Shownotes
Kicking off with a real hot-potato topic, we couldn't help but chime in on the Israeli-Gaza conflict. The dynamics are complex and, honestly, heart-wrenching. Innocent lives on both sides pay the price, and the U.S. seems to be taking a hesitant stance, which is frustrating to watch. Do we lead, follow, or simply step aside? And the notion of supplying funds to both sides?
To keep it local, let’s talk about something that hit close to home – Ohio’s debate over the death penalty. With Dave Yost pushing for nitrogen executions, it’s rattled more than a few cages, including the companies pulling out from supplying the gas. It's a real ethical pickle that got us heated about everything — from the deterrent effect (or the lack of it) of the death penalty to the potential risk of executing the innocent. It seems there's no easy solution, with the cost and moral debate weighing heavily on all sides.
Wrapping up, as Ohio’s own, we can't let things like the Medicaid overpayment debacle slide by without a spirited chat. $1 billion overpaid? That's a figure worth raising eyebrows over, and you can bet we won't stop worrying about where our hard-earned cash is going.
Top Takeaways
1. **Moral Quandaries in Warfare:** The hosts highlight the dilemma of engaging in conflicts where one side adheres to rules of engagement while others might not, illustrating the complexities of modern warfare and its ethical implications.
2. **US Foreign Policy Scrutiny:** The episode critically examines the US's tentative stance on the Israeli-Gaza conflict, questioning the leadership and motives behind America's actions and the impact of providing financial aid to both sides.
3. **Death Penalty Debate:** The introduction of nitrogen as a means for executing death sentences in Ohio has sparked ethical discussions and corporate backlash, prompting a broader conversation about the death penalty's efficacy and moral standing.
4. **Government Efficiency and Accountability:** Hosts reflect on the perceived inefficiencies within government work, emphasizing the importance of personal investment and accountability for responsible fund use, and critiquing processes such as compliance with complicated government forms.
5. **Cultural and Historical Insights:** The discussion of Tecumseh and the solar eclipse provides listeners with a historical perspective on the cultural significance of natural events and leadership among indigenous peoples.
6. **Economic Disincentivization:** The episode tackles the issue of welfare abuse and disincentives to work post-COVID, emphasizing the need for cross-state checks and a more autonomous system for managing federal programs.
7. **Sports and Society:** The hosts share their views on changes in NFL rules, the potential inclusion of women in male-dominated sports, and the ethical considerations in sports gambling, such as the impact of prop bets on college athletes.
8. **Financial Literacy and Responsibility:** Discussions about financial management, savings, and the importance of checks and balances, whether in households or state welfare systems, underline the need for prudent economic behavior.
9. **Lottery and Gambling Dynamics:** Addressing the Ohio Lottery and March Madness betting, the hosts discuss the societal implications of state-run gambling, addiction concerns, and the complexity of NCAA sports betting.
10. **Controversy over End-of-Life Decisions:** A sobering conversation about individuals choosing euthanasia challenges listeners to contemplate the moral and societal ramifications of such choices, especially concerning neurodivergent individuals and those with terminal illnesses.
Memorable Moments
00:00 Hitler invaded, criticism of leaders similar today.
07:02 Israeli bombing of Iranian embassy creates controversy.
12:29 War without rules creates political difficulties and discrepancies.
19:23 Sports leagues and NCAA moving towards betting.
22:48 Client accused of theft, denies responsibility, confusion.
26:44 Ohio Medicaid overpaid $1 billion in fraud.
41:05 Dave Yost pushing for death penalty reinstatement.
45:59 Concerns about decision-making and effects of youth.
49:35 Redefining standards, morality, and human population concerns.
55:36 NFL bans pull-down tackles over safety.
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Transcripts
Alright. Here we are. It is commonsenseohioshow.com or just commonsenseohio if you just wanna listen to the show. But if you wanna listen to the show and check out the website and check out all the back, like, go to commonsenseohio show dot com where you have all the buttons necessary to like, subscribe, check us out on Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, you know, wherever else we are. I don't even know it's so many places. So ubiquitous that it is everywhere. And the reason one of the reasons anyway we are so ubiquitous is because we are sponsored by Harper Plus Accounting. And right now, anybody who's running a small business either is thinking, darn it, I had to extend my corporate.
Steve Palmer [:Now, I gotta extend my personal because I had to extend my corporate. And if you don't know what a k one is, don't worry about it. It's not skis. I think those are k twos.
Brett Johnson [:No. I I have no clue. But it's not
Steve Palmer [:a problem with skis. Wow. Wow. Put it on bumper. But, Kia, if you didn't get your k ones from March 15, then you can't do your personal returns for April 15, and now you're looking at October, not with Harper Plus because my stuff was done and it was tight and it was solid, and we're already planning for next year. My accountant could be yours. Now they have a separate whole separate. So, you know, there's this thing in accounting worlds where, you know, you do need to need a tax return done, you bring the paperwork, it gets done quickly.
Steve Palmer [:And do you trust H and R Block? I don't. Do you trust yourself with, like, TurboTax? I don't. So, you know Well
Brett Johnson [:well, there goes that sponsorship.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. Unless they unless they wanna sponsors. Right. Then they're the greatest. Yeah. But, no. So they've got Arbor Plus has a whole new wing just for that.
Steve Palmer [:They, they they'll get your your your quick little easy tax return, and nothing's quick and easy, but you get what I'm saying. They'll do the transactional stuff too. So Harper Plus accounting. What else do we got going on? A quote of the day, which is gonna lead into the World War 2 fact of the day, and you're gonna wonder what the hell Dante has to do with World War 2. But as Dante said, a mind sequestered in its own delusions is to reason invincible. Interesting. And what was he talking about Neville Chamberlain, who on this day in, like, 1930 or 1940 maybe said, proclaimed, Hitler has missed his bus. Peace and our time.
Steve Palmer [:Hitler has missed the bus on the invasion. So by by then, Hitler had already taken Poland, and, I think Chamberlain was talking I think he said it several times. And, you know, the Internet, my sources give me, like, the sometimes the same fact in different days. So forgive me if I get it wrong. But, anyway, he was talking to some people up in Norway and said, you know, don't worry. Hitler's Hitler has missed the bus. We're all good. We've had now had time to ramp up our military, and we're gonna be just fine.
Steve Palmer [:And then I think within a month, Hitler invaded. So it it it was an an interesting sort of segue, I think, into what's going on today. It's like this, there is this criticism and and the person who wrote or used Dante to describe Chamberlain, was a gal named Susan Peterson in The Guardian, describes him as a shy, prickly, arrogant, narrow minded, and above all, vain. Once he made up his mind, he thought criticism, was disloyal and personally hostile. As Dante said, a mind sequestered in its own delusions is to reason invincible. And isn't that similar to what we got cooking in in our leaders today? You know, they don't wanna hear it if you criticize them. And look, this may be this may be true on both sides of the political right now. Try to criticize anybody who's in charge right now and see the reaction you get.
Steve Palmer [:It is not a common sense approach to the world. And I think this is an interesting, I don't know. History repeats itself, I suppose. And this is why we're doing what we're doing. Right? Yeah. I I like to be able to take apart facts and circumstances and and tidbits and and just, you know, chop it up here at the table a little bit.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, you know, what you say and that author says about Chamberlain is absolutely true, but it's 10 times more true about Hitler who was completely delusional and his generals, you know, and Dante's, to use his metaphor, his circle of of generals around him almost never told him, you know, that this was the path to the end of Germany, that he was destroying their country with taking on all of these wars, invading all these countries, a two front war with the West and with Russia. And every time and, you know, finally, a few of them tried to blow him up, you know, in an assassination attempt. But it was way too freaking late.
Steve Palmer [:Well and then there was this you know, in the same article, the same history that I was studying this morning, is the Oster plot. And, apparently, there was this sort of rumor going around that if Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, that his own generals would
Brett Johnson [:Right. Sort of
Steve Palmer [:they would step in and and sort of take him down. And Chamberlain sort of bought into that nonsense. Yeah. Churchill did not, as it as it were. Yeah. But, you know, there's there's some really fascinating history going back and forth with how Churchill takes power, after the war had already started or sort of as it starts. Chamberlain sort of is shamed off. And then but ironically, after the war, it was sort of the reverse.
Steve Palmer [:You know, Churchill's gone. The socialist sort of move in and, you know, there we go.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. The old pressure
Steve Palmer [:Maybe that's a strong word, socialist. But the other the labor party.
Brett Johnson [:No. No. That there were any number of of plots or or theories, you know, before Hitler really ramped up and and invaded Poland that these various Anschlusses like into Czechoslovakia, for example, that, and Austria. And, you know, he did a he did several of these, Alsace, Lorraine. He went into a lot of these areas, and the old Prussian generals were always thinking, oh, god. No way is France and England gonna put up with this shit. And they did. And they did.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And and so
Steve Palmer [:No way the United States have put up with, attacks on our merchant ships. Right. Exactly. Exactly. No way we would put up with that.
