🌍 Welcome to The Passport Jane Podcast!

This is the incredible true story of Til, a Vietnamese refugee who escaped communist Vietnam with 35 other family members when she was just 11 years old.

At midnight, her father secretly loaded 36 people into the bottom of his fishing boat where they normally stored fish. After pretending to be a fisherman for 18 months to build relationships with guards, he made the ultimate decision - escape or live under communist rule forever.

What followed was 17 harrowing days at sea with storms so dangerous that her father told them they might need to tie themselves together to die as a family. But they survived, and Til's journey from that terrified 11-year-old to successful entrepreneur will completely change how you think about resilience and the American Dream.

In this episode you will discover:

- How her family planned their escape for 2 years without anyone knowing

- The moment they were pushed out of the Philippines with no fuel, oil, food or water

- Working peeling shrimp for Red Lobster contractors until her fingers bled just to pay rent

- Making her first $5,000 real estate commission that changed everything

- Building a business helping hundreds of families buy homes without credit checks

- Her transformation at 50 when she decided to stop living for others

Follow TIl:

📸 Her Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/til.lowery/

🌐 Her Website: https://tillowery.com/

Follow me

📸 Instagram: @passportjane

👤 Facebook: @jane.byrd.154819

for behind-the-scenes, updates, and guest highlights!

🎧 Listen This Episode on Your Favorite Platform

https://passport-jane-podcast.captivate.fm/listen

(Rate & review — it helps other women find these stories!)

Subscribe for weekly episodes that will inspire you to live courageously on your own international journey!

#immigrantstory #RealEstate #Vietnam #SuccessStory #Entrepreneur #Inspiration #AmericanDream

Welcome to the Passport Jane podcast. I get asked all the time,

how did I end up with the Passport Jane podcast? And it's easy. I started traveling,

looking at real estate, starting to explore other countries, meeting other real estate agents. But

what I found is I met amazing people. I met amazing, especially women who were on a journey,

women who had made the leap of faith to move overseas. And what I was so impressed with their

story, not only did they take the leap to move overseas, but when they got settled,

they did amazing things. They started businesses. They started second careers. They wrote books.

They became artists. They became photojournalists. They became war correspondents.

They started living their most amazing lives. And not only did they do that,

they did that in another country. I found their stories so interesting that I wanted to share

those. So it's a little bit of the journey that I want to share with you. The stories of amazing

women who have made the leap of faith and are living amazing, adventurous lives. Sometimes it's

their second act in life and they're doing it in another country till thank you so much for

joining me on the passport Jane podcast. Your story is so inspiring. And I have,

I knew you as an entrepreneur for the past nine years as a business acquaintance.

But recently I heard a tiny, tiny clip of your bio. And I was so interested to share your story

today. And I've known you as a business entrepreneur and as an acquaintance, but I

never heard your story. And recently you spoke at a global conference and you, but you barely

touched on your background. And then I went and looked up your bio and I was so inspired.

So thank you till for being here with us today. Thank you for having me. It's such an honor.

You know, when I was reading your, you know, your bio, I mean, I mean, it's pretty incredible.

You were a Vietnamese immigrant who were escaping a communist regime. Can you take me back to that

time in your childhood and, and just, you know, a little bit of that story of, of, you know,

how your family escaped. Well, I'm going to cry first. So my dad lived through a communist country

for probably two years and he figured like, we can't live here anymore. So as a businessman,

he converted the whole thing to pretending he's a fisherman. Oh, okay. So he had to build his

own boat and then took two years and pretend he's a fisherman and then get fish to give it to them,

to the guards. So create relationship. And then for his, he done that for 18 months.

And then even sometime when there's no fish, he would buy the fishes or the fishies to give it to

the guards just to make a tradition. And then one day he decided it's time. So he kind of snuck us,

all of us, three generations, my dad, my mom, and all the siblings, not 10 of us, 10 of us,

10 children. And then their children, I was about 11 and then maybe four cousins. So about 36

of us on the boat and tuck us in at midnight where the fish, he stored the fish. So we're

literally under. And then the next morning- Did you know you were going? Did they talk about it

ahead of time? No, no, nobody, not even my mom. Did she know that it was going to happen?

She know something's going on, but she did. We're supposed to do what we're told. We couldn't even

speak because our accents are different from the North and the South and the Central. So we couldn't

speak. But midnight, we was sliding into the boat. And the next morning, he literally drug all of us,

or at least the little ones, so that they don't cry. Really?

