Shownotes
Otis Technology CEO Bill joins State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John for a deep talk on gun cleaning, the science behind lubricants, and why so much common maintenance advice is wrong. Bill opens with his favorite Otis tool, the Ripcord, which uses Nomex woven over the cable to handle a smoking hot barrel up to 700 degrees, and explains how he runs it through the ejection port between competition stages to stay clean. He walks through the company's story: Otis is celebrating its 40th year, founded in 1985 after Doreen Williams got the muzzle of her rifle stuck in the mud while hunting with her dad and went looking through her grandpa's World War II kit for a way to clean it. From a kitchen table to a garage to four decades of family reinvestment, Otis has supplied the U.S. military almost exclusively for the last 30 years, cleaning everything from small arms up to 155mm, and makes its commercial products on the same machines with the same people.
The heart of the episode is the WD-40 warning. Bill explains that WD stands for water displacement, the product was built around the 50s or late 40s to push water out of a mechanical part, and a gun should not have water in it to begin with. Because the viscosity is so low, it migrates everywhere. John backs it up with a story about a Columbus police officer who sprayed his service revolver with WD-40 every day with the ammunition still loaded. When the officer got into a shooting, he pulled the trigger six times and every round failed because the WD-40 had soaked into the ammunition and made the propellant inert. Bill and John also cover real maintenance habits: more lubricant is not better since excess turns to mud and can cause malfunctions, EDC guns should be cleaned every couple of months and more often in humid summer heat to fight rust, and magazine springs should not be compressed for too long so feeding stays reliable.
Bill also covers Otis kits for new owners, noting roughly 20 million new shooters have entered the space since 2019, and details three new products launched at SHOT Show: a suppressor cleaning concentrate, a muzzleloading kit, and an air gun cleaning kit. As a firearms instructor in New York, he closes on the post-Bruin legal landscape, the state's 16-hour CCW classroom requirement, and the three topics he considers most important to teach: de-escalation, situational awareness, and suicide prevention, the last tied to about 1,700 lives lost to suicide a year in New York. The episode wraps with Otis returning to GOA's GOALS event in Knoxville, Tennessee on August 9th and 10th.
Questions this episode answers
Why is WD-40 a bad choice for cleaning or lubricating a gun?
WD stands for water displacement, a product built in the late 1940s or 1950s to push water out of mechanical parts, and a gun should not have water in it to begin with. Its viscosity is so low that it migrates everywhere it shouldn't, including into places that cause problems.
What actually happens to ammunition when WD-40 soaks into it?
The low-viscosity WD-40 seeps into the cartridge and renders the propellant inert. A Columbus police officer who sprayed his loaded service revolver daily had all six rounds fail to fire during a shooting because the propellant had been deadened.
How often should you clean an everyday carry gun?
An EDC gun should be cleaned every couple of months, and more often during humid summer heat to fight rust. The goal is to keep it working, not to let it become a safe queen that never comes out.
Can you use too much lubricant on a firearm?
Yes. More lubricant is not better, because excess turns to mud and can cause malfunctions. A light, correct amount keeps the gun running reliably.
What is the story behind how Otis Technology was founded?
Otis began in 1985 after Doreen Williams got her rifle muzzle stuck in the mud while hunting with her dad and went looking through her grandpa's World War II kit for a way to clean it. It grew from a kitchen table to a garage into four decades of family-reinvested business, now in its 40th year.
What three new products did Otis launch at SHOT Show?
Otis introduced a suppressor cleaning concentrate, a muzzleloading kit, and an air gun cleaning kit. They were announced alongside CEO Bill's broader update on the company's lineup for new and existing shooters.
What does Otis teach as the most important parts of a CCW class?
As a firearms instructor in New York, Bill teaches three topics as most important: de-escalation, situational awareness, and suicide prevention. The suicide focus is tied to roughly 1,700 lives lost to suicide a year in New York.
Why should you avoid compressing your magazine springs for too long?
