Artwork for podcast The Will Spencer Podcast
JAY STANG | The Courage to Hurt Feelings: Time-Honored Values and the Future of Conservatism
Episode 188 • 19th July 2024 • The Will Spencer Podcast • Will Spencer
00:00:00 02:45:22

Share Episode

Shownotes

Jay Stang, a former U.S. Marine, entrepreneur, and son of political commentator Alan Stang, joins Will Spencer to discuss the decay of conservatism and the broader implications of cultural shifts in America.

The conversation delves into the failures of modern conservatism to conserve essential values, questioning what has been lost in the current societal landscape. They explore how feminism and collectivist ideologies have infiltrated traditional values, impacting family structures and the roles of men and women in society.

Stang emphasizes the necessity of personal responsibility and the importance of recognizing and resisting the emotional manipulation prevalent in today's culture. This dialogue serves as a call to action for men to reclaim their roles and responsibilities in a world increasingly defined by confusion and chaos.

Takeaways:

  • This podcast episode features Jay Stang, a US Marine and keen observer of conservative decay.
  • Will and Jay discuss the historical roots and evolution of American conservatism.
  • The conversation dives into the failures of modern conservatism to uphold traditional values.
  • Jay argues that feminism has significantly contributed to the degradation of societal structures.
  • Listeners are encouraged to take personal responsibility for their beliefs and actions.
  • The episode highlights the importance of understanding the influence of media and narratives on societal views.

CONNECT WITH JAY

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

🌟 The Will Spencer Podcast was formerly known as "The Renaissance of Men."

FOLLOW US FOR MORE

Buy Me a Coffee

FREE Men's Chastity Guide

Communications Powered by PaxMail

The Will Spencer Podcast is a weekly interview show featuring extended discussions with authors, leaders, and influencers who can help us make sense of our changing world today. I release new episodes every week on Friday.

ADVERTISERS

Mentioned in this episode:

Sean O'Brien Training

Sean O'Brien, an NASM-certified trainer and Kingdom builder, helps men and women worldwide reach their fitness goals. Mention my name for an exclusive 15% OFF any training package.

https://obrienfitnesslifestyle.com

Transcripts

Will Spencer:

My name is Will Spencer and you're listening to the renaissance of Men podcast.

Will Spencer:

Please welcome this week's guest on the podcast, a husband, father, us marine, future billionaire and sharp observer of the decay of conservatism.

Will Spencer:

Jay Stang, you are the renaissance.

Will Spencer:

What has conservatism conserved?

Will Spencer:

No really, as you look around to the decay of modern american society, abortions, trans kids, pride parades, inflation woke media, crumbling infrastructure, porous borders, impending foreign wars and more, I think its a fair question.

Will Spencer:

Oh sure, we have 4 July, apple pie and baseball.

Will Spencer:

Yay I guess.

Will Spencer:

But the virtues that made America a dominant global superpower, if only for a moment, appear to have been sold down the river.

Will Spencer:

And last I checked it was the conservative partys job to protect against things like that.

Will Spencer:

So again I ask, what has conservatism conserved?

Will Spencer:

But truthfully, I know the answer.

Will Spencer:

Nothing.

Will Spencer:

The big question then is why?

Will Spencer:

And perhaps to answer that question it helps to start with when.

Will Spencer:

But asking when is a tricky thing because few of us asking now were actually there.

Will Spencer:

I wasnt in the halls of Congress, the Oval Office, the smoke filled backrooms, the penthouses, or the private islands or estates where these sorts of decisions are made.

Will Spencer:

I probably wasn't even born yet when conservatism decided that it wouldn't really conserve anything of value.

Will Spencer:

So if I can't get back to the when, I can't find out the why.

Will Spencer:

Unless I had a time machine.

Will Spencer:

Hold on a second.

Will Spencer:

Hear me out.

Will Spencer:

Now, I wouldn't get in this time machine.

Will Spencer:

I've seen enough movies to know that it would create all kinds of space time distortions, and that would be bad.

Will Spencer:

Instead, I would send the time machine back in time for someone else to get into it and come forward in time to today.

Will Spencer:

That man of his era could talk about the shifts of conservatism that he was witnessing and provide valuable firsthand information that none of us could find on our own.

Will Spencer:

Then we would know not only the when, but the why.

Will Spencer:

And everyone wins.

Will Spencer:

Sound good?

Will Spencer:

There's just one problem.

Will Spencer:

My time machine is broken.

Will Spencer:

Can I borrow yours?

Will Spencer:

No.

Will Spencer:

Well then we have a problem.

Will Spencer:

Oh wait, I have another idea.

Will Spencer:

The next best thing.

Will Spencer:

Rather than sending a time machine back to get that man, what if we sent something from that man forward in time?

Will Spencer:

Perhaps his progeny.

Will Spencer:

Could a man of his time raise a son who would grow up out of time?

Will Spencer:

You're about to find out.

Will Spencer:

Which brings me to my guest this week.

Will Spencer:

His name is Jay Stang and he's a husband, father, us Marine, future billionaire and good friend.

Will Spencer:

chats when the world ended in:

Will Spencer:

And after getting to know him over dinner, barbecue, and in DM's, I discovered that his personal life history matches a lot of the scenario that I just described because his father was the political commentator Alan Stang.

Will Spencer:

Now, I doubt I have many listeners who are old enough to remember that name, but as you're about to hear, Mister Stang was part of the John Birch society.

Will Spencer:

And if you don't know what that is, here's how Wikipedia describes it.

Will Spencer:

cal advocacy group founded in:

Will Spencer:

It is anti communist, supports social conservatism, is associated with ultra conservative, radical right, far right, right wing populist, and right wing libertarian ideas.

Will Spencer:

Now, if you're anything like me, that sounds like your kind of party.

Will Spencer:

Alan Stang was an influential and outspoken part of the John Birch Society.

Will Spencer:

And my guest this week, Jay, is his son.

Will Spencer:

So while we can't send a time machine back to pick up Mister Alan Stang himself, we get the next best thing.

Will Spencer:

His progeny, who was raised to follow in his footsteps, to embody his values, and to live a life based in an era where conservatism hadn't yet failed to conserve anything.

Will Spencer:

But this isn't to say that Jay stands in his father's shadow, far from it.

Will Spencer:

It's to point out that in some ways, Jay's values are an anachronistic gift from his father, helping him and us to navigate a straight and true line in a world gone mad because most of us have had to unlearn a lifetime of bad values.

Will Spencer:

But perhaps with Jay's insight, we can begin to learn lessons from him, his father, and his family values.

Will Spencer:

Then maybe we can begin building upon them to rightly instruct our sons, just as Alan Stang did and as Jay is doing today.

Will Spencer:

In our conversation, Jay and I discussed his background and his father's legacy.

Will Spencer:

Thomas Jefferson's british brothers, the most powerful male instinct, feminism versus family formation, the communization of american men, why libertarianism is communism, and finally, space dinosaurs on the gas giant planets.

Will Spencer:

If you enjoy the renaissance of men podcast, thank you.

Will Spencer:

Please leave us a five star rating on Spotify and a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

Will Spencer:

If this is your first time here, welcome.

Will Spencer:

I release new episodes about the christian counterculture, masculine virtue, and the family every week.

Will Spencer:

Just a reminder that many things about this podcast will be changing very soon.

Will Spencer:

This podcast will soon become the Will Spencer podcast.

Will Spencer:

New brand new topics, new guests, same format you love.

Will Spencer:

This has been a long time coming and I'm excited.

Will Spencer:

I hope you are too.

Will Spencer:

And I hope you won't mind these regular reminders to make sure we all come along together.

Will Spencer:

Also, just a quick moment to remind you of the new Will Spencer podcast Substack.

Will Spencer:

There are many perks available to paid subscribers, including early access to ad, free audio and video interviews, previews of my new book and the new brand of the podcast, and finally, lifetime access to my christian men's Discord server.

Will Spencer:

The new substack is available to subscribers for as low as $10 per month.

Will Spencer:

Visit willspence.com and be a part of it now.

Will Spencer:

And please welcome this week's guest on the podcast, the US Marine and future billionaire, providing his razor sharp insight on our current national predicament.

Will Spencer:

Jay Stang.

Will Spencer:

Hey Jay, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Jay Stang:

My pleasure, Will.

Jay Stang:

How are you today?

Will Spencer:

I'm doing well, sir.

Will Spencer:

How are you?

Jay Stang:

Excellent.

Jay Stang:

On the road, seeing customers, getting business done, bringing home the bacon.

Will Spencer:

Excellent.

Will Spencer:

I think all the bros in Chatastan will be happy and excited to see us and hear us chatting.

Jay Stang:

I think so, yeah.

Will Spencer:

Shout out to all the guys.

Will Spencer:

Well, so you and I known each other for a couple, three years now.

Will Spencer:

Met in some of the same circles.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, I met Sean O'Brien in, I think he inner circle and places like that in Chattisan.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

So been blessed to get the.

Will Spencer:

For the chance to get to know you and your family and spend some time together.

Will Spencer:

So I've been looking forward to this.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, same here.

Jay Stang:

It's good to get the message out in the right format, have good conversations, and it's easy to hide behind a Twitter or an X handle.

Jay Stang:

And you can only communicate so much via the 280 text limit or whatever it is.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

Now it's like ten times that, I think, if you're a paid, verified member.

Will Spencer:

But still, it's not the same as the opportunity to actually talk to somebody.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

You know, face to face, more or less.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Body, all of that.

Jay Stang:

Super important to getting your point across.

Will Spencer:

Absolutely.

Will Spencer:

Well, and getting to know and getting to know, like, who a man is, because there's the way that we can express.

Will Spencer:

So I'll use myself as an example.

Will Spencer:

I express myself in a particular way on social media, and I've learned how to express myself concisely and how to phrase things in a way that, like, impact.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Do you feel it?

Will Spencer:

And I will often meet people and they'll say things like, you're much nicer in person than I expected, because they're used to me communicating in a certain way, maybe with a form of Persona on social media that's only a part of who I am, not all of who I am.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

It's also hard to make sure that you communicate things like sarcasm.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

I've had people say, that's crazy.

Jay Stang:

How could you say that?

Jay Stang:

How could you think that?

Jay Stang:

Guys, I'm joking.

Jay Stang:

It's a joke.

Jay Stang:

We're all joking.

Jay Stang:

We're all laughing.

Jay Stang:

We're all laughing.

Will Spencer:

We're all laughing.

Will Spencer:

It's a good time.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

It's hard to communicate that sometimes on Twitter because you assume people know who you are in your background and you forget that not everybody knows who you are where you come from, so they lose track of that element of communication.

Will Spencer:

Well, I'm glad you brought that up because you actually.

Will Spencer:

You have a background that I'm curious about.

Will Spencer:

Your father was.

Will Spencer:

I don't know quite how to frame what he did.

Will Spencer:

Maybe like a columnist or a politician or something like that.

Will Spencer:

He had a pretty high profile in a certain genre of conservatism, a certain erade.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

If you look at his taglines, he came up with investigative reporter, journalist, lecturer, author, writer, so on and so forth, and accomplished a lot of what he did.

Jay Stang:

He started out as, I think, either a conservative or orthodox jew in New York City.

Jay Stang:

Oh, really?

Jay Stang:

In the Bronx?

Jay Stang:

What a surprise.

Jay Stang:

ents came from Austria in the:

Jay Stang:

Doesn't get any more jewish than that.

Will Spencer:

It literally does.

Jay Stang:

Not literally.

Jay Stang:

So then they moved to New York City, and there's a big family, but no one remembered to have kids.

Jay Stang:

So giant family then just imploded upon itself.

Jay Stang:

My only living relative from my father's side of the family is the CEO of delic, the only publicly traded psychedelics and whatever drug marketplace or incubator there is on the planet.

Will Spencer:

So they're.

Will Spencer:

So they're testing psychedelic drugs for public consumption or.

Jay Stang:

I think they're more of a business incubator for businesses in that industry.

Will Spencer:

Oh, my goodness.

Jay Stang:

So if you look at the contrast between my.

Jay Stang:

I think he's my third cousin.

Jay Stang:

Never met him in person.

Jay Stang:

My third cousin, who runs this company, and I, who run an oil and.

Will Spencer:

Gas company in Texas, I don't know, but they get further apart on the entrepreneurial spectrum than that.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But it's a common thread.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

He and I both started companies and are presidents of our respective companies.

Jay Stang:

So he grew up.

Jay Stang:

He had his bar mitzvah in:

Jay Stang:

r, my grandfather was born in:

Jay Stang:

My dad turned 13 and my great grandfather Nathan scheduled the bar mitzvah, took care of that.

Jay Stang:

And then when my grandfather came home, I think that's where the convergence happened or the diversion, because being in the third army for five years with a bunch of gentiles, he was exposed to a lot of the outside world that he wouldn't have been otherwise.

Jay Stang:

So when he came home, he had a much broader outlook on life and took my father to chinese food places, which I'm told back then were not very popular.

Jay Stang:

No self respecting jew from New York City would be caught in a chinese food place at that time.

Jay Stang:

So he got a perspective on the world that he didn't have.

Jay Stang:

And then in the fifties, my dad worked in CB's, worked at CB's for Mike Wallace and got more of an exposure there.

Jay Stang:

But then along the way I think he some flavor of agnostic or atheist.

Jay Stang:

But then he became an objection objectivist.

Will Spencer:

And he was with Ayn Rand.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, he's with Ayn Rand and Alan Greenspan and running with that crew in the fifties and then moved on from that.

Jay Stang:

And then after that point for the next 25, 30 years was with the John Birch Society.

Jay Stang:

arents met at a youth camp in:

Will Spencer:

So for those who don't know what the John Birch society is, sort of unpack that for people.

Jay Stang:

It is, it depends on who you ask, right?

Jay Stang:

It's radioactive.

Jay Stang:

One of the original anti communist political activist groups in the country still around, obviously, and the supply of communists has not decreased, unfortunately.

Jay Stang:

So it was founded by Robert Welch to fight communism literally in the United States and around the world.

Jay Stang:

And that either their approach or what they were saying was very unpopular in some circles of conservativism.

Jay Stang:

And so their original mortal enemy was William F.

Jay Stang:

Buckley.

Jay Stang:

And so the expression used was he read the Birch Society out of the conservative movement.

Jay Stang:

Of course, Buckley ran National Review and it was rumored to be a flaming homosexual.

Will Spencer:

Oh, wow.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, this is getting into like ancient, like the sort of conservative politics that have kind of defined how we got here today.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

It's ancient, but it's still relevant because if you look at the typical list of, you know, fake people or people running psy ops on you, like the typical, the latest e girl.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

It's kind of the same vein where they're leading you down a garden path.

Jay Stang:

And if they're the ones that are shaping the message, then they can shape the message or the policies of the politics to whatever they want it to be.

Will Spencer:

So do you think, I mean, so William F.

Will Spencer:

Buckley was probably before most of the listener's time.

Will Spencer:

I know the name and I can place the face.

Will Spencer:

I wasn't familiar with his politics.

Will Spencer:

But we can look at conservatives today and we can see that conservatism has basically lost its spine and its identity for the most part.

Will Spencer:

Do you think it probably began back then with a hesitation to persecute communism?

Jay Stang:

Yeah, very much so.

Jay Stang:

Because the two camps were the America first crowd Charles Lindbergh, Senator Robert Taft, the Bird Society and then the other half was the National Review.

Jay Stang:

And then the part that would be the GOP establishment, the neoconservatives that would be the other side of the right wing or the movement.

Jay Stang:

But the word conservative itself, I think is absolutely meaningless because to conserve as a verb, we're conserving something.

Jay Stang:

There's no inherent statement of value or what those values are or Christianity or anything in the word conservative because it's all contextual.

Jay Stang:

When Cortes showed up, Montezuma was conserving the traditional values of the Aztecs, which included human sacrifice.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

So it's a completely empty word if you think about what does the word even mean?

Jay Stang:

And so you have this empty pot, Buckley and the rest.

Jay Stang:

And then the neoconservatives who came afterwards can pour anything they want to in the pot.

Jay Stang:

And now you're conservative.

Jay Stang:

Great.

Jay Stang:

Conserve this that you would normally never agree with.

Jay Stang:

But that's a conservative value.

Jay Stang:

These are now it's conservative value because we have told you it is.

Jay Stang:

And so if you look at the sliding scale or the slippery slope as it has sped up over the decades you can see that what we're conserving now would have been Satan worship in the fifties and so on and so forth.

Will Spencer:

It's Satan worship today too.

Jay Stang:

I don't call myself a conservative at all because it's a completely vapidae ideology.

Jay Stang:

It's completely empty because the word has no inherent meaning.

Jay Stang:

You're conserving something.

Jay Stang:

I'm conserving oxygen.

Jay Stang:

I'm conserving money.

Jay Stang:

I'm conserving someone else's values that might not be my own.

Jay Stang:

So for that, the word conservative has a meaning or a baggage of some sort, but it changes over time.

Jay Stang:

And if you call yourself conservative, you're long for the ride, whatever the current meaning of the word is in current year.

Will Spencer:

So what do you call yourself?

Will Spencer:

Because I have the same question for myself.

Will Spencer:

Like people ask me, I'm a registered independent because I don't find either.

Will Spencer:

I don't find the conservative party is radical enough for me.

Jay Stang:

Some people have called me a patriarchal fascist.

Will Spencer:

We'll go with it.

Jay Stang:

You can't think without labeling things.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, but it's difficult to put a label on.

Jay Stang:

If I were to classify myself.

Jay Stang:

All I can say is the memes must flow and leave it at that.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I don't think we have a good barometer for what is to the political right of what's called mainstream conservatism, because that territory has been labeled and named by the left as radicalism, fascism, extremism, et cetera.

Will Spencer:

It's like.

Will Spencer:

And that even infects people who would be on the political right with enmity of people who are to their right.

Will Spencer:

And that's of course, a whole big discussion that's going on.

Will Spencer:

Like, no enemies on the right, no enemies to the right.

Will Spencer:

All the enemies are to the left.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

What's conservative these days, Lady Maga?

Jay Stang:

This trans, this tranny, that's conservative.

Jay Stang:

Then it only works if you have no short term memory.

Jay Stang:

If you have no short term memory or long term memory, you can't look at this current context and say, wait, wait, wait.

Jay Stang:

ime from where we were in the:

Jay Stang:

People say, oh, Christianity is weak.

Jay Stang:

Well, in:

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Slippery slope that affects everything.

Jay Stang:

And so what is accepted and normal nowadays?

Jay Stang:

100 years ago or 50 years ago, it would have been a completely different scenario.

Will Spencer:

Yes, because they actually had a set of values and principles that they were conserving something, traditions that they considered were worth fighting for versus what it sounds like conservatism became, which is just the left but slower, I think, is the joke.

Will Spencer:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And the left is defining it because the left supplies the language and you use the language the left supplies for you to define yourself.

Jay Stang:

You allow the left to define and frame you, and then they're setting the frame and you're dancing to their tune.

Jay Stang:

It's the language, insanely important.

Jay Stang:

Pro life, pro choice, anti abortion, anti death.

Jay Stang:

Those are easy examples because you can see how those flip back and forth depending on the language you use.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about that.

Will Spencer:

That's one of the reasons that I enjoy using Twitter, is because when I get into discussions or arguments with people, understanding the way that they're trying to frame the discussion and not allowing them to set the frame with.

Will Spencer:

With terms like pro life is a great example and even that's been corrupted.

Will Spencer:

But you have to think through the language that you're being fed.

Will Spencer:

Because by conceding the point on the terms being used essentially is to concede the argument.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, you're allowing them to frame or define the language being used.

Jay Stang:

And if you can't think something, then you can't say it.

Jay Stang:

If there's no term for whatever you're talking about, then it doesn't exist effectively.

