Summary

James Oliverio, founder of IdeaBox, shares his journey from working on Wall Street to starting his own company in the cybersecurity industry. He discusses the importance of separating the roles of CIO and security officer, and the need to quantify cyber risk. Oliverio explains how his company, IdeaBox, focuses on data protection and offers services such as data risk assessments and crisis communications. He also highlights the unique features of Actifile, a product that is integrated into IdeaBox's offering. Oliverio emphasizes the importance of customer service and delivering a unique experience to clients.

Takeaways

Separating the roles of CIO and security officer is crucial for effective cybersecurity.

Quantifying cyber risk is essential for businesses to understand and address their vulnerabilities.

IdeaBox focuses on data protection and offers services such as data risk assessments and crisis communications.

Actifile, a product integrated into IdeaBox's offering, provides unique features for data protection.

Delivering exceptional customer service and a unique experience is key to success in the cybersecurity industry.

Sound Bites

"How do you approach cyber? Quantify it. You quantify everything else in the business."

"We can protect [data] preemptively with no end user involvement.”

Links

James’ IdeaBox: https://www.ideabox.com/

Please leave us a review: https://www.podchaser.com/AdventuresOnTheCanDo

The book Think Like a Startup Founder (early access): https://www.manning.com/books/think-like-a-startup-founder

Jothy’s site for speaking, podcasting, and ruminating: https://jothyrosenberg.com

Jothy’s non-profit foundation The Who Says I Can’t Foundation: https://whosaysicant.org

Jothy’s TEDx talk on why people with a disability over-achieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNtOawXAx5A

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

02:53 The Importance of Separating Roles in Cybersecurity

06:54 Quantifying Cyber Risk

13:05 Focus on Data Protection

25:01 Delivering Exceptional Customer Service

35:12 Future Plans and Opportunities

Hi James. I am good. And how are you?

How are ya?

Pretty good.

Okay, hey, first thing, tell us where you originally are from and where you live now.

You know, actually, not too far where, you know, literally half a mile where I was born, actually it was fortunate enough to live in the same community and in town, Westchester County up here in Eastchester, Bronx, full area. my entire life, you know, my kids also actually went to my elementary school and high school. So it's generational. So it's kind of, kind of interesting. we've stayed here.

Did any of those teachers, were they around long enough that they remember you and they tell your kids about what you did?

Actually, yes. I was a school board member for about 11 years at my district where I went to elementary, middle school and high school. And my kindergarten teacher was still there. And when my daughter was going matriculating through the school, my wife thought it was a little weird because she got selected by my former teacher. So she had it switched. She thought it was kind of strange that...

she would have the same kindergarten teacher so that she actually changed it. But yeah, a few of them were still around at the time. Yeah.

Wow, that's not that common. I haven't talked to anybody that lives in the same community where they were born and grew up. That's pretty interesting. So tell us a little bit about what your company is that you founded and what market it's operating in.

Yeah.

Yeah. Idea Box was, a shell company and the name Idea Box itself was something I purchased, 20 something years ago. And I used it through my journey, entrepreneurship where I, my former business was the managed services practice, which started with that entity Idea Box and then it got renamed. But today the company is primary goal is to align itself on the security side. So my, my, you know, my former company and my background is really about uptime.

And when I think about my career, both on Wall Street and the private sector, keeping computer systems operationally so people can function was my knitting, right? And I got really intrigued a bunch of years ago saying, you know, I'm really good at keeping this stuff up, but why is, you know, I wanted to go out and seek, why are these firms and companies being breached? Why is this happening on an exponential rate?

You have all this great technology and process. And I wanted to focus on the security only lane. And I went on a journey of an a quest. How do we make it a safer world in an environment for companies to conduct business away from malicious employees? And that's our focus today, which is creating that, that ability to show companies that you can approach cyber in a way, which we believe is quantifying it in a concept we develop. I have a program I spent at Harvard.

on risk manager called ROM, return on mitigation, which is explaining cyber in a way that owners understand the quantification piece of it.

So you had this journey from you were on Wall Street for a long time. And then you went to a big bank, UBS. And then when it was sort of a bunch of you decided to depart, that was when one of your colleagues

really encourage you to start that managed service provider.

