Tyler Brûlé has built Monocle into one of the most distinctive media brands of the past two decades. At a time when others chased clicks and platforms, Monocle went the other way. It invested in print, opening cafés and shops, launching a radio station, and building a loyal global community. I sat down with Tyler at Monocle’s Paris café to talk about how he’s kept the brand consistent, why proximity to readers matters more than dashboards, and what lessons Monocle’s model holds for publishers trying to build durable, multifaceted brands.

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Welcome to the Rebooting Show.

I am Brian Morrissey.

A quick note that this podcast will be soon coming to you, twice a week.

I've been doing more conversations lately and it's something I wanna focus

on and I wanna share them with you.

So, I will now have a conversation in this feed every Tuesday and

Thursday, and if that is not enough.

You can also listen to people versus algorithms, which is a separate show

that I do with Troy Young and Alex Schleifer and the barely disguised

anonymous banker who probably needs to come outta the shadows very soon.

That one's a little broader.

It's about the impacts of tech and culture and media and how they're

intertwined, more than ever.

anyway, my hope that all these conversations.

Are, valuable as we all try to figure out the information space and how to

build sustainable businesses within it.

I always like to hear your feedback, so email me.

at brian@therebooting.com.

In today's episode, I have a conversation that I recorded a couple weeks ago in

Paris, with Monocle founder Tyler Brule.

We recorded it at Monocle's.

Shop and cafe, in Paris, and a lovely little studio they

have in the, in the back.

I chose a mere glass of water while Tyler sipped a white wine.

we did do the recording early in the evening.

it was a fitting venue because, you know, monocle is an iconoclastic media

brand, that really is defined by sitting out most of the digital media trends.

and in many ways, I think today it's emerged as a model

for a new crop of niche.

Media brands, at least.

I see a lot of similarities in them, and I think it comes back to

what we discuss about proximity.

I mean, rather than selling reach, monocle sells closeness to a defined

audience that's affluent and it's mobile, it's curious, it's Culturally literate.

it has a magazine, a site, digital radio, slash podcast operation, a

video shops and cafes, events and collaborations, and an agency business.

we get into how mono has evolved over the years, what makes the brand

distinct and why Tyler, wants to build a decidedly global brand.

I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

Tyler, thanks so much for having me in the cafe in your studio.

You're

welcome and, and, and welcome bienvenue.

thanks so much.

I wanted to, I wanted to do this podcast with you for a while actually,

but I wanted to, because Monocle keeps coming up, I think this period

of time in the media business when.

There's obviously a lot of existential angst about it.

Right.

And how and how and where does it come up?

No doubt.

Because I'm, I'm, I'm curious.

No, no, no.

I, no, so it came up, so I was at this niche media conference,

conference that went on in New York.

I didn't, you're like smirking a little bit.

There is niche media conferences that go on, which I was shocked at.

So that's why I went to it.

And it was down the street from me, which, which helped, But like a couple

of people like mentioned it, like ca, Caitlyn Thompson mentioned it from racket.

Do you know racket?

No.

It's like they're basically, of course, yeah, yeah.

Sort of the, the, the tennis, I mean Yeah, yeah.

The lifestyle.

Tennis around tennis.

Yes, of course.

You know, yes.

I was just at like a launch

party for, there's even magazine launch parties still happening, which

is Yes, there's smaller affairs.

but for, SS, which is a magazine, another lifestyle magazine devoted to F1.

And again, it's like the lifestyle around it.

And I'm pretty sure they're gonna do a monocle playbook.

Okay.

I'm talking with Ojas about it, the guy who founded it, but I'm pretty sure, and

I see this like across, and so I wanted to get to the original Monocle playbook.

I think you're coming on 20 years, or at least from the incubation of

Monocle.

Yeah.

It's almost, we're we're talking at a time when we.

Landed the first tranche of money, which was, which was 20 years ago.

So if we, if we go, yeah.

All the way back to 2005 was when we brought in our first investor,

it took a little bit longer because they, they set us the challenge

of no private equity, no VCs.

It had to be only other family offices that they would

entertain as potential partners.

But yeah, that's, it was 20, it's 20 years ago now.

Yeah.

And you started as a magazine, but what was, what was the concept when

you started and then we'll fast forward today to what it has become.

