The international retirement of Cheteshwar Pujara marks a significant milestone in the landscape of Indian cricket, as he steps away from the sport after an illustrious career that has spanned over a decade. Throughout this episode, we delve into the ramifications of his retirement, reflecting on his pivotal role as a stalwart in the Test format, particularly during India's recent triumphs overseas. Furthermore, we engage in a comprehensive discourse regarding the selection of the Indian squad for the upcoming Asia Cup, analyzing the strategic decisions made by the selectors. We also preview the much-anticipated Women's World Cup to be hosted in India, considering the potential impact of this tournament on the growth of women's cricket in the region. Join us as we navigate through these pressing topics, celebrating Pujara's contributions while contemplating the future of Indian cricket across both men's and women's formats.

Hello and welcome to the Last Wicket.

I'm your host, Benny.

Thank you for joining us.

And before we get into the crux of what we're going to be talking about, let me welcome my co host, Mike.

Hey, Mike.

Hey, Benny.

Good to be back.

Yeah.

So yesterday I wake up to a news article that says tributes start pouring in for Pujara.

And my instant reaction was like, oh, no, did he die?

Oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

That's dark.

But I'm so used to saying, like, you know, bad news online these days that my brain is just so wired to.

You hear the word tributes and you just think someone's dead.

But I'm.

I'm glad to report that all's well with Pujara and.

Well, all's well with Pujara, but in slightly.

Well, I guess the mixed news, I guess he has stepped down or he's retired from all forms of cricket.

Now, obviously Pajaro was not necessarily in the picture as far as Indian team was concerned over the last couple of years, but.

And I'm sure we'll talk more about it, but he obviously was a huge.

A central figure to India's successes in the test format over the last decade.

So we'll talk all about that.

But I just wanted to quickly just read his announcement, his retirement announcement here, so he had posted on Instagram.

As a little boy from the small town of Rajkot, along with my parents, I set out to aim for the stars and dreamt to be a part of the Indian cricket team.

Little did I know then that this game would give me so much invaluable opportunities, experiences, purpose, love, and above all, a chance to represent my state and this great nation.

Wearing the Indian jersey, singing the anthem, trying my best each time I stepped on the field, it's impossible to put into words what it truly meant.

But as they say, all good things must come to an end.

And with immense gratitude, I have decided to retire from all forms of Indian cricket.

I would like to thank the BCCI and Sarasha Cricket association for the opportunity and supports for my cricket career.

I'm equally grateful to all the teams, franchises and counties I've been able to represent over the years.

I wouldn't have made it this far without the invaluable guidance of my mentors, coaches and spiritual guru.

To them, I shall always remain indebted.

I just wanted to read this announcement because, you know, usually when cricketers retire, they obviously will put out a statement on social media that's saying pretty much all the Stuff that, you know, just stated in his announcement.

But the thing about Pujara.

And again, we'll talk more about this.

One of his qualities, there's always been a very straightforwardness with him.

Like everything comes.

Seems to come from a genuine place, at least it appears to be so and so when I read this announcement, I, I couldn't help feeling a little sad because he did seem to be.

He didn't seem to fit in the stereotype of the typical Indian cricketer that we now come to associate with.

Right.

He's not flashy, he's not like an IPL star and he's almost like a throwback to the older era, you know, the Tendulkar Dravid era.

And so him realizing that it's time to hang up his boots and not just like, play domestic cricket, but just be like, done with it all.

It's just like an end to an intriguing chapter in Indian cricket.

So let's start with what was your reaction when you heard about Bajar's retirement?

Yeah, I mean, as you said, no surprises as such.

But, yeah, it was, it was a good moment to just reflect back on our tremendous career, lovely achievements, great series wins and to which he's contributed immensely and, yeah, really been, you know, that supporting role to, to the 4, 5, 6 of the Indian batting lineup by soaking up the ball, soaking up good spells and, and really setting them up for success over 103 Test matches, which is, again, a phenomenal achievement.

And, yeah, in many ways, you know, I, I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit more on this.

But just his style of batting, he was a little bit of a throwback, as you said.

There were probably three or four other batters or there are three or four other batters in world cricket today who bat like him.

But it's, yeah, it's getting fewer and fewer due to multiple reasons.

And it was, Yeah, I think he, for me personally, like, he replaced Rahul Dravid, who was my hero growing up.

And I never thought that I would, you know, really start admiring somebody who took Rahul Ravit's place.

But it really did not take long to fall in love with Chiteshwar Bajara.

Now what do you, when you see those numbers, do you think that's an accurate reflection of Pujara's desk career?

Yeah, that's going to be a tough one because I think the wickets have changed so much in this last decade.

Recently, Ravi ashwin on his YouTube channel who hosted Rahul Dravid and even they were acknowledging the fact that the pitches in this era have been so much more challenging than Rahul David's era.

And of course Bajara being the number three will be compared to Rahul Dravid.

He has the second most runs for India at number three.

So he's obviously up there.

I think numbers wise he's a better batsman than that average of 43.

There's very little doubt about it.

And the easiest way to call that out is looking at his performances in Australia.

The last two tours against one of the best.

Well, I, I would actually call it the best bowling lineup.

I wouldn't even say one of the best.

I would say the best bowling lineup, the most balanced bowling lineup.

He just showed up and batted with a lot of patience and you know, tired them down.

Which is why we, we had such a great success winning two back to back series down under which no other Asian team has won even a single one.

So I think that to me tells me that he's closer to Rahul Driver than most people think.

And I, you know, I think there's probably thoughts of entertaining that he's achieved.

You know, whether as a quality of batter is if is he as good as rolled out or was he as good as I'll do?

Maybe not just because Roalder had also had the one day game to back up, but, but in terms of achievements in his test career, I, I really do think that he's done some things which even Raul Rabbit could not.

Yeah, let's get into it.

I know that one of the first things that you were interested in talking about was, you know, just first memories of Pujara when he burst onto the scene.