Yeah. So you would be quiet?

Be quiet. So he went fishing just like he normally would.

Were you scared when you woke up or when you realized that you were on the water?

I didn't know enough to be scared. So I was about 11. I was very naive.

Yeah. So you were 11 and you're in the bottom of the boat. And how much younger were your

other siblings, the little ones? My siblings, they're all older than me.

Oh, okay. You're the youngest. I'm the baby. Yes, I'm the youngest of 10.

And then a lot of nieces and nephews. Some was older than a lot of them.

Pretty much. So- Yeah. So went fishing and never came back.

Wow. And my dad was the first in the city,

that city, to escape from Vietnam and successfully escape.

Yes. So where was the route you were headed? What was the plan? I mean, looking back now,

because obviously as an 11-year-old, you didn't know the plan.

My dad was planning to go to the Philippines, prepare for four days of food and water.

Well, on the way there, and this is a long time ago. So there's no internet, there's no phone,

barely a compass. There's no GPS.

So went to the Philippines, didn't make it. There was a storm, landed in the Philippines.

They chased us out because we weren't welcome. You got lost at sea, right?

Yes, we got lost at sea. Was that after you went to the Philippines?

Yes. Okay.

And then they pushed us out. So we're left with no gas, nothing, no oil, no food, no water,

just left. So the storm took us wherever we were supposed to. So after 17 days with a lot of

storms and waters and a lot of uncertainties. But seeing my dad going through that at 11,

even I was young, I felt everything. It's so scary. The boat was rocking. And

I remember one night I was up and look at him crying. I mean, so he would say,

we're going to tie you up because you're going to die. So we died together.

So you said your dad tied you together so that you would all die together.

Yes.

And I can't even imagine as a parent, the heartache. I mean, how brave it was for him to do

that, to leave and to take the whole family and to prepare, but then the heartache of when it wasn't

going right. And we see that all the time, immigrants journeys we see on the news. And

I can't even imagine because I've never known anyone who went through that. You see people

crossing. And I think the desperation of a life of needing to find a new life and build a life for

family that people all the time have to make really difficult, hard decisions. And I just

feel so honored to share your story today, because I think it's important that people hear that,

that parents make and families make decisions sometimes that we can't understand if you've

never lived in that situation. And so you're here, so you survived. So tell me how your

whole family or how you survived that. So we landed in Hong Kong, stayed there for a year,

or 11 months, and then got sponsored by my uncle, who at that time lived in St. Petersburg.

Oh, Florida.

Yes. The first city.

So did Hong Kong welcome you there?

Yes.

Was it? Okay.

It was a refugee camp.

Okay.

They welcomed us there.

So tell me about a refugee camp.

Oh, it was heaven.

Was it?

It was heaven because we were so poor, living in the communist regime. Food wasn't readily

available. There's no money. Everything was monitored. So at the camp, it was paradise.

We get to eat whatever we want. They give us food every day and give us some work to make some

money so we can pay for food, extra food.

I read that you were peeling shrimp. Is that where you did that?

We did that in St. Petersburg.

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if it was at the refugee camp or when you went to St. Petersburg. So

whole family? Did everybody in your family go? Or how many people?

All of us. We were very fortunate. So almost all of us, well, all of us pretty much,

all of us. It was nice. It was 32 or 33 of us.

So when you got to St. Petersburg, what kind of culture shock was that? And were you all

living together? So tell us about that experience of immigrating to the U.S.

Well, it was a culture shock for betterment. Not like, oh my gosh, we don't speak English,

we don't know what to do. To us at that time, it was all a blessing going to work

in the U.S. At 14, I think 12 or 13 or 14, we take the red lobster. We were working for a

contractor that sell the shrimp to the red lobster. So the shrimp would cut the head and the tail

and then peel and devein. And that's what we did just to get cash to pay for rent.

Wow. Did your whole family do it? Was it a family or was it you?

Those who can work, work. Yeah. And even today, I would never order a dish that's shrimp.

Really? We ate so much shrimp.

Okay. I didn't know if it was because of you. Sometimes I grew up on a farm and I can tell you,

I don't really like farm. I don't really love eggs. I don't really love even beef.

And it's not that I don't, it's because I worked on the farm. And so I can see sometimes when you

are around something all the time, you don't want it. But then I didn't know if it was because of

the trauma, you've peeled so much shrimp, you did that, where you're like, you see it differently.

