Brand leadership expert, author, and speaker Denise Lee Yohn explains what it means to have "brand as business", why you’re ALWAYS representing not one, but two brands, and the importance of having an integrated approach.
Denise Lee Yohn, she is a speaker, her book is called What
Host:Great Brands Do, The Seven Brand Building Principles That
Host:Separate the Best From the Rest. She's been the lead strategist
Host:for advertising agencies for Burger King and Land Rover, Jack
Host:in the Box. She went on to head Sony Electronics, their first
Host:ever brand office, Frito Lay and Oakley, and Denise, thanks for
Host:being here.
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Thanks for that great introduction.
Host:So just kind of, first of all, you know, obviously you've
Host:got, you have the background and the pedigree of, you know,
Host:working with the big brands and everything. What caused you to
Host:write the book? How did you, why did you even say, Yeah, I want
Host:to, I want to go ahead and turn this into a book?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Yeah, well, I, you know, I should start by
Host:saying that I love brands. I'm passionate about them. I've been
Host:studying them for years. I've been working on them. You know,
Host:as a consumer, I'm fascinated by them, and as a professional, I'm
Host:even more fascinated and so, you know, certainly I, you know,
Host:this is a topic that I want to share my thoughts on. But more
Host:specifically, I feel like there's a lot of
Host:misunderstanding about how great brands and big brands get to be
Host:so successful. And so I wanted to share what I had learned from
Host:my research and work about what great brands do.
Host:You talk about this concept, it's called brand as
Host:business.
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Yeah. Well, maybe it would be helpful to
Host:contrast that to brand as logo or brand as name or brand as
Host:tagline, marketing, advertising, PR, website, whatever you know.
Host:I think that a lot of people, when they think about brand,
Host:they think about those elements which are really, I would call
Host:them expressions, or ways to communicate your brand, but your
Host:brand is your business if you are, if you are using your brand
Host:correctly. And so brand as businesses, is simply a phrase
Host:to kind of say, you know, there should be no separation. There
Host:should be no difference between how you're managing developing
Host:and growing your brand as how you're managing developing and
Host:growing your business. And a lot of it has to do with your
Host:culture, you know, inside your organization, has to do with the
Host:actual customer experience that you're providing, and, you know,
Host:your company operations and strategies, what you actually
Host:do. So it's really a very, I think, more comprehensive thing
Host:than people want to think of just a brand as, I mean, you
Host:know, think about like Apple, you know, Apple has, what,
Host:millions of fans around the world. I don't think any of them
Host:love Apple because they've got a great logo, or even that, you
Host:know, that they have great advertising, and they have some
Host:really cool creative advertising that I think, really, you know,
Host:rallies people and gets people hooked. But it's really the
Host:Apple products and the Apple stores and the apple community,
Host:and the Apple apps, all you know, all of that is what makes
Host:Apple Apple, and that's what the Apple brand is.
Host:What do you think is different kind of if you you
Host:look at this approach that you call brand as business?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: I think that, you know, it probably starts
Host:with the first principle in my book, what great brands do. The
Host:first principle is great brands start inside, meaning that they
Host:start brand building by cultivating a strong brand led
Host:culture inside their companies. And that also means that that
Host:means that they are saving, communicating, expressing their
Host:brand through things like a logo or a marketing campaign for
Host:after they've actually created this strong culture inside. So
Host:it's really about being more more focused on on how you're
Host:running your business, why you're running business, what
Host:are the values and attributes that you want to be known for
Host:and that you are really cultivating among everyone who
Host:works on your brand? And that's where you start. And then once
Host:you've got that to a point where you feel like, okay, we're
Host:really creating value here, then you go out and you start working
Host:on your external image.