Why don't, why don't you go first and then I'll share mine.

It was, I believe his first international 50.

So it's not something that people are going to forget anyways.

But I think the reason why it also remains really memorable to me is Rahul Dravid was struggling a little bit for form and he was playing that game and I think he had not scored too many in the first innings.

And during the chase, which was a tricky chase on a tricky pitch, a fourth innings chase, Pujara was promoted and asked to bat at number three instead of Dravid.

And he batted with just amazing fluency.

Like the way he handled spin.

And that of course is not a one off.

He did that, that for majority of his career, the way he had handled Mitchell Johnson, it was really, really great.

And he scored 72 of, if I remember right, 89 or 90 balls and very, very fluent innings.

And just remember that very quickly, very vividly, I should say.

And I, during that time he had such a proven track record from a first class perspective that there were people who had been, you know, bloggers like us who had been constantly talking about pujara.

I remember BCCI, the bored cricket channel, that, that's still on YouTube.

Gaurav Sethi, who's, who's runs that used to have posters of Chadeshwar Pujara at that time calling him Che Guevara.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah.

So he, he had, he came with a lot of anticipation and so many times we've seen youngsters come in with all this anticipation and just disappointing, but Pujara just walked in as if, yep, he belonged.

So, yeah, that, that is definitely my first memory.

And it clearly felt that he had arrived.

I echoed all of that because literally my first memory of Pujara was that same Test match.

I remember there was a lot of buzz around Pujara and to me it was extra, you know, memorable just because, you know, like you said, Dravid was struggling for form, but just in general, you know, a generation of Indian batterists were coming towards the end of their career.

I mean, Sachin Tendulkar just like a couple of years out, maybe from retiring from Test cricket as well.

So it was just a time of overdue transition almost where we needed know, new players to come and step up.

And you know, we, at that point we were wondering who is going to fill the shoes of a Droit?

Who's going to fill the shoes of Tendulkar, Lakshman and to some extent Gangli, you know, and we were looking for this place and obviously the Rohits and the Khis were always there but we still needed someone solid in, you know, in, in Test, in the Test format.

And so when Pujara came in, there was a lot of expectations.

I personally was hoping that if you can be as half as good as Ravid, that's fine.

You know, we just need Someone very stable and like secure.

And that second innings I still remember, you know, even though it was like almost 15 years ago now, I still remember the, the sense of almost inevitability that he was batting with.

You know, like when he played the strokes he was like he not necessarily a full blown veteran but he looked very comfortable.

He looked like he belonged to in international cricket.

And just knowing that is just the start.

And just by that innings alone, you know, in the second innings I was like, okay, I think India's got us number three for at least a short while and of course he's gone on to do so much more but.

And he's also seems to be one of those cricketers who almost seem to be very steady.

If you look at his career arc, you know, some unlike, let's take the example of a Virat Kohli, like when he started out, not the best start to his test career, right?

Whereas with Pujara, at least anecdotally when I think about it, it seemed like a very steady like straight line and then that final dip.

So yeah, he is just that one cricketer that, you know, when you talk about filling the shoes of Dravid or a Tendulkar and obviously Kohli and Tendulkar, that's a different conversation for another day.

But I think Pujara more than adequately was able to step in into Dravid shoes.

And England was obviously a really good side with the likes of Alistair Cook and Kevin Peterson and, and Monty Banister and all those, all those guys and Graham Swan of course.

But during that series when India went down 1, 2, it was obviously very shocking to see all these experienced head heads and of course the likes.

Well, I guess Tendulkar was still there.

Drive it in.

Lakshman had retired but Tendulkar was there and Kohli was there.

Pujara was there and Pujara was really the only one who was standing tall in that Test series as well.

So I think it was another sign that, you know, while there was still a lot more trust in Kohli, considering he had been already a World cup winner and done extremely well in the One day format.

At that point there was still questions around some of the other younger batters, but Pujara again stood tall.

He scored 200 in that first match and won in the other game which is why we got the series lead.

So yeah, he didn't take a lot of time to adapt to the, to international cricket, particularly at home, which sometimes is, you know, looked down upon by Indian fans, which we're the only, we're the only fan base that looks down on our players for performing at home.

Like pretty much everybody else.

Just, just, you know, loves seeing David Warner scoring 1/ hundreds after 100 in Australia or you know, whoever else, Ben Duckett scoring hundreds in England.

Nobody, nobody has a problem with that.

But we looked down on that and, and it's unfortunate because see that those were some really, really great performances against good quality attacks.

Some of the tracks were tricky as well.

Yeah, so a really good steady start and didn't obviously have the peak that Virat Kohli had.

Like there was, there was no year where he was averaging 90 or anything like that, but nonethele, he was consistent performer and despite his methods he found ways to succeed.

Has 100 in Joburg, has hundreds in England.

Even though he was probably not at his best, he found ways to just support the team and make sure he contributes enough so that it's easier for the likes of people, Pant and others to, to make merry once the ball got older.

So yeah, conquered all, all conditions from that perspective, despite having somewhat conventional technique in a, in a tough batting era.

And I wanted to very quickly react to what he just said about, you know, like, as Indian fans in general, we seem to be harsher on players who perform well at home compared to, you know, abroad.

They rarely saw overseas draws for that matter.

You know, as an Indian fan, you just accepted at, at a certain phase that India will do well at home.

Just bring on the turning tracks, unleash the Kumblays and the harbingens and you know, we'll win comfortably at home and then because overseas will go and get thrashed anyway.

Right.

So I think it became easy to take for granted the performances at home and then when suddenly the Indian team started performing well overseas now just seemed to be like an overcorrection in terms of reaction where suddenly we only started talking About Sena, like performances in Sena countries and suddenly performances, India didn't matter or didn't matter as much, which is unfortunate.

But I think that is why.

And Pujara is actually like a very.

Is probably like the last of that generation for whom that will actually somewhat come close to mattering.