Magazine springs should not stay compressed for extended periods so that feeding stays reliable. Leaving them under load too long can work against consistent function.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Bill from Otis
- 00:35 — Rapid fire: favorite cleaning tool, the Ripcord
- 01:32 — Content creators and bucket list gun
- 02:54 — Life as a gun owner in New York after Bruin
- 06:31 — Who is Otis: 40 years and the 1985 founding
- 08:28 — What kept Otis going for 40 years
- 11:02 — Kits and advice for first-time gun owners
- 15:07 — Are the products safe on finishes and corrosive propellants
- 16:37 — What makes a good lubricant, and CLP explained
- 20:08 — EDC habits, lint, and carry storage advice
- 21:37 — The WD-40 myth and the failed revolver story
- 24:02 — From the Soapbox: three new SHOT Show products
- 28:25 — How often you really should clean your guns
- 30:42 — CCW myths, use of force, and New York law
- 36:38 — Where to find Otis and GOALS in Knoxville
About the guest
Bill is the CEO of Otis Technology, a position he has held for about the last three years. Otis is celebrating its 40th year, having started in 1985 when Doreen Williams looked for a way to clean a muzzle that got stuck in the mud while hunting with her dad. Bill is also a competitive shooter and a firearms instructor who teaches CCW classes in New York State. His surname is given in the episode as Cleftis [VERIFY].
Key quotes
"That's what WD stands for is water displacement." — Bill
"And the WD40 had soaked into the ammunition and made the propellant inert." — John
"first thing I would say that if some lubricant is good, more is not better." — Bill
"We're celebrating our 40th year this year. And it all started in 1985." — Bill
"the last thing you want to do is have your EDC be a safe queen where it's just sitting in the safe and never comes out." — Bill
"we've been supplying the US military almost exclusively for the last 30 years." — Bill
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kayleigh.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Bill from Otis Technologies.
Speaker B:He's the CEO.
Speaker B:Bill, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker C:Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker C:I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker C:A lot of good stuff I'm sure we'll be able to get into.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm super excited to have you on the gun wall behind you is just making me jealous.
Speaker B:You get cool stuff behind you and we get our cool studio.
Speaker B:So let's dive into it.
Speaker B:So our first segment of the day is rapid fire questions is when we ask you five question, you can answer them as quickly or slowly as you'd like.
Speaker B:The first question I have for you is what is your favorite cleaning implement from Otis?
Speaker C:I'd have to say the ripcord.
Speaker C:One of the things I like about the ripcord is, you know, it was designed with the thought that you could have a smoking hot gun.
Speaker C:So regardless of the temperature, the Nomex that we weave over the, the rip cord is good to 700 degrees.
Speaker C:Not to be confused with other products that, that are out there in the marketplace that may potentially melt in your barrel.
Speaker C:But whenever I shoot competitively between stages, I'll, I'll throw my ripcord through, through the ejection port of my pistol and, and make sure that I'm at the next stage with, with a clean pistol.
Speaker C:So yeah, that was pretty easy.
Speaker C:Hopefully a little tougher than that.
Speaker B:That that was, that's my answer too.
Speaker B:The rip cords are amazing.
Speaker B:I have like seven of them and I use them very often.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:So what content creator in the gun space do you most frequent in watching?
Speaker C:Tim Kennedy is a huge, huge, I think a lot of content that he creates.
Speaker C:I use it for some of the CCW classes that I do.
Speaker C:He has some, some, some really good presentation and some of the, some of the stuff that, that he puts on there is really appropriate for both new as well as advanced shooters.
Speaker C:So I, I find his content pretty, pretty, pretty good.
Speaker C:Also.
Speaker C:Mike Sieg Lander is another out of Oklahoma.
Speaker C:Does a lot of great stuff.
Speaker C:Really breaks down a lot of the skill sets into mini drills.
Speaker C:So really, really I think right on when it comes to trying to take, take, take the, you know, the whole sequence of, of presenting a firearm and breaking it down drills.
Speaker B:What is your bucket list gun bucket list gun?
Speaker C:Well, you know, living in New York state, there's a big long list of guns that I'd like to have that I Can't have probably.
Speaker C:My bucket gun list is a 300 blackout SBR suppressed with subsonic ammunition.
Speaker B:That's a good one.
Speaker A:Since you're on the topic of living in New York, how is your life post all of the Supreme Court cases?
Speaker C:Well, you know, the rest of the country enjoys some of the benefits that the Supreme Court has, has, has made decisions, you know, especially after the Bruin case.
Speaker C:Unfortunately in New York we're actually paying a much higher price.
Speaker C:The legislature and the governor here in New York State actually made things a lot worse for, for people wanting to exercise their second Amendment.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's, it's been disappointing and certainly there's a number of challenges that have occurred, but not fast enough.
Speaker C:And quite frankly I'm surprised that the Supreme Court hasn't invoked like a judicial review going forward because quite frankly, you know, New York state essentially kind of gave, gave the Supreme Court the middle finger after, after the Bruin decision.
Speaker C:So we, the hope is that the Supreme Court does take some action on some of the things that we're still suffering from here in New York.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know there's been a lot of subsequent lawsuits after your governor's.