You don't even see it as- Yes.

Like you with the eggs and the beef, you see it all the time. Just the thought of seeing it all

the time. And then when you peel the shrimp, your fingers and your thumbs just bleed. They're

like literally bleeding. But then you work again next day. You think you can do the dishes at night,

but the next morning they call to come in to go to work. We're like start all over again.

You have to do that. Yeah. It's amazing the grit and the perseverance. And I look back over the

things in my childhood working on the farm, which was nothing like that. It still was, maybe it

wasn't glamorous and it was hard, but I am so grateful for it because it made me the person

I am today. And I see all of the amazing things you've done. And sometimes you think about if you

wouldn't have had that journey, would you have been as successful? Probably not.

Definitely not. At this stage, I would not go back and change anything because it shaped me

who I am today. Yeah. Those stories, I think of struggle and perseverance. But then that drive

to make it. There is something that gives you this drive to... I don't know, when I was young,

I wanted to prove my parents. I wanted to show my family that I could make it. I wanted to make

my parents proud. And then there was this point that it changed where I wanted to make my children

proud. And then now I want to leave the legacy for my grandchildren. But also now that I'm turned 50,

we talked about it, you don't even really care about it. I'm just so proud. I'm proud of me.

I want to make myself proud. And all those things, yes, I know my parents are proud of me. I know my

kids are proud. My grandkids will be proud. But really what's more important now is me.

I think it's you because for me also, I feel like I've grown. I mean, it's beautiful. It's great to

do things for others. And at least for me, to be known as a pleaser. So everybody comes first.

And at 50, I'm like, now what? How many more? Is it 50 more? What am I going to do?

And yeah, you learn to love yourself more and do things for yourself and be more,

be the truest and the most authentic version of yourself. And then guess what? It's not selfish.

No, it's not.

It's actually selfless because now we can do so much more for people with happiness instead of

suffering and lack.

And obligation.

And obligation. Now you do it because you're inspired to do it. And what a difference.

So you made the journey. You went to Florida.

How did you end up in... You went to Houston next. Is that right? On the journey?

Yes. Well, I went to...

Did you go to school? You went to university?

I did. I went to St. Petersburg High. And during the time we worked shrimping,

all of us saved $18,000. My dad said, we want food stamps also. So food stamps and getting cash,

not the most honorable thing, but we did what we needed to do. And that's why we're here,

not to burden the Americans. We're here to get freedom and to take care of ourselves. So we

saved $18,000. And so we moved to Houston and bought a convenience store.

And did you work in it as a family?

Yes, we worked as a family. And then at the store, it's pretty dangerous.

My parents had a convenience store when I was young.

I didn't know how we survived through that. But yeah, we made it through.

Yeah. I remember them teaching us what to do if you get robbed. And out of all of our family,

my dad was like, just give them the money. Don't do anything. Just get to the register,

reach the money, whatever they ask, just do. And my grandmother said, no, I'm not giving them a

dollar. She was like... And she started telling her... She was like, I will die before they take

a dollar. And we were like, looked at her and we thought, she will. They will run. They will

leave. They will not make it past my grandmother. I know, she was hilarious because she was like,

I'm sorry, I'm not giving them a dollar. So we loved it when my grandmother worked,

but we thought it was funny that she wasn't going to just hand it for any money.

Yeah. But yeah. So you've worked in this store.

So I worked there for the summer. I bought like meats,

translated from Vietnamese to English to my family and the seller.

How did you... Where did you learn to speak English?

When we were in St. Petersburg after... We didn't speak a word of English when we arrived in America.

So during school, we went to school not knowing anything, just do the daily thing, seven classes

and attended without knowing anything. So after school, we went to classes called ESL, English

as a second language, and then to nine o'clock and then go home and sleep and get up and do that

again for years, forever. And because we were younger, we learned a lot faster than our parents.

So I became a translator for my parents, just like those foreigners. And then when we bought

the convenience store, I was a translator, knowing very little English. I used everything I could

to translate. And then we bought the store for the summer, and then I got accepted to

Florida State University and full pay. I bet that was so exciting for your family.

It was exciting, but my dad didn't like that.

Really?

I'm the baby and the girl in the family. In the Asian culture, we're not supposed to leave the

house until we get married. So he didn't want me to go. He said, we will pay for you in Houston.

