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Slingin’ it: Sling TV & Dish Network’s Jinx Joglekar
Episode 1517th October 2024 • Snap Decisions • Brian Marks & John Young
00:00:00 00:45:59

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We often talk about the wonderfully wacky world of TV and media. Right in the middle of it all is Jinx Joglekar, who is responsible for acquiring customers for not just one but TWO TV brands: streaming subscribers for Sling TV and traditional pay TV subscribers for Dish Network. (Yes, TV providers call us all “subs.”) Leading off, John and Brian share good barroom trivia about common product names that are/were actually trademarked brands. Note: this episode was recorded shortly before DirecTV announced long-anticipated plans to purchase Dish Network/Sling.

Key topics & chapter markers 

(00:25): The demise of the Tupperware brand

(02:13): Brands that have become generics

(08:48): Meet Jinx Joglekar

(10:51): Finding the right targets, the right media, and the right offering

(15:17): Managing churn and positioning in the era of cord-cutting and switching

(21:50): Rewarding customers for watching TV

(30:08): Marketing TV is fun!

(33:08): Jinx has a patent. No, TWO patents

(37:34): Leadership lessons for large teams

(39:49): From physics and music to marketing: a career spent saying “yes”

Background content

Tupperware going bankrupt - Fast Company

WTF is a mimeograph machine? - How Stuff Works

DirectTV merging with Dish Network - Variety

Sling TV’s recent campaign - YouTube

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

Transcripts

John:

John, welcome back.

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I know already.

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Look at us.

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Call it a trend.

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Brian: We're really doing it again

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John: without a big gap back.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well we have a great episode today.

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Really looking forward to talking to our

guests, who I, I feel like a lot of people

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relate to and want to hear more about.

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But before we get started on that I

wanted to ask you your thoughts on

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the demise of The Tupperware brand.

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John: Ah, yes.

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The long tenured Tupperware brand.

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Brian: Yes.

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Tupperware , has gone bankrupt.

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And yeah, there's a number

of reasons for that.

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According to what I'm reading one of which

is their reliance on, Direct sales up

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until the last couple of years where they

finally started an e commerce program.

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Yeah, I saw

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John: that.

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I didn't realize that, I didn't realize

they were solely door to door, you know,

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through, through Tupperware parties

and up until like:

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Brian: 2020, yeah.

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2020, yeah.

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Which is Wild crazy.

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I mean, talk about like, not trying

to pivot and just staying with

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what they got until it goes down.

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But, fascinating stuff.

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What really I found interesting

is, the conversation around, brands

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like Tupperware that actually

become the names of the categories.

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John: Oh yeah.

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When they get, genericized.

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Yeah.

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Brian: Yeah.

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And, what are your thoughts on that?

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John: I read an article about that and

I thought it was really interesting.

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They called it out that some of the

savvier brands go way out of their

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way to make sure not to use their

words, their brand names as no.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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So it's Kleenex tissue.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: It's a Q tip cotton swab.

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They don't genericize it themselves.

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And I was amazed to read that

both Google and is it Kimberly

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Clark that owns Kleenex?

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That they both have actually

engaged in legal battles to keep

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their, their brands out of the

dictionary for that very reason.

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Brian: That's amazing.

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Good luck with that though.

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I mean, yeah,

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John: yeah.

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I

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Brian: The Q-tip one who calls

that anything else other than that?

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John: And who searches on

anything besides Google?

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Brian: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, I found some really interesting

other brand names that have become

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the category name over the years.

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So I thought I'd share

some and let's hear it.

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Yeah.

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So a Ziploc chapstick.

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John: Oh,

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Brian: people,

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John: people use chapstick generically.

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I don't think I was aware of that.

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Brian: Really?

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What I guess

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John: I don't walk around saying,

can you hand me some lip balm?

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I usually put me.

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Don't say that.

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Brian: No, they don't.

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Bandaid

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John: bandaid, classic

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Brian: jacuzzi.

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I guess a lot of people still

use hot tub, but there, there's a

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generalized, yes, we knew about jacuzzi.

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Crockpot.

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John: Oh, I did not know that.

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Let me guess, Betty Crocker?

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Brian: No, crockpot.

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John: But like, who, it's

just a standalone brand?

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: Oh, interesting.

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I had no idea.

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I thought that was a generic.

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Brian: You thought that was the product?

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Yeah.

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Aspirin?

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John: I knew that.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Not

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John: everywhere.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: Not in the U.

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S., but other places.

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I did know that.

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Brian: Bubble wrap.

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John: What?

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Brian: Yeah.

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That was a surprise to me.

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Velcro.

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Makes sense.

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Here's an interesting one.

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Escalator.

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John: Escalator.

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I knew about escalator.

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By the way, I love this stuff.

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So, I know some.

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Brian: Okay.

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Escalator is

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John: Otis.

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That's the elevator company.

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Yeah.

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Jetski.

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Makes sense.

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Didn't know, but

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Brian: would have guessed.

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Laundromat.

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John: Oh, damn!

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You have my favorite.

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Brian: Oh, that was yours.

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John: Oh, I love that one.

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Yeah.

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Westinghouse owned that for years.

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I did

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Brian: not know

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John: that.

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You know when they stopped?

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When they abandoned their trademark?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Brian: Now when?

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John: When they stopped

making washing machines.

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Brian: Oh.

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John: They, they created the first,

I think, automatic washing machine,

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maybe the first automatic wall

mounted or whatever, but they, the

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whole coin op thing started with

a Westinghouse brand laundromat.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: By the way, here's, here's, here's

something you probably don't know.

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There's another name for laundromat.

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Not very common.

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I think it's used in Texas.

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Oh, a washateria

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Brian: A washateria?.

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John: Surprisingly that didn't

take that didn't catch on.

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The rest of the country.

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Yeah.

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Brian: It sounds like it sounds terrible.

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John: Yeah,

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Brian: I went down a little rattle on

some of these and I was really surprised

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to hear well, not surprised, but, you

know, just the fact that these companies,

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you know, the trademark, they trademark

these things and it helps buy them

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time for all the research and, and time

they've put into building these products.

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But then once they wear

off it really just.

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It opens the door for more fair

competition, but the public

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doesn't really know anything else.

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A couple more I got and then we'll get

to our guests, but thermos didn't know.

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And Rollerblade.

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Did no.

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Oh, you did?

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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John: Can I share some of mine with you?

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Brian: I would love to

hear what else you got.

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John: You already used my

favorite example of laundromat.

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You skipped the most obvious in my mind.

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Xerox.

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Brian: Xerox is a good one.

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Yeah.

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John: Yeah.

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Now, if any of our listeners are

under 30, they don't know what we're

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talking about, but Xerox and a

mimeograph, I think I'm not mistaken.

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What is that?

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Mimeograph.

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Do you know what a mimeograph is?

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Brian: No, I do not.

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John: Oh,

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Brian: Jesus.

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All right.

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Nevermind.

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I need to know more about that.

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What is the meaning?

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John: Okay.

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Before there was Xerox, there was

machine and, and I remember schools

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and offices that made copies.

