In this week’s episode, host Scott “Sourdough” Power welcomes Vincent Bragg and Joe Michael Nickson, the co-founders of ConCreates, a creative agency that elevates the talents of individuals with criminal backgrounds. Vincent and Joe, both former inmates who met in prison, tell us how their lived experiences inspired them to challenge societal stereotypes surrounding incarceration and led to the founding of ConCreates. 

ConCreates connects currently and formerly incarcerated individuals—known as ConCreators—with established brands, like Meta and Google, seeking innovative perspectives. The agency aims to provide these individuals with meaningful work and fair compensation that matches their skill sets. A key aspect of their values is the belief that diversity benefits businesses and, more importantly, that it fosters creativity. Vincent and Joe discuss how their unique insights attract major corporate partners, allowing them to disrupt conventional marketing narratives with authentic stories.

This episode explores how ConCreates empowers its ConCreators, demonstrating that creativity can emerge from adversity when the right conditions are present. Vincent and Joe’s mission goes beyond generating ideas; it's about diversity of perspective and giving talented people a well-deserved second chance. 

Links mentioned in this episode:

Arterial

Arthouse

ArtsvilleUSA

ConCreates

ConCreates on Facebook

ConCreates on Instagram

Crewest Studio

First Friday Exhibitions

NOT REAL ART

NOT REAL ART Podcast

Remote Video Series

Scott “Sourdough” Power

For more information, please visit https://notrealart.com/concreates

The Not Real Art Podcast is intended for creative audiences only.

The Not Real Art Podcast celebrates creativity and creative culture worldwide.

It contains material that is fresh, fun and inspiring and is not suitable for boring old art snobs.

Now let's get started and enjoy the show.

Greetings and salutations, my creative brothers and sisters.

Welcome to Not Real Art, the podcast where we talk to the world's most creative people.

I am your host.

Faithful, trusty, loyal, tireless, relentless host.

Sourdough coming at you from Crew West Studio in Los Angeles.

How are you people?

Thanks for tuning in.

We love you.

We do this for you.

It's all about you.

Without you, while I'd just be talking into a microphone.

So thanks for showing up.

We so appreciate your loyalty.

Man, do we have a great show for you today.

We have the founders of Concretes, the one and only Vincent Bragg and Joe Michael.

And and if you haven't heard of Concreates, you're going to love this story.

Concreates is a creative agency powered by currently informally incarcerated individuals.

Concreates gives radical thinkers the chance to harness their creativity in a positive way by providing radical ideas to brands looking to break the mold.

In the process, Concretes hopes to shatter the stigma associated with the one third of the US Population who have criminal histories and provide people with a second chance to be valuable members of society and reduce recidivism.

How powerful is that?

And Vincent and Joe are on the show today to talk about what they do at Concrete.

So stay tuned for more because I'm going to this conversation is amazing and I want to tell you more about it in one second.

But before I do, I want to thank our Fiscal sponsor, Arterial Arterial.org Arturial sponsors the show as a nonprofit and allows our listeners and our supporters to make tax deductible donations to support our work.

So please consider going to notrelart.com and making a donation or arterial.org a r t e r I a l.org and support us there.

But every dollar helps and every dollar is tax deductible thanks to our fiscal sponsorship with Arterial.

Before we get into this amazing conversation with Vincent and Joe, I want to tell you about Art House.

Art House is a project that.

Crew.

West Studio, the company behind this podcast, has been developing and Art House is a unscripted television show about real people, meaning real artists to buy real art without breaking the bank.

And we've been developing this project for a couple of years and it's super exciting.

And we've just cast our new host, the One and only Carmen Acosta.

And Carmen is now going to go in front of the camera to film the pilot episode of Art House.

We made a short proof of concept video last year with yours truly as a sort of stand in host, sort of a proof of concept, little pitch reel.

But we need to shoot the pilot.

We need to shoot a full on episode pilot episode and get Carmen in front of the camera and get her to help people, real people, buy real art from real artists without breaking the bank.

In Art House, we visit not just the home of the art buyer, but then we go and we take those art buyers to the studios where the artists are working.

We meet three artists working in their studios and the family chooses one of the artists that they love.

And the artist then places an artwork in their home.

And it's just a phenomenal idea.

We love it because it's going to be great for artists.

It's going to be incredible platform, national exposure for three artists in every episode.

To be able to get that kind of exposure is really unheard of for artists.

And so we're thrilled that Art House will be a platform to amplify artists in their work and their stories.

So we're thrilled.

Plus, of course, viewers, the audience will get to learn about art and art making and how to buy art and the fact that they too can afford art, that original art doesn't have to be expensive, you know, and we're going to help them find original art that they love.

And we're going to travel to Wichita, Kansas, and Madison, Wisconsin, and Toledo, Ohio.

Um, we're going to go into communities across this country and support those artists that are in those communities and support people and families and interested parties that want to learn about art and art buying.

So we're thrilled about this project, Art House, but we need your help.

We need your help.

We're doing a crowdfunding campaign to raise the money for the pilot episode.

For the production of the pilot episode.

Every dollar, every donation is tax deductible through our fiscal sponsorship with Arterial.

Of course, there are amazing rewards and incentives as well that we're offering that you can read about.

So please, please be sure to click on the link in the show notes, go to the website notrealart.com there'll be information attached to this podcast that you can click on.

We're doing a crowdfunding campaign as you hear this and we would love your support.

We're trying to raise $150,000 to produce the pilot episode.

And every dollar helps.

So if you want to Support the arts.

If you want to support artists.

If, if, if you're an artist that wants to support other artists, if you're an art, arts curious, arts enthusiast, art collector, art buyer, and you like this concept, please consider donating and supporting the show.

Like I said, it is tax deductible.

Any donation, we have some incredible rewards and incentives.

So please go check out Art House because it'll be a game changer for working artists across this country.

So thank you for that and we appreciate any support.

Okay, enough of that.

Let me tell you about our VIP special guests here today.

We've got the one and only Vincent Bragg and Joe Michael from Concrete.

Vincent Bragg is the CEO and co founder of Concrete and his story is incredible.

After being sentenced to several years in prison, Vincent Bragg quickly learned that some of the most outside of the box thinking happens inside the box.

It was here Vincent realized the cells meant to imprison him and his peers were a breeding ground for creativity.

Years later, Vincent founded and now serves as the CEO of Concrete, a creative agency that leverages radical ideas from incarcerated, informally incarcerated men and women serving brands like Meta, Google, Indeed, tbs, United, Roc Nation, and more.

Vincent Bragg is such a smart dude.

I mean, he built a $300 million cocaine business and that, that got him, that got him pinched.

But then he turned his life around and started helping others and helping brands with this incredibly ingenious creativity that he has.

And his partner, Joe Michael, the one and only Joe Michaels.

Pure strategist, charismatic, creative genius.