Yeah, you know, it wasn't managed services back then. It means I had a really good career working for a company, a great firm called Donaldson, Lufkin and Genret was DLJ. And it was purchased by Credit Swiss. And during that time was really learning a lot of the bankers left splinted off and bunch went to UBS. And I decided to go over with them and start, you know, start up the process and the IT at that, that bank. And my winning formula didn't translate well.

over at UBS was very structured, different environment where I think DLJ was more entrepreneurship where they empowered you. They gave you a direction and said, listen, go figure it out. Right. you know, they, it was a different environment. So one of my former bosses said, listen, you know, it didn't work out at UBS. Just don't go to another bank. I know you're interviewing another investment bank, go start something. You could figure it out. And there I am going.

fundamentally the separation of duties. You can't be the CIO and the security officer. They can't be one. And two, is everybody's approaching it just by throwing stuff up on the wall that really quantifying, rubricing out what's my real risk, right? You've got data, you've got egress, you've got all sorts of things, right? Third party risk. And that's where...

My, you know, by doing that, I attracted my current partners at ActiFile where we actually have the ability to look at a client different from client A versus B, which is really what type of data do they create or ingest and quantify that data down to the bit level. So for example, today we can set, show a client almost in real time basis. Here's the data that meets matches PII, PCI, both regulatory.

and non -regulatory could be company with patents. Here's this data and they all go, where are you finding this? It's literal across your network, but Mary Sue over here seems to have the greatest risk. And they look at the list of files that we reduce. They go, my God, they're walking around with all this data and we can protect it preemptively with no end user involvement. So it's been, it's been pretty exciting journey at this point. So I think we are starting to change the conversation.

Cause I've been on this quest to change the conversation at the C suite, which is how do you approach cyber? Quantify it. You know, you quantify everything else in the business, right? You have your KPIs for everything, but no one's really thought about that. I never really think about the data that I create, use, or ingest where that data might be. And I can preventively protect it from malicious employees and threat actors. So that's what we can do today, which is a pretty exciting journey now.

So a lot of good startups come from somebody who works in an industry for a while and starts to spot the problem, an unsolved need, and then they make the jump. And it's kind of what you did, right? And so, well, yeah, I mean, you were...

Yes, kind of.

You saw that stuff wasn't being done in a way you realized that it needed to be. And so with a little bit of a push from a friend, you go off and you start this. And so how much of a sense did you have as you were creating this latest entity that what you're doing,

what you were doing was really unique. I mean, you said, well, no one seems to be doing this, but I mean, how sure are you of that? And are you really unique in the marketplace?

I think what we're doing is unique, but when I think about my career and encouragement, I think about my wife and her encouragement, we're married 35 years, like go out and do it, go for it, right? Having that partner that says go do it, right? At all costs. I mean, it was tough. Those early days, like you sit in there, I mean, literally I remember those days when I came off of Wall Street, I'm in my office and I literally had a card table, right?

We're out there and strategizing about how we're going to build this, this, this managed service, that was a managed service practice, but an IT business with no customers, right? But then put the word out and like, yeah, we need help. We need help. And then you evolve. Right. And I look at what I did then as opposed to what I do today. And what I really focused today on is I'm just like this evangelist, right? Trying to distill a very complex challenge of how do you approach cyber? And it's, it's.

And when I say my current partners, my current partners are out of Israel, called Actifile. And then when they reached out to me and said, we love what we're seeing on LinkedIn and your story about, because I read a lot of documents on risk quantification and I like to preach the terms of ROM, return on mitigation. And every time I see a job posting, for example, of an organization hiring a chief security officer reporting into the CIO,

I'll drop them a note going, you may want to rethink that, need separation of duties. And here's why you shouldn't really do that. Right. And fundamentally, when I learned, you know, Sony target Equifax, they had all the best technology and process. They were organized incorrectly because the same people responsible for uptime, which I'm a big, you know, my background, you can't be fixing a printer and dealing with a problem and focusing on security. You need the separation of it. Right. So when I think about.

You know, the question of, you know, you know, do we have to be unique? I'm, I don't really get crazy about that. How I can simply communicate at the C -suite, this whole concept around ROM. And now you can really quantify, which is really exciting. I'm seeing the pull through both in the channel, our channel partners with managed services companies, educating them how you carry the conversation from tech to a business conversation.

is exciting, right? And I'm going to continue on this journey till I change it where when I say change it, think about cybersecurity underwriting insurance as an example. I've approached them several months ago with this concept. They all leaned forward and went, crap, Ali, they go Ali, this is called continuous underwriting. So what you're saying to me is that we've got paper on all these different companies for cyber protection.

