Shownotes
In this episode of Gun Owners of America's State of the Second, hosts Kaylee and John sit down in East Tennessee with Mike Darter, founder and CEO of CCW Safe, to talk through what actually happens after a self-defense incident and why a plan matters before you ever carry. Mike spent 20 years in law enforcement, and the company grew out of a shooting he was involved in on a raid that left two drug dealers dead and led to a federal lawsuit he won at summary judgment. His Fraternal Order of Police membership covered the year-and-a-half case, and when he left law enforcement he realized he no longer had that protection. He and his stepbrother Kyle Sweet, a former cop turned attorney, looked for something comparable for civilians, found only insurance, and started CCW Safe in 2012.
Mike walks through how the service works in practice. CCW Safe is a membership, not insurance, a deliberate choice because insurance cannot cover intentional acts and an attorney could argue pulling a trigger is intentional. A member calls a 24-hour center, the call is patched to one of two on-call attorneys, and attorney-client privilege starts within minutes. A critical response team of former homicide detectives gets boots on the ground that day or the next, and national trial counsel Don West vets and hires the best local attorney for that specific case rather than pulling from a pre-set list. Coverage runs beyond the courtroom to investigators, expert witnesses, biohazard cleanup, counseling, and even workout and diet plans, which he illustrates through the Stephen Maddox murder-one case in Wilson, North Carolina. He explains why CCW Safe covers brandishing and non-firearm self-defense, why they pulled out of Washington and New Jersey to stay in 48 states, and how they keep members healthy mentally, emotionally, and physically.
The back half turns to culture and education. Mike, Kaylee, and John talk about an increasingly anti-gun climate, the media's rush to judgment, and the case for being prepared whether or not you buy coverage. Mike points listeners to the free case studies on CCW Safe's site, including the Ted Wafer case, and shares how one member avoided a shooting because he remembered it. The hosts and Mike trade range-day stories about new and green shooters, immigrants who fight to exercise the freedom they never had, and the need to rebuild youth shooting sports. They close on GOA's inaugural Gun Owners Advocacy and Leadership Summit, August 17 and 18 in Knoxville, Tennessee, where CCW Safe will have a booth.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What is CCW Safe and how did Mike Darter's law enforcement experience lead him to start it?
CCW Safe is a self-defense legal-coverage membership for gun owners, founded in 2012 by Mike Darter and his stepbrother Kyle Sweet. Darter spent 20 years in law enforcement and was sued over a raid shooting; his police union covered that case, and he saw civilians had no comparable protection.
Why is CCW Safe a membership service instead of insurance?
It is a membership by design because insurance cannot cover intentional acts, and an attorney could argue that pulling a trigger is an intentional act. The membership model lets CCW Safe fund a self-defense legal defense without that coverage gap.
What happens in the minutes and days after a member calls following a self-defense incident?
A member calls a 24-hour center, the call is patched to one of two on-call attorneys, and attorney-client privilege begins within minutes. A critical response team of former homicide detectives gets on the ground that day or the next, and national trial counsel Don West hires the best local attorney for the case.
Why does CCW Safe vet and hire a local attorney for each case instead of using a pre-set list?
National trial counsel Don West vets and hires the best local attorney for that specific case rather than pulling from a pre-set list, matching the defense to the facts and jurisdiction of each incident.
What does CCW Safe cover beyond legal fees?
Coverage extends past the courtroom to investigators, expert witnesses, biohazard cleanup, counseling, and even workout and diet plans, with the goal of keeping members healthy mentally, emotionally, and physically. CCW Safe also covers brandishing and non-firearm self-defense, not just shootings.
Why did CCW Safe pull out of Washington and New Jersey?
CCW Safe pulled out of Washington and New Jersey so it could keep operating in 48 states. Darter frames it as a deliberate choice to stay viable across the rest of the country.
What should gun owners do to be prepared before they ever have to use a firearm?
Darter's core message is that you need to be prepared before you carry, treating yourself as your own first responder. He points listeners to the free case studies on CCW Safe's site, including the Ted Wafer case, and notes one member avoided a shooting because he remembered one.
When and where is Gun Owners of America's inaugural Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit?
Gun Owners of America's inaugural Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) is August 17 and 18 in Knoxville, Tennessee, where CCW Safe will have a booth.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and meeting Mike from CCW Safe
- 00:20 — Mike's origin story and the shooting that started it
- 02:35 — Why CCW Safe left Washington and New Jersey
- 04:01 — What happens when a member calls after a shooting
- 06:10 — Attorney-client privilege starts in minutes
- 07:22 — Why CCW Safe covers brandishing cases
- 09:02 — Defending cases in California
- 11:27 — Vetting the right local attorney, the Maddox case
- 15:53 — Why not insurance and the captive insurance company
- 19:51 — Free case studies and the Ted Wafer case
- 28:13 — Core values, dedication, commitment, caring
- 32:19 — Acting as your own first responder and being prepared
- 33:52 — Anti-gun culture, the media, and education
- 47:48 — New shooters, immigrants, and building an on-ramp
- 1:02:04 — GOA Summit in Knoxville and where to find CCW Safe
About the guest
Mike Darter is the founder and CEO of CCW Safe. He spent 20 years in law enforcement, including time as a gang unit officer. While on a raid he was involved in a shooting that left two drug dealers dead, was sued in federal court, and won the case at summary judgment after about a year and a half, with his Fraternal Order of Police membership covering the costs. He co-founded CCW Safe with his stepbrother Kyle Sweet, a former police officer turned trial attorney who serves as general counsel, starting the company in 2012. Mike has three daughters, leads wildlife photo tours several times a year, and previously ran a judo school. He is an Oklahoma fan and played rugby at OU. CCW Safe operates a range outside Oklahoma City.
Key quotes
"The only thing that's out there is insurance and that's not a great product for that." — Mike Darter
"insurance cannot cover intentional acts" — Mike Darter
"if you're involved in a shooting, it's the worst thing, most traumatic thing you've probably ever been involved in." — Mike Darter
"that's our job to keep our members healthy mentally, emotionally, and physically." — Mike Darter
"I think the biggest thing is you need to be prepared." — Mike Darter
"the best thing that you can do to encourage someone to become a gun owner is to build an on ramp for them." — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're here with Mike from CCW Safe.
Speaker B:Mike, how are you today?
Speaker B:Thank you for joining us in East Tennessee.
Speaker C:Good, thank you for having me.
Speaker C:It's great to be here.
Speaker B:So let's go ahead and we'll start with, you know, what is CCW Safe?
Speaker B:And a little bit about your origin story.
Speaker B:Tell us who you are, what you've done, things like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I'm Mike Darter.
Speaker C:I'm the founder and CEO.
Speaker C:CCW Safe was founded on a personal experience that I had as a police officer.
Speaker C:I was in law enforcement for 20 years.
Speaker C:During that time I was involved in a shooting, on a raid, ended up killing two drug dealers, got sued in federal court, won that case.
Speaker C:But it took about a year and a half to get through that case.
Speaker C:Luckily I was a member of the Fraternal Order of Police, so they covered everything.
Speaker C:So my stress level during that time was super low from what it would be normally.
Speaker C:You know, financing something like that even at that time probably would have been a couple hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker C:Got to summary judgment, got kicked out at summary judgment.
Speaker C:So we won the case.
Speaker C:But years later when I left law enforcement, I realized I don't have that anymore.
Speaker C:You know, I don't have the ability to have somebody fund, fund a trial if, if that happened again.
Speaker C:I carry, I had a small, you know, I have three daughters.
Speaker C:They were young at that time.
