This episode delves into the profound and often unspoken challenges that leaders face when navigating the tumultuous waters of a cancer diagnosis. We are graced with the presence of Deb Krier, an extraordinary entrepreneur and certified integrative cancer coach, whose personal journey through multiple cancer battles has equipped her with invaluable insights. She adeptly combines her extensive experience in communications and public relations with the wisdom gained from her own trials to assist high-performing professionals in maintaining their leadership presence amidst personal turmoil.

Deb’s narrative serves not only as a testament to resilience but also as a reminder that vulnerability and openness can foster an environment of support and understanding within organizations. Join us as we explore practical strategies for leaders to cultivate a culture that embraces compassion, while deftly balancing their professional responsibilities with the intricacies of personal health challenges. Navigating the tumultuous waters of leadership amidst personal turmoil can prove to be an arduous endeavor, particularly when faced with the daunting specter of a cancer diagnosis.

Today, we engage with the remarkable Deb Krier, who, after confronting stage 4 breast cancer in 2015, transformed her formidable challenge into a beacon of hope for others. Through her initiative, TryingNotToDie Live, Deb offers invaluable wisdom to high-performing professionals, equipping them with the tools to lead with resilience and clarity during the most trying times. As we delve into her journey, we explore the complexities of identity and success in the wake of life-altering events, revealing that true leadership extends beyond mere professional accolades and encompasses the courage to embrace vulnerability and seek support. Deb's insights illuminate the profound realization that the human experience is replete with challenges, yet it is our response to these trials that defines our legacy.

Amidst candid reflections on her battle with cancer, Deb articulates a narrative that resonates deeply within the corridors of the corporate world, where the pressure to maintain an unyielding façade often overshadows the necessity for compassion and understanding. In her discussions with me, she emphasizes the significance of maintaining open lines of communication, advocating for leaders to share their struggles with their teams, thereby fostering an environment rich in empathy and solidarity. This episode serves not only as a testament to the strength of the human spirit but also as a clarion call for organizations to cultivate cultures that prioritize well-being alongside performance. Deb's journey is a poignant reminder that leadership is not merely a role to fulfill but a profound responsibility to uplift those around us, particularly in times of adversity.

Takeaways:

• Navigating the complexities of leading through major life disruptions, such as cancer, requires both courage and clarity.
• Individuals diagnosed with cancer often grapple with their identity; it is vital to remember they are more than their diagnosis.
• In the workplace, transparency regarding health challenges can cultivate a culture of support and compassion among colleagues.
• The significance of gratitude cannot be overstated; recognizing small daily blessings can profoundly affect one's mental resilience.

Links referenced in this episode:

• tryingnottodie.live

Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to Becoming Bridge Builders, the show where we explore courageous stories and practical wisdom to help leaders build healthier organizations and stronger communities.

I AM your host, Reverend Dr. Keith Haney.

Welcome to Trailblazers and Titans, the show we explore courageous stories and practical wisdom to help leaders build healthier organizations and stronger communities.

I am your host, Reverend Dr. Keith Haney.

Today, we're learning leaning into a topic where many leaders quietly navigate.

A few feel equipped to discuss leading through cancer and major life disruption.

Our guest today, Deb Cryer, is a seasoned entrepreneur, communications and PR expert, and founder of TryingNotToDie Live.

As a certified integrative cancer coach, she now helps high performing professionals and their teams lead with clarity, strength, and resilience during treatment and recovery.

She blends business acumen and lived wisdom to guide executives through the most human challenges without losing their voice, their value, or their vitality.

Deb, welcome to the podcast.

Oh, thank you so much, Reverend Doctor.

Holy shmoly.

I am truly honored to be your guest.

We're gonna have a great conversation.

I am so looking forward to it.

I'm gonna ask you my favorite question.

Kind of get us warmed up a bit.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Just go with the flow.

Which this day and age is a little tricky, right?

It is.

Cause the flows flow in all kinds of ways.

Oh.

Holy cow.

Mm.

Mm.

I like that, though.

So let's dig into your story.

Cause I think your story is so fascinating.

You spent over two decades helping organizations tell strategic stories.

Then cancer changed your own story overnight.

What shifted in your priorities, your identity?

And how do you define success after that event?