Norm Murdock [:You'd think we wouldn't, would you?
Steve Palmer [:No way we would put up with China taking Taiwan. Right. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Or building islands out in the Pacific that are aircraft carriers.
Steve Palmer [:We wouldn't put up with that. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:We wouldn't put up with that. You know, I mean
Steve Palmer [:Or like terrorists coming across the border unchecked.
Norm Murdock [:Well, actually, well, let's just fly them in.
Brett Johnson [:It is Well, it won't pay to bring them in. Right. Right. It is an invasion, like, assisted by the federal government itself. Right. It's it's insane. Understand the states rebelling and going to the Supreme Court and saying, you know, we want s p 4 in Texas to be upheld because nobody's stopping these people.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. We would never put up with that.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. We would never put up with that.
Steve Palmer [:That couldn't happen.
Brett Johnson [:Look who I found.
Steve Palmer [:We've got a guest.
Brett Johnson [:We've been
Steve Palmer [:all all you
Brett Johnson [:see is
Steve Palmer [:a tail like a nurse's dick.
Brett Johnson [:I love it. I love your dog, Patty.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So without further ado, I suppose we should jump right in. Thanks, Steve. Lots of stuff going on in the world.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my god. Speaking of warfare, you know, just brief. I so the Israeli bombing this past week of an embassy, I I just I can't get over that they bombed the Iranian embassy in in Damascus, Syria. They they in order to kill a particular general who was doing all of this terrorism you know, like, Trump bombed, you know, the the Iranian general at an airport, but the Israelis bombed an embassy. And then a couple days later, they they mistakenly I suppose, they say they made a mistake, they they killed 6 or 7, food aid workers Mhmm. In Gaza, blew blew them up. And I think it reflects not only the fog of war, like like, the United States has done stuff like this too.
Steve Palmer [:Well, like, in recent times
Brett Johnson [:In recent times.
Steve Palmer [:Afghanistan, Biden did the same damn thing.
Brett Johnson [:He killed 10 people, you know, some guy coming back with his kids.
Steve Palmer [:And got got skewered for it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. So So and Biden never really, like, said he was sorry or anything. He just kinda like mowed you know, just moseyed on.
Steve Palmer [:I'm not sure he even knew it happened.
Brett Johnson [:No. So what so, like, I wanna support Israel and I've been on the program saying that. I thought Israel I should've known better because Netanyahu is is kinda out there. He has a history of being out there. The real net Netanyahu hero was his brother who was killed, rescuing those, those people, who were hijacked and held at in in in Entebbe. And, he was a special forces Israeli soldier, on that mission and in charge of it, and he got killed. But Benjamin, his brother, the younger brother, I mean, he has a record of attacking refugee camps, attacking settlements. This guy's a little out there, and I was hoping Israel would be surgical in their methods.
Brett Johnson [:Like, I was I instead, they're carpet bombing Gaza.
Steve Palmer [:I wouldn't say they're carpet bombing.
Brett Johnson [:Well, I mean, the whole cities are are gone.
Steve Palmer [:On on the other hand,
Norm Murdock [:Like craters in
Steve Palmer [:the middle. Pick it apart, because I don't I don't I have to decide how I where I fall on this one. You know, as far as the friendly fire incident, I I think in almost any conflict, any war in history that has happened.
Brett Johnson [:But when you bomb an embassy,
Steve Palmer [:you basically The embassy is a different those those 2 are different things.
Norm Murdock [:So you need
Steve Palmer [:to take them differently.
Brett Johnson [:Embassies are where you do diplomacy. Correct. Even
Steve Palmer [:if an
Brett Johnson [:embassy harbors a crook or an evil person, I don't get bombing the embassy.
Steve Palmer [:So that's a this is this is where it gets really blurry, because, you know, Hamas has hidden its people in hospitals, under hospitals. They're basically they're they're creating human innocent human shields For
Brett Johnson [:sure.
Steve Palmer [:And then saying, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. You can't get us.
Brett Johnson [:Just like North Vietnam did during
Steve Palmer [:That's right. Vietnam War. It puts it puts the attackers in a really precarious position.
Brett Johnson [:Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:So, look, I I get you. I I don't I don't I don't presume to know enough military strategy about what was going on there as to whether that was necessary, and certainly not or proper, whatever the words would be.
Brett Johnson [:So if if if if Netanyahu ran the Vietnam War, he would have carpet bombed Hanoi. And we we did not do that.
Steve Palmer [:We didn't. Then we lost.
Brett Johnson [:Well, we didn't lose.
Steve Palmer [:Well, we left. We left. We left. But we left. We left because of this, really, in a lot of ways, because of the political backlash of of this kind of stuff.
Brett Johnson [:What was a half ass war? Max Emerus said this, you know, this this, we'll meet this force with an equal amount of force, but not enough to win.
Steve Palmer [:Not enough to win. Right. So I mean and maybe you look at Israel, and they're saying, we're not gonna do that.
Brett Johnson [:Well, I think it it it well, I don't blame Israel, the country. It's the leadership. This guy is just he's hell bent on retribution, and I get that. But he's operating from an emotional basis. And I Maybe. Well and what they did to the 1200, and there's still, like, a 125 people being held prisoner. And they're raping them. They're torturing them.
Brett Johnson [:They're killing them. So I get all that.
Steve Palmer [:There there there's there's that there's evil on both sides going on there, I think, is what you're saying. Now now blowing up an embassy
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Look, even if it even if they felt it necessary, it's not a great look.
Norm Murdock [:No. And I dare say, okay, maybe we could kinda go back to the Dante quote that okay. I we both know all of us know that, you know, Israel comes from the standpoint that they want anybody in Palestine, everyone dead. They don't want them alive. And the Palestinians the same way. They treat each other like shit.
Brett Johnson [:The the the radicals on both sides.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, it it's it's a cultural thing.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, there are peaceful people.
Norm Murdock [:There are. Yes. Yeah. But for as a as a whole.
Steve Palmer [:All this war is defined this way, the way you're talking
Brett Johnson [:about it. Right? Yeah. They they
Norm Murdock [:they don't recognize each other.
Brett Johnson [:That's true.
Norm Murdock [:Bottom line. So it doesn't they're trying to I'm not trying to justify the means, but it kind of is it going that direction? It's like, I we don't care. I'm the whole thing.
Steve Palmer [:Well and then they're sort of looking at, like, if we don't do this, they're gonna do it to us. So this this is what happens when you fight a war like this that doesn't presume to have really any rules. Or if you have one side playing by the rules but the other not, then Yeah. It gets, it gets politically difficult. And and look, I would say we'll flip it around here for a second. There's all these ceasefire calls and, stopped, quit killing innocent civilians, do whatever. And all you have to do is say Hamas, release your hostages, and we'll see fire. And they won't do it.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:That's yeah.
Steve Palmer [:They won't do it. They won't slow down anymore than Israel. So you can't blame one and not the other. Right.
Brett Johnson [:So Biden so see, Netanyahu had to know this. He he's a shit tactician. If he didn't understand with a weak US president that the moment yesterday be in the phone call between Biden and Netanyahu, he had to know that was coming because Biden has doesn't have any stomach for any of this. Right?
Steve Palmer [:No. Biden it's not the enemy's stomach.
Brett Johnson [:Folding up because of the election coming, and he needs Detroit He and he needs Minnesota.
Steve Palmer [:He's always been a flipper guided by whatever political whatever political current he thinks is gonna get him. Right. You know, remember him being tough on crime and remember him saying no, the Hatch Act. Like, like, all this crap.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And and all of a sudden, it changes changes wins with whoever. He's meeting with Bernie Sanders about health care all of a sudden when he was supposed to be a moderate. I mean, look, this is
Brett Johnson [:But but Netanyahu, by being so extreme, he has he has triggered Biden and Tony Blinken yesterday saying that if they don't declare a ceasefire quite soon, that America is gonna pull their support from Israel in some way. Right? Right. And and that's a disaster for the people of Israel. I want Israel to prevail here.
Steve Palmer [:This is a disaster for everybody.
Brett Johnson [:For everybody. But it's it's just
Steve Palmer [:What is Putin thinking?
Brett Johnson [:Jesus. So when we went into What's kind
Steve Palmer [:of thinking?
Brett Johnson [:When when our marines
Steve Palmer [:What's Iran thinking? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:When our marines
Steve Palmer [:went into I take notes. Boom. When
Brett Johnson [:we when we went into Fallujah, right, we we we didn't carpet bomb Fallujah. We went house to house. It was very painful and costly. A lot of American lives, a lot of boys, you know, missing limbs now. Right? Going house to house, building to building, extracting ISIS, extracting the terrorists, extracting, you know, the the what did they call them? The the the swords of revenge or whatever the acronym was, but they're not doing that in Gaza. They are the the tactic is we're not gonna risk our people. We're just gonna blow buildings up.