Speaker C:So I was carrying and talked to my brother Kyle Sweet, who is the general counsel and called him one day and said, hey, I need some protection.
Speaker C:You know, I need.
Speaker C:And he was a former cop as well, turned attorney.
Speaker C:And he said, you know, I need the same thing.
Speaker C:So he said, let me, let me look around, see what I can find for us.
Speaker C:And about a week later he called me, said, man, there's, there's really nothing out there that's going to give us the protection that we had as, as officers.
Speaker C:The only thing that's out there is insurance and that's not a great product for that.
Speaker C:So he said we need to do this.
Speaker C: And that was in: Speaker C: We started it: Speaker C: We: Speaker C:And that was the case of Stephen Maddox.
Speaker C:That was in North Carolina.
Speaker C:So it's been a big journey for us.
Speaker C:And that's the backstory.
Speaker B:So now what?
Speaker B:So you Guys are in all 50 states, correct?
Speaker C:Well, yes, we pulled out of Washington and New Jersey.
Speaker C:So we got sued in Washington because they wanted us.
Speaker C:They were trying to say we're an insurance company and we're not an insurance company.
Speaker C:And what they were trying to say is that if we covered somebody in Washington and the way CCW Safe works, we have a critical response team, which is probably the number one thing that sets us apart.
Speaker C:But we have a critical response team of four former homicide detectives.
Speaker C:We have Don west who defended the Zimmerman case.
Speaker C:He's our national trial counsel and he's probably the lead defense attorney in the country.
Speaker C:Most experience 40 years plus.
Speaker C:And so we have this team that goes and finds the attorney, hires the attorney, pays for the attorney, pays for investigators, pays for expert witnesses and so forth.
Speaker C:And so, you know, in Washington they were saying if, if somebody's found guilty, they have to pay us back.
Speaker C:And so we said, no, we're not going to do that.
Speaker C:So we pulled out of Washington.
Speaker C:We're hopeful that maybe someday we'll be able to go back to state of Washington.
Speaker C:And New Jersey is just the armpit of America.
Speaker C:So you know, you know how that is.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, we're out of that.
Speaker C:So we're in 48 states.
Speaker B:So you guys, your, your legal services, it's not insurance like you said, right?
Speaker B:So when somebody makes a phone call to you guys, let's just say I was in a self defense shooting.
Speaker B:How, how does that scenario play out?
Speaker C:Okay, yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker C:We immediately, so we have a team, we have a 24 hour call center and we have a team of about 12 people that are on a text and as soon as that call comes through, everybody immediately gets texted.
Speaker C:Now the call goes to an attorney, we have two attorneys that cover call and they're like doctors, they're on call 24 hours a day.
Speaker C:So they take the call and then they triage it, see, okay, what, what happened?
Speaker C:Is this going to be a covered incident?
Speaker C:A lot of times we have people that join after the fact, after the fact that, you know, they, they have something happen and they join, you know, later and then call in.
Speaker C:So, and then from there we go to work.
Speaker C:If it's a, if it's an actual shooting, a lot of times it's brandishing cases which we cover.
Speaker C:But if it is actual shooting, then you know, we, that team immediately goes to work on the, on the, the member, their status, where they're at, where they live, their family members, who to contact and we Determine if we need boots on the ground.
Speaker C:We typically have boots on the ground that day or the next day.
Speaker C:Boots on the ground are former homicide detectives who have worked cases like this.
Speaker C:Don west generally starts with those two.
Speaker C:They go, and then they'll, you know, get with the member if they're in jail.
Speaker C:Don will work on the legal side of getting vetting attorneys in that area.
Speaker C:Who's the best attorney for that specific case while Gary is working with the family or the.
Speaker C:Whoever the homicide detective is working with the family on what the process is going to be.
Speaker C:And then if they're out of jail, we get with our member and then, you know, start working to get them an attorney as fast as we can.
Speaker A:So I have a question.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:You said that it was two attorneys that answer the phone.
Speaker A:So does that mean that the minute you call in, the.
Speaker A:The attorney client privilege starts?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it goes to a call center, and the call center is trained.
Speaker C:They don't ask any questions.
Speaker C:They just ask, is this an emergency?
Speaker C:If it's a yes, they say hold, and then they patch it through to an attorney.
Speaker C:So that goes to the attorney, and then immediately that starts the privilege.
Speaker C:So, and then.
Speaker A:So from incident, theoretically incident to talking with a lawyer is minutes.
Speaker C:Minutes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's on scene, you know, where this has just happened.
Speaker C:Sometimes before the police even arrive, they call the police.
Speaker C:And, you know, we have kind of an outline that we give our members the best, best practices.
Speaker C:Always call the police first, call paramedics of, you know, notify them at whatever you need and then call us.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's from jail, but most of the time it's.
Speaker C:It's on the scene or it's at a home where something has happened.
Speaker B:So now you.
Speaker B:You mentioned something that's very interesting.
Speaker B:A lot of your calls are brandishing cases, and you said you cover those.
Speaker B:A lot of companies don't cover that.
Speaker B:Why did you guys decide to cover brandishing?
Speaker C:Well, brandishing is interesting.
Speaker C:You know, it's like if you feel threat whom?
Speaker C:You know, if.
Speaker C:If you're threatened and you feel like you have to pull firearm to defend yourself, you're the only person that can articulate that.
Speaker C:And everybody's different.
Speaker C:You know, if somebody approaches you versus approaching us, it may be different.
Speaker C:You may feel more threatened than us.
Speaker C:So, you know, we look at the case, and as long as, you know, matches a police report, what they're telling us matches a police report, we'll go ahead and find an attorney and cover it.
Speaker C:Most of the time, those cases are are very small amounts of money.
Speaker C:You know, usually it's five to $10,000.
Speaker C:So it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker C:So we'll go ahead and cover it.
Speaker C:And the only time we don't is like if somebody, you know, makes a police report and it's totally different than what they tell us, but we still go ahead and hire the attorney, we get it going.
Speaker C:And in, in those cases we'll, you know, just get with the member and say, hey, from this point on you're on your own.
Speaker C:You don't have to pay us back.
Speaker C:We got you an attorney.
Speaker C:If you want to keep this attorney, you can keep them.
Speaker C:But you know, we're not covering that.
Speaker C:But those are very rare.
Speaker C:I mean usually that doesn't happen a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, so before the show we were talking about some of the states that have a lot of your members in it and one of them is being California.
Speaker B:You guys do a lot of cases in California?
Speaker B:What does that look like?
Speaker B:Because California is very anti gun.
Speaker C:Oh, very anti.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we were talking about that before, you know, outside of la, in the bay, California is actually a very conservative state and I never thought that we would have that many members.
Speaker C:You know, I never thought they would be one of our top states.
Speaker C:But it's very conservative outside of those areas.
Speaker C:Those areas are just so massive, you know, that you have to deal with that.
Speaker C:We actually had a case this last year of a member in LA and we got a no file, they didn't file on him.
Speaker C:And it was a actual shooting case and it was in one of those counties that was not a great county.
Speaker C:And you know, anytime we do have a call in California it's kind of like a pucker factor because you know, it's like, okay, what are we going to be dealing with?
Speaker C:But luckily, you know, all of our cases that we've had there have been fine.
Speaker C:Even though they're in these areas where you might not be the best area to be.
Speaker C:This last one was good because there was a video camera right where it happened.
Speaker C:So that's kind of undisputable.
Speaker B:Now how do you as, as a company combat, you know, you're going in a case, you know, that the district attorneys are judged on their win loss records and how they move up.