Well, I'll do the last one first.

I'm still here, right?

You know, that's about as successful as you can get.

Um, but yeah, back in.

I went in for my annual checkups like you're supposed to.

Had my mammogram, and I hadn't even gotten home when they called and said, you need to come back now.

I also worked for the American Cancer Society, and I worked for an oncologist.

So I know just enough to be dangerous.

Right.

And.

And I.

And I knew, oh, it wasn't that I hadn't smiled pretty.

So I went back, and what was initially diagnosed was micro calcifications.

Now, I didn't know what that was, so I Did the thing I do tell people to avoid.

I went to Dr. Google and.

Right.

You know, we really shouldn't do that.

But I'd never heard of micro calcifications.

Discovered that every woman over a certain age gets those as the hormones in our bodies change.

And obviously the vast, vast majority of the time, there's no problems.

They just float around and they're so small that the computer saw it.

So this is before AI was, was doing things like this, but the computer was able to see those and see that they were starting to coalesce.

So my initial diagnosis was stage zero, which is, we're not even, you know, yeah, you're going to get a doctor, but we're not going to get too worried about it.

And so I wasn't worried.

You know, had a couple biopsies, I had a surgeon.

I did not have an oncologist because nobody thought I needed one.

Finally, after several months, we did do a little bit more in depth surgery and took lymph nodes on the bad side.

And eight of 12 lymph nodes were positive.

So I went from stage zero to stage three, just, you know, in the span of about 10 minutes.

And that's when I started thinking, oh, we could have a problem here, you know, and because, you know, stage four is the, the, the as high as the staging goes.

And they said, hey, you've got stage three.

So I did get an oncologist, and I love her dearly.

I still see her every three weeks.

And, you know, she, she said, you know, let's.

What do you want to do now?

I chose the traditional approach.

You know, I was gonna do chemo, then I was gonna do surgery, then I was gonna do radiation.

But one of the things that I tell people, and especially now, is you have to do what works best for you.

You know, if you don't think that treatment is gonna be what's best for you, then don't do it, you know, and don't let anybody talk you into it.

So I had my first round of chemo, was massive.

Eight different drugs, because these little spickly spots were throughout my body, right.

And it darn near killed me.

I ended up with septic shock.

And in icu, multiple, multiple surgeries, the doctors argued over how fast I was gonna die.

Um, you know, and, and, and I remember thinking, wait a minute, I get to vote.

Excuse me.

Right?

And, yeah, I mean, it was, it was very bizarre.

And in that process, one of the things that I, I said was, you know, my rib hurts.

The rib on the Bad side.

So they did a really fun test on that, and that came back as inconclusive.

So the decision was made at that point to say stage four.

So my official diagnosis is stage four, triple positive, which is actually fairly rare.

Triple positive metastatic breast cancer.

I am, you know, the.

The, you know, it was one of those things where up until that point, now, this was 10 years ago, so hopefully the stats are a bit better now.

But I was the only person who ever survived this complication ever.

I mean, I've been presented now in all sorts of papers and all sorts of things, but, you know, I just kept thinking, I'm not done.

No, I'm not done.

You know, God, whoever, no, we're not done.

And so had then I, you know, once I finally was.

Was a little bit better, I did just, you know, I had surgery, had a complication from that that they'd never seen before because I'm special.

And then I had radiation.

Sailed through radiation.

Which, considering I am a redheaded, freckly kid, they were really surprised at that.

I did not have any side effects from the radiation.

No burning, no anything.

And then things kind of got back to normal, as normal as they were gonna be for me.

The septic shock has done far more damage to my body than the cancer ever would.

But, yeah, just was sailing along.

Several years ago, I was in my primary care doctor, and she said, anything else?

I said, well, I got this thing on my arm that won't heal.

And off I go to the dermatologist who diagnosed basal cell carcinoma.

It's funny, I think that sounds the worst out of all of it.

Basal cell carcinoma, it's your basic garden variety skin cancer.

Right.

You know, many people have that.

And I am the redheaded freckley kid that grew up at an elevation of over 8,000ft and still does not know what sunscreen is.

So, you know, that was easy.

Didn't even take a stitch.

But it was another diagnosis.

And then it's been about three years ago, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer.

