Welcome back to the Late Boomers Podcast! We’re Cathy Worthington and Merry Elkins , and we’re thrilled you’re joining us for another episode dedicated to helping you reinvent your health and well-being at any age.

In Episode 294, we dive into a topic affecting every single one of us: environmental toxins and what “clean living” really means. With so many buzzwords organic, natural, chemical-free it can be overwhelming to distinguish helpful tips from clever marketing. That’s why we invited Amy Hartshorn, founder of Green Living Now and veteran advocate for non-toxic living, to demystify how to make healthier choices that fit our real lives.

For over 34 years, Amy Hartshorn has been at the forefront of teaching practical, approachable ways to reduce toxins in our homes, food, and daily routines. As co-owner of a certified organic farm in Vermont, she brings a hands-on perspective on what really matters in food, soil, and consumer safety.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How marketing labels like “natural” and “wild-caught” can be misleading
• Ways to prioritize your food budget for the biggest health impact
• The truth about greenwashing and how to read between the lines on packaging
• Easy first steps to reduce toxins in your home without spending a fortune
• The importance of soil health, indoor air quality, and what families should know about furniture, fragrances, and plastics
• The healing power of nature and community, as seen in Amy’s transformative retreats

Key Takeaways

• Perfection isn’t the goal: Small, steady improvements like swapping out a scented laundry detergent for fragrance-free can make a real difference (09:00, 41:08).
• Not all labels are created equal: “Natural” is a meaningless term, and “wild-caught” is only trustworthy if certified by credible organizations like the MSC (10:07, 44:51).
• Start with high-impact swaps: If organic isn’t in the budget for everything, focus on the “Dirty Dozen” produce and prioritize organic meat and dairy for the biggest benefit (15:14).
• Fragrances are hidden toxins: Remove air fresheners, plugins, and heavily scented products from your home for an easy, impactful win (28:01, 41:08).
• Read ingredient lists, not just claims: The real story about what you’re buying is on the back of the label (25:39).
• Our choices matter: Every dollar spent sends a message about what we value, and we wield more power as consumers than we sometimes realize (24:10).
• Community and nature heal: Amy Hartshorn shares moving stories of how farm retreats and horse therapy have changed lives, showing that holistic change goes beyond our shopping carts (32:07).

If today’s conversation made you think twice about air freshener, food labels, or what’s lurking in your cleaning supply closet, share this episode with a friend or family member who’d benefit from a more informed approach to healthier living.

We’d love for you to subscribe to The Late Boomers Podcast wherever you listen don’t miss future conversations with experts who help you live your best next chapter.

Check out more resources from Amy Hartshorn on greenlivingnow.com, and find her podcast, Green Living Now, for deeper dives and practical guidance.

Leave us a review, connect on YouTube, and remember every step towards cleaner living counts, no matter when you start.

It’s never too late to rethink what’s possible!

— Cathy & Merry

Mentioned in this episode:

Late Boomers is part of the eWomenPodcastNetwork.

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Welcome to the Late Boomers Podcast, where we bring you inspiring stories of people creating new chapters in life with style, purpose, and impact. I'm Cathy Worthington.

And I'm Merry Elkins. And whether you're reinventing yourself, improving your health, or simply looking for ways to make your life better, We're glad you're joining us today.

Today's topic is something that affects every single one of us, whether we realize it or not— environmental toxins. We hear terms like clean living, organic, natural, and chemical-free all the time, but it can be difficult to know what's truly healthier and what's simply clever marketing.

Yeah, and it's amazing how much has changed over the years. When we were growing up, people weren't talking about pesticides or endocrine disorders and disruptors, microplastics, PFAS, or hidden chemicals in everyday household products. But today we're surrounded by information, and sometimes a little too much information can be a bit overwhelming.

Exactly. You almost need a chemistry degree just to buy shampoo or laundry detergent. Then there are food labels with ingredients we can't pronounce and products claiming to be all natural that really aren't.

Yeah, and let's face it, most of us aren't trying to be perfect most of the time. We simply want to make better choices without feeling guilty or spending a fortune.

Our guest today has been helping people do that exact— that exactly that, rather, for over 3 decades. Long before green living became popular, she was educating people about reducing toxins in their homes and their food and their daily lives.

Amy Hartshorn is the founder of Green Living Now and has spent more than 34 years teaching practical, realistic ways to create healthier homes and healthier lives. She also co-owns a certified, certified organic farm in Vermont, giving her firsthand knowledge about how our food is grown and why it matters.

Amy, welcome to Late Boomers.

Thank you so much.

Well, you've been teaching nontoxic living for more than 3 decades, long before it became mainstream. So back then, did people think you were a little ahead of your time? And what's changed the most in public awareness since you began?