Speaker B:How do you combat, you know, them throwing on miscellaneous charges like discharging a firearm in city limits or any other the ridiculous charges that they tried to throw on top of it for illegal self defense shooting?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, and that's going to happen.
Speaker C:I mean that happens all the time.
Speaker C:So that's, that's up to the attorneys.
Speaker C:And that would be a really good question for Don, you know, in dealing with that.
Speaker C:But that's where, you know, and that's where Don comes in.
Speaker C:And Jennifer Chance also being able to vet these attorneys and getting these attorneys for our members that are the best in that specific case.
Speaker C:You know, because all these cases are different.
Speaker C:Every shooting is going to be different.
Speaker C:It's going to have different facts, factors, you know, different scenarios.
Speaker C:And so finding the right attorney for that specific case is very important.
Speaker C:And that's why, you know, we vet them and Don hires them.
Speaker C:And in the case, in the case of Stephen Maddox in North Carolina, he actually had one already in mind.
Speaker C:He's like, oh man, this.
Speaker C:So I've already know a guy there, he's going to be great for this case.
Speaker C:Well, the guy was like in Aruba for two weeks.
Speaker C:So he ended up going in, spending some time with one firm, hired two attorneys and it was the best decision ever for that specific case.
Speaker C:You know, they knew the judges, they knew all the, the landscape there.
Speaker C:They were local as a very small town, it was Wilson, North Carolina.
Speaker C:So it ended up being good.
Speaker C:And that's, that's one of the questions that comes up a lot is like, well, why can't I hire my own attorney?
Speaker C:And you can hire your own attorney if you want to.
Speaker C:You know, with our system the way it works, if you have an attorney, give it to Don, let him vet the attorney, and if, if it's good, then we'll hire him.
Speaker C:If you want to hire somebody else, that's fine, but we're going to recommend who we would hire.
Speaker C:And really, you know, I've been involved in a shooting and I, I know that is not the, the right time for you to decide who is going to protect you legally.
Speaker C:You know, with, with everything that's going through your mind at that time to really not that's best.
Speaker C:You know, when I, when I had my shooting, I was in court weekly probably for years at that time, I didn't really know who was going to be the best attorney for my case.
Speaker C:So I kind of let that left that to the experts.
Speaker C:And you know, if you do have someone who you have pre pick like happened in Wilson, they may be on vacation.
Speaker C:So, you know, they're not going to cut their vacation short to come back and, you know, work a case for you.
Speaker B:So that's kind of what makes you guys different from other types of coverage is, is that most of Them have a, a team of lawyers or by state, they have hired, already hired on their team for that.
Speaker B:So the lawyer may not be familiar with the county or far away.
Speaker B:So you guys are going into the specific area and vetting somebody who would be fit, better for the case than maybe somebody who would already be pre picked.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Well, and that's our, that's, that's what, that's why we feel is the best for that case.
Speaker C:You don't want to bring somebody in who doesn't know the landscape of that county, you know, or that district court.
Speaker B:Yeah, because if you're in that district court or in that county, you probably know the judges and you know who they're going to get and everything.
Speaker B:So you know how to work the case.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You have relationships with the district attorney's office, with the, you know, associates there, you know, with the public defender system, with the judges, everything.
Speaker C:And, you know, a lot of these, you know, a lot of these lists you look at, I mean, some of these lists that these other companies have or, you know, family law, you know, attorneys.
Speaker C:That's just kind of a list of attorneys.
Speaker C:Here's some attorneys to pick.
Speaker C:We want to really make it a concierge service to where if you're involved in a shooting, it's the worst thing, most traumatic thing you've probably ever been involved in.
Speaker C:We want to take care of you, we want to take care of your family, and we don't want you to have to worry about anything, you know, so we want to bring in the experts to be able to, to get the best people for that case.
Speaker B:Now, do you guys just provide attorney stuff or do you also provide counseling and things like that for.
Speaker C:Yeah, we provide counseling.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:So we provided investigators, you know, a lot of these cases.
Speaker C:An investigator, like I remember in the, in the Maddox case, the investigator, within the first few months was $45,000.
Speaker C:You know, expert witnesses.
Speaker C:A lot of times you're going to have three or four expert witnesses, and they may not even be called to trial, but you have to have them work the case.
Speaker C:You're going to have counseling.
Speaker C:What else is covered?
Speaker C:We cover cleanup, biohazard cleanup.
Speaker C:You shoot somebody in your house, you know, you don't want to be dealing with that.
Speaker C:Carpet removal, cleanup, everything.
Speaker C:So, yeah, we cover all of that.
Speaker A:So obviously we've spent a lot of time talking about the, the criminal side of that.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Do you all offer things if someone is sued criminally and civilly?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, we have civil protection as well.
Speaker C:We don't you don't normally see civil cases in with.
Speaker C:So you see them a lot with police because they're going after the city.
Speaker C:That's who they're really going.
Speaker C:Like in my case, he went after me punitively as well.
Speaker C:But they're going after the city because they got deep pockets.
Speaker C:So most people are judgment proof civilly.
Speaker C:You know, most people don't have a few million dollars laying around, you know, an account that they can just go get.
Speaker C:So I think we've only had one civil case and it was a civil case.
Speaker C:It was very small, you know, like a $10,000 what they were seeking or something.
Speaker C:And it wasn't on a shooting.
Speaker C:That's another thing we cover, you know, not self defense.
Speaker C:That is not gun related.
Speaker C:We cover as well.
Speaker A:So I know you've, you've talked about the fact that you are not an insurance.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And, and that's a big deal because we're seeing states pop up saying that they want, you know, mandatory insurance for, for gun owners, which is kind of insane if you, if you think about that, you know, what other right do you have to have an insurance policy in order to, you know, take part in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But that con.
Speaker A:That's a conscious effort to not be insurance.
Speaker A:Obviously you said that Washington wanted to claim that you are insurance.
Speaker A:What was the initial conversations to say?
Speaker A:You know, we're not going to go the insurance route.
Speaker A:We are going to choose to be an association.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're going to choose to be a different organization altogether.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker C:That was early on, very early on.
Speaker C:And we knew.
Speaker C:So Kyle, who's my brother, he's my stepbrother, I call him my brother.
Speaker C:We've been brothers for, since we're in like first grade.
Speaker C:So he is, he was a police officer and he's a trial attorney.
Speaker C:He defended doctors and hospitals and dental systems and these, you know, catastrophic cases.
Speaker C:And he knew right off that if an insurance.
Speaker C:So insurance companies typically bring in their, their own attorneys to protect the insurance company, not necessarily the policyholder.
Speaker C:And I don't know if you all dealt with insurance.
Speaker C:I have and it's a nightmare.
Speaker C:So we knew right off and you know, insurance cannot cover intentional acts.
Speaker C:No state can insurance cover intentional act.
Speaker C:Any attorney, we felt early on we felt any attorney could easily argue pulling a trigger is an intentional act.
Speaker C:So we wanted to stay away from that.
Speaker C:We wanted to make it a membership service that we provided that for.
Speaker C: Now in: Speaker C:So we're the only, that's another thing.
Speaker C:We're the only company in the industry that actually has our own captive insurance company.
Speaker C:So, you know, our members have member benefits which include attorneys, expert witnesses, investigators, counseling, you know, other forms of benefits.
Speaker C:And so we have our own captive insurance company that will cover the, the company itself once we pay those out, and we pay those out immediately in the case.
Speaker C:Well, in every case we've had, our members don't get bills, they don't get invoices from the attorneys, they don't get anything.
Speaker C:So we saw early on that that could be an issue.