Norm Murdock [:Because they have a very little respect for anybody that's in the Gaza Strip.
Brett Johnson [:And they're children. They're freaking children.
Norm Murdock [:I know. I know. I know.
Steve Palmer [:Dude, and and at the same time, you have Hamas hijacking aid convoys.
Brett Johnson [:I get that. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And and so it's like
Brett Johnson [:So kill Hamas. That's my point.
Steve Palmer [:I'm with you. But if
Brett Johnson [:Get your intelligence together
Steve Palmer [:If Hamas is hiring behind the innocent people
Brett Johnson [:I get that.
Steve Palmer [:What do you do?
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Well, in those situations, I think you do what you have to do. Like, you go in to the hospital. You go on to the airplane like they did in Entebbe.
Steve Palmer [:You wonder. I agree.
Brett Johnson [:And some of the hostages get killed.
Steve Palmer [:You wonder. If we had a more
Brett Johnson [:But you know carpet bomb.
Steve Palmer [:If if we had a more, sophisticated is not the right word. But maybe, if we if we had a less spineless approach to this and the US were actually getting involved Right. And saying, alright, Israel. We're gonna back you, but you're gonna do it this way. Yeah. You're gonna go in surgically like you're talking about. Yep.
Brett Johnson [:At a pinpoint.
Steve Palmer [:You're gonna we'll give you some leadership. We'll give you some military assistance. We'll help you with the tactics. You're gonna pinpoint this. You're gonna do it. But our country won't do that. The Western world won't do that.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And so Israel's like, yeah, we're gonna do it our way then. We're gonna do it. And and so This guy's a hot You always wonder what fills a vacuum Yeah. When it exists. Yeah. Because it never just exists forever. A vacuum fills with something. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And we're not filling it. Right. You know, we're playing both sides. So our country right now is playing but, actually, we're giving money to both sides. This is it's it's almost insane.
Norm Murdock [:It's almost insane. It's insane.
Steve Palmer [:It's well,
Brett Johnson [:it is.
Steve Palmer [:It is. We're taking no position except whatever Biden thinks is politically prudent to get Michigan. Right? Right. So, I mean Well Right?
Norm Murdock [:At least that's how it's being portrayed.
Steve Palmer [:That's how it's being portrayed.
Norm Murdock [:Or yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Well, it certainly looks that way.
Norm Murdock [:It looks that way.
Brett Johnson [:Correct.
Steve Palmer [:The dots are certainly lining up in that direction.
Brett Johnson [:I'm afraid.
Steve Palmer [:You know, you wonder. So now if we weren't taking that position, if we actually like, it's almost always better to be, to to take a position, act on it, move forward with a plan. Yeah. And then you know what? When you're wrong, at least you know what doesn't work and you can back up and go a different direction. Right. So I do this when I hunt all the time. I go hunt new land. People are like, what are we gonna do? I don't I don't know.
Steve Palmer [:Let's figure this out and make a plan. And then they say, well, how you know that's gonna work? Well, I don't know it's gonna work, but I'll try and then I know what won't work.
Brett Johnson [:So hunting is a great metaphor. Okay? There's assholes that go out there and throw grenade in a lake. Right? And then the fish, you know, float up to the surface and they go get 200 fish. And then there's other guys that are real sportsmen, right, that put a hook in the water and they do it the right way.
Steve Palmer [:Well, it depends on if you want if you need 200 fish or not.
Norm Murdock [:True. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Yeah. There's people that net fish. Talking about sportsmen.
Brett Johnson [:You know what I'm saying. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Well, it's it's no fun to do it that way. So
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. But it's also not right. Yeah. I mean, it's not ethical. Again And hunting Depends
Steve Palmer [:on if your net and fish are curved casting and catching.
Brett Johnson [:Well, but yeah, as you know come on, Steve. As you know, there's ethical ways to hunt deer and there's unethical ways and and you know all about that. You're an you're
Steve Palmer [:an honor. Fair enough.
Brett Johnson [:You know, that's all I'm saying. Yeah. And so if you're hunting terrorists, there's an ethical way to do it in an unethical way. And I don't even think
Steve Palmer [:But you need the most ethical scenarios
Brett Johnson [:they're not even trying.
Steve Palmer [:The lines get blurred. Alright.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, well. For sure. Yes.
Brett Johnson [:Mistakes get made.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I I understand.
Steve Palmer [:That's why that's why I draw 2 different I think they're 2 different stories.
Brett Johnson [:Right. That they have the
Steve Palmer [:same story. Dental. Right. So you you can't conclude from a friendly fire incident that the attacking force is evil.
Brett Johnson [:No. Of course not.
Steve Palmer [:And you can't say it's directly related to the embassy, because the embassy clearly was intentional. The the
Norm Murdock [:Certainly looks like it. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And I just don't think that the the, these friendly fire was.
Brett Johnson [:Well, it wasn't friendly fire and but I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
Steve Palmer [:You're hitting the aid trucks.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Hitting the aid people.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. Complete change of topic. Can we talk a little bit about this this prop betting just I'm so I have to say, I'm confused. The NC 2 a is saying in sports gambling. So, like, $3,000,000,000 were wagered are being wagered during March Madness right now. And there's all these ads. Okay. Pete Rose is still banned from the hall of fame for allegedly betting.
Brett Johnson [:But but now the NBA like, Major League Baseball, everybody is is betting. And the NC 2A is saying, like, the college athletes. So from what I understand, prop betting means proposition betting. And it's it's betting not on the the spread or who's winning the game, but on little things like, you know, how much time will it take from the opening buzzer for Caitlin, whatever her name is, to sink her first basket? Is it gonna be 15 seconds? I know. Okay. Alright. Right? So then n c
Steve Palmer [:2 a game betting.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. So n c 2 a says these bets are causing pressure on these amateur athletes who are just college kids. Right? And, man, some of them are gonna take a dive. Some of them are are gonna get threatened.
Steve Palmer [:That's the problem. I mean, it's always been a problem.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right? So, I mean, does it should it So how is
Brett Johnson [:this being prevented? The NC 2A says you're not allowed to do that anymore. Well, really? They think the state of, you know, Nevada is gonna respect what the n c two a says?
Norm Murdock [:Says? Well, not not since the online betting just cranked up this past Yeah. Like, year and a half ago that what state doesn't have it.
Brett Johnson [:How can they put the genie back in a bottle?
Steve Palmer [:I Well, you've got look, the the the things that are happening in college athletics, the gambling, and then the, name, likeness, and image, or name, image, likeness.
Norm Murdock [:NAL. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It is it's like it's changing college sports forever.
Brett Johnson [:Forever? Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:Like it or not. Yeah. You know, some people are all in favor of it. You know, I happen not to be. I also recognize it as, like, alright. Well, you know, here we are. Yeah. It's a different game.
Steve Palmer [:So we're recruiting players. Like, one team college teams are now recruiting players and, offering money.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's like right. And it's
Brett Johnson [:And it's it's not we're we're not paying you to attend Arizona State University. We're paying you to advertise for this car deal.
Steve Palmer [:Right. It's it's funny. So, look, you know, you could say it's a recognition of what was already happening, and maybe it is, but it's money. And and it's changing the face of it. So gambling is such an interesting phenomenon to me. So so everybody has been watching me. I know it's not just the high lottery, but the Powerball or whatever these lotteries are up to 1,000,000,000. Over a 1,000,000,000, 1 point something 1000000000.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, you win that, you cash out at 500,000,000. You pay taxes, you're walking away 300,000,000. If you I think you live on that. Yeah. But what's funny is that's a numbers racket. Yeah. It's all it is a numbers racket. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's what the mobsters used to run, so that's a numbers game. And Mhmm. Yeah. That's all the lottery is. You know, they have machines in every, FOE or, private club or whatever for represented folks who are accused of the misconduct with relation to those machines. They get addicted on gambling. I've clients who have spent literally a $100,000 on gaming, and the state's running it. The state is running it.
Norm Murdock [:All all specifically, Ohio, all in all in the voice of it's gonna go to the schools. Oh. It's gonna go to the schools.
Steve Palmer [:It's all nonsense.
Norm Murdock [:It's gonna
Brett Johnson [:solve school funding problem. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yet yet we still have a school funding problem and we've had a lottery. Right? So
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, right. Right. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So It's just too big
Norm Murdock [:of a machine for anybody to really point fingers at it and shut it down.
Steve Palmer [:I I happen to be talking within the last several months with Ohio Lottery agents. Oh. They have they have their own little brown shirt force.