And I said, it's three times the tuition and you don't have the money to pay.

And I left. Anyway, he didn't talk to me for a year. My dad was my hero. He didn't talk to me

for a year.

You know, when I got divorced, my dad didn't talk to me. And if he did, he would only say,

go home. And I would say, dad, I'm never going to that home again. And it's funny in culture and

society and what people expect of you as a daughter. It's hard to go against that. And it

was heartbreaking for that year or a longer that my dad was very adamant that I go home.

But you know,

You can't blame him. He's very protective of us.

They love us.

My dad is probably my biggest champion. And after a couple of years, my dad was so,

he respected my work so much because he saw I made it on my own and I accomplished a lot.

And, but looking back, I can't even imagine

leaving to go to school and going against your dad's wishes.

And worse. I never graduated.

And he was like, oh my gosh, you know, he expected me to be an attorney or a doctor or

some kind of somebody. I didn't graduate.

Yeah. Well, you became somebody, which did you? So did you?

I got kicked out.

Because I couldn't, I didn't make my GPA. And then so I moved back to Houston. I moved to

Houston and went to U of H. It was a lot more lenient than today. So I heard. And then

went to school for another year and a half and couldn't graduate.

And I couldn't tell my parents that I

Do they know now? No. Did you ever graduate?

Did you graduate?

Never.

No. Okay.

Do you pretend like you don't have a BS?

Yeah.

And I did pretend for half a year to, they didn't ask. So I didn't tell.

Yeah.

I dropped out and went to work for the Gallup poll.

Oh, yeah.

At this time, my English wasn't even that great with a heavy accent if I can put the

words together, but I could read, you know, you just read and call and read.

And then I stumbled into an apartment job. Somebody hired me to work at the leasing office.

And then they gave me a place to stay.

Oh, okay.

But I couldn't move out because they wouldn't let me. My parents wouldn't let me. So

the boss thought I was smart. He said, if you go get your real estate license, I would pay for it.

And I'm like, sure. So I got my license in six weeks.

Wow.

It was a lot easier then.

Yeah.

And I did my first deal and made $5,000.

Oh, my gosh. Did you feel like it changed your life?

Oh, my gosh. It's like heaven on earth.

Yeah.

And so life was never the same.

I remember my first commission check in sales. I was single mom. I mean, it was a really bad

year before. I had lost my car. I had moved to Houston with no money. And I got my first

commission check that was $15,000.

When was this?

And it was in 2000.

Okay.

And I was like Scarlett O'Hara. And I said, I will never be poor again.

Because it changed my trajectory because I knew what I was capable of. And I think

I can only imagine of you getting that check and knowing what you were capable of.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Life was never the same.

So what did that spark in you? I guess the real estate,

did you realize the potential? And then what happened after that?

Well, what sparked with me was growing up, 10 kids. Mom couldn't realize, so illiterate.

Dad was pretty much an alcoholic until he found his purpose to take us here.

And there's no food or shelter, pretty much. We live in a little shack of a lot of us.

And so my dream was to have abundance of food and a place to live. And so

enough. When I got married, I got a house through the convenience store. My parents

bought a house for us. But when I got my five, literally that weekend, I bought so much food

and have a big party and they didn't know what happened. So I got my mom a wedding ring,

which she never had. So it was the 1800. That was a lot of money. And then my sister offered

to pay half, so that helped. And then I bought a couch and some chairs and tables for us.

And then from there, I...

It's funny the things you spend the money on when you first make the money.

What did you do with yours?

This sounds crazy because I did something similar. First, I went to Saks Fifth Avenue because at my

job, most of the people were single and they spent their money every weekend on clothes or whatever.

Well, I had three children. And one of the first things I bought was I bought... First,

I didn't buy the sheets. I bought sheets at TJ Maxx. I had been looking at TJ Maxx for three

years. I was walking around the aisles. I would never buy anything because I didn't have the

money to buy anything. But I would go as like a stress relief just to go look at pretty things.

And dream and wish.

So I bought sheets. I bought good sheets. I did go to Saks Fifth Avenue because the girls

at work would go for lunch. Back then, it was Ruggles. They would have Ruggles. And I couldn't

afford anything. I mean, I had never been in a Saks Fifth Avenue, but I had gone to eat lunch

with them. And I got that check and I thought, I'm going to go to Saks and buy myself something.