Speaker C:And what, you know, we've seen over the last, you know, I think probably four or five years is this idea that, well, if somebody has an insurance policy for this and they're found guilty, that's not covered, they have to pay it back.
Speaker B:So,.
Speaker C:You know, we don't feel like that.
Speaker C:And because of our history of having being a member of the FOP and having that concierge service totally take care of you, that's what we wanted to be able to provide for our members.
Speaker B:We talked about the benefits of CCW Safe.
Speaker B:Is it just those things you mentioned?
Speaker B:Is there anything else that they get as a benefit of being a member?
Speaker C:Well, yeah, I mean, there's a huge benefit.
Speaker C:Even, even anybody visiting our site's site, if you're a non member, you can go to our site and you can get, you know, each week we do reports.
Speaker C:Sean Vincent and Don West.
Speaker C:So Don west is their national trial counsel.
Speaker C:Sean Vincent is a trial consultant.
Speaker C:He works on a lot of these cases.
Speaker C:In the past with Don, he worked on the Zimmerman case.
Speaker C:He's worked on a lot of our other cases.
Speaker C:They do these studies on these high profile cases and they're usually like four week studies.
Speaker C:So each week we'll have articles come out, we have videos come out on what to do, you know, if you're involved in something, how to handle it, why this person went to prison for the rest of their life and what not to do, to do that.
Speaker C:One of the best cases of that is the Ted Wafer case.
Speaker C:I don't know if you're familiar with the Ted Wafer case.
Speaker C:That was where the guy, the, he shot the girl on her, on her front, on his front porch through the door.
Speaker C:That was, and that's on our site.
Speaker C:And you can go through that and you can kind of see how to handle that.
Speaker C:A couple years later we actually had a member who sent us a letter and it was they lived, you know, pretty far out in the country.
Speaker C:And they were, they had a guy who was trying to get in their house and he was going all around their house, working doors, and the guy was looking at him through the door armed.
Speaker C:And he said, you know, he kept coming back to this Ted Wafer case.
Speaker C:Okay, I can't, you know, I've got to keep my cool because, you know, it's in the middle of the night, this guy's acting crazy high trying to get in your house, all the doors, and you're looking at him through the, through the windows.
Speaker C:And you know, he sent it in, sent us a long letter and just wanted to say, hey, you know, thank you for what you do.
Speaker C:I didn't have to shoot, but it took 20 minutes for law enforcement to respond.
Speaker C:And I had 20 minutes of this guy trying to get my house.
Speaker C:I mean, he's freaking out, but he remembered that case.
Speaker C:So, you know, benefits starting with just information on, you know, laws.
Speaker C:And you know, we typically, you know, leave the laws to like different sites where that have the different state laws.
Speaker C:What's the law?
Speaker C:If you're visiting, traveling, but we have videos, we have articles, information, and then it steps up.
Speaker C:Once you're a member, then you have, you know, coverage for any incident involving a self defense incident which incurs everything.
Speaker C:We talked about attorneys, experts, you know, investigators, hazmat cleanup, counseling, all that.
Speaker C:And that's, that's a huge part of it.
Speaker C:In the Stephen Maddox case, you know, if you're arrested on a shooting and charged with, he was charged with murder, Murder one.
Speaker C:If you're charged, that case is going to probably be a two year case.
Speaker C:In that case, he had an ankle bracelet the entire time.
Speaker C:He could go to home and work.
Speaker C:That was it.
Speaker C:I remember one day he had a, he had a aunt, I believe that that died out of state.
Speaker C:Out of state.
Speaker C:He wanted to go to the funeral, so we had to go to the judge, get permission for him to go to the funeral.
Speaker C:We drove to the funeral and the whole drive, every like 30 seconds, his ankle brace was vibrating, you know, and he was like, every 30 seconds I was reminded I may be going to prison for the rest of my life.
Speaker C:You have to keep like our members, we have to keep them healthy.
Speaker C:We had workout plans for him, we had diet plans for him.
Speaker C:We had constant contact with him, making sure to keep him moving forward.
Speaker C:And he was awesome.
Speaker C:He went in, he worked with the attorneys.
Speaker C:He was in, highlighting reports with the attorneys.
Speaker C:The attorneys were like, wow, we've never had A.
Speaker C:We've never had a.
Speaker C:A defendant like this.
Speaker C:And, you know, they.
Speaker C:They got real emotional after that case.
Speaker C:They were like, we'll never have a case like this again.
Speaker C:Like this.
Speaker C:You know, most of the time, defense attorneys are just trying to work out what the punishment is going to be.
Speaker C:You know, very rarely do they have a case like that where this guy's totally innocent and he's being ramroded.
Speaker C:And every day, you know, they're not giving up evidence and that you have to fight for everything.
Speaker C:And they're like, we're never going to have a case like this again.
Speaker C:So there's a lot of benefits that we get that go far beyond that.
Speaker C:You know, if you're involved in something, that's our job to keep our members healthy mentally, emotionally, and physically.
Speaker B:Yeah, I want to applaud you for that.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of companies may just see you as a number or throw you out there, but to say that you're going as far as to give them workout plans, daily check ins, making sure everything's good, that says a lot.
Speaker B:And that kind of sounds like, you know, from somebody who has experienced that, it sounds like you're bringing a lot of your experience into that to go, okay, this is what affected me.
Speaker B:Now I need to make sure that all my customers don't have to go through the same thing.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a traumatic event.
Speaker C:I mean, it's not, you know, taking a life is not natural.
Speaker C:And even as a cop, I mean, it affected me for years, you know, and I was okay with it.
Speaker C:You know, I remember one time my dad went with me to FedEx and we were going down to pick up a package or something, and we were going through, like, Southside loco land and all these areas.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, yeah, I got in a chase here one time and was telling him, oh, yeah, this house.
Speaker C:And then we came by.
Speaker C:I said, oh, I said, dad, this is right down here is where my shooting happened.
Speaker C:And my dad said, you know, do you ever think about those guys?
Speaker C:I was like, every day.
Speaker C:I said, I wouldn't do anything different.
Speaker C:You know, I would.
Speaker C:I did what I had to do.
Speaker C:But, you know, it's something that is a part of my story now.
Speaker C:And whether I like it or not, it's something that you have to deal with, and everybody deals with it differently.
Speaker C:And so that's.
Speaker C:That's a big part of it.
Speaker C:You have to keep the mental and, you know, the financial responsibility taken off somebody who is involved in a shooting.
Speaker C:Especially if They've taken a life, that's one thing.
Speaker C:But also giving them all the other support is another thing.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And it's huge.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:So you said, you mentioned that it's not just firearms.
Speaker B:You cover for self defense.
Speaker B:So what is all covered under that, that self defense?
Speaker B:Is it hands, knives, feed, car tire,.
Speaker C:Tool, I mean whatever you have.
Speaker B:There's a lot of companies that draw that line.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So if we've, we've seen, okay, this is a great example.
Speaker B:A few years ago we had massive rides and in the street and people blocking things, you know, and people pulling people out of cars.
Speaker B:So if I already have used my, my vehicle or somebody would have used their vehicle in self defense of their life, you know, they're covered.
Speaker C:Yeah, you're in a critical, yeah, you're in a, it has to be a self defense incident, you know, if you're defending yourself or, or someone else.
Speaker C:And I saw the same thing.
Speaker C:I saw that one and I forgot where it was.
Speaker C:I want to say he's in New York where they basically mobbed that car and chased him forever.
Speaker C:Pulled the family out.
Speaker C:I mean at that point you're in defense of your life and the life of your kids, your, your wife or whoever else.
Speaker C:So yeah, that's not, that's not for us to decide.
Speaker C:That's for the court to decide.