If I look back 22 years ago now, when there was, there were,

there were a few layouts, lying around and the, those boards, still exist.

I think we were looking at a number of things.

One was this.

Decoupling, of, of Europe, but I say sort of decoupling in a way.

This was the rise of, of, of low cost carriers.

There was this moment that you had, you know, moving into the start of

the two thousands where Europe just opened up so much more and there was

this real sense of sort of mobility in a different type of promise.

And I felt was that being reflected?

were the, the newspapers of the day capturing that.

and, and, and the magazines, as well.

That was one side of it.

And then I would, I would say that there was just this sense of like

being in airports and peering around polls or, or, or pillars in, in, in

bookshops and sort of just spying over people's shoulders when they were at

the newsstand, what were they buying?

And, and I, I would often notice that someone would be buying a

copy of Dear Spiegel and then.

German, gq, or they were buying Stern Magazine, and maybe they

were buying Architectural Digest.

And I was thinking, it's so funny how people are bolting

all of these things together.

They want, they wanted a little bit of news in current affairs.

They wanted a bit of entrepreneurship, and then they wanted some kind

of payback at the end of it.

And it's just, it's so, so interesting to talk about.

That's how people, you know, as recently as two decades ago, were getting on

planes buying three or four magazines.

And so there was a sense, could we bring all of those things together?

could we look at world affairs?

and, and of course, could we also then look at great architecture

and could we look at fashion, at, at the back of the magazine?

And that was, that was really the, the starting point.

And there didn't just, you know, of course there were plenty of, weekend papers.

That, that, of course, and, and, and are still around that are

doing that week in and week out.

But no one was doing that in, in the format of, of a magazine.

as, as we know it, there's, there were pockets of it, but no one was

doing what we're doing still today.

Yeah.

And that was heading into the financial crisis.

Great timing.

Also like.

Heading into like the decline of the magazine industry overall, right?

Absolutely.

I mean, it was impeccable timing and it is funny, we, we could, you could have

sort of perched a microphone on the table last night because of, I was with a former

colleague, well still, still a colleague, but a former colleague from a wallpaper

days, but we're, we're still together.

yeah, all, all of these, she, she started in 1997 and we're, we're.

We're still together as part of, she's not the CEO, of, of our agency business.

And we, we were talking about was that the golden era?

Are we still in a bit of a golden era?

Is it a silver age?

You know, where, where are we right now?

And I think that there's, there's still a moment and I think we're still doing

things in a certain way, which are hopefully a little bit golden, but.

Listen, you know, we were talking about Concord and we were talking

about all the great things that we used to do when we were running, when

we were running Wallpaper magazine, but, you know, go, let's go to 2007.

Yeah.

Not a fantastic time to, to launch, but there was, you know, we,

we, we captured a small window.

We had enough runway in 2007 when we launched to just make a name for ourself.

that a, that advertisers knew who we were.

Were we incredibly, essential?

No.

but there was an awareness.

I think we'd have had enough cut through with, with, of course our readers and

the retailers in between, et cetera.

So, but of course that everything, crumbled very shortly after.

Yeah.

And I think magazines obviously have not handled that transition well,

I mean, they tried to transition into digital business models.

They tried to become Buzzfeed, like really, if you will.

you guys sat that out.

Which turns out to be a really good decision.

Sometimes not doing, not following the crowd is the right decision.

Yeah.

I've always sort of maintained that, that various sort of trails, are, you know,

if you sort of look along alongside, there's a lot of, Corpses of, pioneers.

Right.

And, and, and I've always sort of felt that not always sure we venture

and, and, and, and also done things that others have not done for sure.

And, but I think there was a lot of things happening in that period.

2007, 2008, 2009. Of course you had the rise of, of.

Yeah, you know, we had the, you know, the tablet came along and, and not

long after, you know, podcasts joined.

So there's, there's a lot of things happening in, in that period.

and, and you're right, we, we chose to sort of sit on the sidelines

on some things and say, let's just stay focused on, on the mission.

and I think a curious thing happened though, as well, because.

I think we're here today still, because I go back to that window that we were

able to have a, a bit of a reputation.

One thing happened, of course, which was, yeah, if, if you were a luxury goods

company, if you were an airline, you know, it's very easy to just look at, okay, how

much you're spending with, you know, a major global financial daily, or how much

you might be spending with Conde Nast.