And I bought a Swarovski necklace and earrings and a bracelet,

which I think I've wore one time in my entire life because they're too dressy to wear with

anything. And it was $645. And I felt so guilty for spending that. But I also felt like I'm going

to do this to show myself that I can shop at Saks and that I can buy stuff that I would really love

someday. And it was kind of like more of an inspiration. And I can tell you, since that time,

I think I've only bought one thing there. I bought a formal dress because I love formal dresses and

I've ordered some stuff, but I really haven't done much shopping. It was just the whole idea

that I could. And I did buy a couch. We didn't have a TV. I remember thinking on my little list,

I had a little list of 10 things that I wanted. And one was, this is so silly, surround sound.

I wanted a TV. I wanted surround sound. I wanted to be able to eventually take my kids on a vacation

a year. That was on my list. And then I had wrote someday I want a swimming pool. And so that was

my first year that I wrote those things down of the things that I wanted. But-

You got them all?

I did. I did. And it was interesting that looking back, I mean, it took me longer. It took me like

10 years to get those things. But I remember when I got my first house and it had a pool.

And I was like, that was actually the last thing that I checked off because the vacation thing

came pretty quick. But when I checked that off the list, it was like, I got all this. I got that.

And then I was like, I need a better list. Those things were pretty, the bar was pretty low. But

yes. But yeah. I love though that you bought that for your mom. It shows your

knowing that your mom deserved that.

That was a dream too. 10 children, not knowing a whole lot. It's just-

Yeah. I know. My mom, my favorite thing to do is now spoil my mom or take her on trips

or buy her clothes or whatever it is.

You're very lucky to still have a mom.

I am very lucky. But it means so much because she sacrificed a lot for us as well.

So you started in real estate and I read online that you, it just took off because you really,

really dug in and-

Life was never the same after that.

So tell me about that.

And I'm still a friend of my boss.

Really?

Yes. He lives in New York now. I was a representative broker,

realtor for his apartment project and he bought it for 500,000 at the time. He sold it for eight

and a half million.

Wow. That is incredible.

And the night he sold it, he said, Till, let's go celebrate. I said, celebrate what? He go,

I just sold the apartment. And I said, I thought that's your retirement. He said,

the price I couldn't resist.

Oh my goodness. I love that. So you made it in real estate and then I read

that you started buying as well.

I started buying, but what really recently happened since 2016? Well, it started 2002,

but I did it for me and my family. But 2016, I incorporated my company to specialize in

owner finance, third-party owner finance. Because most of my family members are

owner, self-employed people. So it was a struggle to get loans to get home.

And immigrants as well. It is really hard to get the loans.

Yes. So I specialize in the third-party owner financing. And so to help buyers who cannot

qualify for home loan to get into any home they want. And the beauty of that, we don't check

credit or verify income. We make it really easy. We actually only have two requirements.

You have the down payment and you have a good attitude.

Really? Well, that's how I met you was because you had done several real estate deals with my agents,

helping people get into loans that didn't qualify for a traditional mortgage.

So I only knew you from that. And you have built an incredible company.

And can you give us any of the stats of how many people you've helped?

We have hundreds and hundreds of people since 2016. But if we go back to 2002, I would say

thousands. So I made it my mission for the rest of my life because I found it more of a passion

now instead of a job. So I want to go really right now within the state of Texas. And I want

to bring foreign buyers to Texas and to increase our economy and to help realtors to get commission

and to get them here. Yeah. So you work with real estate

professionals as well. You help them with their clients to educate them of the things that are

available outside of the traditional lending system. And then now you're an author. Tell me about your

book. I wrote a book that's called Secret to Wealth. And I think it was a group of us to write

it. And so it became an international bestseller. And I wrote, you know, there's so much struggles.

It's hard to share with the children because they wouldn't understand. So I started writing

a book for them. Really? A children's book? In 2018. Just to express myself and what I went

through for the children. And it was done. And my author wanted to publish it. I said,

no, this is for my children. And she said, you have to publish it. And so I still haven't

published it yet. Really? So that's... She's mad at me. She's not talking to me. She said,

I'm not talking to you until you publish it. The life you will change with this book.

But I was uncomfortable and I felt I wasn't ready because it's very raw.

I know. It's really hard to share your story. This podcast has...