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Called a mimeograph machine and

paper rolled across this purple ink

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and it would come out and it would

still be a little wet and smeary

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and it had a very polarizing scent.

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Some people loved it.

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Some people were disgusted by it.

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Brian: Wow.

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School in the 1870s.

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Who knew?

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John: Yeah, right?

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Yeah.

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We mimeographed right after we finished

writing on the back of our shovels.

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Alright, I got another one for you.

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Alright, bring it.

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Teleprompter.

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Brian: Oh, interesting.

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John: Yeah,

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Brian: it's become

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John: genericized.

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Brian: And Post it notes, too.

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John: Well, yeah, that I think, yeah.

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Alright, good stuff.

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Alright.

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Love a genericized brand name.

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It seems like the ultimate

symbol of success, right?

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You've arrived.

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Oh my god, everyone calls it Band

Aid, but it's actually a little

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bit of a problem for these brands.

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Brian: Yeah, I think it's definitely

a sign of success when you conquer the

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market like that, but in the long run, it

could, could end up hurting you, but might

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as well shoot for that in the beginning

and then deal with the problem later.

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I

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John: guess as long as you're susceptible

to cheap knockoffs, it's going to happen.

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Brian: For sure.

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For sure.

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John: All right.

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Shall we move on and talk to our guest?

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Brian: Let's get into it.

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John: All right.

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I am happy to introduce a savvy

marketer and an all around

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terrific guy, Jinx Joglekar.

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He leads marketing for both Dish Network

and Sling TV, making him responsible for

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driving growth and engagement for millions

of customers who are cutting the cord.

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He's responsible for all the acquisition,

the media, e commerce, including

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advertising, digital marketing,

marketing technology, and digital sales.

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Before he joined Sling in 2022, he led

e commerce for the Xfinity brand under

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the Comcast NBC Universal umbrella,

leading digital sales and merchandising

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for TV, high speed internet, and mobile.

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Prior to that, he led an innovation

team at JP Morgan Chase, creating

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unique digital experiences, including

the freedom mobile app outside of work.

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He plays drums in his basement studio.

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He apparently has learned guitar, piano,

bass, and the ukulele for his daughter.

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He's got great marketing skills.

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He loves good food.

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And I think he's falling for his

relatively new home state of Colorado.

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And he has one of the all time best

most contagious laughs, please.

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Welcome, Jinx.

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Brian: Welcome to the show.

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Jinx: Thanks for having me guys.

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It's

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John: How about that intro?

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Jinx: It was great.

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John: If we don't make you laugh

we've failed because I just said

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it's the most contagious one.

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Jinx: I mean, it's contagious,

but also it's reflexive for me.

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So yeah, you will, you'll be fine.

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John: So, Brian, you're going

to need to be funny, okay?

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Brian: I'll do my best.

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John: Alright.

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Alright, first, Jinx, can you

explain your role and how you head

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up marketing for two very different

brands, Dish Network and Sling?

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And then a little bit like, you

know, what challenges come with

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juggling those responsibilities?

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Jinx: Sure.

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So my role at Echo Star, formerly

known as DISH, we had a merger last

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year with a sister company, Echo

Star, that does mobile internet, is

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I I lead up acquisition marketing

for the video services vertical.

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So that encompasses DISH and

Sling as our two main products.

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And what I'm focused on really is.

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How we drive high quality subs into

our ecosystem of video services.

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So what does that mean?

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Well, I own the offer strategy

and how we go to market, what

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those go to market moments are.

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In the video space I also in the media

budgets and, and channel management,

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I own all of our digital sales flows,

our e commerce flows, and then all of

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our marketing analytics and the, what I

call like the last mile from a customer

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strategy and media to acquisition.

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. So all the things you'd think about

when you're thinking about acquiring

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John: And going back real quick for

those who don't know subs in this case

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means subscribers, not sandwiches.

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Subscribers.

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Jinx: That's right.

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And if I ever say RGUs

then, then John translate

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John: will, we'll flag you on

revenue generating units too,

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which, which customer doesn't

want to refer to as an RGU.

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Jinx: It's, it's the most marketing

customer centric, friendly

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way to describe subscribers.

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John: Exactly.

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Alright, so you're selling video

products for, you know, if I'm a

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consumer, you could be marketing

one of two different video services

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to me, Dish Network and Sling.

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How's that work?

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Jinx: yeah, so for me, it's

actually really, really fun.

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I started here about two

and a half years ago.

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And was hired when I moved from

Comcast where I met you, John over

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to run the marketing for Sling,

which was, you know, the acquisition

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component, but also the brand and the,

and the life cycle retention piece.

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Once we kind of brought ourselves

together as video services, we broke

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that up with some key marketing leaders

could have broke up those functions

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because they're just such big brands

that need that much dedicated focus.

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And, and so for me, it's,

like I said, it's really fun.

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I get to think about.

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Really two distinct products, right?

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You have satellite television with

dish, you have linear streaming

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with Sling and really think about

how do I market those products?

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How do I go to market with those

products and how do I acquire customers

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into those products that have very

different experience of the customer,

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very different jobs to be done with the

customer and very different needs states.

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And so that to me, my, most of my

time is thinking about how do I,

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segment my addressable market for

those so that I'm really relevant

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using the right media, delivering

the right offer at the right place at

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the right time to drive a customer.

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John: You're talking Brian's language.

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Hmm.

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Brian: so how are you defining

quality for, for both those brands

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and, you know, where are you having

success kind of finding those people

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Jinx: Yeah, I mean, for us, the quality

sub it, it's a little, it's a little

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bit different in, in each one, but,

but in the end of the day, it's someone

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that Loves to watch TV and wants to

continue watching TV with our service

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and and finds value in the, in the great

features we have, whether on the dish

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side, it's the hopper and the ability

to aggregate your, your linear feeds

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with your streaming on the sling side.

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It's, it's the great video quality

ability to watch it on the go.

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The new product enhancements

we've had like rewards and sports

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scores and things like that.

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So but, but really quality means.

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A sub that loves tv is gonna be with us

a long time that Likes our product likes

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our offering and we don't go and and

play maybe the game of a couple years ago

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Which is like all out growth and spend

to get as many subscribers as possible.

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Brian: And churn is through the roof?

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Yeah.

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Jinx: yeah, right and and and have have

high churn and so you know, I think if

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you, if you see some of the, the reports

we've had lately, you see that, the

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benefit of that, particularly what we're

doing on the dish side, and it's really

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been great to, to leverage some of the

knowledge we've had on that side and

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bring it to the sling side where, as you

know, I mean, you guys see the streaming

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reports where churn is high and we're,

we're starting to buck that trend.

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So that's kind of cool.

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Brian: Right.

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John: So when you're on that quest to

find quality subscribers for either

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dish or sling is, do you ever find

the circumstance where the brands

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are competing for the same customers?

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Jinx: Actually, no, we, the beautiful

part about having it all in one shop

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is the ability for us to stratify

where we spend our marketing dollar.

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And as you guys will know, if I'm

spending a dollar for each brand

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competing against each other, both

brands are going to be inefficient.