Is it something that you would normally think about when you talk about a bank robber?

Yeah, yeah, Joe is a bank robber.

But in the case of Joe Michael Nixon, a South Central LA native, his ability to turn media nightma into marketing miracles allowed him to turn his life around.

Growing up in a home of a logistics expert and a caregiver, Joe developed skills that took him places he would never imagine.

And at the age of 25, ended up in federal prison.

Allegedly while in prison, he met Vincent, who helped him see the potential of his skills in the agency space, in the creative agency space.

And they form concretes.

And after 17 and a half years, Joe has transitioned from navigating relationships inside to finessing marketing tactics on the outside.

These guys are just so special.

They're just so great.

I so appreciate them and their story and their friendship.

We know each other through our mutual friend, Jimmy Smith.

The one and only Jimmy Smith, friend of the show, former podcast Guest.

But today, today, today we have the one and only Joe Michael and Vincent Bragg from Concrete.

So without further ado, let's get into this conversation I so enjoyed.

Here we go.

Joe Nixon, Vincent Bragg, welcome to Not Real Art.

Well, appreciate you having us, you know, Excited to be here?

Most definitely.

Most definitely excited to be here.

Well, you know the show, I like to say at Nautilart we talk to the world's most creative people.

And as far as I'm concerned, You2 are two of the world's most creative people.

Oh, thank you, man.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having us.

You know, and I didn't have a lot of humility this morning, so I did, like you just said, make ad Week's top 100 creators.

And I take that all the way.

So yes, we all.

And they are, man.

Congratulations.

You just got the news today.

No, I had this some years back because on the list it was, it was this rapper, his name was NASA, then it was me, it went N, then it was, it was N, then it was me.

That's how it was because it was an alphabetic.

What?

Oh, man, we're on today.

We're on today.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, you know, I mean, there's so many layers and dimensions to your story.

I mean, I, I don't know if you guys have a super fan, but if you don't, I want to be it.

I think I might be your number one fan, your super fan.

Because the story that you guys have and everything you're doing now, everything you've done, everything you're doing, it is such a human story, it is such an inspiring story for anybody out there that maybe is doubting themselves or maybe is up against challenges or maybe, you know, things they have, they're not good enough, right?

Or maybe they got something on their history that is going to hold them back.

I mean, you guys have transcended so much in your life and now you've got this killer agency, this award winning agency.

Concrete.

Concrete.

Tell me, tell the audience, because I know, but tell the audience right now about Concrete.

What is concrete?

Well, to tee it up, one of the great American sayings is when you're thrown on lemons, make lemonade.

And that is one of the origins of power creating.

So, Vincent Bragg, you're on.

All right, so once upon a time, you know, for telling stories in a lifetime, not long ago, I personally happened to build a drug empire a little north of 300 million.

Allegedly robbed 27 banks by the age of 22.

And that behavior was frowned upon by the United States of America, where we were essentially put on what we like to call an adult timeout.

Yeah.

So we end up going to federal prison.

And I think we just, you know, kind of leverage that time like.

Like school.

Right.

We were able to just really study law, corporate law, real estate law, read a bunch of books, hosted book clubs, cancer walks.

And I think the.

The thing that kind of sparked the idea for Concreates is Joe happened to be watching Sports Center.

He's just in the TV room.

Like, all of these TVs happen to just be on one particular story, and I'll alley oop it back to him so he can kind of gives you that.

That energy of how this whole thing kicked off.

And on this one particular story, there's a star running back, Joseph Randle of the Dallas Cowboys.

He was just drafted and in the headlines all over the newspaper saying, star running back arrested for shoplifting.

And we're like, okay, this doesn't make any sense.

So as you do the research, we go in there and find out that the guy was actually in the Dallas shopping mall with his son, and his son was going through the terrible tools and doing his shopping escapades his child just had attached and to console his child to take him outside to them.

But there were two items that he didn't, he forgot to purchase, which were underwear and a bottle of Ralph Lauren cologne.

Well, we happen to be in there in federal prison with the founder of a startup company called Me Undies.

And we had the idea, like, why don't we partner these two?

Why don't we turn this negative into a positive, and let's see where the.

Let's let the cars fall what they may.

And what happened next is what the kids call viral.

And I'll pass it back to this.

Yeah.

So I think, you know, we kind of sitting around like, dang, that's crazy.

Like, this thing is viral.

Watching this idea that we.

We had, you know, from behind prison walls, like, actually moving around in the world and having this bit of success.

And I think, you know, one of the things that Joe always says about me is I, I awful lies.

Like, it's.

It's this program in prison that you take, you know, and.

And that's one of the terms, right?

Where it's just like, ah, maybe this was just a fluke, right?

Maybe this, you know, wasn't.

Wasn't all that we're excited about.

So he happens to notice something else, which is Marshawn lynch keeps getting fined by the NFL for grabbing at his crotch every time he scores his touchdown.

Had the brilliant idea, plug him in with me undies.

He ended up going to the super bowl that year and won.

So when they asked him after that, why didn't you grab at your crotch?

He said, I wear the most comfortable underwear in the world, me undies.

And it went to the moon.

So now we're kind of sitting around like, wait a minute, like, I think we got something here.

And so I go away.

What?

He says, like, it's the Moses moment, right?

I go away, I'm kind of sitting on my bunk.

Everybody looking for me, they want to celebrate.

I come to him, I'm like, yo, when you see a McDonald's commercial, like, who do you think's doing that?

His answer was McDonald's.

I'm like, no, it's an agency that does that.

He like, oh, yeah, we could do that.

I'm like, duh.

Like, yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

If we had an agency, what would we call it?

You know, come up with the idea.

Con creates, convicts that create.

And at that moment, the rock stars were born.

Yeah.

First I joined the prisoner entrepreneurship program called the five ventures.

Got excellent mentorship, learned the fundamentals, you know, starting a business, that sort of thing.

Ended up having a mentor that, that plugged us in with this guy named Tim Jones.

He was, you know, like an executive strategist over at 72 on Sunny.

Pitch the idea to 72 and Sunny of an agency that exists powered by the incarcerated and formerly incarcerated.

And since then, we've kind of been working with some of the biggest brands on the planet, from Adidas, Trojan, United Airlines, you know, you name it.

Like, we're really like out there at this point.

Yeah, man, in a big way.

In a big way.

There's so many layers to this.

And obviously it all starts with you guys.

Because it's funny, you know, every once in a while you'll hear these stories about so called white collar criminals or, you know, federally incarcerated people that got caught doing something or whatever.

And you hear their stories and you think, oh man, clearly they are brilliant.

Clearly they have this intelligence to mastermind whatever it was, right?

And then you think to yourself, oh man, you know, what could be possible if they took that intelligence and applied it to something positive versus something maybe, you know, unhealthy or Negative or whatever.

And you guys are a testament to that.

Yeah.