Speaker C:And that's what, that's the way we look at things.
Speaker C:You know, we're, we're, we're going to always err on the side of our members because that's, we're not, I'm not the judge, we're the company that defends you, takes it to court, the court decides what that's going to be.
Speaker A:So with CCW safe, what are outside of the, the products, what are kind of your core principles that kind of have guided you to this point and representing people in the way that you, you do, from the civil to the, the criminal and, and everything in between that you offer.
Speaker A:Like what are those core pieces that make you all different from others on the market?
Speaker C:Well, that's a great question because I think we're the only company in the space that actually has core values listed on our site.
Speaker C:And we did that very early on.
Speaker C:We went through a process with everybody in the company and we determined what our core values were.
Speaker C:And it's dedication, commitment, experience, leadership and caring.
Speaker C:And that is what drives us daily.
Speaker C:We have it, we just moved to a new office, but our old offices, we had it on the glass.
Speaker C:We had frosted like stripes with our Core values on there.
Speaker C:In the case of Steven Maddox, you'd have to go back and look on our.
Speaker C:On our YouTube, but you can look and see where, you know, after that case, we actually didn't want to put him on camera.
Speaker C:We didn't.
Speaker C:We wanted to basically protect him and not have him interviewed because he was getting calls all the time.
Speaker C:And we wanted.
Speaker C:Don.
Speaker C:We wanted our experts to be invert.
Speaker C:Interviewed and to kind of save him.
Speaker C:But he.
Speaker C:He was so like, you know, I got pictures of him the day they won, cutting his ankle bracelet off on the courts of this.
Speaker C:Of the courthouse steps of courthouse.
Speaker C:I mean, he.
Speaker C:The first thing he did, he went out and walked in the beat at the beach, walked in the ocean, because he hadn't been able to do that.
Speaker C:And so he wanted to.
Speaker C:He's like, dude, no, I want to tell everybody.
Speaker C:And we're like, whoa, wait, you know, you need to think about this.
Speaker C:And he made this is.
Speaker C:He goes, no, I want to do it.
Speaker C:We're like, okay, let's do it then.
Speaker C:So he.
Speaker C:He did interviews with news stories and stuff, and he actually called us and said, I want to.
Speaker C:I want to fly in, and I want to do videos on each one of your core values and where they came in the case.
Speaker C:And he did that, and he came and he said, this is where carrying came in.
Speaker C:And at this point, you know, at this point, three months in, this is where dedication came in.
Speaker C:And it was really cool to be able to have one of our members come and say.
Speaker C:And that was him coming to us.
Speaker C:That was not us saying, hey, we got an idea where, you know, we want to bring in so that, you know, those core values run our whole company and our whole existence and.
Speaker C:And our service to our.
Speaker C:To our members.
Speaker B:That's fantastic as a.
Speaker C:And it's not just, you know, even our affiliates, you know, we've.
Speaker C:We've worked with people.
Speaker C:Some of our affiliates, Julie Golub, Jamie Caldwell, I mean, some of our affiliates are.
Speaker C:Jeff Gonzalez comes up and does a lot of stuff for us.
Speaker C:You know, we have experts in virtually every realm.
Speaker C:I mean, from the top down, from this, me, the founder and CEO down.
Speaker C:You know, everybody has experience in, you know, legal law enforcement, use of force.
Speaker C:So that's very important to us, you know, to keep that consistent.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So, obviously, a lot has changed from when you were in law enforcement.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you're seeing more and more of that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Kind of happen.
Speaker A:As we've talked about the cases that you've defended, what would be Something you want listeners to take away from.
Speaker A:When it comes to having to act as your own first responder,.
Speaker C:I think the biggest thing is you need to be prepared.
Speaker C:You need to be prepared the best way you can.
Speaker C:And not saying, you know, having a team is one thing, but not even membership.
Speaker C:You need to know the laws, where you're at, where you travel, where you're going to.
Speaker C:You need to be prepared in that sense.
Speaker C:You need to be prepared of what's going to happen, how the criminal justice system works.
Speaker C:And you need to be prepared.
Speaker C:And that's one of the biggest things I think, that we give to everyone for free, not even our members.
Speaker C:Everyone out there is the information on these cases.
Speaker C:You can look and see all these cases in the past of what happened and what went wrong and when it went wrong, you know, because it comes down, if you're in a shooting, there's going to be, the minute that gun goes off, there's going to be every second ticking forward and backward is going to be investigated.
Speaker C:So, you know, seeing these cases and seeing what happened, where these people are now, they lost their freedom, you know, that's huge.
Speaker C:You have to know, you have to be prepared and you have to not only what's going to happen after, but you have to be prepared for building up to that, you know, de, escalating all that stuff.
Speaker A:So I think we can all agree at the table, right, that the culture is anti gun and becoming more anti gun.
Speaker A:And so we have to constantly fight in the defense of our rights.
Speaker A:We have to constantly be active and ensuring that, you know, Hollywood isn't the purveyor of gun culture.
Speaker A:And in a, in a world, in a society in which people honestly dislike the fact that your company has to exist, right, that someone using their firearm in self defense is, you know, treated as, as a criminal and they're not, you know, treated innocent until proven guilty in, in a kangaroo court kind of mentality where you're like, you know, has all hope been lost?
Speaker A:You've been able to show that it, that it hasn't.
Speaker A:So what would be your kind of encouraging word?
Speaker A:What would be the thing that you want people to hear from this podcast?
Speaker A:Because there's a lot of people that don't want to, to get any sort of coverage simply because they, they don't philosophically agree with it.
Speaker A:What do you say to those people?
Speaker C:Well, I think that's, that's something that we're seeing not only in gun culture.
Speaker C:I mean, look at our whole society right now.
Speaker C:And I think the, in terms of the politics, politics are always going to be there.
Speaker C:We need people like you guys to fight to make sure that, that these laws are representative of all the people.
Speaker C:But I think we also have to remember that there are a lot of people out there anti gun.
Speaker C:There's a lot of people that are pro gun.
Speaker C:And that's what I think you have to remember and you have to be.
Speaker C:Again, it goes back to being prepared, you know, being able to.
Speaker C:If you're gonna carry a firearm, you have to do everything within your power, both mentally, physically, everything to be prepared for that, if you have to use that.
Speaker C:And the way we've done it is we go back to.
Speaker C:We rely on our experts.
Speaker C:You know, we, we bring the best people in to be able to deal with that specific situation because they're all going to be different.
Speaker C:It's, it's.
Speaker C:It is very overwhelming sometimes with COVID with trans, with guns, with everything you see in society, everything is.
Speaker C:You feel like a lot of times you do feel like you're fighting a losing battle.
Speaker C:But I think the thing is you have to remember that and I, I have to do this all the time.
Speaker C:I have to remember to that, put that stuff away.
Speaker C:That's not going to affect me.
Speaker C:I'm going to concentrate on what, what I'm going to concentrate on.
Speaker C:I'm going to move, keep moving forward, stay as positive.
Speaker C:I can bring the best people in that I can just what, you know, GOA is doing in the political realm, you know, bringing the best people in and, and fighting for existence, you know, but I think there's, I think there are a lot of people out there that are, you know, have the same thoughts as this table.
Speaker C:It's just hard to see with all the noise.
Speaker C:And I think it's a lot of noise right now.
Speaker A:Well, I think the silent majority has, has a. Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, there's a reason why that that term exists and it's because for oftentimes, you know, we're not the, the loud ones in the room and you know, the, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, I, I go back to, you know, what you said at the beginning.
Speaker A:You felt confident because you had a, the, the police union essentially covering you, the Fraternal Order of Police.