And, and what, what was interesting was.

Monocle is global.

We, we launched with a global footprint right away and I think, well not think,

I know what happened was if you were the CMO of a watch company, it was very easy

for you to go and cut some big numbers.

But you still needed to be present.

You still needed to be in Singapore airport in in a title.

You still needed to be in the us You still need to be in at, at

Barnes and Noble in Los Angeles.

Mm-hmm.

And it was quite interesting to say actually what we're

gonna hold on to Monica.

Monocle actually can deliver us the world.

We can still be out there, but we're not gonna have to, of course, you

know, reach as deep as if we were in the New York Times Magazine globally.

Yeah.

and, and that was, that worked in our favor.

So I'm not saying that, that we saw ad revenue, skyrocket, but we,

we managed to maintain a position in that period when, of course,

everything, you know, hurdled, south rather rapidly for many other titles.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of the magazine titles have been trying to find

their way really ever since.

And they sort of, I don't wanna say they gave up on print, but you

know, you've talked about it before.

I mean, those magazines became ever thinner.

and they sort of lost confidence, I feel like in print and.

I mean, I can understand from the CFO's position at the financial

crisis, what, why you lose.

You just see ad pages dwindling.

but then you're also, you're, you're neither one thing nor the others.

Right.

And we still have one pursuing a digital strategy.

No one knew where that was going to go, but then your core product, which was

still making money, maybe not what it was making three years earlier or five

years earlier, but it was still, you know, the cash cow of, of that part of

whatever media company it might've been.

and, and yeah.

So I think you're, you're sort of.

Yeah, looking at the sort of endless path of where digital digital was going to go.

and then, and then of course, you know, you had this downgrading

of not just, well, the, just the downgrade of the physical product.

That was the other interesting thing as well because if you look back at the,

that period of, you know, it'd be good to sort of like, you know, there's a few

magazines in the studio here, but if you could go back and look at magazines from

the two, you know, those 2007, 2008, it was also the rise of, of course, you

know, just digital photography as well.

Yeah,

and, and of course a lot of people wanted to sort of,

you know, race to that as well.

'cause how could they use that online, et cetera, various

efficiencies that would come with it.

And that was also a quality issue too.

Like no, no one really knew how to process it.

No one knew how to color correct it.

So I think we're, I always, I believe that we'll look back at that period of

time thinking God, like everyone had like just really, really bad, like.

Skin irritation, because there's all that sort of, everything

looks so splotchy then.

And I remember the, and I, and of course we would get proofs back.

It's like, what could we do to improve this?

And, and one of the things we said is like, we just have

to go back and shoot on film.

Yeah.

and, and we really said like, if these are gonna be big features, if something's

gonna go full, full bleed, whatever it is, we have to go back and shoot on film.

We can't be shooting digitally and.

We're not still in that world entirely, but we still, we still

shoot a lot of stories on film.

Yeah.

So let's talk about where, like, the magazine now is just one

part of like a larger brand.

And I think a lot of media, a lot of publishers now, you know, need

to think about themselves as brands.

And they went through a period where they were about acquiring traffic,

whether that was from Google or from Facebook or, or whatever.

And then monetizing it through programmatic usually.

and that's a volume game.

Right, and, and now.

A lot of them are trying to still operate the traffic game while rebuilding a brand.

Right.

And expressing that brand in many different ways.

I mean, we're in Paris in, a studio where you also do

podcasts and, and online radio.

Real broadcasting,

real, real broadcasting.

There's, there's someone back in London, and a cafe where I had a

lovely Americana this morning on my dad.

And you've got a Stone island.

Sort of collaboration going on here.

You do events, you've got an agency that's part of this.

Right?

what else am I missing?

You, do you do other retail?

We do, yeah.

We, we do, we do other retail.

And, of course there is, at e-commerce business, yeah, there's an e-commerce

business and there's conferences and yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's a lot.

Yeah.

And so tell me about how all of that sort of comes together and

then the role of the magazine as.

The sort of centerpiece of it, because to me, like, you know, the, the role of

the magazine is that it's craft and it's, it's, it, there is a scarcity to print.

And I think that there is a reaction, particularly as we go into this, this

AI era where it's just inevitable.

99% of.