Brett Johnson [:Cheese. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:They're talking about what happened, and my client did this or that and the other. And now, you know, my client stole this. And, you know, they they and they kept saying my client stole from them. Wow. And I I sat across the table just like we are now, and I said, you mean me? Yeah. Right. Us? And they looked at me sort of funny. I was like How was it you? Isn't this isn't this a taxpayer problem? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You didn't lose any money. Well, you know, we represent the lottery community. I I said, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And that's the that's us. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Are they the same agency as
Steve Palmer [:the liquor control agents? Or is it It's under the same hat, but
Brett Johnson [:it's a different agency. Wow. I mean,
Norm Murdock [:considers getting rid of the lottery. How much effort would that take?
Brett Johnson [:It would be And the and the morality behind it.
Norm Murdock [:Thinking about all the addiction that is a problem with that. I think
Brett Johnson [:it's impossible.
Steve Palmer [:I have start I've I I have purchased less than 20 lottery tickets my entire life. Not counting scratch scratch offs, I'll buy them for gifts at Christmas and stockings. Yeah. Right. But, like, actual lottery tickets to win a $1,000,000,000. And I've been purchasing them lately because, like, wow, you know, it's a 1,000,000,000. Somebody's gonna win. I'll spend $3.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know Right. It adds up. Right. And if you do that every day, and I know people who have played the pick 3 and pick 5 and pick whatever. Yeah. And if you if you play those every single day, you know, you're spending a couple $100 a month on lottery tickets.
Brett Johnson [:So have you heard of to support your point, have you heard about this guy out in Vegas who has won, you know, the one armed bandit, the the, you know, the what do you call it? The
Norm Murdock [:Slot machine? Slot machine. Right.
Brett Johnson [:He he he's he's won it 4 times now for multiple 100 of 1000. So the same guy, and it's 25100 what he's doing, he's he's spending $25100 per pool. And he has now won 1 point $3,000,000. He's hit the jackpot 4 times in the last 4 weeks.
Steve Palmer [:Wow.
Brett Johnson [:It's incredible. But, I mean, have you ever I've I never even knew you could spend $25100.
Steve Palmer [:I'm sure you have a high roller room and you
Norm Murdock [:can as well.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. The high roller room. I'm sure
Norm Murdock [:you can. Can.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, look. I I have gambled. I played blackjack. I played craps. I pulled the slot machines a few times. I recognize how addicting it really is. Yep. It is it it is
Brett Johnson [:The endorphin.
Steve Palmer [:It's like and I get addicted to a lot of stuff, and I know what that is.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So I have to, you know, I have to treat that like a really hot fire. Yeah. And, I can't be the only one.
Brett Johnson [:No. For sure. No. No. No.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I know I know it's it's almost like an oversimplified. But look at it. And the lottery is no different. And these gamings that or the the gambling that we're talking about in March Madness is no different. And, you know, you could say that the NCAA now is like, well, wait a minute. We don't want this anymore. At the same time, they're making tons of money from it.
Steve Palmer [:Like, who's watching March Madness except for that? Yeah. You know, and it's, like, the tournament, nobody is like, I watch that tournament or pay attention to that tournament tournament tournament.
Norm Murdock [:There you go.
Steve Palmer [:There you go. There you go. Tournament. Yeah. And I don't care. But I've got a $10 office pool. So I'm like, ah, check the scores and see what's happening. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Now if I, you know, if I had bets on who's gonna make the 1st basket, I'd be watching. It'd be a lot more fun.
Brett Johnson [:So so do you remember back when, like, DraftKings and the other platforms were just coming on like you would hear radio spots and stuff. You couldn't really bet in the US with those guys. It was over wasn't like Virgin Islands.
Steve Palmer [:Back like a decade or so. They
Norm Murdock [:were they were based somewhere else for
Brett Johnson [:it to But they were laying the ground
Steve Palmer [:Well, you were people are playing poker online, the blackjack on. I was getting calls all the time about it. Is it illegal in Ohio if I'm betting on playing on this system over there? You know, it's like all sorts of stuff.
Brett Johnson [:It's in Barbados or something, but you're online with them.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So and now it's just the state just said, look. We can't beat it, so let's join them. We're gonna we're gonna have our own gaming gambling, regime. The state has its own casinos.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Correct.
Steve Palmer [:End of story.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, speaking of the state of Ohio wasting money because like you said, gambling has not paid for the schools. No. Our secretary of, our Ohio auditor, Keith Faber, disclosed this past week that Ohio Medicaid overpaid $1,000,000,000 last year in illegal double dip fraud. And what what this is it involves a 124,000 people in Ohio that are dual enrolled in other states as well as Ohio. And they're not even necessarily getting the money, but the the operating companies in the health care system like CareSource, like, they get paid by the state of Florida. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Brett Johnson [:So it's no bird Ohioan, like, who's on Medicaid and by the way, 1 third of Ohioans are on Medicaid, which just blows me away. So 3,600,000 Ohioans are on Medicaid because CASIC and Obama opened it up. They they they liberalized the eligibility, standards. Right. So Mhmm. 1,000,000,000 is going like CareSource is getting paid for the same operation or drug or whatever it is for this little old lady, fictitious little old lady who's in Florida, but also in in Ohio, and she's registered with both states.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So
Norm Murdock [:she's figured she's figured out the legal status legal resident status of the states.
Steve Palmer [:It's not her.
Brett Johnson [:It's CareSource.
Steve Palmer [:It's CareSource. CareSource. So what's happening is We're being defrauded. If I am say I'm CareSource, and you come to me, and you've got Medicaid, you're you're not paying Medicaid. That's right.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:But on my side and there's a whole industry behind this on medical billing. It is as complicated as it gets. I mean, there are codes for everything. The code the the Medicaid will will slash you here, but bill let you pay more here. So it's gotten down to the science where if we call it this, we get paid more and it's sort of the same thing. We'll just do it over here. Right. Whatever.
Steve Palmer [:It's become this sort of complicated science on how you get paid. And I think what you're saying is CareSource is collecting payment not only from Ohio, but also from Florida.
Brett Johnson [:And maybe a third state. God knows.
Steve Palmer [:And maybe a third state. So what I need to know is, are they doing it on purpose? And, you know, you could say it's always on purpose if they're collecting twice. But they may not even know they're doing it because a lot of this stuff is just sort of automated and whatever. They could just be sending bills or it could just be well, this is the classic in the checkout line at the grocery store. Well, they didn't charge me for it, so I guess I'll just take it. But guess what? It's still theft.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You know, if somebody double pays you and you know it and you accept it twice, it's theft.
Brett Johnson [:But like Favor says, can you imagine what Ohio like, if we didn't have to spend that 1,000,000,000 in fraud, it could be used in other, you know, federal restraint.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's it's unbelievable. And it's only a 1000000000, yet it's a 1000000000. And we're one of 50 states. Looked into this?
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The in every department. This is what's so asnot.
Brett Johnson [:And in every state.
Steve Palmer [:I represented somebody who works for the person was an attorney working for public safety or something here in Ohio. And I I I learned how many attorneys I can't remember the number. But how many attorneys worked for the Department of Public Safety, what they made, and then what they did all day long. And it's it is asinine. It's asinine. And Right. You know, and I I can't even begin to to to vent about this because it's just it's so upsetting to me.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, There was a stat yesterday
Brett Johnson [:that came out that said, people who have home offices, like people during COVID that were allowed to work from their homes are twice as likely to take a nap on the job as people who are
Steve Palmer [:in I'm not gonna use any names. But this was a government attorney. And the government attorney was talking to me one time about something or other. And he mentioned some device. I said, I don't know what that is. He goes, well, you know, it's this thing. It's like you put your mouse on it, and it moves your mouse every so often, so your screen doesn't go off. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:I was like, well, why do you care?
Brett Johnson [:You're imitating activity.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Wow. And the reason they care about I was like, it took me a second to sort of put 2 and 2 together, and I realized, oh, you're watching Netflix, and you wanna make them think you're working. That's theft. Or taking that. Or taking that. Right. You're mowing grass and they think you're working because your mouse is moving.
Steve Palmer [:Wow. It is. How crooked
Brett Johnson [:it is.
Norm Murdock [:Because I know
Steve Palmer [:they've got This is Steph.
Norm Murdock [:Hayden has talked about this taking online tests at UC or it was during the summer when he was doing it on, you know, 100% online. Of course, he was taking. And it's something to do with the camera catching eyes where these eyes would be. Woah. So if his eyes go down to look for for answers rather than taking the test, it would know. So he really had to be focused on the screen taking the test. So they have that technology there like, to the reversal of what you're saying. Facial recognition.
Norm Murdock [:Pretty much a facial recognition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it moves the mouse. So it looks like There's
Steve Palmer [:a mouse.
Brett Johnson [:Unbelievable. I
Steve Palmer [:have gotten this habit every afternoon. I go home, you know, somewhere mid afternoon. I just get a change of scenery, and I just return emails and phone calls or whatever.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And I, you know, I sit on my couch and just sort of do it, and I got my dog there, and maybe I'll start dinner because it take you know, whatever it would be.