Yes, yes, yes, they definitely did. So when I— my big aha moment came from when I was pregnant in 1992 and I came upon this little book called The Nontoxic Baby. And in it, I learned that there were toxic chemicals in everyday household products, including baby shampoos and creams and diapers and all the things that we assumed were safe. And I was both shocked and horrified. Shocked that these ingredients were allowed. Also that nobody was talking about it back then. And probably worse, nobody was really protecting us. And I don't think that that landscape has changed a whole lot.

Yeah.

I think in some ways it's actually gotten more confusing. there's a good thing and a bad thing. So the good thing is that there are a lot more choices, but it's harder to tell which ones are really better and why. So I would say that's the biggest change. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, and to answer your other question, sorry, how did people view me? So I first started writing letters to the editor of a local newspaper in the town that I lived in before I was in Vermont. And I had a very interesting conversation going with people that were waking up and becoming more conscious about this, but also sort of the better living through chemicals crowd that thought I was crazy.

Oh, well, that's—

you ruffled a lot of feathers.

I did. That's a good thing, isn't it? Yeah, it felt like a good thing. You know, yeah, well, many of us, whether older or younger, have experienced health challenges that have made us rethink our lifestyles. You managed a serious medical condition holistically for several years before you decided to have surgery. What did that journey teach you about balancing conventional medicine with natural approaches?

Well, so I was a bit of a purist in my early days, and I felt like I tried to avoid Western medicine at all costs. And I was terrified, honestly, because of some earlier experiences that I had as a little girl. What it felt like to be in that system. And my mom was also really into nutrition and keeping us healthy. So I got that message from her as well. But what I learned from that experience was that even though my preference is holistic and eating really clean food and living a non-toxic lifestyle as best I can, given that we live in a fairly toxic world, I realized that after 5 years of trying to manage this fibroid holistically, it wasn't going away. And I was just losing too much blood and it was becoming a real problem. And so I had this amazing experience.

I had also, at the end of this 5-year period, I had discovered that I had an ovarian cyst that I didn't know about until it burst. And I was delivering flowers that day to a wedding and I was in excruciating pain, which I did not let them know. And then I immediately went to the ER afterwards. And Strangely, they could not confirm that I had an ovarian cyst, much less that it burst, even with 2 CAT scans. And they were debating whether or not they should put, you know, give me a blood transfusion because I was pretty low on iron and I really didn't want that. So they were ready to let me go at some point in the night. And the last person that came into the room, who I thought was a nurse, was also a naturopathic doctor. And she said, you know, I know where you are.

I know what you're feeling because I was there too. She said, I, you know, she was younger than me, so she had a fibroid before she had had children. And she found this amazing surgeon down in Boston who agreed that if he went in to take the fibroid out and found that there was other things that needed to be addressed, she wanted to be woken up and have a conversation with him to give her permission. And he agreed. And I thought, holy moly, this guy is my kind of person. So I went down and had a preliminary interview. I really liked him. I trusted him.

And so I call it my one and only surgery, knock on wood. Um, I went down to Boston and I had it removed and I recovered extremely quickly, which was wonderful, but it was terrifying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I guess, I guess so. And Well, for people just beginning this journey, it can really feel intimidating. I'm sure people have told you that. Is clean living about striving for perfection or is it really about making better choices one step at a time?

Absolutely. I think that, I mean, I don't think perfection makes sense for any endeavor because what does it even mean, right? And so especially when it comes to clean living, there's so much to know, there's so many, pieces of misinformation. And largely that's in the form of greenwashing, companies that are putting things on their labels, particularly on the front of the packaging, that give the impression that it's healthy and natural. And actually, that word natural is one of the terms that are completely meaningless. I think a lot of people for years thought natural was the same thing as certified organic, and it's not. And there's really no legal definition, much less an independent agency that can verify that. So I think That whole topic of greenwashing and trying to figure out, am I making a better choice than what I had been doing before? How do I know that I'm actually doing something better? It's the kind of topic that I've really delved into and I've really helped people come up with more of a framework. I give the information in the swaps for sure, but in my Nontoxic Reimagined course, I wanted to make sure that people were asking the right questions.

What am I preparing my food on? Does that make a difference? How am I, you know, what am I cooking my food in? Does that make a difference? Am I using a microwave? Is that a scary thing or is that not a big deal? So all these different questions I'm having people ask themselves, they can use for other questions around products in the home or even holistic health strategies because It's really looking at what is driving that change in behavior and is it really moving the needle forward? So I don't feel like there's any need for trying to strive for perfection. Just making one choice, seeing how it feels, and then building upon that and, you know, building some momentum over time. But the real key is that it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's really each person, you know, different dietary things, different budget things, different sensitivities. There's so many different factors. So Yeah, I think it's, it's definitely got to be personally developed.