Speaker A:I don't even know if retaliation is a strong enough word for the oppressive regime that went in after, after they lost.
Speaker C:Well, and it's not her alone.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean we have, unfortunately we're a one party state.
Speaker C:Both the assembly and the Senate as the majority are Democrats.
Speaker C:So you know, some of it, a third of the legislators are in the five boroughs of New York State.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Sorry, in the five, in the five boroughs, a third of the legislators are from there.
Speaker C:So it's tough when you have the other four or five upstate cities along with Albany and, and the five boroughs in New York.
Speaker C:It makes it very difficult to get some of the, that we live by and certainly in northern New York to, to get any attention.
Speaker B:So my, my last question's a little fun one.
Speaker B:Why is the New York reload so important?
Speaker C:New York reload?
Speaker C:Well, you know, I tell people, well the, the fact that we're limited to, to 10 rounds, I tell all my buddies out of state that we're really good at changing mags.
Speaker C:So you know, you guys have been getting lazy with 30 round magazines, but we're really good at 10 round magazine changes.
Speaker C:So yeah, we get that down to a science now.
Speaker B:I had to get a funny one in there.
Speaker B:Kaylee, like most Americans, you have a savings account, right?
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker B:Do you have an ammo savings account?
Speaker B:I also do and is that through Ammo Squared.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:And I've had it for over two years.
Speaker B:Ammo Squared is the only website where you can purchase ammo a little bit at a time and then get it shipped directly to your door.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I have a little bit of money that goes in every month and then I can divide what percentage of that money is used for what calibers of ammo.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden I hit a thousand rounds and it gets shipped to my door.
Speaker B:Well, what if I don't want one of the 70 calibers they have available?
Speaker A:You get to pick and choose and you can even adjust them out so that you can hit your target goals faster.
Speaker B:Well, what if I don't want that ammo anymore?
Speaker B:Can I switch it?
Speaker B:Can I get my money back?
Speaker A:Yes, it's really easy.
Speaker A:And I always like to see the graph fill up at the end of every month.
Speaker B:So where do I go to get such an awesome service?
Speaker A:Go to ammo squared.com.
Speaker B:Get it.
Speaker B:Now start your ammo savings [email protected].
Speaker B:Tell us who you are, what you do at Otis, what is Otis, the history of the company, all that stuff.
Speaker C:Sure, sure.
Speaker C:So my name is Bill Cleftis.
Speaker C:I've been the CEO here for about the last three.
Speaker C:As many have known that Otis has been in business.
Speaker C:We're celebrating our 40th year this year.
Speaker C: And it all started in: Speaker C:Doreen Williams was hunting with her dad and accidentally had got the muzzle of her rifle stuck in the, in the dirt, in the mud.
Speaker C:And that was the end of the hunting trip.
Speaker C:And when that, when she got home and had to figure out, well, how do I clean the gun?
Speaker C:How do I clean the mud out of my gun?
Speaker C:She went into grandpa's kit of various things from World War II and found a device that, hey, let's do this.
Speaker C:Let's clean the barrel with this.
Speaker C:And one thing led to another.
Speaker C:They started off at the kitchen table, then into the garage.
Speaker C:And after 40 years of investment, the family has poured the money back into this business.
Speaker C:The other thing is we've been supplying the US military almost exclusively for the last 30 years.
Speaker C:So we make everything from small arms to 25 millimeter, 40 millimeter, all the way up to 155.
Speaker C:So we, we clean a lot of things for the US Military.
Speaker C:And, and that's, that's been why our reputation has been of a high quality, reliable product.
Speaker C:Because it's been battle proven products that have carried us all this time.
Speaker C:And our commercial products are made the Same, same machines, the same skill set and the same people that, that make it for the military also make it for commercial units.
Speaker B:So you guys are celebrating 40 years like you mentioned.
Speaker B:You know, what was, what puts in the longevity of Otis?
Speaker B:Why, you know, you guys are around for 40 years.
Speaker B:How has it been over those 40 years and the growth of the company?
Speaker C:Well, I mean, strong family values.
Speaker C:You know, Doreen or her dad were, you know, first, were first.
Speaker C:The first two to really, you know, push the product and make it what it is.
Speaker C:But she also the rest of the family, her two brothers and her and her and her sister had separate different responsibilities within the organization, but working together to make it what it is.
Speaker C:And a lot of family values, a lot of, A lot of care and the people that, that worked work here for, for Otis over the, over the 40 year period.
Speaker C:And you know, we have, we've had ups and downs.
