I talk a lot about the intersection of business and spirituality and how the two can complement each other, but is there ever actually a dividing line? Are there areas where it’s harder to bridge the gap than others?

Caitlin and I delve into the crucial difference between worldly and spiritual life and shed light on the often-misunderstood relationship between wealth and inner peace, using Elon Musk as an example. By understanding the human tendency to resort to drama and crisis as escape mechanisms from internal struggles, we learn how life’s challenges, both in and out of business, can be stepping stones for personal and spiritual growth.

(Don’t miss this episode if you want access to an incriminating Golf Digest article about me from 2012!)

References 

• The 200% Life by Adam Hergenrother
• Forbes 400: The Definitive Ranking of The Wealthiest Americans in 2023
• Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson
• Adam's feature in Golf Digest

Welcome to the 200% Life Podcast with Adam Hergenrother and Caitlin Frauton, where we bring you weekly insights into spiritual growth and business success. So, Caitlin, you came on in your inaugural. How do you say that?

It's close enough.

Something like those lines inaugural, inaugural. It's funny because I was doing the Audible for the 200% Life book, which is now out. The Audible will be out relatively soon here as you're listening to this. But it's funny when you read things you don't realize how like when you're not even saying them out loud how much you're reading through work. I'm just speaking, I guess, to my own experience. But when you read sentences to go through this, like how fast you just skip over a lot of the pronunciations of words and kind of merge words together when you're doing it.

But when you're reading an Audible book, there's somebody listening to how you're pronouncing every single syllable and space in between there, and so it gets funny because they're like oh, you said that wrong. I go no, I didn't. And they're like, well, you play it back and you go, yeah, I did. And so it's like it's easy to get out of rhythm for it, but it's way harder. By the way, I know people don't talk about it, but, like when you do an Audible book, there's a reason why professional people do this, because it is very difficult to keep that up.

I remember the first time I did the Audible for the Founder and Force multiplier, I thought I was like I was like just pack me like five hours and I'll just get the whole book done, and so how he's like the lady that we were doing it with was like, hey, really don't, people don't do it like that. And how he's like, well, he really wants to try it. So I went in there and we had like a four hour thing or five hours booked and like after two and a half hours it was like I couldn't do another word, like it was that, and so now it's two hour blocks and again the Audible will coming out. But it's been great. We've launched the 200% Lifebook Super excited. But we also have switched you and Hallie right and we can actually merge each other here. So we have this conversation with Haley and her.

We actually together and we have a talk over we shot the whole thing. And so as we packed out, as we were going through all the heat and everything, it really bugs in business, and so it's. Yeah, I really appreciate her, uh, letting me sit here and pick up the conversation and contribute to her.

Yeah, yeah, and so, um yeah, my role as director of strategic content. So then, I have been working with you, adam, for a couple of years just a month before and just am totally in love with this concept of business meet spirituality, and so I am working on helping with the book and future books.

Future books and the course and project you content. So I am just immersed in all things content creation and content research and, yeah, just taking in a lot of the spiritual content and concepts and applying them with you to the business world and kind of finding ways to get it out there, um, so that this message can really land in the business community, and so, yeah, that's awesome and I'm really excited to be doing it. So that's the official title.

Yeah, there it is, you know it's funny because when we were thinking about, like how it's like you know, there's multiple times throughout the years how he's like there should be, and you were here a couple of days, she's like somebody else be doing this and you would ask questions. And at one point, how he's like should Caitlin just come over here and do this? Because, uh, one thing that and she, you know, mentioned this early, early on, um, when you first started working with us she's like Caitlin just ask her really good questions, and I think it's kind of like that same. If anybody's listening to this ever is listening to like Gangaji or something along those lines.

There's people, or even Eckhart Tolle's first book was all about questions, and so sometimes the best um kind of podcast comes from this deep curiosity of the questions that are there. That pulls things out. And so one of the things when we were thinking about like, okay, who's going to come in and jump in this? And it's been a natural progression because you've always asked extremely great questions to kind of bring things out, and so it was a natural fit for you to be here. So we're excited for you to bring that structure to this and you've already have with just you know what's spirituality? Want to lawn just these deep learning questions that we all have, and I think a lot of people kind of going through this have these questions too. So where are we at for today?

All right. So today we are tackling the topic of business life versus spiritual life and, yes, part of the spirituality. One on one series. Last week we dove into acceptance, surrender. And I think hopefully cover that in a lot of detail for folks. But then it's like the next question is all right, how do you actually do this in business?