Because obviously this current generation of cricketers, you know, they've grown up in a very good time.

And India's, you know, for the last 10 or so years have been way, way better overseas than, you know, the generation before.

So I think that'll be the last.

That'll be the last time we'll see that kind of.

I'm hoping that'll be the last time you'll see that kind of reaction.

But of course, fandom is very fickle.

So let's talk about his.

I guess let's talk about any knocks that kind of stood out for you.

Honestly, for me, it's just one.

Not, not to say, obviously he's had so many high quality knocks, but in terms of memorable knocks, because again, Pujara is not the kind of.

It's not a Kohli, right?

He doesn't have like innings that make the highlight reel, for instance, or for, for that matter, even like he's not even like a Rahane, right?

Like Rahane, obviously, whose record is not as impressive as a Puja or Kohli.

Still, he, you know, you can watch him bad all day long, whereas Pujara, like, nobody wants to watch him bad.

But you still need his performances, obviously.

And we've, you know, everyone will remember punts, heroics, Sherman Gilchnock at the top of the order, Washington Center's Hooked 6.

You know, those indelible memories, but the ones that don't will not always make the highlights real.

Or if it does, it'll be more for the knocks that he took, you know, rather than for the runs that he scored.

Pujara's 56, that, that was very instrumental in stabilizing one end.

And I think that knock in many ways was a perfect representation of Pujara's role in the Indian team over the years.

Because yes, he, he, he always liked, sucked up, you know, like whenever the opposition like got into groove, he was able to like kind of just get stuck in at one end and make sure that the other batters could almost like Bat around him and he would get the runs.

The big centuries, sure, all of that.

But more than anything else, it seemed like his role in the Indian team was just to be like, essentially Dravid 2.0, where just be like, the rock, just like, hold up one end, let the other, you know, flashier batsman get going at one end.

So that knock kind of was a perfect encapsulation of Pajara's career.

And more than anything else, it was what the team wanted from him.

Because I think there will be many who argue that Pujaro, like, when he gets going, he's.

He can be pretty, you know, like, very flamboyant in his stroke making as well, but we rarely got to see that.

And so I think that knock in Brisbane for me will always be like, if I was to pick one knock, I would pick that one because that was so instrumental in India winning that game and series.

But people will always talk about Pant and Gil to some extent, and Pujara will just be like the.

The guy who took all the body blows and contributed to some extent like that.

That is Pujara's career in a nutshell.

Yeah, that was.

That was definitely a great knock.

I think the key thing to remember there is, like, he definitely has the pull shot.

He's played that in so many innings before and after, and he just decided it was too risky for this situation and decided to just keep taking it on his body.

And I don't know the count, but it was quite a few knocks that he.

Quite a few blows that he had.

And he wasn't even trying to defend it because they had a short forward shot leg for him.

So really, really brave knock.

And, you know, it speaks to his grit.

Again, Australia being his favorite nemesis.

And that series in particular was such a fantastic series.

It was, you know, very closely fought.

The pitches were pretty tiring as well, pretty tough as well.

So, you know, there were.

There was a situation in Pune where I think India was bundled out for 108.

And we were at a point about to lose a series at home, which at that point was, you know, extremely rare, especially considering that team, the likes of Ashwin Jadeja, Pujara, Kohli Rahane, all of them close to peak, with KL Rahul doing really well as well.

So that was a great team with, of course Umesh Yadav and Ishan Sharma to support.

And they were on the risk.

They were at the risk of Losing that series.

And Pajara just batted and batted and batted at Ranchi.

He played the longest innings that an Indian has ever played over 525 balls or 525 balls and he scored double.

Hundred batted really well with Riddhiman Saha at a point when the game was actually pretty, pretty much in Australia's favor.

They had scored 400 and they were in a really good position.

So there's a really good chance that we could have lost that game and, and the series could have been all wide open.

But that in my mind was a critical knock because again, one of those knocks where it just never, he just never felt out of control.

You know, it felt like whatever they could throw at him, whichever spinner came onto bowl, it just felt like he was completely in control.

Do you think that we ever got to see a Pujara in full flow in the sense that.

Did you ever think that he was holding himself back because the requirements of the team, the demands of the team was such that he had to essentially shelve any kind of attacking instincts even if it were to kind of like come forth.

Because I remember there was this huge controversy at one point with like Kohli and Ravi Shastri where I think it was implied that they were not happy with his, you know, his, the rate that he was scoring runs at.

Do you think that was very intentional or it was just him recognizing his strength was just to like just hang in there?

I mean, I think it was somewhat intentional.

I will say that I.

In the big, at the beginning of his career, he did play a lot more strokes.

Same thing with the 72 that we discussed.

72 of 90 odd or 89 balls.

So that was a very free flowing innings.

So he certainly had the capability when you know, of course the pitches weren't ranked Turners, but I think he definitely shelved it to, to maximize his chances.

On his YouTube channel, had a really interesting like he had a bunch of interviews so some with R. The fielding coach.

Then he even had the batting coach join him.

And one of the things they discussed there was why does Pujara not step down to a spinner and hit them over mid wicket?

And you know, they, they were talking about how they keep pushing and asking Pujara to do that because they know he can.

But he just never takes the spinner on.

And his response where it was a very measured, well, if I hit them up for a four, they're going to put a field on the boundary and then I'm going to get only one run.

Instead, I'm going to keep chipping down and pushing it for two every single time.

And they're not going to put a field around the boundary.

So it was, like, obvious these cricketers think about every little aspect of their game.

And, you know, that was also well thought.

And I think it, to some extent, I see Ravi Shastri's point and I.

And I say that because that was the time when pitches started getting really, really bowling friendly.

2017 is when, you know, like the likes of Jared Kimber and some others call, you know, the base bowling pandemic.

And they say that because, yeah, bowling was.

The bowling depth in various teams was very good.

Every team had four really good fast bowlers.

The pitches were really friendly.