Speaker C:You know, clearly, you know, there are times, sometimes it seems to coincide with certain, certain administrations out there on the commercial side of the business.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, Barack Obama was probably our best salesman because everybody got scared on, you know, whether it's guns or gun cleaning equipment, Barack Obama did a lot for it.
Speaker C:But also the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:With so many, half a million troops being deployed in combat areas, fortunately or unfortunately, they also need the accessories that go around with the equipment that they're using.
Speaker C:So I think it's a combination of things.
Speaker C:But one of the things I do have to say is that the family has been good at when times were great, they made the investments here in the business as well as sharing that with a lot of the employees that worked here as well.
Speaker C:So great values, great company, great products.
Speaker C:Yeah, everything.
Speaker C:To me, it's been really easy when you think about it.
Speaker C:It hasn't had to be a kind of turnaround situation that sometimes you step into as a CEO.
Speaker C:So it's really just making sure that we're in alignment, doing all the right things.
Speaker C:But I've got a great team and great, great products to have to, to, to manage.
Speaker C:So that, that's, that's really been the success here at Otis.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So for those that have just kind of started into the gun space and may, you know, fall in that first time gun owner or maybe they bought a gun and it kind of sat in their closet for a while.
Speaker A:Now they're, they're getting into more of that active participation in their gun rights.
Speaker A:What are some, you know, kits that you have or some information that you have that's helpful for that group of people.
Speaker C:Yeah, so I think that, you know, there's, obviously we have some things as simple as a single caliber kit.
Speaker C:If someone is new to let's say a 9 millimeter pistol, we have a 9 millimeter pistol kit that they can buy.
Speaker C:Some variations to it.
Speaker C:Some are simply a, a pull through cable approach or maybe a pull through cable and a solid rod approach or maybe solid rod only.
Speaker C:But we also have, if they, if they're anticipating that they're going to expand their hobby and because I tell people you can't just buy one gun, you got to buy lots of guns.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if you're going to do that, it may behoove you to buy some of our larger kits like our elite case that has lots of different calibers.
Speaker C:So there's, we have a wide spectrum of products that, that will suit every, every gun owner, new or experienced.
Speaker C:And you know, you're right, the new, the new shooters are really the, you know, every, every year we've got millions of, of new shooters that come into the space.
Speaker C:Whether they're hunting or target practice or competing.
Speaker C: You know, since: Speaker C:And you know, we want to make sure that they are at least aware of who Otis is, what we have to offer and then they can make an informed decision.
Speaker C:You know, unfortunately there's a lot of product out there that is, you know, comes from some low cost countries that you kind of get what you pay for and you know, if, if you're, if you're making the investment and you're spending hundreds of dollars on a firearm, you know, our products aren't that expensive where you know, you should use something that you're going to have for a long time and last forever.
Speaker C:So you know, it's for us, we have everything for everybody I guess is my, my primary message.
Speaker A:Yeah, so talk a little bit more about like your all's founding especially as we've seen, you know, women become the fastest, fastest growing demographic within new gun ownership.
Speaker A:Talk about, you know, where, where Otis started from.
Speaker C:Well, you know, it's, it's at first it was you know, rifle type kits and so forth, but I think that you know, there's been an explosion of, of, you know, when you look over the last 40 years, I mean there's been a lot of innovation, a lot of variation of firearms that are out there.
Speaker C: I mean back in: Speaker C:So obviously Starting in that space in the commercial world would not have been an appropriate pathway to select.
Speaker C:But today you look at the number of AR15s that are out there and lots of different variations, lots of clever modifications that, you know, didn't exist.
Speaker C:Pistols, the same thing.
Speaker C: I mean the number of: Speaker C: Back in: Speaker C:Match grade.
Speaker C:45 Was the, was the choice.
Speaker C:And everybody was shooting 45s back back then, you know, 9 millimeters.
Speaker C: You know,: Speaker C:So, so certainly there's been the transition of calibers to the 9, which is probably the most prolific caliber in the semi automatics today.
Speaker B:So you're cleaning products.
Speaker B:We know them, we love them.
Speaker B:Can you touch in like, are they safe on finishes?
Speaker B:Are they good with corrosive propellants?
Speaker B:Things that a lot of new shooters may not know.
Speaker B:And when they're looking for stuff, that's something they're looking at.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I'd say with the lubricants and the CLP and the different types of things that we do, we are shooters.
Speaker C:So we ourselves test these products both in a laboratory type setting where to make sure that we do tests to make sure that any kind of new formulation we would come up with doesn't have a deleterious effect on both the finish or the operation of the firearm.