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And so we do, we spend a lot

of time saying, well, here's

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the segment and the target.

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That's really the right fit for sling.

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Here's the right segment

and target story for dish.

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Let's not overlap.

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Let's, let's not spray and

pray and try to get everybody.

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But again, really have hyper

targeted tactics and channel

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strategies to go acquire them,

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Brian: How often are you

Coming out with new offers.

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Jinx: It's interesting, you know, on

the dish side, it's, probably, , once

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every quarter, once every half a year,

it's a more static process and that's.

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You know, again, we go in with a low price

that, you know, two year price commitment.

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There's not a lot of change and

that's kind of, but that's actually

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what the customer wants, right?

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They want their content at the best price.

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On the sling side.

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We're, we're a little more fluid.

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We're a little more dynamic because

a, we have the technology to do it.

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And B that's what the

customer wants, right?

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In certain.

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In certain moments, it's about you know,

doing a monthly offer because that's what

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the customer wants in certain moments.

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It's about doing a prepaid

offer like we did for football.

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Where we've actually got a fixed price

that you, you do for the football season.

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You pay one low price and you get all

of that content throughout your season.

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And then when you're done, you know,

we, we want you to stick around.

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We want you to go and, and.

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Take another offer and keep keep with

us, but if you don't actually what

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we launched on sling last year is

Our fast service free ad supported

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television, which is called free stream.

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So even if you don't want to Pay for sling

we we still offer a value on sling to the

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to those customers They give you great

free content Give you a reason to watch

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and then when you're ready to resubscribe

make it easy to do that in one click

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Brian: That's cool.

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Are you seeing traction with that?

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Jinx: Yeah, we're, we're seeing great

traction with folks that are coming into

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free to discover Sling and understand

the UI, understand what's in the product.

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We also are seeing great traction with

people that are Paid subscribers that

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don't want to pay for content for that

time that go into free stream, watch that.

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It's great content.

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And then, you know, resubscribe when

they're ready when their favorite show

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comes on or, or a season comes on.

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, John: it's interesting, you know,

Brian touched on the idea of churn

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earlier, earlier in the category, you

know, there's always been switchers.

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Take people jumping from

one offer to the next.

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Do you find that a lot of the folks

coming in to Sling are coming from

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other streaming services or are they,

are they disconnecting from cable?

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Jinx: Yeah, it's, it's a mix actually.

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I think you know, I can't share all

the, all the facts with you, but

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I will say, you know, when sling

launched, obviously in:

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a mass starting to be a mass access

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John: Mm hmm.

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Jinx: traditional pay TV,

cable providers, et cetera.

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I think what you're seeing now is

because That's cord cutting has happened.

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There's a lot of movement

between those services.

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And what we find is on sling, because

we still have the value proposition

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of being able to pick your pack, you

know, not having to buy a full cable

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replacement and being better on the

wallet, you'll see people that are

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coming from, you know, your YouTube

TVs, your Hulu lives that are.

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John: Got it.

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Jinx: Basically a cable replacement

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John: Mm hmm.

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Jinx: coming to us for, for even

more content that they want to

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watch at the price they want.

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,

John: we always like to talk about how brands position themselves in the world.

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And hearing you talk, it's, it seems like

the, the positioning for Sling is, you

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:

know, the, the, the lighter package of

content you want for a lower price, right?

410

:

How do you position DISH?

411

:

Can you kind of draw the distinction

between how you position those two brands?

412

:

Jinx: Yeah, I think.

413

:

So yeah, I think you're right on

saying, and we've done a lot of work

414

:

on this from from a brand perspective,

you know, I, I joke with with, with

415

:

John, I've joked about is like,

you know, I'm the acquisition guy.

416

:

So there's a thing that I'm, that I'm

responsible for, but, you know, Brand

417

:

and acquisition and performance and all

it's, it's meaningless delineations,

418

:

honestly, because you have to have

an awesome brand value statement.

419

:

That'll drive to awesome channel

strategies that will drive to

420

:

awesome, creative and awesome

digital sales experiences.

421

:

And that's like the virtuous

cycle that actually acquires subs.

422

:

And then quite frankly, retains

them and finds the quality ones.

423

:

So, so we've spent collectively a

lot of time thinking about it and,

424

:

and the way to think about it is.

425

:

On sling and and you you'll start to

see if you haven't already seen some

426

:

of this creative in market, which

is we call it sling lets you do that

427

:

that's the campaign and it's You

know, it's it's it's really great.

428

:

It's really eye catching and

Leverages this repetitive statement

429

:

of something that you do that,

but it's like can I watch the tv?

430

:

I want Sling lets you do that.

431

:

Can I watch the tv?

432

:

I want at the price I want Sling

lets you do that, can I cancel

433

:

when I want Sling lets you do that?

434

:

Can I cancel I watch free?

435

:

Stuff so I don't have to pay, can I?

436

:

Sling lets you do, can I get rewarded?

437

:

So as you do that, and you can see how

that thread goes, and, and it allows

438

:

us to talk about, you know, quite

frankly, a complex concept of like a la

439

:

carte TV and pulling what you want and

getting rewarded for it in a way that,

440

:

that, that makes sense in this wrapper.

441

:

John: Got it.

442

:

Jinx: On the Dish side, we have a

little bit of a different thing where

443

:

Dish is a known quantity, right?

444

:

We, they know what the Dish brand

is and, and there's a, there's

445

:

a, a conception of it, right?

446

:

Where, hey, it's satellite, it's some,

you know, it's on my house, it rains,

447

:

and then I lose service, and, and so

and those are misconceptions, right?

448

:

We've, we've done a tremendous

amount of work to update our Hopper

449

:

platform to ingest multiple Streaming

providers so you can watch what

450

:

you want when you want to watch it.

451

:

We have signal protector, which you

know if there's an issue with the

452

:

signal we actually divert you to digital

signal and so it's it's Really great.

453

:

And so that campaign and that branding

is all about Well, how do we reinforce

454

:

the stability of our product?

455

:

The stability of our pricing, right?

456

:

I talked about the two year price

guarantee in the beginning and the

457

:

stability of the offering we have

, cause that customer wants consistency.

458

:

They don't want a whole lot of complexity.

459

:

They really want it to

be easy and consistent.

460

:

That's where the branding on, on that

side is more there's more to dish.

461

:

Right.

462

:

Cause.

463

:

We already have that

brand in people's mind.

464

:

We want to tell them the

misconceptions they have are

465

:

incorrect and, and how do we correct.

466

:

John: hmm.

467

:

It is, yeah, that's, it's hard to

change deeply held consumer perceptions

468

:

about things like the satellite

goes out when it's cloudy or rainy,

469

:

but are you seeing movement there?

470

:

Are you seeing the people kind of, those

old perceptions are starting to get a

471

:

little bit, Smaller and easier to overcome

472

:

Jinx: yeah, I, I, I mean, I, I think

especially because you know, in a former

473

:

life we did this on, on the cable side,

like there, there's less of a focus on

474

:

the, on the television product, right?