So 220, 250 was a good total.

And in that era, it was almost as if there's a ball with your name on it.

If you just try to keep bat, keep batting.

And that's certainly the period where he got a little bit stuck, you know, trying to rotate, strike or contribute a lot.

But having said that, he came back really strongly in that same series, the fourth Test, which I was lucky to watch live, he scored 135.

And so it was a strong comeback from that perspective.

He showed that he.

His methods could still work.

And in that innings, he did bat a little bit faster.

So whether it was the right way of pushing Pujara by Ravi Shastri is, you know, only he can.

The man can tell.

But.

But I definitely see the point that they were making considering how pitches were getting more and more challenging.

And that's the push and pull, isn't it?

Because everybody talks about play your natural game.

Like, don't do something that doesn't come naturally to you.

Like, play to your strengths and that that'll help more, more than not.

But then on the other hand, you also have to balance, like, your team's requirements of that particular.

Be it a series, be it a game, it's like what you need.

Like, and sometimes as fans, we look at stuff from the outside and it's Easy to criticize a player for either like batting too slow.

But what if it was a team requirement or the teams ask.

Now obviously in this situation it's slightly different because the team did want him to score faster.

But it's about a player trusting his, his game.

I personally think I would lean more towards a player playing his national game and trying to make that fit within your team's plans rather than trying to, you know, force the player to change what's brought them success so far.

Speaking of which, you know, like, you know, Pujara says, Pujara said in his announcement that all good things must come to an end.

And I think it did come to an end a lot sooner.

Said what any of anyone, any of us would have liked.

What, what is the big factor that you would ascribe to his downturn in form over the years?

And kind of, you know, he, he didn't feature India's plans over the last two years or so.

And even, you know, the most recent England series, you know, India was searching for a number three.

In fact, we can say that since Pajara has been out of the team, India's not found a suitable number three.

And so they never went back to him even though he was scoring bucket loads of runs.

And county cricket.

What do you ascribe that downturn and that kind of hastening of his career?

I mean, I do think that, you know, towards the end of the career the reflexes, the eyesight do weaken and that's been true for most batters in history, like 34, 35 plus their eyesight, their reflexes definitely start to go down.

On top of that, opposition bowlers have a lot more information on what a player likes, doesn't like and all of that.

So there's that sense of targeting their specific weaknesses.

So that definitely plays those two things definitely play an aspect.

But the third thing is very much what I just talked about, like the pitches.

Dravid recently mentioned that, you know, in his time the goal was to win a test series, like a three test series or four test series, one nil or two nil.

Like they knew that there would be a couple of really flat pitches.

So if Pujaro was playing in that era, I think he could have been playing even today, even till the age of 37.

But the truth is like he was playing in A much more tougher era where, as I said, there's always a ball which is going to have your name on it.

So you had to sort of understand that.

Yep.

In certain conditions, like in Australia, for example, it makes sense because the kookaburra stops doing too much after the 30, 35 over mark.

Um, and, and so in those conditions, it made a lot of sense to have somebody like Pajara because he would just, you know, bat that period out.

Even if he scored 40 or 50 runs, he would make things a lot easier for others.

But in a lot of other conditions, they realize that the conditions are not really getting any better.

So even if somebody gets 30 or 40 balls, that's as good as Pujara getting 30 of 100 balls.

It's not really changing the conditions or making it easier for the next battery.

And they decided to look, look, you know, move on from him.

So I, I think it was a fair call overall.

I think his game, you know, while had.

It had deteriorated maybe slightly, I think the, the cricket, the way it was played, moved on from him.

That's just the unfortunate part of it.

It's, you know, it's the same way how you might have some.

Somebody who is an excellent ODI player today.

And yeah, the game's just shifted to T20 cricket and there's very few ODIs and scoring rates in ODIs are much higher.

So suddenly that player finds himself out of favor.

It's that sort of a situation.

The game has just evolved a little bit differently with World Test Championship and the need to win every home game.

Every team is preparing really spicy pitches and that certainly caused his downfall.

Yeah, I'm glad.

I'm sure it would have been kind of a tempting idea to go back to Pujara recently, especially for the most recent England tour.

But for all the reasons you mentioned, I think it was, it was for the best.

But that doesn't in any way diminish what he has achieved, especially when he was at the height of his powers.

And, you know, you had an interesting question.

Are we going to see batters of his pedigree or style anymore?

I think.

I think we will.

You know, I'm.

I'm cautiously optimistic that there is still room for his style of batting.

And obviously we're talking about Test cricket because that style is not any more valid for the shorter forms.

But, you know, sometimes I look at players around in other.

For other teams in international cricket today and I'm like, who else is out there who can, you know, who can bat like long and who can kind of weather the storm, you know, like, it seems like most batters who are raised up on this diet of T20 cricket, if they're under strife for a certain amount of time, they try to hit out, right?

In many ways, that's almost the ethos of basketball where it's like, listen, rather than, you know, taking 20, 30 balls without scoring a run and then getting out, why don't you just like, for those 20, 30 balls, you could probably convert into 40, 50 runs and then get out.

Whereas someone like Pajara that the batter of his better grant, you know, that's how most batters used to be in Test cricket for decades.

It's like, see out the new ball or just like if the batter, if the bowlers are on top, just hang in there, let them, let them give you everything that they've got.

But all you need to do is just hang in there.

I think there's still room for.

Because that adds flavor to Test cricket.

If everyone starts scoring at a strike rate of 100, it's not fun anymore, Right?

Which is why I've sometimes struggled with basketball for that reason.

It sure is entertaining up to a certain extent.

But after point is like when you see scores of 300 or 400 continuously, you know, in one day cricket or scores of 200 in T20, if that happens again and again or it happens frequently, it loses its charm, right?

And I think there's something about a batter who just like stays there all day, just blocks you.

And like, you know, Australian bowlers to this day, they talk about, you know, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazelwood, all of them talk about the trauma of having to bowl to Pujara, knowing that he's neither gonna get out, he's not gonna score runs, he's just gonna be there like a thorn in your.