Speaker C:A lot of the products that we sell we've been using for many, many years and haven't changed the formulations.
Speaker C:We've also looked at some formulations used in other industries like in the aircraft industry, and look to see how those chemicals work in that environment and whether it's something that we can utilize in our product offering as well.
Speaker C:So, you know, the true test is a test of time.
Speaker C:And you know, over time one would actually know whether you had a, a negative impact on a firearm.
Speaker C:We of course are looking on what can we do to have a positive impact on, on the space that we're serving.
Speaker B:Now when it comes to like lubricants and things like that, you know, what makes a good lubricant, what makes a good cleaning product.
Speaker B:And you know, is there a difference?
Speaker B:Because when you're first getting out into the firearm space or if they're new to this, you know, what really should they be looking for when it comes to a lubricant?
Speaker B:And cleaning product.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's, that's a good point.
Speaker C:So first thing I would say that if some lubricant is good, more is not better.
Speaker C:I think a lot of mistakes that new gun owners make is that, you know, they're thinking, well let me make sure that I put a lot of lubricant in so I don't have a problem.
Speaker C:The problem is the extra lubricant that you add turns into mud if you put too much into it and can sometimes cause a malfunction as a consequence.
Speaker C:So owner's manuals of, of at least modern day firearms are pretty specific on, on exactly how much lubricant to add and where to add it.
Speaker C:The other thing that you have to be aware of is so we have both cleaning products and lubrication products.
Speaker C:We have grease that we sell as well.
Speaker C:But you want to make sure that your, you're applying the products in, in the appropriate location.
Speaker C:So let's talk about cleaning for example.
Speaker C:So today ourselves along with a whole bunch of other folks have what they call clp.
Speaker C:So it cleans, lubricates and protects.
Speaker C:It's an all in one type of product.
Speaker C:We also have some other products that have separated where we have one that's best.
Speaker C:If you want just a cleaning only product or if you want a lubrication product or one that you use for protection.
Speaker C:A lot of people have their own methodology that they use.
Speaker C:We certainly have recommendations and we have lots of videos that cover a lot of the, the details for our products.
Speaker C:But I think what happens with, with new shooters, the recommendation is definitely look at our, our, our YouTube channel and some of the YouTube videos that we have that are associated with our products.
Speaker C:In fact, the, a lot of our new packaging now we've added with a QR code so that all you have to do is snap it with your camera and you're able to get at least a short on, on what, what the recommendation is and, and then from there you can get more detail going on our website.
Speaker C:I think the challenge on the people that have been around for a while, they develop a methodology of how to clean their firearms and they're the tough ones to try to convince.
Speaker C:Hey, you really need change.
Speaker C:You know, you might want to think about changing how you clean your gun and use these products in this way type of thing because we are sometimes creatures of habit and you know, a lot of times people don't like to clean their gun.
Speaker C:It's kind of a pain.
Speaker C:But I can tell you that if you have an edc.
Speaker C:I tell my folks that, that take my CCW class.
Speaker C:If there's a gun that you're going to clean every time you use it, it's going to be your edc.
Speaker C:And even if you haven't shot it for a couple of months, you know, they collect lint, they collect dust.
Speaker C:You need to make sure that that firearm is in tip top shape in the event that you think you're going to need it.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's, there's lots of opportunities to learn from our website as well as our products on the, on some of the finer details.
Speaker C:Whether it's a semi automatic, a revolver, single shot, we've got products for all.
Speaker B:I love that you brought up the EDC and the link collecting.
Speaker B:I've seen some horrible guns in my day.
Speaker B:One may have had a half a tube of lipstick up the barrel that I had to clean out.
Speaker B:But yes, definitely clean your edc.
Speaker B:You're giving me that look like wow, yes.
Speaker B:This is a real thing.
Speaker B:This is a story.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:It was filled with lipstick, lint and hard candy stuck to it.
Speaker B:And I cleaned it.
Speaker C:It's funny, it's, it's, they threw it.
Speaker B:In their part so they literally somebody through.
Speaker B:It was a lcp, a little gun they just threw in their purse.
Speaker C:Yeah, I, I, it's funny you say that.
Speaker C:I, I am not an advocate of women using purses for their EDC because the purse isn't always on your body.
Speaker C:If you're going to carry, you carry 24 7.
Speaker C:A purse is not one that you carry 24 7.
Speaker C:But the recommendation, if they do decide to wear a purse, I tell them make sure that that compartment has only one thing and that's your gun.