Because not only, you know, I mean, obviously, given however the situation was, I mean, you built businesses because you had to survive.

You had bills to pay, whatever.

And, you know, whether those businesses were legitimate or whatever, that's all debatable.

I know, Vincent, I think I might have been one of your customers.

I'm just real, real talk.

But, but you.

So clearly there was this intelligence and this brilliance that helped you build a multimillion dollar drug business.

And Joe, clearly, you're one of the fastest men on earth to be able to allegedly escape 27 banks along the way.

But then, you know, so you guys are in there with all that energy and you're saying, no, no, no, we can apply this to something that is, that is positive and not just for yourself, but for the other incarcerated peoples.

Yeah.

And I think what, what you're tapping into is like the, the ethos, right.

That's like the, the premise of this whole thing where we had kind of like started to look at each other differently.

Right.

It was a point in my life where I thought that that's all I would ever be.

Right.

I didn't know, you know, that there was anything else out there, any other opportunities.

And, you know, we kind of really came up with this idea of, like, creativity without opportunity is what leads to criminality.

That's how we kind of figured out, like, well, Joe's not a bank robber, right?

He's.

He's a strategist.

Right.

I'm.

I'm not necessarily a drug dealer, Right.

I'm.

I'm logistics.

I'm operations.

These are all skills that I may have picked up inadvertently, you know, during that, that particular time of my life.

But they're applicable in, in this arena where I know brands that'll pay you better than a doctor for the title of brand strategist or, you know, planner or, you know, copywriter or, you know, whatever.

So that's kind of like where we came from.

We came from that idea of being able to transfer these skill sets.

And, you know, we've worked with companies like, indeed, who obviously recognize that.

Right.

Like people who are looking for jobs, they might have been out of the workforce, whether they were incarcerated, whether they had children and wanted to see them through school, wanting to jump back in the workforce.

Like, we created a whole skills guide to kind of show people like, hey, yeah, you might have been a single mother or you might have been, you know, raising kids and had this 20 year, 18 year gap in your work history.

But here's some of the skills that you might have picked up on that you may not even think to put in a resume when you're trying to go get a job or if you're in the interview process, like being able to show how that's applicable to the company that you're trying to work for.

Say nothing of the kind of nerve.

The kind of.

When I say nerve, I mean courage, right?

The kind of strength of character and conviction and courage to.

To.

To do something bold, right?

To do something risky, high risk, you know, and, And.

And creativity is about that.

Creativity is about taking risks and, And.

And, you know, perhaps some more risk and more creative.

And, and that, I'm sure you telling brands that all the time, right?

You're like, look, guys, you got to think outside of the box.

And that's one of the things that I love about your story, because you talk about how the box is so important, you know, in terms of getting out of it, being able to think outside of the box.

It's almost like you have to have known the box to be able to think outside of it.

And, you know, and I'm guessing that as you guys work with brands and companies that.

That you're.

You're constantly trying to encourage them to take a risk and to do something bold.

Well, yeah, I think that's, you know, kind of like one of our standpoints is like, if.

If we're not getting legal involved with an idea, like, it's not a good idea, right?

Like, if you're not questioning, can we do this, you know, then.

Then maybe we need to go back to the drawing board.

And, and it's challenging, right?

It's.

It's challenging because people only know what they know.

And so when you have some of these.

These brand leaders who are so.

Yeah, I think every brand kind of says they want out of the box thinking, right?

But, you know, when they've all kind of gone to the same schools and the same, you know, been taught the same, or this is how you execute it can be a challenge, right?

And finding that balance is.

Is one of the things that I think we've been able to do well with brands.

It's like, okay, cool.

This is super.

And here's where we find that medium.

We call it the Goldilocks principle, right?

Like, this one's too.

Too hard.

This one might be too soft, but this one right here, it's just.

Right.

Love that analogy.

Finding that sweet spot.

You know, there's just so many aspects of this because obviously, you know, Building the company, coming out and getting the company going is, is, is one thing, but the fact that you have reached back, you know, reach back into the box, so to speak, having to lift and bring, lift people up and give others opportunities to create what concrete talk about, I don't know what the phrase is.

Was it rehabilitation programs?

Right.

Like that's what you've created on a certain level as well, right?

Well, yeah, And I also think like, it's important to think about like, what these individuals may be accustomed to.

Right.

And it's like, like when I think about coming home from prison, it's always like, you know, the jobs that you can get or the, the friendly, the felon friendly brands or the ban.

The box companies are like, you know, they kind of want you to sit in, you know, maybe stock shelves at Walmart or, you know, be a greeter or, you know, something that's not really conducive to say, running a $300 million business.

Right.

I could probably run Walmart if, if given the opportunity.

Right.

I think for us, you know, we're not like, I don't, I never say like, we're the solution, right.

But we are a solution problem, which is how do folks reintegrate into society?

How do you not put them in a box, you know, based on, you know, your own biases or where you think they should be in life?

And so I think we do a really good job at, you know, showing individuals coming from those same circumstances what the possibilities are and, you know, not having to shrink themselves because of a couple mistakes or a mistake that they made in their life.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, the Spurgeon story you shared is so lovely and great.

Talk about your growth.

I mean, where were those milestone moments where you were able to level up?

Yeah, man.

So, you know, a couple, couple brands came to us.

You know, a little small record record label called Roc Nation.

Yeah, right.

You know, came a knocking.

Right.

So no revenue, right, no revenue knocking on doors.

Just trying to get people to say yes to allowing us to even Display our skill set.

Boom.

Roc Nation comes.

We work on Casanova's album.

He is also a formerly incarcerated hip hop artist and, you know, did his stuff.

It was cool.

And then the pandemic hits.

So now it's like we went from being this agency that everybody's trying to figure out how to work with to, hey, we're shifting budgets.

We're, you know, this isn't the time for us to be bold right now.

And so one of those kind of milestones, I think one of the first initial milestones was Meta, you know, back when they were Facebook company as the holding company, like, really just gave us a shot, you know, shout out to Joyce Chen, who, you know, ran creative over at Facebook company, who onboarded us during the process.

You know, it just became one of those things where that's what our problem was.

It's like, yo, you guys don't have any work.

Have you ever worked in this?

In this and this?

And, you know, Joyce kind of just took a chance on us, and we're kind of telling them, like, yo, we need it, like you.

Somebody gotta let us go first.

And, you know, Joyce kind of gave us that shot.

So I'd say that was like a huge milestone.

Being able to drop one of the first Juneteenth projects into the world before Juneteenth was a holiday, before it became a thing, being able to kind of see the future like that, becoming a national holiday.

And Meta collaborating with us to make that the first thing was a huge milestone.

And I think just having Meta, you know, on our roster, on the board at that time kind of led to other brands like United Airlines coming to us for Juneteenth, you know, making sure that, you know, they were on brand but also not offensive.