Speaker A:You, you had that coverage because, you know, you were a part of that system.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:They're protecting their own rightfully in your case.
Speaker A:But it's incumbent upon us to find our group of people, whether it is an advocacy group that you are actively engaged in And a part of that is, you know, moving the ball forward in something or on the flip side, you know, finding someone to join hands with on, on the coverage side of things.
Speaker A:Because you as an individual are responsible for you unless you are in this group where you're able to shoulder that burden together.
Speaker A:And so it's important, I think that people realize that getting coverage, whether it's CCW safe or another organization, it isn't about, it isn't about.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm now causing an additional problem for us to fight.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:It is, hey, they already have this for their groups.
Speaker A:But I'm all by myself.
Speaker A:I like my odds better with a group.
Speaker A:I like my odds better knowing that I have someone that can help me.
Speaker A:And it isn't, you're not giving away your due process, you're not giving away your, your individual rights by joining a group like this.
Speaker A:It's in fact the exact opposite.
Speaker C:Yeah, you have to get involved, you have to get the commute in the community.
Speaker C:And we've always said, you know, as far as our competitors, I can, I think I can honestly say all of our competitors are going to do what they say they're going to do for you.
Speaker C:You need to, you know, you need to have coverage.
Speaker C:If it's not us, you know, find somebody that's, that's going to fit you.
Speaker C:I truly believe that they are going to do what they're, they say they're going to do.
Speaker C:But you have to have some kind of plan.
Speaker C:You have to have something ready because if you're, if you're going to carry, you're caring for a reason, you're caring for the protection that it gives you if you need to use it.
Speaker C:So you have to be prepared for that.
Speaker B:Well, I, Kelly brought up a good point with the kangaroo court and everything like that.
Speaker B:I mean the media is so quick to crucify before they get the full story.
Speaker B:I mean we saw this multiple times over the last couple years and they are, it always comes down to who gets their story out first, if it, or who, what camera angle they decide to choose.
Speaker B:And you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:We have to combat a system that's trying to fight against us the whole time.
Speaker B:And how we do that is we, we join together as a community and try to get people who are outside our own echo chamber to come in and start, you know, preaching the good word of the second Amendment.
Speaker A:Like you were saying, you know, law abiding citizens only make the news when it perceives to fit their, their narrative.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And the narrative is a powerful thing.
Speaker A:Thankfully, we do have a justice system in the United States that while may not be perfect 100% of the time, I would guarantee it's better than most, than most other countries.
Speaker A:And we do have a constitution and we do have these principles.
Speaker A:And it's incumbent upon us as the.
Speaker A:As people in the firearms community, people that may consider them part of that silent majority, to start changing the culture vocally and to start providing those education pieces.
Speaker A:Because if you look at the text, history and tradition of the Second Amendment, we win.
Speaker A:But what we don't want to happen is for us to concede ground because.
Speaker A:Because we were too afraid to be vocal.
Speaker A:We were too afraid to.
Speaker A:To be involved in a part or God forbid, we were too afraid of what could happen in court or what could happen if I carry that we never carry.
Speaker A:And then we lose our lives or we lose our family's lives because, you know, we were scared of that risk.
Speaker A:And so I think that, you know, carrying a firearm is a very personal decision.
Speaker A:And once you make up your mind that you have the ability to defend and protect yourself, that your life is.
Speaker A:That is valuable enough to protect yourself and your family, the next scenario is, okay, well, what do I do if this actually happens?
Speaker A:Because most people will play the worst case scenario, at least out in their mind one time, Right.
Speaker A:To assess.
Speaker A:Assess that potential risk.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a deterring factor.
Speaker C:You brought up a good point, too.
Speaker C:Bringing people outside that area or outside, you know, our community in.
Speaker C:And we, we looked at that early on, too.
Speaker C:It's like there are so many people who are on the fence, so many people out there who are on the fence that.
Speaker C: And we saw in: Speaker C:Now they may not know what they're doing.
Speaker C:Uh, they may have.
Speaker C:And a lot of them probably have given up on it because they don't know what to do.
Speaker C:Uh, and I think that's where education comes in.
Speaker C:You know, education is the biggest thing in everything.
Speaker C:You know, you look at, I mean, worldwide, whatever problem there is, education is the only thing that has, you know, positive stats on fixing something.
Speaker C:So I think, you know, that that's always been our biggest kind of thing, is to educate the people.
Speaker C:And we want to reach those people who are outside maybe sitting on the fence who, you know, that could maybe be put in a situation where, oh, well, yeah, I would protect my life if I had to, you know, but a lot of those people, and there's a lot of.
Speaker C:There's a Lot of people who are anti gun that would, that would carry to protect themselves.
Speaker C:You know, and we see it both sides, we see people who are pro gun that don't take that, that action to protect themselves to have, to have a firearm.
Speaker C:There's a lot of program people that will never have a gun in the house and a lot of people who are not so pro gun that would have a gun in the house to protect them.
Speaker C:So I think education on, you know, way to help these people understand, you know, the whole system beginning with, you know, the decision to make a firearm.
Speaker C:It is a very personal choice to the decision of, okay, I'm going to make that decision and now I'm going to take action in case I have to use it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, as a community we're very good at rallying around each other and I think we just need to take that same energy that we do to rally around and rally the troops up when there's, when the ATF attacks or when there's attacks.
Speaker B:We need to be able to use that same energy to go outside of our, our little bubble or echo chamber and, and bring more people in and rally.
Speaker B:And there's, there's some people in our community who really great at that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I think as a whole, as a community, we need to find a way to go, hey, there was 20 million new gun owners.
Speaker B:How do we reach them?
Speaker B:How do we get to them?
Speaker B:How do we, they've made that decision, how now?
Speaker B:How do they take the, the next step to, you know, join an organization like GOA or you know, get signed up with you guys to protect, you know, to protect themselves from legal liability and things like that.
Speaker B:Or legal, Legal liability is not the right word.
Speaker B:I want to use legal protection, legal protection, legal fiscal money thing.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Financial.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, financial obligations.
Speaker B:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker B:That's exactly.
Speaker B:But I think as a, as a community, we need to find a way to kind of branch out and find those people and say, hey, we, we're glad you've joined us.
Speaker B:Yeah, now that you've joined us, it's time to join us in the fight to restore our rights to where we need to be or, or to, you know, teach them how.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a lot of people who are new to getting and caring and a lot of people are teaching people.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't feel comfortable.
Speaker B:You know, for years I was teaching CCW classes.
Speaker B:There's a lot of people who never felt comfortable carrying with a round in the Chamber, right.
Speaker B:There's a lot of people who don't feel comfortable, you know, appendix carrying or some people are like, well the gun's not comfortable.
Speaker B:Does it feel right?
Speaker B:You know, there's a lot of things as a community that we can go in and go, hey, you know, these are the things that we can do.
Speaker B:Here's how I'm going to educate you.
Speaker B:This is why we do it.
Speaker C:That's interesting because I've so I, I lead photo tours on wildlife also several times a year.
Speaker C:And I met in that I meet a lot of people who are both anti gun, pro gun, but I've met a lot of people who.
Speaker C:Look, there's this one guy I met, Sid, and he became a citizen here.
Speaker C:He went to med school here, became a citizen.
Speaker C:He loves guns.
Speaker C:Like he, he's like.
Speaker C:And you see these people who fight to get here, to fight to get citizenship here in the US Ask them what they think of firearms, get them up there because they, they're the ones who will fight for it because they come from countries where, where, where you can't have them, you know, and that's one of the things through education, I think that would be interesting to look at and, and have people don't know people like our history, you know, people don't know our history and they don't really understand, you know, how we got here and where we came from and education on that is again, I think that's huge.