Speaker C:Same thing with guys that carry it in their pocket.
Speaker C:If you're going to have.
Speaker C:So it's funny, in the summertime I may carry, if I wear cargo shorts, I may have my, my EDC in my pocket in a sticky holster.
Speaker C:But I have a, I usually have a knife in my right pocket, but I have another knife that has the tang on the other side.
Speaker C:So I put the knife in my left pocket to make sure that there's nothing interfering with my edc.
Speaker C:In my right pocket.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I do the same.
Speaker B:The same.
Speaker B:So I gotta go into this myth because you're a gun Cleaning Company.
Speaker B:WD40 is a great product, but why should we not put WD40 on our guns?
Speaker C:So one of the things WD40 was designed, I believe in the 50s or maybe late 40s.
Speaker C:And it was really just for water displacement.
Speaker C:That's what WD stands for is water displacement.
Speaker C:And where you're basically displacing water in a mechanical part that then, and, and then having it replaced with a lubricant.
Speaker C:Well, your gun doesn't have water or shouldn't have water.
Speaker C:So WD40 to start is not the right choice.
Speaker C:The other is that, you know, again, it's, it's, it hasn't been proven.
Speaker C:I mean, it, it might be something in a pinch.
Speaker C:I mean, if, if the gun goes dry and the only thing you have maybe WD40.
Speaker C:But I wouldn't recommend that if you're prepared to make sure that your gun is reliable, you're not going to use WD40.
Speaker C:I mean, even the guys out in that were deployed overseas, they're using diesel fuel.
Speaker C:If they, if they have nothing, they're going to use diesel fuel or JP8 or transmission fluid or whatever to make sure that they have something that's operational.
Speaker C:Something is better than Nothing.
Speaker C:But yeah, WD40.
Speaker C:Boo.
Speaker B:Do I have a story?
Speaker B:This is from an old cop friend of mine.
Speaker B:So there was a Columbus police officer who would spray his gun every day.
Speaker B:His revolt, his service revolver with WD40 with ammunition still in it, by the way.
Speaker C:Oh my God.
Speaker B:He'd spray it every day.
Speaker B:He'd be like, I'm cleaning it, making it look nice.
Speaker B:So he ended up getting into a shooting and he pulled the trigger six times.
Speaker B:And each time the round didn't go off.
Speaker B:Well, they found out they pulled the bullets afterwards.
Speaker B:And the WD40 had soaked into the ammunition and made the propellant inert.
Speaker B:So WD40 is one of those things where I go, do not put WD40 on your gun, please.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a great, that's a great story.
Speaker C:Because, you know, the problem with WD40 is the viscosity is so low, it's going to migrate everywhere.
Speaker C:And to your point, it managed to get behind the primer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because it's designed to penetrate and displace water.
Speaker B:So use Otis gun lube, not WD40.
Speaker A:So now is the time of the show where we go into our spicier topics.
Speaker A:So this segment is called from the Soapbox.
Speaker A:So do you have any hot takes for us today?
Speaker C:Hot takes?
Speaker C:Well, one thing that.
Speaker C:So at Shot show, we released three new products that have been something that, that our customers have asked for and the, the response has been huge.
Speaker C:So the first one is our suppressor cleaning kit.
Speaker C:So we have a new suppressor cleaner that has, has had a huge demand as a consequence.
Speaker C:We've done a bit of research.
Speaker C:We quite frankly, we used to supply a product that, to the US military that, that you know, in a much broader, larger sense.
Speaker C:But here we came out with a product that, you know, the commercial world can have, have a similar type of cleaning operation in a, in a canister with all the, all the, all the things that they need.
Speaker C:It's a, it's a concentrate that they need to dilute.
Speaker C:Has a wide range of applications.
Speaker C:We always recommend test the surface first, but we do know that it has a wide range of use because there are a lot of different manufacturers out there of suppressors that are made of, constructed of different, different products, different materials.
Speaker C:The second thing that we had is a muzzle loading kit.
Speaker C:So muzzle loading for us is relatively new.
Speaker C:We have, we recognize it, it's a, it's an adjacent space.
Speaker C:And much like archery, muzzleloading is just another form of hunting in the fall.
Speaker C:You know, we're already in rifles that are out there, so, you know, it only made sense for us to get involved in the muzzleloading spectrum.
Speaker C:And then the third is our, our air gun cleaning kit.
Speaker C:New product for us that, you know, the, which is a great, I mean I have a number of air guns myself just to use as training tools in the basement so I don't have to, I don't actually have to shoot live ammo in the house.