Jay Stang:

that was part of Big Brother:

Jay Stang:

If you didn't know the word for something, you couldn't even entertain the concept.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

And it's also, it's a double trap as well, because if there isn't a word for the concept and you try and create a word for the concept, you have to do double work.

Will Spencer:

It's not like you make up a word to describe something unless you're really skilled at it.

Will Spencer:

And some people are.

Will Spencer:

They're skilled at coming up with a term that just creates, crystallizes in people's mind, and then it becomes a weapon in the dialogue.

Will Spencer:

But without that, it can be very difficult.

Jay Stang:

It can.

Jay Stang:

If you think of the guy who invented and pushed into the social consciousness the words cuck or cuckservative.

Jay Stang:

Gamma male.

Jay Stang:

Male.

Jay Stang:

He's not allowed on any social media platforms.

Jay Stang:

He's even more radioactive than Nick Fuentes is, which is an accomplishment.

Jay Stang:

Who's that?

Will Spencer:

Hartiste?

Jay Stang:

No, no, it's Vox day.

Will Spencer:

Oh, wow.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So he was the one that came up with a lot of these terms that people use and they don't know the origin of it.

Jay Stang:

He's extraordinarily good at doing that.

Jay Stang:

And he's helped shape the conversation dramatically by the words and the terms he's.

Jay Stang:

And the ideas that he has injected, whether he's credited for it or not.

Jay Stang:

So I'll credit it for him.

Jay Stang:

Now, he's very effective at doing that.

Jay Stang:

And people don't know where the terms come from.

Jay Stang:

They're using, but they're there regardless.

Jay Stang:

So it's very difficult to do, and very few people can do it consistently and come up with that many bangers, so to speak.

Jay Stang:

But easy.

Will Spencer:

You're the first person on the podcast to ever mention Vox Day, which I appreciate because I remember I was listening to him.

Will Spencer:

It would have been back in:

Will Spencer:

I was listening to him quite extensively.

Will Spencer:

And his book SJW is always lie, that being.

Will Spencer:

But that was not, that was far from the first thing that he's done and then the whole Jordan Peterson going in.

Will Spencer:

So Vox day was absolutely not a fan of Jordan Peterson.

Will Spencer:

I think Jordan nittucks.

Will Spencer:

Exactly.

Will Spencer:

He wrote a book and then Jordan Peterson went into the hospital.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And Owen Benjamin and Vox Day were kind of celebrating that.

Will Spencer:

And then I think they had some sort of falling out.

Will Spencer:

Owen Benjamin and Vox day.

Will Spencer:

And Owen Benjamin has returned.

Will Spencer:

And so now he's on Twitter.

Will Spencer:

And I haven't tracked Vox day.

Will Spencer:

I guess.

Will Spencer:

I guess he's still writing.

Will Spencer:

Is he still doing anything?

Jay Stang:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Stang:

He's got a couple blogs.

Jay Stang:

He writes a substack and then I think boxday.net comma.

Jay Stang:

But he's not allowed on social media because really these days what he says is very offensive.

Jay Stang:

But what really infuriates people is what he says.

Jay Stang:

And that's what really makes conservatives mad.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

If you heard the term magic dirt, that's another one of the things he's come up with, right?

Jay Stang:

The Judeo christian idea, the melting pot, all of these shibboleths or common sayings or whatever spells whatever you want to call them that have unwittingly shaped people's thinkings, saying, oh, America has a Judeo christian foundation.

Jay Stang:

Well, you can do something as simple as a Google ngram and see when that word was being used.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Does that word go back at the beginning?

Jay Stang:

No.

Jay Stang:

Does the nation of immigrants go back?

Jay Stang:

No.

Jay Stang:

Into the sixties, we were a nation of pioneers and colonists and explorers, but that founding idea has been replaced by the nation of immigrants, the melting pot.

Jay Stang:

Same thing.

Jay Stang:

And that goes back to another.

Jay Stang:

One of the things that make people really, really mad is when he discounts the 0th amendment or the, the Emma Lazarus poem at the feet of the statue of liberty.

Will Spencer:

Oh, wow.

Jay Stang:

Those revisionist founding myths that shape everything you see and think about America as being a proposition.

Jay Stang:

Nation or civic nationalism.

Jay Stang:

Another one of his terms he came up with where if you read the Declaration of independence, Jefferson refers to our british brethren.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

So the Americans and the British were brothers.

Jay Stang:

Well, what are the British?

Jay Stang:

Especially in the 18th century, they were white british Christians.

Will Spencer:

Oh yeah, right.

Jay Stang:

So if they're brothers and Thomas Jefferson of all people is saying our british brethren, then we know what America really is.

Jay Stang:

It's not an idea or it's not a piece of land.

Jay Stang:

It's a people or the n word.

Jay Stang:

The other one, a nation, which comes from the latin word natio, which means to be born.

Jay Stang:

So it's really offensive to say that America is an actual people because that necessarily excludes a lot of people, and they get their feelings heard about it, and they get on Twitter just as american is, but it's not true because if America is a nation, it means it's a specific people.

Jay Stang:

And then you go straight to the nazi allegations because, like, oh, blood and soil, you're nazi, right?

Jay Stang:

But if you poison the debate like that, you can't ever get to the truth of, of anything about where you are, where you came from, who you are.

Jay Stang:

And if you don't know who you are, where you came from, then you can be destroyed very easily.

Will Spencer:

I remember that you posted something on Twitter where you said there was a survey that showed the attitudes towards, I think it was safety of different ethnicities.

Will Spencer:

And then it showed, like, white men had a very different approach to many social and political issues.

Will Spencer:

And I remember what you said about that.

Will Spencer:

They just proved heritage Americans.

Will Spencer:

I'm not sure.

Will Spencer:

I think that's the term you use.

Jay Stang:

Jared McCauffman Post.

Jay Stang:

Okay, where he, I was commenting on his post where he said, look, this one 6th of the country is white males, and they have a higher disagreeability rate.

Jay Stang:

And how does that lead to a cohesive society?

Jay Stang:

It's what they're disagreeable to.

Jay Stang:

Safety is one of those.

Jay Stang:

Now, men love risk.

Jay Stang:

We love riding motorcycles and shooting guns and jumping out of airplanes and getting in bar fights in Tijuana with your buddies and then running from the mexican police.

Jay Stang:

Random example.

Jay Stang:

You know, I would never be like that when I was 19 years old.

Will Spencer:

Definitely not terrible.

Jay Stang:

I don't know who do it, but, you know, men engage in those activities like jumping off of roofs into your pool, stuff that makes your mom, you know, faint out of fear or shock.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

But we do that stuff.

Jay Stang:

And that goes, and another thing, back to the 19th amendment, and that's, I want to make this about Fox day, but people get really mad when he says women shouldn't vote.

Jay Stang:

But that idea has come back into more or less the mainstream, that there is a competing view of suffrage, that it was a huge mistake and that women should not be voting because women want to be provided for.

Jay Stang:

They want to be safe.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

They want to be comfortable in their houses.

Jay Stang:

And those are natural instincts.

Jay Stang:

And it's not wrong for women to have those.

Jay Stang:

That's good.

Jay Stang:

Otherwise they'd be, you know, weird looking men.

Jay Stang:

But you can't run a society off of a very safety oriented, risk averse culture.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

There's risk in everything in life.

Jay Stang:

If you're a businessman, risk is a constant companion.

Jay Stang:

And so you can't have a, a concept or a mindset.

Jay Stang:

You're going to eliminate risk because it's impossible.

Jay Stang:

There is a level of inherent risk present in everything you do.

Jay Stang:

And so life is dangerous.

Jay Stang:

Life is rough.

Jay Stang:

Life's a contact sport.

Jay Stang:

And so that's why men have to run everything, because we are much more suited to assessing, gauging, and engaging with risk than women are.

Jay Stang:

And women, that's not their job.

Jay Stang:

Their job is to raise children and to keep the home.

Jay Stang:

And we're pushing them out in the world to try to assume risk.

Jay Stang:

Then that's when you get, they're walking drunk down the street on a Friday night in heels and miniskirt.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So it's, you know, women are not men, we're not women.

Jay Stang:

And when you try to mash them into the square peg in the round hole, it always has bad results.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I mean, what's so funny about this, about the 19th Amendment and women's perception of risk is that they perceive risk more in terms of people's feelings than they do in terms of societal risk.

Will Spencer:

Like, look at San Francisco, for example.

Will Spencer:

We see videos coming up basically every week of what's happening in major american cities.

Will Spencer:

And there was one from San Francisco, I think it was last week.

Will Spencer:

They had drag racers in front of the embarcadero.

Will Spencer:

Like, the embarcadero is one of the nicest areas of San Francisco.

Jay Stang:

There's a big iconic area.

Jay Stang:

It's in a million movies and postcards and everything.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And so now you have huge crowds of, I mean, there were thousands of people and drag racers, and you can hear the tires going.

Will Spencer:

And there was nothing, there was nothing done to stop them.

Will Spencer:

And the reason why that's even possible is because the risk assessment was like, well, we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by telling them no or by arresting people or by enforcing social order.

Will Spencer:

So we're going to talk.

Will Spencer:

So that risk is greater than, than the risk of public safety, which I've been to more than 30 countries.

Will Spencer:

San Francisco is the most dangerous city in the world that is in an active war zone.

Jay Stang:

San Francisco specifically.

Jay Stang:

You can see the seeds of that mindset if you watch the first and second dirty area movies.

Will Spencer:

Oh, wow.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

It was set in San Francisco in the late sixties, early seventies, and the public safety or the police commissioned people that Harry Callahan was always getting into trouble with.

Jay Stang:

And it's having friction with.

Jay Stang:

Were these people just 50 years ago.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Jay Stang:

They were the proto versions of these people at San Francisco that are letting the city fall apart.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Where Callahan was the law and order person, right?

Jay Stang:

The representative of the concept of law and order.

Jay Stang:

And all these people are, oh, let's take it easy on the criminals, you know, it's not their fault, really, blah, blah, blah.

Jay Stang:

And Harry Callahan grits his teeth and says, you guys are legends in your own mind.

Jay Stang:

So you can see that with the case of San Francisco specifically, even in movies that were being made in the sixties and seventies.

Jay Stang:

Plus it's dirty, hairy, so pretty awesome.

Jay Stang:

But yeah, you can see that.

Jay Stang:

But it's a logical train of that risk, that aversion to it, that underpins so many of the signs of decay that we're seeing is we have to be sensitive to people's feelings.

Jay Stang:

And that's where you get the HR problems and the DEI problems, the cancel culture and everything is because they don't have the courage to confront hurt feelings, right?

Jay Stang:

Someone on Twitter said, laid it out very cleanly.

Jay Stang:

It's physical strength is the basis of it all.

Jay Stang:

Because if you have sufficient physical strength, you don't need to seek consensus.

Jay Stang:

You have enough strength physically to be able to stand on your own and take a contrary viewpoint to everybody else.

Jay Stang:

And you don't have to, you know, you don't have to have safety in numbers because you've got more than enough strength by yourself.

Jay Stang:

But when you are low t, right, the soy boys, the new male grimaces.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

I can't even, I can't even try to replicate the new male grimace here.

Jay Stang:

I'm not going to.

Will Spencer:

No, don't.

Jay Stang:

But when you have a low t man or a woman, they instinctively seek consensus where they don't question if it's right or not, they question if it's popular or not because they don't have the physical strength to stand on their own.

Jay Stang:

And physical strength leads to mental strength because to build physical strength, you have to have mental strength.

Jay Stang:

So it's a feedback loop where if you're not strong enough, you cannot risk taking unpopular opinion because you don't have the strength to exist independently.

Jay Stang:

You have to exist within the herd or within the hive mind.

Jay Stang:

And so if you are low t or FEmale, then you automatically seek consensus as a safety measure, again, avoiding risk.

Jay Stang:

But if you are a high t, male or individual, you can see me do this on Twitter all the time, taking a position on somebody else's post that's absolutely contrary to what they're saying.

Jay Stang:

There are two sexes.

Jay Stang:

No, you're wrong.

Jay Stang:

You have to go back all this stuff and it's because I've been lifting weights for a while, and so I'm not worried about what someone's going to say.

Jay Stang:

I also can't be fired.

Will Spencer:

Right?

Jay Stang:

That's a big thing there is, where people will either curtail or they'll go along with it because they can't afford to be fired.

Jay Stang:

They've got chains on, golden handcuffs where they make good money, but if they jump out, contrary to the crowd, they could be fired.

Will Spencer:

Well, let's talk a little bit about that, because the notion of not being able to be fired and the notion of having physical strength and being able to stand on your own and defend yourself credibly, maybe you can't do it against 20 guys, but at least you'll put up a good fight.

Will Spencer:

These two notions of independence and physical strength are what's been kind of cultivated and bred out of men.

Will Spencer:

You have to be consensus oriented to work within an information economy kind of world, right?

Will Spencer:

And then you don't want to be too outspoken inside the corporate world, and that's why you have all the business speak, circle back, touch base.

Will Spencer:

It's just all passive aggressive language warfare.

Will Spencer:

And so you denature men to the point where they can't actually stand up and they end up being led by women.

Will Spencer:

And the notion of getting to a place like you're talking about, like, no, be physically strong, be able to lift a heavy thing off the, off the ground and start your own business so you can't be fired.

Will Spencer:

It's like, it's a bridge too far for some men imaginatively.

Jay Stang:

But look at the past of, when they look at average testosterone levels of american men at the time where independence and filial strength were standards for american men in the past.

Jay Stang:

But that also makes them very hard to control and to get them to go along with something that's against their interests and against their family's interests.

Jay Stang:

If you have these very disagreeable, very strong, very obstinate men who will tell you nuts or kiss my ass or whatever famous american sayings have been said in the past, you can't have the bugman economy with a country full of Clint Eastwoods.

Jay Stang:

It's not going to work.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

It makes me think back.

Will Spencer:

Go ahead.

Will Spencer:

Sorry.

Jay Stang:

Those qualities had to be bred out of enough men to make all of this happen.

Will Spencer:

I think that they were both bred out over multiple generations, but I think they were.

Will Spencer:

The more that I think about it, I look at the boomer generation of men who capitulated on many of the values and I think that they were bribed out of it.

Will Spencer:

I think they were bribed out of it with free and easy sex, and they compromised themselves morally, and it was easier to just have a bunch of fun.

Will Spencer:

And the men who didn't go over to Vietnam and get destroyed either physically or mentally, stayed here and partied, went to woodstock and wasted, essentially, many years of their lives and always wanted to get back to that.

Will Spencer:

Like, I just want to get back to my party days at Woodstock.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

And you could have multi.

Jay Stang:

There have been books and books and books and thousands of pages written on that.

Jay Stang:

But was the base cause too much prosperity, too much.

Jay Stang:

Too many of the good times, too much soft living because they didn't have to do anything?

Jay Stang:

If you didn't go to Vietnam, then the world was your oyster.

Jay Stang:

Your savings account paid you ten or 15% interest, if you can imagine that.

Jay Stang:

And everything was cheap, and women were really good looking, and they were all over the place.

Jay Stang:

Now you walk around, whoa, a really beautiful woman is not as common as you think in some places.

Jay Stang:

So there was a lot of affluence and ease.

Jay Stang:

And if you watch Conan the barbarian, right, Mako, his chronicler, says it right after they get the jewel of set, the eye of set, and they sell it for tons of money, and they're drinking and they're partying, and they pass out, and his head drops into his gruel.

Jay Stang:

He says, test.

Jay Stang:

Even the strongest man, he totally passes out.

Jay Stang:

And then they drag him in front of the kingdom.

Jay Stang:

So success can be definitely the strongest test of all, because it's when it's easy and everything is going well, it's harder to say no than when you have nothing to lose.

Jay Stang:

The chains went on slowly but surely.

Jay Stang:

But the boomers, yeah, they definitely screwed the pooch.

Jay Stang:

They had it too easy.

Jay Stang:

And you can go on forever.

Jay Stang:

Why that is right.

Jay Stang:

I, the greatest generation, the fought world War two, say, I don't want my kids to have to experience that, what I went through.

Jay Stang:

And so they excessively insulated their children from what they had to go through, not realizing that they were tough because they went through those trials and tribulations.

Jay Stang:

The absence of struggle makes weak men.

Jay Stang:

So if you make life too soft, men become soft because they don't need it.

Jay Stang:

It's a physiological response.

Jay Stang:

Old ladies and old people break their hips and their bones all the time because their bones shed mass because it's unnecessary.

Jay Stang:

That's why your grandma should be squatting heavy, because otherwise your bones get rid of the muscle, your body gets rid of the muscle.

Jay Stang:

Your bones get rid of the weight of the extra mass because they don't need it.

Jay Stang:

That's why they have osteoporosis in their bone snap.

Jay Stang:

It's because they've been sitting around not doing anything right.

Jay Stang:

I don't think osteoporosis was as big as a deal when there's a lot of farm chores to be done for elderly people, because you were working, you were moving, you were feeding chickens, you're doing everything but the modern lifestyle, especially for my grandmother was born in 19.

Jay Stang:

e exact year, but she died in:

Jay Stang:

So, yeah, early 20th century, she broke both of her hips, and she's in her late eighties.

Jay Stang:

But I think that's a modern phenomenon, people breaking hips and falling down and not being able to get up because you just do less.

Jay Stang:

And so your body's compensated for that.

Jay Stang:

Bye.

Jay Stang:

Shedding unnecessary mass.

Jay Stang:

If you're not using it, your body gets rid of it.

Jay Stang:

So if life is too good and too soft, your body, as a result is soft.

Will Spencer:

And that in itself, it makes sense.

Will Spencer:

It's just that when men defend their softness, that's the part that gets frustrating.

Will Spencer:

It's like you point out to the boomers, like, hey, things were pretty good when you were a child, and now they're not.

Will Spencer:

And we'll just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you show them actual economic numbers, like, no, that's impossible, given the construction, for example, rent versus income, etcetera.

Will Spencer:

And they'll defend themselves to the death.

Will Spencer:

But you also have that with men on social media, where you tell them that they need to be stronger, they need to be more resilient, whether it be physically or emotionally, and they defend their weakness.

Will Spencer:

And that's the part that gets very frustrating.

Jay Stang:

Yes.

Jay Stang:

And I think there are two aspects of that.

Jay Stang:

Pain and responsibility.

Jay Stang:

It hurts physically and mentally to do hard things if you're not used to doing them, but also to admit the pain of avoiding your responsibility, whether you say, yes, I was lazy and weak and I didn't do these things, and now that's why I'm lazy and weak and soft.

Jay Stang:

Is having to admit that you made a mistake or your whole life has been a mistake.

Will Spencer:

Yep.

Jay Stang:

Getting a man to admit that his entire life, all of his interests, all of his hobbies, everything, has been a lie, a mistake, and he knew it the whole time.

Jay Stang:

That that's not going to sell very well.

Jay Stang:

But they don't want to admit responsibility on social media for why they're weak.

Jay Stang:

And so that's why you get that pushback, right?

Jay Stang:

But the antidote is realizing that you are in control of your life.

Jay Stang:

No one's coming to save you, and saying, I will take complete and total responsibility of everything in my life.

Jay Stang:

Everything in my life, I am responsible for 100%.

Jay Stang:

That's the only way you can better yourself.

Jay Stang:

Because it's not saying I'm a victim or it's not my fault, or I'm just like this saying, I control my destiny, and so I can choose to let my destiny wither on the vine, or I can make my destiny awesome, and I can become awesome, and I have the power to do it.

Jay Stang:

I just have to decide to do it.

Jay Stang:

I can do anything if I just decide to do it.

Jay Stang:

Now.

Will Spencer:

I think a lot about this.