Speaker C: In: Speaker C:So your point of, you know, reaching those people and really bringing them into community and making them feel safe.
Speaker C:I remember when I, you know, when I, when I got higher up in, when I quit carrying all the time.
Speaker C:I mean, even going back to carrying all the time.
Speaker C:For me, who, you know, I was a gang unit officer, you know, my gun was out.
Speaker C:I was clearing leather 20 times a night.
Speaker C:It, it became a little uncomfortable.
Speaker C:I had to get back into the training, get back into the consistency to get to the point to where I was like, okay, you know, so I can see where somebody who hadn't ever been around a gun, they're going to be like, I don't even want to touch it, you know.
Speaker B:Well, it's funny you bring up, you know, you know, immigrants and people come to this country.
Speaker B:My grandparents are immigrants from Italy.
Speaker B:They were there during the war.
Speaker B:My grandfather finally opens up.
Speaker B:He's talking about you know how after the war there was just everywhere, there was just guns because they, they were left and explosives and munitions and things like that and how, you know, people were getting hurt afterwards and how he was very anti gun and then 10, five, once, once I got into it.
Speaker B:My uncles are really into guns, which is weird because, you know, they grew up hearing the stories from my grandparents about Mussolini and about how, how they took away everything and that made them want to get into guns.
Speaker B:And now my grandfather, who is like very scared of guns because of his childhood experience, he goes, hey, I think I want a gun.
Speaker B:Okay, let's go, let's start this.
Speaker B:Because he saw the same thing that you see where, you know, he, he saw.
Speaker B:And it was very.
Speaker B:It's a very powerful thing when you talk to somebody from that generation where he's like, I'm not liking what's going on.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:This is scaring me.
Speaker B:Somebody who lived through one of the most trying time in world history to, to come out and go, I'm scared.
Speaker B:This is scaring me.
Speaker B:I don't like this.
Speaker B:It says a lot, right?
Speaker C:It does.
Speaker B:And I don't know how you see that.
Speaker B:Again, a lot of the, like you said, the immigrants coming to this country.
Speaker B:There was a man I met many years ago who came over from Ukraine very into guns.
Speaker B:There's a lot of people who I've met who've come from, you know, I was working at a gun range in Columbus, and if anybody knows about Columbus, Ohio, you got Ohio State and you've got, you've got the, all the big medical centers that are there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And a lot of them are immigrants.
Speaker B:And they come over and they're like, yeah, I want to try this.
Speaker B:I want to shoot guns.
Speaker B:I want to learn about this.
Speaker B:And it's really telling how a lot of people who come from countries that are very anti guns now are very programmed because they've never had that freedom.
Speaker B:And now they have that freedom.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they want to exercise those freedoms.
Speaker C:Well, history repeats itself.
Speaker C:And if these people know their history of their country, you know, they're probably seeing that.
Speaker C:We brought a family out to, we have a range and outside of Oklahoma City, and we brought.
Speaker C:Kyle, took a family out that his kids play sports together, and they were very anti gun and took them out, you know, showed him firearms, introduced him to him, had him shoot by the end of like three hours.
Speaker C:The girl, the daughter, who was very, you know, anti gun, she wanted her own AR at that point.
Speaker C:So she was like, wow, this is awesome.
Speaker C:You know, people see how, how, you know, how to control it, understand that it's not something, it's a tool, it's not something that's going to go off on its own.
Speaker C:And their, you know, safety, yet gun safety, they understand that, learn that it's a huge deal.
Speaker C:I think, I think, you know, I think we're, I think 24 is going to be another crazy year and hopefully maybe the way I am hoping that it might be another opportunity to, you know, bring some of those people outside because I think we're going to, I think it's 24 or 25 are going to kind of crazy.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, the best thing that you can do to encourage someone to become a gun owner is to build an on ramp for them.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:And take them to the range, have a conversation about it, acknowledge what's going on, whether that's in your neighborhood or in your state, and acknowledge where they're at in that and, and start figuring out what.
Speaker A:Well, how do I reach them?
Speaker A:Is it a conversation?
Speaker A:Is it taking them to the range?
Speaker A:Is it, you know, accompanying them to the gun store so that they can ask you questions?
Speaker A:Because maybe they would be intimidated to ask the person behind the counter.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker A:It's, you know, referring them to, you know, someone on YouTube or rumble for them to, you know, that, that you think that they would really enjoy watching.
Speaker A:That would do some, some gun reviews or, or, or whatever that is.
Speaker A:You know, your friends better than anyone else is going to know your friends.
Speaker A:And so if they are anti gun or maybe they're just apathetic, you know, they're, they really aren't one way or, or another you can make that conscious decision to introduce them in a safe way to build that on ramp for them to be a part of the second amendment community and, and show them that the value that, that they have in their, their ability to protect themselves and their family.
Speaker B:Couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:And we saw that very recently or at the airing of this, not so recently with our women's event.
Speaker B:A lot we built an on ramp.
Speaker B:We had a lot of new female shooters who were at that event.
Speaker B:A lot of them.
Speaker B:All of them became GOA members while we were there.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker B:So it was what, 200 something women.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker B:It was fantastic.
Speaker B:And, and I want to thank you guys for attending that event.
Speaker B:We had.
Speaker B:Your team was out there talking to people.
Speaker B:They said they got some great signups from that.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:But it's good to, you know, like you said, Create the on ramp.
Speaker B:And we were able to do that through our women's event to get all these new.
Speaker B:A lot of them who we talked to were.
Speaker B:It was either their first time, or a friend brought them with them, or they heard about it through another person.
Speaker B:And many of them, even from some of the vendors on the range, were like.
Speaker B:They were very green and new to this.
Speaker B:So it was.
Speaker B:It was very.
Speaker B:It was a great experience, not only from.
Speaker B:From being on the range, but from the vendor side, they were very great experience.
Speaker B:And to see all these new people come, not only become GA members, but also start on that on ramp to becoming, you know, firearms advocates and into the firearms, it was very refreshing to see.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's cool to see people who are green, too, because you probably know this as a trainer.
Speaker C:You know, you get people who.
Speaker C:They don't have any bad habits yet.
Speaker C:So you get people who come in.
Speaker C:We had a little girl.
Speaker C:She graduated with my daughter this last year at OU.
Speaker C:She brought her out to the range.
Speaker C:She's like 90 pounds soaking wet, you know, and she did.
Speaker C:She didn't really want to have anything do with it, but we got her on the range.
Speaker C:Justin was working with her, and her first five shots on target, bam, bam, bam.
Speaker C:And she was like, you.
Speaker C:I mean, you could physically see the change, you know, and like, so people who are green, that.
Speaker C:That don't have any bad habits if they get a good trainer, you know, it's awesome to see that immediate change.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker C:I used to coach judo.
Speaker C:I had a judo school for years, and I coach little kids, and when you see a kid get confidence on the mat, immediately, it's like, that's cool.
Speaker C:And you see that, you know, with people who haven't been around shooting.
Speaker B:I love new shooters.
Speaker B:And I look, I love new shooters, and I like women who come into the class because they have no preconceived notions.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they are just fantastic to train with.
Speaker B:I love it because they.
Speaker B:They will listen to you.
Speaker B:They will talk to you.
Speaker B:They will ask questions.
Speaker B:And I. I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not saying that I hate the men, but it's like the ego.
Speaker B:I know better.
Speaker B:You know, one of my.
