.

The guy said, you are saving thousands of dollars a month because we're just staying at the home and just ordering in the most expensive food and just lighting candles and having a very romantic time in the house.

That is the compliment, that is what you want your clients to be enjoying.

Yeah.

And it's funny, you, I've looked at some of your places like this.

Last year, Elon Musk's house that he sold made the news because he was getting out of California.

And that was a house that you originally had done the design work on, if I remember correctly.

And those, those projects have been remarkably timeless, stunning work, man.

And I just not saying that as your friend, but just professionally beautiful stuff that with maintenance you can't tell when that building was built because it just has that classic architecture to it that's beautiful and makes sense and is balanced where it needs to be.

Well, and what's so funny is the pictures that you've been looking at recently because I've been revisiting three different jobs that I did as as long as 30 years ago and as recently as 15 years ago.

And one is modern and two is, two are traditional, one's more Italian and one's more English.

And I'd like to think that each one of them, and I think they are, I just don't want to be arrogant about it because I'm always trying to get better, but I hope they're timeless.

I had a professor in architecture school who we did a project and was all over with.

I was walking out and he saw me and said, why are you looking so glum?

And I said, oh, now that we did the presentation, I should have moved the door here.

I could have made this part a little bit taller.

And he looked at me and he said, david, it's called the practice of architecture because you never get it right.

You just get closer to perfection each time with what you learn.

Which of course, then again, that goes back to what this started out is that's why you hire an architect or that's why you hire a good architect.

Hire a good architect who is not going to make you one of 50 projects that he's rushing through.

But look, my practice, when my ex wife became pregnant, I had just had a conversation with Frank Gehry about a mutual friend of ours who had passed away at 50.

And he said, this is how architecture works.

You're 20, you work for slave wages.

And when you're in your 30s, you then start making a little bit more money, but you're still, you're peon.

And then if you're lucky in your 40s, you go out on your own and you go back to making no money at all.

And at your 50s is when you start realizing who you are and what your statements can be.

You start getting really good at it.

And it's your 60s are when you start getting busy.

And he said, our friend who's also whose name was Frank said he was 50.

He was just getting to the point where we're going to see how good he really could be.

And we lost him.

So I was in that same situation in that I was now in my 30s and I went on my own earlier.

I had trouble.

I just, I like being my own boss.

So I had an opportunity.

And I took it, and I was working, and I was doing what you normally do.

You work on your own.

You work on the side when you got a job, and then you work on your own.

And then if you're lucky, you get enough work that you can hire another person to help you.

And if you get more work, then you hire two more people.

So you end up with a pretty decently sized office.

Well, I had four employees, and some interesting things happened.

I had one employee totally messed up and had to get rid of her.

And then it was like, oh, my goodness.

And then I started doing more of the work myself.

Instead of delegating.

I had to fix what was wrong, and I had so much fun.

And then all of a sudden, like I said, we became pregnant as a family.

And I thought, I really want to be there more.

So I did the opposite.

I made my office smaller.

I only had one person.

I took on half as much work.

And made more money.

Really good clients, and I had more fun.

And yes, believe it or not, I made more money because I was actually paying myself as the boss and as one of the employees.

It's still.

I take less money than either of my brothers and a lot of my friends that I went to college with.

But that's okay, because my brother, who makes the most money, it's all mergers and acquisitions.

It's all numbers.

How much is this worth in the company?

How much is that worth in the company?

When you and I are done, we actually build something.

Yeah.

There's something to show for it.

Something physical that's there for maybe generations.

Yeah.

I've got kids doing homework on the.

On the bar counter while mom is cooking dinner.

And that gives me a great amount of joy that this kid is being nurtured in something that I created to make that person as comfortable and receptive to good things as possible.

Amazing.

It looks like you've got a couple projects that are just coming out of the ground or at least going to start moving dirt on here pretty quick.

It looks like things are cruising again for you.

Thank.

Good.

You know, Covid, it's amazing that my project in Houston, believe it or not, Houston had the best.

COVID protocol.

Put that together.

It's a protocol.

Yep.

So Houston had.

Because they were wanting to go online years before, and so they started working and that direction, and.

And so they were ready to do things online, and they just sped it up a little bit.

Beverly Hills, you have to use Flash, which isn't even available anymore, to use to utilize their portal.

And that makes it very difficult.

So I've had a couple of projects that just.

The permit process.

The poor clients are just pulling their hair out because you have to be so patient.

My job in Beverly Hills, again, not that big.

Should have taken three months, six months at the most to get a permit.

It took 11.

Wow.

I got it on Thursday.

I still haven't been given a price when it.

Actually, I'm checking my computer right now, but I haven't gotten the price for the permit, so that we can then.

Still haven't gotten it.

Hey, guys, I wanted to take a moment and see if you can help David out.

Click on the link in the show notes for the GoFundMe campaign.

And even if it's five bucks, it makes a huge, huge difference to getting David back up on his feet.

Now let's get back to the conversation.

Wow.

Still haven't gotten it.

And the client, like, calls.

Have you had your meeting yet?

Have you had your meeting yet?

Nope.

Nope.

No.

But yeah.

So anyway, got two permits and a supplemental permit on another one to make a flight change.

And they're all greenlit, so we'll do.

To me, I love designing, but I love the building process.

I love watching it, because it all starts as an idea on a blank piece of paper.

And when you're done, you've got something you walk into and you feel something, and then you go from room to room and you're.