Will Spencer:

The strength that a man or woman has to have to allow their self esteem to be shattered by comparing it with reality.

Will Spencer:

Because I plan to write more about this.

Will Spencer:

The word esteem is based on the word estimate.

Will Spencer:

Your self esteem is your self estimation.

Will Spencer:

Like, I'm estimating my exactly right?

Will Spencer:

Well, yeah, sort of, but it's more like.

Will Spencer:

Well, I'm just kind of guessing that this is how I am.

Will Spencer:

It's sort of like a subjective measurement, but I'm personally terrible at estimating anything.

Will Spencer:

How many pennies are in this jar?

Will Spencer:

How many marbles are in the jarved?

Will Spencer:

No one ever gets that right.

Will Spencer:

Or it's a lucky guess.

Will Spencer:

So the self estimation needs to be shattered with a perspective on reality, right?

Will Spencer:

Like, step on the.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

What does an estimate provide?

Jay Stang:

A repair estimate is the value of.

Jay Stang:

The value of the repair.

Jay Stang:

How much is going to cost you to fix it?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Give me an estimate on this.

Jay Stang:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

It has a dollar sign attached to it, which is a value.

Will Spencer:

Yep.

Jay Stang:

So, what is your self estimation, your self esteem.

Jay Stang:

What is your value based on?

Jay Stang:

Is it based off of cheap talk, or is it based off of accomplishments?

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

In many cases.

Will Spencer:

Sorry.

Will Spencer:

Go ahead.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, I'm just saying, you can't.

Jay Stang:

An accomplishment is something that can't be taken away.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

If you go to a powerlifting contest and you lift x amount of weight total, no one can take it away from you.

Jay Stang:

That's an accomplishment.

Jay Stang:

You say, yeah, I did that.

Jay Stang:

So you can have self esteem that's based on concrete deeds and accomplishments, and no one can say, no, you didn't do that.

Jay Stang:

If you just say it, everybody knows the talk is cheap.

Jay Stang:

And so that's why raising your self esteem by telling yourself stuff while you're sitting on the couch doesn't do anything because it doesn't translate into action.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

And you have to take that self estimation, and you need to apply it to the real world and see what shakes out.

Will Spencer:

Because an estimate is just an estimate.

Will Spencer:

Like, this is how much I think it's going to cost.

Will Spencer:

And then when you actually get in and start doing the work, you see it's going to cost a whole lot more.

Will Spencer:

And so many people are resistant to having that encounter with not just the estimation, but the reality.

Will Spencer:

But I always found that amount of personal responsibility.

Will Spencer:

I take total responsibility.

Will Spencer:

Like, yeah, it hurt, but it was freeing versus saying it's someone else's fault.

Will Spencer:

Because if it's someone else's fault, I can't do anything about it.

Will Spencer:

Like, if I take total accountability and total responsibility up and above my own instinct to blame shift, because we all have that.

Will Spencer:

We all want to intuitively be like, no, it lands on me and let me go find the moments in my life where I actually chose the exit points.

Will Spencer:

Yes, of course, we're all a combination of our choices and our circumstances, and we get different circumflex.

Will Spencer:

And that's just true.

Will Spencer:

Like, we didn't all choose Covid and we had to respond to those circumstances, but did we respond wisely, or did we respond foolishly, et cetera.

Will Spencer:

So being able to take that responsibility on and compare oneself against an objective standard is really freeing.

Will Spencer:

As long as you just can get past your pride, and so many people just can't.

Will Spencer:

They don't have that move.

Jay Stang:

You can think of a couple mental images to accompany that thought.

Jay Stang:

If you don't take responsibility, it's like you're taking a shower, but you're not getting clean.

Jay Stang:

Or there's still lingering dirt or cobwebs in the corner, and you know it's there, and it kind of like a thorn in the flesh.

Jay Stang:

It digs at you, right?

Jay Stang:

Because you know that there is lingering self doubt, lingering after effects.

Jay Stang:

But if you take full responsibility, the chains all drop off of you because you come clean, right?

Jay Stang:

Getting back to what you just said about self esteem being shattered.

Jay Stang:

A really good example of what happens when your self esteem really gets shattered and you get built back up by concrete accomplishments is if you look at boot camp and the military.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah, right.

Jay Stang:

If you go in there and they break you down completely and then they build you back up.

Jay Stang:

People say that sometimes, like, it's a bad thing, but if you think about it, you come in as an individual and you leave as a team.

Jay Stang:

But you can't leave as a team until the individual learns how to work in a group and work in a hierarchy and admit, yes, I'm a disgusting food blister.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Nasty thing, or whatever the term that the drill instructors or drill, whatever they use to characterize you when you get there, right.

Jay Stang:

Because you haven't earned it.

Jay Stang:

Getting back to the estimation of the value, you haven't earned the right to be called a marine or a soldier or a sailor or a green beret or force recon or navy seal, whatever it is.

Jay Stang:

There's a very clear black and white distinction between, okay, you showed up good.

Jay Stang:

You took the first step, but you haven't earned it yet.

Jay Stang:

And to earn it, you're going to have to work really hard, and it's going to be painful, and you have to take the responsibility to keep going and not quit.

Jay Stang:

The bell in buds is very important because every day you don't ring the bell.

Jay Stang:

You're taking responsibility for yourself and you're choosing not to quit.

Will Spencer:

That's one of the things that I forget that you were.

Will Spencer:

I believe you were in the Marines, correct?

Jay Stang:

I.

Jay Stang:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

Maybe you can put some of these pieces together then, some of your experience in the Marine Corps.

Jay Stang:

Well, what you can do is if you watch full metal jacket, full metal jacket is exactly the way it was when I was in boot camp in the mid nineties.

Jay Stang:

The only difference is they can't punch you or choke you for no reason.

Will Spencer:

For no reason, right?

Jay Stang:

Yeah, they have to.

Jay Stang:

They'll help you find a reason.

Jay Stang:

But it was mid nineties.

Jay Stang:

irborne, landed in Grenada in:

Jay Stang:

So, you know, the mid nineties, you still had a lot of Vietnam and a lot of, you know, a lot of those guys that were still around from, you know, the eight seventies, eighties.

Jay Stang:

But at that time, it was exactly like, you see if you watch full metal jacket.

Jay Stang:

Exactly.

Jay Stang:

So if you want to know what boot camp was like for me, just watch the movie and you'll get 98.

Will Spencer:

99% of it, minus the.

Will Spencer:

Minus the insane.

Will Spencer:

I can't remember.

Will Spencer:

I can't remember the name of the.

Jay Stang:

The private and all that.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, there's nothing like that.

Jay Stang:

The rifles were all locked up at night, so of course nothing like that happened.

Jay Stang:

But there were, you know, there were people that couldn't take it and cracked under the pressure, and if you didn't do what you did, those people would slip through, and then they would crack under the pressure.

Jay Stang:

In the real world of the fleet or in wartime and not in boot camp.

Jay Stang:

So that vetting or filtering is very essential to make sure that everybody there has earned their place there legitimately.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, that's.

Will Spencer:

And you mentioned the bell at Buds, the Navy SeAL training.

Will Spencer:

That's actually, people have this shame associated with it, and I get that.

Will Spencer:

And that's not invalid, but at the same time, bring the bell because the men who you're alongside, they need to know that you're not going to quit in that moment.

Jay Stang:

They deserve to have someone next to them that's not going to quit.

Jay Stang:

When things get really rough because they're in the same boat you are, they're there next to you.

Jay Stang:

And if they can do it, you can, too.

Jay Stang:

You just have to choose to not give up.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

And if you've made it that far, you know, through the buds where they're actively trying to get you, to get you to tap out, like, we want you to leave so that we know that every man who graduates is not going to quit in the crucial moment.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

But then that in, if you have what it takes, that's a challenge.

Jay Stang:

You think you're going to get me to quit?

Jay Stang:

You don't know anything about me.

Jay Stang:

I'm going to prove you wrong.

Jay Stang:

It's one of the most powerful male instincts where impulses there is, is defiance towards someone challenging you.

Jay Stang:

Oh, you.

Jay Stang:

You're going to quit?

Jay Stang:

You don't have what it takes, right?

Jay Stang:

You're a pussy.

Jay Stang:

I'm going to prove you wrong.

Jay Stang:

I'm going to walk all over you and prove that I've got what it takes.

Jay Stang:

And I'm going to make you look stupid because I'm going to prove to you that I deserve to be here and that I have earned my place, whether it's in buzz or the military or wherever it is.

Jay Stang:

That's a common dynamic where someone says, no, you don't have what it takes and they're pushing you to see what you're made of.

Jay Stang:

And if you agree.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah, you're right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah, I'm a loser.

Jay Stang:

No one is a loser until they decide they are a loser.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

No one is.

Jay Stang:

No one can tell you that you're a loser and have it be true unless you agree with them.

Jay Stang:

That's the defiance.

Jay Stang:

Shaking your fist in the tyrant's face, that's that impulse.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

There is no, you're wrong.

Jay Stang:

I'm going to prove you wrong.

Jay Stang:

So that's a very strong masculine impulse that you need to recognize and foster and cultivate because that is what gets you through a lot of tough situations, is when people write you off for they don't take you seriously.

Jay Stang:

You got to show up and prove them wrong, that you're a serious player, that you are someone that has earned respect and has earned his place wherever it is in life, in a man's life.

Will Spencer:

And that's one of those instincts to prove someone wrong that's been bred out of men, along with the comfort, along with the low testosterone, to be actually challenged by a man and say, I don't think you are who you say you are.

Will Spencer:

I'll prove you wrong.

Jay Stang:

You can be.

Jay Stang:

It can be.

Jay Stang:

You see that on Twitter all of a sudden, like, oh, who are you?

Jay Stang:

You don't know anything.

Jay Stang:

Like, you don't know anything about me.

Jay Stang:

You don't know what I've done.

Jay Stang:

Like, oh, how would you know that?

Jay Stang:

That's very common on Twitter.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

You see, people say, oh, yeah, what do you know?

Jay Stang:

You're, you're an idiot.

Jay Stang:

Well, you don't know anything about me, right?

Jay Stang:

You're making yourself look stupid because you're just assuming things about me that you want to assume, and you don't know anything about me at all.

Jay Stang:

But it's, you have to.

Jay Stang:

It's bred out of them.

Jay Stang:

It's bred out of men to a certain extent, but it's waiting there, right on the edge to jump right back in if they know.

Jay Stang:

If you don't know what's happening.

Jay Stang:

Once someone points out the noticing.

Jay Stang:

Right, the noticing part, once someone helps you notice it or see it, then you can't unsee it.

Jay Stang:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

He's saying you don't have what it takes.

Jay Stang:

If you're a mandehead, and I know you are, then you have what it takes to prove him wrong.

Jay Stang:

You have to decide, and you have it in you already because you're a man.

Jay Stang:

It's in your DNA that it's in you to prove him wrong.

Jay Stang:

You just have to decide to grab ahold of that quality within you and to use it.

Jay Stang:

But that's why they're so afraid, and that's why this process just gets crazier and crazier because they know at a certain point it's going to fall apart.

Jay Stang:

They can't keep the lie going indefinitely because all it takes is a spark to make a wildfire.

Jay Stang:

And that's why men sign up for these $15,000 boot camps, right, where they get yelled at because they know something is missing.

Jay Stang:

They don't know what it is, and they're trying to find it.

Jay Stang:

It's the hero's adventure, the hero's journey from Campbell.

Jay Stang:

They know something's there.

Jay Stang:

They've heard the call to adventure, as Campbell puts it, and they don't know what it is yet, but they hear it, and it's making something resonate within themselves, and they have to go looking for it.

Jay Stang:

So I don't bag on men who pay the money to do that, because what I see is they know that there's something inside them that isn't satisfied with at the beginning of fight club.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

How is that working out for you?

Jay Stang:

How does this Ikea living room said define me?

Jay Stang:

It doesn't.

Jay Stang:

And so men know that that's missing, and they're looking for it.

Jay Stang:

So I don't think there's any shame in doing those things at all.

Jay Stang:

But you have to recognize what is actually happening here.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

And I'm glad you mentioned that.

Will Spencer:

The boot camp that you're talking about is.

Will Spencer:

I believe it's the one run by Bedros Coolion, the modern day night project.

Jay Stang:

There are a lot of them.

Jay Stang:

Lot of Nick culottes runs.

Jay Stang:

One.

Jay Stang:

A few years ago, when I was 41 or 42, I put.

Jay Stang:

I put in the package for recon to join the Marine Corps reserve, to join back up.

Jay Stang:

And so for a couple years, I trained myself back into shape, and I used Nick Komalots book recon prep to do it.

Jay Stang:

But the recruiters, the sergeant who was 20 something years younger than I am, I didn't believe I could do it.

Jay Stang:

And I said, I don't know.

Jay Stang:

You don't know who you're talking to.

Jay Stang:

I trained myself back into shape at the age of 42 to successfully pass recon using his book.

Jay Stang:

And he's got a program, the agoge, a G o G E.

Jay Stang:

Program.

Jay Stang:

And he knows Bedros, and they all know each other, so he's got his own program, and I I see nothing but good things about it.

Jay Stang:

But I recently went through that, and I went to one of these programs as a four or five day program because I wanted to gauge where my fitness level was in my training, as I did my workup to put in the package to join fourth recon battalion in San Antonio.

Jay Stang:

So I did it because I wanted to see if I had been training myself effectively, if I was where I needed to be.

Jay Stang:

So I went to one of these.

Jay Stang:

And it was easy.

Will Spencer:

It was easy.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

I smoked it all.

Jay Stang:

And so I knew, okay, my training is on track because recon is a lot of swimming, right?

Jay Stang:

,:

Jay Stang:

So I wanted to make sure, get some validation that, yeah, my training was where it needed to be.

Jay Stang:

So that's why I did one of those programs.

Jay Stang:

And so I was there for a different reason.

Jay Stang:

But I could see that since I was doing that program, I could see why some of the other guys that were there were doing it because they wanted to prove themselves.

Jay Stang:

They wanted to make sure that they were chasing the right things and getting the right values and qualities and accomplishments.

Jay Stang:

It's the accomplishments that they were, the internal toughness that they were looking for.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, I don't have a problem with any of those programs at all.

Will Spencer:

My only problem is from having done several of them.

Will Spencer:

But this is before the age of smartphones.

Will Spencer:

So the thing is, when you have an environment where you've seen people crawling up a dirt hill or there are lots of men's initiations, what isn't obvious is that those men have entered into a ritual space in their minds, but the smartphone camera doesn't capture that.

Will Spencer:

It just captures these guys crawling up a dirt hill and being yelled at.

Will Spencer:

But inside this guy's mind, they're in an imaginal space, which is completely valid.

Will Spencer:

It's a completely valid thing.

Will Spencer:

But the camera doesn't pick that up.

Will Spencer:

Put the cameras away, you know, like, otherwise, let the moment, let the men have their moment.

Jay Stang:

You can't capture that.

Jay Stang:

You can watch any kind of bootcamp video and it's a little flat.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Because you can't, you don't.

Jay Stang:

Or a flight simulator or a combat call of duty.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Any of these simulators or Call of Duty.

Jay Stang:

I mean, I like playing Call of Duty, whatever, right.

Jay Stang:

But because you have to feel the heat and the pressure and the stress and the fatigue, and you have to have all those physiological factors that go along with running around with a rifle and combat gear, 50 pounds of combat gear on, and getting up and jumping down on the ground, low crawling.

Jay Stang:

You got to get up and run from the prone position.

Jay Stang:

I'm up.

Jay Stang:

They see me on down every 5 seconds.

Jay Stang:

You got to run and sprint and then jump down before you get your head shot off.

Jay Stang:

You lose that component.

Jay Stang:

If you're watching, you know, watching things is, you know, there are things you can watch, right, that that aren't gonna do you a lot of good, right.

Jay Stang:

But the call of duty stuff is.

Jay Stang:

Is like that, where you don't have the full experience that they're having.

Jay Stang:

And so you're only seeing a few of the colors that are there.

Jay Stang:

You're the dog looking at the rainbow.

Jay Stang:

And so the guys that are doing that, they've got all of.

Jay Stang:

They've got the full picture.

Jay Stang:

They've got the stress of it and a lot.

Jay Stang:

Everything that they do there, every training program, the military, firearms, all that, it's to induce stress in a safe and measured amount and then being able to perform under that stress.

Jay Stang:

So going back to bootcamp again, they yell and they scream and they count down, you know, I'm gonna give you the count of ten.

Jay Stang:

1210.

Jay Stang:

You're not really supposed to be able to do it.

Jay Stang:

They want to induce a controlled amount of stress so that they can simulate combat.

Jay Stang:

You can make your bed, you can tie your boots, you can stand online.

Jay Stang:

You can do whatever you need to do with this carefully manufactured amount and type of stress without them actually shooting at you and throwing grenades at you.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

So then when you get out into an actual unit, and then if you have to fight somebody that's not an alien feeling.

Jay Stang:

You can shoot and move under fire, under pressure.

Jay Stang:

And the lack of a lot of that is you can see it, the effects of society, where, you know, you're not getting in fist fights these days.

Jay Stang:

People just pull out guns and shoot you.

Jay Stang:

Or knives.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But getting into fights when you were a kid is important because you have to be, you know, have to know what it feels like to get punched in the mouth.

Jay Stang:

If you don't know what it gets punched in the mouth, then you have the tendency to run your mouth on social media.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Like Mike Tyson says, people get way too comfortable running their mouths on social media.

Jay Stang:

And then when Mike Tyson is standing in front of you, what are you going to say when Iron Mike is standing right in front of you?

Jay Stang:

So there are elements to masculinity that are missing intentionally, but it's not impossible at all to get them back.

Jay Stang:

Not at all.

Will Spencer:

And I think men underestimate the value of engaging in these processes.

Will Spencer:

And it's not even that you win.

Will Spencer:

It's that you just don't quit.

Will Spencer:

Like, you can be ground down to powder, you can be literally, physically unable to be crawling up that dirt mountain, but just don't stop moving, just keep going.

Will Spencer:

And that is a very powerful place to be.

Will Spencer:

I may not make it, but I'm not going to quit.

Will Spencer:

And that's the place that I think real masculinity is born out of.

Will Spencer:

Like, you're not.

Will Spencer:

You're not going to.

Will Spencer:

You're going to have to kill me to stop me.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And that's.

Will Spencer:

That's a great place to get to, that.

Will Spencer:

Not enough men have the chance to get there.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

And that is.

Jay Stang:

That's the ultimate lesson.

Jay Stang:

There is not to quit.

Jay Stang:

But that.

Jay Stang:

That lesson has no value sitting on your couch.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

You have to be exhausted.

Jay Stang:

You have to be in pain.

Jay Stang:

You have to be sleep deprived.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

You can't get.

Jay Stang:

You have the ritual, if you put it that way.

Jay Stang:

You have to get to that point where you want to give up with every fiber of your being, but then you decide not to anyway.

Jay Stang:

And you cannot get to that point without going through the rest of it.

Jay Stang:

You have to endure the hardships.

Jay Stang:

Otherwise, the decision not to quit has no value because it's easy to watch a football game, say, ah, you know, well, you know, why didn't you catch that pass?

Jay Stang:

Or how did you get intercepted?

Jay Stang:

Or, man, you let that guy tackle you like, you know, what a loser.

Jay Stang:

Like, you know, that chick is ugly.

Jay Stang:

I would never, you know, I'd never bang her.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

It's meaningless because you'd never be in the position to turn her down in the first place, right?

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah.

Jay Stang:

Victoria senior model Otal Brady's up, dudes.

Jay Stang:

I.

Jay Stang:

But it's a meaningless statement, right?

