Shownotes
In this episode of Barbecue Nation, we delve into the multifaceted world of barbecue, exploring the complexities and challenges that practitioners face in both competitive and casual settings. One of the salient points discussed is the notion that while many aspire to carve out a niche in the barbecue industry, the reality is that achieving financial stability through barbecue alone remains a formidable challenge. We reflect on the evolution of competitive barbecue and the influence of social media, noting that the proliferation of similar recipes and techniques often stifles creativity among cooks. Additionally, the conversation touches upon the personal journeys of our guests, including their experiences in the barbecue community and their aspirations for the future. As we navigate these discussions, we emphasize the importance of passion and perseverance in the pursuit of culinary excellence.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
- pig powder
- Malcolm Reed
- AmazingRibs.com
- Myron Tuffy
- Meathead
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Welcome to Barbecue Nation with JT and Leanne.
Speaker A:After Hours, the conversation that continued after the show was done.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's jt and this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:We'd like to thank the folks again at Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends and beef the way nature intended.
Speaker A:And also pig powder.
Speaker A:You get [email protected] and Ms. Leanne, that's her deal, and it works.
Speaker A:It's very good.
Speaker A:I, I, the other night, I.
Speaker A:A neighbor of mine gave me a big bag of fresh green beans, and I thought, I'm going to try pig powder on those.
Speaker A:So I, you know, trimmed them up and cut them and cleaned them up and put them in a pan, put a little water in it and put some bacon in it and onion and all that, and then I put pig powder in it.
Speaker A:And they were delicious.
Speaker A:They were absolutely delicious.
Speaker A:That's an unsolicited pitch for your product there, kiddo.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I love to hear what people put it on and how it.
Speaker B:It does work for them because, you know, I can't think of everything.
Speaker B:You know, somebody was just saying sweet potatoes, like, killer on sweet potatoes.
Speaker B:And it is.
Speaker B:It's delicious.
Speaker A:It's really good.
Speaker B:Usually I like salt and pepper.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Pecan pie.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Semi frozen pecan pie with ice cream and pig powder on it.
Speaker A:There you.
Speaker A:Okay, Clint, here we go.
Speaker A:This is some lightning round stuff, as we say.
Speaker A:If you could cook for and then dine with a historical figure, they can be alive or not.
Speaker A:We'll go dig them up if you want to.
Speaker A:Who would it be and what would the menu be?
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:I am absolutely stumped on that one.
Speaker A:Oh, come on.
Speaker B:It gets a lot of people.
Speaker C:It does, yeah.
Speaker C:I really have no idea.
Speaker C:I'll just have to say Abraham Lincoln and hook up a menu all around apples.
Speaker A:Yeah, there you like that.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:If you could work with one of your barbecue heroes, and you've worked with a number of them, I know quite a number of them over the years.
Speaker A:But if you could work with just one, who would it be?
Speaker C:I mean, if I went back and worked with somebody that I have in the past, I'd love to work again with Jack McDavid.
Speaker C:He just cracks me the heck up.
Speaker B:He is a funny soul.
Speaker C:He really is.
Speaker C:And I helped him out at Memphis in May, going way back 15 years or so ago, and it was just a real pleasure spending time with him and, and learning from him.
Speaker C:He, you know, I cooked with him, helped him out washing dishes and stuff at Memphis in May.
Speaker C:And when I decided to become a.
Speaker C:A competition cook, he's.
Speaker C:He invited me to cook at a contest in Pennsylvania that was run by the Amish.
Speaker C:And he said, make sure that they set you up next to me.
Speaker C:And I swear, the entire weekend he was up there next to me offering advice.
Speaker C:And, you know, some of it was unsolicited and kind of a pain in my butt.
Speaker C:You know, he was doing a lot of hovering.
Speaker C:But I learned tremendously from him and, and really owe him a lot as far as advancing my skills.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:If you started your career all over again, what would you do?
Speaker A:If you wanted to do something different, what would you do?
Speaker C:I would probably skip the 20 plus years that I spent as a PR executive in New York City and just get to what I'm doing now and, and that's cooking and, you know, doing what I'm passionate about creating.