And you can, we could put your agents out there and show every client different risk profile by the amount of data they ingest and use. I go, yes, you get it. So for example, that client's going to come back and look at a list of file and go, my goodness, that looks like my personal tax return. Correct. We're going to find that data, right? We're going to go into accounting firms and they're going to say, we're secure, but they're not because those tax attorneys are running around.

with laptops, with people's tax returns in an unsecured format. We find that, right? So it shifts, we're changing that conversation. And when I say purpose, right? When I think about my purpose, creating a safer world, my partners and Actifile myself, I think we're living up to that. Because when you start deploying this kind of technology and philosophy, you preemptively protect data at rest.

it use an emotion and it's a paradigm shift. I mean, yes, it's in the category of data loss prevention, but we have flipped all the administrative headache of those types of solutions and we're excited about that.

So when you first started, was it just you, or did you have some co -founders that you were sitting around this card table talking to?

I had myself, then I attracted an engineer or two that used to work with me at DLJ, to join the mission, right? And client by client, then we grew. Then I got, you know, the ability to acquire some small companies with leverage buyout on their balance sheet. And I grew this 50 person company over 11 year period and exited it, right? So yeah, there were a few people that I gave,

share as an equity into it. But

Only a banker would, as a small company, would try to do a leverage buyout.

Well, I was, they're small, they're micro deals, right? People have these businesses and can't figure out how do I get to the next level? They're stuck in the whirlwind of working in it as opposed to on it. And I did probably six or seven of those transactions over that time period. So I had a mindset, because I was coached well, both by my former DLJ friends.

Cause I've lived around that environment for quite some time thinking about on and in the business. And you've got to think about your activities that you're working in it, fine tuning it and on it. And the audit was finding those, those jewels, right? Some of my acquisitions led me to some of my larger clients, like the makers of the Snuggie, the company called All -Star Marketing at the time, that stupid blanket, but they were a huge products company, all wine enthusiasts, wine spectator.

Acasabella Holdings, these are brands that I didn't cold call on. I acquired the companies that were their providers on the backend and they became our customers. So I think every business has to have that in their mix.

So now the current company, which you are again calling IdeaBox, right? I got confused by the naming a little bit there. OK, so you're partially a products company. And I kind of want to understand exactly where the Israeli group fits in. But you're partially a products company.

Yes.

Sure.

but also services. I mean, you're spending a lot of time with these folks, understanding their exact situation and then trying to figure out what they need and educating them. I assume there's a services component there, an education service.

Yeah.

It's huge service. I mean, IdeaBox when I started it, it was focusing more on the CISO, the Fractional Chief Security Officer Services, which we deliver as a service. It led us on the journey and attracted ActiFile as a product, a SaaS product that's bolted into our offering. So we do data risk assessments and manage companies.

and their data risk, along with handling their crisis communications, incident response, where their fractional CISO, if you think about it, we're boutique. I pivoted about 18 months ago because I saw the pull through that I work for Actifile on the back end in the channel of evangelizing it in the marketplace, how to approach cyber with doing data risk assessments.

in using the tool and invoking that as one of the key products in our solution. So some would say, is it really a solution cell? Not really, it's a service offering and coupled into it, it's more the security elements of it. So think of us as fractional cissos.

And then does the active file, is that right?

ActiFile was one of the key products for us, yes.

So is that a product that you use while you're performing the service, or is it actually something you're selling to the customer and it's going to sit on premise and be used by them?

It's built into our offering. It's, it's one of the key things that's built into our, or it's baked into our, I would call quote the quote somebody, Gary Pica. When you think about the chocolate cake, right? The concept of a bakery, they don't sell by ingredients. So when we're taking on the security lane for a client, we have in our portfolio, a 24 by seven security operations center offering. We have in that offering, we have cyber awareness training.

In that offering, we have, we build out a written information security plan. In that offering, we do assessments of where they currently are. In addition to that assessment is the data protection piece, right? How do we protect it? So we bake it. So we have customers have the full portfolio of it and others that just have just data protection only.

Are you operating sort of mid -market or are you also working with some really big organizations?

I'm mid, majority mid, but I've taken a couple of swings at some, because of my background and connections, some real major enterprise customers. Yeah. We have proof of, exactly. We do have some tests going on, yes. Because they've got data everywhere, they don't know where it's at, and this is finding it.

Mm -hmm.