Jay Stang:

Because you would never put the work and the effort and the time into being Tom Brady to get to that point in the first place where you're deciding, okay, am I going to be with Gisele Bunchen or the other?

Jay Stang:

I don't know.

Jay Stang:

Wherever the point is, you have to do the work and undergo the pain and the time to be in that position where that decision of yours means something, because it means nothing on your smartphone or on your couch or watching the game on Sunday on tv, for any of those decisions to mean something.

Jay Stang:

You have to get to the point.

Jay Stang:

You have to earn the right to make those decisions.

Will Spencer:

You make me think that there's so many ways in our culture today, and that's probably been true for.

Will Spencer:

Seriously true for 40 years, probably marginally true for 100 years, especially where it's so easy for men to spectate masculinity, whether it be sports or movies or video games or like, we're surrounded by men doing the thing.

Will Spencer:

And it's easy to get an amount of vicarious thrill like, oh, I did that because I watched the Indiana Jones movie.

Will Spencer:

That's why we get worked up about movies.

Will Spencer:

But if you were to wind back the clock 150 years, there wasn't really a whole lot of masculinity to spectate.

Will Spencer:

You actually had to do it.

Will Spencer:

Like, of course, we had hero stories in the Bible and stuff like that, but that's not exactly the same as like, well, I can watch ESPN or I can watch.

Jay Stang:

Not as relatable.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

I mean, they were still heroes, of course.

Will Spencer:

Absolutely.

Will Spencer:

But you would read about them in the newspaper if they were real men, or you would read great books that would then inspire you to greatness as opposed to getting the vicarious thrill of watching someone else do it through their eyes.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Reading and watching are very different activities.

Jay Stang:

Completely different.

Jay Stang:

So reading books about men of valorous mighty, men of valor, completely different from watching them do it because there's that vicarious or voyeuristic nature of watching is a completely different pathway than reading about it in a book where your mind is generating images.

Jay Stang:

So your mind is doing work, but if you're watching it, your mind is not even doing that.

Jay Stang:

Your mind is just completely disengaged and receiving.

Jay Stang:

Men are supposed to not receive, men are supposed to pursue.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So watching is a very feminine activity if you want to think about it that way.

Jay Stang:

But I don't know, maybe that's a little too esoteric.

Jay Stang:

Esoteric twitter right there, but let's go there.

Jay Stang:

Watching on a couch is not as masculine as getting out and doing it.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

That's why I get in a lot of trouble for saying this, but that's why I don't think audiobooks are reading.

Will Spencer:

Like, yes, I know you commute and not you necessarily, but you drive and I get all that, but it's a very different thing to sit down with a book and read it and have to process the language in your own mind, in your own voice and stop and think versus just letting the book just casually wash over you.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

One time I drove from Houston to El Paso on a work trip, and I got an audiobook of Lord of the Rings, 10 hours.

Jay Stang:

Listened to it as I drove from Houston, El Paso.

Jay Stang:

But the difference was I'd read the full fellowship of the Ring probably 30 times in a book.

Jay Stang:

So it's a little different because I've read it so many times from COVID to cover.

Jay Stang:

But if you've never read the book before, it's completely different, I guess, neurological pathway to watch or to listen than it is to actually read.

Jay Stang:

Reading is much more experiential.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

I mean, you have to.

Will Spencer:

You're reading the words and you're imagining the scenario.

Will Spencer:

You're engaging your imagination while you're taking in the words and you're imagining, like when you watch a movie, and I love movies.

Will Spencer:

I don't mean to take anything away from them.

Will Spencer:

Or when, or when you listen to someone read it for you, some part of the imaginative work is being done.

Will Spencer:

Done for you.

Will Spencer:

I guess listening to an audiobook, you're getting tone and inflection and all these different things where they're through the good voice actors use of his own voice.

Jay Stang:

Their tone and their inflection.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

That's right, that's right.

Will Spencer:

Well, and there's a way in which they can even paint the picture.

Will Spencer:

Like Andy Serkis, the guy who plays Gollum.

Will Spencer:

I guess there's a Lord of the Rings audiobook version that's narrated by him.

Will Spencer:

And you can imagine how much drama he would put into that, that your own imagination would otherwise have to supply if you're reading it yourself.

Will Spencer:

And I think it makes people dumber.

Will Spencer:

Like, yes, I'm so grateful we can consume so much information now through audiobooks.

Will Spencer:

Yes, it's great.

Will Spencer:

And if you use audiobooks as a substitute for reading print books, you're making yourself dumber.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jay Stang:

I agree with you there 100%.

Will Spencer:

So one of the things that I've enjoyed talking with you about is movies.

Will Spencer:

We were going to originally record this on Tuesday, which was the 37th anniversary of.

Will Spencer:

I think it's your favorite film of all time, of Predator.

Will Spencer:

So maybe we can talk a little bit about this one.

Jay Stang:

That's a bold statement to make.

Jay Stang:

My favorite film of all time.

Jay Stang:

That's a tough question, Will.

Will Spencer:

Okay, fair.

Jay Stang:

I don't want to call you Barbara Walters from now on, but, you know, please don't.

Jay Stang:

You're asking the tough questions.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, it would be tough to say, premature.

Jay Stang:

Would, of course, be up there, for sure.

Jay Stang:

Best movie ever.

Jay Stang:

And that'll be hard to.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah.

Will Spencer:

Well, I just mean to assign that choice.

Will Spencer:

I know, I know.

Will Spencer:

It's just the one that we take around the most.

Jay Stang:

It's got to be top five of all time.

Jay Stang:

Predator.

Jay Stang:

It's, you know, it's a very simple movie.

Jay Stang:

It's very, very direct.

Jay Stang:

It is.

Jay Stang:

It's awesome in every way.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Stang:

Plus, as a side benefit, the end credits can be set to the theme music from full house.

Jay Stang:

And it's.

Jay Stang:

And you can't tell that it was not originally set to full house.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Sips coffee, smiles at the camera.

Jay Stang:

You know, catches an mp5 or the golden girl.

Jay Stang:

Thank you for being a friend.

Will Spencer:

That's the one that I saw.

Will Spencer:

The Golden Girls theme song.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

It's one of those films that there's a video.

Will Spencer:

I'll see if I can find it.

Will Spencer:

I think it's by this guy, Rob Ager.

Will Spencer:

Collative learning.

Will Spencer:

And he does film analysis, among many other things, on YouTube.

Will Spencer:

And he does a breakdown of that particular movie and just how, like, the scene where Carl Weathers character dies, he does it.

Will Spencer:

Dylan.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, Dylan.

Will Spencer:

Where he does a breakdown of that scene and how it was constructed.

Will Spencer:

And you see, like, you watch it and it feels so simple, but there was a lot of thought that went into it.

Will Spencer:

And, like, that's mastery is where you.

Will Spencer:

It's completely transparent.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

The simplicity of a scene where it appears to be simple, but then the more you pay attention, the more layers there are of the onion.

Jay Stang:

You peel back of just this one simple scene where he finally sees it.

Jay Stang:

He's been like, yeah, whatever.

Jay Stang:

Okay, Dutch, you know, whatever you say.

Jay Stang:

But then when he finally sees it and the reality really hits him.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Figuratively and then physically, there's a lot going on in that scene where he finds.

Jay Stang:

You can see it in his face and his eyes.

Jay Stang:

Also testament to Carl Weather's ability as an actor to portray that epiphany effectively, where he finally sees the ripple of the predator with his own eyes.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

The faith becomes sight.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And he says, and then it's over for him.

Jay Stang:

But he finally, in his dying moments, he says, oh, yeah, this was real.

Jay Stang:

Now it's ripping my arm off.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, well, we forget that the actors have to imagine what that looks like.

Will Spencer:

You know, they're not given.

Will Spencer:

They don't see the graphics or the.

Will Spencer:

Or the special effects that we have.

Will Spencer:

They have to imagine it in their minds and make it believable for someone watching so that you aren't aware that that's an actor.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

They have to effectively convey the pathos and the emotions.

Jay Stang:

And, you know, what that character would be seeing, feeling, experienced.

Jay Stang:

They have to communicate that.

Jay Stang:

And sometimes, without even saying anything, so incredibly, it definitely is mastery.

Jay Stang:

Just in that one little simple scene where he comes face to face with the predator, for sure.

Will Spencer:

And it's funny that these were some really big, fit, strong, capable dudes that were incredible actors.

Will Spencer:

But that's the part that gets lost.

Will Spencer:

We kind of take it for granted a little bit.

Will Spencer:

You want to talk about a renaissance man.

Will Spencer:

You have bodybuilders and wrestlers, and they're very skilled actors in films that hold up today.

Jay Stang:

Future governors.

Will Spencer:

Yes, that's right.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Schwarzenegger, Ventura, future governors.

Jay Stang:

So, yeah, there's a lot, it seems like a simple testosterone flick, but there really is so much more to it.

Jay Stang:

If you had a movie of any of the greek myths made, you could have it at that same level with a whole lot more going on under the surface where someone can easily write off as just a sword and sandals flick, as they used to call them.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But if you put the skill into it, you can really make something really worthwhile, even if it's 3 hours long.

Will Spencer:

So I want to go back to talking about your father.

Will Spencer:

Did he pass along a lot of these values?

Will Spencer:

Because it seems since the time that you and I have known each other, it seems like there have been a lot of things that you've just kind of known that you grew up with where we met in a world full of men that were learning these things.

Will Spencer:

Things.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, it's.

Jay Stang:

f time, because I was born in:

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

In New York City.

Jay Stang:

So the world he grew up in was the world of Cary Grant, literally.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Because he worked in radio.

Jay Stang:

So he knew a lot of these people personally.

Jay Stang:

So if you look at the movie to catch a thief or the Fred Astaire movies, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, the Marx Brothers movies, that was his world.

Jay Stang:

And so I got to experience a lot of that world I wouldn't be able to normally experience if my dad had been born in the fifties, when my mom was born in 52.

Jay Stang:

So if my dad had been born in 52, that element or that slice of the way the world was, I wouldn't have access to.

Jay Stang:

So in a way, and then if you even listen to my voice, since my dad was in radio in the fifties, the transatlantic radio voice.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

That's the voice I grew up listening to for my father.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

The transatlantic radio voice from New York City.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But I've lived in Texas, and my mom is from Texas, and her family's from Louisiana and all over Texas, but I don't really have a very discernible Texas accent unless I really punch it up.

Jay Stang:

And that's because listening to my mom, who's from Texas, and then my dad, who's a very sophisticated, highly educated urbanite from New York City.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So I'm kind of in the middle of myself on a lot of things, just also with my voice.

Jay Stang:

And the older I get, the more my voice sounds like my dad's and the more I resemble him in the face.

Jay Stang:

So, yeah, it's a very interesting or unique way when your parents are that far apart, you get that, right?

Jay Stang:

So you get that kind of, you know, two different worlds that you were able to experience.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And your dad was also a political commentator, so he was in the John Birch society.

Will Spencer:

He wrote some articles, as I recall, against feminism, and among many other things.

Jay Stang:

Quite a lot against feminism.

Will Spencer:

Okay, well, let's go.

Will Spencer:

Let's go.

Jay Stang:

Let's do it.

Will Spencer:

Let's do it.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

Then we'll get into.

Will Spencer:

We'll get into drill instructors, and we'll get into some of the things we've been seeing on Twitter lately.

Will Spencer:

We'll just dive off into that.

Jay Stang:

Right, right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

So the interesting.

Jay Stang:

There are a lot of interesting takes on feminism.

Jay Stang:

One of the most interesting is the very mistaken conception that feminism started out in good faith and then lost its way along the way.

Jay Stang:

There's someone on Twitter, Rachel Wilson, who's very, very good, I think you know her about.

Jay Stang:

Written about the occult origins of feminism, the cult communist, you know, atheist origins of feminism.

Jay Stang:

Is it Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B.

Jay Stang:

Anthony, I think, or occultists in.

Jay Stang:

If you go back to that time around the 20th century, there were a lot of that stuff going on, seances and a lot of that stuff where there's movies made about that kind of thing.

Jay Stang:

But feminism did not start out in good faith.

Jay Stang:

It didn't start out innocently.

Jay Stang:

It was always, from the beginning, an occult perversion to destroy the family.

Jay Stang:

And it has absolutely succeeded in doing that, even down to conservative christian men who get upset when you tell them their daughter shouldn't go to college or get married early.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And so many Twitter dust ups about that where people say, no, you shouldn't be having kids before you're 30, or you shouldn't get married young.

Jay Stang:

All this stuff, and they don't even realize that they're parroting what they've been told to think by the enemy of everything they value.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

No, that's the part that has been kind of shocking to me, is that when you take a step back and you no longer accept feminism or the principles, feminism, in a sense, the word itself is.

Will Spencer:

It's a mistake because you say feminism, and people think like a socioeconomic movement.

Will Spencer:

And that is true to an extent, but it actually operates on a deeper level, like feminism.

Will Spencer:

It's like a theology.

Will Spencer:

It's a whole worldview.

Will Spencer:

And so that allows men and women to say, I'm not a feminist, because they don't support the political ends, but they don't see that the principles behind it are just, they're very bones and blood in some ways.

Jay Stang:

Sure.

Jay Stang:

You can also the contrast between words themselves.

Jay Stang:

If you add an ism onto a lot of things, you get communism, socialism, liberalism, environmentalism, Leninism, Marxism, trotskyism.

Jay Stang:

There are a lot of really negative ideas that have the word ism attached to the end of it.

Jay Stang:

I think that's very interesting.

Jay Stang:

They rhyme with each other.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

And they all fit together, right?

Jay Stang:

They do.

Will Spencer:

And in a sense, conservatism.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

People, what may previously have had a good sense of that word, but as we talked about earlier, that's just not the case.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Because there can never be one definition of it because it's an enabling verb.

Jay Stang:

You're conserving what?

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

So nowadays people are conserving feminism.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And that's considered a conservative principle in some ways.

Jay Stang:

Or they say, hands off my Social Security, Medicare.

Jay Stang:

That's conservative value.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Whoa.

Jay Stang:

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, that's what's one of the things, many things that's killing us.

Will Spencer:

Those were liberal programs, too, right?

Jay Stang:

Well, Social Security, the New Deal.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

People back then, the America first or the conservatives of the day were very opposed to the new deal.

Jay Stang:

And then over time, it became part of everybody's life.

Jay Stang:

And then they were conserving that because the word is only conserving what came before.

Jay Stang:

You're conserving something that's already existing.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And you're not returning or winding the clock back even, or restoring or having a renaissance of good things.

Jay Stang:

You're conserving what's already there.

Jay Stang:

So if there's a joke where the Democrats make changes, then the Republicans conserve them until the Democrats take power again.

Jay Stang:

It's the same concept.

Jay Stang:

You just have to get out of that, that verbal or ideological construct to realize what you're conserving.

Jay Stang:

What are you, what are the values?

Jay Stang:

If you lay them out in black and white, what are you really conserving?

Jay Stang:

And are those things you really want to be conserving?

Jay Stang:

There's a little bit of a dissonance there because we're supposed to be against feminism.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

What is it?

Jay Stang:

Feminism?

Jay Stang:

Well, it's pushing your children, your daughters into college instead of encouraging them to get married and have children, which is family formation.

Jay Stang:

Well, they need a career.

Jay Stang:

Why?

Jay Stang:

What if their husband leaves them?

Jay Stang:

Well, we should be making it attractive for husbands to stay with their families.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

It's not one thing.

Jay Stang:

It's a bunch of things that you need to put together in a basket.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And the response like, what if her husband leaves her is like, well, first of all, let's undo no fault divorce, right?

Will Spencer:

So let's make divorce difficult again.

Will Spencer:

But even then, the response to what if her husband leaves her is not to, well, maybe she should wait to get married until she's 30 or 35 years old in case of a.

Will Spencer:

What if the family gets shattered?

Will Spencer:

So we won't form a family at all.

Will Spencer:

Like, it's.

Will Spencer:

It's.

Will Spencer:

I mean, it's transparent.

Will Spencer:

Cope is what it is.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Why should I go to the gym?

Jay Stang:

I'm going to be old and weak one day.

Will Spencer:

Bingo.

Will Spencer:

Bingo.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

We're all going to die.

Will Spencer:

Like, why should I invest in.

Jay Stang:

It's nihilism.

Jay Stang:

But nobody connects the dots to something very innocuous like, oh, well, I want to make sure my daughter has a career just in case.

Jay Stang:

But the act of going to college to getting your career, it warps everything else because then the experiences you gained in the process of going to college to get a career set up, you are taking yourself out of contention for marrying young and marrying well.

Jay Stang:

The women that are married well are not on twitter all the time jumping up and down.

Jay Stang:

They're doing it.

Will Spencer:

I remember when I went to college, this was the first time I had ever heard this term.

Will Spencer:

And I wonder if it's still true anyway, it probably isn't, but that some women were there to get their Mrs.

Will Spencer:

Degree.

Will Spencer:

I remember hearing that within the first weeks of going to college, like, oh, there are women here actually to meet a husband.

Will Spencer:

And I suppose where I went to university, it makes sense.

Will Spencer:

But I wonder if anyone would ever say, and this was 96, so I wonder if anyone would say that at all nowadays about college.

Will Spencer:

Like, I'm going to college to meet a husband.

Will Spencer:

Like, almost guaranteed to be.

Will Spencer:

No, I'm going to college to meet, you know, a thousand boyfriends, probably.

Jay Stang:

I think it depends on the college.

Jay Stang:

A big straight school, you wouldn't be doing that right away.

Jay Stang:

But if you're going to a very small, elite private college that dad is paying $50,000 a year for, I think you're more likely to hear that.

Will Spencer:

Right?

Will Spencer:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I mean, with the expectation.

Will Spencer:

I just think it would be like, there was one woman who said it to me.

Will Spencer:

I guess she was a girl at that point, and she was very proud about it.

Will Spencer:

And I don't know how I feel about that.

Will Spencer:

In reflection.

Will Spencer:

I'm just here to get my Mrs.

Will Spencer:

Degree with a sort of predatory undertone kind of to it, like she's hunting.

Will Spencer:

But I suppose, all things considered, that's.

Jay Stang:

No, that's good.

Will Spencer:

Less bad option.

Jay Stang:

She's prioritizing marriage.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Will Spencer:

That's true, yeah.

Jay Stang:

In her opinion, where am I going to find the best prospects for marriage?

Jay Stang:

If I go to this elite school where there will be elite, top tier men there, then I'm going to take the steps and maximize my own prospects of marrying well.

Jay Stang:

So if you go to a very expensive elite college, the wealthy and elite, they all marry each other.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And so where do they put the boys and girls together?

Jay Stang:

At the boys college and the girls college.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And they have the social events, the mixers.

Jay Stang:

I think that still happens.

Jay Stang:

We just don't get a chance to look into that world.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But if the dad's paying $50,000 a year, he probably says, well, he's putting his daughter into the network, into the circles of that level of society.

Jay Stang:

So you look at the Krasenstein's right, on Twitter, would you know what kind of lifestyle they live?

Will Spencer:

They're very wealthy, Ben, aren't they?

Jay Stang:

Right, but it's white bread americana.

Will Spencer:

Oh, that's.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, of course.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

One of them has a wife who looks like she could be, you know, a swimsuit model, and they've got two master race kids.

Jay Stang:

Whoa.

Jay Stang:

This is Krastenstein, the big, you know, Biden, democratic booster.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

The degeneracy is for the common people.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Jay Stang:

The elites live lives that they know will get them the best benefit, but they tell you to sleep around or to delay marriage or children for a career.

Jay Stang:

So it's hypocritical.

Jay Stang:

You watch what they do, not what they say.

Jay Stang:

So if you want to emulate or you want to get the same results, you can decide unilaterally to step out of the rat race of, oh, I got to get my daughter into college.