Speaker C:I can use, use, you know, an airsoft type of firearm and be able to, you know, make sure that I'm practicing at all the time.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:A lot of dry fire or in this case, air gun fire.
Speaker C:So the, the kit that we supplies supply with some silicone along with some other other things for, you know, cleaning your, cleaning your air gun kit.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's, that's something that I learned the hard way.
Speaker B:Air guns do not take regular gun oil.
Speaker B:They eat away at the rubber seals.
Speaker B:And then you have no air gun, it don't work no more because there's nothing to seal it.
Speaker B:So the muzzle is interesting because that is a totally different animal.
Speaker B:Black powders are corrosive, as a lot of people know.
Speaker B:I know P Decks is there's some substitutes out there that's making it a little bit better.
Speaker B:But that's something that a lot of people don't look as firearms adjacent because it is old technology.
Speaker B:And you guys coping into the black powder game, into that muzzle loading game is, is kind of a breath of fresh air kind of, but also surprising.
Speaker B:But it being so adjacent, even though the technology is so old.
Speaker B:It is interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, you know, it, I mean, you look at some of the new firearms today, you know, some of these centerline firearms, I won't mention any names, but you know, they're, they're, they're capable of one MOA accuracy.
Speaker C:Just amazing.
Speaker C:And, and you know, if you're maintaining those firearms and have repeatability with a 1 moa, it to me, it's kind of a new area for me.
Speaker C:I've only recently got into muzzleloading myself.
Speaker C:I've got muzzleloading pistols as well.
Speaker C:But yeah, I, I think it's, I think it's a, it's a great opportunity for us to infiltrate into that market segment.
Speaker B:Yeah, my.
Speaker B:One of the first guns I shot was a 50 cal muzzle loader and it was so much fun.
Speaker B:That is a totally different game in animal and it's a blast.
Speaker B:I want to get spicy here for a second because I am that guy.
Speaker B:How often should we clean our guns?
Speaker B:Because I don't clean mine enough.
Speaker B:I clean my, my carry gun every, every couple months that it's rotated through, but I will not clean my gun.
Speaker B:So what is the recommended service life of in between cleanings?
Speaker C:Well, I, you kind of hit it.
Speaker C:My recommendation has always been every couple of months for an EDC because for two reasons.
Speaker C:One is depending on the time of year and where you live, you're absolutely going to have sweating.
Speaker C:If, you know, I personally, I carry ed, I carry appendix carry.
Speaker C:So you definitely in the summertime, if, if it's humid, you're going to have, you're going to be sweating and that gun is going to get, can get rusty if you don't take care of the firearm.
Speaker C:So it may be that two months may not be good enough.
Speaker C:In the summertime, you may have to get at it, you know, every week or every two weeks at least the exterior surfaces of it.
Speaker C:The other thing that I tell people, and especially those that don't shoot frequently, is that at least the cleaning of the gun familiarizes yourself with the firearm and how it activates.
Speaker C:And the last thing you want to do is have your EDC be a safe queen where it's just sitting in the safe and never comes out.
Speaker C:Then you absolutely don't know how it operates.
Speaker C:So cleaning is almost in addition to just cleaning.
Speaker C:It's a familiarization with the firearm as well.
Speaker C:Sometimes I think that, and again, it depends on the environment.
Speaker C:But I think that again, I think the risk of rust.
Speaker C:Rust is a problem.
Speaker C:The other thing is that you should be changing your magazines at least.
Speaker C:No, no more than every two months.
Speaker C:Because if you, if you compress that that magazine spring for a long period of time, the first one or two shots may, may be fine, but the last one or two now when you have no more spring tension left may be a problem of it feeding into the, into the, into the chamber.
Speaker C:So you know, there's lots of reasons why you want to at least maintain, maintain your EDC and make sure that it's in in top form.
Speaker B:So besides being the, the CEO of Otis, you are also a competitive shooter and a firearms instructor.
Speaker B:As a firearms instructor, you know what are some of the biggest myths and misnomers that come in especially being in the state of the state of New York that come into any of your classes or anything like that?
Speaker C:Well, I think that probably so one of the things.
Speaker C:Just let me just back up for a second.
Speaker C: uence of the Bruin act in, in: Speaker C:But there was one thing and I was a little taken back when the first came out orig order to get your CCW permit in New York State.
Speaker C: st of: Speaker C:They identified a four page document from the Justice Department, New York State Justice Department.
Speaker C:16 Hours of classroom requirements with specific topics and specific time frames for each of those topics along with a two hour live fire requirement for everyone taking a class.