And it is a totally new diagnosis.

So I've had three totally different diagnoses of cancer.

And the whole time, for the most part, I just kept working.

You know, I tell people hospitals and doctor's offices have really good wi fi.

You know, people who get diagnosed with cancer, it sometimes becomes their identity.

How did you deal with that diagnosis?

Not you being cancer or you being just kind of walk us through kind of.

What about your mindset?

How did you take all of that?

You know, I Think a big part of it was based on that oncologist that I worked for.

And it was probably 35 years ago.

He has since passed away.

But his philosophy was, this is just part of what's going to happen in your life, you know, and how you deal with it mentally is going to be how you get through it.

And I really do remember thinking, well, you know, okay, this is just another chapter.

If somebody refers to me by my diagnosis, I tend to get a little testy.

And I tell the redhead part of you, I know it is.

You know, even though it's enhanced now, I am a natural redhead, or was.

And.

But, yeah, if they.

And I get that sometimes, that's the shorthand way.

But I had somebody one time refer to me as the thyroid cancer in room four.

And I went out and I said, excuse me.

I get hipaa.

I know, hipaa.

I understand.

You can't yell out my name, but I am not my diagnosis.

That is just a very small part of who I am.

And, you know, I don't know if I made a difference with them, but they didn't call me the thyroid cancer patient anymore.

Now you're just a redhead in the room.

Yeah.

I'm curious.

You work a lot with business leaders, especially around this topic.

What do you wish business leaders and colleagues understood about cancer that you learned the hard way from your own experience?

It really is not the end.

You know, I think one of the things that I hear the most is that they feel that they cannot tell anyone about their diagnosis.

And I was kind of hesitant.

Also, you know, were my.

I have my own marketing firm, and I wondered, what were my clients gonna say?

Were they gonna say, you can't do the work?

Yeah, we just know that.

Or would they say it in a nice way, you need to focus on yourself, you know?

Or would they say, okay, just tell us what we can do?

But it really was.

You know, what was I.

How was I gonna deal with that?

And I was very fortunate.

All of my CL clients said, what do we need to do?

And I still drop off the face of the Earth every 21 days for a day or two, and they're perfectly fine with that.

But I think so many times, we think as the leader that we have to be, and especially men, the strongest, the most independent, cannot complain, and we cannot share what's going on in our lives.

And what I have found is people want to help.

You know, they.

They really want to be helpful.

They want to support you.

I had people who have supported me through this journey that I didn't even think knew I existed.

And they were some of my biggest cheerleaders now, some of them.

Some of my friends from elementary school dropped off the face of the earth, and I don't know why.

You know, I don't know if it kind of, you know, they were thinking, hey, this is their own mortality, or.

Or whatever.

But, you know, clearly that friendship had run its course, and I.

And it just wasn't anything I was gonna worry about.

But people really do wanna help and they want to share, and you do not have to go through this alone.

I had people on my podcast who have been employees who have dealt with cancer.

I'm curious, because you've been at the top of the organization, you've dealt with it.

How, as an organization, do you deal with an employee who's going through a cancer diagnosis?

With compassion, Realizing that that person is more important sometimes than the bottom line.

Kind of walk us through some suggestions you have with dealing with that in the workplace.

Well, it's a little tricky because there's laws that apply, you know, and so, you know, it really is.

It's very tricky because if you know the patient, and I don't like that word, I'm a warrior, you know, and.

And so if.

If that person doesn't want to tell anybody, they don't have to, or they might go to their boss, their HR person, whoever, and say, here's what I'm dealing with.

But you can't tell anyone, and by law, you cannot tell anyone.

And so you still want to try and basically meet them with what they need, you know, and provide them as much support as they can.

And obviously, it depends on the size of the company.

Some companies have more paid time off, you can work remotely, you can do a lot of things, and people never even know that there was a situation.

If you've got an employee assistance program, I strongly recommend that people reach out to that, because this is a mental health battle also.

And it might not be you, it might be your family needs to talk to somebody.

But it is a challenge when it's an employee because you're not quite sure.

You know, maybe you are a person who works with them and they're looking a little rough now.

I mean, some of it's going to be obvious, right?

But you cannot flat out say what is going on.

You know, that is just.

You can't do that.