And it goes beyond just run scored, it goes to how you, you know, disrupt the momentum or affect the morale of the opposition where they're just like, you know, just mentally exhausted as well.

Now, as a question for the question of are there batters of that style?

I think there are, I think there are a lot of them in domestic cricket, but I think we tend to lean towards the ones who make the name in IPL and who are really attractive stroke players.

I, I, I, I'm very optimistic.

I think we right now, obviously, India has struggled to find someone like Bajara, but I would be shocked if there was no one like that in domestic cricket anymore.

I can't think of any name right now, obviously, because then that person would probably have made it to the Test squad by now, but I would think there's someone out there grinding away patiently, just waiting for their chance.

Yeah.

Can you think of any players like Bajara these days, even in, among other teams?

Yeah.

So I think the two people that came to mind right away was Usman Kwaja.

Definitely still a very traditional bat.

Takes a lot of time and, you know, strike rate in the 30s, late 30s, high 30s, low 40s.

Craig Brathwaite was the other one that came to mind.

That's right.

So there's, there's definitely a few which are still batting in, in that method.

But remember, Craig Brathwaite has just lost the captaincy for West Indies.

West Indies, anyways don't play a lot of Test cricket.

Usman Khwaja is 38, if I am right, maybe even 39.

He's struggling for runs too, and he's struggling for runs.

So there's a good chance that within maybe like after the Ashes at the end of the year, if he does get picked, that might be the end of Kwaja.

So all in all, I think that style of batting is definitely phasing away and I, I really do think it has a lot to do with the whole emphasis on winning every home test and trying to make it to the WTC final.

Right.

I think unless the pitches change.

You know, obviously England is, is not picking up Pujara, like batter, like a Dom Sibley or somebody like that anymore because of their strategy and they're, you know, making sure the pitches are according to that.

They're flat wickets.

But yeah, I really don't see any major players coming through which bat in that fashion.

You know, somebody like Joe Root, who was not Pujara, you know, didn't have a strike rate like Bajara, but still a traditional batter, even he's adapted to his team's new mantra.

So, so all in all, I, I do think that's gonna go down and down.

And, and, and the other aspect is I think youngsters nowadays, even if, let's say they only want to play Test cricket and they're, they don't really want to play IPL, the truth is like at 8, 9, 10, they're going to play T20 cricket.

They're going to see hitting and power hitting and all of these things being inculcated in their routines, so they're going to have more stroke play than usual.

Now, does that mean that they, you know, like Sai Sudarshan in the England series, you know, he scored 26 of 88 balls so he took his time when getting in, obviously that he has a proven IPL record so he can play his shots.

But maybe some of them do find the balance and, and make it to test cricket.

But I do feel it's gonna really, you know, be a big question based on the pitches that we are going to see in the next few years.

Well, on that note, let's go to, you know, just the Indian Test team of the last decade, decade and a.

Half.

Or even just when Pujara, since Pujara made his debut, obviously we talked about, you know, the Kohli Rahani, the Ashwin generation, like how they found the core of this team along with Bajara to form.

I think in, in my memory as an Indian cricket fan, I don't think I've seen a better Indian testing than the one that was under Kohli.

And to me, Pujara was such an integral part of that Test site, integral to its successes and it, it again, now we see one by one, all of those cricketers kind of stepping away either from all formats or just like, you know, the, the Test format.

How do you reflect back on, on that era for Indian Test cricket?

You know, two series wins in Australia will be disappointed that they didn't come away with a win in South Africa and England.

But nonetheless they had some really great contests there, won good games.

If I remember right, that was Murley's last series.

Incredible record at home, obviously that, you know, we lost our first series just last year after Puja had already left.

So just quite an outstanding team from India standpoint.

Probably the best, definitely the best Test team India has ever had and arguably like the top three in cricket history.

Because if you look at, you know, obviously people talk about the West Indies of the past, Pakistan of the 90s, Australia, many of those teams are really, really great.

Undoubtedly, like, we're going to have a dip, and I think we're in that dip already.

We saw, like a tough series in Australia played out.

We somehow managed to draw the series in England thanks to some incredible individual performances.

But, yeah, it's going to take a little bit to form that core again, make sure people know their roles and find that right strategies long term so that the newcomers all settle in and find their spots.

And of course, all of this also depends on, you know, a lot of people always forget, like, they'll say, oh, India's number one, or was number one in these last few years because the other teams are crap.

Well, they look crap because the Indian team is much better.

So it's all relative.

For me, as an Indian cricket fan, the barometer for success is how teams do in Australia.

Right.

Because growing up, you couldn't beat Australia like, you went to Australia.

If the Indian team toured Australia, it was just like, they're gonna get thumped.

It's gonna be a wide watch, for sure.

It's just gonna be like, question of how badly.

And, you know, I still remember those, you know, the 99 horror series.

And then you know, just subsequently, like every tour, even if they managed to win one game here and there, they would still get beaten.

And that was.

That wasn't that a drawn series?

Yes.

And to me, that was like, okay, it's possible to draw a series and not just lose.

So the fact that as an Indian cricket fan, when you've been watching Australia demolish all the other teams and you're just like, glad that India can at least beat them at home, to the point where in the last three tours, India's tour of tours of Australia, India's won two of them, and we could.

We take that for granted now.

And we're like, we were mad when they didn't win in the recent one, but I'm like, why are we, you know, the fact that we're even having this conversation that we're like, mad at the Indian team for not winning when for the longest of times you couldn't even think about winning in Australia.

That's how much the Indian team has improved over the last decade, where we're taking.

Taking this for granted.

And so I will always miss that moment.

And I think as Indian cricket fans, we just need to realign our expectations because obviously you got a new coach, you got a very new and young captain.

We're still trying to fit in or fill in the, you know, the number three position.

We're trying to find reliable bowlers to help Bumra.