Jay Stang:

I got to get her $100,000 in student debt for a photography degree.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

You have the power to step out of that and to chase better outcomes for your children.

Jay Stang:

Tendencies.

Jay Stang:

Do homeschool them.

Jay Stang:

My daughter will never.

Jay Stang:

I have one.

Jay Stang:

She will never set foot on a college campus because we'll raise her in a very 19th century, early 20th century socialite education so that she can be a very effective wife and mother to, you know, like Melania and Donald.

Jay Stang:

Same kind of thing.

Jay Stang:

Because I'm choosing consciously to pursue those.

Will Spencer:

Outcomes and I think I can see how all the pieces fit together.

Will Spencer:

Like, you're your own boss, you're self employed, physically strong, capable, competent, been through the Marine Corps.

Will Spencer:

Like, no, I have the right to choose to raise my daughter this way and to live.

Will Spencer:

And I think a lot of liberals would say that's brainwashing or something like that.

Will Spencer:

As if the values.

Will Spencer:

Those values.

Will Spencer:

Exactly.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I mean, I shrug my shoulders, too, but, like, as if those values.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, exactly.

Will Spencer:

Like, tell me what you really think.

Jay Stang:

Deal with it.

Will Spencer:

So, but, I mean, there's a way in which, like, I guess they would be assuming the center in that way.

Will Spencer:

Like, you are some sort of radical extremist, right?

Will Spencer:

Like, well, no, like, you guys are the radical extremists, right?

Will Spencer:

I.

Jay Stang:

There's another component to that.

Jay Stang:

Well, it's incredibly important is, you know, when I was dating my wife, I asked her all the questions, right?

Jay Stang:

Because I want to make sure she would be on the same page.

Jay Stang:

Education, vaccinations, raw milk, all this stuff.

Jay Stang:

And she was on board, so she got to.

Jay Stang:

She got to come aboard, right.

Jay Stang:

But we don't have any disagreements with that because the vetting process, I asked her to the important questions that I needed the answers to know whether she would be along with me for that or if she would say, no.

Jay Stang:

No, how dare you?

Jay Stang:

My daughter will, or my kids will do all the normal, the normie stuff, and we're going to go to the doctor and get the full schedule, and we're going to eat white bread and all that public school and all that stuff.

Jay Stang:

So everybody does that.

Jay Stang:

It's, you select for the outcomes you.

Will Spencer:

Want, and you select for the outcomes you want.

Will Spencer:

And define your terms.

Will Spencer:

Like, these are the terms under which I'm going to marry somebody.

Will Spencer:

These are my values.

Will Spencer:

This is what I believe.

Jay Stang:

It's very masculine and patriarchal and fascist.

Will Spencer:

These are all, you say these, like, these are bad things, right?

Will Spencer:

Well, it makes me think of your father being in the John Birch society.

Will Spencer:

And hearing all this makes me realize how far communism has traveled.

Will Spencer:

Because if you think of communism as a couple different things, communism is a two tier society.

Will Spencer:

You have the public, the masses, and then you have the elites, and that's it.

Will Spencer:

The elites have one set of values, and the masses have another set of values.

Will Spencer:

That's two tier society.

Jay Stang:

Stores to shop from and restaurants to eat in and cars to ride in, clothes to wear.

Jay Stang:

Party elite could get Levi's shipped into Moscow in the seventies and eighties, but no one else could.

Jay Stang:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

They were more equal than the rest of the proletariat.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And when I was in China, traveling through, I actually met a communist party member, right?

Will Spencer:

And I could see, I wasn't exactly sure what it was at the time.

Will Spencer:

He was just really keen to talk to me.

Will Spencer:

He was super drunk and was ranting at me in Chinese for, like, a couple hours.

Will Spencer:

But I was like.

Will Spencer:

Like, he's enjoying getting drunk and talking at me.

Will Spencer:

So I'm like, I'm nodding and smiling along.

Will Spencer:

And I remembered at the start of that interaction, he had showed me a card, and I was like, okay, that's your id.

Will Spencer:

And I remembered later, like, oh, he was probably showing me his communist party membership card.

Jay Stang:

He's a carrying member of the Communist Party of China.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

And that man walked around that room in China differently than I'd ever seen any other chinese person walk around.

Will Spencer:

It's a total two tier society.

Will Spencer:

But then also there's the issue of communal property.

Will Spencer:

Like, if you say, I want to raise my daughter and my sons a certain way, right?

Will Spencer:

Not in a sense of property, but because they are my children, the communist mindset would say, no, we get to raise your children with the values.

Will Spencer:

Then you wanting to raise them on your own, in a sense, is the extremist position.

Will Spencer:

Instead, you have to adopt all the positions of the party, of the people.

Will Spencer:

Right?

Will Spencer:

And that's pure communism.

Jay Stang:

Well, America has been a communist country for at least 100 years, though, will.

Will Spencer:

100 years?

Will Spencer:

I would have been lower.

Will Spencer:

Okay, let's go.

Jay Stang:

America's been a communist country for at least a century.

Jay Stang:

If you read the Marx's communist manifesto and you read the ten planks of communism, you have every element of communism that's been present, and it's been present so long that those ten planks of communism, from the mouth of the man himself, Karl Marx, are avidly defended by Americans, conservative Americans, patriotic Christians.

Jay Stang:

The latest.

Jay Stang:

Trump says, we need to get rid of the income tax and fund the country with tariffs.

Jay Stang:

The libertarians go nuts, right?

Jay Stang:

Everybody says, how dare you get rid of taxes.

Jay Stang:

Tariffs, okay, read the constitution.

Jay Stang:

There was no direct income tax, and the federal government was founded by tariffs, imposts, excise taxes and duties.

Jay Stang:

So for all your never Trumpers or people backing on Trump for being whatever, Trump is more of a constitutionalist than all of them are, because literally what he's saying is we have to go back to the constitution.

Jay Stang:

We have to fund the federal government.

Jay Stang:

Implying explicitly that the federal government would have to shrink without taxes, even though we know taxes are an inflationary curve, not actually funding the government.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But what he's proposing is a return to the constitution.

Jay Stang:

So if you think that's a bad idea and you call yourself pro constitution, you're actually not.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

This is the way communism is in everyone's.

Will Spencer:

It's in everyone's bloodstream.

Jay Stang:

It's absolute subversion.

Jay Stang:

I remember in:

Will Spencer:

Conserving what?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But it's been, she's been brainwashed.

Jay Stang:

Every, almost everybody is to say, no, you, you paying your fair share of taxes and being mad at people who don't pay any taxes because they're following the tax code.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

It's a playbook, and you play by the rules.

Jay Stang:

I don't think the government is charging me enough taxes.

Jay Stang:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

Send them more money.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

The federal government should be raising tax rate because they're not paying, because I'm not paying enough tax and I'm a multimillionaire.

Jay Stang:

Or tax the rich.

Jay Stang:

Well, who founds companies and who generates jobs?

Jay Stang:

Rich people do, with money.

Jay Stang:

So if you take all their money, they can't give you a job.

Will Spencer:

Well, instead, we have a system that's animated by envy.

Will Spencer:

If everything is supposed to be redistributed for us and someone has more, then we have a right to envy them.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

You take the hot, you have people with money, and you take all the money away and you give the money to people that don't have it.

Jay Stang:

Then everybody's just one big featureless mass of bugs, right?

Jay Stang:

It's just 1 gy featureless mass devoid of anything remarkable.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

If everybody lives in the same house and drives the same car, wears the same clothes, and eats the same mashed potatoes for.

Jay Stang:

I love mashed potatoes.

Jay Stang:

But if you eat the same thing every day, then life becomes boring.

Jay Stang:

It becomes devoid of any joy or happiness or potential because it's all predetermined.

Jay Stang:

You can't do anything more.

Jay Stang:

You can't rise above where you are.

Jay Stang:

You're stuck where you are, and that's where you can read the rest of your life.

Jay Stang:

If that is attractive to you, then we have nothing in common.

Will Spencer:

And you can see the feminizing impulse in that instinct.

Will Spencer:

We don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

Jay Stang:

There's no risk in that lifestyle because there's no danger of being apart from the crowd or being exposed or out there.

Jay Stang:

You're right in the middle, right in the center of the herd.

Jay Stang:

You're safe.

Jay Stang:

Nothing can get to you because there are all these other people around you.

Jay Stang:

It's a very feminine way to live.

Jay Stang:

And again, I love women, obviously.

Jay Stang:

I've been married for 17 or 18 years.

Jay Stang:

I have multiple children, but I'm nothing, a woman.

Jay Stang:

And you have to recognize as men that the feminine way of viewing the world is not the one that's going to make it successful.

Jay Stang:

Every matriarchal society lives in a grass hut.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Well, in fact, from my travels, I've seen that most societies around the world are actually matriarchal, though they may appear to be patriarchal on the outside.

Will Spencer:

Actually, the home is run by a dragon lady.

Will Spencer:

Essentially, the culture is actually matriarchal, and they go nowhere while taking quite a lot of american and western culture, which is, we might say, cosmically patriarchal, as in the actual, like, God the father male.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And there's a reason behind that.

Jay Stang:

But using the word cosmically makes me remember the picture of the lady holding the sign, billions for space, none for the hungry.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

What is this stupid toy?

Jay Stang:

All you boys in your toys, you're just wasting money on this space garbage when there are hungry children here.

Jay Stang:

And we could have been on the moon and Mars if it wasn't for that.

Jay Stang:

NASA said, oh, they're hungry children.

Jay Stang:

We have to feed the children instead of reaching for the stars.

Jay Stang:

Reaching for the stars.

Jay Stang:

And all the technology that comes with the space program and all the side benefits and the.

Jay Stang:

The winds and everything we get from reaching for the stars, they all are derivative down to make life on Earth better for everybody.

Jay Stang:

All the technologies we had to invent to get to into space is where we get satellites and telecommunications and the Internet.

Jay Stang:

And all of these things that we take for granted are from the space program or associated with the execution of the space program.

Jay Stang:

That's what Elon Musk is doing with SpaceX.

Jay Stang:

That is essential.

Jay Stang:

We have to get to the stars.

Jay Stang:

We were not made to be on this planet, the frontier.

Jay Stang:

There's nowhere else to explore on the planet Earth.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

There's only one destination for the masculine values of exploration and risk and colonization and exploration in that space.

Jay Stang:

So saying, oh, no, you can't do all this stupid, you know, tinker toy stuff because they're hungry.

Jay Stang:

The poor will always be with us.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

We will never get rid of the poor.

Jay Stang:

We have to reach for the stars because we have to see what is out there.

Jay Stang:

If God created it, we need to go to what he's created because we can see the billions of stars, but we can't appreciate them in their full value and majesty unless we're in the middle of it.

Will Spencer:

Go ahead.

Will Spencer:

Sorry.

Jay Stang:

I'm just saying that space, to me, is vitally important because it's created for our benefit.

Jay Stang:

And if it's created and we are made in the image of God, we need to be there among the stars.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And where does the idea come from in the first place?

Will Spencer:

That there needs to be some centralizing authority that confiscates wealth and redistributes it along the lines that either men or women think it should be distributed along.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

I don't think that the government should be taking my money for a space program either.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Like, I had to support it with my, with my income, if I so choose to, and so can you, woman, you can convince your husband to support the hungry, and maybe we can all do this instead of having to fight over the priorities of a government that has power it shouldn't have in the first place.

Jay Stang:

The commercial aviation industry was not the government aviation industry.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

We didn't get f.

Jay Stang:

Government didn't make f 16s.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Private industry did.

Jay Stang:

So you see, NASA deliberately decided to turn away from the stars effectively, but private industry is now actually doing it.

Jay Stang:

And in the time that SpaceX has been operating, it's been much more effective and has accomplished much more technologically than NASA did for the amount of time they were at it.

Jay Stang:

The space program in the fifties and sixties was able to do a lot, but then inertia took over and bureaucracy took over, and the people pushing it left.

Jay Stang:

The fate of all government programs took over.

Jay Stang:

But then that vacuum was filled by the commercial space flight industry.

Jay Stang:

So I think you're going to continue to see amazing things happen from the commercial spaceflight industry, especially.

Jay Stang:

We get out to the asteroids where there are minerals and resources and valuable substances out there getting on the moon.

Jay Stang:

And then once you're on the moon, then it's much easier to go anywhere else because you're not finding the gravity of Earth to get out into space.

Will Spencer:

And all the benefits, as you said, of allowing the private industry to handle these things if you can tolerate the fact that some people are going to build wealth.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And I think that's the intolerable thing.

Will Spencer:

It's not so much that, you know, to the feminized, liberalized mind, it's not so much that they're opposed to any of these endeavors as such, but the notion that private industry is handling it means that people are going to make a lot of money, and it's men who are going to make a lot of money.

Will Spencer:

And you may not like the men, you may not like their values, but they're going to make a lot of money.

Will Spencer:

That's exactly right.

Will Spencer:

Exactly right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

And so did your dad, did he spot all this?

Will Spencer:

I mean, I guess he would have seen all this coming like a long time ago.

Jay Stang:

A lot of it.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

It's impossible to see everything, but you can read pretty much, you can read just about everything he wrote on the Internet.

Jay Stang:

You can find a lot of it.

Jay Stang:

And it's interesting to go back and compare what he wrote back then to what's happening now or anybody that was in the birch society or associated with it.

Jay Stang:

What they wrote back then versus, okay, how did their predictions pan out?

Jay Stang:

Were they right?

Jay Stang:

Were they wrong?

Jay Stang:

Were they able to call, you know, more things correctly than incorrectly?

Jay Stang:

It's interesting to see, you know, how all of that panned out as, as time and events play out.

Will Spencer:

What do you, what did your, what did your dad call, like, what was one of the things that he called?

Jay Stang:

A lot of things about feminism.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, right.

Jay Stang:

Some of the social decay, the movie Anarchy USA.

Jay Stang:

He wrote that with G.

Jay Stang:

Edward Griffin in the fifties.

Will Spencer:

Oh, okay.

Will Spencer:

G.

Will Spencer:

Edward Griffin wrote.

Jay Stang:

So if you watch Anarchy USA, the playbook, so to speak, you can see that being played out would be the, the proto version of the color revolution.

Will Spencer:

Okay, got it.

Will Spencer:

I think I've heard the name Anarchy USA, but I don't know that I've watched it.

Jay Stang:

It's all over YouTube.

Jay Stang:

You can, I think you can find it pretty easily.

Jay Stang:

But it would be the, you know, the ancestor or the proto version of the modern color revolution.

Jay Stang:

That happens in a lot of places.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, I remember.

Will Spencer:

I think you sent me one of your dad's articles about feminism a while back.

Will Spencer:

And when I was looking into that, it was like, yeah, I mean, a lot of these things were apparent to men that were going through it.

Will Spencer:

prior to, like, I don't know,:

Jay Stang:

One of the most radioactive talk was Martin Luther King.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah.

Jay Stang:

Back to that time, you can see many articles written about the communists that he surrounded himself with, right?

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Jay Stang:

Some of his actions and activities which diverged sharply from the man, the myth, the legend, him.

Jay Stang:

So you get a much better picture of him if you go back and read some of the contemporary writings, especially from the Birch society, as opposed to now, where he's like, George Floyd is a saint.

Will Spencer:

I think this past January, the amount of critical examinations of Martin Luther King was significantly higher, including within the christian church.

Will Spencer:

Really?

Will Spencer:

Was he really a christian?

Will Spencer:

He had a bunch of really bad doctrine.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

And that goes hand in hand with people really starting to consider slavery and racism and all the original sins of America.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Yes, they're bad to a certain extent.

Jay Stang:

Have they been weaponized against us?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Have the sins of slavery and racism been weaponized to emotionally manipulate and blackmail America into committing suicide?

Jay Stang:

And they absolutely have.

Jay Stang:

The guilt over both of those, manufactured or not, has been used to push us into all kinds of corners.

Jay Stang:

When slavery and racism are part of human nature, will always be present with us, and will have always been and will always be part of the human experience.

Jay Stang:

Modern day slavery is insanely popular today.

Jay Stang:

And the white man ended slavery.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Instead of being blameful to slavery, the white man ended it in Britain in a lot of places.

Will Spencer:

At the great expense, like, in terms of treasure and blood, as opposed to other 600,000 Americans.

Jay Stang:

Died between:

Jay Stang:

Where I think I read recently that only 1.6% of the population of the southern.

Jay Stang:

Of the Confederate States of America own slaves.

Jay Stang:

So it was 98.4% of the southern United States didn't own slaves.

Jay Stang:

So you're being punished for the actions of 1.6% of Americans in the south.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

We know racism that we get blamed for all the time.

Jay Stang:

If you go to Japan, it's very racist.

Jay Stang:

If you go to Africa, it's very racist.

Jay Stang:

If you go anywhere, it's incredibly racist.

Jay Stang:

But white people are not allowed to be racist.

Jay Stang:

So those emotional levers have been weaponized to lever us into all kinds of stuff that is much to our detriment, to the absolute destruction of our society and country and history and identity.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah.

Will Spencer:

My travels overseas revealed, like, racism that people in America would not believe.

Will Spencer:

You want to hear real racism?

Will Spencer:

Ask a mainland chinese person about the japanese, or vice versa.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

You'll get an earful.

Will Spencer:

Ask an Ecuadorian about an argentinian or ask an Argentinian about a Colombian or a Mongolian about a Russian.

Will Spencer:

Like, you'll hear real hatred, you know, for.

Will Spencer:

Versus, like, a microaggression.

Will Spencer:

Like, oh, where are you from?

Jay Stang:

Yeah, go to Mexico and call someone puerto rican, you get shot in the face.

Will Spencer:

Yes, yes.

Will Spencer:

And it's not casual.

Will Spencer:

Like they mean it.

Will Spencer:

You know what I mean?

Will Spencer:

It's like a football rivalry, though.

Will Spencer:

There's all also that this is the thing, and I'm not suggesting that America needs to go back to being like.

Will Spencer:

Needs to be racist like these countries.

Will Spencer:

That's not what I mean.

Will Spencer:

It's just we have been so hyper sensitized to any slight perception of a slight that we don't actually have a good sense that I put this on Twitter, actually.

Will Spencer:

I think it's probably my most popular tweet of all time.

Will Spencer:

It is not one big brown kumbaya outside of the borders of the United States.

Will Spencer:

It's actually not that.

Jay Stang:

I think I commented on that post and got 500,000 views.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Ridiculous number.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

It was a wild post.

Jay Stang:

I will admit to piggybacking on some of your posts.

Will Spencer:

That's all right, man.

Will Spencer:

I don't jump on.

Will Spencer:

That's the fun, is I was getting messages.

Will Spencer:

When a post blows up, you get more just by being attached to a big post, right?

Jay Stang:

Yeah, I get death threats all the time.

Jay Stang:

Much more.

Jay Stang:

As my follower count grows, I get more message requests with very retarded and idiotic death threats.

Will Spencer:

Do you really?

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah.

Jay Stang:

I don't get.

Will Spencer:

This is not an invitation, but I don't get death threats.

Jay Stang:

They tell me they're going to kill me or slit my throat or rape my mother, but they really go and they really get dirty and they got to attack.

Will Spencer:

I know.

Jay Stang:

Why is that such.

Jay Stang:

Why do they think that is such a burn?

Jay Stang:

Like, like, you know, like throwing water in wicked Witch of the west.

Jay Stang:

Oh, no.

Jay Stang:

You discovered my secret.

Will Spencer:

It's so over.

Will Spencer:

You made a comment about my physical appearance.

Will Spencer:

Oh, no.

Jay Stang:

I've heard every kind of hair joke that you can think of, and I don't understand why that's so important.