But you want them to know that your door is open, that they can talk to you.

If you're a coworker, you know, maybe gently what can I help you with?

Are there some tasks that I can be doing?

Things like that just, I think, more than anything, again, let them know they're not alone.

Yeah, that's good.

So let's get back to the professionals, the high performing ones.

You know, we often want to kind of grind our way through difficult times, sometimes even over functioning.

What are the first three adjustments you recommend for leaders navigating the diagnosis and treatment of cancer?

First, you need to take an assessment of your business, you know, and have.

And a lot of what you're going to be looking at is something that you should have been looking at anyway.

You know, do you have plans in place, you know, what they call business continuity plans.

So if something happens to any senior executive, their tasks can be taken over.

You know, who knows who has all that information?

You know, do people know who you bank with?

You know, all of those various things and you, you should have those.

Now, typically they're in our head, right.

Unless you are a large organization that has this as, as a fairly formal process and then, you know, figure out what you're going to tell people.

You want to control that message.

You, you know, you want to be in charge of it.

But you do need to understand, you need to say something because we don't like a vacuum.

And if you don't say anything, the employees, the staff, the clients, your business associates are going to make things up.

And the problem is we don't make them up in a good way.

Right.

We're going to say, oh, he's looking a little rough.

How much is he drinking at night?

No, things like that.

And now you don't have to tell them everything.

You know, I've been very open, but that has been very deliberate.

Now, am I sharing everything?

No, still not.

But you know, you can say I'm going through something from in with my health.

I'll keep you posted as much as I can.

But I'm going to need your help.

And your staff, your employees had better say, what can we do?

Because if they don't, you might not want to have them on your staff.

And you know, because, and you know, obviously it depends on the business and all of those various things.

But yeah, if you say I need a little help, if they don't step up, you know, or give you a reason they're not stepping up, then, you know, really think about it.

And then I think the other thing is to remember you are not alone on this journey.

You might need to reach out to, to other peer groups.

There are, you know, Certainly lots of support groups.

There are several that are very specific for men because women like to share and we like to, you know, all those things.

But, but there are some, some cancer support groups that are very specific to men.

You might need, as I was kind of saying, some mental health.

You know, this, you're grieving, you're angry, all of those various things.

So kind of take stock.

But then as part of that, think about what your priorities are.

They're probably gonna change, you know, and, and, and go forward.

Know that if it's five days, if it's 50 years, you can deal with it.

So you're coaching someone who's going through this.

You have to help them decide, what do I pause, what do I delegate?

And what are the things only I can do myself?

How do you have that conversation with an executive going through this?

First thing is make them write it down.

What do you do every day?

And how long does it take you?

Now I own my own business.

I am a redhead.

I am a type A. I did not know what the word delegate was, you know, and it's still hard for me because in many cases, it's just easier to do it myself.

Right.

Than to explain to somebody how to do it.

Oh, I'll just do it, you know, but think about what can be delegated.

But more importantly, think about how you're going to be empowering those that work with you.

You hired them for a reason.

They're smart, they're talented, they've got all of those skills.

So let's give them that chance to really shine.

I think one of the biggest fears that we have is that they're going to go, ooh, we really don't need you.

Right.

And I get that.

But at the same point, okay, maybe I, you know, because the goal is that long term, they continue those things.

You might actually be able to go on vacation, you know, things like that.

But, you know, think about what you can be doing with that free time, you know, and, and, and, you know, AI, I think, is going to start playing a bigger and bigger role in some of these things.

You know, responding to emails, doing all sorts of things.

And so, you know, things are going to change that way.

But yeah, you know, you got into your business because you had a passion for it, hopefully.

So now you're freed up to maybe focus more on that passion or on other things.

You know, maybe you're going to volunteer, maybe you're going to get out of the business.

Totally, you know, whatever it is.

But think about, you know, how you're going to do all of those things.

So communication is critical in most organizations.

We either do it well or we build trust or we either build confusion.

There are some key people, I think, that to be informed of what's going on in your, in your business.

Who are those people?

I'm cutting up a bit.

I can't, I can't hear you.

Oh.

Who are those key people in the organization communication chain that you have to connect with?

You know, you'll know if you're oversharing.

People will kind of get the uncomfortable look, right?

The, ooh, I really didn't want to know, you know, and, and, and.

But some people want to know every single detail.

My mother was one of those people, right.

She wanted to know every single.

And then she wanted to share it with everybody.

But, you know, start with telling them the minimum, and then if they need to know more.

And it's going to vary also how much you tell as to who you're telling.

Your executive team needs to know more.

The people that are a little bit further down the, the, the job, you know, the, the company, they don't need to know nearly as much.

So, you know, but it also might be that you've got some folks there that are going to be some of your best advocates and some of your best support system.

But, yeah, you'll know if you're oversharing, because people really will get that uncomfortable stare at their shoes look, you know, and so it's, you know, it is.

It's tricky, you know, and, but yeah, just think.

And maybe think about it from the reverse.

What would you want to know?

You don't need to know every detail, but you need to know.

Okay, they have to leave at noon every Thursday.

So what are we gonna do Thursday afternoon?

We're not gonna party.

We're gonna, you know, keep functioning and, you know, all those things.

So, yeah, think about if you were learning this.

What would you wanna know?

I love that.

So you're a certified integrative cancer coach.

What does that mean?

So when I decided to be a cancer coach, I didn't want it.

My business coach pushed me into it, and she kept telling me that I didn't go through everything I went through without using it to help others.

And, And I, But I didn't want to be cancer girl, you know, I wanted to go back to living my normal life, but I realized that I helped people anyway, you know, and, And I mean, that was just something that was, was happening.

So I started, you know, I went back to Google this time it was a good thing and really couldn't find cancer coach.

I think I found like 10.

And so my thought process was, well, either there's no demand for it, so it's a waste of my time, or maybe it's so new.

And I decided it was new.

And so then I started researching what programs were out there.

And there's always the $30 program.

Right.

You know, you take, you know, and, and, and that's okay.

I've done some of the other classes through those.

I mean they're, they're great for things like that there.

I also found several that are, were very, very detailed and part of say a psychology degree or even at, at a med school.

Well, that wasn't what I wanted to do either.

And so I finally found this great organization called the Cancer Wellness Institute and I took a very detailed 12 week program with them.

And, and we still, we meet every month and, and you know, plus all sorts of other things.

And I really learned a lot of.

Some of it was reinforcing what I already knew, but other parts were, you know, oh, I'd never thought of it that way, or how do we help somebody through that situation.

Now I'm kind of the only one there that is dealing with people from a business perspective.

You know, I am a marketing person and I know that I need to niche and so, you know, I go with my people.

Right.

But it's all the same, you know, how can we help people through what might be one of their most difficult journeys they ever faced?

You know, and like I said, you're grieving, you're angry, all of those things and you know, over and over and over again.

And then there's always that, what if it comes back?

You know, we might make it through, but how are we going to deal with that?

One of the terms a lot of people use is scanxiety.

You have a scan and until you know the results, you're thinking the worst.

Right.

Even though, you know, you, there was no reason for it, it was a checkup or whatever.

You're still thinking the what ifs.

And so how do you deal with that?

How do you kind of deal with that constant elephant in the room?

Um, you know, and, and that was a lot of what we talked about in the, in the program that I went through.

So in your work, where does faith and meaning and purpose fit into what you do with your clients?

You know, I want people to know they can get through this.

You know, whether it's that they are, like I said, you know, Maybe they just have five hours.

You know, maybe they've got a very long time, but how are they going to get through it?

And especially from a business perspective, you know, how are you going to maintain your leadership, your authority?

Is your business going to survive?

And maybe you decide you don't want it to.

I mean, you know, that's.

That's one of the things.

Or that you're going to turn it over to somebody else, things like that.

And I think that is kind of a different perspective, because as a business leader, that's our baby, Right?

You know, if we started that company, we want to make sure that it is healthy and active and happy and going on forever.

And so it is a big concern for us.

It's also a lot of our time.

I joke that hospitals have good wifi.

And same with doctor's offices.

I'm always sitting in the doctor's office responding to emails.

You know, if it's.

If I'm there longer, I've got my laptop and I might be working on a proposal or something like that.

Now, part of that is it gives me something to think about, right?

To focus my energy on.

And some people are like, nope, I need to not be doing this.

I'm going to take a sabbatical.

I'm going to focus 100% on my health.

Whatever works, you know, works for you.

But, yeah, we want our businesses to continue.

And so how do you do that?

And it really is that delegating, that, empowering, that planning, really, you know, you know, just those simple things that we should have been taught that we really weren't.

Tell us the heart behind trying not to die.

What's on your platform?

What do you offer?

So that name came from my mother.

And so I.

My mother has passed away almost two years ago to the day.

I saw that on Facebook, because I don't really remember dates like that.

And two years ago today was my last conversation with her.

And it was one of the funniest conversations we'd had had in a really long time.

And so it was the perfect thing, right?

But she came out.

She lives in Kansas and I'm in Atlanta.

And when I was circling the drain, of course she came out, right?

And it was great.

She came, she stayed.

I was never alone in my hospital room.

She was there.

My husband was there.

Somebody was always there.

But I remember one time, one of my wonderful medical staff came and went, and I got the disapproving mother face.

And I went, what?

And she said, you did not say thank you.

And I Went, oh, for God's sakes, Mom, I'm trying to not die here.

And that was, you know, that really was it.

I was thinking, you know, this, you know, and I don't have time to be polite, but when I was thinking about what to name it, I really did think we get so caught up in trying to not die that we forget that we have to live.

And live is actually an acronym, and it is the website URL.

You know, that's the cool thing about websites now.

You can kind of give them whatever name you want.

But, you know, and even if we don't have anything seriously affecting our health, sometimes we're just kind of plugging along, right?

We're not really thinking, how are we going to live this life?

You know, I tell people, I don't want my headstone to say, I wish I would have.

I love that.

What are two frameworks you can teach clients to start using this week?

We're dealing with this.

Figure out what it is that you do and can you delegate it?

And more importantly, figure out why you do it.

Is it because you don't trust anybody else to do it?

Hello, that's me.

Or, you know, or you're the control freak, or is it just that you've never thought, hey, I can have somebody else do this?

And I think you'll discover that there are many things that, granted, AI can probably take over now, or you have other staff, or maybe they don't even need to be done, right?

How many times are we working on stuff that really don't need to be done, you know, and so be thinking about that.

But more importantly, think about how you want to be living your life.

Get rid of the toxic people.

You know, right now is a really tough time to be alive in a lot of ways.

Right?

But look for those good things and tell people that you love them.

You know, I had a. I.

You know, a little bit ago, an hour or so, I had a zoom call with a friend of mine, and we ended by saying, I love you.

She's a friend.

You know, 10 years ago, we would have never done that.

It's okay.

You know, and for a guy, it can be, love you, dude.

Love you, man.

Right?

That's all right.

But, yeah, tell people that and.

Or, you know, say thank you.

Just be grateful.

I think that's the thing that we always forget is how can we be grateful?

I gave you a lot more than two right there, but they all kind of tie together.

No, I love those.

What does resilience mean to you?

Now, compared to before your cancer.

Now, I think a big part of it is really realizing what the priorities are, you know, and knowing I can get through it.

I can.

You know, I. I had doctors saying I was gonna die within three hours, and they were not gonna do the surgery that needed to be done.

Why bother?

You know, and it was like, really?

Yeah.

And, you know, I can hear y' all out in the hall having that discussion, but, you know, I think we do.

Resilience is also figuring what is important, what do I need to keep doing, and how am I going to get there, and who am I going to ask to help me?

You know, I was very much a lone duck.

Now, granted, you know, my husband and I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him, but, you know, it was very much going life alone.

Resilience is how can we get through this life the best possible way.

So what's one myth about cancer in the workplace?

You want to retire?

It's not the end.

You know, it might, you know, it might end up, you know, ending things, but that's not how you're going to end.

You get to choose that, you know, and.

And.

And really, your business can go on without you.

Or maybe not.

But, you know, it's also.

I think a big part of it is we need to get back to focusing on ourselves, you know, and.

And, you know, and, and.

And so it's not the end.

It is.

You know, a lot of people say it's the beginning.

I have.

I have people who tell me all the time, was this a blessing?

Yes.

That sounds really weird, right?

I've had 34 surgical procedures in 10 years, but I'm still grateful.

My scars have scars, but I wouldn't be here if I didn't have my scars.