Host:So do you think that's one of the big mistakes that people
Host:make, is they do those in reverse order?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Absolutely. I mean, you know, how many times
Host:do we read about, like, when a corporation is in trouble, and
Host:the first thing they do is, oh, we're going to launch a brand
Host:campaign, or we're going to change our name or refresh our
Host:logo, and, you know, and I'm not saying that those things aren't
Host:important, but I think that, you know, customers are pretty savvy
Host:these days, and, you know, a new logo or a new tagline, those
Host:things are kind of like, you Know, dime a dozen, and people
Host:really want to know, okay, what, what are you doing that's
Host:different, you know, what, what value are you creating for me?
Host:Why should I pay attention to you? And the, you know, the
Host:external image is only a part of that.
Host:How does personal branding fit into this?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: You know, I think within a corporation, you
Host:know, you are in charge of your career, right? And I spent 15
Host:plus years in the corporate world, so I know you know how
Host:hard it is to, you know, shape your career and pursue your
Host:individual career goals at the same time supporting and, you
Host:know, pursuing your company's objectives. And. I think that
Host:you know you need to be very cognizant of what you are known
Host:for within an organization so that you can accomplish those
Host:goals and and a lot of that has to do with, again, the value
Host:that you create, the projects that you sign up to, to work on,
Host:the way that you conduct yourself in meetings. And you
Host:know a lot, I think, unfortunately, some personal
Host:branding experts are much more focused, again, on your image.
Host:You know, how do you what does your avatar look like on social
Host:media? And you know, you know, and how do you dress? And again,
Host:those things are important. But I wouldn't be advising both
Host:within a corporation as well as a small business owner or an
Host:individual consultant that it's really you need to focus on, you
Host:know, what value you're creating and how are you doing business
Host:that's distinctive, and, you know, memorable and compelling,
Host:and you know, and as a salesperson, I think that you
Host:are, when you go and you call on a customer, you're not only you,
Host:you're representing two brands, your own brand and your company
Host:brand. And I, and I would venture to guess that most
Host:buyers are, you know, basing a, you know, buying decision on
Host:both of those brands. You know, it's they want to know. Is this
Host:person that I them sitting, you know, across the table from, you
Host:know, do I like them? Do I respect them? Do I trust them?
Host:But then, and then, in addition, you know, do I want to do
Host:business with this company? And so it's really, I think, the
Host:combination of the two that makes a very powerful sales
Host:presentation.
Host:I'd love to hear like an example of some companies where
Host:you go here is somebody who had a very weak brand, and it was
Host:not going well, and then they did this and this and this and
Host:this, and it changed.
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Well, I'll talk about one of the my clients that
Host:I worked with a while ago, and so I think I can speak fairly
Host:freely about them. And they're a public company. It's a fast food
Host:chain called Jack in the Box, and I would say that when we
Host:started working with them, they had the image that they had
Host:created from their television commercials. So Jack in the Box
Host:has this CEO character, Jack, who's kind of like a kick butt,
Host:you know, fun, funny, bold, convention breaking, kind of
Host:CEO. And these advertisements, I think, really created this
Host:personality that people liked, but there was a very big
Host:disconnect between that image and what you would actually
Host:experience in the store. You know, in fact, I think the
Host:executives would agree when we started working with them, the
Host:other stores were somewhat dirty, somewhat slow. Service
Host:was inconsistent. You know, probably inconsistency was
Host:probably their biggest problem, and they had definitely had
Host:bright spots, but they also had a lot of problems. And so the
Host:work that we did, you know, we certainly helped them refine
Host:their position and really kind of focus more on their
Host:positioning. But more importantly, what we did was
Host:worked with every person who worked on that brand, from you
Host:know, the executive team to the corporate departments to the
Host:franchisees. You know, both the master franchisees that own
Host:hundreds of units, as well as the smaller franchises, and then
Host:the restaurant employees all to understand what is their role in
Host:interpreting and reinforcing the Jack in the Box brand. And you
Host:know, there was certain there was a certain positioning, a
Host:certain personality, values and attributes that that they wanted
Host:their brand to be known for. And through that work, I think that
Host:the stores, the store experience, has become much more
Host:in line with what this image was. Now they still have a long
Host:way to go, and I'm sure that, you know, you would you, if you
Host:went into Jack in the Box, maybe nine out of 10 times, or maybe
Host:eight out of 10 times, you'd get this great experience that that
Host:reflects their brand, but you would still have some
Host:inconsistency. But I think the most important thing was that
Host:that, you know, they brought in a lot more personality into what
Host:they were doing in the stores. A lot of their stores decided to
Host:stay open 24 hours, and they built a whole late night program
Host:and a special menu and kind of special promotions to promote
Host:this kind of late night time, which really appealed to their
Host:millennial target customers, and kind of would be the kind of
Host:thing that this jack character from the advertiser would
Host:actually do in the store, and so I think, and now, if you look at
Host:their stock price, as if that's any indication of the success of
Host:this change that they've made, I don't want to misquote, but I
Host:want to say that their stock is on fire, and I don't want to
Host:take credit for that completely, but I think that's part what our
Host:work was, in part what has been contributing to their success.