Speaker C:Creating good food to eat and sharing it with the world.
Speaker A:You know what I find interesting?
Speaker A:And Leanne, I'd like you to jump on this too.
Speaker A:This is not a question particularly for, for Clint.
Speaker A:It's for everybody.
Speaker A:I find it interesting now that people are.
Speaker A:Can actually make a living doing barbecue stuff because there's such a lot of different avenues to take.
Speaker A:There's the competitive, there's the, the books, there's restaurants, of course, and.
Speaker A:But there's just so much going on that I find it very interesting that people are carving out a niche in there and making a living doing that.
Speaker B:I feel that that is a little bit of an exaggeration.
Speaker B:I think that a lot of people appear to be making a living, but they are.
Speaker B:And there are very.
Speaker B:There's a handful like, you know, Myron Tuffy that, you know, actually can make a living from it.
Speaker B:But I think a lot of other people are doing other things to supplement that, because I just do.
Speaker B:Because competitive barbecue, you have to spend a lot of money and, you know, you aren't guaranteed to win.
Speaker B:And yeah, the top guys that are up there, I don't think they're making a living by competing.
Speaker B:Most of them have their own sauces.
Speaker B:The rubs, a restaurant, there's always something else, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's something that you have to embrace the whole thing of barbecue and use it to make A living.
Speaker B:Because I know I struggle.
Speaker B:Even with my background and restaurants and what have you, it's still.
Speaker B:It's tough to make a living at barbecue, in my opinion.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker C:I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there where people appear to be making a ton of money off of just doing barbecue and grilling.
Speaker C:But to your point, they're probably fixing leaky faucets on the side or, you know, they've got a real day job that's actually paying the bills, but.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a horrible.
Speaker C:The world has also changed.
Speaker C:It's not you.
Speaker C:It used to be where you only made money off of a restaurant or a cookbook, but now with social media and the Internet and everything, there are different avenues to.
Speaker C:To make money.
Speaker C:There's folks out there like Malcolm Reed that are doing fairly well, I think.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:He's one of the top people that's making it.
Speaker B:But if you can, you know, it's like maybe 10.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:There's not that many.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker A:Well, and it also.
Speaker A:This sounds kind of the absolute opposite of what I said a couple minutes ago, but when you get.
Speaker A:When anything, whether it's barbecue or any other type of cooking or food or golf or some sports or literature, whatever, when the market gets so saturated, like your example with Malcolm is excellent because Malcolm was.
Speaker A:Has been doing it for a while.
Speaker A:If you look at his viewer count, it's always very high.
Speaker A:And he gets paid for that.
Speaker A:Those numbers through YouTube or what have you.
Speaker A:And a lot of people think, oh, I can do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:A lot of those social media people that you think are making money are not.
Speaker B:They are getting products.
Speaker B:Free product is what they're getting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They aren't getting a contract, you know, where they're getting, you know, a monthly check by any.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:No, they're getting a freezer full of free hot dogs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And maybe from their sales, they might get, you know, a cut off of that, you know, based on, you know, what they sold with their coupon code or whatever, but you got to do a lot of that.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Living.
Speaker C:No, I won't.
Speaker C:I won't name who the person is, but there's a barbecue personality that I helped get hers or his first cookbook deal, and I still get residual checks from it, but it's 14 cents.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you've got this cookbook that's a bestseller that everyone sees in their local bookstore, but that actual author is making pennies on the dollar for.
Speaker C:For a book that's selling and the.
Speaker B:Cookbooks back in the day, when Ray was, you know, rampant with his.
Speaker B:That's when there was some money to be made in the cookbook world.
Speaker C:But now it's not.
Speaker B:Now it's not.
Speaker B:It's not that way.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what I've heard.
Speaker B:I'm not an expert.
Speaker B:It's just what I hear.
Speaker B:Unless you've hit it big, you know,.
Speaker A:And you're selling well, Meathead's book is a prime example.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Example of a successful cookbook author.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And how hard and how many hours.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He's earned it.
Speaker A:Yeah, he has.
Speaker C:There's a lot of them out there.
Speaker C:Just cookie cutters.