Will Spencer:

I don't know.

Will Spencer:

Because they can't think of anything creative to say.

Jay Stang:

That's the only thing that comes to mind.

Jay Stang:

But I get that a lot.

Jay Stang:

Whenever, if I get a lot of views on something, I'll get DM's with death threats in them, and it's always someone who can never back it up in real life.

Jay Stang:

If you were standing in front of me right now, there's no chance you would even dare say to my face what you tell me in my Twitter message requests.

Will Spencer:

Of course not.

Will Spencer:

I don't actually get death threats or negative.

Will Spencer:

I will get negative comments on some posts, but I don't know if that means I'm doing something right or I'm doing something wrong.

Jay Stang:

I think you're just not serious about all this.

Jay Stang:

When are you going to get serious about this kind of posting will, I don't think you have it in you to really get serious.

Will Spencer:

I think you're probably right.

Will Spencer:

I just don't have it.

Jay Stang:

You're supposed to prove me wrong.

Will Spencer:

Now I'm gonna.

Will Spencer:

Oh, you're right.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah.

Will Spencer:

It's so over.

Jay Stang:

Come on.

Jay Stang:

Come on.

Jay Stang:

Get with it.

Jay Stang:

Come on.

Will Spencer:

All right, all right.

Will Spencer:

I'll do better.

Will Spencer:

I will do better.

Will Spencer:

I'm gonna start.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

Be better.

Jay Stang:

Be better.

Will Spencer:

Be better.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

So, okay, so we'll go.

Will Spencer:

We'll go right into it.

Will Spencer:

Let's talk about Nala.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Oh, man, I've forgotten.

Jay Stang:

We don't.

Will Spencer:

I know, I know.

Will Spencer:

It's sort of like raising it from the grave.

Will Spencer:

We don't talk about her, per se, but you know the general, because you and I exchanged a lot of DM's about this.

Will Spencer:

About the general.

Will Spencer:

The general vibe of a lot of female content creators can quote unquote conservative that go to bat for feminism or feminist planks, whether or not they know they are.

Will Spencer:

That's a lot of fun to provoke.

Jay Stang:

It is.

Jay Stang:

Because it's very easy to do.

Jay Stang:

One of the things in particular I saw about that situation in general is nobody really even knows her real name.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Nobody knows actually who she is.

Jay Stang:

Everybody knows her.

Jay Stang:

Bye.

Jay Stang:

Her stage name.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

And it's not about her.

Jay Stang:

Whether she's legitimate or not, whether she's sincere or not.

Jay Stang:

It's much more simple than that, is that people are so desperate for something like this to happen that they will throw all common sense to the wind and not wait and see and not let the fruit bear witness.

Jay Stang:

Well, let's wait and see what happens.

Jay Stang:

Let's not jump to conclusions.

Jay Stang:

Let's give her some time.

Jay Stang:

Or, hey, if you just converted to Christianity and you're sincere, you don't need to be jumping on social media and jumping them down and yelling, because all that does is divide people into camps.

Jay Stang:

Is she for real?

Jay Stang:

Is she not for real?

Jay Stang:

And all the yelling that goes back and forth between the two camps because she's chopped you in half without any effort at all.

Jay Stang:

Because if she's out there on social media immediately, then you have to take a position, right?

Jay Stang:

And if you're a meanie head and you say, no, she's not real, how dare you?

Jay Stang:

You're not a real Christian.

Jay Stang:

How could you be driving away new believers like, whoa, you don't even know if she's legit or not.

Jay Stang:

She could very well be.

Jay Stang:

Or she could not be, but we don't know and there's no way to know except with time.

Jay Stang:

And people say, well, what would you do with the apostle Paul?

Jay Stang:

Okay, he disappeared for three years, and nobody trusted him either.

Jay Stang:

He had to prove himself.

Jay Stang:

He had to prove his legitimacy before anybody took him seriously.

Jay Stang:

Because if you read the New Testament, you may lose perspective of the time when he is struck down on the road to Damascus.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And all of a sudden he's writing epistles and preaching in acts you can lose perspective on.

Jay Stang:

Did that happen right away, or did time pass in between his conversion and when he started preaching and writing epistles and the journeys of the apostle Paul?

Jay Stang:

So there were years that passed between when he was struck down on the road to Damascus and when he became who he was for the rest of his life.

Jay Stang:

But it's really just prudence and not jumping to conclusions.

Jay Stang:

That was, what I saw was lacking, is just be patient, let this play out organically.

Jay Stang:

Because another thing that all this, the constant back and forth was, you're warping it.

Jay Stang:

So it can't develop on its own.

Jay Stang:

It can't develop organically or legitimately.

Jay Stang:

So it's warped and it's damaged permanently no matter what happens.

Jay Stang:

She hasn't been allowed to be who she's supposed to be if she's for real.

Jay Stang:

I think it just can't.

Jay Stang:

It can't develop naturally.

Will Spencer:

And I think the, not that you mean to do this, but I did a post about this that I think the comparison of her with the apostle Paul, and again, I don't mean you, is a false comparison.

Jay Stang:

I use that only because that was a very common analogy people were using.

Will Spencer:

Yes, exactly.

Will Spencer:

And I pushed back on that because I said, well, and this is the long post I wrote about it that was quite controversial because I used a photo of her in a rather depraved kind of way of being.

Will Spencer:

Again, she was a digital prostitute who made $9 million.

Will Spencer:

And so that's a significant.

Will Spencer:

And she was none of which, as far as I know, she hasn't donated any of it.

Will Spencer:

I don't know what she's up to right now.

Will Spencer:

But the point that I was making is like, no, she's not meant to be the apostle Paul.

Will Spencer:

If she ends up being like an Elizabeth Elliot, like someone like that, praise God and hallelujah.

Will Spencer:

But to compare.

Will Spencer:

But that's who you should be comparing her with.

Will Spencer:

And so when you take a woman like Nala and you compare her with Elizabeth Elliot, she literally could not be further away.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And she will not have the time to develop into that as long as you're constantly papering over her past and saying that she's redeemed of all that.

Will Spencer:

No, she has to experience the extreme, we might say soul pain of what she put herself into by sinning against her own body.

Will Spencer:

And so if you're just like, well, she's washed clean of the blood, she's good to go.

Will Spencer:

Nothing needed to do here.

Will Spencer:

It's like you're depriving her of the opportunity to grow into someone who can actually lead in your rush to protect her.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Stang:

There's a natural process that has to happen.

Jay Stang:

And if you jump in and everybody sticks their hands in the pot and starts stirring it, you'll never get the cake, won't bake properly.

Jay Stang:

Sure, sure.

Jay Stang:

I see that as insanely damaging to what she would need to experience in order to be legitimately a legitimate Christian.

Jay Stang:

But then also the criticism that in the past, women like that would maybe join a convent or a religious order and not be because the spotlight, whatever the reason, is the attention.

Jay Stang:

And we know that social media breeds the attention of the dopamine hit addiction.

Jay Stang:

And whatever the reason for the attention, it's still the attention that's there in huge amounts.

Jay Stang:

And so she goes from doing the onlyfans and getting a lot of attention and money to now being the new convert on social media, everybody congratulating her and praising her.

Jay Stang:

And so she's still getting the attention and she's not able to come down off of that, that stimulation.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

And just to an equilibrium.

Jay Stang:

It's this constant high and you can't, you know, you gotta give it up.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

You gotta lower your, just come back down to earth.

Jay Stang:

And nobody was letting her do that.

Jay Stang:

And so I think that was very damaging to whatever she was going through because she wasn't allowed to be, you know, try to get back to being a normal person.

Jay Stang:

She's just on this constant high, just in a different, for a different reason.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

And I think that's the, and we've talked about this.

Will Spencer:

Like, that's the rush to defend her is that there are all these sort of female conservative, again, female conservative, right commentators that were rushing to Nala's defense.

Will Spencer:

And that was really revealing because it's like, okay, let's ask the hard question.

Will Spencer:

Like if you becoming a Christian and being a faithful wife and mother meant that you had to hang up your social media account with your tens of thousands of followers, would you do it?

Will Spencer:

I mean, the answer to that should be yes.

Jay Stang:

That's a tough question, and nobody wanted to even see that question being asked, let alone have the answer come up.

Jay Stang:

But I think it also illuminated an aspect of the female psyche where women will necessarily put themselves in the middle of it.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And then they'll say, oh, and I don't think men do this as much or at all, I'm not sure.

Jay Stang:

But women putting themselves in the middle of it would say, well, what if I did that?

Jay Stang:

And then it's harder for them to judge because they're more likely from the aspect of empathy to empathize without even realizing it.

Jay Stang:

And then it's harder for them to have a clearer judgment because they.

Jay Stang:

The solipsism, they put themselves in the middle of it, and then it's hard to get the necessary perspective.

Jay Stang:

You have to have.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

I did a podcast episode that should be out, possibly on substack when this interview comes out with Joe Rigney, who wrote a book called leadership and emotional sabotage, where he talks, he's become quite infamous in the right way for talking about untethered empathy.

Will Spencer:

This idea that we should just empathize with all people in all circumstances and shouldn't hold them to any amount of account out of this weaponized empathy.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah, because he was the one that caused a lot of uproar about the medusa thing.

Will Spencer:

Yes, yes, exactly.

Will Spencer:

And, you know, he, as I talked about in my interview with him, he put his finger on something that I lived in for a long time.

Will Spencer:

That's how I, like, we talked.

Will Spencer:

We started out talking about San Francisco and how unsafe it's become.

Will Spencer:

That weaponized empathy is how business gets done.

Will Spencer:

Or it did.

Will Spencer:

I mean, it can't be any better.

Will Spencer:

Now, this idea that men and women can be manipulated with their feelings, with their sympathies, in order to enable horrors that your father or your grandfather, or my grandfather, for that matter, would be shocked by, it'd be dystopian.

Will Spencer:

How did we get here?

Jay Stang:

It's.

Jay Stang:

That playbook is over and over again.

Jay Stang:

Remember the picture of the little boy, the body of little boy on the beach in Turkey?

Jay Stang:

That was a huge.

Jay Stang:

It just tore the doors off of any remaining barriers to flooding Europe with just the rampant immigration.

Jay Stang:

So there's a picture of a little boy lying face down on the beach.

Jay Stang:

And every.

Jay Stang:

I think you and I talked about this when it happens.

Jay Stang:

A few years ago, every woman, every mother alive just came apart at the scenes because every mother could see her little boy dead, lying face down on the beach.

Jay Stang:

And just like an emotional nuclear weapon detonating inside the heart of every mother on the planet.

Jay Stang:

The picture in its some of the most powerful emotional blackmail you can think of.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Because it attacks the maternal instinct as the vector.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

And the backstory is that the whole reason that little boy died, and he actually did die, was because the dad chartered a speedboat and packed his wife and his six kids in the speedboat and tried to get to Europe.

Jay Stang:

And he was the only one wearing a life jacket.

Will Spencer:

Oh, dear.

Jay Stang:

And the boat flipped over and his wife and all of his kids died.

Jay Stang:

And the picture was of the littlest, cutest one, the little four year old kid.

Jay Stang:

And that they weaponized that story to flip it and just remove any remaining obstacles to Europe being flooded, camp of the saints style.

Jay Stang:

But no one was able to pick themselves up out of that emotional frame and realize what we're getting played.

Jay Stang:

Were getting suckered here, right?

Jay Stang:

Because after that, dad, after that happened, he would just go back and forth and he would vacation in Europe and then go back home to Turkey.

Will Spencer:

So the real story after his family died.

Jay Stang:

Oh, yeah, it was insane.

Jay Stang:

You couldn't get a bunch of more life jackets for your wife and your kids.

Jay Stang:

There was the negligence.

Jay Stang:

He's really a human trafficker.

Jay Stang:

He's a smuggler.

Jay Stang:

That's really what he was.

Jay Stang:

And through his own negligence, he allowed his whole family to drown.

Jay Stang:

He didn't because he's wearing a life jacket.

Jay Stang:

But they used that picture to just completely rape emotionally, everybody.

Jay Stang:

And Merkel used that and everything.

Jay Stang:

And then the horrors that you mentioned, you can see them on the news all the time, you know, priests being beheaded, women being, you know, dismembered and eaten, children being chopped apart.

Jay Stang:

Any kind of horror you can think of.

Jay Stang:

A guy raped and murdered his own mother recently.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

So that picture was used to crack open the door and let all of those things into Europe.

Jay Stang:

I don't mean people as things, but those events, those things happen, the evil.

Will Spencer:

So I want to actually look this up and see if I could find, I don't know if I can picture it.

Will Spencer:

Boy on turkish beach, maybe.

Jay Stang:

Little turkish boy, I think.

Will Spencer:

Little turkish boy.

Jay Stang:

Dad on beach.

Will Spencer:

Boy on beach.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah.

Will Spencer:

With a guy carrying it.

Will Spencer:

Shocking image of drowned syrian boy.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

I think that's probably it.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Will Spencer:

And it's like a man in a hat carrying it.

Will Spencer:

Let me see if I can pull it up.

Will Spencer:

Oh, I don't need to be full.

Will Spencer:

I don't need to be full screen.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Will Spencer:

Let me do a screen share real quick and see if I can get this to work, because I've done this before.

Will Spencer:

Let's see.

Will Spencer:

Screen.

Will Spencer:

This one.

Will Spencer:

So, yeah, so here's the screen.

Will Spencer:

And.

Jay Stang:

Right, that's.

Jay Stang:

That's the picture of the little boy.

Jay Stang:

So every mother alive could imagine her little precious little baby son dead on a beach like that.

Jay Stang:

So you can imagine that that was just.

Will Spencer:

Yep.

Jay Stang:

You know.

Will Spencer:

Oh, okay, I see it.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

And that's the problem is they go for the women, because every mom could imagine her little boy in that.

Jay Stang:

On that beach, dead.

Will Spencer:

Yep.

Will Spencer:

Yep.

Will Spencer:

I mean, it's a heartbreaking image.

Will Spencer:

Like, it tugs at the heart, straight heart springs of.

Will Spencer:

It's horrifying.

Will Spencer:

Your father, like, obviously, like, it's not to say that it doesn't impact you.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, yeah.

Will Spencer:

We live in an incredibly fallen world, and a photograph of someone suffering of a young boy dying or dead isn't what you make public policy around.

Jay Stang:

Unless you have an alternative motive, unless you're up to something.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

I mean, I think of the african boy in the eighties that.

Will Spencer:

With starving, with the vulture there and what that was used for.

Will Spencer:

I mean there's.

Will Spencer:

And then the.

Will Spencer:

Was it.

Will Spencer:

There was a.

Will Spencer:

Was it the syrian war boy with like where he was in the, in the ambulance with bandaged up and stuff like that.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

So the Ethiopian, the picture of Ethiopia in the eighties, you and I are close to the same age, remember?

Jay Stang:

Just the live aid, the farm aid.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

You know, we are the world.

Jay Stang:

You know, Saturday Night Live made, you know, made hay, making fun of that, that kind of concert.

Will Spencer:

Right, that's right.

Jay Stang:

But if you think about what happened, that picture killed millions of people.

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah.

Will Spencer:

I'll pull it up right now so we can see it.

Jay Stang:

That picture was responsible for millions of people dying.

Jay Stang:

Because what it did was it had the same kind of emotional blackmail and it got everybody to start donating.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, exactly.

Jay Stang:

Donating food and everything to Africa.

Jay Stang:

The food either goes into the hands of warlords who then sell it for money so it doesn't get to starving kids, or it creates a population bubble where the food enables the growth of a population.

Jay Stang:

And then the problem is you have to keep supplying more food or else the people that exist now because there's that extra food will die.

Jay Stang:

So you're backing yourself more and more into a corner, and eventually it's unsustainable.

Jay Stang:

And then when that pops, then a lot more people would die than if population could be sustained at its natural levels.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I remember how much policy around Africa was formed in my childhood.

Will Spencer:

Probably as a result of that photo or the ideas behind the photo.

Will Spencer:

And I remember also that the photographer, like, killed himself after taking that photo.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Will Spencer:

And I remember, like, you know, eat all your food because there are kids starving in Africa.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, right.

Will Spencer:

Like, where did that idea come from?

Jay Stang:

That's in.

Jay Stang:

Eat it.

Jay Stang:

Where the hell, right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Stang:

Cause they're starving.

Jay Stang:

You know, your kids are starving in Japan, you know.

Jay Stang:

Yes, that's obviously not the case, but.

Jay Stang:

Joke.

Jay Stang:

But.

Jay Stang:

And then.

Jay Stang:

But that all goes back to feminism.

Jay Stang:

Because it wouldn't matter if women couldn't vote.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Or it would matter less.

Jay Stang:

It would matter a lot less if women couldn't vote.

Jay Stang:

And that goes back to feminism.

Jay Stang:

So the comparison has been made that feminism is much more destructive to a country than even soviet communism is.

Will Spencer:

Oh, sure.

Jay Stang:

Because the countries of Eastern Europe and Russia still have their national character and culture and identity and religion.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Even after 70, 80 years of communism.

Jay Stang:

But, yeah, more or less has utterly destroyed any culture, country, or nation it touches.

Jay Stang:

South Korea's the latest example.

Jay Stang:

Their birth rate is 0.55 children.

Jay Stang:

So out of every two women, only one is going to have a kid.

Will Spencer:

Wow.

Will Spencer:

Unreal feminism.

Jay Stang:

Go to college, get jobs, get careers.

Jay Stang:

You don't need a Mandev.

Jay Stang:

I was reading an article someone posted on Twitter about this, and then we can't find a man that will satisfy us.

Jay Stang:

A lot of biblical undertones to that.

Will Spencer:

Of course.

Jay Stang:

Feminism just destroys, utterly destroys any culture, nation, or society it touches.

Will Spencer:

So I've got a book back here.

Will Spencer:

It's on my shelf.

Will Spencer:

Libido dominandi from me, Michael Jones.

Will Spencer:

I reference it all the time.

Will Spencer:

Time.

Will Spencer:

And he wrote it in late nineties.

Will Spencer:

I guess there's a new version of it coming out.

Will Spencer:

But he talks about a woman named Maria Kollontai.

Will Spencer:

Kollontai.

Will Spencer:

And she was a feminist inside communist Russia and was pushing for, like, abortion and stuff like that.

Will Spencer:

And the communists discovered in the first half of the 20th century what a terrible idea that was.

Will Spencer:

Like, they crashed the birth rates of their working population, so they shipped her to America, and guess what?

Will Spencer:

She brought communism over here.

Will Spencer:

Thanks.

Will Spencer:

Russia.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

In the early years of the Soviet Union, they removed all of the moral prohibitions on everything.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

And everything just immediately disintegrated.

Jay Stang:

And they said, oh, crap, we need to get those rules back in place.

Jay Stang:

So then, unwittingly, you had a very patriarchal, well ordered society.

Jay Stang:

You had a patriarchy inside Soviet Russia or the Soviet Union.

Jay Stang:

And that's why they're still here.

Jay Stang:

Today because I don't think they had no fault.

Jay Stang:

Divorce and abortion and all that, because they were like, oh, we're not going to destroy our own society.

Jay Stang:

We need to export these fantastic weapons to the west.

Jay Stang:

And the long march through the institution, Gramsci will let these weapons destroy the west because that's the only way to defeat the west.

Jay Stang:

We can't defeat them head on.

Jay Stang:

We have to erode the pillars of society.

Will Spencer:

What's so funny is, compared with Russia, the way that patriarchy gets slandered today is the Nazis.

Will Spencer:

Germany had a patriarchal culture as well, and it's that singular image that's used to slander all kinds of men, particularly white men, about the fatherland.

Will Spencer:

Exactly, exactly.