And, you know, those sorts of things that became a real tent pole moment that we kind of owned for the first few years of Juneteenth.

So I say that was a huge milestone for us.

Well, Joe, as a strategist, when you guys got that break with Meta, as you think back on that project, what was the strategy that came to you that that was the winning strategy?

The winning strategy was something that we were coming up with.

The company was messaging, and messaging delivers with demographics.

And the most important thing is I wanted to stretch across all generations.

I wanted Generation X.

I wanted the millennials.

I wanted the baby boom.

Actually.

We wanted to reach across all generations, right?

We wanted to show the youth, we wanted to show folks that come from our generation as well as, you know, the leader of the whole Pack, which is.

They consider her the grandmother of Juneteenth, which is Ms.

Opal Lee.

And, you know, I'm sure Joe would have probably mentioned this.

Part of the frustration in the project is because we're trying to articulate why this is important culturally.

And we have a team on the other side full of white folks who don't really understand the significance of Juneteenth.

And, you know, we had got to a point where it was just like a Mexican standoff, like, we're not budging.

They're not budging.

And so, you know, Joe had a really good point, I think that crossed it over, which was know not just about budget, but it's like.

Like, you kind of have to take a backseat to this.

Like, this isn't your.

Your.

Your strong suit.

You know what I mean?

And.

And I think the messaging, what was so important was showing Opal Lee, showing trade of truth, showing Caris Rogers really made the difference and being able to see how June tinkers.

When you really think about it, one of the problems that we wanted to solve was we don't even know how to celebrate Juneteenth.

It's not a national holiday.

This is only something that happens amongst the black community.

And so that's what we were able to settle on, right?

We were able to get all of these groups from Facebook groups and these three.

Three individuals as, like, the anchors or the credible messengers and really teach the world how we celebrate Juneteenth in our culture.

That's what the campaign was called.

This is how we Juneteenth.

And so I think the messaging was super important.

Once we were all able to kind of come to an understanding of, you don't know how to celebrate Juneteenth because it's literally not even a holiday yet.

We have to show the world how to do it, because even black folks may not understand.

It's like Kwanzaa.

You know what I'm saying?

We have to set the foundation.

And.

And meta got it, right?

They got it.

They understood it, and we launched it, and it was super successful.

Well, and that's such a powerful point, too, because, I mean, part of what you're making, part of the point you're.

You're making and trying to educate those folks at Facebook is like, look, guys.

And I'm.

You know, I'm gonna be.

Just cut to the chase.

It was like, look, guys, love you, but you're white.

You don't get this.

Let us help you understand it, but also let us show you that the black community is not a monolithic community.

Right?

Like, you know, like, like, like, like this is a complicated thing, you know, and you as a white person might think that, oh, all black people think this or all back black people feel this way.

And actually that is like, do all white people think the same?

Do all white people, you know, no.

You know, and so the fact that they finally trusted you guys and let you guys take the wheel and drive it, I mean, that is the kind of, I hate to call it courage because it's not that big of a risk.

It is.

I mean, if you actually lean in, right.

But like, if a real leader, if a real brand marketer, you know, hopefully they understand their limitations.

They want to bring in experts.

You guys are the experts.

Yeah, I think that's what it's about, right?

It's about us, you know, actually owning that.

Right.

I think that's one of the biggest things when we talk about reaching back to that box is, is actually being the ones who, who laid a foundation for those that are unseen, right?

Like the folks that, that you may not think about, maybe you might not have that experience or maybe they're still in prison.

Maybe they haven't even discovered concrete.

You know, actually being able to say, like, no, you're an expert in this particular thing because of your lived experience, which I think is super important.

I think that's, it's, you know, I might be making a prediction here, but like, like that's where I see advertising going.

Once people understand, like the lived experience is how you communicate with, you know, demographics, you'll see a lot more risk takers, you'll see a lot more authentic representation of, like you said, white folks don't think.

All the same, black folks don't think, you'll start to see a really good representation of, of the different ways of thinking based on the lived experience coming through in the work.

Well, and what you're getting at with that is the, the, the, the humanity of it, right?

Because I mean, yes, on a certain level, on a certain level, we as humans on planet Earth have, on a certain level, you know, many kind of common or shared kind of experiences in, at a high level.

But I mean, when you start to drill down and really look at our, look at your neighbor, look at your colleague, look at your partner, whatever, your friends, like, you start to realize that their experience in life is very idiosyncratic.

Like, like, yeah, sure, there might be some common truths and some, some, some things that we all kind of can relate to.

But, but if you really let a Human.

Be human.

And if you really let those humans who have certain expertise or capabilities, you know, lean into their strengths, I mean, it's just going to make the team that much stronger and better.

And, and, and because at the end of the day, that humanity, people feel it, they see, see it, they, they smell it, you know, And I think that it rings true as authentic and relatable.

It's like, oh, this is honest, you know, and that is that honesty.

I think that brands, especially today, need now more than ever, I think, because I mean, it's, it's hard to break through.

Yeah.

I mean, and that's when you get those like, interesting things of like how I was explaining, like during the pandemic, everybody's like, hey, we're changing everything.

And it's like, do you really have to.

Because this one thing.

Cause don't forget, during that time, it wasn't just the pandemic, it was also George Floyd.

That's kind of what put us back in the game when everyone was like, hey, we're not, we're not in the space to take bold risks right now with, with this, this kind of, you know, brand new Kids on the Block agency.

And so George Floyd happened and then it was like, well, we kind of need your voice now.

Like, we need your, your opinion, we need your insights.

And then I think folks just got scared, like, oh, let's throw money at it.

Let's, hey, we're gonna give all this money to, to black businesses.

And you know, whether or not they did or not, I think you have this kind of like herd mentality that becomes the inauthentic voice that we're talking about.

Because that particular lived experience, I think me personally, like, outside of being, being like a concrete or even just an advertiser, I would much rather someone tell me, like, I'm not, I'm not into that.

Rather than like following the trend and saying, hey, we're going to support these things.

Because then when you pull it away, right when you take it away, when you're like, okay, cool, like, that's not the vibe no more like, now I'm doing this.

Like, like, that's where you see like these kind of boycotts with Target and things like that, where it's like, okay, like, like, did you really mean it in the first place?

I would have much rather targeted, said, we're going to continue to move.

Like, we already been moving.

Yeah.

Instead of thinking, oh, this is what the climate is saying to do well.

And I mean, that gets to just, you know, you would respect them much more.

Right, Right.

If they just said, no, not for us.

Thank you.

No.

Versus, oh, yeah.

Being opportunistic.

Oh, yeah.

And then.

But not keeping it real and sustained over time, you know, because that's.

That's what it.

You know, like, if you're honest and have integrity and really mean, want to be an agent of change, you know, you gotta stay in the game.

Yeah.

And I think without, you know, completely, like, throwing it on them.

Right.