Speaker C:It's the same recipe done the same way, just with the different author's face on the front.
Speaker A:Yeah, we've had those folks on the show and, you know, I just let them talk.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't challenge them on that.
Speaker A:But then, because the results are in the sales.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, Memphis, we would say bless their hearts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or in that Sweet from Texas in that suite.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Clint, what does a fantasy day look like for you?
Speaker A:What kind of activities does it contain?
Speaker C:Oh, man, I'd like to just float in the pool all day long.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's hard being me.
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:I. I always thought that being able to stay home and.
Speaker C:And play with smoke and fire all day would be nice and relaxing, but it's, you know, paying the bills is never easy, regardless of what you do.
Speaker C:And I feel like I. I have a hard time shutting off.
Speaker C:So, you know, having my office at home makes it even harder for me not to be responding to emails or, you know, creating some new content or whatever.
Speaker C:So if I can just get myself to shut off and get in that lounge chair in the pool and float, that would be a dream day for me.
Speaker A:You don't get in trouble like I do sometimes from Leanne when I'm sending her an email at 3 in the morning and she goes, have you been to bed?
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Yeah, no.
Speaker C:I do have to be careful about sending late night emails because I will get a slap on the wrist for not turning it off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you could erase one mistake from your past, what would it be?
Speaker A:And why would you erase it?
Speaker A:That is, if you want to tell it in public.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:There's probably about a thousand of them from going to college in New Orleans that I would like to erase, but.
Speaker B:Thank goodness there were no iPhones at the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:You are spot on, Leanne.
Speaker C:I am grateful every day that.
Speaker C:That the only photos from my college years were the.
Speaker C:The party picks.
Speaker C:Do you remember that?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You'd have a party and they'd bring these.
Speaker C:These negatives or whatever, these proofs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And you'd have to select the ones that you wanted, pay them the $4 or whatever, and then a month later you get the photo.
Speaker A:Yep, yep.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Being.
Speaker C:Being at school in New Orleans, there would be some video and some photos that I would be paying people to scrub off the Internet.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm with you.
Speaker A:If you were.
Speaker A:This is a good one because this is.
Speaker A:We get varied answers on this one.
Speaker A:If you were declared supreme ruler of barbecue for a week, what would you, Clint Cantwell, decree as supreme ruler,.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker A:Would your declaration be about?
Speaker A:Barbecue.
Speaker C:I would say stop squeezing your meat.
Speaker B:Ah, that's a good one.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:That would actually.
Speaker C:That would be a good T shirt.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Wood squeezing your meat.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You can whip that out for amazing ribs and probably sell a hundred thousand of them.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:It would be the new I love butt or whatever that T shirt is.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:If we put your skills to music, what would the music be, Clint?
Speaker C:Probably polka.
Speaker C:Something fun and lively that people can dance to.
Speaker A:Are you a poker?
Speaker A:Not poker.
Speaker A:Poker.
Speaker A:King.
Speaker C:I am not, but that's right after I figure out how to become a fireman, maybe I could.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:I'm all about reinventing myself.
Speaker A:Well, I happen to have an accordion, so you let me know when you want to do that and I'll.
Speaker A:I'll go back and practice a little bit.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:Well, quick funny story.
Speaker C:I've got a friend that her parents and my parents have been friends forever before we were born.
Speaker C:And we were both born around the same time, so we've been best friends ever since we were little.
Speaker C:But she grew up in Wisconsin and there's a photo of her in Leaderhose and from when she was about 6 years old and I got a copy of it and every once in a while I just busted out.
Speaker C:Pisses her off to the nth degree, I'm sure.
Speaker C:Leader Hosen photo of a chunky little girl wearing these tights and whatever it.
Speaker A:Is, at least you don't have digress.
Speaker A:I grew up on a ranch.
Speaker A:We had a.
Speaker A:Well you folks had called a river.
Speaker A:We called it the creek.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:And there's a picture of me, I was maybe 6 or 8, and I'm change.
Speaker A:I just came out of the creek and I'm changing my swimming suit.
Speaker A:Up on the bank with my butt sticking out, pulling up my underwear.
Speaker A:And they took that damn photo.