Will Spencer:

But it's not to say that Russia was Russia's Russia's art, communist Russia's art was extraordinarily patriarchal.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Like, that's how it was.

Will Spencer:

And yet it's this one image that we're not allowed to, that we're not allowed to look at.

Will Spencer:

That's a whole other conversation.

Will Spencer:

But, like, that's in the same way that slavery is used to slander the west.

Will Spencer:

You know, Nazi Germany is used to slander the west, but somehow not Russia, which doesn't make sense.

Will Spencer:

The west defeated Nazi Germany.

Jay Stang:

Will.

Jay Stang:

Are you referring to the National Socialist German Workers party?

Will Spencer:

Yes, I am.

Will Spencer:

Yes, I know the term Nazi is a thing.

Jay Stang:

The famous right wing National Socialist Workers party.

Will Spencer:

Yes, yes.

Will Spencer:

Classically.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Stang:

There's a misgendered, horribly misgendered.

Jay Stang:

There's a really great picture on the historical side of the antifa building in Germany.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Because the nationalist socialists and the communists were fighting each other in the streets.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Antifa, antifascist.

Jay Stang:

The communists called the Nazis fascists, and so they call Nazis fascists today.

Jay Stang:

They won't call them national socialists.

Jay Stang:

They call them fascists because they don't want to give the game away.

Jay Stang:

But Antifa, Auntie Harry, if you look at a picture of their headquarters, they had hammer and sickles all over the place.

Jay Stang:

They had talking about communism on their party headquarters, their big conventions, hammer and sickles and soviet communist imagery all over it and slogans and communism all over the place.

Jay Stang:

So there weren't any good guys.

Jay Stang:

As Americans, we want to assign a good guy to every situation.

Jay Stang:

There were no good guys.

Jay Stang:

There's two different kinds of bad guys fighting each other, the National Socialists and the communists.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

That's so difficult for a lot of people to understand because.

Will Spencer:

And I'll be doing more episodes about this, people discover that, like, okay, Russia was absolutely not the good guy of world War two.

Will Spencer:

And America wasn't really the good guys either.

Will Spencer:

Right?

Will Spencer:

They were their challenges.

Jay Stang:

World War two is the.

Jay Stang:

The founding myth of the modern United States of America.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

Amen.

Will Spencer:

Amen.

Will Spencer:

And people go, look, they hear that America is this great world liberator.

Will Spencer:

And there was a role we played, but they're so rushed to say, like, america, because the good guys, then they get disillusioned.

Will Spencer:

They say, wait a minute.

Will Spencer:

We were the bad guys all along.

Will Spencer:

The Nazis were the good guys.

Will Spencer:

It's like, no, all the bad guys fought and the bad guys won.

Jay Stang:

It is a facet of american culture to automatically assign good guy, bad guy.

Jay Stang:

Because that's how we think.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Because Star wars.

Jay Stang:

Oh, the rebellion is the good guys, the empire, they're such bad guys.

Jay Stang:

But now, something that happens in movies is the bad guys are cooler.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Because you get to do cool stuff and they have cooler clothes, and they get to chew up the scenes where the good guys are boring because they have a much more limited scope of what they can do in their own moral framework.

Jay Stang:

But the bad guys are the bad guys because there are no limits on what they can do.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So they're cooler and more adventurous and more dangerous, and they're hotter because they don't have any limitations on what they can do to accomplish a goal.

Jay Stang:

They can do whatever they need to do.

Jay Stang:

Good guys are much more restrained because of their ethics or their morals.

Jay Stang:

So they're boring.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

They're boring.

Will Spencer:

They're the nice guys, comparatively.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, exactly.

Will Spencer:

Well, that's the thing, is what makes particularly action movies or comic book movies interesting is the quality of the villain, because you know how Captain America or Batman or Superman are going to behave within limits.

Will Spencer:

Like, sometimes they'll push the limits, but you know what they're going to do.

Will Spencer:

It's the creativity of the villain.

Will Spencer:

Like with the recent Batman series.

Will Spencer:

What's the most popular film?

Will Spencer:

The Dark Knight.

Will Spencer:

Why?

Will Spencer:

Because of the Joker.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Because.

Will Spencer:

Because he's an interesting, compelling vision.

Will Spencer:

Batman's gonna do Batman things.

Will Spencer:

But the Joker was interesting.

Jay Stang:

Well, because he's unpredictable.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

He's not completely mapped out.

Jay Stang:

What do you know exactly what he's gonna do to what you just said?

Jay Stang:

The bad guy is unpredictable.

Jay Stang:

He's not boring.

Jay Stang:

And so that's another appeal to the feminine.

Jay Stang:

You can do anything you want except bore her.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

True.

Jay Stang:

Back to that again.

Jay Stang:

But it's the thing I see that is the worst part of Marvel and Star wars movies, and I've watched a few of them.

Jay Stang:

Thor was cool, whatever.

Jay Stang:

But it's the way that you are corralled into thinking, look at the southern border.

Jay Stang:

It's not an invasion.

Jay Stang:

Why?

Jay Stang:

Because you're not wearing uniforms.

Jay Stang:

They're not wearing gray or white uniforms, right.

Jay Stang:

I'm programmed where I can only recognize something as an invasion if it happens with these specific iconography or imagery.

Jay Stang:

If they're not wearing gray uniforms, like imperial officers or nazi Wehrmacht stormtroopers, I can't recognize that as an invasion, because you get blinkered into only seeing the world in these non overlapping situations where you can only, like, what did you expect?

Jay Stang:

Stormtroopers marching down the street?

Jay Stang:

Or what did you expect?

Jay Stang:

A column of Nazis marching down the street, signing horse to vessel?

Jay Stang:

You are only allowed to think in very narrow lanes of what is what, where.

Jay Stang:

An invasion by people, military age males, coming across a border.

Jay Stang:

Oh, they don't have uniforms and rifles.

Jay Stang:

It's not invasion.

Jay Stang:

Well, maybe the uniforms and rifles are waiting for them in shipping containers coming from China.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And so you mentally handicap or hamstring your opponent, because if you have enough money, you can buy all the movie studios, or you can determine or dictate through the power of the purse what movie studio show you?

Jay Stang:

It's a very well known concept where Hollywood caters to China exclusively because they're the largest market.

Jay Stang:

If you want access to the market, you got to play ball.

Jay Stang:

You make whatever movie you want.

Jay Stang:

But if it can't be shown in China, you and your investors in the studio are all going to take a bath.

Jay Stang:

So the very implicit same way blackrock controls people, right?

Jay Stang:

So if you can have a movie made that pushes your frame, a reality frame is a very important concept.

Jay Stang:

It's a sales concept, salesman use it.

Jay Stang:

But it's really important for everybody to know how frame is used and used against you.

Jay Stang:

But if you can have movies framed to only allow you to think in two very narrow lanes, then you'll miss 80% or 90% of everything going around you, because you can only recognize an invasion if it is led by Darth Vader or Loki or someone similar.

Jay Stang:

You are not allowed to think in these unapproved directions.

Will Spencer:

So we were talking about masculinity being physical power and sort of physical independence and financial independence.

Will Spencer:

There's a cognitive independence, emotionally independent as well.

Will Spencer:

It's like I can't be emotionally manipulated, and I think through these things for myself.

Will Spencer:

All these pieces fit together it's one.

Jay Stang:

Of the most powerful skills you have as a human being in general is pattern recognition.

Jay Stang:

And that:

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Your lying eyes is your brain and your God given ability to think, trying to recognize a pattern.

Jay Stang:

And the party tells you you are not allowed to recognize or notice that pattern.

Jay Stang:

You are only allowed to acknowledge what we tell you.

Jay Stang:

So it is fighting the basic element of human nature, which is pattern recognition.

Jay Stang:

So this is why communism is so destructive, because it's so opposed to human nature.

Jay Stang:

Libertarianism is as well.

Jay Stang:

But that's another topic, right?

Jay Stang:

Piss off, everybody.

Jay Stang:

But it's, let's go.

Jay Stang:

It's opposed to human nature.

Jay Stang:

So yeah, I get into libertarians on Twitter all the time.

Jay Stang:

I see them as no better than communists simply because the libertarian utopia is so opposed to human nature.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

The communes of the 19th century all failed because they were so opposed to human nature.

Jay Stang:

The non aggression principle only works in a society.

Jay Stang:

High iq white males that don't need it anyway.

Jay Stang:

It does not work.

Jay Stang:

Someone, I can't remember who, said it, but someone said on Twitter it was Devin Erickson.

Jay Stang:

He said, you've created a body with no skin, immune system, or way to repel disease and infection.

Will Spencer:

This is the libertarian vision, you mean, right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

The society built on the non aggression principle.

Jay Stang:

Because the non aggression principle is worthless if it only starts at the border of your house.

Jay Stang:

The border has to start at the national border.

Jay Stang:

Because if you don't have a national border, you can be overrun and they can be surrounding your house and you've already lost.

Jay Stang:

Or they can take the levers of the control of your society and you've already lost.

Jay Stang:

It's the destructive atomization, the individual, where only the individual matters and the tribe or the nation don't matter.

Jay Stang:

Those are communist or those are totalitarian impulses.

Jay Stang:

But if you have no immune system, no skin, no border to keep them out, they will take control of your society.

Jay Stang:

There's nothing you do to stop them because you've forbidden yourself from being proactive.

Will Spencer:

Well, all out of an intention.

Will Spencer:

Like, you can't tell me what to do.

Will Spencer:

Like, anyone who tries to tell me what to do is not allowed to.

Will Spencer:

I get to determine for myself.

Will Spencer:

And then that means if I extend that principle to everybody, then everyone gets to do what they want, and it's, and it's chaos, right?

Jay Stang:

If you've been to a libertarian political convention, you'll see exactly what it's like.

Jay Stang:

It is like herding cats.

Will Spencer:

Oh, sure.

Jay Stang:

It's like hurting cats.

Jay Stang:

And also everybody just looks fucking weird.

Jay Stang:

They just look like absolute weirdos.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Then you can look at the Chad versus nerd, or the nerd versus jock five, right?

Jay Stang:

Libertarians are nerds.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

And then all physique, the Chad, you know, chads are the jocks.

Jay Stang:

And the, you know, the dumb jocks, the dumb chads are just muscle bound and that's all they care about.

Jay Stang:

And it's a total inversion from the natural order of noblesse oblige, where the noble and the powerful and the strong protect the weaker.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Because as the price for being noble and strong and being over 6ft tall and making six figures a year.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

The price for being that man is protecting the weaker.

Jay Stang:

Women and children.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

I mean, this is an idea that people aren't familiar with, this idea of noblesse oblige, which is the idea that if you have a higher station that comes with responsibility.

Will Spencer:

But now, since everyone's been leveled, have.

Jay Stang:

You seen Mary Poppins?

Will Spencer:

A long time ago.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

It's in the opening number that Mister bank sings.

Will Spencer:

Okay, it's been a minute.

Jay Stang:

You might have no bless oblige, right?

Jay Stang:

Yep.

Jay Stang:

When he's talking about he's the king of his castle, he's that opening song, right?

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah, right.

Jay Stang:

I can't remember how it goes, but he's singing about how he is the king of his castle, King Edward's on the throne and is the age of Mendez.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

n that song where he says, at:

Jay Stang:

At:

Jay Stang:

Very.

Jay Stang:

The punctual britishness, right.

Jay Stang:

And then the heirs to my dominion are adequately fed, rubbed and tubbed and ready for bed.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But he mentions noblesse oblige because he's the king.

Jay Stang:

So he has a responsibility to care for the people in his kingdom, which are his children, Jane and Michael and his.

Jay Stang:

His wife and everybody in there.

Jay Stang:

So he says the words noblesse oblige.

Jay Stang:

That's the philosophical basis for what he does is because it's the obligation of the noble.

Jay Stang:

That's something I'm hearing from my dad all the time as well.

Will Spencer:

Well, yeah.

Will Spencer:

I mean, that's the only way that the system holds together.

Will Spencer:

Because if you don't have a sense of noblesse oblige, like the idea that there are responsibilities that come with an elevated station, then it just becomes predatory ultimately, right.

Jay Stang:

Because the people with the strength and the money and the ability to do things are the only people that can protect and change things for the better.

Jay Stang:

They're the only people that can protect the women and children who can't protect themselves.

Jay Stang:

They're the only people who can conserve and maintain the order and the security of a state, a nation, a town, a county, a state, a household.

Jay Stang:

They are the only ones who can, because you have the muscles and you have the guns and the power and the influence and all of those masculine side benefits.

Jay Stang:

You're the only one that can do it.

Jay Stang:

If you don't decide to do it, then everybody else is at the mercy of anybody on the outside who decides that they're going to take what you have.

Jay Stang:

And so in that context, if you look at, you say, oh, it's terrible, women are property.

Jay Stang:

Well, the rapist or the murderer or the invader looks at your women as property that he wants to take.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Women are spoils of war, especially the good looking ones.

Jay Stang:

They ride off with the women and rape them and either murder them or they make them bear their children.

Jay Stang:

So you may not think your women are property and you say, that's a bad way to think, but the enemy gets a vote as well.

Jay Stang:

And if he sees your women and your children as property, he's going to steal them from you.

Will Spencer:

And that, I think, is the big thing that America, at least at the moment, doesn't seem able to reckon with the notion that we do have world enemies.

Jay Stang:

Well, it's the ability to entertain a notion without agreeing with it, right?

Will Spencer:

Oh, yeah, of course.

Jay Stang:

It's the did you eat breakfast?

Jay Stang:

Question.

Jay Stang:

It's the breakfast question.

Jay Stang:

I can appreciate that this guy over here sees my wife as something to take, a trophy, a spoil of war.

Jay Stang:

And I can appreciate that he would see things that way while not agree with him.

Jay Stang:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

That's how he sees it.

Jay Stang:

But I don't agree with him, but I'm not going to let him act upon his perception of the world.

Will Spencer:

I really appreciate you highlighting that because it's a skill that not enough people have today.

Will Spencer:

This idea that you can entertain an idea without accepting it.

Jay Stang:

Well, it comes down to iq, you know.

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

As Steve Saylor says, iq is heritable.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And that's why western civilization is built off of white, christian men with high iqs and why it never appeared anywhere else.

Jay Stang:

I'm sorry if it makes you mad, but that's reality.

Jay Stang:

Why, we were watching the king and I the other day, and the schoolchildren said, where is Siam?

Jay Stang:

And she points to it on the map.

Jay Stang:

That's impossible.

Jay Stang:

How is Siam so small?

Jay Stang:

It's much bigger than that.

Jay Stang:

And she says, but look.

Jay Stang:

And she points to England.

Jay Stang:

A map, a smaller point on the map than Siam was in modern day Thailand.

Jay Stang:

So look, the UK isn't any.

Jay Stang:

Or England isn't any bigger than Siam.

Jay Stang:

England is actually smaller than Siam.

Jay Stang:

So something had to.

Jay Stang:

There had to be some difference.

Jay Stang:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Steve Saylor's made a career of noticing the book he wrote, published, called noticing.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

You can hate the fact that I'm saying it all you want, but it doesn't make it less true.

Jay Stang:

You can hate reality all you want, but it doesn't change anything.

Will Spencer:

And there's been a concerted effort to prevent men from noticing.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

From noticing anything, from even observing their.

Will Spencer:

I noticed that now we have women voting and everything kind of fell apart.

Will Spencer:

Well, you're not allowed to notice that.

Jay Stang:

Immigration, mass immigration, will lower the iq of the host nation.

Jay Stang:

Iq levels in the United States have been dropping slowly and steadily for a long time.

Jay Stang:

And it's because if you have immigrants from a country or a nation or people whose average iq is 50, 60, 70, like Somalia, I'm sorry, but that's going to lower the overall iq of what makes America special is the white christian british brethren that live in it.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And if you flood the country with people from all over the country, all over the world, that uniqueness that would be difficult or impossible to replicate in all of human history will be lost.

Will Spencer:

I was in Ogden, Utah, for the new Christendom conference, which is Eric Kahn and Brian Sauve, and they had Stephen Wolf, who wrote the case for christian nationalism.

Will Spencer:

He gave a talk on, I believe it was Saturday morning.

Will Spencer:

Excellent talk about this very subject about, we are an anglo saxon protestant country.

Will Spencer:

That's who we are.

Will Spencer:

It is okay to say that.

Will Spencer:

We don't have to be.

Will Spencer:

I think you said white people are their own out group.

Will Spencer:

Like you're allowed to identify with anyone else around the world, just not people who look like you.

Will Spencer:

And how preposterous that is.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

And that goes back again to the Jefferson, the declaration, saying, our british brethren.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And then in the preamble to the constitution, Madison, popularly known as the father of constitution, wrote, the constitution is written to secure the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity, our descendants, not as a welcome app for the whole world.

Jay Stang:

And again, it might hurt your feelings if that doesn't include you, but that's the way it is.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

That is reality.

Jay Stang:

And just saying that, saying that radioactively unpopular truth is what you have to be able to do in order to regain your sanity.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

It's only possible to do if you have the physical and mental and moral courage, strength and courage to do it.

Will Spencer:

Amen.

Jay Stang:

And if you can't do it, then you need to take responsibility for yourself and you need to get to the gym and you need to stop drinking soda and you eat red meat.

Jay Stang:

You have to do these things in order to regain your birthright that your ancestors gave you.

Jay Stang:

There is no other way to regain the ability to look yourself in the mirror again.

Will Spencer:

And you are allowed to have it.

Jay Stang:

You have your own self to blame and nobody else.

Jay Stang:

Amen.

Will Spencer:

And you are allowed to, like, I just want to tack that on.

Jay Stang:

Like, no, no, you're not allowed to.

Jay Stang:

You have the responsibility to do that.

Will Spencer:

Amen.

Jay Stang:

Yes.

Jay Stang:

You have the birthright and the responsibility.

Jay Stang:

It is your job to do that because everybody has the right to defend their own nation and their own culture and their own society and their own homeland.

Jay Stang:

Everybody on the planet does, no matter what you look like, what your religion is, every nation has the ability and the right God given right to do it.

Jay Stang:

Americans need to rediscover their own duty and responsibility to do the same thing that everybody else does.

Jay Stang:

Go to Japan.

Jay Stang:

We'll find no shortage of Japanese who are more than willing to do that without even giving it a second thought.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Oh, around the world, people are super proud of their countries and their heritage and their culture and the people that look like them.

Will Spencer:

And they have no problem having affinity bonds with people who look and talk and act exactly like them.

Will Spencer:

It's not even a question, right?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

So the last question that I can hear probably swimming around a lot of people's minds is like, what is it that you do?

Will Spencer:

Who is this man and what does he do for a living?

Will Spencer:

And so I know that you work in oil and gas, but I think this might lend a last little piece because you're not a content creator.

Will Spencer:

You don't have a YouTube channel, you have a popular Twitter account, but you have a life offline and things that you do.

Will Spencer:

So I think men might benefit from hearing about that.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

So by training, I'm a salesman and I worked for many companies.

Jay Stang:

I was a technician in the Marine Corps.

Jay Stang:

Then I got out in:

Jay Stang:

And we sell instrumentation, valves.

Jay Stang:

We sell the pieces and the parts, the pipe, the fittings, everything that goes into plants, refineries, chemical plants, everything in between.

Jay Stang:

And we are technical salesmen.

Jay Stang:

We sell technical solutions that make plants run better, safely, more efficiently, more profitably.

Will Spencer:

And so you get to see in that all the different pieces come together of all the things in your life that in a very real sense have led into.

Will Spencer:

I mean, this is hard technical sales.

Will Spencer:

This is not soft working in marketing.

Will Spencer:

This is oil and gas chemicals.

Will Spencer:

Like hard men doing hard things.