You're fed or you sleep or you go to the bathroom or have a drink or whatever, and it's just.

It's like magic.

I don't know how to describe how content it makes one feel to have.

Have your client walk around with you, and then you just see their eyes filled with tears of joy that they're moving into this dream come true.

Oh, it's the best.

Amen, brother.

Amen.

That's the part that I used to love the most, is you get through the whole process.

And I would go.

They'd get moved into the kitchen, or they get moved into the house, what they're doing.

And I'd go in there a couple weeks later and just do a walkthrough with them.

And after they moved in, after the dust has settled, and that was always the funnest part of the entire project for me, was seeing them use it.

And then naturally, them talking about the things that they loved the most.

And they were maybe not the things that I thought they would love the most.

Right.

Yeah.

Isn't it amazing how, like, two weeks later they'll Say, you know what I realized about this house?

Yep.

When you wake up in the morning and you wash your face and you turn to get a towel, you put this window where I can see the tops of the mountains and the sun coming up.

And it makes me think today is a new day to do something brilliant.

I never thought they would do that.

Of course not.

But boy, did it make them happy.

And that's why you and I have both loved what we've been doing for so long.

And that's the art of design right there.

Funny you don't think about it.

We think that we're in the building business, but we're really in the people business.

It's one of the reasons why I don't prefer I do it if it's special, but I don't prefer to do commercial.

To me, commercial is, let's see how many eggs we can fit in this crate.

Let's make all this for this low a price.

Yeah, they just, they don't care.

Like, the thing I don't like about a high rise is, yes, you fit a lot of office space per square foot of land.

But where's the human interaction?

Where is the inspiration to do a better job?

Where is a place to make sure that somebody, that one of your employees, that you're planting that seed in them grows?

It isn't really celebrated in a commercial space the way that it is and in a home.

Now, I've done several record companies because that's a place where they are interested in human experience.

When I did Quincy Jones's offices, he looked at me and he said, there's only.

Because we were talking about needs and this, he said, there's only one thing I need.

You must put a piano somewhere in this space.

Because every year he says, I have a deal with Ray Charles that we sign a contract every year.

It's always a one year deal.

And when he.

Because Ray was like his first friend in the music business, he said, so when Ray comes in to sign the contract, we jam and he sits at the piano and spends at least an hour playing for all of us.

And I not let that happen.

So that became the center of the entire experience was Rachel.

It was empty most of the time.

Everybody knew sometime within the next year Ray Charles was coming in and he was going to play.

Fun fact.

One of my little brothers played with Ray Charles on his last.

Played saxophone for Ray Charles on his last tour up and down the East Coast.

So, yeah, love Ray Charles.

That is special.

Yeah, that is special.

Yeah.

And I Got to hear him play once and it was.

That's.

We've all.

We all love music, we all love live music and we all love our stars.

But man, when you are that up close and personal and when he's chit chatting, you know, and especially when Q is saying, why don't you play that in the KV instead, they look at each other and they smirk and then they play and it's magic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've had a few musician things like that from legends before.

Buddy Guy ended up at his blues club one night and got to meet him, and it was just a Wednesday night in Chicago and he ended up sitting at the table with us, ordering drinks, popping up on stage, playing, coming back down, and got to really spend some time with that guy and talk about another amazing human.

Amazing human.

And then it was just one of those moments that.

And then every time he comes to town, I've gotten to know his.

His keyboard player.

And so whenever he comes to Portland, I try to meet up there.

And we've met up and went out for drinks afterwards or we'll meet up someplace and it's just fun stuff.

And I just love that classic American musician that has made such a mark on so many millions of people.

And see, here's the thing that you and I and most of the people that are listening have a chance to do, which is create something that becomes your own stage, becomes your own ability to do what you love to do in your life.

At least it should be everybody's home.

There should be something in the home that gives them rest.

There should be someplace in the home that gives them inspiration, and there should be some place that gives them comfort and someplace that gives them nourishment.

And when you meet all of those, you're creating a home.

You're not building a house.

You're creating exactly.

On that note, David Applebaum, thanks for coming on today.

We're running out of time.

Are we done already?

Yeah, it's been an hour, man.

We've been killing it.

Did we talk about anything important or informative?

We always do.

I hope so.

I hope we did.

Thanks for coming on today, my friend.

Dude, it is always a treat to talk to you.

You are a kindred spirit.

You are the kind of guy who really wants the whole world to be in a better place.

And you figured out a way to do that.

And love.

You're so good at what you do.

You give so much information.

You make it so easy to consume and so fun and to be a part of that in even a little way is such an honor, and you be your friend.

An honor to.

Same here, man.

Same here.

I love what you're doing.

I love hanging out.

And as everybody else knows out there, if they see on my social stuff, we're chatting all the time.

All right, brother.

A lot of what we say to each other.

Seriously, though, everybody.

No, no, not just exactly.

There's a little snark in a lot of our comments back and forth.

Rightfully so.

Because we're having a good time.

A little.

Yeah.

Let's leave it at a little.

All right, brother.

Have a great day.

Thanks again.

Thank you.

Okay.

Goodbye, everybody.

Hey, go out there and make it a good day.

Okay.

Hey, guys, I wanted to take a moment and see if you can help David out.

Click on the link in the show notes for the GoFundMe campaign, and even if it's five bucks, it makes a huge difference to getting David back up on his feet.

I'm Eric G.

Thanks for tuning in to around the House.