Brett Johnson [:But you work for yourself.
Steve Palmer [:I work for myself. But there are time look, what I'm saying is, I am I am certainly not more efficient at home.
Brett Johnson [:No. God. No.
Steve Palmer [:And and far from it. I mean Sometimes I'll doze off for about 20 minutes. Sometimes I'll, you know, I'll I'll I'll watch it. I'll listen to a podcast while I'm doing something else. But I you know, I'm I'm not ripping anybody off. No. I'm working for myself.
Norm Murdock [:Well, you're ripping yourself off.
Steve Palmer [:Dripping myself off. If you don't. Right.
Norm Murdock [:No. Yeah. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:If you look back on
Norm Murdock [:the day going, okay.
Steve Palmer [:Could I have been more productive?
Brett Johnson [:But then you're also working till 3 in the morning sometime.
Steve Palmer [:So I choose to do it at a different time. Right? So my job's a little bit sporadic. But the like, if I'm paying a government attorney to be there for 8 hours Yeah. And and do 8 hours worth of work, they're not doing that. They're not even getting close to doing that.
Brett Johnson [:No. They're not.
Steve Palmer [:And, and what they're making I mean, we're talking like mid 6 figures or, you know, a 125, 150,000 Right. Plus benefits.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, and
Steve Palmer [:what Plus forgiving student loans.
Brett Johnson [:So, guys
Steve Palmer [:This is this is a racket.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. What could be more basic, right, than states getting together and running a Social Security number to see if they're doubly or triply paying
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:For the same claim. I mean, this doesn't even seem to be hard.
Steve Palmer [:This is what I say all the time. It's always easy to spend somebody else's money, and it's all and the corollary or maybe an offshoot of that is you don't give a crap when it's not very efficient. Like, you just did there's no incentive for them to care because they just got so much money. And how many Yeah. How many times have you talked to a government entity that says, oh, it's the end of the year. We gotta get our budget in. We gotta spend it.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Oh. Like And if we don't spend it, we lose it.
Steve Palmer [:We lose it. Right? You could give it back. Yeah. Gee. And maybe we'll we'll give you a bonus at the end
Norm Murdock [:of the year for saving some money. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's great.
Steve Palmer [:Could give it back. Why why are we incentivizing blowing through
Norm Murdock [:it all?
Steve Palmer [:Right? Yeah. You think that there'd
Norm Murdock [:be some measures to double check that scenario. But
Steve Palmer [:If you were running a private business, you wouldn't tolerate it. No. No way. You would not tolerate it.
Norm Murdock [:None of this stuff would
Steve Palmer [:you tolerate.
Brett Johnson [:And it's so captive and obvious.
Steve Palmer [:These these mothers would be prosecuted. I mean, it would be like,
Brett Johnson [:yeah,
Steve Palmer [:it would be you wouldn't tolerate any of it. Yet somehow with taxpayer dollars, like, oh, it's just sort of funny we spent $5,000 for a hammer.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Exactly. So being speaking of being prosecuted, so are we going after the companies or the individuals?
Brett Johnson [:Well, I think that has yet to be determined.
Steve Palmer [:I've represented I've represented 1, both, and whatever. So, like, they'll take down a lot of these you know what they do? Here's what's frustrating. I'll represent, I'll say, a home health aide. And I've got several of these right now. And the home health aide, like, day in and day out, it maybe it's a woman in a small town in Ohio, and, her job is to go take care of people at home. And then what happens is they become sort of friendly with the people. You know, they they become like a separate Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:They're almost a family member.
Steve Palmer [:Family member.
Brett Johnson [:Sure do.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, maybe the family and so they they they go that day and the the family says, don't worry about it. We'll take care of it today. And, know, you can just go home and don't worry. We bill it anyway. You know, just don't worry about it. So they do. And, you know, maybe they stack up a couple of 1,000 in in billing like that, then they get indicted. You know, but that that stuff is going on.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, and it's I'm not saying they shouldn't get indicted. But but a lot of times, they'll have sort of the logic that you just gave me normal. They're gonna my the home health, they just say, well, look, I worked like, I always stay, like, 20 minutes late. Yeah. And I never bill for that. So I'll just do this.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:This is what happens with government programs. Right. It is what happens with government programs. You can it's almost impossible to do it perfectly. It cannot when you anybody's ever filled out a form for something, and you know that the information you have doesn't fit on the form and you gotta figure it out
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Well, something it just doesn't work.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. The the there's no skin in the game. These people don't have a personal stake in their department's budget or or what they're spending. So there's no Right. Incentive for anybody to double check or audit or be,
Steve Palmer [:People should. Right. And what you said, Norm, is you used the word in there, incentive, which is really a corollary to human nature. Yeah. Like, human nature is gonna do what we're incentivized to do. You know, if it's my money
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I am not gonna tolerate this.
Brett Johnson [:Adam Smith. I mean, it's basic, you know. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Adam Smith. You're exactly right.
Brett Johnson [:Basic economics. If you have skin in the game, you will care then
Steve Palmer [:You will care.
Brett Johnson [:About the costs and the benefits and where the money is going. And you'll be you be because it's coming out of your pocket.
Steve Palmer [:My son is saving for something right now, and it's joyous to watch his bank account grow. That's awesome. Where if he wasn't where if I were just gonna buy it for him, he would go blow it at McDonald's every day after work, you know. And it's like Right. You know, there there's a skin like you said, skin in the game.
Norm Murdock [:And, you know, the more and more you think about this. Okay. A $1,000,000,000 over over a year's time, I'm assuming. Yes. Checks and balances quarterly? If you think I mean, if you look at it over the first so that's the first quarter and going, it's $300,000,000 higher than a year over year look.
Steve Palmer [:Well, they don't even know because it's probably happened so many years.
Brett Johnson [:See, in this
Steve Palmer [:case like the last year.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Maybe. It's
Norm Murdock [:just it's just so,
Brett Johnson [:Brett, this feeds into every program you can think of. Yeah. It feeds into voter voting fraud.
Steve Palmer [:Sure. I mean
Brett Johnson [:It feeds Yeah. When there's no cross checking between the states. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. Right. Right. Sure. Sure. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, this I mean, people like, this is the oldest scam. People on welfare in 2 different states. You know, I my office is down on the south side, and I got to know a lot of Appalachian folks. There's the Appalachian settlement house that's a block from my office. Right? The South Side Settlement House. And it's it was for Appalachians coming into Ohio to assist them with, you know, hey. You're in a new state. You're not in West Virginia anymore, right, or Kentucky.
Brett Johnson [:You're in Ohio. This is how things work. We're gonna help you find an apartment. We're gonna, you know, etcetera. Find a job, blah blah blah. Well, these these folks were telling me and, you know, they're just good old boys. And and I and I said one time, hey. Are are you gonna be around, I don't know what it was, 4th July or something early in the month? And and and I'll use the guy's name.
Brett Johnson [:He's not in Ohio anymore. But is the guy's name happened to be Steve and Steve said, no, Norm. We we have to go back to West Virginia because my check's coming. And I said, what do you mean check? And he says, well, I get a welfare check-in Ohio and I get one in West Virginia.
Steve Palmer [:And they don't think anything of it. And
Brett Johnson [:they no. He he didn't perceive that there was any problem with that. It was just him being clever and working the system.
Steve Palmer [:Right. This is like the person at the checkout line says, oh, that's good for me.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, Steve. I hope you don't get busted. I mean, I'm not gonna bust you. But But, dude, like It's a crime. Your asshole's hanging out. And you're stealing for me Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Here in
Norm Murdock [:the state of Ohio.
Brett Johnson [:People in West Virginia.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You're Nothing else. Nothing else. You take it personal because you're stealing from me.
Steve Palmer [:Push that out. Extrapolate it out. So, you know, these people are not are not only disincentivized from working. It's like they're double disincentive. Now it's like Yeah. I mean, this is great. So Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And we have now we like, and all you have to do is look at post COVID, what we've done. Right. Like, we have just disincentivized so many people from going back to work. We've we've ruined businesses. There's the and then we're they were adding sort of off the books labor by the millions.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Through the southern border.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It just is yeah. Well, it's like doctors,
Brett Johnson [:you know, doctors that lose their license in one state, and they go, you know, they go shopping for another state and they they pop up in California and they're, you know, and they're disbarred, so to speak, from another state. It's like these states don't cross check with each other.
Steve Palmer [:It it It's unbelievable. Let's unpack that a little bit though because, you know, when we founded the country, we each individual state was sort of like its own country. There was a time when if you went to Indiana, it meant something.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Or if you went to Kentucky, oh, I'm down you know, you had different laws. That's right. Different thing. There wasn't interstates. It was it was a whole different world. Right. It was a different realm. And now it's become homogenized with, with a really a bigger federal governmental presence than I think our founders ever ever intended.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And so now we've got this weird mix of both, which I think is what the problem is. So I don't have any problem. If I get if a doctor is disbarred or and say a lawyer is disbarred in Ohio and then goes in California and gets a license to practice, look, if if you're gonna have it that way, well, then have it that way. You know, you the California's got every right to license a lawyer out there. Right. Just because Ohio didn't, doesn't mean they can't. Right.