We're going to ask you more about that later. But you brought up labels and marketing, and some of the biggest challenges everyone has is marketing. And what, what's the label or advertising claim that even very health-conscious shoppers fall for?

Well, I fell for it until I did a deep dive on 100 different label claims, and it was wild-caught. mean, that's one of them actually. I should say there's quite a few.

Oh, okay.

But wild-caught, I assumed meant, oh, dolphin safe. They're not trolling and, you know, dragging other fish into them, into their nets. And then I realized unless it had, I think it's the Marine Stewardship Council. I think it's MSC is the logo. If you see that on a can of tuna or salmon, you know that that's actually you know, a good brand that's doing the right thing. But there are some faking going around in the fish industry. Apparently they can swap different fish even though it might say salmon. Maybe it's salmon, maybe it's not.

It's hard to know. But I always thought wild-caught, oh, they're swimming in the ocean. I know there's a lot of plastic in the ocean, but at least that's better than being farmed, you know, farm-raised.

What if you go to, go to like a butcher shop and it says wild-caught Is that—

Well, that's a really good question. So I would ask that butcher, where does this come from? How do I know that this is— or how do you know, Mr. or Miss Butcher, whether this is actually truly wild-caught? Is there any kind of certifying, you know, label that goes with that fish when you purchase it? So that's where getting to know— it's the same thing with your farmers, you know, getting to know what their practices are. Same thing With butchers or cheesemongers, I think they're called, or, you know, anybody that sells food.

And what about farm-raised fish? Is that bad for you?

Yeah, I think farm-raised fish, it's kind of like factory-farmed meat because they're in a contained area. Even if it's in ocean waters, it's all within, I don't even know if it's within ocean waters, to be honest with you. It may be more like a tank as opposed to an ocean setting, but they have to give them antibiotics, Typically because they, you know, aren't as clean. The feed, I don't know what they're feeding them, but it's not necessarily their natural diet. So I see, I liken it to, you know, the confined animal feedlot type of thing for animals on the ground, but only in water.

Yeah, makes sense. And the other thing that you peripherally referred to that we can discuss is the word natural. It sounds reassuring, but it doesn't necessarily mean safe. So how can consumers recognize the difference between a truly non-toxic product and one that's simply been greenwashed, as you explained before?

So the best— one of the best labels that we have, even though I have a caveat for this, but the USDA Certified Organic label is the one that is probably the most regulated. So We have an organic farm, certified organic farm here in Vermont. Every year we have an inspector come out. She spends hours with my husband Dave, and they go over all the records of every seed he purchased. How much did he yield as far as the amount of you know pounds of that vegetable or fruit? They look even over our website to make sure that we don't make any claims that aren't accurate. So we sell some local. jams and pickles, for example, that cannot be labeled as organic because those are not certified organic, even though everything that we grow is. Or our maple syrup, they don't spray their trees, but he hasn't gone through the expense and the process of certifying the maple orchard.

So we don't call that organic. We just call that Hartsworn maple syrup. So, and, and there is the possibility for surprise visits, although I don't know that that's ever happened to him in the 35 or so years that he's been a certified organic farmer. So all that to say, that is the one label that is actually much more verifiable and regulated. But my caveat about that is that when the USDA took over, they actually wanted to include genetically modified organisms. They wanted to include food irradiation and to use sewage sludge as fertilizer. which would have rendered the organic food pretty much the same as conventional. And there was a huge outcry.

I feel like it was hundreds of thousands of people wrote comments to say, hey, this is not what we signed up for. You know, the organic movement had been built upon the idea that this was an alternative. And ironically, certified organic food is the way food used to be grown. We now have to call it organic versus You know, conventional or food. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I think that it's, it's probably the most, um, trustworthy label. Not that there aren't cheaters, but as far as comparing to all the other labels, it's, it's one of the better ones.

Yeah. But organic food can be expensive. And what do you, what do you tell families who are on a budget? And if somebody buys, can't buy everything organic, Where should they focus their money to make the biggest difference?

So that's a great question. So usually I tell people to look up the Dirty Dozen and the Clean 15, which is a list that's put out annually by the Environmental Working Group. And they're taking the information that the EPA publishes about the pesticide residues that they've tested on these varieties of fruits and vegetables. So the Dirty Dozen are the ones that have the highest pesticide residue. That's things like strawberries and spinach. Those are the ones you wanna prioritize to be certified organic. The Clean 15 are the ones that don't have particularly high levels, or sometimes no pesticides are detected. And that would be things like—

Like broccoli?