475

:

Things have moved to internet.

476

:

It's very much about the internet product.

477

:

The the focus isn't there.

478

:

So what we're able to do is

say, we've actually, we actually

479

:

care about this consumer.

480

:

We want to create a high

quality experience and

481

:

that's what we're innovating.

482

:

So we're seeing some

receptiveness to that.

483

:

And then particularly we've

got some of our ads in social

484

:

and we're seeing a lot of.

485

:

Traction with that message, particularly

around signal protector and two

486

:

year price guarantee, et cetera,

about how consistent stable we are.

487

:

So really you know, early stages on, on

that brand work for there's more to dish,

488

:

but, but really good traction so far.

489

:

Brian: how would you describe the

current state of streaming overall?

490

:

You know, it's been a while I

guess ten years at this point, you

491

:

know, where where do where do you

see the the landscape right now?

492

:

Jinx: Yeah, I mean, so

it's really interesting.

493

:

We kind of talked about it, I think.

494

:

And Sling was a little bit ahead.

495

:

Like when we, when I came in two

and a half years ago, we were

496

:

already starting to think like this.

497

:

But there's a shift from, I just want

to acquire every subscriber I can.

498

:

So I want to find the subscribers

that really want my service.

499

:

And and then map that with there's

a proliferation of options.

500

:

So what wasn't around Say well,

nothing was around in:

501

:

what wasn't around two years ago

was fast services in mass, right?

502

:

Pluto and to be in those weren't around.

503

:

Now they are.

504

:

And then, and honestly go on

any smart device or smart TV and

505

:

you will see Roku free channels.

506

:

You'll see Samsung free channels, right?

507

:

Like

508

:

John: or smart TV will just

start playing something.

509

:

Jinx: Yeah, let's just start playing stuff

and and so it's you know So the way you

510

:

have to think about it is and and that's

why we launched freestream on Sling is We

511

:

want to be there for the customer where

they are and how they want to watch right?

512

:

And we want to we we you know

from from a revenue metric, right?

513

:

Of course, we want paid subscribers I

mean, that's that's what That's that

514

:

piece but but from a customer experience

and just a brand And just, you know,

515

:

having an awesome product, we create,

want to create something where we have

516

:

what's right for you in the moment.

517

:

And that's really what we're focused

on and how, what differentiates us.

518

:

And that's why we launched a fast

service which we're the first paid

519

:

and fast service to be able to go

back and forth between we launched

520

:

rewards, which we were the first.

521

:

To provider to streaming provider to give

you actual rewards incentive to watch.

522

:

And, and so that's, that's the

lens we view things in, and

523

:

that's what you'll continue to

see from sling at moving forward.

524

:

Brian: Tell us a little about the

rewards that you're talking about.

525

:

Jinx: Yeah.

526

:

So you can go on sling.

527

:

com rewards, shameless

plug and check it out.

528

:

But basically the, the nature of it is.

529

:

When you watch, as you watch, the

more you watch, you earn entries to

530

:

win cash, so just literally straight

cash that we give away every month

531

:

prizes from, you know, our partners.

532

:

So we gave away a trip to the U.

533

:

S.

534

:

Open, we're giving a trip for the Walking

Dead premiere, you know, all of that's

535

:

included and you, basically, the more you

watch, the more entries You get to win.

536

:

The really cool part for the customer

and for us is you don't have to

537

:

be a paid subscriber to earn.

538

:

You can be paid, you can be free, and

you still have the same amount of chances

539

:

to earn as long as you keep watching.

540

:

John: So so so wait a minute a couple

things there one You're trying to

541

:

turn us into an even bigger nation

of couch potatoes by incentivizing

542

:

just leaving your tv on all the time.

543

:

Okay two you're putting the

burden on internet providers Who

544

:

are kind of providing that that

streaming in the background right

545

:

Jinx: I would say it a different

way, but yeah, sure, you

546

:

Brian: There's another word than burden.

547

:

John: And meanwhile you know, you

guys get a lot of engagement and

548

:

your, your consumers get rewarded.

549

:

So

550

:

Jinx: that's right.

551

:

Yeah.

552

:

And, and, and for me personally, you

know you, you mentioned the upfront,

553

:

like I used to work on loyalty

innovation at JPMorgan Chase, and it

554

:

was all about different ways to use

your points and, and earn points.

555

:

And so when I, when I came here you know,

we were, we were all kind of thinking

556

:

about it and it just aligned in a

beautiful way to say, you know, what's.

557

:

What we said we actually had this at

Chase we did in a brief We said when

558

:

we're doing rewards were like get

the things you love for free, right?

559

:

And basically because you're paying

with your points, so I was like, what

560

:

do you love more than watching TV?

561

:

So it's like get get paid to watch TV get

paid to do the thing you love get paid to

562

:

Brian: mean, yeah, when we were kids,

you'd say that all the time, right?

563

:

That's what I want my job to be.

564

:

John: All right.

565

:

So, so I'm hearing a couple of things.

566

:

If I switch to sling, you will pay me.

567

:

I think it's what I'm hearing.

568

:

The second thing is Can you promise

me that when I turn on Sling,

569

:

I won't have to watch Dateline?

570

:

Because that's what happens when

I turn my TV on now, and I don't

571

:

know how to make that stop.

572

:

Jinx: I promise you, you

will not watch the Dateline

573

:

John: thanks.

574

:

I'm switching.

575

:

Jinx: yeah, I promise that, but, and

we spend a lot of time, honestly,

576

:

thinking about how we personalize and

curate the experience, based on what

577

:

you come in on, and this goes back to

the thing I said before, it's like,

578

:

Well, it's gotta be great creative.

579

:

It's gotta be a great channel strategy.

580

:

It's gotta be great, buy flow

and, and, and sales process.

581

:

But then once you hit that, it's gotta

be, Hey, I wanted to watch this thing.

582

:

I wanna watch Yellowstone.

583

:

That's gonna be the first

thing you're seeing, right?

584

:

And that should be the

thing that that gets you in.

585

:

And then how do we recommend

things to keep you engaged?

586

:

And, and you know, you know, my

boss has a great phrase, which is,

587

:

product's gotta match the promise.

588

:

Right.

589

:

And so, and that's like literally like

emblazoned in our heads, like, I'm

590

:

in the market promising something.

591

:

How do we have the product, the

sales experience, the product,

592

:

et cetera, to match that.

593

:

So that's kind of an ethos we have here.

594

:

Brian: that's great.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

If, if anything falls down,

the whole stool collapses.

597

:

So , in terms of your segments,

especially for streaming you know, with.

598

:

Streaming and being an on demand world.

599

:

But you know, sports is just such a

big I'm sure it's such a big, you know,

600

:

the NFL season right now, it's probably

such a big thing for your campaigns.

601

:

Can you talk a little bit about you know,

just building a program around, you know,

602

:

NFL users or sports, sports watchers,

you know, how does that make up kind of

603

:

your, I guess your seasonal play here?

604

:

Jinx: Yeah, I mean, it's a big moment.

605

:

I mean, honestly, like, it's

a big moment for everybody.