Brett Johnson [:But
Steve Palmer [:when you have this sort of, like, pseudo involvement of the federal government, sort of like what's everything wrong with health care.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, we want it to be we want it to be private, yet we want the government to pay for it. It's the worst of both with both worlds. So what we're talking about here is just that. If if Ohio had a Medicare benefit, and was and it was all just done within the state, so be it. You know, then we wouldn't have to we wouldn't give a crap what some other state is doing.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And the other state probably wouldn't care because it's their money. They wouldn't let it happen either. So instead, we've got this, ins like, we've we've created another layer of insulation for this sort of I'll call it not even malfeasance, but nonfeasance. People just don't give a crap.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. They don't.
Steve Palmer [:It's federal money. What do I care?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Speaking I mean, this if you guys don't mind, I'll I'll bring that speaking of Dave Yost, he is recently, pushing for reinstatement or for use. I mean, the death penalty never went away but they're not using it. And he's pushing that because I guess recently a state, carried out a death sentence using nitrogen which is obviously not a drug. It's not something, you know I mean, go to a welding shop and buy nitrogen. And, they basically put down the the incarcerated person using nitrogen. And so Dave, Dave Yost has been pushing the state legislature to specifically authorize that as a means to get around, governor DeWine's moratorium.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I read that article too and I I guess it's not just going out and getting the the the the can of nitrogen. Apparently, there are 3 or 4 companies that do this and or or have the opportunity to supply the mechanism to do it.
Brett Johnson [:Specializing it.
Norm Murdock [:And they're saying, we're not gonna do that anymore. We're not gonna sell the states. They're gonna stop it. They don't wanna be tied to the stigma. Yeah. We'll call it that. And I don't blame them. It's her business.
Norm Murdock [:It's their business.
Steve Palmer [:Or let's just say I you know, like, am I comfortable selling, giving you something that I know you're gonna use to kill another human being? I may or may not be. Now I could say, oh, it's a worthy cause. It's legal. Whatever. I'll give it to you, but I certainly don't have to.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right? Right. So Yeah. You know, that that's a solution, but I don't know if it's a solution that because of that situation. I don't know.
Steve Palmer [:I I
Norm Murdock [:I Again, the cost factor for keeping death row inmates is is is crazy.
Steve Palmer [:This is a very perspective of how you feel about the death penalty. It's it's it's an interesting
Brett Johnson [:Yes. You
Steve Palmer [:know, it is interesting. I I the this bigger picture, one of the things that I'd like about the the law and the legal system is that, particularly, the western legal system, that which was developed on this notion of common law, which we make the law Yeah. Day in, day out. My litigation against you against Brett. We go to court. There's a decision. Maybe it pushes the boundaries of the previous one. So now we're making some law.
Brett Johnson [:It's like sedimentary rock. It's an accretion.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And it and it just sort of moves and, you you know, does law follow social issues or do social issues for follow law. And it's both of them. And it's probably it's like this weird interaction. So, you know, it's in this is a perfect example of that. Death penalty is fallen out of favor. Like it or not.
Brett Johnson [:Yep. And the And the house may not like that. Yeah. So, we'll get a stat for you. Ohio has 336 people from 1981 to 2023. 336 were sentenced to death and 56 have been carried out.
Norm Murdock [:And I think we've had this conversation before whether, you know With our with our guests. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:With our We've talked to ourselves.
Norm Murdock [:That's excellent. Was is it a deterrent? It was set up as 1, but is it 1 now?
Brett Johnson [:Well, it certainly deters that particular criminal.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. You you know, there is I don't know. There's a
Brett Johnson [:My biggest problem is is that person really guilty because they have found guys who have been sentenced
Steve Palmer [:to death. Well and then with their
Brett Johnson [:DNA proving it's not them.
Steve Palmer [:How do you define really guilty? And people say, yeah. But I'm only talking about the really, really guilty ones. I was like, yeah. The problem is that's a hard line to draw. Just because you put really, really good front of the test. Right. Right. Really, really guilty.
Steve Palmer [:It was like we had 10 eyewitnesses and DNA, and then we had a confession. Alright. Well, you know that guy's guilty. But is that the new standard, 10 eyewitnesses DNA in a confession?
Brett Johnson [:Right. Is that
Steve Palmer [:the definite but it's not the standard.
Brett Johnson [:We've had guys in prison for 30 years
Steve Palmer [:Really?
Brett Johnson [:Come out of prison.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You bet.
Brett Johnson [:Right? Yeah. And my god. Think of that. 30 years in the camp. How does that happen? For an innocent person.
Steve Palmer [:I can give all sorts of reasons why it happens. We don't need to go into it, but it does happen.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, Paul Paul walked us through that.
Steve Palmer [:And the the, you know, the so only the really, really guilty we should kill. And now the problem is we've got to figure out how do we how do we define really, really guilty. And then that's a moving target
Norm Murdock [:as well.
Brett Johnson [:And and to Brett's point, the average death inmate incarceration before a date is even set is 21 years. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, they did they don't even get a date. I I think they
Brett Johnson [:said it. Over 2 decades.
Norm Murdock [:Probably die by suicide Or just old age? Or to old age before it even happens. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Well, anyway, it's interesting.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It is. No. No.
Brett Johnson [:No. If I can carry on, this is a little disturbing. So we've talked about abortion a 1000000 times. This is a little different. This is euthanasia. So and I don't mean young people in like China. I mean euthanasia. There you go.
Brett Johnson [:So 2 20 something, women, both of whom, suffer from autism, have submitted themselves, to be euthanized by the state, one in the Netherlands and one in Canada.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I've seen this.
Brett Johnson [:Dude, I cannot I gotta
Steve Palmer [:tell you. This this is I can't
Brett Johnson [:get I can't get that.
Steve Palmer [:Look. I I I can't get that. The problem with this is it's it's very similar to the death penalty problem, the standard that you're gonna permit it. So what if a like, if you would have asked me at different times in my life, how I feel about myself and what's going on. I mean, I've suffered from my own bouts with depression and ever. Yeah. You know, if you're permitted to make a decision like that at certain young stage in your life, you're gonna make that decision and then you never get a chance to recover from it. And it's, you know
Brett Johnson [:because you're dead.
Steve Palmer [:One of the one of the most simply appointed things I learned about death is that it's very permanent. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. I I caught this blip of, a scene from Yellowstone. And
Steve Palmer [:Oh.
Norm Murdock [:And and
Brett Johnson [:The TV show.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. The TV show. And the dad, what's his name, can't think of it anyway, is talking to his son. Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner's talking to the the the attorney's son who's I think must have been season 1 or something like that. He's gonna take his life.
Brett Johnson [:Because they're not talking anymore.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. So, you know, he's gonna take his life. Yeah. Sitting out in the, you know, beautiful field, that sort of thing. And and he talks him out of it, but he makes a comment saying, you know, this act defines you after you're doing it. Don't anything else before this, they forgotten.
Steve Palmer [:That's true.
Norm Murdock [:All they will remember you as is that you took your life. Yeah. That's all they'll remember you as.
Steve Palmer [:Wow. And and
Norm Murdock [:I thought that that's that's really poignant.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. You
Norm Murdock [:can't say that word this morning either.
Brett Johnson [:It is.
Norm Murdock [:But if you think about it, you're right. If somebody takes their life, that's what they're gonna find by. That's all you remember them on. That's it. Anything before that, what you've done, what you've done good, it's done.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. People are
Steve Palmer [:saying Or or there's an asterisk that you never overcome. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But he did this.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You know? Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I just thought that was really insightful. Just a well written moment. Yeah. Thinking, yeah, if that can but, yeah, that that's tough.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, autism. I mean, you know, I so I don't suffer from autism. I'm not even really sure what it is. It seems to be to be it seems like it's something that has really come on in the last Yeah. Few decades and has been diagnosed and and I I don't understand that.
Steve Palmer [:Tough life.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's a tough life.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So look, it's it's not that it it is a complicated argument except to say this. If you let one person do it, then it'll become a contagion, and other people will do it. Right. And it's like, oh, I can just kill myself and end it. And and it's almost like acting like it's okay. It's okay to say, I just wanna die. And I don't think it is okay to say that.
Steve Palmer [:We've all probably said it to ourselves at some point or another.
Brett Johnson [:That. Now if you're dying of cancer and you're you've gone gone through radiation and chemo and all that, and and and and it's just gonna be another 5 months of of of pain and torture, I could see an elderly person with cancer, maybe a medium age person with cancer Right. Saying, you know, turn off the machine. Let me wait.