Quote unquote, content is going to be synthetic very soon.

and, that's gonna lead to a counter reaction to Of course.

Absolutely.

And I guess maybe we don't have to go back to the playbook in the beginning.

'cause I'm not even sure if there was a playbook, but there was, there

was certainly a plan back in 2007.

You make it up,

you make it, you make it up in, of

course you make it up as you go along, it becomes a playbook.

But yeah.

You know, if I look back in 2007, what, what do we wanna do?

We wanna speak to that global audience we talked about, and, and that audience

could live, you know, they could live in Europe, they could live in in Asia, they

could live in, you know, in the Americas.

That was fine.

We were gonna be global.

we knew that we wanted to, if you sort of jump a little bit further,

one of the first things we did was we said, okay, this is gonna be an

audience, it's gonna be largely male.

They're going to want to travel well, with their titles, et cetera.

So right from the very beginning, we worked with Porter from Japan with,

with Yida, and we had three bags.

So from the very beginning, there was a retail offer, and

not long after there was, and it was very analog at the beginning.

Mm-hmm.

It was okay.

Yes, it was on a website, but of course your order was probably, someone

probably called you up after they received an email in the background.

but it looked like e-commerce.

and, but you know, not long after around the corner there was, a

small flower shop, went under.

and we thought it would be awful if, It turned into a kebab shop or something.

and so we went and talked to the landlord and took that space over and, and then

suddenly we had our, our, our own.

Our own retail footprint.

and we're still, you know, not far, well, we, we've moved on, we have a,

we have a bigger space now, and that was, that was the start of something.

and then, you know, not long after there was a cafe in Tokyo and it,

and it sort of just built from there.

So I think from the very outset, we wanted to have, we wanted to have this

proximity with our, with our reader.

we wanted to make sure that they could come in and buy back

issues and they could also.

Of course buy nice bags from Japan and maybe some other things and, and fines

that we had from around the world.

Other good print that we admired, because oftentimes we'd write about

magazines, but they'd be, they'd already then they'd be hard to get,

even on an international newsstand.

And that was sort of what was informing.

yeah, I think a lot of, a lot of what we were trying to do, and I think also being

very confident when it came to building audience and, and we wanted, we wanted,

well, and we want people to, to pay.

So we never got into that.

Strange subscription game of, of 12 issues for $12.

Yeah,

it was always, back then, was it 90 pounds to get, 10 issues.

But one thing we didn't do is we didn't discriminate based on where you lived.

So you could be working for an NGO in Afghanistan, and I think there

was, back then, I'm not sure if any subscribers we have in Afghanistan now,

but you know, there were eight, eight copies a month would go to Afghanistan.

Or they might go via PO Box in Geneva.

But.

We'd still charge you 90 pounds or a hundred dollars or whatever it was.

and, and if, and if, hey, and also if you lived around the corner in not far from

where we were, you know, fulfilling from in the uk, you'd still pay the same price.

Yeah.

You can always charge the Scandinavians more.

They pay more.

Well, you think so?

We, we have some, we have some work to do in that market and, and we still

have that, we still have that model.

I mean, it's, it's, it's amazing and maybe it's gonna come up for review

in a board meeting soon, but we still believe that you should not be punished

because you're enjoying your time in Paris and you want to flee New York.

Well pay the same price.

Yeah.

But tell me about proximity.

That's an interesting 'cause it's sort of the, the opposite of scale.

Like what does proximity mean to you when, when it comes to making media products?

Uh,

it, it means a variety of things, but I think one is just, is understanding

and being close to our, our reader, our listener, our, our customer, you know,

in these walls, you know, behind us.

And, and that proximity where.

Of course we're, we're listening to their needs and we're

listening to their story tips.

All, all of those things.

I mean, oftentimes I say that reminds me of growing up, in, outside of

Montreal where, you know, we used to have sort of the front window

of the, of the local newspaper.

And if, if you had a story tip or a dog was missing, you could just go

to go in and, and, and sort of drop it off or slip a slip a note under

the door, of, of the local newspaper.

And I think we sort of function in a similar way that people.

They drop off cvs.

they tell you about, their, you know, their cousin, in jakarta's new startup.

so, you know, in, in sort of real news gathering terms, it, it works that way.