Speaker B:My favorite things to do is I do a lot of youth rifle training, and it was a lot of instructor training, and we would get these guys coming over from England and stuff to do summer camps, and they have this like, oh, guns are bad, and go, listen, you're coming over here to teach this, so we got to teach you.
Speaker B:Get you wrapped up in this.
Speaker B:By the third shot, they're like, this is the coolest thing ever.
Speaker B:How do we do more of this?
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, well, let's start off slow.
Speaker B:We'll do this.
Speaker B:I think after I used, I was a rifle instructor at a camp.
Speaker B:After camp was over, I took some of the, the guys that were from England out and I said, hey, you guys want to go to the range?
Speaker B:And they're like, yeah, yeah, we're, you know, we shot these 20.
Speaker B:They call them tutus.
Speaker B:They go, we shot these tutus.
Speaker B:And like, come on, let's go shoot some real stuff.
Speaker B:So I pulled out an AR and stuff.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, this is evil and bad.
Speaker B:I'm like, really?
Speaker B:Let's try this.
Speaker B:And they shoot in there like, this is the most fun I've ever had.
Speaker B:I'm like, yes.
Speaker B:There's like, is this like every day in America?
Speaker A:Depends on how much money you make.
Speaker A:Ammo can be expensive, but that's the thing.
Speaker B:They have this preconceived notion, like there's a gun behind every bladed grass in America.
Speaker B:Which is not untrue.
Speaker A:But also, I mean, we can always improve.
Speaker A:Yes, those numbers can always improve you.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's just cool to see especially like, like you said, with youth teaching them how to shoot that it's just fantastic watching them, Watching them go from like a group about the size of a paper plate down to the size of a dime in a matter of months and, and watching them light up and see how they can improve.
Speaker B:And sometimes they, they take a step back, but you're there encouraging them and getting them to go and go, hey, you know, my favorite thing to always do is I'd sit there and we.
Speaker B:They shoot and they'd have a bad target.
Speaker B:And I go, what'd you do wrong?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I lifted my head up after I fired every shot.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, you know better than that.
Speaker B:And what else did you do?
Speaker B:Well, I wasn't holding my breath.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, what else did you do?
Speaker B:Oh, I jerked the trigger.
Speaker B:Okay, so how do we fix these things?
Speaker B:Okay, well, I won't jerk the trigger.
Speaker B:I'll do this my breathing properly and I won't pop my head up.
Speaker B:I go, cool, now let's go do that.
Speaker B:And they'd be so excited.
Speaker B:They'd go, look, I did exactly what you said and it worked out and it worked.
Speaker B:It's just great to see the joy on their face afterwards.
Speaker B:Especially since they got a little Medal for getting their certificate.
Speaker B:They were like, look at me, I got this little medal.
Speaker C:Yes you did.
Speaker C:Guys, we definitely need more of that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I, I really feel like we've seen the attack on Hunter's education recently.
Speaker B:I really think we need to get back into the youth shooting sports.
Speaker B:I think there needs to be a big investment back into it.
Speaker B:We see a lot of camps and stuff going away from it for insurance reasons.
Speaker B:You know, their insurance won't cover or the parents are so anti gun that they don't want to send their kids there.
Speaker B:But to teach, to teach that in an environment like a summer camp or like a YMCA camp or something like that, you know, you're teaching it in a controlled environment now they have respect for it.
Speaker B:Now they're learning it.
Speaker B:And that's how we pass on this like what GOA stands for, the text, history and tradition.
Speaker B:We're passing on the, this tradition of, you know, marksmanship.
Speaker B:And we've.
Speaker B:I, I can't believe we got away from that.
Speaker B:And I want to, I feel like we need to get back into, you know, the marksmanship aspect of getting kids in.
Speaker B:We don't all need to be like super technical.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Things we just like, let's start very slowly and work our way up.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I tell a lot of parents, you know, personally, I mean your kids are living in a time where they have the highest probability to come across a gun.
Speaker C:They better know how to, they better know how to handle it or to recognize it.
Speaker C:You know, to know what to do with it.
Speaker C:And just putting blinders on is not the answer.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, I totally agree with you.
Speaker C:I think hunting, youth hunting programs are great.
Speaker C:You know, they need to have an introduction.
Speaker C:There needs to be more programs out there for introduction for kids.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And we used to do like daddy daughter shooting competitions deals where we'd, you know, have dinners and then do shooting.
Speaker C:And, and my daughters, they started shooting around 10 and they loved it.
Speaker C:They still love it.
Speaker C:They love going out to the range.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's something that we definitely got to get back to.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker C:It's gonna be hard but.
Speaker A:But it's worth it.
Speaker C:Oh for sure.
Speaker A:It is something that is, is very worth it.
Speaker A:Speaking of getting involved, this summer GOA is having our inaugural Gun Owners Advocacy and Leadership Summit which is goa's convention.
Speaker A:You guys have a booth?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:At the event.
Speaker A:It is free to all GOA members.
Speaker A:So if you're not a member, make sure that you click the link in the description and fix that immediately.
Speaker A:But it's Going to be a great, it's going to be a great time in Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker A:We're going to have an entire exhibition hall with top manufacturers and innovators in the firearms community.
Speaker A:We're going to have some amazing speakers and panels for people to learn all of the things that they, they need to know.
Speaker A:It's going to be an awesome time again, August 17th and 18th, Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker A:Claim your ticket online if you haven't and be sure to drop by their booth.
Speaker B:So are you, are you excited for it?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker C:Yeah, we're gonna have a good, good team out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, your guys booth is right there by the door as soon as you get in.
Speaker B:So, you know, I, I being that this is our inaugural, what made you guys decide to want to come to the event and kind of hang out with us?
Speaker C:Well, you know that we haven't done that many events in a while, and I think, I think what you guys are doing is great.
Speaker C:You've had tremendous growth and I think it's a, you know, we look at everything from our affiliates to everything we do is being mutual, beneficial for everybody involved.
Speaker C:And I'm just looking really, really looking forward to, you know, having that booth there and, you know, building on, you know, a relationship with you guys.
Speaker C:So I think everybody's excited about it and.
Speaker C:Yeah, we're looking forward to it.
Speaker C:Knoxville's beautiful.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:I'm super excited for the convention.
Speaker B:I'm super excited that we're right now in Tennessee.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we can talk about it while we're here.
Speaker B:Knoxville's a beautiful city.
Speaker B:You know, you, you being.
Speaker B:Are you an OU fan?
Speaker C:I am OU fan.
Speaker C:I play rugby at ou.
Speaker B:So you're gonna be right near ut, so.
Speaker C:It's easy in and out too.
Speaker C:Knoxville.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, it's a great.
Speaker C:This airport reminded me of Oklahoma City.
Speaker C:So, yeah, if you can make it come out, it's gonna be an awesome event.
Speaker B:I think so, too.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, if you have any questions about goals, go to goals.gun owners.org thank you for, for joining.
Speaker A:Where can everyone find you guys?
Speaker C:Thanks for having me.
Speaker C:Ccw.
Speaker C:Safe.
Speaker C:Go check it out.
Speaker C:And like I said, there's a lot of free information for people.
Speaker C:And like I said, just think about, you know, if you ever have to use your firearm, and we have a good industry.
Speaker C:So like I said before, you know, fit, see what's right for you that fit.
Speaker C:But you do need to be prepared in case you have to use it.
Speaker B:As ccw safe.com ccw safe.com yes.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Well on that note, thanks for watching today.
Speaker B:Make sure to like share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification on YouTube.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting apps.
Speaker B:Go check their website out, go to Goals Gun Owners.
Speaker B:Org and have a great rest of your day.