You ought to go back to UBS and Credit Suisse and.

good.

So can you tell us about a memorable moment or highlight from your career that has stuck with you?

Yeah, I do have one story that I like to always, I always leverage on because it was, I refer to as like one of the moments you always remember. It's the fighting moment. It was back my days at DLJ and I was a young buck, a guy running, rolling around PCs that both handled investment bankers and the capital markets desk. So I managed infrastructure, right? Managed desktop back then. And it was as the bank was growing,

I was encouraged by Vince, you know, Vince DeGioia Mois, it's like, you know, Ollie, you know, the way you're going to fit in here, you got to get with the guys. You got to have breakfast. You got to have lunch with them. You got to play golf with them. You got to, because, you know, I hear you, cause I, cause I went to him with some frustration because they're high energy. If you think about a support function, you're in a non revenue position. And when I reflect back then, the advice that Vince gave me was profound.

because I was trying to find my fitting, these guys treat you like a second class citizen, the guys, the women, right? Like your support, you're not one of them, right? So he's telling me what the things I needed to do. So this one particular incident steps out really was profound, right? I'm getting screamed at by an investment banker from Chicago that systems aren't working, they can't get deals done, and I'm just taking a beating, right?

Wow.

And I was taught customer service is not a department's what you deliver. So instinctively hangs up the phone. I said, Anita, book me on the shuttle. I flew out to Chicago. In a matter of hour or two, walk in the door and that banker that was beat me up. Who are you? I was the guy you're screaming at out in Chicago from New York. He goes.

because I'm here to fix the problem, to make sure that you can get back and the deal can get done.

And by the time I left Chicago, fixed the problem and flew back, I got this phone call from Vince. Ollie, freaking, you finally figured it out. You made me, Vince, look like, like unbelievable. But these guys loved it. You're one of them now. It's like reverberated, like this guy.

came out here and fixed it on the same day and they embraced me. I became part of the, part of the team. And to this day, there's over 600 investment bankers that get together for an annual, you know, get together at the university club or the Bryant that Vince actually hosts. And we just shoot the breeze. Like everybody's off at different firms. We're friends. It's a really well, well,

600 people in a room just

There's a network over 600 that is my core group, but on any given event, there's 200 people there that show up. I mean, icons.

Are there talks? What is it? What kind of?

It's like what you're up to as a family. DLJ was such a unique culture. And I, you know, you can't teach that. Like it was customer and your colleague first mentality. And that moment, the defining moment, because I, I sacrificed, I did the extreme. Like it was, I wasn't this department where when you think about corporations, right? Where you've got the.

you know, central department of IT and this department and they've taken attitude. you know, they're, you know, they're just needy people. I, I treated them as if, Hey, they got to get their job done. I'm in the service business. Right. And.

that they're in the service. Bankers put ideas on paper for people to make financial decisions about. Joe Roby at the top would ream investment bankers not getting back to their clients on the same day. It's all about the touch points. It never left me. And I think that was part of my success in my private practice is delivering something that they're not going to get from somewhere else. Look, everybody's got businesses out there, right? What set yourself?

different from the others, it's how you do, how you, how your delivery is. I live by the mantra, customer service is not a department. It's what you deliver. When you deliver that experience, deliver them the why they buy the why, right? They it's, and I, that passion and what I'm doing today pulls through when I am able to show the breakthrough. Because when I think about cyber and I think about the C suite,

Mm -hmm.

They always ask this question in the boardroom. What are we spending all this money for? Why are we doing this? I'm getting to the why we're doing it. I've got some dashboards and some examples, four, five, $600 million of data risk. Records that are in organizations with data birth records, healthcare records. And I've got CEOs come to meetings going, wait a minute, they lean forward and go, what are you showing me? Because they see numbers, right? They attract it.

So cracking that code and cracking that code and keeping the conversation that it's not about a firewall, not about building higher methods and difficult methods for data to be extra traded in and out. It's beyond the tech. It's getting to a language, getting into their heads that this is the way of doing business. We can make it a safer environment, both employees and for companies. And it's exciting.

Yeah. I'm in the cybersecurity space too.

Yeah.

So.