Host:Now you use the phrase integrated approach. What does
Host:that mean to have an integrated approach?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Oh, well, at the most fundamental level, I
Host:think it means that you do what you say that you are doing, you
Host:know? So I always say that a brand can't just be a promise.
Host:It needs to be a promise delivered so you're integrating
Host:your promise with your actual execution. But I think
Host:integration is also about every aspect of what you're doing,
Host:every aspect of the customer experience, needs to be
Host:integrated so that it creates this branded experience, this
Host:really compelling, different. COVID experience for the
Host:customer. And so it's you know, about making sure that your
Host:products are the types of products that you have are, you
Host:know, expressing the value that you want to be known for. The
Host:types of services you offer are integrated with those products.
Host:The pricing that you use reflects the value that you want
Host:to be known for. You know, the promotions and the marketing you
Host:do build up an expectation that then is delivered from those
Host:products and services. So it's all part of a cohesive whole.
Host:Let's say somebody that's out there listening and their
Host:small business owner, what's the first thing they should do?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: It's probably safe to say that in most every
Host:area, every sector, every industry, the competition is has
Host:already increased or is increasing, and your need to
Host:stand out and be known is becoming, you know, even more
Host:critically important, and you can't just expect your customers
Host:to figure that out. You know, if we just run a good business,
Host:people will, you know, will come to us. I mean, that's not the
Host:way that it works today. You need to stand out and give
Host:customers a reason to choose you. So that's why it's
Host:important. And then I would say, you know, part of the reason why
Host:you might have all these different, you know, logos or
Host:expressions, or, you know, different brochures, or, you
Host:know, whatever, maybe because you yourself as as a business
Host:owner or partner team, are not focused and clear yourself on,
Host:what does your brand stand for? You know, what is that core
Host:essence or core purpose or core mission that really holds
Host:everything together? And so you, I think you need to spend some
Host:time, and it's not something that is, you know, takes a long
Host:process, and it's not something that you even really need to
Host:spend any money on, but you need to do some very, you know,
Host:serious like introspection and strategic planning on what is it
Host:that we want our brand to known, be known for, and very clearly
Host:articulate that don't assume that people just get it or
Host:people know it, but, you know, write it down and make sure that
Host:it's clear on what you stand for and how you're different and
Host:better from your competition. And then from there, I think, is
Host:a matter of then ensuring that everyone who works on your brand
Host:shares that understanding and then brings that to life in
Host:their area of responsibility. And if you don't create a
Host:reputation for yourself, one will be created, right?
Host:Where do you want people to go, Denise, to connect with
Host:you?
Host:Denise Lee Yohn: Yeah, so, um, definitely you go to my website,
Host:DeniseLeeYohn.com, and that's d, e, n, i, s, E, L, E, E, y, O, H
Host:n.com, and from there, you can actually access all the
Host:information about my book. There are materials for my book that
Host:you can download, links to where you can purchase it, and then
Host:that also clicks or links you to my blog and newsletter.
Host:Absolutely. Thank you for sharing this with us. Denise Lee
Host:Yohn.