Speaker A:And I still see it once in a while in the family.
Speaker A:And it's like, that's child abuse anyway.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:If you were an animal, what animal would you be?
Speaker A:Ooh,.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Maybe a giraffe.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I'm pretty tall, I guess.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I've got a giraffe up on my.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, this is Ja Rath, named after Morant from the Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker A:Oh, there you go, there you go, there you go.
Speaker A:What's the biggest change you think should be made, if any, in competitive barbecue?
Speaker C:I, I would love to see an expansion of the judges palates, but I don't think it's, it's ever going to happen.
Speaker C:You know, we're just, it seems like cooks are just copycats of each other these days.
Speaker C:And I don't know if it's the television shows to blame the Internet.
Speaker C:You know, there used to be one or two classes, competition barbecue classes, and now there's a zillion of them.
Speaker C:And you know, it seems like once somebody wins with a recipe, then suddenly everyone else is winning with recipe and you can't flex your creative muscles with sauce or rubs or anything.
Speaker C:So it's, I mean, it's not really a cooking competition at that point, is it?
Speaker C:It's just right.
Speaker C:The best copycat.
Speaker A:So I've got a question for you both.
Speaker A:I'm not a, I've judged a few competitions mostly as some local celebrity or something.
Speaker A:But you both judge your KCBS judges, whatever, do when they hold these classes, when they hold a quote unquote, judging school, do they ever not pass somebody?
Speaker C:Do they ever fail somebody in the.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, basically.
Speaker A:Do they ever fail them?
Speaker A:They say, you know, you're not qualified.
Speaker A:You, you, you, you, you know, you could be out there eating dirt and you know the difference.
Speaker C:I would doubt that they ever fail anyone.
Speaker C:I mean, it's a paycheck every year when they got to renew their membership.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Have you ever seen anyone failed?
Speaker B:I never have, no.
Speaker B:And I don't know how in the world it could fail.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, I came out of the competitive sports world and we had to go to continuing education every year depending on which license you were trying to renew.
Speaker A:And they did fail you.
Speaker A:I mean, there were literally tests and, and seminars and so on and so forth and they were very hard.
Speaker A:It was kind of like being an NFL referee or a.
Speaker A:You Know something like that.
Speaker A:You had to know the rules, you had to know the plays, you had to know this and that.
Speaker A:And if you took the tests and you didn't score, I don't remember what it was because they were quite hard at 78 or above.
Speaker A:You did not pass and they would not suspend your license, but they would kind of put it in a hiatus mode until you could retake the test and, and get a passing grade.
Speaker C:I vaguely recall having to do a test when I, I took the class to become a Memphis in May judge.
Speaker C:I think there was a scored test, but I don't know if you could actually.
Speaker C:I don't know that they'd hold back your judging certificate if you failed.
Speaker A:It just, I just thought of that though.
Speaker A:I just, I. Yeah, because most other major competitions outside of a barbecue in the food world, you can fail.
Speaker A:You cannot make it as an official.
Speaker C:So maybe, maybe it needs to be done.
Speaker C:There's some bad judges out there.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Boxers or briefs?
Speaker C:Right now I'm wearing briefs.
Speaker C:That's a very racy question for you.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, you know, sometimes we've had them say neither or none.
Speaker A:Oh, you know, like that.
Speaker A:So we always get interesting answers on that.
Speaker A:Where's the, where's the hardest place you've ever had to cook?
Speaker A:Like if you were at a competition or something?
Speaker C:I mean, I haven't competed in quite a while, but I used to compete up in the Northeast when I lived in New York.
Speaker C:And I swear every time there was a contest in the Long Island, New Jersey area, there would always be a monsoon and you're there trying to hold down your pop up tent while trying to keep the rain out of the intakes from your smoker.
Speaker C:And you know, one night the, the canopy collapsed.
Speaker C:You know, the water is pouring in on me, the power goes out, so I've got a flashlight in my mouth trying to trim the brisket.
Speaker C:And you know, I almost got in the car and went home, but I got it done somehow and I actually won the contest, which is crazy, but.