I still cannot read it because I get tears. So I want to write another book from 2018 to

2025. That's volume two. And then I may publish both at the same time.

I want you to think about how many children need to hear that book and need to know your story.

I think you need that to be your motivating factor of that you're going to help so many people. And

the longer you wait, the less people are going to see it. So I know... I'm not going to connect

you with my writer. Oh my gosh. I know. We're going to get on you because I think that you've

more of a message to tell because you're going to inspire younger people. I know that we talked

about this podcast is for all ages because we want to inspire young people and we want to encourage

middle-aged. And then we also want people to see the next chapter. Wake up at 50.

Yeah. I want them to see what happens at 65 and all the inspiring things that people can do.

But just... I know you're going to have to go. We had a really tight schedule today and I'm

going to talk to you more. We're going to do a second episode because we have so much to talk

about. So much, yes. So you're about to go on a trip next week to Croatia and I'm headed that

direction as well. So tell me this next chapter right now, we talked about a little earlier in

your fifties. Tell me some of the things you're doing for yourself. Oh my gosh. When I turn 50,

I say, now what? Right? So the first 50 years, pretty much I feel like I did everything for

everybody, even with my own sacrifice. And then at 50, I'm like, okay, something's going to change

because the suffering was real. So then I had a really a big... I never had a birthday party ever

until I turned 50. Then I invited all my friends, literally all of them show up.

Wow. And I did get up and ask for their permission to say,

from here on, I would like your permission to give me the freedom to take care of me.

Literally, I got stand up ovation. So they stood up and clap and I felt like,

are you trying to tell me I'm stupid or what? It's about time. And so from there on, it was the

first year was a struggle and I felt selfish. The second year is a little face in, but by the third

year, I got it. And since then, I literally took care of me first. So I traveled pretty much the

world. Yeah. You told me you were gone nine months. Yeah. Pretty much the world to explore

me and explore the world, what it has to offer and to do some charity work that I love to give.

So that was the one way of giving and not having to do the daily task to give and to help.

So my trip to Croatia, it's going to be more fun and working hard for the younger generations,

working hard is good. Do it, do what you love. And there's a lot of potential in the future.

And for the middle age, continue pounding. You're smart.

I never give up. Yeah. And you can reinvent yourself as well in the next chapter.

Challenges are good. In fact, at this age, I look for challenges because without challenges,

you can't grow. You're too comfortable, then you won't grow. And if you don't grow, you die.

So for the middle age people, continue doing what you're doing. Just make sure you love it and be

yourself. And then so I've noticed a lot of women, they are now taking time to do creative

passions and to kind of go back to who they were as a core and not just as an obligation or service

or what we're expecting. And I love that. I love, and I can't wait to see your next chapter,

whether it be the book or your other book and even your travels. And I can't wait for you to

be back on the podcast so we can really dive in because there's a lot. You did a lot in real estate

and then in other industries as well, not just real estate. There's a whole chapters that we've

missed. Yeah. Looking back, I've done a lot. At the time, it didn't seem like it, but looking back,

it's a beautiful thing. And for the fifties, keep pounding away. It's never too late to start.

Fifty, sixty, I read somewhere, it says, whatever you're doing when you're 50 or older,

the next few years is going to determine the quality of your life the next 20 or 30 years.

So it's never too late to start. I started at 50. I know. Well, I am so enjoying this next chapter

and I think going in with confidence and the fact that you have all of these life lessons

and you can see things more objectively. I feel like I'm an observer now of when people do things,

I'm like, oh, that's why they're doing it or that's why there's a reaction or why this happened.

You see the cause and effect of your actions or other people's actions. And when you're young,

I felt like when I was younger, I was just in the middle of it. And now I just feel like I'm

looking at it from a different perspective of, does that matter? Is that important?

Like, how is that going to make my life better? Does that help anyone? And it's so freeing to be

able to step back. Yes, it's freeing. It is. It's a weight lifted off of you. It's liberating.

Yeah, liberating. I love that. I think I'm going to have some new words, liberation and freedom.

Yeah. And just to be yourself is the best thing ever. Yeah, I know. There was a lot of

expectations. There was a lot of expectations on you, culturally, as a mom. Yes. And even as an

entrepreneur, there's a lot of expectations. A lot. As a female entrepreneur and Asian,

but it made me very strong. I would not change a thing. It made me who I am today. And I'm

grateful for that. Well, thank you so much for being here. And I enjoyed our conversation.

Thank you.