It's like you kind of need these individuals on your team with that lived experience, someone who's gonna say, you know what?

This might not be for you.

This might not be for us.

And I think that's why representation matters, and I think that's why concrete matters in.

In this.

In this thing.

Because even when DE and I was the push, it's like.

Like, even we're, like, convicts aren't considered DE and I, like, we're not even a part of the conversation when we think about inclusion and diversity.

And diversity, to me isn't just, you know, gender or, you know, racial, you know, identity.

It's like diversity and thought is where the.

The real work comes through is.

So, you know, like I said not to just put it on the brand and saying they.

They were communicating inauthentically.

It's like, you know, where are the.

The authentic people that are informing you?

And that goes back to the Met, the Meta project that we worked on.

It's like they had the right ones in that room saying, no, this is.

Is.

We don't even know how to Juneteenth.

You don't know how to Juneteenth.

We don't know how to Juneteenth.

Let's go and find these groups of people who have been celebrating Juneteenth and.

And doing it just undercover.

Let's.

Let's let them show us.

Yeah, let's.

Let's go talk to the people.

Let's not sit on our thrones and, you know, just think what we think.

You know, let's go to the actual people that are doing the thing already and let them show us.

Yeah, man, I used to be an agency guy and.

And putting.

I mean, every, you know, putting everything we're saying just, you know, all things being equal even in the best of times, you know, getting a brand to do something or winning that account is so hard.

Yeah, it's so hard.

Right?

And.

And let alone when our, I don't know, political issues at play or racism at play or whatever the case might be, bias or whatever, and so the fact that you guys have literally gone from zero to hero.

I mean you have gone from being incarcerated to now running a very successful, award winning agency with so many staff members is just a testament to the fact that your time has come and that what you guys, what concrete offers is now more needed and more relevant than ever.

Yeah.

And I think that's, that's what makes it so fun.

I think, you know, one of the things that we really like is to solve big problems.

You know, don't come to us just for a black problem.

You know, don't come like what, what keeps you up at night?

You know what I mean?

And I think that's just one of the things that makes it, like I said, fun is he's back.

I'm gonna let you talk, get a word in just in case your go out again.

Take it away, Joe.

Yeah, I troubleshoot.

I was like, man, every time I say some words it's over with.

So I'm gonna just.

Nah.

Like what he said he was there.

Ain't telling stories while I wasn't there.

He wasn't there.

So he got it.

He got it.

Well, you know, he, he was singing your praises, brother, because you know, you know, you, you were talking about, about that cross generational messaging that was so key to strategy for the meta project.

And he was taking me through it in terms of, you know, showing people how to do teeth.

You don't know how to june teeth.

You know, we didn't know what we were doing.

The nobody knew, nobody did.

And just have that as a brief, like, okay, stop.

Let's figure it out, let's figure it out.

What are the pillars to Juneteenth?

We know what are the pillars.

How did the first people to celebrate.

Let's go.

And then I think that was dope because we were, like I said, we were able to go to the people.

We got all of these groups, travel groups, you know, culinary groups, you know, barbers, like all of these black groups.

And we were able to get the leaders and administrators of those different groups to kind of say, hey, this is how we Juneteenth in Memphis.

This how we Juneteenth, you know, in the travel movement or whatever it was, it was just cool.

That's great, brother.

That's great.

You know, look, so I'm going to, we're going to jump around a little bit, okay?

Because we're talking about the agency right now.

We're talking about this important project that was a real kind of milestone project for, for concrete.

But I want to go back.

I want to go back years.

Okay, okay.

Because, you know, I want to get real for a minute because so many people that are listening have never been incarcerated.

They've never had, you know, that experience.

And I want to go back to the days when you guys were looking at doing time and you were, you know, I don't know if you had lawyers or how you were represented or like what the deal was, but you're in court, your case is being tried, etc.

Etc.

Go, take us, take me back.

Take us back to those days, those moments, how you were feeling.

And then when that guilty plea came down and you knew you were about to do serious time, like, how do you, how does your mind even begin to wrap itself around that?

And how do you even begin to prep for that?

Because you're going into, onto an alien planet with, with, with those spacesuit, you know, no doubt.

So it was like, it was, it was informative.

So like, everything else is a process.

So first of all, you have to process that you're in trouble.

So that's the indictment.

So it actually.

So when it started, when they got.

I was 22 years, 23 years old when they came and got me.

So the process of what I actually did and that I was in trouble, like, I forgot that I allegedly robbed 27 banks.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm like, okay.

And then the process, when I'm getting indicted, I get indicted in Los Angeles, then I have to go to Nevada, then Nevada, I get a request from Missouri, I'm like, good Lord, I'm in trouble, right?

So when it, when it starts off one of the scariest moments like Vince always attest to, when you get a federal indictment and it says the United States of America against you, that is your wake up call to know that.

You are in trouble, deep trouble.

So now I have to study the statutes, what I am charged for.

Because of course, again, I am a nerd.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm like, what the hell am I in here for?

Like, okay, it says 18 USC 9, 24C US 24C, which is use of a firearm in a crime of violence.

Now for me as a strategist, I want to figure out where this law came from.

And an interesting story.

This statute, although they use it everywhere else, it was an immediate response.

That is the origins of 924C.

But what they do now is they utilize it in an organized crime.

Anybody who has a firearm and a crime of violence on top of whatever other crime you were in there, you're going to get seven years bowlegged or maybe 25 on top of that.

So just processing what trouble you were in then I was like, okay.

Then I went through the process of okay, this lawyer, you have to go, you're fired.

You want me to assist the government, you're fired.

So you have to go through the process of getting who's going to fight for you and what's going, going on.

So during the process of being in Metropolitan Detention Center Los Angeles, that is when I turned into a legal beagle and the process of it was the end results.

So although I went to federal trial, I was scared to death.

Now what you have to remember going to federal trial very quickly is that you're going to.

They have unlimited resources, meaning they are about to put on a play.

So for two weeks we have expert witnesses coming from Smith and Wesson to say this was officially a firearm that we've seen in here.

They're putting on this show.

It's everything.

Every lawyer, every person from bank of America, yes, these deposits were insured by the United States.

It's just a, they're us utilizing your taxpayer money to find the best of their capability.

So doing that.

But the process, the biggest thing for me where I didn't understand where my attorney went.

Shout out miss Ellen Barry if you out there, Ellen, let's.

We got to do some content together too, Ms.

Barry.

She said, okay, today is going to be a day for you.

And I was like, your trial has been today.

She said, no, you're going to have to get in front of your emotions because what's going to happen today is some of your friends, even your childhood friends are going to testify against you on here.

So you're going to have some.

I didn't know, I'm like, yeah, whatever, whatever.

And she gets up there on one of my, my friends or former friend or whatever it is, I don't know what's going on.

But he testified and when he got up there and he began to cry and ask him, you don't want to be up here, do you?