Jay Stang:

This is Wolf of Wall Street, Glengarry Glenn Ross.

Jay Stang:

These are the sharks.

Jay Stang:

I swim among the sharks on a daily basis.

Will Spencer:

It's a rare skill.

Will Spencer:

Yeah, well, this has been fantastic, Jay.

Will Spencer:

It's.

Will Spencer:

I really enjoyed this conversation.

Will Spencer:

This gives people a window into the things that we talk about in Chili's and our DM's.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, I'm sure that we can.

Jay Stang:

Between the two of us, we can cause quite a lot of controversy if we haven't done so already.

Will Spencer:

I'm here for it.

Will Spencer:

More controversy, please.

Will Spencer:

So you have.

Will Spencer:

There's a link on your.

Will Spencer:

We'll talk about your Twitter account in just a second.

Will Spencer:

But there's a link on there.

Will Spencer:

You have a new Gumroad course out.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, I just decided to write something and it's just there are people that comment on it that it's a stupid piece of shit book.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

And it's.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, I make the distinction.

Jay Stang:

This is not war and peace or the great american novel.

Jay Stang:

It's an informal little sales book with a few little observations of mine doing sales over the years.

Jay Stang:

If you buy it and helps you, great.

Jay Stang:

I've sold tens of millions of dollars of equipment to every oil company you can think of.

Jay Stang:

And I don't have a college degree of any kind.

Jay Stang:

I don't even have an actual high school diploma.

Jay Stang:

But people ask me if I'm a chemical engineer or a mechanical or civil electrical mountain.

Jay Stang:

So it's just a lot of my on the job lessons that I've learned over the years.

Jay Stang:

Having some great mentors and being able to pick up and notice things and learn from situations and what other people have done and haven't done.

Jay Stang:

So that's all that ebook is.

Jay Stang:

It's just 20 pages or so of my own observations on the art and craft of sales.

Will Spencer:

Wonderful.

Will Spencer:

Do you want to give people a little window into the oil and gas world?

Will Spencer:

I'd imagine that's probably a black box for a lot of folks.

Jay Stang:

It is, and it's disappointing that it is, because there is no modern world without oil and gas, every electric vehicle is made out of oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

Plastic, steel, batteries, all of those are made either with oil and gas as primary ingredients or getting it out of the ground requires oil and gas to do so.

Jay Stang:

Wind turbines, solar panels, everything green, everything, your clothes, your medicine, your food, all of that is made possible by oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

And as a side note, oil and gas is responsible for saving the entire whale population of the planet.

Jay Stang:

That's right, yeah.

Jay Stang:

Before oil and gas became a product, that's what whaling was for.

Jay Stang:

It was for the oil that whales possessed in large quantities, especially sperm whales in the forehead.

Jay Stang:

The spermaceti was highly prized for burning lamps.

Jay Stang:

hundreds,:

Jay Stang:

So western Pennsylvania is actually the birth of the oil and gas industry, not Texas.

Jay Stang:

And spindle top, as people think.

Jay Stang:

So the oil and gas industry literally saved the whale population because there was a much easier alternative to.

Jay Stang:

To whaling.

Will Spencer:

And that's what Moby Dick is about.

Jay Stang:

Exactly.

Jay Stang:

So, oil and gas makes your kayaks, it makes your clothes, your insulation, your cars.

Jay Stang:

A wind turbine is made out of hundreds of tons of concrete, which is made from oil and gas, and with oil and gas, steel, which is made directly from oil and gas, fiberglass, the lubricants inside the wind turbine.

Jay Stang:

In short, you have no renewable energy, you have no wind turbines, solar panels, anything without oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

Now, if you persist in wanting renewable energy, great.

Jay Stang:

But the people best suited for engineering, constructing, maintaining, and deploying all that renewable energy is the oil and gas industry.

Jay Stang:

So there's nothing.

Jay Stang:

If you want to live with that oil and gas, get out your little house on the prairie dvd's, because that's your standard of living without oil and gas.

Will Spencer:

That's the feminist mindset, right?

Will Spencer:

Short term, risk averse.

Will Spencer:

Oh, we're hurting the planet, the poor earth.

Will Spencer:

It's like, well, you're missing the larger picture.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So, yeah, there's no modern world about oil and gas whatsoever.

Jay Stang:

Anything you think of.

Jay Stang:

There were old commercials in the seventies, oil and gas and you.

Jay Stang:

Oil and gas around your house, and it would make all the things disappear that used oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So those are very common back then, where you can see everything disappeared, if oil and gas disappeared.

Jay Stang:

So there's another really cool component of oil and gas that a lot of christians don't even consider is, you know, you grew up hearing about peak oil running out of oil, and, you know, there are movies like, I think interstellar or avatar had a lot of that?

Jay Stang:

Well, we need this resource, and it's running out.

Jay Stang:

Everything's going to collapse.

Jay Stang:

Well, there are two theories for how oil is made.

Jay Stang:

There's the biotic, which is what we grew up learning.

Jay Stang:

It's decomposed plant matter, biomass, decomposed terms of oil.

Jay Stang:

But then there's the abiotic theory, and that says that oil is a naturally occurring resource in the earth.

Jay Stang:

So if you think about it, what's the more christian perspective?

Jay Stang:

It's the abiotic theory because God made the earth and he made oxygen and he made the environmental conditions we need to be able to live.

Jay Stang:

And then he also provided this magical energy source called oil that can be used in thousands of different things.

Jay Stang:

You can make anything you want with it, and it can make a modern lifestyle completely possible.

Jay Stang:

So it's not made by decaying dinosaurs 40 million years ago.

Jay Stang:

It's made as a natural consequence of heat and pressure deep within the earth, just like diamonds are made, because diamonds are carbon, carbon crystals.

Jay Stang:

That's all they are.

Jay Stang:

And the hydrocarbons, ch four, methane, has been demonstrated to be synthetically formed in the lab.

Jay Stang:

There are vents in north Sea that are outputting methane, ethane, propane, butane molecules.

Jay Stang:

Abiotically.

Jay Stang:

Coal gasification was a process pioneered by Germans in world War two, Soviets, Russians.

Jay Stang:

The cold war also demonstrated the ability to make oil and gas abiotically.

Jay Stang:

But then also, there's a common sense test.

Jay Stang:

We know that in the solar system, the gas giants, Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, their atmospheres are comprised completely of hydrocarbons.

Jay Stang:

If oil and gas are only derived from biomass, that would have been a bunch of space dinosaurs on the gas giants.

Jay Stang:

Right?

Jay Stang:

Because otherwise, how did all the hydrocarbons get there?

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Space dinosaurs on the gas giants, pterodactyls in space.

Will Spencer:

I'm gonna write that.

Jay Stang:

There's no other way to get there.

Will Spencer:

Right, exactly.

Jay Stang:

Oil is made from dead dinosaurs, and the moon of titan is a methane sea.

Jay Stang:

So the atmospheric pressure of methane is high enough to keep methane in liquid phase.

Jay Stang:

And the temperature and the pressure are where it needs to be for methane to be liquid.

Jay Stang:

Titan is basically a planet.

Jay Stang:

Lng liquefy, natural gas, an ocean of LnG.

Jay Stang:

So to be able to get there, either the dinosaurs had to be on all the gas giants, or there's got to be another way to make oil and gas other than littlefoot and her mommy from the land before time.

Will Spencer:

Well, I mean, dinosaurs are fake and gays.

Will Spencer:

We know so right.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

We got to hurry up and die so we can make oil for an oil well 100 million years from now.

Jay Stang:

But those are the kinds of things.

Jay Stang:

Those are subversions or mental traps.

Jay Stang:

More mental traps we find ourselves in where.

Jay Stang:

Hey, is this really what's going on?

Jay Stang:

Let me evaluate.

Jay Stang:

I've heard this whole life.

Jay Stang:

Is it actually true, or is there something else going on that if I just notice it or pay attention to something, maybe I can figure out what's really going on?

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

You can see how you can take evolution and then you put that together with dinosaurs, and you get this idea, like, dinosaurs form oil.

Will Spencer:

So oil is this really rare thing, and we have to rape the earth to get the oil, as opposed to.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

And so you can put this together with even Elon Musk, like, oh, we're going to explore the stars, and we're going to rape the cosmos now, too.

Will Spencer:

It's like.

Will Spencer:

It's a feminist narrative.

Jay Stang:

It's really also a Macguffin.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

A.

Jay Stang:

Sure.

Jay Stang:

Because if oil and gas is bad and we need to be green, renewable, then there's something else we have to use.

Jay Stang:

But that something else is also still in the ground.

Jay Stang:

And so whatever we find to replace oil and gas, we have to dig it up out of the ground, just like oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

We have to mine it, we have to extract it, we have to process it, and we have to transport it.

Jay Stang:

And all that takes energy, right?

Jay Stang:

So you can't escape the laws of thermodynamics.

Jay Stang:

There's nothing.

Jay Stang:

There's no free energy source out there.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

You can't.

Jay Stang:

You have solar power from the sun without making the solar panels.

Jay Stang:

You can't make the solar panels without a lot of really advanced materials science, manufacturing and oil and gas.

Jay Stang:

You can't make a wind turbine.

Jay Stang:

A wind's here, it's free, but you have to build the turbine, and you have to use hundreds of gallons of lubricants, which are oil.

Jay Stang:

You have to use a lot of oil and gas to make the concrete and steel.

Jay Stang:

So there are no shortcuts.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

You can't create or destroy matter or energy.

Jay Stang:

You can't get away with creating energy.

Jay Stang:

You can't, because you're not God.

Jay Stang:

So there are always these trade offs.

Jay Stang:

If you want this alternative energy, you have to pay for it.

Jay Stang:

You have to spend energy to get energy.

Jay Stang:

You spend more energy than you get because of friction and entropy.

Jay Stang:

So there is no alternative.

Jay Stang:

And if you want an alternative energy source, the best and the most efficient and the most effective energy source we have is a gallon of gasoline.

Jay Stang:

Gasoline, it has the most energy density of anything that we can use besides nuclear power, for natural gas, hydrogen.

Jay Stang:

Anything else has less energy in it than gasoline, and so it's less efficient.

Jay Stang:

So all of the green and alternative energies are less efficient because they don't have the energy density in joules that gasoline has, which is why gas is so fun to set on fire.

Jay Stang:

It goes boom.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

So I think these are questions that a lot of christians don't like to ask and get into, because whether they know it or not, they accept the communist narrative.

Jay Stang:

They're very comfortable.

Will Spencer:

Sure.

Jay Stang:

Because once you realize there's something there, then you have to decide what you can do about it.

Jay Stang:

You have to take responsibility for your opinion or action or lack of action.

Jay Stang:

So it's uncomfortable to look at some of these sacred cows.

Jay Stang:

It's really what they are, sacred cows.

Jay Stang:

You got herds of them everywhere.

Jay Stang:

And everything I've said here is to kind of get you to think about some of these things you take without a second, a moment's thought.

Jay Stang:

It gets you to notice things or think deeper on things you take for granted.

Jay Stang:

Slavery, racism, feminism, whatever, all this stuff.

Jay Stang:

It's to say, hey, let me think about that some more.

Jay Stang:

Let me think a little deeper than just what's on the surface.

Will Spencer:

Do you want to talk about your christian faith for a minute?

Will Spencer:

Because we have a discussion about that as well.

Will Spencer:

Because I think men will want to know that, oh, wow, they can see themselves.

Will Spencer:

Because I hear what you're saying now, and this has been a great opportunity to get to know you better, because especially that you are clearly a man out of time.

Will Spencer:

The way that you think about all these things is, I mean, I think you've used the term like paleobaptist, paleo conservative.

Will Spencer:

Maybe those paleobaptists, I've heard you use, I've also heard the term elsewhere, paleoconservative.

Will Spencer:

But there is a component of anachronistic, not even conservative, anachronistic, right wing thinking, right wing, fascist, patriarchal.

Will Spencer:

That was it.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Stang:

So I joke with some of my friends who are catholic and said, you know, Baptists were the first church, you know, pre dance.

Jay Stang:

Well, John the Baptist, right?

Jay Stang:

Who's John the Baptist?

Jay Stang:

You know, it's all in good fun.

Jay Stang:

But seriously, you know, John the Baptist was there, you know, his first cousin of Jesus.

Jay Stang:

So John the Baptist was there, and John the Baptist baptized Jesus.

Jay Stang:

So Jesus was a Baptist.

Will Spencer:

Sorry, sorry, Catholics, sorry, Presbyterians.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, sorry, guys.

Jay Stang:

But you think about, you know, what are the old ways.

Jay Stang:

You know, I'm a.

Jay Stang:

I'm a primitive Baptist.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Will Spencer:

Primitive Baptist.

Will Spencer:

That was it.

Jay Stang:

And they've had, you know, old Baptist, hard shells, particular Baptists, but before.

Jay Stang:

So the Blackrock address in:

Will Spencer:

Okay.

Jay Stang:

Over a number of theological disagreements.

Jay Stang:

Salvation by faith versus salvation by works, Armenianism, missions, mission boards, some Baptists viewed those as an encroachment on the authority of each local body of believers.

Jay Stang:

And so the stresses built up over time.

Jay Stang:

And then you had Southern Baptists and Church of Christ camelites came out of the baptist church as well.

Jay Stang:

But before:

Jay Stang:

And there's an elder in Dallas, Mike Ivey, who wrote a book called Welsh Succession.

Jay Stang:

Primitive Baptist, tracing historical succession of Baptists into Wales and then even into Priscilla and her husband, who are mentioned in acts Aquila.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

So it's an unbroken.

Jay Stang:

And then that ties into apostolic succession.

Jay Stang:

Every preacher minister laying on hands.

Jay Stang:

If you take that chain all the way back to the beginning, every preacher has had his hands laid on, even back to Jesus himself when he's.

Jay Stang:

That kind of plays a new.

Jay Stang:

Because we don't have musical instruments, we sing old songs.

Jay Stang:

They sound weird, like minor key songs that sound very strange to the.

Jay Stang:

To the modern christian ear.

Jay Stang:

So it does kind of add to the man out of time perception.

Will Spencer:

That explains why you've had the leadership opportunities that you have, because you embody aspects of fatherhood, masculinity, manhood, adulthood, that I think a lot of men, they need modeled for them in a way that isn't a movie or that isn't a book.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

Embodied values.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

It would be very, very anachronistic.

Jay Stang:

There are small churches.

Jay Stang:

There are no musical instruments.

Jay Stang:

There's not even a cross on the building.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, the building is the building.

Jay Stang:

It's very simple.

Jay Stang:

It's not to say we are in a 20 foot shipping container.

Jay Stang:

I think gothic cathedrals are amazing, and they're a necessary part of Christendom.

Jay Stang:

It's just.

Jay Stang:

It's not our, you know, part of our, you know, our theology or doctrine.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

So, yeah, we have very small churches.

Jay Stang:

You know, you think, oh, there's nothing going on here.

Jay Stang:

It's just, you know, 40, 50 people, big deal.

Jay Stang:

Right.

Jay Stang:

But there's, again, a lot happening under the surface.

Jay Stang:

It's not flashy, so to speak.

Jay Stang:

You know, the pastors, a man husband, of one wife.

Jay Stang:

The deacons are husbands of one wives.

Jay Stang:

You know, women don't cover themselves.

Jay Stang:

But if a woman in our church chose to, no one would say, what are you doing?

Jay Stang:

Sure, it's a lot of individual conscience.

Jay Stang:

And so the theology is very, very old.

Jay Stang:

You know, it's not modern.

Jay Stang:

It's.

Jay Stang:

It's very anti feminist.

Jay Stang:

The ladies after church get up, go to the kitchen, and, you know, make lunch, and, you know, set lunch out.

Jay Stang:

It's that kind of thing.

Jay Stang:

So that's kind of church I go to.

Jay Stang:

And you'll find a lot of them scattered around the south.

Jay Stang:

If you get to the west and north, they're.

Jay Stang:

They're a lot more rare.

Jay Stang:

They're still there.

Jay Stang:

But it's easier to find a permanent baptist church in Texas or Georgia, excuse me, than it is in probably the Dakotas or somewhere like that.

Jay Stang:

But they're around there.

Jay Stang:

But it's not a big, flashy church.

Jay Stang:

No, hardly is.

Jay Stang:

Anyone has hardly ever heard of it these days.

Jay Stang:

Back in the.

Jay Stang:

As you go further back in time, it was more commonly known and recognized.

Will Spencer:

Right.

Will Spencer:

As a valid american kind of denomination or approach.

Will Spencer:

And there's something to that.

Jay Stang:

The most common access people would have is the sacred harp scene, which was in a movie, I think, cold Mountain, that won an Oscar.

Jay Stang:

And they had people that I know that I went to church with were on the stage at the Oscars singing some of the hymns that were sung in the movie.

Will Spencer:

Oh, amazing.

Jay Stang:

Yeah, it was wild.

Jay Stang:

Like, whoa, what's going on?

Jay Stang:

You know, pyramid, Baptist, sacred harp singers up on the stage of the Oscar singing whatever hymn it was.

Jay Stang:

And the hymns can be very simple, but they can also be very complex, like fugues, moving parts.

Jay Stang:

So you have the shape notes.

Jay Stang:

Either do remi, fosso, latidot or fossil fossilati four shape note chart.

Jay Stang:

So then you'll have soprano, alto, tenor and bass.

Jay Stang:

And then those parts will have changing time signatures, moving parts.

Jay Stang:

It's very technical.

Jay Stang:

And so that that's not very common at all, as opposed to, you know, a more modern proctor practice of having the band.

Jay Stang:

And then you have the words on a projector screen, and you just kind of mumble along so that it feels very old and very backwards and antiquated because there's a technical aspect.

Jay Stang:

And then there we have schools called singing schools, where you send your kids to this for a week.

Jay Stang:

It's like a church summer camp, and they learn how to read music and shape notes and to find the tone of the song, whether it's major or minor.

Jay Stang:

Then the tone, be able to sound out the lead, the singing.

Jay Stang:

So we teach our kids, we're going to one next month in west Texas somewhere.

Jay Stang:

So it's very removed from contemporary Christianity.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

I mean, we did four part harmony at the new Christendom conference last week, and it was incredible.

Will Spencer:

I'd never done that before.

Will Spencer:

I was surprised that it worked as well as it did with a bunch of newbies.

Jay Stang:

Yeah.

Jay Stang:

You have someone leading it that knows what they're doing, then they can, of course, whip you into shape, so to speak.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I don't know, sometime in the:

Will Spencer:

And I'm glad that.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

Earlier.

Will Spencer:

Yeah.

Will Spencer:

I'm glad that your father helped shape you in the man that you are.

Jay Stang:

Thank you.

Will Spencer:

So where would you like to send men to find out more about you and what you do?

Jay Stang:

You can see some of my best work on Twitter.

Will Spencer:

That's right.

Jay Stang:

Making everybody mad on a daily basis.

Will Spencer:

Yes.

Will Spencer:

You'll see Jay and I tag teaming on that from time to time.

Jay Stang:

That would be collusion, Will.

Jay Stang:

I would never admit to that.

Will Spencer:

No.

Will Spencer:

Exactly.

Will Spencer:

Exactly.

Will Spencer:

I have no recollection, senator.

Jay Stang:

I can neither confirm nor deny that.

Will Spencer:

Exactly.

Will Spencer:

All right, man.

Will Spencer:

Thank you so much for spending the afternoon chatting with me.

Jay Stang:

That's my pleasure.

Jay Stang:

Take care of yourself.

Jay Stang:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Renaissance of Men podcast.

Jay Stang:

Visit us on the web@renofmen.com or on your favorite social media platform at Ren of Men.

Jay Stang:

This is the renaissance of men.

Jay Stang:

You are the Renaissance.

Follow

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube