Control Your Construction Costs with Mike Merrill

Episode 83 • 26th April 2023 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries

Intro/Outro:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

Todd Miller:

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. And today my co-host is Ethan Young. Ethan, welcome to the microphone today.

Ethan Young:

: 00:00:28

Thanks, Todd. I'm excited to be back co-hosting again. Usually I'm on the on the other side of things with the camera and audio and stuff, so always good to be doing this.

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:37

Cool, well glad to have you. And of course, we are once again in this episode doing our challenge words and our guest, who is yet to be revealed. Our guest is participating as well. And so just for our audience, reminder, the challenge words are words that each one of us has been given on the show to try to work into the conversation as naturally and seamlessly as we possibly can. And then you all can be listening to see if you can pick up on what our challenge words were. And at the end of the show, we'll clue you in on whether we were successful or not. So I kind of have a sad story, Ethan. A friend of mine made a big mistake and didn't pay his exorcist.

Ethan Young:

: 00:01:25

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:26

He got repossessed. Okay, so I got a question for you.

Ethan Young:

: 00:01:33

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:34

Why did the man name his dogs Rolex and Timex?

Ethan Young:

: 00:01:40

Rolex and Timex. Oh, okay, I think I know what this is. Are they, were they watchdogs?

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:46

They were watchdogs. I knew you'd get that one. Well, good stuff. So let's go forward on with this show and we will reveal who our mystery guest is. Today's guest is Mike Merrill, co-founder and chief evangelist of About Time Technologies. Their WorkMax platform is all about tracking and managing a mobile workforce as well as assets, forms and productivity, all in one all-inclusive solution. Additionally, of course, Mike is actually no stranger to the other side of the microphone himself as the host of the Mobile Workforce podcast. Mike, welcome to Construction Disruption.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:02:29

Thank you. Todd and Ethan, grateful to be on today and looking forward to a lively conversation.

Ethan Young:

: 00:02:34

Awesome. Well, I wanted to start us with asking about your podcast a little bit. We've been, I guess we celebrated a year a few months ago. We've been doing it for a little while. How long have you been doing the podcast?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:02:44

About two and a half years. I think this next week we're releasing our 120th episode.

Ethan Young:

: 00:02:50

Awesome, sweet. Yeah, it's been a, I think for us it's been a really growing experience, a learning experience, just talking to so many different people around the industry and getting perspective on different things. Do you think you have like an episode that's really given you a different perspective or maybe, you know, been really helpful for you?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:03:09

You know, there are so many really good ones. I mean, we try really hard to mix it up, but I would say, I mean, even even the ones we released a couple of weeks ago. We had a a roofing contractor, Charles Antis with Antis Roofing and Waterproofing out of California on. And I've known Charles for a couple of years but I really got to know him well at a couple of conferences towards the end of last year and he was a keynote. And I was just so impressed with just the kindness and the generosity that he has not just towards his industry peers and people that he interacted with at the event, but in hearing his story and learning what he does as he serves customers and even more importantly, and more near and dear to his heart, not to get too sentimental, but to his community. And so, big into Ronald McDonald House, big into Habitat for Humanity. I mean he talked about on, we, in fact, it was so good we did two episodes because there was just too much to uncover and I need to have it back on. But he was talking about the work they do with Ronald McDonald House and again, they, for one of the quarters, I think this last year they actually donated their Q4 profits to charity.

Ethan Young:

: 00:04:31

That's pretty impressive, yeah.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:04:31

My goodness. So you know, I just, when you have people on like that, you just can't help but be inspired and motivated to do a little bit more extra yourself and to be more aware of those that might be in need and that are less fortunate that you might be able to give a hand to.

Todd Miller:

: 00:04:47

Good stuff. Well, Charles is certainly a big force in our industry. No doubt about it, good guy.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:04:53

Yeah, he is great.

Todd Miller:

: 00:04:54

Well, I have to say, Mike, you certainly seem to be a very busy guy. I mean, I can imagine someone trying to keep up with business and all the things you do and just picturing this guy so busy at the same time, they're trying to fold a thousand origami swans or something. I don't know how you do it all. But throughout your career and your life, you're always committed to helping others be more efficient and to do more at a higher quality level. So I know that your career started out in the construction industry, which obviously is where our audience lives. But what did you see happening in the construction industry that drove you to develop the WorkMax platform?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:05:36

Yeah, that's a great question. So, yeah, about 30-plus years ago, I got into construction. So just, you know, like summers in high school and, you know, after I graduated and I immediately fell in love with the trades and with actually building things, I had no experience prior other than like high school woodshop or metal shop. I didn't know what a two by four stud was. I didn't know what a 16 penny nail was. I just had no background in it whatsoever. But I was dating a girl whose father was a general contractor and he would always, you know, razzed me about joining his crew and, you know, coming out and helping him frame some houses. And so I, I finally took him up on the offer and just immediately was enamored with the opportunity to actually build something that was going to stand over the course of maybe even 100 years and be there and be a lasting legacy of the work that I did. And I wasn't used to that. And so I, I just loved it and immersed myself in it. And a few years later started my own contracting business. And in doing that, I had an employee from, you know, my early days and starting my company that went off on his own. And we remained friends and did projects together. And as we continue to grow our businesses, that growth spurred on this obvious gap in the tools that we had to really run our business efficiently. And that was paper time cards and, you know, trying to track hours and production and try and keep ahead of of, you know, where you're out on your project based on budget and when you're committed to be done. And it was just such a problem that often you were three or four weeks behind in your reporting and into where you really were. And it just seemed like, you know, there was more jobs left at the end of the money than money left at the end of the job. And so this friend of mine, Ryan Remkes, who's my partner and our CEO here, had his best friend since kindergarten, was a programmer. And he said, you know, couldn't we write something to just track, you know, like a mobile clock or some way like on a Palm Pilot to have the guys clock it out on a project. And so his friend says, Oh, yeah, of course, you know, and no problem, yeah, we could do something. Even in a few months, we could probably have something done. And so he got all excited about it and shared with me this idea they had. And he said, You know, I think we're really on to something. Maybe after we get going a little bit. Love to see if you're interested in getting involved. And so we kept that conversation alive. And, you know, a few months later, Ryan and then his best friend, Cory Tanner, and then his cousin Russ Hanson, who is also a programmer, and I all partnered up together. That was 2003 Now, so that was 20 years ago when those conversations started. And we've been in the market and selling for 18 to 19 years now. And so it was eating our own dog food, living that challenge and struggle that, you know, made it something that seemed like it'd be worthwhile to actually fix this major headache that we had. And everybody that we talked to, everybody we knew where they were all complaining about the same thing. So we thought, you know, this is a real problem and someone's got to fix it. Why not us?

Todd Miller:

: 00:09:02

So what would you boil down those key problems to that you know, you folks really help to solve?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:09:08

Well, at the beginning it was really just about that time and labor for payroll. And what we, you know, we did, we solved it pretty quickly. I mean, we had, I remember one of our, he was like our fifth or sixth customer, a plumbing contractor down in the Phoenix area. And he called us on the phone and was talking about this. And he's like, man, you guys are really onto something. I mean, this is crazy. I don't think you know how powerful this is. And like, no we do. That's why we've been working on this for a year and a half. But he just couldn't believe that nobody had solved it and he thought it was the greatest thing he'd ever seen in his 40-year career. And so, you know, we just knew we were onto something special. And so as we got more customers and solved more problems and got introduced to other challenges that maybe I didn't run into in framing homes or building custom homes, but maybe an electrical contractor or an excavator or a bridge and heavy highway builder, you know would express their concerns and issues, tracking equipment and tools. And then, well, couldn't they fill out a survey or an inspection list? You know, we need to document our project and take photos and videos. And then it was, okay, we got all this awesome data. How do we report on it and have, you know, bar graphs and pie charts and visibility? And so we just continued to innovate and adapt. And originally our software was just server-based. It was installed on a PC or a server hosted locally for all of our customers. And then, you know, seven or eight years ago, about 2015, 2016, we started working on a brand new rewrite of what was called AboutTime Enterprise, and that's what is known as the WorkMax cloud platform. And so we redid you know, people say, if you could do it all over, what would you do? Well, that's what we did. We rewrote it all in the cloud in the most modern technology. And today, you know, we've, most of those customers that were using our other product have migrated over. And we, you know, everything we've sold new for five or six years is on this cloud platform. And this is really powerful to be able to log in from your cell phone on a beach and look at what's going on, you know, on your projects.

Todd Miller:

: 00:11:27

You know, I have to imagine as you talk to prospective clients, you kind of get an initial reaction from some folks that sort of like, you know, I don't know if I have the bandwidth to to think about one more thing. So how do you get them over that hurdle so that they see that, gosh, this is something that in the end is going to be well worth it for me?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:11:47

Yeah, that's a great question. And it's gotten easier over time. When we first came out with the market, it was a real, man, it was a real sales job to get people to think, Oh yeah, that's a great idea. Let me put a computer in my excavator's hands. Oh, let's give one to the guy with the shovel too. You know, it didn't make sense to a lot of companies, but we we actually partnered with Otterbox. They were just a cigar caddy company for fly fisherman at the time. They came out with one little case for the PDA, is what it was called, the Palm Pilot. And we put one of those on every single one of our devices. In fact, for a long time, we were Otterbox's largest client. We were about the same size company as them at the time.

Ethan Young:

: 00:12:32

Interesting.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:12:33

So it was, but it was cool because we had to ruggedize that technology so that our customers would actually feel comfortable using it. But what happened after that, and people started to get used to, you know, BlackBerry came out onto the market and all of a sudden people were, you know, getting and receiving and sending emails out in the field. And so technology became more embraced. And it got to the point where people realized, you know, these guys are not trying to add one more thing on the pile, but we're actually taking five or six things off the pile, putting them in one that's very efficient and that through technology, we're moving that data to those other systems so that the manual entry and the manual keying and that manual decision-making doesn't have to happen now. And so I actually have six or eight hours left at the end of my week that I've never seen before. And then the stack of paper on my desk is half the size.

Todd Miller:

: 00:13:36

You know, it's interesting for me to think about this, how quickly technology changes because I haven't thought about my PalmPilot in years. Yet, you're telling me that was just 20 years ago. It wasn't that long ago in the relative scheme, but yet it seems light years ago. And so you really were in the very early stages of everything.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:13:56

Yeah, yeah, by true definition, we we were pioneers. I mean, we truly invented a lot of what we were doing because there wasn't anybody to copy and there's nobody doing it. So how do you know what to do? Well, what would you do if you were contract and you needed something to do this? What would it need to look like? And so that's what we did. We basically took what an ATM screen showed you with a PIN number and put it on the PalmPilot. And then when you put the pin number in, just like on your ATM and you pick, you know what what kind of transaction do you want? Well, we're going to clock in. Okay, now that you've clocked in, on your ATM you pick which account. Now, what do you want to do? Do you want to do a withdrawal? You want to do a deposit? So we would say, oh, we're going to install metal roofing is the cost code of the task. And then as soon as they pick that, well, now the clock's ticking in the background. And so now we're watching the clock and they can focus on their work. And, you know, eventually, you know, we've always done well and we bootstrapped it from the beginning. We didn't take on money or do anything to grow our business to where it is. You know, we have over a million people use our software and, you know, field workers and office people and project managers and owners. We have, you know, all kinds of companies and every trade, every industry. And it's just been amazing to see the impact that it has. And these are, it's not just tooting the horn of what we do specifically, but we're solving high-dollar problems that are really, really they're very costly when you don't do a good job of doing some of these things. And so it's not realistic for us to hear companies come back and tell us that they've saved over $1,000,000 in their first year of using the system. And so it's impactful.

Todd Miller:

: 00:15:49

I was going to say that has to be surprising to them. And, you know, that was going to be one of my questions. So as as contractors start to use WorkMax and start to load their data into it, what are some of the really surprising things that they learn that, you know, really become game-changers for them?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:16:07

I think the biggest thing that, the headache that we hear, you know, companies are doing like certified payroll or they're in a union or they have special, you know, government work or projects that are hard to track or certain reporting requirements. There's usually so many manual steps that surround those things that the fact that we can automate a lot of that and set that up so that there's a workflow with that data. And then ultimately, and this is the big thing everybody wants solved, we integrate with over 100, it's like literally over 100 third-party systems like accounting and payroll and HR, estimating or areas where that data that we're collecting needs to go somewhere else and we can automate that. And maybe there's another like an ERP or a project management system where they house all their jobs in their data, where they move those bids into, Okay, we won the project now, now we've got to get this thing set up. We're tapping into those systems of pulling that data into WorkMax. So they're, they've got the guy with the shovel in the field, and we even have Spanish language capability for the field guys. So if they clock in and they prefer Spanish, their navigation on the screen, everything's translated for them. And so there's the intimidation factor goes away. And then at the end of the day, you essentially have you know, every employee in the field is actually getting that data for you from the source in real time as it happens, and sharing that with their management team and the management team approves it. And that data moves to payroll and job costs and accounting. So you collect it once at the source when it happens, which is when it's most likely to be 100% accurate. And then you have, you know, fences like a geofence, a digital geofence around your project with GPS. So we will flag those records that are not logged in the right place, that they're putting cost to a job they're not on. WorkMax is going to tap your admin on the shoulder or the project manager and say, Oh, they're billing this the wrong job. And then we have facial recognition, so if someone's trying to put time in for their buddy, well that that will only ever happen once because our system identifies that we actually have a patent on our facial recognition. So the way we do, it's built for construction. It's in the cloud. It works offline, so you don't have to have a signal for our stuff to function. So just I'd say the cocktail of those types of things that make it so that easily somebody can track all that data and it goes where it's supposed to and there's not this big manual intervention. And it doesn't take an army of people to mess with and touch the data to get it to a timecard and to a report to where I know every single day where I'm at. Instead of trying to figure it out, you know, weeks or months later.

Ethan Young:

: 00:19:05

And I was going to say to you, I think you brought up a great point. With a service like that, the more inputs, the more like different third party services you can connect. It really just, it helps the whole thing go gangbusters. Like it just it works so smoothly with the more inputs you get, especially on that scale, I guess.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:19:20

Yeah. And when you're the the biggest, like we had one customer, a really large customer down in the Dallas area. I just came back, I mentioned earlier, I'm busy. I just came back from the Roofing Expo literally today. I got up at 5:30 this morning Central Time and I was back at my desk by 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time ready for this podcast. So bouncing all. And then Monday morning I drive down to Las Vegas and I'll be at the Con Expo from Tuesday to Saturday. So, you know, busy, busy, busy schedule. But back to the question. It's like, you know, we're at this customer's down in Mesquite, Texas, is where they were. And when we started doing their implementation and we got our integration guys and you know, our project team involved, they went through their cost code list and these guys are in drywall, interior construction. They had over 77,000 cost codes in their accounting system. And when they had to keep everything and standardize it down to one real test and they hadn't done this in like 30 years, it's like 30 years of, oh, this is called drywall. Oh, I call it sheetrock. Oh, I call it dry space wall. Oh, I call it dry desk wall. Oh, I call it, you know, Capital D, you know, whatever way that people were selling it. Well, those systems don't have a way to merge it to recognize, oh, this one, this, this one cost code is explained 14 different ways depending on who puts it in. Well, the system doesn't recognize it. So your reports are off, the data doesn't match. So they had to re-key everything. Well, they boiled it down and it was barely over a thousand. So 77,000 different ways to say 1000 things. So WorkMax takes the real list, the only list, and distributes that to everybody to choose from. And so there's 100% data integrity so there's no chance for a typo or fat fingering something. I mean, it just it's like a hand going back in the glove that it came from. Like it just fits and everything's good. And so it's just a really cool thing that we can help companies that maybe aren't so sophisticated to have a system like that, too, where man their, you know, they're minding their P's and Q's, even if they don't mean to, because, you know, WorkMax helps them to do that.

Todd Miller:

: 00:21:42

So I'm curious, not necessarily the contractors, your users, but their customers, the property owners, the clients.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:21:51

Mm hmm.

Todd Miller:

: 00:21:51

Are there any benefits that they receive from their contractor using WorkMax?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:21:57

Oh, man, there sure are. So we've had it happen many times where an owner will actually mandate and say, okay, everybody's getting on this. Because the reports I'm getting now that I have visibility and that we can we can make it so that that owner can actually log in through the cloud and see just their projects and they could just see what they need to see what pertains to them. And we've had insurance vendors and carriers mandate that on this loss or this claim that these need to be used. We were in a huge mine project. There was a seismic event with the earthquake, big slide in, and a huge copper mine. And we had ,there were over 6,000 subcontractors that were working on that. They all used our system because it was the system of record to report the data, because otherwise when you've got insurance involved and owners and other people's money, they want to make sure that you're tracking that appropriately and that you're not overbilling or that you're not mis-billing or even whether it's intentional or not, you know, overbilling or again, just not managing that money like they would if it was their own money. And so WorkMax, allows companies to manage the money like it's theirs, and in most cases it is. But when an owner gets a bill or it's a change order or a work order or an extra, and I can show you that. Maybe you bill to the nearest, you know, half hour or whatever. But when you see it's 143 hours and 13 minutes of total time on that project for this crew to come out and do this. I mean, you have instant confidence and I have I've literally heard this over 100 times in 20 years where people say, now that WorkMax is in place, now instead of an argument, when I send an invoice in for changes or extras, I just get a check instead of an argument. They just pay me. You know, there's no discussion because I just send the WorkMax report that's like to the minute or two or rounded to the nearest 15 or whatever it is. And when it shows that three of the 14 guys were 15 or 20 or 30 minutes late and two of the guys did stay 15 minutes extra, but it's billed and documented like that. And then they say, Oh, you're using GPS and face recognition. They just have confidence in that data. So they feel better about paying those invoices versus ones that are just whipped up in some office and, you know, in a fancy Excel sheet that it's super simple to tack an extra zero somewhere if you want to.

Todd Miller:

: 00:24:34

This is fascinating technology you're using and very much cutting edge stuff. I'm curious, what do you see on the horizon out there coming up technology-wise that may further increase contractor efficiency?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:24:48

And yeah, I mean, I know there's a lot of you know, in the you know, there's a lot of like jobsite cameras and things like that that people are using. I think more interconnectivity between a system like WorkMax, and other systems, not just the typical integrations that we have, but other things where, you know, the material ordering system can talk to what we're doing. So it's not, we're not we're tracking labor and productivity, how many units were put in and how many hours, and what does that trend look like? But connecting that to the material and maybe ordering systems and their systems out there, that could auto-order when your inventory gets to a certain point. And so automating that side of things with our data and merging the two, I mean, you have got ever everything you need. I mean, the project and those those processes could virtually run themselves and now you're just managing the exceptions or the things that are outside of the lines as opposed to having to deal with every headache, every day, you know, all the time.

Todd Miller:

: 00:25:50

Right. So what are your thoughts as far as the risks that contractors take upon themselves, that they simply refuse to pursue technology? I mean, is this a must for everyone? Are there some folks who will get by just fine without it in the long run?.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:26:07

There are some that keep trying, but we, same thing, we get calls every week that people are in an audit and they've got, you know, whether it's a work comp audit or payroll, you know, the state payroll agency or their union. I mean, there's all these different government or, you know, other oversight agencies that require documentation. And, you know, some states are very, you know, state of California, you know, their overtime rules and some of the things that they require for breaks WorkMax can manage. All those things so we can ensure that breaks are taken and that they're signed off, that they were taken, affirmations, attestations. Because there's things we could do in that workflow so that companies are documenting properly. That's the biggest gap I see everywhere. It's the documentation. It's having that valid approval and sign off on a daily basis and maybe at the end of the week to to say, yeah, this time card's correct, these are my hours. But when you get an audit and you have time stamped to-the-minute records and facial recognition and validating and physical signatures on a touchscreen smart device on a daily basis that the breaks were taken. You know, these were my hours. I did have my toolbox talk. We just, we document all of it and it just happens. You don't have to think it up and imagine what you need to do. We just have settings in our system. And so when a guy clocks in, inevitably he's got to answer these questions and when they clock out, they have to answer these questions or it won't let them clock out. So if they have hours in the system and you have requirements, they were all math and you can prove it and it was that guy. And so the fact that you validate everything you do as you go. I've had lots of companies say, you know, gosh, we were in compliance because of your system and we didn't know it. We didn't know the rules, but we were keeping them because your system has a process to make sure that that those things are all in place. And so they were just doing what seemed like a sensible, responsible thing to do, not because they thought they were having to, you know, follow some specific set of rules.

Ethan Young:

: 00:28:21

Yeah, I was going to say, just even for accountability's sake, you know, that's just such a massive like having that system put in place, like you were saying, instead of just kind of relying on whatever, you know, company-by-company basis having that set up.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:28:36

Yeah, and the other real challenge and this, it's interesting, I mean, we talk on the Mobile Workforce podcast a lot about, how you know, the construction industry is, you know, a laggard. Historically only only ahead of agriculture and farming. But unfortunately, listeners, this last year they pulled ahead of us. So we're behind now, we're the last in line at adopting technology. So that is another surprising thing to me is, you know, some of the companies that we work with are so progressive. I mean, they are, they're way ahead. I mean, they're more technical than a bank or they do some really cool stuff. They have programmers, engineers on staff that are, you know, actually writing code to run their business more efficiently. And they're a highway, you know, bridge builder. But they've invested in in their business in that way. Yet their competitor that might be the same size or larger right next door they're still on paper and spreadsheets. So there's so much disparity between from one business to the next that I think, you know, the thing we're seeing and that we're excited about is that the connectivity of systems like ours and with, you know, an ERP and estimating project manager and other systems is really exciting. Because there's an opportunity to now maybe take ten or eleven different systems and boil it down to like three or four. And so we're underperforming on adoption as an industry. There are a lot of companies like ours that are in the tech space that have tried to develop a solution. And so now there's so many different systems that there's almost an overcorrecting and an overload, and there's kind of a bloat of, you know, too many apps that do, you know, overlapping things. And everybody says all we want the accounting system to be the one to do the mobile stuff. And it's just, they're just not any good at it. None of them, like zero. I don't I mean, I don't run into any that are really, really solving things the way that we do or the way that we hear customers want them to be solved. And so it's like, you know, let's just get the best-of-breed solutions and make them communicate with each other, have true Web-to-Web API integrations so that our our databases are talking and help these contractors get focused on winning new bids and being more profitable on the ones that they want.

Todd Miller:

: 00:31:10

So I'm kind of curious what the process looks like for a contractor or someone to get up and running with WorkMax. I think most business owners have gone through this process before, you know, of they sign up for this this new app or this new platform or whatever it might be. And, you know, they sign the check, they sign the contract, and they don't understand that that's just the beginning of making this thing happen. And some of them get embroiled in this stuff where now I got to hire a third party integrator to help me make this thing happen. So what does that process look like to bring WorkMax into a company? What support services do you folks offer training and so forth?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:31:53

Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, this has evolved quite a bit over time. Of course, you know, 20 years ago that required a lot of traveling and on site and getting people in people's offices. And, you know, our customers didn't have the tools to do remote training. They didn't have the technical acumen to be able to take advantage of technology in that way. Even though we were doing web demos ten or fifteen years ago, that was new for some companies. They didn't know how to log in. I mean, you know, obviously with the pandemic and everybody knows Zoom now, everybody knows how to go on a web meeting, right, with a webcam. So that's actually helped our cause and made it easier for us to share what we have with people more, more quickly and with more, I guess, more open-mindedness to it. But but for us, I'd say the last five or six years, we have streamlined this process so much because we've literally done this multiple thousands of times. So everybody thinks, oh yeah, we're different. Nobody understands our workflow. No, but it's like, okay, listen, man, I've, this ain't my first rodeo. You know, we've literally done this thousands of times and everyone we ever help do this, they all said the same thing. And so at a certain point, we we've kind of been there and been through a lot of this stuff. And so we have streamlined that process to where, you know, maybe 2 to 4 weeks for the medium to even large sized customer that can be up and rolling and fully trained. And that could be, I mean, even a really large company, I mean, probably twenty total hours of time and they're like rolling and maybe four of that is like web trainings with field managers. And we always do a train the trainer model. We don't often send people on site anymore. I mean, we're willing to and love to, especially in really large enterprise situations, but it's not required. And so that makes it really efficient. And this might blow your mind in most cases. We can, let's say we get an integrator on with a customer that we've never talked to before. We've never seen their system. We don't know a lot about their business other than what the salesperson was able to uncover and the discovery and in their discussions. And then we present to that. But, you know, our trainer can get on with them. And literally in almost every single case within an hour or two, we have 100% of their accounting and payroll job call system already on their WorkMax system. We have rules and workflow set up with the guys and then as soon as that's set up, in 30 seconds, that device can sync and everything is injected into this phone that's in my pocket and all of that logic and workflow and those rules are embedded. So when I put my pin in this device, knows what it's supposed to show me, knows what I need to see, knows how it's supposed to look. And the cool thing is, is it's taking Chinese and translating into English for these field guys. You know, it's not, you know, it's consolidating it into something that they can understand. And so they don't have to understand the back end of job costing and how pivot table works or spreadsheet or a CSV, they just pick the menu on their screen that's presented to them, which is smart to their role and the jobs are assigned to. And it, you know, they just go to work so they could really just focus on their job instead of the technical side. So because of that, it's very, very quick, even very large, large, like multiple thousands, you know, huge companies. They can be rolled out in a matter of months. I mean, it's not like it takes a year or even six months. It's more what's the customer's target timeline, how much time and resource they have to commit to getting this in place? What deadlines are they working against? Is this for a specific project or do they that they get an audit now? They've really got to fix this as fast as possible. If they need to go fast, we could go super fast and it's not hard and it kind of just makes sense now to where our customers wants to feel guys have a sense of what it is. They just get it and then they just train the new employees as they come on. And it's kind of, just manages itself after that initial phase.

Todd Miller:

: 00:36:18

Wow. Good stuff, I mean it sounds like you've got a really common sense, intuitive sort of interface so that people can pick it up quickly as well. Good stuff. Well, I want to ask you a question, Mike. You've got lots of years experience in our industry, so I'm going to ask you a question we ask most of our guests. A little bit changing gears here a little bit, but a lot of our audience members, we think are pretty early in their careers related to design or construction or remodeling or engineering. What advice would you have for someone just getting started in this industry?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:36:52

I think it's the advice that I would give any young person in life, and that is learn to embrace change, not for the sake of change, but for the sake of progress and learning and expanding what you're doing. Because, you know, while there's there's so many folks in our industry that are you know, these are baby boomers, there's a lot of people retiring and getting ready to retire that have been at this for 20 or 30 years. And they're brilliant people in our industry. They know so much, they've, you know, the joke I've forgotten more than you even know already, you know, by now. So I think young folks need to, you know, drop the ego, open their mind and their ears and their heart, really. And again, not to get sentimental, but really open up their their capacity to understand and really take advantage of that great knowledge that these mentors have for you. And I, you know even the crustiest, roughest crews out there, if somebody comes to them and says, Man, you know, I just really want to learn this stuff. I'm just so anxious to be good at it. And you're amazing, you know so much. Can you teach me?

Ethan Young:

: 00:38:17

Mm hmm.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:38:18

And, I mean, I have seen and heard, and we've had guests on our podcast that take that approach. I mean, you could just see that rigid person, you know, crumble and say, Absolutely, man. Put their arm around this young kid and mentor them. And we've seen that a lot. We hear customers tell stories like that. They try and have a culture that invites that more. So, you know, the young guys just need to, you know, slow down enough to to let that conversation happen. And don't get so ahead of themselves with the tech stuff again, that now they're speaking Chinese to the older field guys that you know they're not as fluent in the tech and so there's just got to be a meeting in the middle. And I think, you know, that comes from the top down and from the bottom up. And so I would just tell young people, be open to change, be be impressionable, be curious and interested, and learn what you can, because you're going so much further, because you're smart and technical. You grew up in that world. But if you could apply some horse sense and some wisdom from veterans that can share with you not just the what or the how, but the why, you're going to be leaps and bounds ahead of your peers that really aren't adopting that approach.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:34

Yeah, it's good stuff and you create a great visual there of of folks working with each other and helping each other. Good stuff. Well, Mike, this has been great. We really are close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things. Really enjoyed this. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to squeeze in here?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:39:53

I would just say and this is again, back to one of the challenges that, you know, you asked this a couple times in a couple of different ways. There are companies that have been forever prospects of what we do, and it doesn't have to be just about our stuff. But, you know, I just encourage the listeners to, you know, if if if nothing changes, nothing changes. So, you know, the definition of insanity, we all know that. Let's do something different and better and just take a little bit of a risk and try something that makes sense, even though you can't see the connection of how you're going to get there, you're afraid your guys can't adopt it. 80% of the companies, this is maybe 75, 75 to 80% of the companies that look at our solution and don't quickly buy, they don't buy anything else. They don't do anything. They go back to paper or spreadsheets or or nine different systems that don't talk to each other, they go back to comfort. So, folks, you know, move your own cheese if you have to. But don't go back to the old ways because it's comfortable. And if you do that, you're going to find efficiencies that you just never could see from the position that you were in before.

Todd Miller:

: 00:41:21

Yeah, that's a point that comes up again and again here on the show. The companies that are the leaders, that are the long-termers, they are the ones that are always pushing ahead and not afraid of that, so good stuff. Well, we have a little something here on the show, Mike, that we call rapid fire questions.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:41:40

Ooh boy.

Todd Miller:

: 00:41:41

These are seven questions, maybe a little silly, some are little serious. All you have to do is provide a short answer, if you're up to the challenge. So are you feeling up to the challenge of rapid fire?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:41:53

I love the sound of it. I think my biggest challenge is to keep the answers short. But I will do my best.

Todd Miller:

: 00:42:00

Sometimes long answers are good too.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:42:01

Okay. All right.

Todd Miller:

: 00:42:03

That's great. Well, we will alternate asking. Would you like to go first?

Ethan Young:

: 00:42:07

Yeah, I can kick it off. Alright, question one. Let's say you're trying to survive a zombie apocalypse. Who's the one person that you want on your team?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:42:17

Oh, my goodness. I got to have Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson.

Ethan Young:

: 00:42:21

Nice.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:42:22

Because if they get him first, then there's plenty to feast on while I get away.

Ethan Young:

: 00:42:28

Nice.

Todd Miller:

: 00:42:29

That's a good way to look at it. Okay, good answer. Question number two, you're a little young for this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:42:37

Alright.

Todd Miller:

: 00:42:38

Favorite eighties song.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:42:41

Oh, man. That's a great question. I'm not that young for this. I'm an old soul, so. My goodness. I would say, I would say anything by Journey. Yeah, anything by Journey. Yeah, any of those come on, I'm all about it, so.

Todd Miller:

: 00:43:04

Good answer. I was a little bit more on the punk side back then, so I'm kind of, probably my favorite 80s song is Radar Love.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:43:12

A different Journey than I was on. Okay.

Todd Miller:

: 00:43:19

Okay. Let's move ahead.

Ethan Young:

: 00:43:21

Yeah, alright. Question three, What would you like to be remembered for?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:43:26

I hope people feel like I was always kind and helpful to them.

Todd Miller:

: 00:43:31

Perfect answer. Okay, This next question kind of is related to our whole thing going on here with Construction Disruption or disrupting. Is there any product or service that you've come across recently that's been new to you, that has been a real game changer, something that has been just disruptor and just a real game changer for you?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:43:57

Well, this isn't so new now, but I still am completely fascinated with drone technology and the, just the application for construction, because I was one of those builders and and trades contractors that had to get the ladder out, had to get up on the roof, had to had to scale this 12/12 roof to get up and see where the leak was. And I didn't know what I was getting into before I got up there. And so I didn't have the stuff I needed. And then I got to get that, you know, just the efficiency and the safety, which is probably the most important thing that has been gained from drone technology. Especially just coming from the roofing expo where, you know, they've really, they're really getting that stuff out. I think it's just fascinating.

Todd Miller:

: 00:44:42

Yeah, the roofing industry has really adopted it. We had a guest a while back that, what was that called? TraceAir?