I'm guessing because you're big or all of your revenues are coming from being a services business that you haven't needed to take investment money. Is that true?

starting to think about what that might look like. But also, well, the conversations are evolving where the parent company is, you know, the act of all company, there might be something there where we can lever each other. And I might, you know, we've had discussions, but, you know, OPM, other people's money, I've done that once in my career. You've got to write, find the right, the mix and write the right people.

because you need to expand.

not, I'm not there yet. I'm still on the mission of education and getting more pull through on, on our offerings of, of CISO offerings. So I'm still, you know, I think months away from that, but again, I, I've thought about it. I really thought about if I, if somebody just had a fight, I thought about the money that I've dropped on my table, what would I do with it? Sources and use. It's all about the marketing and education on this.

I call the concept of ROM return on mitigation. And that will pull through different things for different people. Some will need sock services. Some will need written information security program things. Some will definitely, I think they'll all require, you know, the tool to be in there monitoring data. And when I say data, it's the unstructured data that bites all of these organizations. It is the PowerPoint, the word, the Excel. It's the data that people mind.

that are doing calculations, that that's the data that when the threat actors get their hooks into it, it's the treasure trove, right? They've hit the jackpot, so to speak. And it's that data that they go, where is that data? It's on your desktop, it's in this folder, it's that folder, it's literally everywhere. And you know,

It's happening. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing the excitement that we're generating because we're having lots of conversations both in the channel with providers as well as direct to consumer. I've got a B2C play, both insurance, breach attorneys, educating them, accounting firms, right? Certain industry where I think fits really, really well with this type of technology.

Are you structured as a C Corp so you could take investment easily in that structure?

I am not an, I'm an LLC.

You're an LLC. So if you wanted to sell them equity, you change the structure.

I would. I could. Sure.

Yeah. So, you know, it's, I find it to be a truism that everyone who's founded a company running a startup has a lot of grit. And I'll bet you've got a grit story. Where'd your grit come from?

you know, I think it's gotta be my, for my dad, right? He was a cabinet maker.

He was a small, you know, family guy, right? My father was a cabinet maker. He was a craftsman and he taught me the trade. And I say, grit. Yeah. You know, I was supposed to inherit the business kitchens, bathrooms, and making kitchen countertops and stuff. Those nature, right? So I had a pivot. I was a, I was an athlete, do high school state champion for my high school state champion, basketball.

Really?

What sport? Basketball.

I was pretty decent, a decent player. I got drafted to a regional college, St. Vincent, I decided not to go, but I went to St. John's during the time of Billy Goodwin, Chris Mullen, those days. So I got the, you know, I was, I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I was a basketball player. I

Are you tall?

Good.

I was in a red shirt, but I just would play pickup games with those guys. But to get back on point here, so I'm learning the trade and adversity hit. And I didn't know at the time, but I can go back at the story, which is the compounds of learning the trade. My skin was peeling. I was allergic to it. And.

Long story short, you really can't wear gloves in this because like you're really you're working on furniture. You're working. You're a craftsperson, right? Building countertops. I had to make a decision. I had to go to college. I can't take the business. I can't do this. You know, I was supposed to take the trade. I was learning it. And. It was the glue. The glue that, you know, my father was a big.

Was it one of the finishes that was the problem? the glue.

laminate and from mica before corian and granite came to the stage. This is over, I couldn't have been more than 16 years old. You know, we're talking quite a while ago. So I ended up getting to St. John's University, finding this integrator called Land Systems. Land Systems was one of two integrators back in the early 80s.

signal balloons went up in the screen. Land system, land service. I worked for land systems and they said, go to the DLJ account and you're an engineer. You go down and move desktops, set up desktops, install software, set up Novell servers, et cetera. And I'm down Wall Street walking around and going, this doesn't look like, you know, back then it was PLJ. I didn't hear the D. I'm saying to myself, man, this doesn't look like a radio station.

This is a true story. Doesn't look like a radio station. I'm walking around going, what does an investment bank do? And I spent about a year down there as this bank went from 30 investment bankers and growing, they plucked me out and I ended up working there full time. And as an engineer grew into a director, then the CIO of the investment bank. So, you know, it's...

the adversity of having to change direction, not knowing if education was in the cards, I kind of had to wing it, right? That was one piece, but that led the way where when I was in my private practice and you're on for a personal guarantee because you need to roll crack units in for your data center and build out this infrastructure for your cooling and plant, man, that's just like...

stress. It's like, you know, where am I going to find the financing? And you got to put yourself personally guaranteed on notes and you know, pray to God. And again, I say to my wife, go for it. We had like three cabinets of users and I filled it up with 80 cabinets, right? I was, I got lucky with great people around me. So it's, you just got to keep, you got to keep at it. And I think I've been really fortunate with good people, good partners.

to this day, that's what keeps me going. You know, those, those relationships.