I don't think broccoli's on that list, but pineapple, avocado, things with thicker skins, onions, I think typically show up on that list. So those are the things I usually encourage people to start with. However, the actual more meaningful choices are still gonna be more expensive, but the meat and dairy where there's fat involved, that tends to concentrate pesticides and other types of chemicals. So it's probably a good starting point, but if you really wanna make a difference in your health, you might wanna look at what you're eating. If you're eating meat, you wanna try to favor the wild-caught, the truly wild-caught fish.

Yeah.

Or grass-raised, grass-raised, grass-finished?

Am I getting that term right?

Grass-fed, grass-finished. Thank you.

Grass-fed, grass-finished. Yes. And pasture-raised organic eggs versus just cage-free. So those are some probably more meaningful changes. But here's the thing that most people don't realize. The cost of organic food is not elevated because the farmers think, oh, I can get more for this. The amount of work that goes into raising food on a certified organic farm is so overwhelming. When I bring people through with tours, they cannot believe the amount of work that my husband and our staff do to get these plants to grow.

And it's really about growing healthy soil. The thing is, there's so many government subsidies for the conventional food, particularly the big corn, wheat, soy, the things that are in almost all processed foods and animal feed. So the cost that you're paying for organic food is more true to what it's costing the farmer to grow that food versus the cheaper conventional with more synthetic stuff, sometimes toxic. Those kinds of ingredients are much cheaper. And so it looks like You know, when you're comparing an organic thing to a conventional thing, it looks like that the organic is more expensive. And, you know, from a dollars and cents perspective, it is. But like I said, you're paying the truer cost of the food versus what's going on as far as subsidies and whatnot.

Well, regarding your organic farm in Vermont, what has working the land taught you about food and soil and health That surprised even you? Is there something?

Huh.

Well, one thing that surprised me, having been an organic gardener and then actually growing commercially, the amount of work that goes into it is just mind-boggling. I think the other thing is, so I grew up in New York City, of all places, and I always dreamt of living in a beautiful place like Vermont, ideally on a farm. And so when I was growing up in New York, I didn't really think too much about the weather and how that might impact different things unless it was, I wanted to go to the beach and couldn't get to Long Island without having to deal with rain. But on a farm, every day we are so focused on what's happening with the weather. And then that impacts things like fungus and different types of diseases and pests. And then even strawberries, we have these amazing organic strawberries. Some seasons like this one was a fantastic strawberry season, but other ones for no apparent reason, they don't do well. And some, you know, there's a lot of covering of the crops in the springtime, cuz in Vermont we still can get frosts in May.

And so there's this whole dance that goes into growing this food that I don't think most people are thinking about.

You're making us appreciate it so much more.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I do. Even still. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, I love hearing about this because it just, uh, is something that I think everybody needs to hear and not very few people know about it. Um, and, and again, most people assume government regulations protect us from unsafe products.

Yeah.

And profit wins over people often. When it comes to food and consumer safety. Can you give us some examples of what you mean by that?

Right, so I'll give you a perfect example. So there's different technologies that have been developed for food to make it last longer on the shelf. So one thing I learned early on was that that tomato, even if it's organic, that is on the supermarket shelf, may first of all have been picked when it was totally green without any red on it and then sat in a warehouse for a while while it ripened. A lot of food, particularly the, the fresh stuff— fresh in parentheses, um, or in quotes rather— is oftentimes a week old by the time it even arrives at the store.

Hmm.

So they've been coming up with these different technologies to try to make the food look fresher, and I find that to be Not at all for our benefit as a consumer, but this is really about you know how to keep something on the shelf looking fresher longer so that they can sell it, even if it's completely devoid of any nutrients at that point. So there's some there's been a lot of controversy about some coatings, one of them called appeal, and then there was one approved for organic production or organic fruits and vegetables called organ appeal. And that whole idea of putting some kind of a waxy substance on a fruit or vegetable just to keep it looking fresher longer, I find really not, not apparent, not acceptable.

What is that white film over the, over blueberries? I've always wondered what that is. Every time I buy organic blueberries, they're kind of like a white color or a white film over it that can be washed off with hot water, but not cold.

Oh, that's interesting. I'm not quite sure what that is. It could potentially be that Organipiel. I would have to look into that. I'm not quite sure. Yeah. And one of the things—

They put that stuff on tomatoes a lot, right? That's why they're so shiny.

Well, apples, I know they put wax on and probably they're using that Organipiel or Apeel. Yeah, I think, and then there's some issues too that I've heard about supermarkets spraying some kind of bactericide type of product on the vegetables. Now they're not supposed to be doing that on the certified organic stuff. That's not allowed. I don't know how well monitored that is. So that always makes me wonder. So my preference is, of course, if you can grow it yourself, that's ideal.

Yeah.

The next step would be to, you know, go to the farmer's market, find the certified organic farms, because oftentimes when farmers say, well, I grow according to organic standards, how do we know that? If they don't get the same booklet every year that my husband gets and things change, you know, different substances are approved one year and maybe found to be not particularly good the next year.

Oh.

The 2 questions though that I would ask any farmer who says that is, what are you doing to grow your soil? How are you making your soil healthy? And then secondly, are you using any kind of synthetic pesticides? Because I think just removing the word toxic might make them answer more honestly, hopefully. But anything synthetic, you want to have them using biological things, whether it's neem oil or What used to be really effective was something called BT, Bacillus thuringiensis. I forget exactly the Latin name, but that actually has been not as effective because they've incorporated it into some of the genetically modified seeds so that those pests are less resistant or are more resistant to that BT than they used to be.

Yeah.

So that's an issue.

And on the processed foods and things. Reading labels is something we all say we should do, but most of us don't really know what we're looking for. So if consumers became better label readers overnight, how might that change the marketplace?

Well, I think that would definitely change because people would be avoiding certain things, choosing other things, and every time we spend our money, we're saying we want more of that. And I think that's one of the ways that we actually have a lot more power is that we're not necessarily just victims who are, you know, being played by a system, but we actually have choices that we can make. And I have 2 resources on my website. One is a free guide that's the 10 Words on Food Labels That Are Lying to You. So that's a good starting point for people. They can grab that, print it out, take it with them to the store. And then if they wanna dive deeper, I actually have a, an ebook called, excuse me, The Comprehensive Guide to Food Label Claims. That's the 100.

Hang on. I'm, I'm wondering if you could give us one, a hint to one that we shouldn't buy.

Well, so we did actually talk about wild-caught was one. Natural is one. Um, oh, cage-free or no antibiotics added. Meaningless. Yeah, so there's a whole bunch. There's— and actually, when I did that deep dive for the ebook, out of the 100 labels, claims that I read, about a third of them were really useful, a third were somewhat useful, and a third were completely useless. And in that ebook, I also talk about the things like use-by dates, and the things that are required on the front of the packaging and the back of the packaging. And the most important place to pay attention to is the back.

The ingredients are the really important ones. The front of the label is where the marketing claims get placed because that's what attracts you to the product. If it's in, you know, some sort of eco-friendly looking colors or, you know, it says not toxic or organic on the front, but then you look at the back and you realize, hey, there's nothing certified organic in this product. How are they using that word organic?

Yeah.

And, and that, that sort of leads me to another area, which is most of us assume when we go into a natural food store that everything has kind of been vetted to be the cleanest, and that's not necessarily true. There's different brands. So a perfect example, here in Vermont there's a conventional chicken and turkey company, and, you know, they can claim Vermont grown, which is fine, but they're in the same, you know, health food store along with the certified organic chicken and pastured poultry, uh, pastured pork and, and whatnot. But I actually called them when I first moved up here, and I wanted to know, you know, first of all, did the chickens go outside? I saw the turkeys when I passed by. And they said, well— and they were honest with me, which I really appreciated— they said, well, they have access to the outdoors, but they don't really go out. And so that makes a difference. If they're not outside getting sunshine, eating grass and bugs and all the things that chickens normally would do, they're not going to be as healthy a bird and therefore not as good for us to eat.

Wow.

And also their life quality. I mean, I feel like I have this philosophical struggle with the idea of eating animals because I don't love the idea that, you know, their lives are being taken so that we can eat them. But at the same time, I've tried vegetarianism and it didn't work for me. So, I, I go through that kind of struggle when I, I try not to think about it too much, um, or else I would probably not eat them.

But yeah. Um, you know, and many of our listeners are baby boomers and they want to stay healthy and, and independent as long as possible.

Yes.

So are there certain toxins or exposures that become even more important to avoid as we age?

Ooh, that's an interesting question. I think that there's a whole host of toxins beyond the food that we haven't delved into yet. And some of them are fragrance chemicals. So think about whatever you're washing your clothing and bedding in, you're exposed to that 24/7. Most of the time, those have pretty toxic fragrances, and those fragrances can be made up of even 200 different chemicals. And they don't have to tell you what they are because it's proprietary. So anything with fragrance, that includes air fresheners, plugins, um, I mean everything we, we practice.

I'm really scared of those air fresheners. I see those, I've never bought one, but when I see people putting that in their home and it shows the little animation of the thing, it's like, why would you want that in your nose, in your body?

Incense.

Yes, and some, there are some pure incenses, but one of the things I've discovered, if you have pets, they're much more sensitive to smell than we are. So I'm imagining not only are they smelling people's clothing very strongly, but if you're burning incense regularly, and my daughter lives in an apartment now in Massachusetts where her neighbor across the hall burns incense constantly, and I just, going up the stairs, I feel like I've gotta hold my breath. But yeah, there's so many different things. So one of the first things I recommend people do is if they don't want to go fully to the completely natural laundry detergents, or laundry soaps are really what they are, at least go fragrance-free. It's different than free and clear. Free and clear is okay, but not as good. It can still have masking agents that maybe are covering up some of those Toxic synthetic things. Definitely get rid of the air fresheners and the plugins and the, you know, incense if it's not a really pure blend.

And let me think, some of the things that you were asking about for older people. Well, there's a lot of hormone disruptors in a lot of beauty care products, for example. And that probably—

How would you know?

Yeah, so you'd have to actually get one of those apps. There's a variety of different apps. I haven't really used them, but I think Yuka is one of them.

How do you spell that?

Y-U-K-A. Actually, there's a good— if you go onto the Environmental Working Group, ewg.org website, they have a cosmetics database. They have all kinds of databases, including one for water, so that if you are on a municipal system, you plug in your area code and you can see what are the contaminants of concern, what the EPA thinks is safe versus what other independent experts think are safe. But there's— it will define those chemicals for you so you can find out which ones are hormone disruptors. So you can look— well, they'll even actually look at the product and say, this is, you know, this gets an XYZ score because— and then it tells you.

Wow.

In fact, there's even an app on Amazon Um, it's like an extension that you can put on to your search when you're on Amazon. Oh, I can, I can see it in my mind's eye, but I can't think of the name of it. Clear something? Well, I'll have to give that information for you to put in the show notes if you want.

Okay.

Um, but yeah, so when, even when you're on Amazon and, you know, we all know that ideally it's best not to purchase from these huge corporate entities, but sometimes that's, you know, the best option.

Easier.

Exactly.

And sometimes easier for— You're not close.

I mean, I still do it. So yeah, there's that whole question about perfection again, right?

Hopefully this is accurate, but I heard an extraordinary story about you witnessing a military veteran finding sobriety after attending one of your retreats. So what did that experience teach you about the healing power of nature, community, and reducing toxic influences in our lives?

Oh my gosh, it was absolutely extraordinary. Um, that was my first retreat, and I did a blend of organic gardening experiences. We did juicing, we talked about food, we made food together, we did a variety of different holistic practices, including working with horses.

Wow.

And so it was a mind-body-spirit experience, really. It wasn't just, you know, one category. And I think, like you mentioned, community was a big piece of it too. I had 6 women, 3 of them were veterans and 3 were non-veterans. And one of the things that veteran— well, I think both men and women both struggle with is kind of reentering society and feeling connected to People that have not been through the experiences that they've been through. And my gosh, some of these women who were veterans had incredible trauma in their military experience. However, through this experience, and this was a longer-term one than I typically do, so I did it as a pilot to see how it would work. So I had them for 5 days a week for 4 weeks.

Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, it was a lot.

It was intense. And so I think that made it so much more powerful than, you know, like a 3-day or a 5-day. Not that people haven't gotten value from those, but with some kind of a significant issue like, you know, alcoholism, which she told me when she first started that she was still drinking, but by the time she was through that experience, she had stopped and she's continued to be sober. And that was—

Wow.

Gosh, 11 years ago. So I think that whole mind-body-spirit experience, like you said, connecting with nature and eating really good quality food, detoxing your home environment. I think for them, the experience with horses was incredibly powerful because horses can be like life coaches for us humans. They tend to be a mirror.

I know. I've been around horses my whole life. Have you?

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I used to breed them and I rode them for Oh, years and years and years and years. I don't ride right now, but I— yeah, I have seen how magical they are. Very mad. And they're so good at healing, um, people with disabilities.

Yes. Well, and there's been a lot of work with veterans and horses. Uh, Monty Roberts is, is somebody that—

I was about to say that.

Was— yeah. And he's done corporate retreats too, so he's worked with both veterans as well as corporate leaders, which I think is fascinating, with his Join Up method, which we actually used in that retreat, my horse whisperer friend did, with each participant.

Oh, nice.

That sounds exciting.

Yeah, it does. I'd love to come to a retreat.

Awesome. Yeah, next summer.

All on your farm.

Yes. Yep, exactly.

Well, you had mentioned, you had just mentioned that there's You mentioned all of these chemicals that we rarely think about in our homes from cleaning products and fragrances. What about furniture? And also, if someone wanted to make just 3 changes this month, what would you— that would have a real impact on their lives, what would you recommend?

Okay, so to answer the furniture question, yes, that's a big deal. Trying to favor solid wood versus synthetic wood is important. Ideally getting rid of carpets and vinyl flooring, favoring hardwood floors, ceramic tile, natural cork. I actually refinished my old house, the basement, or we renovated it and turned it into a living space and put a beautiful natural cork floor down with a safe sealant. But yes, furniture, especially your bed, that's a really important one. If you're going to make a switch for furniture, go with your bed first because that— when you're sleeping, you're breathing in whatever your bed is outgassing. And so, the thing to know about whether it's cleaning products, body care products, furniture, paint, stains, all that kind of stuff, what happens is that those chemicals outgas into our indoor air. And the EPA tells us that our indoor air in our homes can be more toxic than the polluted air in a city.

Hmm.

And that's because There's so many different chemicals that are coming out of these products. Imagine when you walk down the aisle of the supermarket where the cleaning products are, you know how you can smell all that stuff in those tightly sealed bottles? It's effervescing out of the plastic containers. Well, the same type of thing is happening in our homes. And one of the reasons—

Mm-hmm.

Oh, sorry. One of the reasons why that's become so challenging is that We are closing up our homes to be more energy efficient. And so that's kind of concentrating those chemicals into our environment. And so if we don't at least open the windows, you know, every day for 10 minutes and circulate that air or get some kind of an air circulator, then that's just gonna build up. So—

And air conditioning.

Air conditioning.

Oh yeah.

You wanna make sure you don't have molds coming through that. That's another thing that people don't always check their filters and make sure that those are up to date and clean. So the top 3 things I would say, getting rid of the fragrances, starting with the laundry detergent, at least starting with the Clean 15 and the Dirty Dozen as far as prioritizing your produce choices. And then third one I would say, Oh, you know, I think there's gotta be a stress relief factor because if we're so focused on, you know, everything's causing us to be sick or causes cancer, you know, some people just throw up their hands and say, why bother? I can't, you know, manage all of that. So having some kind of a practice, whether it's walking in nature regularly or meditation or, you know, some sort of mindfulness or journaling, Deep breathing exercises. I feel like that's a really important piece that doesn't always get talked about, that we need to manage that stress in some ways too so that we don't— I mean, I see women on these different Facebook group pages all the time asking questions about this or that product, and they're, they're just overwhelmed with, you know, everything is so toxic, how do I make a decision? And then they choose something and then somebody says, oh no, that's no good. So I think finding that stress management type of activity is probably the third most important one.

Thank you for that. We hear more and more about microplastics, forever chemicals, endocrine disruptors. How concerned should the average person be, and how do we stay informed without becoming fearful?

So I think that it is an important topic, and I think if somebody already has an existing hormonal imbalance, then what they're using in their home, whether it's, you know, beauty care, cleaning products, furniture, paints, etc., you probably want to pay more attention to those chemicals that impact your hormones. I mean, it impacts all of us. And so those of us, you know, babies and young children and elderly tend to be the most vulnerable, or people who have discovered that they have chemical sensitivities. And that can come even from just mold exposure that they didn't even realize. I've interviewed a bunch of people on my own podcast where they have had all these different symptoms and didn't know what was causing it, went through the whole conventional, you know, Western system and kept getting put on one pharmaceutical after another and it wasn't getting any better. So they finally figured it out on their own or discovered some sort of, you know, healing practitioner that helped them. But one woman was incredibly sick and she was young and active and physically fit. But she couldn't keep food down, and it was because of some undisclosed mold in the apartment that she was renting.

So there's things that, you know, can be causing stuff— us to feel poorly, and we don't necessarily know what that is. So finding a good holistic practitioner is a really important thing if we can. You know, if you're having symptoms of some kind and you aren't able to solve it through the regular—

Yeah.

you know, doctor visits or specialist visits. I've got a bunch of wonderful practitioners that I've talked to, you know, on the podcast that I— my daughter's actually working with one of them now.

What's the name of your podcast?

So it's the Green Living Now Podcast, just like the name of my business.

Perfect.

We'll have to tune in. Oh, that'd be great. And for somebody who's hearing this for the very first time, and, and I think you did go over this, but if you'd reiterate, What's the single most important first step they can take today that doesn't cost much and can make a real difference?

I think I would go with the fragrance-free. That would be the first step, you know, trying to replace your products that are heavily scented, whether it's laundry or, you know, get rid of the air fresheners and plugins. That's an easy saving you money kind of step. I think the fragrance would probably be the top number one.

Even perfume?

Oh gosh, yes. Perfume, cologne. Try to get rid of those. Switch to—

Oh, really?

Yeah. You know, it's funny.

I—

we have an open-air farm stand, so I can see through the open, you know, airspace when somebody's pulling up in their car and getting out, and I can smell if they're wearing cologne or perfume before they even get inside. That's how strong it is. And also, once you've kind of removed that from your life, you smell it so much more strongly.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, so perfumes, colognes, you know, there are some natural ones that are based on essential oils and don't have toxic synthetic stuff in it, but those are a little bit harder to find. Um, yeah, so that, that's another area that we didn't even talk about as far as scents.

Well, yeah, I actually bought A, um, a fig essential oil, and I've been mixing a little bit of it with water, and I use it as a spray for fragrance, and it's very good.

Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, rose water is another one that I like. There's a rose water, natural rose water spray, um, that it doesn't last very long, but it's nice to spritz your face and hair with in the summer especially. Yeah, but there's all kinds of alternative, you know, things that you can use if you really want to wear some kind of a perfume. There are some companies that are making some good quality ones. I haven't really explored any lately, but I know they're out there.

And Amy, where can listeners learn more about your work, your educational programs, and Green Living Now?

So the website would be the best place, greenlivingnow.com. Everything is linked there.

Perfect.

Amy, before we let you go though, we're gonna play a quick round of myth or fact.

Oh, okay.

So just give us your first reaction and then tell us why.

Okay.

Go, Merry.

Alrighty, let's see. Organic fruits and vegetables should always be peeled before eating.

Not necessarily needed. I think wash them maybe if there's a little dirt on them, but if they're truly certified organic and grown without any kind of pesticides, People just leave the farm stand eating strawberries and blueberries and carrots and whatnot. So I don't think that's necessary.

Okay. Here's another one. Glass food containers are generally a healthier choice than plastic.

Oh yes. And I will take it a step further because I have glass food containers, but they all come with plastic tops. I put a little piece of unbleached wax paper between the food and the top so that my food is never touching the plastic.

Is that like parchment?

Um, yeah, it's similar. I, I think the unbleached is the key because other, you know, the white regular type of parchment or wax paper is typically bleached, probably has, you know, chlorine somewhere in there. Um, so the unbleached, they don't— it's brown and it looks healthy.

Oh, okay.

But I keep— yeah, I keep my food— I tried the best I can to eliminate as much plastic as I can. And that's one good way.

And you answered this before, but again, if, if the label says natural, it's safe.

Completely untrue and a useless term.

Yeah. Bottled water is healthier than tap water.

No.

Um, not all tap water is the same. And like I mentioned, going onto that ewg.org website, put your zip code in and find out if you're on a municipal system, what's in your tap water. But I would say Tap water is— well, bottled water typically is tap water, but then you've got the added problem of the plastic. So if you have tap water, the ideal thing to do is get a filter and then you can, you know, make it even cleaner. And also consider your shower and bath water. There's filters for that too.

Okay. Here's another one that you were very adamant about. Air fresheners make the air in our homes healthier.

Definitely not.

Wrong.

The opposite is true.

And if a cleaning product smells like lemons or lavender, it's probably made with natural ingredients.

No, oftentimes it's not. You have to look at the back of the— in the ingredient list to see what kind of lemon, because it could be a synthetic lemon scent. Most likely it's a fragrance as opposed to a true essential oil.

Right. Nonstick cookware. We didn't talk about that. It's always safe as long as you don't scratch it.

No, I would say that nonstick cookware is a good thing to avoid. The high heat is one thing. Scratching it definitely makes it more of a problem. But the high heat part of it, eventually those particles are going to break down and get into your food. There's much better choices like stainless steel and glass. And, and there's a little thing about iron. So everyone's always thought iron skillets were super healthy. Now they are, but keep in mind the fact that if you're a menopausal woman or a man, you don't need that extra iron.

Hmm.

And the reason being is that you're not menstruating it out anymore. So if you're eating on iron skillets all the time, you may be consuming too much iron. Now I've heard Some doctors say, oh, well, most people are deficient in iron, not a big deal. But, you know, figure it out for yourself whether that is something you want.

Is buying local produce sometimes better than buying organic produce that's been shipped halfway around the world?

It really depends on how that local produce is grown. As far as the shipping aspect, it's much better to get things grown closer to home, but if it's pesticide-laden, It's not really any better. You know, it may be fresher, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better for you.

Right.

And, and here's something that you did discuss as well. Um, what's one household product almost everyone should have— should replace before— as soon as it's used up?

Replace?

Um, I would say those air fresheners and plugins. I wouldn't even use them up. I would just get rid of them.

And one other question, one other question on back on the pots and pans. What about clay pots?

I think as long as they don't have any lead, and the newer ones I don't think do, they have a ceramic glaze. But just to make sure that it's been tested for lead, I think the ceramic pots are fine. And finally, finish this sentence: clean living doesn't have to be perfect because There is nothing perfect in this world, and trying to, trying to reach some kind of an unachievable goal just causes stress.

I love that. Agreed. Amy, thank you for sharing your decades of wisdom with us. You've shown us that living healthier doesn't have to mean living perfectly. It simply means becoming more informed and making better choices over time.

Exactly. Every little small step matters, whether it's reading one more label, choosing a cleaner product, or buying a little more fresh food. Those choices add up over a lifetime.

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