Steve Palmer [:Are different scenarios. We're we're talking about somebody who's wholly healthy and able to live physically, and they just these people make a decision. So at what age is this okay?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Like, how old do you have to be to make decisions? And so
Brett Johnson [:what conditions?
Steve Palmer [:Is my 16 year old able to make that decision? Yeah. Because I know lots of teenagers who have gone through all sorts of depression that would have said, I'm just gonna kill myself if the parents said, that's okay. You know, let's just end your misery.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That'll be okay. And then they would do it.
Brett Johnson [:They would do it.
Steve Palmer [:It's sort of like cutting your genitals off.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right. They yeah.
Steve Palmer [:They'll do it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Because it's it's it's a tough road, but there it's it's just a journey we have to go through.
Steve Palmer [:Ask anyone who has been through depression and sort of come out the other side. They're gonna they're almost always gonna say they're better for it.
Brett Johnson [:Well, where's the Hippocratic Oath here? Do first, do no harm.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, see, but they're redefining standards, Norm. This isn't just they are saying that, that they believe they're doing no harm by letting somebody kill themselves. Wow. Because the morality that we rest upon, that life is sacred, that we're all sort of created in the image of God, that we all have this opportunity to live. If you if you don't believe those things, well, then just kill yourself. In fact, the lot a lot of these people now think there's just too many humans anyway. So why not? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Why not? Wow, man. It it's scary stuff.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It is it is totally scary.
Norm Murdock [:And I know oh, as we get closer to the end, obviously, we wanna talk about the eclipse coming up. You said something about that. Yeah. So so I didn't realize this that, the 18 06 solar eclipse,
Brett Johnson [:which, I remember that.
Norm Murdock [:The the the last total eclipse Ohio had was it's nicknamed I didn't know this was nicknamed the Tecumseh Eclipse.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, really? Interesting.
Norm Murdock [:So in 18/06, this very highlight, what's going on, You know, indigenous peoples such as Delawares, Iroquois, Miami, Senecas, Shawnee's Wyandotte's, we're all over the place.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah. The war of 18/12 hadn't happened
Steve Palmer [:yet.
Norm Murdock [:So the 18 06 solar eclipse held particular significance for the Shawnee brothers Tecumseh, and I'm really gonna butcher his brother's name, Tens Sequata. Sorry. Enough. Yeah. Tecumseh aimed to form a Native American Confederation to resist land loss, while his brother was known as the prophet and was really buying it. Tecumseh did was not at the treaty of Greenville in 17/95 due to lack of confidence in that whole field to
Steve Palmer [:it.
Brett Johnson [:And that's Greenville, Ohio.
Norm Murdock [:Correct. Yeah. So, governor William Harry Henry Harrison perceived the brother's efforts as a threat. So, in response to a challenge from Harrison, the prophet predicted the eclipse. And it's but speculated that it comes to learn that the clips from settlers or travelers. So he said, this is gonna happen and it's gonna happen and therefore, we should.
Steve Palmer [:So he used it he used it to gain credibility.
Norm Murdock [:Gain credibility Yeah. And and bring the the the tribe together.
Brett Johnson [:Shamans often did something
Norm Murdock [:like that. Oh, for sure. You're like, so that's why they call it that is because
Brett Johnson [:They had scientific knowledge that
Norm Murdock [:the way they look Because I guess at that time, in the 1800, there were, like, we have right now, Eclipse followers. They knew how this stuff was happening,
Steve Palmer [:and they're going all over the country I mean
Norm Murdock [:to to to see eclipse.
Brett Johnson [:It goes back to the Mayans Yeah. The the Celts.
Norm Murdock [:So it's it's always it was predictable.
Steve Palmer [:This is
Brett Johnson [:ancient stuff, the ancient Egyptians. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So so really interesting.
Brett Johnson [:All this stuff.
Norm Murdock [:Real interesting.
Brett Johnson [:I just gotta say one thing about the eclipse. I don't know where you guys are gonna be. I'm going to Painesville, Ohio. Oh, you're
Norm Murdock [:traveling a lot.
Steve Palmer [:Friend of
Brett Johnson [:mine in up there in the Cleveland suburbs invited me up. So,
Norm Murdock [:now how are you doing this then? You're gonna go up the day before and stay the day after?
Brett Johnson [:No. I'm gonna go up super Monday morning because it doesn't happen till, like, 3 in the afternoon.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. And you're planning to come back when?
Brett Johnson [:Well, I'm then I'm heading over to Michigan.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. Good.
Brett Johnson [:I'm doing a bunch of errands.
Norm Murdock [:Alright. There you go. But because traffic's gonna be crazy.
Brett Johnson [:But you guys I just wanna say this. You guys out there like like Norm here that have welding equipment in your garage and you're, I've seen this in previous clips, unless you have a number 14 or number 12 lens, which almost no welding kits come with because that's super dark. That allows almost no light through, and only really weird kinds of welding would demand that kind of lens. Unless you have a number 12 or number 14, don't use your welding helmet or goggles.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. They're selling glasses. I mean, the stores are selling the appropriate glasses. I I I presume we can trust those.
Norm Murdock [:Well, here's the I'm assuming so. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know if this hopefully, we can get this on before Monday at 3. But the ISO number, so the International Standards Organization number, is 12 312-two. That is the standard. 12312-two. That if you go to Tractor Supply or Kroger or wherever the hell you buy your little goggles or your lenses, make sure it has that ISO 12312 dash 2 on it, or else it it's not safe. I mean, that's the bottom line.
Norm Murdock [:So the prediction for Monday, just so you know folks, it's it's partly cloudy. Yeah. Mostly cloudy.
Steve Palmer [:I think
Brett Johnson [:the last one is So really And they're canceling reservations. I
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah. I'm going up for the beer and hotdog.
Norm Murdock [:But I think, you know, we had talked about, going back to the farm, which was the farm we own is West Central Ohio, right at the Indiana
Steve Palmer [:lawn. Perfect. And it
Norm Murdock [:would have been it would have been 4 minute darkness there. Yeah. But then I just realized I saw the map and going, well, it cuts Columbus in half and we can experience it for about a minute. That's good news. I'm cool. Yeah. I'm cool with the minute. Especially, if it's gonna be cloudy.
Norm Murdock [:I'm I'm fine.
Brett Johnson [:You catch the next one in 200.
Norm Murdock [:That's plan now. That's what I'm planning on, so I'm eating a lot healthier right now.
Steve Palmer [:I need a dose of common sense. Alright. Well, you got a word for the day?
Norm Murdock [:You know, I don't. I forgot. The word is be safe. How about that?
Steve Palmer [:The word be safe.
Norm Murdock [:Alright. Perfect. Eclipse. Eclipse.
Steve Palmer [:The word
Norm Murdock [:is be safe.
Brett Johnson [:A phrase, and it's kind of a news thing.
Norm Murdock [:To look one up.
Brett Johnson [:So if you guys heard of Havana Syndrome, that's where our diplomats have been claiming, like, in their embassies that the Cubans and the Soviet well, the Russians have bombarded them, and they've got these weird illnesses.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So Havana Syndrome, that's our phrase. The Pentagon came out this week and said it's real because a lot of people doubted. Like, oh, come on. You're not really getting radiated by the Russians. Turns out the Pentagon says it's a real thing.
Norm Murdock [:That's been going on a long time, hasn't it?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's been, like, the the conspiracy theories. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Because I remember hearing about that maybe 3 or 4 years ago. And it's like, that sounds pretty legit.
Brett Johnson [:I know.
Norm Murdock [:Because they they can't proven it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. At that point in
Norm Murdock [:time So
Brett Johnson [:they're aiming antenna array at our end
Norm Murdock [:of this day. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's what it was. Holy crap.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's insane.
Norm Murdock [:Alright. Jeez.
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. I think that's it. Have we have we covered it?
Brett Johnson [:I've just got one other thing, Steve.
Steve Palmer [:No one's got one more.
Brett Johnson [:Because you're a football guy. I am. I was. What is this deal with the NFL banning the pull down tackles? Like, they have now banned where where you wrap your arms around a guy's waist. And you know how hard it is to tackle somebody. It's chaos. If you can get any piece of that guy and bring him down, that's a tackle in the old days. They're saying now that too many knee injuries are happening by guys pulling by hitting low and pulling you down by the waist, and they're banning that.
Brett Johnson [:How in the hell can they ban that kind of a tackle?
Steve Palmer [:I don't know. That I I have not heard that. That's news to me. Yeah. Okay. Well, if
Brett Johnson [:you're not I mean, think
Steve Palmer [:of let's
Brett Johnson [:come back on a new
Steve Palmer [:We can think about it right now. It's like, you know, there was a time, like, the the the traditional form tackle was sort of standardized before there were face masks.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:So you had form tackles that protected the tackler and and as a result, it's a little bit safer for, the runner, I guess. And, you know, the this pull down from the waist, I mean, that would you could sort of see that as it I I I I'm not getting a new vision. It's almost a form tackle.