I'm not saying that of course every, every story's gonna

land on, on page or, or on air.

Definitely not.

but then it's also, it's the conversations that we have with, with

customers that we know who they are.

And in this era of like.

Do we, do we still talk about big data or we moved on from that?

I don't know.

Anyway, we're

fully into ai.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we're into ai.

So, so, so whatever it may be, it is not like there's sort of a set

of cameras here which are analyzing sort of, you know, height and body

mass and ethnicity of our customers.

I'm sure that's, well on its way.

or if it's not fully installed with many, many others already, but we're having

real conversations and I would say.

Then, then suddenly, if one of my colleagues is, is in Geneva or they're

in New York talking to a brand, we can, we can really talk about the

submarine commander for the US Navy.

This is a real, a true story who is a super fan of Confect Magazine and is

a super fan of, of Monocle, and she takes these magazines with her when they

head out from Norfolk or wherever the submarines are, are based and is on patrol

with Monica and Con for three months.

With that.

Doesn't, that doesn't come from data.

Yeah.

And, and then you go and tell that story to a big watch company thinking, wow, they

wanna reach, they wanna reach that woman.

And so this is where I come back to proximity, even though our

submarine commander is very far, far away under the sea and with,

with in a non-com environment.

But that's the conversation that we have and that's why we,

we like having these outlets.

Yeah.

And so that, yeah.

So that's why I always think of, I think of proximity in terms of, of, of.

Relationship with, with the audience.

and, and still to be, listen, do we need this setup here?

Do we need this studio in Paris?

I think we do.

I use Riverside in my apartment.

There you go.

Right.

You could do it, but I'd like this.

I would prefer this to

be honest.

No, and I, but I think it's, it is, its important that, That we

have correspondence or producers or researchers in market who also have

a proximity to the story as well.

Yeah.

but talk, talk to me about the, the, the role the magazine

then plays in that, because.

Look, when, when you're selling, you know, proximity, you're gonna

be selling to like advertisers.

It's an advertising, model for the most part.

I mean, I'm sure subscriptions are part of it, but like this, this is advertising

as the majority of the revenue for sure.

Okay.

Absolutely.

And you are selling proximity to a certain a. Wealthy demographic, that travels a

lot, that is curious about the world that, has a particular taste, you know, knows

what the, the Venice BNL is and cares about it and, and, and various things.

And there's a set of advertisers that really want to, to reach them.

What does the proximity then mean to them?

Because I would guess that that's more than selling.

A pages

for sure.

and again, I, it's not that they want to know the submarine story,

but I think they, they, they want, they want to know, and this is,

and this is where I think the story starts to play out in a very new way.

They, they want to know that, that, that that person exists.

they, of course, they want the, the data as to what percentage are on the US

West coast versus what percentage, are in the Ian region, whatever it may be.

Of course, you know, we can, we can deliver that, but then I think

they, they, they want to to know.

Not just will they come to an event, but will they come to an

event and be engaged, consume, ask questions, will they come to an event?

and, and, you know, possibly inquire about, that wristwatch,

or will they inquire about that vehicle, or that resort or those

properties that might be for sale.

so yeah, and, and that, that's the, the, the curious part.

We have a. It's not, it's not a board meeting, but we're having

sort of a, a 40 2K session.

I call it, we're having a 40 2K session on, on Friday morning where we we're,

we're looking at this challenge of, of proximity, you know, and I don't

wanna say we've created a monster.

But we do see that we're a business which has become so event focused.

And when I say event focused, that's not, you know, for people who aren't

familiar with magazine, that's not, you know, three or four pages like it used

to be in a magazine saying, oh look, you know, we've, we've done an event with

this tequila company, you know, we've done an event, with this car brand.

It's, and you used to see these in the front, in front of magazine.

It, it's, it's, it's not that.

This is where brands are looking for, I mean, really.

Big, deep events.

and sometimes the,

can you give an example?

You gave me a couple of the other

Yeah, but I mean, it, it ex, you know, on one side it could be B two, it

could be totally B2B, where we're, we're working with brands and they've said,

can you put together a global briefing?

At what point is the world gonna fall off a cliff?

at what point are we going to see the economy go back into, you know,

the ascent at, at, how are we going to sort of figure out, to speak

to young consumers in Malaysia?