But in business, really, it is a business.

If it stops, it stops.

It's not the end of the world.

Focus on what's really important.

Sounds like a book there.

My scars have scars.

I know they do.

So what's one boundary every patient and.

Or caregiver should set early on in this process?

I think the boundary is making sure that people know that you are the person who's in charge.

You as the patient, the survivor, the thriver, the warrior, the whatever the heck you're going to call yourself, you are in charge, you know, and don't let them cross that boundary.

And it gets.

Especially, you know, we all have that fear of those white coats with the stethoscopes, right?

They went to school for a bazillion years, and they're really smart.

No, you are in charge, and you need to make sure that they know that and push back.

You know, if they say, we want you to do X, tell them no, you know, or say, yes, you know, or we need more information.

In my oncologist's office, they have a sign in every room.

Do not leave this room if your questions have not been answered.

And remember that they work for you.

You don't work for them.

You know, and make sure that they know that it works.

Also with your staff, with, you know, everybody.

You're the one in charge, nobody else.

What's one small daily practice that made a big difference for you?

Gratitude.

You know, really thinking about, what am I grateful for today?

And I'll be honest, sometimes it's that I woke up, you know, and.

But, you know, what are we grateful for?

It doesn't have to be something big.

And, you know, we all think, ooh, gratitude.

You know, I mean, and.

And I don't have a gratitude journal, you know, I know a lot of people do, and they absolutely love them.

I just don't need to write it down.

But, yeah, what are you grateful for?

And really think about that.

And it can be something little, you know, maybe, you know, sometimes it was, I didn't get sick today.

Right.

You know, but, yeah, gratitude, I think, is the biggest thing that I really try and do every day.

Do I?

No.

But I try to.

So I'm going to ask you my other favorite question.

What do you want your legacy to be?

That I helped people.

It's just that simple.

That's powerful.

So I'm going to ask you.

On the show, we have a new thing, a surprise question.

Pick a number between 1 and 10 for your surprise question.

7.

What was the worst job you've ever had?

The worst job I ever had.

I had to now.

It was kind of a fun job, but it was also.

The tasks I had to do were icky.

I worked for the forest service, and I had to clean porta potties.

That was not fun.

No,.

No, it doesn't sound like fun.

So, Deb, where can people connect with you on social media?

Give us your website again, and how to best find you.

Well, again, thank you so much.

And the one thing that we didn't talk about is faith is really what gets a lot of people through this and make sure there were times where I wouldn't let them take me off to surgery until the pastor had been in and things like that.

So rely on your faith.

Have faith in yourself.

I think that's the other thing.

But, yeah, trying not to die.

Live is the website and your cancer coach.

Live is the coaching program.

I'm actually only on LinkedIn and Facebook because Squirrel.

Right.

I'd go down those rabbit holes and you'd never find me again.

So, you know those two.

Look, there's only three Deb careers in the world, so I'm pretty easy to find, you know, and I am, I think, the only redhead, so it's pretty easy to find me.

Well, thank you.

You're so right about that.

Faith gets us through so much of life.

Oftentimes it is.

People sometimes look at it as it's the last resort.

It should be the first resort that we have to get through difficulty.

But for those who rely on that, it is a powerful.

I love your story because it reminds us that, yes, the doctors in the White coast experts are not the ones who are truly in charge.

God is.

Yes, I say I am, but.

Yeah, I know.

But really, God is and reminds us of that all the time.

But Deb, thank you so much for.

Oh, thank you.

This has been an honor.

Yeah.

Thank you for your courage and for sharing your story, for your faith journey, your clarity.

Your journey reminds us that leadership and faith isn't just what we do when life is smooth.

It's who we become when the stakes are real.

Friends, if this conversation spoke to you or someone you love, connect with Deb and explore.

Trynottodie Live for coaching, community and resources that blend compassion and practical strategies.

Share this episode with a leader or caregiver HR partner who wants to build a culture that supports people and performance.

Start a conversation in your team or small group and ask this question.

How can we show up wisely, kindly and consistently for colleagues walking through cancer?

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Follow and rate it for us and share with someone who needs to be filled with hope in their situation.

Deb, thanks again so much for your joy and for your faith.

Thank you so much.