And it took everything in me not to boil ball up because my attorney said you cannot show the emotion because that is the moment.

And just those different motions in Their pockets.

Like it is an experience that I can never forget.

And through all of that, with all of their resources, I still got a hung jury and they found me guilty of one robbery.

It was a story.

So in order for my 20 year sentence, I had to eventually plead to four more robberies and they would throw out additional charges.

And that's how I ended up getting my sentence.

But it was a hell of a journey for me because the Feds have a 98% conviction rate.

And just for me, knowing that it wasn't in the cards and how it happened, yeah, it was a part of the concrete story.

It was inevitable it's going to happen this way.

So the verdict comes down.

They.

They put the handcuffs on you and walk and walk you out.

And you know you're about to do.

Real time years of that very moment right there.

They don't do it.

So how they do it, everything is psychological.

I remember this shit like yesterday because my mom.

Tell me, man, tell me right, so.

The federal government, they want you to know how much time they're giving you and how long you're going to be gone.

So they don't sentence you to year, they sentence you to mine.

So while they're reading my sentence, my mom can't contrast what they just said.

So they said on come such and Such, you get 60 months for this and then you get 156 months and then you get 240 months, period.

And when they said 240 months, I guess my mom equated it to 240 years because all you hear her saying, God damn, he ain't kill nobody.

I'm laughing and sad at the same time because it is funny.

And then you see my family.

So that moment I remember because I had a laugh.

I was smiling, but I couldn't control the tears that ran down my face because I really didn't understand what happened.

So that moment right there was.

It was enough.

It was a floating feeling all the way back to the holding tank until I got back to the unit.

Because you remember now everybody who is here on the time is on, on the news.

So everybody's case is on the news.

So everybody's anticipating what my sentence is going to be, right?

So my whole response is, everybody don't want to break the monotony.

When I come through, it's a whole.

My partners from everywhere in Los Angeles.

So they was like, they don't want to say nothing, so I break it.

They was like, so what happened, man?

What they do?

I was like, Shit, they gave me 20 years like they gave you.

You, You.

You think I'm all special.

What do you think of.

Man?

So those experience, I'll never, like, I.

I'll never forget because it reminds me of the grit and the attitude and the smiles and the encouragement and the attitude that said individuals who are never, ever, ever, ever coming home, and if you were in their presence, you wouldn't get it.

You wouldn't see that because they're in the process of creating a business.

Every individual like that is in there as if they're going home tomorrow.

Yeah.

And it's adapting to that.

That's like.

I could see how that's how you have to survive.

Right.

Just having hope that tomorrow is a day.

Most definitely.

Because we always use the analogy that is the difference between the graveyard and outside is prison.

That is the closest you're going to get to non existing, but existing you're gonna get.

Yeah, well, that's it.

You, you, you.

Okay, so it's your turn, you know, I want you to start.

Where were you when the fed showed up and scooped you up?

I wasn't.

First of all, I wasn't where they came to.

I wasn't there.

Second off, I turned myself in.

You know, like.

Like they came.

They came looking.

You know, I got kind of got the word.

Like, they came looking for me.

I ended up turning myself in only because, like, I didn't.

I didn't know.

Right.

Like, I was in that type of trouble.

Like, in my mind, I'm like, I've never, you know, been surveilled or, you know, phone taps, like, you know, any of that.

Like, it's just not how I move.

I'm not thinking, like.

Like there's this type of time involved.

So I turned myself in thinking, like, you know, I'm gonna get a couple years if anything.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm thinking it's like the state.

I'm like, people can't just say something about you and you go to prison.

Right.

So super naive.

I guess I could say turn myself in.

And when they read the time I was looking at when they do the arraignment, they said 360 months to life.

My heart failed to the flow.

I said, I'm not even 30 yet.

Y' all gonna give me more time than I've been alive.

Like, for what?

Like, I'm in the courtroom, like, for what?

Like 30 years.

For what?

And, you know, my lawyer, like, calm down, calm down, calm down, whatever.

So my.

My experience was a Bit different than Joe's because I'm looking at what he just said, which is, you know, that 90, 98% conviction rate.

I'm like, I'd rather just take the guideline range and get out these people way.

So I'm not even looking at 30 years.

I could live to fight another day.

And so, you know, pleading out, you know, getting the sentence and, you know, just to back up a little bit more, the reason why I turned myself in is because I had a dream that I was supposed to go to prison.

I had a dream that I don't know if I was going to meet, you know, a billionaire that was gonna, like, want to live vicariously through me or if I was gonna gain some knowledge that was going to make me a billionaire.

But when I woke up from that dream, I told my son's mom, like, I got to turn myself in.

I got to go to prison.

So for me, when I got the sentence, it was more of a relief.

Like, okay, cool.

Like, I know how much time I got to do.

I'm gonna go in there and, like, go find this person or go get the knowledge that I'm supposed to get.

So I walked in there kind of with that mentality already of, like, I.

This is a part of my journey.

This is a part of my story.

I'm going to come home because, you know what I'm saying, I'm only 121 months.

I'm gonna come home at some point.

And, you know, really, when I think about it, it's like, ran into Joe.

All of those origin story things kind of happened, and I gained the experience and the knowledge I was supposed to get walked out of there and doing my thing.

Now he got all the billionaires in his phone.

That's a fact.

I don't know what it's like on the inside, but I could imagine that, you know, it's sort of like, you know, eye straight ahead.

Don't fucking make eye contact.

You know, like, just, you know, do you.

You know, stay focused?

No.

No.

Okay, now tell me about the moment where you guys, you know, your eyes met and you met.

Just think about this, right?

Like, for one, people don't notice, but we went to the same high school, you know what I'm saying?

Like, not only do we go to the same high school, we know of each other, but don't know each other.

The other part that's interesting that I don't think people really think about is him and I, like, personality wise, industry wise, we're natural enemies in the wild, you know what I'm saying?

Like, he's, he's, he's a robber and I'm a, I'm.

I'm a dope boy.

Like, natural in the wild is like we would never.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's just, we don't, we're not, we're yo.

Incompatible.

Yeah, when you think about it, but then when you think about his personality and my personality, he's like one of the happiest fuckers all.

It doesn't matter what's going on.

He's cracking jokes, he's fucking loud, he's fucking, you know, all of the things that, that you can't help but laugh and, and smile and acknowledge him.

So, so I let him pick it up.

But like, to set it up from that standpoint is like, the thing is.

The things like this, right?

If you were the cool kid in elementary, you were the cool kid in junior high, the most popular kid in high school.

It's not going to change.

If you go to federal prison, you just on your table with the cool kids, right?

And it happened to be.

That was the cool kids.

That was our crew.

It was like a rock star like Jonathan from Me Undies, Ricky Coley, Vince Cease.

That was our clique.

We ate together, we went to the library, we hustled together, we started companies together.