Yeah, yeah, you know we're doing obviously a lot of and I have the honor of being on a lot of podcasts right now for the book in the I'll share this before we got an error the fundamental question that we get then people always ask it this way, but when we start getting in the book they people get genuinely interested in, like how do I bridge the two together? Right, like how do I which hopefully the book does and provides a model for that for people to be able to follow to answer that question and more depth than we would in a podcast. But it's really comes down to like what is the difference between business or being like a worldly person, right, in having a spiritual life? And that's a? I mean once you say it. Would you summarize it that way?

Yeah, absolutely Like what's the difference, and then where do they come together?

Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. Where do they come together to as well? I think, before we kind of answer that question directly, the because you can say well, there's difference. Being in the world right is like everything that's out there, and of course, one of those things is business, and I'm people, a lot of people that listen to this, are building businesses or entrepreneurs. But that's not, this is not like a pigeonhole of just like when we think of the worldly, when you describe like the worldly adventures that are out there. This could be vacations, this could be building a business, and we'll simply talk about building a business. But I wanted to just mention this. It could be a teacher, you could be an artist, you could be a you know, working construction industry. You know, obviously, we have a construction company.

I see people in there that are wonderful human beings just designing wonderful stuff, that are really, really dedicating their life to that. So you have this worldly life, right. People are like I don't want to give this up, right? I think that's where people get stuck, of trying to go down the spiritual life, if you will. It's like, okay, I really love what I'm doing in the world, or I love the things that the world offers, and so doesn't everybody. I mean, we all love the sun, we love the rainy days, we love the birds that sing to us in the morning, the fact that there's trees and all this wonderful things that we can be entertained with at all times, and I think that's part of the human experience is to play and interact with all of that.

The spiritual side of all of this is, to me, which is just and they answer the question when you, when you bring them together, which is which part of you is really doing this? It's, it's. Are you doing this for that self concept that you've created? Slash ego right To go out in the world and get things from the world to make you feel better inside, to turn you on inside, because, remember, everybody for the most part is doing things outside currently right, doing things outside as a way to make their inner experience their spiritual life, if you will, having a better inner experience in their life. So the, to me, a spiritual life is just somebody who is has dedicated themselves to going. I don't need the world outside to turn me on. I don't need to be doing things outside and manipulating people from a how is this going to benefit me side, and what I really want to do is I want to go fix the inner life so that I can then bring my whole self into the outer experience, instead of bringing a part of me into the outer experience that is trying to get the other part of me. Okay, and you can see, if you say it that way it may sounds, you can get deep and we'll kind of unpack that. But it's really, it's not hard If you just take a step back and go just watch what's going on. Right.

Yesterday in a podcast somebody said well, where do people start with all this? This makes sense, but where do people start? And to me, the first place to start is just to pay attention to what you're doing and pay attention to the fact that there is a voice inside your head that is telling you to go do things outside in a way that's going to temporarily make your inner experience better than what it currently is. I mean, that's essentially what's happening. So a worldly person is somebody who uses the world as a way to make themselves feel better inside. A spiritual person is somebody says I don't want to have to go out to the world to make myself better. I want to fix what's going on inside so that I can then show up in the world and participate in whatever aspect that I'm being asked to do. Right, go ahead.

Okay, so it's not necessarily that these are two separate spheres. It's just the mindset or the goals that you are, or the lens through which you are viewing your life with. So in the worldly life, you're viewing it through the ego, or what can I do to build up my self concept? Spiritual life is you could still be the same person doing the same thing, but you have just shifted your perspective because you're not going out to achieve more for your self concept and your ego, so you're using business as your way for spiritual growth.

Yeah, it's almost as if you find yourself falling into it, right? I heard this example the other day. It's like, you know, you think about, like who am I going to date, who's just going to be who? You drop this person that you're going to meet and all this different stuff, and they go. We're the only species that does that, right. It's like you don't see, like deer, thinking about who they're going to meet, and they find themselves mating and procreating, right, like they. Just they do that, right.