Ethan Young:

: 00:44:50

Yeah, TraceAir.

Todd Miller:

: 00:44:50

And, you know, they they will go in and drone entire job sites and create topographical maps.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:44:57

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:44:58

All kinds of cool stuff. Good stuff.

Ethan Young:

: 00:45:01

Yeah. Alright, next question. Are you more of a night owl or a morning person?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:45:06

Oh, man, I'm actually both. To be honest, I don't sleep a lot. 4 to 5 hours a night, I'm usually golden, but I am a night owl first and foremost. If I need to stay up til four in the morning, even if I got to be up at six, I got no problem doing that.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:21

Yeah, that may catch up with you as you get older.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:45:23

Yeah, when I'm 97, I'm going to slow down just a little bit and I'm going to be like, Man, I should get more sleep.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:32

We have a customer that's been a long time customer of ours and he and our sales manager sort of bonded specially. Big difference in age.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:45:42

Okay.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:43

And one of the comments this customer made to Seth was, Well, you know, when you hit about 90 and a half, I got to admit, you start to slow down a little bit.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:45:53

There you go, man after my own heart.

Todd Miller:

: 00:45:57

Okay. Next to last question. What is your favorite season of the year?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:46:02

Well, I like the fall and primarily because I love to trail run. I love the changing leaves. I live in a mountain town called Salem, Utah. And I'm also a big archery hunter, so I really like to get out in the mountains and hunt. And I like hiking and camping and the fall when it's not so hot and crazy but the, the, you know, it's completely beautiful. But you're also not in three feet of snow. It's just an amazing time of year here in Utah.

Ethan Young:

: 00:46:33

Yeah. Utah's beautiful. I actually got the chance to go out West last year for the first time. It is unlike anything else I can say.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:46:40

Yeah, yeah, it's special. I love traveling, but I love getting back to my mountains.

Todd Miller:

: 00:46:46

Mhm. Mhm.

Ethan Young:

: 00:46:47

Alrighty, the last question. Are you more of a dog person or a cat person?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:46:53

So I am more of a dog person. I do love cats and I'm good with cats. I don't, I have no hate there. But yeah, dogs and that bond is different, but equally as strong to people sometimes and we love our puppies.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:13

Very cool. Well, this has been great. So I need to recap our success with our challenge words. I had the word origami, which I just forced in there so horribly, just horribly.

Ethan Young:

: 00:47:27

That was a tough one though.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:47:29

Yeah, it was a tough one.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:30

But I got in there. Mike, you had the word?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:47:36

Sentimental. Yeah, I used it twice, at least.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:39

You worked it in seamlessly.

Ethan Young:

: 00:47:40

Then I had gangbusters, which I got in there once. It was alright, I think, but.

Todd Miller:

: 00:47:45

I think you did really well because I don't remember you saying it. That's the real goal here, is to say it and no one even realizes.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:47:54

It's funny you say that, Todd. I thought the same thing. I'm like, I swear I heard it once, but I don't even remember when it was said.

Ethan Young:

: 00:48:00

Okay, well maybe it was alright.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:48:03

Good work, Ethan. Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:04

He is our expert. So, Mike, this has been great. For folks who might want to get in touch with you or learn more, how can they most easily do that?

Mike Merrill:

: 00:48:16

So our website is just workmax.com. We have a good LinkedIn profile that we, we like to post a lot of things that we have going on. That's just WorkMax_ like you know you can just type in WorkMax in the search and yeah I mean we're online and at a trade show near you most likely.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:43

Well and I would encourage everyone also to check out the Mobile Workforce podcast. Great show, great guests. So that's a lot of fun. So check that one out, too.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:48:53

Yeah, your show was a great one, Todd. I still remember it. And you laughed at my joke. Do you remember what my joke was back then? Have you used it since?

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:03

I don't, I don't.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:49:04

So I came up with it on the fly and you were talking about metal roofing. And I said, Yeah, I heard you found a cure for shingles and that was metal roofing, anyway.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:18

Yeah, I think I groaned. I think I groaned.

Mike Merrill:

: 00:49:23

Anyway, dad jokes. I'll be here all week.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:26

Good stuff, good stuff. Well, thank you again, Mike. And I'd like to thank our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Mike Merrill of About Time Technologies, WorkMax, and the Mobile Workforce Podcast. So we encourage you to please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We're always blessed with great guests, just like Mike. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube, we greatly appreciate that. Until our next episode next time we're together though, keep on disrupting and don't forget to have a positive impact on everyone you encounter. Make them smile, encourage them, simple things that we can do to change the world for someone. In the meanwhile, God bless and take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Destruction.

Todd Miller:

: 00:50:17

Intro/Outro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.

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