Speaker C:There were three things that were identified as requirements that I believe are even more important than the firearm and that is de escalation techniques, situational awareness and suicide prevention.
Speaker C:Those three things alone, quite frankly, and I spend a lot of time on those are to me more important than any of the other firearm stuff because quite frankly you can look at YouTube, you can look at other stuff, but some of those, those three topics alone maybe may be able to save your life by whether you're avoiding situations that are high risk.
Speaker C: in New York state it's about: Speaker C:So those are what I would think are three more so three most important things.
Speaker C:The other thing is when we talk about use of force or use of deadly force, the probably the biggest thing is you mean I can't just shoot somebody that comes in through the door?
Speaker C:No, there's a number of criteria that you have to make sure and, and, and the, the key is you Know, unfortunately, people are going to make decisions by whatever limited inputs that they're receiving, either visually or auditory, whatever, and they're going to have to be forced to make a decision on whether to pull the trigger or not.
Speaker C:So I ask everyone a question at the beginning of class.
Speaker C:Why are you taking this class?
Speaker C:And most of the time it's, well, I wanted it for personal protection, right?
Speaker C:Wanted EDC or.
Speaker C:Well, I live in the state of New York and I don't know if I'll ever be able to have one again in the future if I don't do it now.
Speaker C:But then I ask him at the end of the class, how many of you have changed your mind that whether you're going to be carrying like you thought you were going to carry in the beginning of this class?
Speaker C:Because I go through a lot of scenario building and the burden and the responsibility that each of us that are carrying need to be aware of.
Speaker C:And it sometimes turns some people off or at least they have to reassess.
Speaker C:They're thinking about reassessing kind of what, what they plan on doing with that, with that firearm.
Speaker C:So that's, those are probably the key points, key take, takeaway points from a CCW training standpoint.
Speaker B:No, and that makes sense.
Speaker B:You know, I used to teach CCW classes.
Speaker B:We used to go into the, the, the myths and things like that.
Speaker B:We had a lot of people who would, well, I'm getting the gun and I, I can do what I want with it.
Speaker B:Does New York, New York State doesn't recognize, do they recognize Castle doctrine?
Speaker C:Well,.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker C:Not, not, not the same way that Florida does.
Speaker C:There, there, there are restrictions.
Speaker C:You don't have a duty to retreat if you are within your home type of thing.
Speaker C:But, you know, the problem is, and this is, this is what I, one of the things that I tell folks is that the biggest challenge that all of us have in an armed conflict is the test on whether what we, what we think was reasonable versus what the jury thinks is reasonable.
Speaker C:So that the key word there is reasonable.
Speaker C:And every county is going to have a different da, you know, so what they do here up in Jefferson or Lewis county is different than what they're going to do in the counties that surround the big cities in New York.
Speaker C:So at the end of the day, you're going to be judged by jury of peers.
Speaker C:And, you know, you're going to have, if you're traveling through the state or you're traveling into another state where you might have the ability to carry, I always point that out and Again, those are the, those are the burdens that we have to deal with.
Speaker C:The other thing is Letitia James and the insurance commissioner, along with Governor Hochul basically outlawed the use of the NRA Carry Guard insurance.
Speaker C:So in New York State, there is no insurance for people that own firearms.
Speaker C:If they wanted to buy insurance in the event of a active shooting situation and defending yourself, they're on their own nowadays.
Speaker C:So again, it's, it's, it's kind of the, the world we live in up here at New York.
Speaker B:Bill, we appreciate you being on.
Speaker B:Go ahead and shout out anywhere people can find you guys, where to look and all that other stuff.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:Well, anyone that's interested in knowing more about us and the products that we have, please reach out to [email protected] lots of products, lots of opportunities to improve the way you clean your guns.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:As a thank you, we have our sponsor, aacm.
Speaker B:Palmetto State Armory has sponsored our gift for our guests.
Speaker B:So you will be receiving a gift from Palmetto State army and AC Ammo as a thank you for being on the show with us.
Speaker B:We are super excited to have Otis back at Goals this year in Knoxville, Tennessee August 9th and 10th.
Speaker B:We appreciate you guys hopping back on.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Good to have you guys support for the show again for the second year, guys.
Speaker B:Make sure to like share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification again.
Speaker B:Goals is coming up in August in Knoxville, Tennessee, August 9th and 10th.
Speaker B:Go to Gunowners.
Speaker B:Org Goals to get your tickets today.
Speaker B:It is free to every GOA member.
Speaker B:Go preregister and we will see you guys in Knoxville.