And I know we have Siraj and, you know, we have spinners like Sundar and Kuldeep and all of that, but they don't yet have the pedigree that, you know, the legends like Ashwin and Jadeja had for the longest of time.

We don't have players of the pedigree of, you know, Kohli and Rahane, let alone, if you want to talk about Tendulkar and Ravid.

So there's a lot of work to be done for the Indian Test team, but I remain optimistic because the one good thing about having a very young and inexperienced team is, like, you can only get better, you can only gain more experience.

And so I think we just have to realign our expectations.

I don't think they're gonna make it to the next WTC final, let alone will it win it.

But I think if they can hold on or develop a core around which they can build and get more players, fill the slots, I think we can get back to that golden era of Indian Test cricket.

But definitely need to realign our expectations.

So let's jump from this format to the shortest format of the game.

Obviously, something that's been in the news over the last few days has been the selection for the Asia cup, for the men's Asia Cup T20 squad.

What are your thoughts on it?

I was a little surprised to see Shman Gil back.

Not, you know, I mean, I really like Shan Gil and I think he says capabilities are, you know, he's an immense player.

I feel like he's going to figure out every format.

I. I don't doubt that.

But considering how well India has done in the past, you know, year.

And so, like, even after the World cup, when we had a couple or three people retiring in Jadeja, Rohit and Kohli and we had people come in like Abhishek Sharma and they've filled those slots really well, they've done exceptionally well.

And I was very surprised to see Gil back and not just like even if you were thinking, hey, this guy's in, in the form of his life and maybe there's a chance, you know, if somebody like Sanjay Sampson has a bad run, we'll try him in, I would still understand.

But the fact that he was also made vice captain surprised me quite a bit.

I, I think really India's only weakness from a T20 lineup perspective was the fact that they're 8, 9, 10, 11, do not bat at all.

Like we have scenarios where Kuldeep is walking in at 8 and not to.

I think he's a decent batter from, you know, if you're trying to defend the ball, but he's not a hitter at all.

Bumra would sometimes batted nine or 10 in that lineup and, and again, he's not a really a guy who can bat.

So the batting depth is really the only issue that India had and somehow they decided to try and fix something else, which surprised me quite a bit.

So these are the bowlers we have.

So Akshar Patel, Kuldeep Yadav, Harshit Rana, Jaspreet Bumra, Arshdeep Singh, Varun Chakravarti, I guess you could argue Akshar Patel, it's, you know, it's an all rounder.

He can bat a bit.

Abhishek Sharma, he doesn't really bowl as much, but either way he's at the top of the order as well.

And Shivam Dubey, I mean he's really a batter who can bowl every now and then.

So you're right, there's not a lot of batting which I think, you know, the, the batters really have to do the heavy lifting.

You would hope that they perform so well that, you know, we can afford to just play with seven players who can bat and not have to rely on the bowlers.

There was a lot of talk about, okay, let's talk about Shipment Gill first.

I am actually happy that he's back in the T20 squad because I really feel he is, he has the potential to be an all format great eventually over time.

Should he be the vice captain?

That I guess is debatable, but I understand the reasoning for it.

I mean, if he did not have the England series that he just had, they probably would have been like, all right, let's let him work on his, you know, his test format captaincy.

But I think we're all on that high of like that drawn series with Shipment Gill just having a bumper series with a bat and suddenly it's all, you know, if you're like buying stocks, like you're gonna buy stocks and ship and gift and so it kind of makes sense.

And obviously Surya Kumar Yadavis, you know, he's the quote unquote wrong side of 30s.

He probably will have what, one or two more T20 World Cups in him.

And I think they're looking for a long term successor and obviously Hardik Pandya for whatever reason has fallen out of favor.

Akshar Patel is there, but I don't know if they, it seems like they're only looking at him as a top gap replacement whenever the big players, the senior players arrest.

So I understand the reasoning that they feel like Shipment Gill can really take over since he already is captain of the test side and it's in all likelihood going to take over from Rohit whenever Rohit is done.

Which brings into question is it wise to have one player as captain across all three formats?

Because I don't think any other team does that anyway.

I think every major team now is that's kind of split it in some form or the other.

But personally I'm fine, I'm fine with Sherman Gill back.

I know that stock, you know how it will displace, you know, Abhishek and Sanjay Sampson's partnership at the top.

But if it was anyone else, I probably would have been like why are we breaking a good partnership that's developing into like a destructive and almost all time destructive T20 opening partnership for India.

But if anyone wants to do it, I think it would be Shimon Gill and the fact that they see leadership potential in him for the shortest format of the game.

And I think his stint with Gujarat Titans also, you know, helps.

Like he's, he's done reasonably well with them.

So yeah, yeah, that's what I feel about ship and guild selection.

I'm not surprised or disappointed at all in that.

I think the selection didn't, I don't mind the selection.

As I said, I think it's a vice captaincy that surprised me a little bit.

I, I think Akshar Patel is doing a good job and he's also pretty young so I don't really see the need for change.

Like he's 28 or so, so he has a number of years ahead of him.

But, but yeah, it's interesting how somehow Indian cricket seems.

Or I. I guess that's true for most cricket.

You know, there's always Pujara and.

Sorry, not Pujara.

Pat Cummins, the odd bowler, captain, but otherwise every team likes to have their batter have a batter as the captain.

If at all, if anything at all.

I think Bumbra would have been a good pick for vice captain because, I mean, you know, four overs a game, that's like, seems like the perfect amount.

Gonna play a lot of T20s, though.

I think he's gonna get a lot of rest in T20s apart from, you know, the Asia cup or the World cup because of the Test schedule and IPL and all of that.

So, I mean, it's understandable.

I think Pujara honestly would be an outstanding Test captain.

But, yeah, it's just his workload which needs managing.

I do want to talk about the other big news of it though, like the exclusion of Shreya Sayer and Yashasui Jaiswal.

What are your thoughts on that?