606

:

Right?

607

:

Because that, this is when

the eyeballs turn to TV.

608

:

So, yes, it's a big moment as a

TV provider, but even, you know,

609

:

advertisers in general, this is

when they spend, you know, etc.

610

:

So, the way we think about

it is a couple things.

611

:

One, football means different

things to different people, right?

612

:

We've got, you have NFL watchers,

you have, but you have equally as

613

:

passionate college football watchers.

614

:

Those programs actually live in different

places, ? You know, one's college on ESPN,

615

:

NFL, on a variety of platforms, right?

616

:

And, you know, one might argue too

many, but that's a different story.

617

:

And so, so how do we hit those

different segments, right?

618

:

That care about different affinities.

619

:

And then to hit the second point

about the, the stratification of

620

:

where you can watch, like that's

been a big focus of ours to say.

621

:

You know, whether it's particularly on

dish where you can aggregate a lot of

622

:

content, but even on sling where we can

make up a sizable chunk of that it's.

623

:

It's how do you show the value of

what these services enable for you

624

:

while this landscape has become

more complex than ever, right?

625

:

And so, so that's really important to us.

626

:

And lastly is, you know, like I

said a little bit ago, like prepaid

627

:

offers, for example, on Sling, and

we do similar things on Dish to

628

:

focus on offers for these customers.

629

:

How do we have the right offer?

630

:

To hit these customers.

631

:

So we've got a value proposition in

the market that's tailored messaging

632

:

is tailored to their affinity You

know, whether it's team whether it's

633

:

league, whatever how do we then have a

value proposition that fits into that

634

:

affinity to drive more of that content?

635

:

And then what's that offer

strategy and then and then

636

:

channel strategy to actually say?

637

:

Well, Hey, we can actually give you

a price point that you care about.

638

:

And so you can get all

your content, right?

639

:

John: So Jinx, you've talked about

sort of pulling different levers to get

640

:

customers, you know, Messages, different

messages, working to different, different

641

:

audiences, different offers different

product features that make it sticky.

642

:

What about different media levers?

643

:

Do you feel like now that you're running

a pretty sophisticated acquisition

644

:

marketing machine, do you think, you

know, which channels are working best

645

:

where you should be spending more money

to get in front of those prospects?

646

:

Or is that still a little

bit of a black art?

647

:

Jinx: Well, you know, the,

the famous quote is right.

648

:

I, and half my money is working.

649

:

I just don't know which half, right?

650

:

I think, I think we're better than

that now, but, but I do think there's

651

:

well, we spend a lot of time on to be

totally serious is, is incrementality.

652

:

So I don't know if you've, had

the pleasure of reading a

653

:

guy named Avinash Kaushik.

654

:

He's really fantastic.

655

:

Digital marketing guy, ex Google.

656

:

But, he has a philosophy that I'm really

in tune to and I really like, which is.

657

:

It's all about how to drive incrementality

in the channel because we've spent a lot

658

:

of money on Sling And then it's and to

just say hey paid search strobe this many

659

:

activations is a discredit to everything

that's come before you and everything

660

:

else So so what so what we've focused

on, is really how do we do three things?

661

:

Which is how do we think about?

662

:

channel level incrementality to,

to, to know where to spend, right?

663

:

And so that's kind of in isolation.

664

:

So, hey, is this channel driving

more sales than without it?

665

:

Then we think about, you know,

within a channel, you've got

666

:

kind of subgroups of, of things.

667

:

So for example, you know, on Meta, Meta's,

One thing that's got Facebook, it's got

668

:

Instagram, it's got WhatsApp or whatever.

669

:

How do you break those down into clusters?

670

:

Right.

671

:

And then, and beyond that, then

how do you full portfolio kind of

672

:

incrementality view, and that could be

match market, or that could be, Pulling

673

:

out spend and then bringing it back.

674

:

Right.

675

:

All of those things are tools that we've

done to evaluate where should we spend?

676

:

Why should we spend?

677

:

And then how that impacts our media mix.

678

:

I will say the biggest

difficulty on that is.

679

:

These are point in time views.

680

:

TV business is a seasonal business.

681

:

So how do we spread that across?

682

:

And that's like, that's the fun of it.

683

:

Like that's the that's the challenge.

684

:

And you know, I feel like you're

listening to don't be lying.

685

:

If I said, I figured it all out, but

686

:

John: Yeah.

687

:

Yeah.

688

:

Yeah.

689

:

Jinx: the framework we use to evaluate.

690

:

John: But at least, at least

you have that framework.

691

:

You have a process and,

and, and to your point.

692

:

Yeah.

693

:

Not only is TV a seasonal business,

but we just talked about the

694

:

NFL, like where you find that

varies this fall versus next fall

695

:

Jinx: That's right.

696

:

The fun part about being in this

industry is just the dynamism, right?

697

:

And, and you know, you're exactly right.

698

:

Like this football season is

different than last, right?

699

:

There's a, there's a game on Netflix,

you know, and that didn't happen.

700

:

Brian: Right.

701

:

Jinx: we, how do we respond to that?

702

:

And, and I think there's a real

opportunity, quite frankly,

703

:

particularly on the dish side,

as this gets more complicated.

704

:

I talked about that customer

being So much, so much wanting

705

:

ease and stability and clarity.

706

:

Like, Hey, we have it for you.

707

:

It's all there.

708

:

Brian: Yeah.

709

:

John: and your own record is

saying you thinking you think

710

:

figuring all this out is fun.

711

:

So, all right.

712

:

Is that keeping you up?

713

:

Jinx: yeah, well, I mean,

I say this all the time.

714

:

Like if it's not fun,

why are you doing it?

715

:

Right.

716

:

So you gotta, you gotta love it.

717

:

You gotta love the challenge of it.

718

:

You gotta love the defense of it.

719

:

And you gotta love you know,

digging in the numbers every day.

720

:

Right.

721

:

You know, like I, I, I have

a weird, unique thing where.

722

:

I run marketing and, and, but I

also run a, run a channel, right?

723

:

I'm running a digital channel

and that's, I've done that.

724

:

at Comcast have done that here.

725

:

And, you know, in marketing, you

know, it's, let's put something out.

726

:

Let's test, let's, learn.

727

:

Let's go on the sales side.

728

:

It's every day I started zero.

729

:

Every day I have zero sales and

I got to make a number every day.

730

:

Right.

731

:

Maybe I'm special, but you have,

you have to find it fun to do that.

732

:

You know, like if you don't

find it fun, then, you should

733

:

go into accounting, I guess.

734

:

I don't know.

735

:

Brian: Where would be what would

surprise people in terms of where you're

736

:

finding some subs for streaming, for

example, you know, there any, Really

737

:

fascinating channels that people wouldn't

even think that you're finding subs.

738

:

Jinx: No, I mean, honestly, the biggest

thing for us is, is what's amazing

739

:

is people just love to watch TV.

740

:

So they'll come in from

all different angles.

741

:

When people ask me what's our media

mix, I say, basically every channel

742

:

we can, we can advertise on that has,

you know, that positive ROI for us.