Mm -hmm. Sounds like your wife is a tremendous supporter of even you taking risks.

Tremendous, tremendous.

Tremendous, tremendous. Yeah. I don't think most, it's like go get another, just go for it. Just, you know, a lot of faith and spiritually, just go for it. You know, it'll work out, right? And if you work at hard enough, believe, you know, God has a path for each of us, right? And you're gonna figure it out, you know? And it's a look, it's no different. Like I try to tell people,

Like my kids are all, you know, working for different people and, you know, am I creating something potentially here that they can actually get involved with? I've thought about it, but I've let them spread their own wings and they're getting their own experiences now. But yeah, in the back of my mind, you know, yeah, it's not like I'm just so set. I've got to do it myself. I've told my current partners, Hey, look, wherever this journey may take us collectively.

And when I say, I talk about my current journey with Actifile, we're doing some really creative stuff. And I go, nothing's off the table. Don't think that, you know, I've got this, let's see where it takes us, right? Because collectively together, we were spreading the word and how you quantify risk. Actifile is a big piece of it. And we're, we have hundreds of thousands of seats that are going in production with millions of seats line of sight.

I mean, this is, this is exciting. This is one of my millions. We have millions of seats of a pipeline opportunity. Yes. We have some, we have, we have, we have some deals where two, 300 ,000 seats at a clip. I mean, these are big organizations. I won't name the organization. Yeah. It's, it's, it's just like, think about it. Antivirus, right? This Asian is that light that it needs to be on every device. We think it should be part of the operating system. Right.

Millions of seats. Wow.

That's really impressive.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

And we think it will be. We think it has the likes to do that.

So if you were acquired, what kind of a company would acquire you?

I think eventually Actifile might get rolled up into like a Cisco or one of the larger organizations. I know at the board level, I really haven't thought about what that looks like, but I know the next couple of years, it's about the market and the expansion of the market. The current president of GoToMarket Strategists is really focused on that channel play and we're getting really good pull through.

And is that what you'd like the final outcome to be to get acquired?

James Olvierio (37:01.678)

I don't know. I think it's a few years away. I think, you know, could they go public? I don't know. I think when I think of the competitor products like a Veronis, Proofpoint, some other in the data loss prevention space, where I know we leapfrog them, you know, public is, I think, is a distraction. PE could be an accelerant. So I know that we've got private equity behind the Actifile parent company today and it's...

I mean, I know it's a few years away.

They're hitting all the numbers, right? We're collectively doing it. for me, you know, I've, I've got a couple of industry. I want to, a couple of industries I want to own, especially breach attorneys and, insurance underwriting. And the reason why I say industry active falls, not going to B2B, they're going to the channel. That's left up to me. I have full unencumbered go, go run as fast as I can with their support. Because as you know,

Mid -market is one thing, but when you start dealing with some enterprises, it could take a year for a pull -through. Right?

And are they still based in Israel?

with good, we have good roots here in the U S now too. We've got, we've got boots on the street now and it's, it's expand, it's expanding. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, I've enjoyed every Israeli firm I've worked with. I've really enjoyed. They're hard charging. They can be tough, but they're always ultimately really good to work with.

You know, this team of scientists, you know, with the background of data encryption and the way they've approached this, you know, it's not a surprise, right? When you think about like, Cisco had a corner on video conferencing and a bunch of people left Cisco and created Zoom, right? This is kind of similar to that. Some of the team members have said, look, we just think we can build a better mousetrap and they have.

requires no administrative overhead. It's all cloud and SaaS based. So they just have, when it comes to security, it's been a bedrock of really good scientists, technology.

Yeah, well, some of the best cybersecurity work is all, you know, yeah.

Checkpoint, so many people give me a checkpoint on the team, yeah.

Well, this has been great. I've learned a lot. I think our listeners are going to feel like they've learned a lot as well from you. So your nickname is Ollie.

I hope so.

Yeah, Olivero is my last name and my former boss who's a close friend calls me Ollie. Ollie, you figured it out.

Okay.

Okay, well.

All right, so I didn't get that memo at the very beginning, but I'm going to say thank you, Ollie. This has been great. And this will be an episode that I think people will really enjoy.

Terrific. I appreciate the invite and doing this. Thank you.