I think I agree with Ajita Gurkhar statement that, you know, it's not their fault.

I mean, they're being Jaiswal or Shreya Sahil.

I mean, who are you going to replace them with though, you know, because Abhishek Sharma has done really well.

He's the number one T20 batter in the world.

You have Sanjay Sampson, you have Shubin Gill, who I think the other argument can be like, does Guild really make his way ahead of JSWell?

If you're being like, just going by numbers.

But obviously they see, again, we talked about it, leadership potential and Gil Fine.

So jswell doesn't really have, you know, someone that he could replace and not be kind of like universally like, okay, yeah, that seems like a good call.

I think it's just bad luck for jswell at the moment.

And the good thing is he's.

He's young and he'll probably get his chance, be it, you know, loss of form or injury.

I think he will get a chance eventually.

But I honestly, I just see that as bad luck.

Shreya Sire 2, to some extent, I think has bad luck.

And I was like thinking, okay, who could he replace?

And I'm looking at, okay, there's Tilak Verma.

Yeah, you're thinking.

Because I thought he.

He scored two back to back hundreds, right.

Last year or this year.

I don't know when that was in which series.

There seem to be so many of them anyway.

So I'm like, okay, they probably cannot take Dilagurma out, there's Rinku Singh, but I think Rinku Singh's role, they're trying to push as a late order finisher, so they probably don't want to upset that.

There's Shivam Dube now.

If, if anything at all, I think Shreyas could have made his way instead of Shivam Dubey.

But I think again, it's similar to J.

So I think it's bad luck.

I definitely think it's more reasonable that Shreya sir should have found his way inside more than jswell.

But again, overall, it's a stacked batting lineup and you can't really find too many strong faults.

Yeah, I would, I would agree with that.

I think the only one I could think of is Tilakwarma.

But yeah, he's done really well, so there's, there's no case of dropping him.

As you said, Rinku is the one that a lot of people have said should have been replaced by Shreyas, but Shreyas here doesn't play at 6 or 7.

That's not where he's been successful.

So there's no point of trying that.

I think between Hardik Dube on some tracks and then Rinku, that's a really good finishing lineup.

So.

And then of course there's Akshar.

So there's games where Akshar might play at eight, which is an extremely good batting lineup.

Like, I don't think at that point you need 9, 10, 11 to bat too much.

I hate to bring this up at all, but, you know, if it's Indian team selections, there's always some controversy around it and people will talk about favoritism, politics and all of that.

And there was this chatter that Shreya Sire is probably not as well liked by people up top.

Or maybe Gambir doesn't want Shreya's Eyre.

How much.

How seriously do you take any of this?

Or do you think it's just more just noise than actual substance?

I mean, I do think it's noise because I.

There's, you know, obviously there might be an, a slight aspect to it that, hey, Gambir prefers X Player or Shreya Sayer, for example.

But that is the job of a coach.

Like, the job of a coach is to have opinion.

Like, if he's supposed to be, I mean, obviously he's supposed to be unbiased and make reasonable decisions.

That is 100 true.

But he obviously needs to have an opinion to run a team.

And I, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I do think people always forget that Gambir is not running the whole country or the whole bcci.

Like there is Ajita Garkar who's clearly a strong voice.

Like imagine the likes of Rohit and Kohli being pushed into retirement after both, you know, in Australia talking about another series and playing on and all of that.

So they're strong characters and they clearly have enough power there between Ajita Garkar and Gambhir to push even legends out.

So to think that Gambhir is making or whoever you dislike Ajita Garker, if you dislike Ajita Garker is making all these ridiculous calls or has favoritism is a little bit overrated.

I do think it's a combined decision.

There's a bunch of selectors who weigh their opinion and then obviously the captain has his opinion as well.

So yeah, it's definitely a, a little bit overblown.

But at the same time maybe like, you know, it could be not that Gambir or don't like Shreyas here.

It could be just that they just don't see four being they think he's perfect for four and they just don't see four or five being a slot that is going to open anytime soon which is completely reasonable.

Yeah.

And who knows, maybe if Tilak Verma or Rinku Singh debate like they all struggle in T20s this year and there will be an SOS ahead of the World cup next year.

He may, he may be back sooner than you think.

The only other thought that I have about this squad, you know there was some, I read online that okay, there's not enough batting strength among the bowling unit.

We don't have boulders who can bat.

More importantly, you don't have boulders who can hit, you know, like give that late order impetus, score a few sixes here and there.

And that is why someone like Harshitrana got picked over Prasad Krishna.

I don't have any strong feelings about Harshad Rana's inclusion over President Krishna.

I thought Harshtrana is a pretty decent T20 bowler and I would give him more opportunities before saying that he's only picked for his ability to hit a few sixes here and there.

But that did lead me to think that it's time to invest in an all rounder similar to Hardik Pandya who's there.

But we need another pace bowling all rounder.

Ideally we already have Akshar as a spin bowling all rounder but someone like a Nitish Kumar Reddy, obviously not the first finished product and it'll probably be a while before he is, but I, I think it would be worth investing in him.

Obviously he's had a few memorable IPL knocks here and there.

Obviously he's, you know, he's shined a little bit in Test cricket, but I think he has that ability to fit in the T20 side if he is groomed for that kind of role.

So obviously I don't think it's going to happen for this upcoming World cup, but probably for the next one I think it's worth investing in him and just like developing his skills, maybe like extra attention paid to him.

What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I don't disagree at all.

I think the IPL and their impact sub rule is not helping in this case because you saw Shivam Duwe being used just at a.

As a batter.

I think if India really needs to create and develop these all rounders, let's give them a chance to bowl.

And like even Washington Sundar for that matter, bowled very little.

And similar was the case with Nitish Kumaradi.

Even though he was not used as an impact sub because he's a really good fielder.

He didn't bowl as much because you just have six bowling options using that impact sub.

So I, I think that is definitely playing against in India.