743

:

What's interesting about streaming

to put in context of your listeners

744

:

is, our channels are analogous

to others, but, but different.

745

:

So, so for example, in, in the retail

environment, you have an end cap, right?

746

:

And you spend a lot of time thinking

about your end cap and thinking about

747

:

what you're merchandising on your end cap.

748

:

For me, that end cap is the what's

on next on your Roku, right?

749

:

Similarly, like when we're

merchandising on site.

750

:

Or in our digital flows, right?

751

:

We're, we're, we're working with our

partners to have the highest impact things

752

:

that we can talk about and highest impact

shows or highest impact players or teams.

753

:

So we, so we can leverage that.

754

:

And so, when you asked me about

FreeStream, I think what's really cool,

755

:

what we've seen a lot of traction with is

When people are in the free stream product

756

:

and then we can, we can know what they're

watching and, and and then surface,

757

:

relevant content, you know, you're

watching the sports free show and Oh, now

758

:

March madness is on making a connection

and using that creative, having that very

759

:

seamless buying experience has been great

for us from a acquisition perspective.

760

:

John: all right.

761

:

Can we go back a little further

in your, in your career?

762

:

Cause apparently according to LinkedIn,

you have a patent, which I don't think

763

:

a lot of marketers can claim, but

you can, can you tell us about that?

764

:

What, what, what kind of sexy technology

is out there with your name on it?

765

:

Oh,

766

:

Jinx: Yeah.

767

:

So I, yeah, so I have a couple of

patents mainly for my days, a couple,

768

:

couple, I just want to correct you.

769

:

I don't want you to.

770

:

John: Brian, how many patents do you have?

771

:

Brian: seven

772

:

John: Seven.

773

:

Oh, okay.

774

:

Jinx: Okay.

775

:

So Brian's better than me.

776

:

Brian wins.

777

:

John: rear with

778

:

Brian: I have no pen.

779

:

I have no pen.

780

:

Jinx: I think I

781

:

John: but between us, but

between us, Jinx, we have zero.

782

:

Jinx: Okay.

783

:

Well, you know, I had the good fortune of

working for JP Morgan Chase and running

784

:

an innovation team and at JP Morgan Chase,

the lawyers would literally seek me out

785

:

and be like, what are you thinking about?

786

:

I'm going to help you write.

787

:

A patent with your brilliant ideas.

788

:

Yeah, it was great.

789

:

So so I get the all the benefit of having

my name on one none of the credit because

790

:

jp morgan owns all the actual ip on that

so That's one thing but I but i'll say

791

:

The patent, the one that I'm the lead

inventor on, that I'm the most proud of,

792

:

was what we did for the what became the

Freedom Mobile app, which was, how do you

793

:

pay with your points at the point of sale?

794

:

And so, we basically, so we launched

Amazon Pay with Points, which, for

795

:

those that don't know or don't use

Amazon, you could when you, when

796

:

you link your credit card to Amazon,

then we immediately show your points

797

:

bank, and you can deduct from them.

798

:

John: It's awesome.

799

:

Jinx: And it's awesome, right?

800

:

Yeah.

801

:

I can buy some of Amazon and I can,

and I can buy it to the penny, right?

802

:

I can $25 and 23 cents for that really

cool head set of headphones or whatever.

803

:

I can do that.

804

:

Some of my points, it's free, right?

805

:

And, and and this got us, we're marketers.

806

:

I ran an innovation team, we're marketers.

807

:

We said, what's better than getting

the things you love for free?

808

:

Right.

809

:

And what's the hurdle to that?

810

:

Well, we want to do that in the real

world because Amazon's great, but like.

811

:

I don't, maybe don't love my subscribe

and save Tide Pods, but I love a

812

:

Starbucks coffee every morning, right?

813

:

Or whatever it is.

814

:

And so that was, so we kind of

thought about it in three ways, right?

815

:

We thought about it in the,

the customer need, right?

816

:

I love that thing, right?

817

:

so, so that's customer need.

818

:

We thought about it in the business

value because, , if you do a gift card

819

:

redemptions versus cashback redemptions,

that's actually more beneficial to the.

820

:

The financial provider because they

negotiate a big rate with Starbucks

821

:

to get a bunch of gift cards.

822

:

So it's less pennies on the dollar.

823

:

So that's the business value.

824

:

Hey, if I can move people to gift

card from cashback, that's a, that's

825

:

a benefit to the business and it's

a customer value that they like.

826

:

So it's a win win.

827

:

Then the last, the third leg of the

story, I guess, is like the technology.

828

:

Like, does it exist?

829

:

Like, can we actually do that?

830

:

And so we looked to Starbucks and

we spent a bunch of time with them.

831

:

Their app basically does that.

832

:

It hacks a gift card.

833

:

Every time you pre load 20 gift card that

they're serving up for you in the end.

834

:

So we're like, wait a minute,

there's a technology solution to

835

:

a customer need and a business.

836

:

Need.

837

:

So the intersection of that was

what we did with the, what it

838

:

became the freedom mobile app now.

839

:

And then it rolled into the chase

app and chase pay and all the,

840

:

all the stuff they've done since.

841

:

But and it was just that it was, Hey,

look, I'm going to go to Starbucks.

842

:

I'm going to buy something

for 5 and 83 cents.

843

:

I can pull up this app.

844

:

I can punch in 5.

845

:

83 in real time immediately,

delivers a gift card via barcode.

846

:

Customer doesn't know that.

847

:

They just think it's a barcode.

848

:

Scan it.

849

:

Boom.

850

:

Get my coffee.

851

:

I'm out.

852

:

John: That's awesome.

853

:

Very cool.

854

:

Well, I'm jealous, not just because

you have a patent, but because you

855

:

had lawyers chasing you down for,

you know, things that are beneficial.

856

:

I just had lawyers chasing me down

to add more disclaimers to things.

857

:

Jinx: That's right.

858

:

Well, I have that too.

859

:

You know, exactly.

860

:

So, we can all commiserate on that one.

861

:

John: I

862

:

Jinx: yeah, no, it was a fun time.

863

:

Well, pharma, so apologies

to all the pharma listeners.

864

:

John: Fair enough.

865

:

Jinx: My favorite, if you want to

talk about innovation, my favorite

866

:

innovation, if you haven't seen it is.

867

:

Now display ads have scroll bars

just to get through all of the

868

:

flamers on a, on a display ad.

869

:

So, I mean, if our click through rate

wasn't bad enough, like, come on.

870

:

Brian: Jinx it'd be great to hear

our listeners to hear just a little

871

:

bit more about how you've kind of

worked your way through the marketing

872

:

industry and e commerce and how

you got to where you're at now.

873

:

Jinx: Yeah.

874

:

No, I'm happy.

875

:

I'm happy to talk about that.

876

:

I think you guys have led big

teams and all that kind of stuff.

877

:

I think when you have, when you have

a big team and an organization that

878

:

looks you for leadership, like it's.

879

:

It behooves you to spend the

time with them to, to, to

880

:

mentor them and talk to them.