Brett Johnson [:Hitting center mass. You're rapping the guy.
Steve Palmer [:Leading with your head with your head down. People argue with me all the time. It's like, you know, getting rid of that. Like, because back in the the nineties, early 2000, when those big hitters would come along, they leave with their head. They didn't even wrap. They were just like torpedoes
Brett Johnson [:Yes. Spearing.
Steve Palmer [:Spearing. I mean, you know, I can see why that's not good.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's not cool.
Steve Palmer [:No. You can argue about the some of these calls that are
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. We're in the network.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But Yeah. You know, it's like but this is a weird one, man.
Brett Johnson [:This is weird. I think this is weird.
Steve Palmer [:Football, I I think it's one of those sports that if created today, it would be outlawed. I think Or
Brett Johnson [:it would be flag football.
Steve Palmer [:Or it'd be that's well, outlawed the way it is.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, that's what it's
Steve Palmer [:I also think that about driving. You know, if if cars were invented today, we wouldn't be allowed to drive. Yeah. It's just that these people's notions of what's safe and what's not. I mean, look, football is a violent, dangerous, unsafe, injury prone sport. It just is.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right? It's the Roman Coliseum.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Because it just is. I played the game and I got hurt. It's it's
Brett Johnson [:there's there's another rule too.
Norm Murdock [:Rule and they've been getting down to go into the deep rabbit hole of NFL, but the rules for kickoffs are gonna
Steve Palmer [:change too.
Norm Murdock [:The kicking team will kick off from its own 35 yard line. 10 members of the kicking team will line up on the receiving team's 40 yard line, 25 yards in front of their kicker.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So what happens Is
Norm Murdock [:this arena football stuff? Is that No.
Brett Johnson [:No. No. No. No. These guys are kicking way too deep now.
Steve Palmer [:What's happening is if if I if I'm kicking from my own 35 I read this, but I didn't dissect it. I'm gonna do this live.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Live
Steve Palmer [:in person. If I'm kicking from my own 35, but my kicking team, the coverage team is on the other side's 40. That's about what? 40 or how many yards ahead of me?
Norm Murdock [:15 yards against or 25 yards. 25 yards. Yeah. 25. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So what that prevents is the kickoff team from doing what I used to love to do. Get ahead of steam and just blast the crap out of whoever I was got the ball. Oh. I was the attack guy.
Brett Johnson [:They would murder people. Oh. Absolutely.
Norm Murdock [:So the fair catch that kind of that fair catch
Steve Palmer [:will feel too. Well, yeah. It it it it prevents people
Brett Johnson [:If he didn't, then you murder him.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So what I used to do, we used to line up in my job, like, everybody everybody's been on kickoff teams knows the the the old adage, stay in your lane. Stay in your lane. So every all the lanes are covered and don't don't over commit because then you get somebody who reverses the field comes back around you. My job was not to stay in my lane. We had a kickoff that was designed to go to the corner, and my job was to attack the football wherever it is. I was just that guy. We'd line up right next to the football.
Steve Palmer [:Alan Pujorilis was our kicker. He was the soccer kicker. And, I had a blast. It was it was joyous.
Brett Johnson [:You were the assassin. It was joyous. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. A
Steve Palmer [:full head
Brett Johnson [:of steam.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yep. And I got tackles. I mean, I was at one point, I had to blow the tackles in a game because we kicked off. I gotta tackle every time. Yeah. It was a blast.
Brett Johnson [:And you blow him up, man.
Steve Palmer [:And I got hurt.
Brett Johnson [:Blow the guy.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and I got hurt. I hurt my show I hurt my neck, and it's still to this day. You know? Wow. To this day. Because I got it. But everybody knows it's a stinger, and it never went away. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So it's like I hurt I got hurt. Yeah. Look. And I wouldn't have if I didn't do that.
Norm Murdock [:So it's actually protecting the offensive line as well too.
Steve Palmer [:It's protecting everybody. Oh. It's protecting again. It's protecting everybody. Now you could say now, look, that's the argument in favor. The argument against of it is, come on, guys. Football.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. It's football.
Brett Johnson [:You're not doing it unless you're defusing it again. The NFL's got this big push to bring women into football, and the way to do it would be to have flag football because then you'd have no contact.
Steve Palmer [:The way to do it is just to let one woman play as the rules are now.
Brett Johnson [:Well, okay. I mean, that's Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I agree with that. Then it'll never happen again.
Brett Johnson [:But I'm talking about
Norm Murdock [:well, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Then it would never happen again.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. I mean, look, it's it's like it's it's not even a criticism of women. Of course not. No. I couldn't go play the NFL.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I was not I was not equipped to play in the NFL. No. I'm a grown ass man who played football at a small college.
Brett Johnson [:It's like these crazy chance
Steve Palmer [:in hell I would have had
Brett Johnson [:to do that. Talking about that that girl from, young woman from Iowa, Caitlin, whatever her name is. Yeah. And they're saying, oh, she should just go right into the NBA. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I know she should.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, come on.
Steve Palmer [:No. This is like the McEnroe. Like, go listen to McEnroe's interviews about the the the greatest tennis players of all time. Yeah. And why didn't you pick a woman? He's like, because Yeah. You want the greatest woman of all time? I'll give you that. But you can't they're they're 2 different classes of analysis.
Norm Murdock [:And and both are fantastic in their field. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Of course.
Brett Johnson [:And by the
Norm Murdock [:way And by
Steve Palmer [:the way Serena, I think, has been in the news. I couldn't beat the best.
Norm Murdock [:I think I saw that too.
Brett Johnson [:The women's final four is in Cleveland, and their and the tickets are a $1,000. The mail the mail final 4 tickets are 7.50. Some people
Norm Murdock [:love it.
Brett Johnson [:They wanna see that girl from And that's I keep saying girl. Young lady from
Norm Murdock [:That's fantastic. That's great. I love it.
Brett Johnson [:It really is.
Steve Palmer [:Love it.
Brett Johnson [:It's kinda cool. That's great. Kinda cool. Yeah. And it's here in Ohio.
Steve Palmer [:And look, there's there's a there's a school of thought. I I I like I used to go watch the Capital University back when I was a kid. My dad taught at Capital University, and what we did every Tuesday I think it was, like, on Tuesdays Saturdays or Fridays they would play.
Brett Johnson [:Nice. And
Steve Palmer [:we would go watch to the point where I got to learn the team, and I knew the players, and I do whatever. Yeah. And it was like basketball. It was like, I don't wanna call it what's the movie? Hoosiers. Hoosiers?
Brett Johnson [:You know, like It was real basketball.
Steve Palmer [:Pass the ball. Yeah. They had to play. They had to dribble. Pace. Everybody slam dunks, and they would set up plays. And I learned their offense. And then, you know, Worcester, they I remember them playing Worcester, and Worcester used to stall before the shot clock.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, it was basketball. And sometimes women's basketball is a little bit like that. Like, it it's like they have to move the ball around. They they it's not just a
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:A run and gun slam dunk. It's fun to watch the run and gun slam dunk, but it's also this other like, watching women play and set up plays basketball. And watch watch the ball move around in in a way that that They don't travel. Strategically. Right.
Brett Johnson [:I mean Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:I mean,
Brett Johnson [:in the NBA, those guys are taking 3, 4 steps. They're not dribbling.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's crazy. It's a different game. It's a it's a sort of a game. So, anyway, alright. Well well, with that, we're really gonna wrap it up.
Brett Johnson [:Sorry. It's
Steve Palmer [:alright. I'm glad we talked about it. So common sense ohioshow.com where you can go check us out on our website and you can do lots of things there. You can subscribe, you can like, you can push it out to all your friends. Sure. Just everybody knows how to copy a link now and send it by text. Just go go and do that. Or if you wanna go to the podcast, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, wherever you get your podcast and subscribe, you can do that.
Steve Palmer [:We can help you do it at the website too. You can check us out on YouTube. Why? Because we are on video. That that's right. Video, folks. You can see us. You can look at clips on Facebook too. So lots of fun stuff going on.
Steve Palmer [:If you think you got the chops to hang with Norm here at the round table You don't. Trust me. It's hard. Every week. Every week. But, you know, you wanna be a guest, you got something to offer, or you want a topic to cover, just shoot us an email at commonsense ioshow.com. We're happy to do it. You can also become a sponsor like Harbor Plus.
Steve Palmer [:You know, he's got we can move him aside, you
Brett Johnson [:know, nudge him over there, find
Steve Palmer [:some sponsorship opportunities. So
Brett Johnson [:$1,000,000? Come on. You know?
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, if you're, if you're TurboTax and you wanna sponsor us, then, you know, I'll be your guy. I'll I'll love that program if you give us a $1,000,000. My problem. Fine. So with that, we're here coming at you right from the middle each and every week, at least until now.