I don't know how that works long term, but having said that, I do agree Nadesh Kumar Reddy in the shorter formats has potential to become that batting all rounder.

I don't necessarily have a problem with.

I do think he's a pretty fine, you know, deputy all rounder to Hardik Pandya and Akshar Patel.

Both of them are very, very strong in both domains so they're pretty, pretty solid.

But, but yeah, it would be good to think long term and start thinking of Nitish Kumara D and he's already played a few T20s, so, so that's good.

And the other one that comes to mind is of course Rian Parag, another very solid batting all rounder.

He bowls a little more than Abhishek Sharma and Daphne bats really well in the middle order.

So that's another one that's, you know, a hard miss.

He didn't necessarily do too much wrong, but it's just a, it's, you know, it's a tight lineup to pick 15.

Yeah.

Brian Parag, potentially the next captain of Rajasthan Royals.

But that's again another conversation for another day.

Let's finish by talking about the upcoming Women's World cup in India, obviously along with the Asia cup squad selection for India.

India.

For the Indian men.

They announced the World cup squad for Indian women for the, the upcoming World cup here in, in India.

What are your thoughts on the upcoming tournament as well as the team selection for India?

Yeah, I mean, I, I obviously don't, can't call myself an expert on women's cricket, so I, I guess I'll leave the selection to it.

I, I will say that there's definitely a couple of injuries which have probably hampered.

Like, you know, Shanka Patel, for example, was doing really well for India and then has been injured on and off for, for quite a while.

So there's a few injuries that have hurt India's chances, but nonetheless a very good squad overall.

Some exciting batters and then the likes of.

I think I personally feel like somebody like Jemima Rodriguez has grown quite a lot when she came in, I mean, she's still very young, but when she came in there was a lot of talk about her potential, but now I think she's showing game after game, scoring consistently and she's always super good in the field as well.

So, yeah, I think the Indian team is at a good spot playing at home with the spin attack, the spinner spinning all rounders that they have, they should have a really good chance for sure.

Obviously the, when it comes to women's cricket, you just, Kevin can never rule out Australia and their might.

So it's, it's going to be a challenge for sure and we'll see how they do.

But I will, I will say that I'll be disappointed if at least they don't get to the finals because they, they should be able to beat England who've also had some injuries and they played against England and in England and did pretty well.

So I do think that that should be a challenge that they can do, do pretty good against.

Same with South Africa.

So hopefully they end up at least in as the top two, but we'll see how it goes.

You know, I have to say that, you know, I'll echo what you said, that I wouldn't consider myself like an avid follower of women's cricket because the fact that when I read the news and I was like, where's Shefali Verman?

She's like, not there.

And I was like, who's Pratika Rawal?

And then I saw her record and I was like, okay, makes sense as far as why she has picked.

But.

And I'm looking at it and I'm seeing, you know, there are a couple of names there, but they don't really have like A long list of performances to pull from at the international level.

But these are players who've performed well in the wpl.

And that, you know, that just like justifies all of the talk about how a WPL could benefit the Indian team in the long run.

And obviously it's taken a few years, but you're seeing it.

You're seeing players who are, who have gained attention through the WPL and building on what they've already done at the domestic level, they're breaking into the senior team and then doing well at the international level.

This is what we've been talking about, right?

Like, this is what the men's IPL did back when it started.

It took a few years.

I still remember and I mentioned this before the first few years of the ipl, all the big hitters were overseas.

You didn't really have too many power hitters who are Indian batters.

And now suddenly it's like, just like we talked about minutes ago, it's like, how do you fit all these players in?

We just have so much talent.

And the same thing is now happening with the Indian women.

And it's so nice to see.

It's so refreshing to see that someone like Shefaliwarma could be excluded.

And people are going like, yep, that makes sense.

You know, that's fair enough.

That's a fair call.

Not just in terms of like India's performances, but I hope it's also better organized.

But more than anything else, I just hope this tournament brings, and I just building on a success of promoting the women's game over the last few years.

And I think it really needs a stamp of success or a stamp of approval from the Indian public, you know, and it's always been refreshing to see whenever I watch like highlights of like women's cricket games happening in India.

There's, there's crowd is like, it's really getting there.

It's no more like empty stance or just like 20, 30 people there now it's like half full or close to being full.

So I'm really hoping the, the World cup builds on what the WP has, WPL has done, what the name recognition of international players has done, and really push it over the edge for me, especially like, you know, from the perspective of a dad to two young daughters.

You know, when I'm watching men's cricket, like I was watching, like The England and India Test series recently and my 5 year old is like, I want to watch the girls play, you know, like just to hear that it's a good thing, you know, because they're, she's naturally interested in cricket, but she also wants to see someone like her play.

And so we'll just like pick random highlights of some women's cricket, not just, not necessarily international, even something like this on willow, like you know, probably at the blast or something like that, just so that she can see girls like women play.

And I really hope that's what the World cup does as well.

Keep building on its successes over the last few years and really push it over the edge where we can talk about women's cricket at the same level as we're talking about men's cricket.

Obviously it'll, it'll come with time.

And I think something like that is much needed at the women's cricket level as well.

And personally, if it's not for India, I do hope South Africa win the World cup because honestly, Australia have won enough, they can take a break.

I think South Africa have a lot of talented players and I, I hope they can win the World Cup.

If India don't get there, that is.

But on that note, I think we'll wrap it up here.

Obviously so much going on in, in cricket, even though it seems like a lull for the Indian cricket fan because India hasn't played anything recently.

But of course with the Asia cup coming up soon, I'm sure we'll have more to talk about.

Pujara has retired, but he's obviously doing well in his kind of young broadcast career, so all's well with him.

So there's always like more to talk about, more to look forward to, cricket moves on and so the last wicket will be there to bring more stuff to you when it does happen.

But Mike, thank you so much for hopping on a quick call which ended up being longer than I expected.

But always fun to talk cricket with you.

Absolutely, my pleasure.