Speaker B:It, that's because everybody left.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:I got first, I got first, second and third place that day.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Out of sheer tenacity.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I mean, every single time we had a contest, it was some sort of monsoon that would roll through.
Speaker A:What's one thing you miss about your 20s?
Speaker C:I guess just the carefree nature of all of it.
Speaker C:You know, the world's problems didn't seem to be as big as they do today.
Speaker C:Now in my 50s, you know, just a lot less responsibility.
Speaker C:I did have a job, but I was able to go out and enjoy myself at night.
Speaker C:I didn't have kids yet.
Speaker C:I wasn't married yet.
Speaker C:And it was a fun time in my life.
Speaker C:But I. I mean, I'm not hating on what I have today.
Speaker C:I'm very blessed to have what I have today.
Speaker C:And I wouldn't change the past.
Speaker C:The past or the path that I took to get.
Speaker C:Even though there were hiccups along the way.
Speaker A:Sweatshirts or formal wear?
Speaker C:Sweatshirts.
Speaker C:A hundred percent.
Speaker C:This is my uniform for work.
Speaker C:Every single day.
Speaker C:I roll out of bed and I've got about a thousand T shirts and a thousand and one baseball hats, and.
Speaker A:That's my kind of guy.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:The weird thing is my brother is completely bald.
Speaker C:My dad was completely bald.
Speaker C:I've got this full head of hair, but I hide it under a hat.
Speaker B:Hat?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:All day.
Speaker C:So it.
Speaker C:It pisses them off.
Speaker A:Well, there you go.
Speaker A:Dire Straits, AC DC Or Billy Ray Cyrus.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Do I have to pick one of the three?
Speaker A:You can throw somebody else in there if you want.
Speaker C:Oh, it would be you two.
Speaker C:All day.
Speaker B:Every.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker C:Every one of their tours, and I'm actually flying to my most hated city in the entire United States, Las Vegas, in October to see them.
Speaker A:But, Clint, would you decide.
Speaker A:Describe yourself.
Speaker A:Excuse me, as corn fed or grass fed.
Speaker C:Corn fed.
Speaker C:Because I'm fat.
Speaker A:I'm with you, brother.
Speaker A:All the way.
Speaker A:Okay, just a couple more here.
Speaker A:Is there anything you would want to do in particular when and if you ever retire?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd like to travel more.
Speaker C:It's something that I really enjoy seeing different parts of the world.
Speaker C:We took kids to Barcelona last year, and every restaurant we.
Speaker C:We ate at, and I got to know the chef, Every single one of them said if you opened a American style barbecue place here, you do killer business.
Speaker C:So a dream would be to.
Speaker C:To actually pack up and move to Barcelona, cook up a couple of pork butts and briskets every day.
Speaker C:You know, offer them up until they sell out, and then just wander the.
Speaker C:The city the rest of the day, drinking wonderful coffee and eating great food.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:If you do that, do not squeeze the brisket.
Speaker C:No, I 100% will not.
Speaker A:Kind of like Mr. Whipple, don't squeeze the Charmin, but don't squeeze the brisket.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:Okay, last one.
Speaker A:What would your last meal be on death row?
Speaker C:I would.
Speaker C:I hate to go back to a former question or former answer, but I'd go with a thick as heck.
Speaker C:Ribeye reverse seared and finished with some marrow butter.
Speaker A:And have some of Leon.
Speaker C:Leon or you're Leon, Leanne's Frozen Pecan pie.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker C:To send me out on a high note.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:The guards.
Speaker A:The guards will be like, don't eat all that because they're gonna want it when you're done.
Speaker A:Clint Cantwell, newly elected, appointed well, Meathead did it.
Speaker A:So president of AmazingRibs.com you've been very gracious with your time and your answers.
Speaker A:I love them.
Speaker C:So I appreciate your time.
Speaker C:It's been an honor.
Speaker A:Thank you for being on the show.
Speaker A:Leanne and I are going to get out of here.
Speaker A:We've got some major announcements coming up in the next few weeks that we're going to share with people.
Speaker A:Until then, I'll just keep you in suspense for Clint and Leanne and myself, we thank you for listening and remember our motto, turn it, don't burn it.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