And I'm not saying you can't, you know, decide who you want it is, but it's like we put so much thought into the world itself as a way, as a mechanism for, for kind of dealing with our inner challenges, and you said it nicely. I think the way I continue to see this is just that. It's look, if you were, if you were using the world as a way, as a crutch for your life, as you're using it as a way to, I don't feel good inside. So, therefore, I need to go get a relationship, or I need to go build a business, or you know, I didn't get this promotion that I wanted to. Therefore, I'm going to quit my job. Right, you're just now being driven by these energies that are inside that are really false. They're not real. They're real and they're not real. Right, they're like a true mirage. I heard somebody describe it. It's like a real mirage and it's kind of an oxymoron, because how can you have a real mirage? But it's the same thing where, meaning that the minute your self concept starts to dilute and move away, that mirage that was there is kind of no longer there. But it certainly feels real because you've created and you're holding on to this image of what life is outside and how you see yourself. So how you see yourself is also the way in terms of how you go out there and try to manipulate the world to make yourself feel better. So it's, it's.

And then the spiritual side. So you kind of just and you can jump in here in a second I always just think, like again, the spiritual side of this is not about changing what you're doing, and this is what you said earlier. It's not about the fact that if you're a business owner, it's not about not being a business owner. It's not about not making money. It's not about not hiring or firing people. It's not about not succeeding or having things. It's more about I'm not doing that in order to personally get something from it. That is then going to make me Okay, of course, you personally probably going to get a paycheck right, you're going to get your mechanical things, so it's.

That's why it's such a gray line here in slippery slope, because it can seem as if everyone's doing the same thing, but the reality is just what part of you is interacting with it. And then when you, when you, when you focus on the spiritual side or the personal growth side of this, when you show up in the outer world, you're just there contributing, but you're there in a way, not trying to get that energy to flow inside of you. That, again, it's pretty easy for people to understand. There's, you know, sometimes you feel good, sometimes you feel bad, and when you don't feel, when you feel bad, you try to fix it right. You try to go outside and fix it.

To me, that's a worldly person. When you're not feeling good and you try to release or relax, and release and surrender, to remove what's in there causing you to not feel good, that is a spiritual individual of setting your pole star forward, of going. I'm no longer. I've realized I'm not going to play this game anymore in my life where I have convinced myself by going and getting that right my license, a bunny when you're six, your first mountain bike, right, you're a car, you're driver's license, your first house, your first child, your marriage, your wedding, I'm all these big items and small items that you've set yourself up for. I'm going to go get these things and once I get them, like it, there's never not been something else that you want to get after that right. And so you, you wake up and realize I'm not going to play that game when my energy gets off, I'm not going to go use the world as a way of a temporary coping mechanism to try to get me to feel better.

So instead, that's that's a worldly person. So instead a spiritual person wakes up and says, okay, I've had enough with this. I've realized this is no longer going to serve me at the highest level. It's not wrong, it's just not going to serve me at the highest level. And I know that I'm reacting to how I feel inside. So instead of trying to manipulate the world, I'm going to go fix, or, at the Buddhist, talk about working out the root of yourself, which is why do I feel this energy anyways, why do I feel blocked anyways. It's causing me to make that or take that action outside.

If you do that work in terms of releasing the, the blockage, or releasing the samskara which we've done plenty of episodes on that are blocking you in the first place you then don't feel the need to go out in the world and manipulate the world to make you feel okay, because you're already feeling high inside that inner. That inner experience is already feeling and generating wonderful feelings. Therefore, it doesn't mean you just sit there either. It just means that you go out into the world, but for a different purpose, to contribute and just play Right, and then I'll stop. But 99, the thing is is 99% of the time there really is nothing for you to do. And that's the difference, like, if your mind's not going ballistic every moment, there's really not much to do, and then you just then you find yourself just I'm over here, I'm over there, and again, it's just so. That's kind of really just kind of hopefully taking a few minutes to dissect the difference to what it means to be a worldly person.

And the other thing I would say is still, people in business. I even struggled with this myself and I, holly and I, were having this conversation yesterday, where I was, like you know, I find myself still trying. When my energy gets shifted, I can easily switch into business mode Cause I know that it'll solve that energy disturbance Right. And I just I know that's a pattern of mine to want to jump in and go to my emails or go send an email or try to be creative. And it's not that it's wrong, it's just I know instead of dealing with the real problem, I'm going into business to distract myself from it, to use the business setting to make myself feel better in that moment. I just know that this is what's happening. So now you kind of watch this and pay attention to it. So instead of going to send an email to our group or to go distract myself in business, I sit there for a few more minutes longer and try to do the inner work that needs to get done to release that, and then, once that's gone, I may find myself back in business.

But it's not for that same reason anymore. Now it's to for a different reason, and then I'm responding differently. I see things differently. You have a little bit more clarity that way. So it's such a small, small, small difference. But it's quantum. Quantum is like something that's very a small action. It has massive consequences, or you know, consequences, I guess, positive or negative consequences right On the other end. So this is that same one. So if you just pay attention to why you're sending that email, versus removing it first and then going in there and taking action in the worldly, in the outside world, you're then at that point, serving the highest that you can serve at any moment that you have.

So it sounds like, very simply put, that if it's a, you have a worldly perspective, you are seeking to feel better using the outside world, how you are pursuing joy fulfillment by always going outward. But the simple but like profound shift to a spiritual perspective is realizing that joy fulfillment always come from inside and it can never be found in the outside. And then that shift may not change what you're doing, it all. It just as you say, very often it changes the part of you that's doing it.

Yeah, that is accurate, the. I was gonna say something else when you were saying that, but then I tried not to think about the thoughts, so I could listen to you.

No, it's hard to do that I mean let's do it.

It's sometimes it's there, but yeah, that you're. I think you're spot on for what that is. You know, I think I was first introduced this we talked about like real life examples of people who are, you know, kind of approaching business and her life in this kind of capacity. You know, michael Singer is obviously one that a lot of people know because he built a big business, but his story is fascinating. Let's put a pin in him for a second. But I first heard, before he even read, the Untethered Soul. This was probably 2009.

I remember him saying that I'm like that's it, I'm just a spiritual being having this temporary human experience, right, and that was the first. It just clicked with me when he said that because I was like that's a great way of saying that and I didn't share that with him because I went home and I started joining him. I'm like, yeah, that's right, we're just a spiritual being having a human temporary experience. So if you focus on the spiritual side first, you just get to play with the human experience, versus coming in here and thinking that you need to have the perfect human experience in order for you to feel spiritual. And I think that's where people get confused. They try to go out and have the perfect human life, which is impossible, by the way, because people are unpredictable, everything's unpredictable. You can't control any of that. You think you can control it Even if you have all the money in the world, right? You try to get situations perfectly and they're still not perfect and they're still miserable, right?

That's what I loved about the opening of the book, because it starts with so the 200% life. It starts with this description of really a perfect day and I'm reading it I'm like is this? I had just to ask you, is that like actually your day For?

the most part it really is Like that's where we modeled it, after Obviously buying the Jackson Hole, or like the beach house, like that's not necessarily true, we added that in there for effect, just to kind of play it out. But that's the kind of beginning morning of my routine.

So that was just kind of hugely eye-opening for me, because it is this perfect day, you know, and we all have this image of what a perfect like. Oh, if I get up early enough, if I do exercise, if I have the healthy smoothie, you know, I'm just gonna feel amazing, and so it's this whole story about that. And then at the end it's like you lay your head on the pillow and you're ruminating, thinking about the things you should have done, and I was like, wow, so that was kind of an amazing insight to see. Like, well, adam's pretty much done all these things, you know, and he knows that, like that rumination and everything still happens, and so, yeah, that was really helpful to see. Like, even if you do it, check all the boxes.

Well, I think that's what part of the shift in our society is happening right now is people recognize like, okay, I went and did or got somewhere close not just a lot of people right, they're having time for themselves more, you know, they're taking more time, they're having more work-life integration or presence in their life, like they're having these things, and they will still wake up and they go life's relatively better, right, cause that's just the way of saying it. Like I admit, like, yes, you can relatively get your life better. There's no question about that. With money, with other things, you can relatively get your life better, and if that's the path you want to go down, then you should play that game 100%, relatively get it, okay. The challenge with that, though, is there's still something missing, because you're still playing with the world, and this is why us you know the Western society being, specifically, united States, being one of the wealthiest, as you look at it, in the world, but having the highest like depression and suicide rates. So it's almost as if, like it's like we're gonna tell you to go out and get all these things, and by getting all these things, I always say this on all these podcasts.

People ask me my origin story and I share it and I enjoy sharing it. I always say, like I remember the moment in my life where I bought into this concept early on, that business power of money, fame was somehow gonna have. Like a tree planted in my backyard that was constantly giving me this total wellbeing Right, like that's how. Like I didn't say it like that, but that's what I bought into was like well, if I have everything right, then I can control the situation. And you didn't say it like this, and that way I'll feel good all the time. And that's where people say success is. And some people say you know you're successful. Okay, great, so I've made money. Right, that's the check that box. So a lot of people have made money and a lot of people are wildly successful to two thirds of the world, right, compared to what they make, and they wouldn't feel successful. It will still different for somebody making $100 million or a billion dollars, $10 billion. They still don't feel successful.

By the way, people that have hung out with billionaires and I've had the privilege of hanging out with many, many of them they will tell you the same thing yes, they mechanically know they have money and they know they can do these things and they'd rather have money. They're not saying you shouldn't, there's nothing wrong with money. But if you're like most of these individuals still doing, they'll still tell you like, I'm still stressed about money and you're going, you have a billion dollars. Like, how are you stressed about money? It's like what if I lose it? Right, what if I go over here? And it's funny, right, as we're recording this, they just released the. I think yesterday they released the top 400 billionaires, right, and it's like they collectively dropped and somebody dropped 40 billion and over here, like this, I'm not gonna get a discussion of what too much money has different things, but you go read Elon Musk's book, and while he's created, I mean his new biography that Walter Eisen wrote and it's a fascinating read.

What I really took away from that is here's a guy who's the wealthiest, richest person in the world 240 something billion dollars in net worth. Doesn't really? It's funny, cause he wanted to be rich when you read it too. But he is miserable inside, like there was a at the end of the book. It's 17 hours and audible, so it's long. At the end of the book one of the one of the somebody asks him the question. He's like giving a speech somewhere. I think it was at a college or something. It could be off where it was, but they said, hey, as a young entrepreneur, what does somebody need to do to be the next Elon Musk? And he sat there, like he does, and paused for like a minute. He's just like a real place things in his head and he goes. I don't think anybody wants to be Elon Musk.

I don't think anybody wants to be me. The level of torture that I bring to myself and pain that I have inside is next level. And I just remember hearing that he's not. He's being honest. Right In that moment it's like I go into demon mode. I go into all these modes. I go into drama mode purely to distract myself, because it's the only way I can temporarily feel better inside. So he was.

He's a great example of somebody who's created so much and one of the most productive people on earth and added a tremendous amount of value in so many different ways. Right, and yet he's miserable inside. I mean miserable. And if he's not a suffering constantly, right, and it's. It's so. Like whenever he's not in these crisis modes, he feels like when things start to get going easy for him, he turns into having to turn things into drama so he can start to feel better inside. I heard Michael Singer say this, not about Eckhart Tolle, but about a guy that he was working with in prison, and he said you know one of the reasons why I come to you, remember this, right, yeah?

Yeah.

He said you know, one day he ended up face to face alone with this guy and he was a murderer, right Like he had murdered people. And he said, you know, I asked them straight up. I said you know, do you want to say something?

I think he was a serial killer. A serial killer, yeah.

So like he said, a famous serial killer, by the way. He said you would know his name if we said it. And he said you know why do you come to my talks? This is Michael asking him because he's always behaved in my class and always been great. And he said you know because of of sitting there talking to I don't know many, many different psychologists, psychotherapists, you know people trying to unpack who he is. He said you're the one talking to Michael, the only person that understood me. And he said you understood me because that you knew that the only way that I feel better inside was when I went and put this whole entrapment of serial killing on basically trying to do this and he goes. I know it's not right, but that's the only way that I could feel better and it was just.

I think that's the same concept with a lot of us is we're not doing it to that degree right and people obviously should you know, need to be punished. I actually heard one of the best answers that were heard from this was I heard Eckhart Tolle talking about it and people say you know? So if people are unconscious and they commit crimes, did they go in there? And they said yes, because part of the, the awakening of consciousness means that you know if you commit a crime, you go and you have an awakening because you are living out your karma almost, or living out the, the crime that you committed, and you can use that as a way to have real moments of I'm not gonna use the word enlightenment, but real moments of waking up and realizing like who you are and what you are.

And so that suffering, the part of the human level of consciousness, suffering, is the next phase of moving out of that and I always thought that was kind of a good way of kind of thinking about it for people, because they are when you, when you become unconscious, like I can think of. I know a friend who was charged like he was never a violent person, right, Any of those things no-transcript and hurt somebody right In one moment. It's never done anything like that before and his whole life turned upside down right from that and it's like he's, like I know I was wrong and I'm to pay for this, but it's like he, you know he's, he's that whole thing and it was rough track.

But Well, it's interesting just how a moment like that can be an awakening moment of realizing, wow, I've been completely unconscious what happened, and then trying to answer that question. Yeah, so I wanted to bring in something that you said in the book because I think it's pretty applicable here. But so if we're, if business and any worldly pursuit is not about doing it for the sake of doing it and building a self-concept, then like, what is it for? What do you do? And so I'm going to read something and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

So it says this is from chapter five, one consciousness, and it says building and growing a business forces us to look beyond ourselves. We've got employees, contractors, clients and all vendors all relying on us. We get to solve major challenges like layoffs and product delays. We get to create office spaces, social media posts and technology solutions. We get to say the wrong things on a public stage and learn how to navigate lawsuits. We get to provide leadership, coaching and training to employees and help clients by their first home. Business gives you all the highs and lows you would ever need to grow spiritually in this physical world. It's been a medium through which I have found I am able to express myself and experience myself in order to grow, so yeah. So then, if you're not, so, how do you? If you're doing those, you're still doing all those things, but what is the intent behind them then, and how is that playing into your spiritual growth?

Yeah, I think you use the word intent, which is really key, but to me, especially early on in my life, I started after I talked about just a spiritual being having a minor human experience. Therefore, I pointed to myself in the direction of well, I could lean away from life and try to go hide from it and probably get it more relatively okay and so that nobody has to bother me or kind of get those things. But you miss so much learning opportunities, and what I mean is you miss so many opportunities that life can give to you to show you where you have the work to do right. And so to me, business is nothing but a conduit for personal or spiritual growth. In fact, life is, but for me it just happened to be business. A lot of people listen to this. It happens to be business where try to figure out how to navigate a loss and how do you raise money and how do you deal with lawsuits and firing and hiring and all that stuff, and every one of those is gonna show you an opportunity for you to work on yourself, and that's really what. So what you're doing is you're leaning into it. Whatever's being asked, you serve at the highest level right, and it will get into. That doesn't mean passivity, it doesn't mean saying yes to everything that's not what it means but it just means whatever's in front of you, you do the best that you can serve from it and if something bothers you from the things that you're doing, then that's what you get to work on and that becomes part of the gift of life itself is to lean in there and do it. You give you this grounded example of this.

If I used to play a lot of golf, right, I got really into golf for a long period of time and let's just say anybody plays golf right, and they come in there and they hook you up and they start and they can videotape all of your golf swing and basically show you like where you need to work and what you need to do. And I got down to almost like a scratch golf. I was actually in golf digest magazine. People can look it up and see the article in there, right, all these different things. And every time I'd go in there I would go pay for somebody to go tell me all the things that I was doing wrong so I could approve Right, literally Like I would have multiple coaches. I'd go in there I'd pay $1,000 for a video analysis and they would work through me. Then I'd go back a couple of weeks later and pay the same amount Again.

I'm going in there and I'm saying I'm gonna go swing the golf club and you're gonna tell me all the areas that I'm doing wrong so I can improve on it. Is that the same thing? That life's doing, if you allow it is, I'm gonna go play with life and you're gonna show me life or business right. In this context, you're gonna show me all the things that I'm blocked. You're gonna show me all the things I need to work on to improve from a spiritual perspective. It's the same thing.

We just don't see it that way. We see it as oh, I didn't like the way that happened and my energy got thrown off. Therefore, I shouldn't have to have this on the world. Now I'm going to really change this around, and now you're bringing all of the pollution that you have inside to the outer world, and that's the problem with what most people are doing. However, the beauty about this is people are waking up to that. People are realizing I don't know if this whole spiritual thing is right, but I know what I'm doing is not wrong. That's what I feel like generally is happening right now. That's what people are saying Because they're like I don't know about spirituality or religion or this whole Buddhist thing, or like I don't want to be a monk. Right, it's like you don't have to do any of that. I'm trying to.

The book the 200% Life is actually designed to try to distill that entire thing of like. To work on yourself does not mean you go hide. It does not mean you don't have a family or a vacation or a plane. If that's what you want or nothing. If that's what you want, you can give all of your money away. At one point, right again, you can give it all away. It's still a thought. By the way, going out there and having a big house is a thought. Going out there and not having a house at all and renting is a thought. So it's either. One is just a thought from the same origin.

So what you do is you just show up in there and say world, show me what's wrong, just like I'm going to go in and pay somebody to tell me where my swing is and I'm going to work on it. I'm going to go lean into life, lean into business. So this is the answer to your question of, like, how you show up. I'm going to show up and lean into life and life I promise you will show all of us where we need to work. And just when you're thinking, you go a couple of weeks and it's pretty good, you're going great.

Somebody will send an email, somebody will get a promotion, somebody will see, something will happen. You get fired. Somebody you know like all of a sudden, like your kid you know is acting up in school, like I mean, it's thousands of things are happening and you go and you lose it and you go great, there it is. That's your next opportunity to work and that's what the whole point and purpose of life is. By the way, is the whole reason why we have this entire blanket of things that we can do in life and travel to and anything that is. We all have different natures that help the world to go around. We use that nature and we show up in life and it's going to show you where you're, where you need to work on.

So that sounds like a major shift too. It's a small one, but one of those ones that makes a huge impact is, if you're more focused on the worldly, you're chasing the successes, the good experiences, the ones that open you up and make you feel good. If you're focused on the spiritual, you're just welcoming it all because, it's all food for growth or fodder for growth.

Yes, it is right. I mean, that's really what it is. You, you said it nicely there. You just you open up to whatever shows up.

That's why I was at a.

I was coaching soccer yesterday and an individual, their son, came up to me and they were walking with their, their father, and he's like, didn't you say like everything, like need nothing, something? One of those lines and I was like we were watching you on a cause.

they must have looked it up because you know it's coaching their kid and they must have watched a video of it. And they said and they were trying to say, need nothing, enjoy everything. And it was an eight year old kid and it was pretty cute. I was like, yeah, need nothing, enjoy everything. And it's been something that I've had on my desk for many, many years, which is kind of what you need nothing, enjoy everything.

Now that loses a lot of people without an explanation. It doesn't mean need nothing is what about? And people always go. What about food? Okay, have your food, have the water. I get all those biological kind of things you need. Like, those are fine.

I'm talking about the psychological needs. Like I need to look a certain way, I need people to like me, I want to have fame, I want to make sure people see me in this certain light, I want to make sure I have a certain car, I want to make sure I keep up with this person, I want to make sure that my child is doing this. It's all about you, right? Whereas if you can just truly get to a place where, okay, I'm not going to be perfect, but I'm really going to start having this intent that I don't really need anything. That's really where it is. That's the place to go. You're not going to start off by going out there and being Tiger Woods and golf. You're going to start off swinging your club. The same thing in this when you're entering into this world of this growth, you're just going to say, okay, well, it would be really, wouldn't it be really cool, caitlin, to just not need anything but just enjoy all of life.

Most people when I say it that way, they go well, that would be pretty cool. But right, that's that. But is that's your concept, your self-concept, jumping in instantly and saying, but what about all of this stuff that you're doing? That is the voice, that is your self-concept going. Hold on, look at me, don't run away. I want you to pay attention to me because I'm more important. You go? Well, of course they are. That's when people go back into the self-concept, because the minute you even say that phrase need nothing to enjoy everything is liberating and super scary at the same time. Most people, by the way, if you gave them the opportunity, you said look, I will give you any form of enlightenment right now. Whatever you feel enlightenment is give it to you right now. Would you take it? But you have to give, you have to leave everything that you thought you were behind. And the reality is that people are really honest. They would say no.

Well, I think that's the biggest fear when you get on the spiritual journey is what am I going to have to give up to grow spiritually and personally, I feel like that first part of a spiritual journey is just wrestling with that question. And then you realize, oh, I actually don't, and the things I thought I had to give up actually in a lot of cases get better.

Better they do. And that's what we talk about in the book. We talk about the chapter three which is, like you know, the fierce competitor.

Yeah, yeah. So what you said was, rather than pushing away spirituality in the exploration of the inner self because it's too soft for the business world or you believe that you may lose your edge, and I would encourage you to reconsider I would argue that spirituality and inner work make you a fierce competitor in the business world. You are clear and conscious, your decisions are not rash. You consider the ideas, feelings and consequences of your decision before you direct others to act. You bring joy, enthusiasm, creativity and energy to your work, and if that doesn't create great employees and great companies, I don't know what it does I mean. So that's like the enhancement of everything.

Yes, it does, and in some cases it may take you in a different path. Right, it doesn't always be there, but that's what will happen is that you just become clear, and I don't think there's anybody that would rather just be clear. They would rather not have clarity in their life or see things as undisguised, because then you're truly moving in an authentic way. This whole like authenticity kind of word that's been used out there is like I'm just being authentic, no, like it's not a badge. It doesn't give you permission to go out there and be an asshole to people. Being authentic truly means that like from the deepest part is that I recognize that there's this ego inside me and that's been running my life because I've been paying attention to it. Being authentic means I'm no longer going to listen to that and I'm going to allow who you are, who you are in nature, to show up in life. Now people hear that they go. What does that even mean? Right, because this is what people initially go. It's not hard to complicate this. You don't have to overthink this. Don't go to your mind. It just means that if I'm not paying attention to the mind, I naturally will be taken care of, just like everything else in life is right now. Again, your heart beats. You can see, you can hear this, your arms grow, your fingernails grow, your hair grows, right, you get taller. Then you get older, like you're. All of this is happening and unfolding for you, right? You're not doing any of this, nobody's doing any of this, and yet that happens with 99% of life, until you get to this one thing called under eye. I don't know how it's supposed to be. So, again, we're already leaning into life many, many ways. Again, we wake up and trust that life is going to take care of our body, right? We trust that life is going to put oxygen here. We trust that there's going to be gravity holding us on here. We trust all of these things that are happening that are way more consequential than all these small personal things that we think we need to control. So why don't you just leave? So you're already doing that. That's the thing. People are already doing. This. It looks the exact same thing, but what we'll jump in there is that mind. And before we jump, I will say there's one other thing that people always I just want to make sure we put in here, because it's important is is surrender or relax, or when you go in the spiritual life. It does not mean people take advantage of you. It doesn't mean that you can't do anything outside. We're trying to really distill here. It doesn't mean you can't go have coffee or can't go have wine, or you can't go have beer or you can't, you know, do whatever it is that you want to do, it doesn't matter. Those are just the worldly things that you're doing, and if you just if you the clearer you get, then it's just. You doesn't mean you can't have dessert, right, like I just.

I remember going in Michael's singer's house and he's got. He's like I mean he's got a TV there and he's like I love watching movies. So, again, like I'm just. I'm just using him as an example because, like it's people one thing like always watching a movie. Yeah, he's like I love watching movies. So it's just. Again, you're playing with it. Or Eckhart Tolle's and Starbucks Every morning. I use that example locks, I think it's great. It's like, why are you in Starbucks? And he's like because I like drinking coffee.

And so being a spiritual person has nothing to do with what you wearing, how you're showing up, like you don't have to be, you don't have to walk around in this. You don't have to walk around in this state of giving everybody a hug every time. You see everybody. That's not it either. Like in, like, draped in like a cloth, right, you don't have to do that. Maybe that's somebody else, but it doesn't have to be you. You don't even have to say anything to anybody. You just show up and just not showing up to try to do it. So it's not even about being nice or kind, it's just you're naturally nice and kind when you're naturally yourself, so it's not about trying to be anything.

That's what I want people to take away from this is that spirit, being a spiritual person, is not taking anything away from you. In fact, what it is. It's simplifying your life so you can just enjoy the unfolding of it, because at the end of your day, when you're about to die, it's literally going to be one of those things which is did I enjoy my life? Did I work on myself? Did I enjoy my life? And I think the answer for most people is why so many people fear death Is because they're still waiting for some experience to come in to give them themselves. Well, it's right in front of you. You're just so close and paying so much attention to this self-concept or ego that you've created that you don't realize that it's sitting there behind you. It's right behind you, it's right there for you to kind of tap into. So, anyways, I think that's the we think about spirituality.

What do you want? Like this, business life versus spiritual life? Where do you start? Just watch, be aware, all the things that you've went out there and accomplished. Do you ever want something else? Right, of course you do. And you're watching. If you paid closer attention just today a little bit, watch that voice tell you to go out and do something. And if you try not doing it, by the way, and see how much to inter disturbance there is, it's like, oh, go out there and call that person or go check your phone, right, and all of a sudden you feel this inner disturbance build up and so business or worldly life is I'm going to use the world to try to compensate for how I feel. Inside A spiritual person, personal growth wakes up and says if I'm feeling that I'm going to do the work so that I no longer have to feel that that's really the main difference.