That was our clique.

That's just what it was.

Those are the like minded individuals.

We look like a boy band.

They didn't know everybody found your people, right?

Yeah, that's how it worked.

And it was cool because like, like the shit that we used to do in there, that like was the bonding moments was like, like I remember one time, you know, we not really supposed to have food, right?

We not supposed to take food out the kitchen.

But that's our mission every day.

Because we don't want to eat.

We don't want to eat in that kitchen, right?

So we, These are all capers we're trying to figure out.

All right, what y' all want to eat tonight?

Oh, we making stuffed peppers.

We gotta go get bell peppers.

We need ground beef.

We need all of these things.

And we watching, we watching the Cooking network.

Like, man, did you see what the hell she made, man?

We making that tomorrow.

We need that tomorrow.

We need to figure it out.

And so, so the interesting thing is it's funny because we were all still in prison together at the same time.

He end up getting caught with some cilantro, right?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

So.

So, okay, so now you gotta keep in mind when you're one of the cool kids, the correctional officers don't like the cool kids.

You know, you got the jerk, the co.

So everybody wants a reason to fuck with you.

So I just had some cilantro sitting in my windowsill.

Are you supposed to have it?

No.

What is it?

Breaking the rules is very minimal on it.

But you can put me in trouble, you know what I'm saying?

If you want to.

Yeah, if you want to.

So this guy sent me to the hole for having cilantro, like, because we're going to make, I don't know, we was going to make some ceviche or something.

I need the cilantro, so.

And yeah, it was for something, you know what I'm saying?

I was like, okay, no big deal.

I'm laughing at this.

Going to the whole initial, like, oh, yeah, I need a timeout anyway.

I'll be out in about a week.

And so the funny thing about it is, like, we all kind of come together because we like, he needs step damps, he needs something to smoke, you know what I'm saying?

He need all of this things.

So we kind of already have to like break into the hole, so to speak.

I'm glad the statue of limitation is up.

My dear cohort before I went to the hole.

So I act like I was.

So It's a cold 10.

The only way the homies is gonna get to me before I do this is if I have a medical emergency and they'll be able to come up to the medical.

So I sent out the bat signal.

I'm about to go out there, man.

These dudes somehow got me the things that I need, the matches, the paraphernalia, all the shit up there.

And I went to the hole with everything that I needed and was in there smoking every day, having fun, being created.

And when you think about it, though, when you think about it though, that is literally how we still move now.

Like, that's how we problem solve.

This is how we get into these rooms.

This is how we get, you know, these billionaires and brands is like, all right, the problem is we want to work with them.

They might not even know.

We've already maybe spotted a problem that they have.

So we always coming up with this kind of what we call caper switches.

As a quick conversation that goes back to work.

One of the work that things that I'll never forget is working with Google.

Google had these self certifications where you can do your own thing, you can get qualified sponsorship in there.

Yeah, of course.

There we go.

Right now.

And I'm like, I'm thinking.

I don't know what he was about to say.

Well, while we're waiting for him to come back, Vincent, you know, because.

And I don't want to dwell on it if you don't want to dwell on it, but, like.

But just that.

That moment where you.

Because.

Because most people have not gone through what you've gone through.

Yeah.

And the mental fortitude.

And I'm not, you know, obviously, you know, you had your own reckoning, you had your own stages of.

Of.

Of grief or, or acceptance and all these things.

But like, like the, the.

But the mental attitude and that you had to have to get through what you had to go through, but then that moment where you realize that your life is.

Is.

Is changed for the next however many years.

Like, how did you.

Like, what was that mental process like for you?

As.

As you were leaving the courtroom, you knew you were going to be doing time, and how did you start to get your mind around that?

Well, like I said before is like, I kind of already knew why I was in here.

Right.

Like, I.

I never looked at it like, I'm in here for the crime and that.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't know if it was, you know, a coping mechanism or, you know, whatever, but I didn't associate the two things together.

Like, I associated it with my purpose or my journey.

Right.

So I didn't walk through the situation, really.

Yeah, of course, like, you know, the time is like, you know, how am I going to get through the time?

But, like, my mentality was like, I'm supposed to be here.

Yeah.

Okay.

And part of your journey, you knew.

You knew from the get.

From the jump that this was obviously part of your journey, and you kind of accepted that from go.

Yeah.

I mean, I've always had.

And I don't want to sound like, arrogant or conceited, but I've always had this kind of, like, feeling that I was special or I had something to offer the world.

You know what I'm saying?

And I realized even in me getting in trouble with the government was this was just another kind of part of that journey, even if it was bringing it to the tip of the spear of what the real purpose was.

Like, even just being in the drug business, also just feeling lost with that.

It's like, how do you have a good heart in.

In a situation where you.

You can't show weakness, you know?

And so, you know, I've always kind of felt like I had a bigger Purpose on.

On.

On this earth and.

And everything that, you know, kind of came before prison, in my opinion, was just teaching me what that purpose could be.

You know what I'm saying?

And I knew going into prisons, the reason why I turned myself in was like, there's something that I have to get out of this.

This situation.

I'm just passing through.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm not gonna be one of those.

Those guys that are institutionalized.

I've had that conversation a lot when I was in there with people.

Like, I used to have a job where I used to have to sweep up the yard while everybody was locked down.

And I took that yard because, I mean, that job because I didn't have to, like, be in a cage, but I would have my headphones on.

Like, I'm sweeping and I'm dancing and, you know, doing the thing.

And, like, people are just in the windows watching me.

And, you know, people used to come to me all the time.

Like, how the are you walking around dancing?

And, you know, all of this, like, not just, you know, inmates, but, you know, guards and, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

And.

And I told him, this is like, even the re.

Even cooking, right?

Like, all of that purpose was so all of those things, those activities were.

We did everything so we didn't have to feel like we were in prison.

We wanted some form of normalcy.

Right?

And to me, being able to walk outside, not being surrounded by a bunch of people, being free to listen to music and dance and.

And be myself, I think I walked through that thing.

It's like, okay, I'm going to have to be here.

I know there's something for me to gain or learn or experience while I'm here.

And the rest of it is just me trying to not feel like I'm in here.

Like, to still not lose my spirit, not to lose my personality, that is.

Such a powerful message.

But aiming.

It's like a strategy.

It's a coping strategy.

Like, you're.

Yeah, no, no.

You know, yeah, I might be here, but I'm still me.

And how can I find value and purpose in this situation?

Because you also know that that purpose and that value is going to give you joy, give you, you know, peace and whatever the case might be.

And, you know, part.

Part of the reason why I'm just curious about this is because, you know, I think back to the pandemic, and, you know, people.

I mean, people were losing their minds.

Yeah.

They say, oh, I can't leave the house.

I'M like, you're.

You're.

You know, I thought.

You're not.

It's not like you're in prison.