881

:

And, and so I talked to my team

a lot about this actually have

882

:

throughout my organization, have

one on ones with everyone on the

883

:

team at least once a quarter.

884

:

You know, my directs and stuff regularly,

et cetera, but, but literally just

885

:

to focus on career for, especially

for some of the junior folks that,

886

:

you know, like think about us.

887

:

Yeah, help them navigate.

888

:

We just, we were just

figuring it out, right?

889

:

So if there's anything I can do

to give them a nudge or give them

890

:

the purview of connecting the

dots for them I'd love to do that.

891

:

So,

892

:

John: Have you always had

that across your career?

893

:

Has someone done that for you or did

you kind of learn this by not having it?

894

:

Jinx: You know, it's interesting.

895

:

I think I was actually reflecting on

this, like, I don't think I've had a boss

896

:

that's done this, and maybe it's kind of

insane to dab one on ones with everybody,

897

:

but I still think it's important.

898

:

But at like Chase, for example,

the the CEO of Card at the

899

:

time said, My door's open.

900

:

You, anyone can schedule.

901

:

And I, and I never took advantage

of that with her and, and I had a,

902

:

like a big regret, you know, and I,

I got to meet her and, and we worked

903

:

together and it was, it was fine.

904

:

And then it'd be fine.

905

:

But like, I always had this big

regret because I was like, no, I'm

906

:

not important enough to talk to her.

907

:

I don't have enough to

talk about, et cetera.

908

:

So, you know, for me, forcing

the issue, quite frankly, and

909

:

telling the people that come to my

office, like, this is your time.

910

:

I will, if you want to talk about, Okay.

911

:

You know, music for half an hour

or whatever for, I'll do that.

912

:

But I think the best use of your time

in mind is to talk about your career and

913

:

how I can help you and how you know, I

can answer questions for you, et cetera.

914

:

And so that's, that's sort

of where that was born from.

915

:

John: That's terrific.

916

:

They're, they're lucky to have you.

917

:

That's great.

918

:

You take that proactive stance.

919

:

And I remember same thing,

Brian, I'm guessing you do too.

920

:

It was always intimidating to kind

of be the initiator with the senior

921

:

person to ask about your career.

922

:

So it's great that you're,

you're being the initiator.

923

:

Jinx: Yeah.

924

:

I think, you know, what I tell them

a lot too, is like, you asked me

925

:

more specifically, how did I get

to where I got to, which might be

926

:

boring for your listeners, but, but,

but I'll say I, I graduated from

927

:

the university of Pittsburgh with a.

928

:

with a degree in physics and music,

which means I was prepared for nothing.

929

:

That's literally, I was prepared to

be a graduate student and I didn't

930

:

want to be a graduate student.

931

:

I was fortunate to get some

roles and then, and then

932

:

skilled to take those roles.

933

:

and make the most of them.

934

:

And that's sort of how I

landed in the innovation role.

935

:

That's sort of how I got to Comcast where

I had the great fortune of meeting John.

936

:

That's how I got to lead e commerce

for Comcast and report to the CMO.

937

:

And that's how I, I got to be here.

938

:

And the thing I always say to the people

that come to my office that asked for

939

:

that advice, or how did I get here

or whatever, Is a couple of things.

940

:

One, when, when you were in college,

when you were in high school, right?

941

:

Like you practiced, like,

what did you play to sport?

942

:

You play an instrument, whatever you

practice far more than you played.

943

:

Right.

944

:

You would, I mean, I was a drummer

and I practice eight hours a day and

945

:

I play a two hour gig and then I would

go and I'm practicing, you know, when

946

:

we get in the workforce, we start

at nine, we end at five, we come in

947

:

at nine and we expect to let change

the world until five and then leave.

948

:

Like, that's not how it works.

949

:

Like you have to put in the time,

like you have to treat it like, yeah,

950

:

like you're, you're craft, right?

951

:

That's why you know, I joke, but

it's like, if you look, if you don't

952

:

love it, why, why are you doing it?

953

:

Cause you, you have to

give it that much, right.

954

:

If you want to succeed.

955

:

And so that's the thing I talk

about and, and, and practice means

956

:

something different in the workforce.

957

:

Like.

958

:

Practice means networking.

959

:

Practice means talking to the finance

guy and understanding the P& L.

960

:

Practice means spending time with the

presentation and then road showing

961

:

it so when you finally take it to the

senior leader, you're polished, right?

962

:

Like, it means something different,

but it's the same concept.

963

:

, and then the other thing I talk about

is I really haven't said no to anything.

964

:

You know, like, you know, when stuff comes

at me, I just, I don't, I don't say no.

965

:

I was a physics and music teacher.

966

:

I, you know my first job actually

was selling stuff door to door.

967

:

Cause I, I, I responded

to an ad for a marketer.

968

:

Cause I, first of all, I

wasn't prepared for anything.

969

:

So I was like, I can do marketing.

970

:

I, I was painting out flyers for my band.

971

:

I must do it.

972

:

Yeah, exactly.

973

:

Right.

974

:

You know, we get a bad track here, but,

but seriously, I was like, you know, I

975

:

hadn't handed out flyers for my band.

976

:

So I, Oh, can you mark, okay.

977

:

Marketer.

978

:

Needed marketer must

wear comfortable shoes.

979

:

So, so also advice.

980

:

If it ever says comfortable shoes,

that means you're going door to door.

981

:

And so so yeah, I did it

and, and it was horrible.

982

:

Like it was terrible like that.

983

:

But what it allowed me to do was a, it

was a, I had a piece of conversation

984

:

that for my next job, which was more

of like a startup, and I, and I kind

985

:

of knew the owner of this company.

986

:

And he was a mentor of mine.

987

:

I like had a sit down with him and I

was talking about how bad this stuff is.

988

:

Like, why don't you come work for me?

989

:

And I was like, wait, I never

thought that was a thing.

990

:

Like, I don't, I'm not

prepared to do anything.

991

:

He's like, would you do this, this, this?

992

:

I was like, yep.

993

:

He's like, go.

994

:

Right.

995

:

And, and it's funny too, because I still

think about that sales role every time

996

:

I'm trying to pump up a sales team.

997

:

Cause I, that's the one thing

I did learn in that role.

998

:

And so, you know, you

track that all the way to.

999

:

Hey, do you, you know, do you want to

be in this rotational program at Chase?

:

00:42:56,927 --> 00:42:57,417

Sure.

:

00:42:57,487 --> 00:42:57,957

Yes.

:

00:42:58,127 --> 00:43:00,757

Oh, Hey, actually, there's

this other cool job.

:

00:43:00,767 --> 00:43:01,217

Do you want to do that?

:

00:43:01,227 --> 00:43:01,597

Yes.

:

00:43:01,637 --> 00:43:04,837

Oh, do you want to, you want to work

in, in digital advertising at Comcast?

:

00:43:04,837 --> 00:43:05,777

Well, I never did that before.

:

00:43:05,777 --> 00:43:06,087

Yes.

:

00:43:06,107 --> 00:43:07,897

Do you want to work in e commerce?

:

00:43:07,977 --> 00:43:08,697

I never did that before.

:

00:43:08,697 --> 00:43:09,057

Yes.

:

00:43:09,087 --> 00:43:11,337

And like, it, it just compounds in itself.

:

00:43:11,337 --> 00:43:13,317

And, and you know, Steve Jobs

has a great quote, right?

:

00:43:13,317 --> 00:43:15,497

Like the, the dots connect

themselves in hindsight.

:

00:43:16,057 --> 00:43:17,817

That's really the way, the way I feel.

:

00:43:17,817 --> 00:43:21,447

And I think I'm jealous of the people

like doctors and stuff that are like,

:

00:43:21,867 --> 00:43:23,327

I know exactly, Oh, I want to be that.

:

00:43:23,357 --> 00:43:24,347

And I'm going to do that.

:

00:43:24,347 --> 00:43:26,877

And, but, but, but that wasn't me.

:

00:43:26,877 --> 00:43:31,697

And so, but for me, it's, you got

to put the work in and just, you

:

00:43:31,697 --> 00:43:35,607

know, don't say yes to stuff that,

that puts you out of your value

:

00:43:35,607 --> 00:43:37,557

system, but, but otherwise say yes.

:

00:43:39,982 --> 00:43:40,432

Brian: Love that.

:

00:43:40,432 --> 00:43:40,562

Love that.

:

00:43:40,687 --> 00:43:41,047

John: Yeah.

:

00:43:41,127 --> 00:43:41,507

Love it.

:

00:43:44,087 --> 00:43:47,837

Well, Jinx, you've been so generous with

your time and covered a lot of territory.

:

00:43:47,837 --> 00:43:50,027

We're really grateful

for your time with us.

:

00:43:51,167 --> 00:43:54,647

Brian, anything you you need to ask

Jinx before we let him, let him free?

:

00:43:55,292 --> 00:43:57,792

Brian: no, just thank you for

Thanks for taking the time.

:

00:43:57,792 --> 00:44:01,562

And it was great hearing about what

you're doing with, with those two brands.

:

00:44:01,562 --> 00:44:02,892

And we love this industry.

:

00:44:02,892 --> 00:44:07,252

We want to see where it goes the next

couple of years and how, you know,

:

00:44:07,782 --> 00:44:12,662

consumers may change constantly and, and,

you know, how you guys react to that.

:

00:44:12,662 --> 00:44:13,672

So thanks again.

:

00:44:15,147 --> 00:44:15,677

Jinx: No, I appreciate it.

:

00:44:15,677 --> 00:44:16,527

Thanks for having me.

:

00:44:16,627 --> 00:44:17,697

I love the work you guys do.

:

00:44:17,707 --> 00:44:18,547

I love being on here.

:

00:44:18,547 --> 00:44:19,577

I love talking about this stuff.

:

00:44:19,967 --> 00:44:22,897

I obviously could talk about

it all day because I do, but

:

00:44:22,997 --> 00:44:24,217

but it's been really great.

:

00:44:24,552 --> 00:44:24,782

John: All right.

:

00:44:24,782 --> 00:44:28,172

Well, maybe we'll do a follow up

episode that just follows you around for

:

00:44:28,172 --> 00:44:29,522

eight hours and see if anyone listens.

:

00:44:30,067 --> 00:44:30,457

Jinx: That's right.

:

00:44:31,067 --> 00:44:31,237

We'll see.

:

00:44:31,297 --> 00:44:31,797

We'll see.

:

00:44:34,252 --> 00:44:36,082

John: All right, Jinx, thank you so much.

:

00:44:36,182 --> 00:44:36,822

You be well.

:

00:44:36,822 --> 00:44:38,012

Good luck with everything you're doing.

:

00:44:38,557 --> 00:44:38,757

Jinx: All right.

:

00:44:38,767 --> 00:44:39,487

Have a great time guys.

:

00:44:39,487 --> 00:44:42,427

And good luck to all your listeners

and keep following these guys.

:

00:44:42,427 --> 00:44:43,177

They're doing great stuff.

:

00:44:43,252 --> 00:44:43,922

John: Ah, thanks, man.

:

00:44:44,162 --> 00:44:44,602

Brian: Thank you.

:

00:44:47,008 --> 00:44:48,178

John: Brian, that was Jinx.

:

00:44:48,778 --> 00:44:49,408

Good dude, huh?

:

00:44:49,678 --> 00:44:49,968

Brian: Yeah.

:

00:44:50,028 --> 00:44:50,528

He's awesome.

:

00:44:50,828 --> 00:44:51,128

John: Yeah.

:

00:44:51,218 --> 00:44:51,768

He's a neat guy.

:

00:44:52,038 --> 00:44:52,668

Really smart.

:

00:44:52,938 --> 00:44:53,258

Yeah.

:

00:44:53,328 --> 00:44:57,138

I think he makes some, he, he made

a lot of really complicated things.

:

00:44:57,148 --> 00:44:57,738

Sound simple.

:

00:44:58,058 --> 00:45:01,558

And I tell you, one of the things I

really appreciated was he said a few times

:

00:45:01,688 --> 00:45:03,438

you know, you gotta love what you do.

:

00:45:04,278 --> 00:45:04,638

Brian: Yeah.

:

00:45:04,888 --> 00:45:05,148

John: Yeah.

:

00:45:05,258 --> 00:45:05,578

Nice.

:

00:45:05,748 --> 00:45:09,538

And I just wanted to say, Brian,

I love podcasting with you.

:

00:45:09,628 --> 00:45:10,138

How about that?

:

00:45:11,768 --> 00:45:12,788

Brian: I do as well.

:

00:45:13,038 --> 00:45:15,158

John: How about that for a tender

moment here on Snap Decisions.

:

00:45:17,588 --> 00:45:18,888

Brian: Intimate, tender moment.

:

00:45:19,298 --> 00:45:20,068

Thank you, John.

:

00:45:20,118 --> 00:45:21,738

I love podcasting with you as well.

:

00:45:21,898 --> 00:45:22,288

John: Nice.

:

00:45:23,048 --> 00:45:24,278

Let's keep doing it then.

:

00:45:24,948 --> 00:45:28,298

We'll take, we'll use, we'll

take Jinx's advice and we will

:

00:45:28,388 --> 00:45:29,448

continue doing what we love.

:

00:45:30,198 --> 00:45:30,858

Brian: All right.

:

00:45:31,138 --> 00:45:31,648

All right.

:

00:45:31,868 --> 00:45:32,318

I'm in.

:

00:45:32,318 --> 00:45:32,478

John: All right.

:

00:45:32,518 --> 00:45:35,248

Well, let's continue it into

our next episode coming soon.

:

00:45:35,748 --> 00:45:36,148

Brian: All right.

:

00:45:36,198 --> 00:45:37,038

I'll talk to you later.

:

00:45:37,298 --> 00:45:37,778

John: All right, man.

:

00:45:37,988 --> 00:45:38,358

Bye.

:

00:45:38,358 --> 00:45:38,937

Brian: Bye.

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