I mean, this is probably a temporary situation.

We'll get through it.

Hopefully you don't die in the process.

You know, get Covid or whatever.

But.

But just as, you know, like, I remember there was a French philosopher, Pascal, I think his last name was, and he said that the root of all man's problems is his inability to sit alone in a room.

I find it interesting that you brought this up because it's something that I did not mention as a milestone stone moment.

I'm not even sure if you're aware of it, because it doesn't exist on our website anymore, but I was getting those same calls.

Executives calling me, like, yo, I'm going crazy.

How did you do prison time?

So we, as a.

As a company is like, okay, this is what we can offer to people.

We created something called the Concrete Guide to Doing Time and Quarantine.

And it was literally like, okay, this is the workout.

You know, you can't go to the gym because gyms were closed and that sort of thing.

Like, you know, you can make.

You can get a mop stick.

You know, I'm saying, you get some buckets, put some water in bags.

Like, we had like a whole detailed thing.

Like, these are some books that you can read.

These are some new skill sets you can develop.

You know, we.

We had a whole thing and it went crazy.

Like, people were downloading it, downloading it.

And, and yeah, I think we had the advantage because we.

We were able to kind of figure out how to be alone, you know, during that time.

Because, like, you don't.

You don't go to prison and then, like, reunion.

I mean, some people do, right?

Like, I thought that was interesting in that journey is like, you know, seeing people like, oh, what's up, man?

I'm just in.

I'm in here.

Like, what?

Like, how are you guys excited to see people in prison?

Like, I don't want to talk to anybody right now.

I'm pissed that I even got to be here.

And that kind of was like that eye opening thing of like, like, you know, what you here for, you know, you.

You have a purpose.

Just because I don't understand what that purpose may be.

Like, like, I had faith that I would eventually understand what my purpose was.

And, you know, I think, you know, with being one of the founders and leaders of Concrete, it's like, I think having that faith is how we ended up here.

Yeah, being able to recognize that moment of like, no, this is what I'm supposed to be doing now.

I'm supposed to be giving back to the, to the people providing this opportunity, this new mindset.

And yeah, I think, you know, I went in there with the intentions on finding, finding a new, a new pathway and in a purpose and I think I accomplished the goal.

And again and again and again because I mean you've, you know, you built a $300 million business which is something virtually no one ever does.

Like, you're a rare, you're a rare person to even be able to do that.

Then you went in and you did, you did, you didn't just do your time.

You, you, you, you, you, you, you thrived in your time, right?

And now you're coming out and you built, built, you're building and are in a building, are building another successful multi million dollar business.

And I mean that is, you know, such an inspiration to me, to so many people listening right now.

You know, poor Joe, he's had technical difficulties.

He'll jump on in a minute.

But if not though, and then we're, I want to be respectful.

But look at that, he just said you were coming right back.

Joe, we were just talking and you know, obviously we're on time and I want to be respectful of your guys business here.

I'm sorry that you've had technical difficulties, you know, but I want to make sure you, you, you get in on this because you guys have accomplished so many things in life that most people ever do.

And in fact some of the challenges you guys have, most people would never be able to face.

And because it takes a certain kind of fortitude and strength, inner strength.

And you guys have reinvented yourselves yet again.

And you're being concrete as this award winning agency, well, well on its way to being a multimillion dollar agency.

And you know, as we wrap up here today, like, what words of advice, Joe, would you give to young creatives out there right now who need a boost?

What do you want to tell them?

Oh, stop waiting for a seat at the table, go build one.

I don't give a damn if it's an idea.

If you're talking about a brand and you have an idea, go shoot the Pepsi ad.

You don't need their permission.

Go make it go cracking some.

It's.

Go get to them.

Go make it.

Sitting and waiting for those opportunities and all that's a no.

No.

You see what AI is doing on everybody.

You see what's taking place right now?

You See the studios doing this.

You see what's taking place right now.

Go and make it.

Love that, love that.

That's it.

What.

What words you got?

I guess there's so many words, but yo, my thing is just like, go, like, just get what you getting at.

Like, I don't think no is.

Is.

Is the discouraging factor.

Like, if you can get past the nose, you know what I'm saying, to get to that one yes.

Like your dream is literally one yes away.

And the piggyback on the way out.

If you enter a field, please study your craft.

Please go and find the ones, please touch out.

Because if you don't know who is who or what's going on and what has been done, you don't know where you're going.

We would have had a major hiccup if Vince and I didn't have the opportunity to meet creative legends like Jimmy Smith, the founders of 72, and Sonny Wynn and Kennedy.

If you don't know where you're going to where you want to be and put your place in a situation where you could be with those people, like having Lee Cloud stop and take a selfie with you, like, life is complete for me.

Love that man.

Joe Nixon.

Vincent Bragg, I tell you, you're an inspiration.

I'm so grateful.

Not just that you came onto the show, took time out of your business schedule to come on and share your story, but I'm grateful because, you know, you're my friend.

Like, I think of you as my friends.

And I'm so grateful for your friendship.

And we gotta break bread.

We gotta get together and hang.

We're overdue for that.

Maybe we can get our boy Jimmy to come together.

Come, come.

You know, I don't know.

I mean, we might as well go shoot tennis, shoe shopping.

That's something we like to do.

Love that.

I love that.

Well, you know, I.

I'm just so grateful for you guys and, you know, so as we wrap up, I mean, like, what's next?

I mean, like, you know, you guys had so many things going on.

What are you excited about right now?

What do you want the people to know about what's next?

Well, I'm going to be honest.

There's a famous comedian and his name is Martin Lawrence.

And Martin, he had a show and he had a catchphrase one time.

Martin was in the transition of, if you remember, his character, he was a radio host, but it started escalating, and he was letting everybody know, Gina, radio is cool, but this face belongs on the tizzle.

So y' all, watch out.

We're coming to network television.

Apple's next, baby.

If you guys want to know what happens if you took Mad Men, put a little bit of boys in the hood, and sprinkled Shawshank Redemption, you gonna get this concrete series, be on the lookout.

You heard it here first, people.

I love it.

There's nothing I can say after that.

Well, I hope you remember us little people when you guys are, you know, world famous and whatnot, because, you know, I want you to come back on the podcast and talk about what it's like walking down the street.

Everybody knows your name, you know, most definitely.

That's a lot to even think about, man.

That's the long pressure.

Like, we can't go to Walmart.

Like, we can't.

That was my favorite place.

That's what I say.

I said, you know, the fame, I want, the fortune, you know?

You know?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, little fame's good, too.

Boys, fellas, gentlemen, thank you for coming through.

You're the best.

Anything.

Thank you kindly.

It's all.

Appreciate you, brother, for having us.

You know, let's do that thing you said, break some bread and.

And hang out and chop it up.

Cool.

It's on.

We'll make it happen.

And much love, brothers.

All right.

Salute.

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