Where we will then put together and, and partly 'cause due to our radio skills,

we'll put together a program which, which feels like, you know, a a, a run of,

of, of a classic morning show in a way.

Bringing guests in and out, you know, doing a briefing.

And that's, and that's in a closed environment only for a

brand we might turn, it might turn into a podcast for them.

But that's really a live, a live event.

yeah.

And, and then of course, you know, then we're going

all the whole other direction.

We just had our, you know, we, we spoke just, recently off the back

of our Quality of Life conference, which was in Barcelona, and that's

where we, we do, we bring That's a

classic event.

Yeah, that's a classic event.

But, you know, but, but it's funny.

Someone said, oh, it's, it's amazing.

Like you're the only event where there's of that scale where

there's no lanyards, no one.

Oh good.

You're

against lanyards.

Me too.

No one has no something we have in common.

No one has a name tag.

No one.

and, and, you know, and, and it's, it's, it's an extraordinary group of people.

It's, it's, you know, I, I, I, it's, I don't wanna say it's incestuous, but

it's getting close to that because there is, it's of a certain level, there's

not a lot of turnover, in terms of, new delegates coming in, and people exiting.

it's, it's a real, and I hate to use the word club, but it is, yeah.

It's, it's a very clubby environment.

Do you

ever think about like, starting clubs?

I'm sure you have.

I

think, listen, I think we are a club already.

you know, I mean

like soho House type?

No.

It's no different business.

It's, yeah, it's a different business.

And I, but I think you, you are part, you are a member of a club.

If you're a subscriber, you're, you're, you are part of a,

a, you know, a community.

You're a constituent, of, you know, broadly, a or a, a broad

group of like-minded people.

and, and I think, and you see that there is this sort of real,

sort of sense of fraternity.

One thing we do have though, which is.

I guess maybe that is, it is more club.

We, we have something called the Patron Circle.

Yeah.

And that is, and that grew out of, this is, and it's interesting

where it goes back to the point, the role of the magazine.

Okay, if you have a core subscription, you get 10 magazines a year.

But of course you know that we do two companions a year.

We do seasonal newspapers.

There's the escapist, there's the entrepreneurs.

There's so much other print that comes out across here, not to

mention extra books, et cetera.

So we were just.

Monitoring.

The emails that were coming in from readers were not annoyed.

They were actually saying, look it, I like everything you do.

What's it gonna cost to just send me everything?

I thought, well, that's interesting.

So we just, we came up with a number and I think it's around 2000 US dollars,

and so for 2000 US, you get everything.

It's a sort of a, a very.

You know, it's a very elaborate all you can eat buffet, but you get all

of the print that we do, plus we do one dinner a year, where everyone

gathers, everyone who's a patron.

Yeah.

and so that, I would say it doesn't have a, it doesn't have a, there's not

a bricks and mortar component to it.

of course it happens in a nice place, but, you know, also we, we move it around.

and so I would say that, I guess that is, that is a club, But not in name.

so how do you avoid becoming a services business?

Or is it inevitably that you're, you're basically a services

business as a publisher these days?

It, it is one that keeps us on our toes every day.

I have to remind colleagues that.

We want, you know, we're there to help our, our reader and

you again, we can go outside.

Oh, I mean, I mean like providing services to, you know, basically

becoming an, an agency business with a media front end, you know?

Right.

Okay.

Well, I was gonna, but the, but the other side of it is though, people

just coming through the front door,

I guess you are a service, but you're serving coffee also.

Well, we're serving coffee, but also

the people also think because they're a subscriber, therefore

we're also concierge business.

Yeah.

Now we know many people have tried or are trying to monetize that.

and you know, there is a fine line between how many times can you.

Dispense to the same person, you know, more tips for Japan.

oh, what else was it in the pages?

You know, what ended up on the cutting floor was it's on the

cutting floor for a reason, because we didn't think it belonged.

But oh yeah.

Can, you know, can, can you give me another tip about, you know, where

I should go in fu quo, et cetera.

So there we have to be very careful and, and just remind ourselves we're,

we're in the business of, of still getting a magazine out and, and, and

getting, broadcasts on air and all of those things that we cannot be

a, a, at least, at least not yet.

'cause we haven't figured out a way to do it, that we can't, we can't be

a business, which is ding the bell.

and we're dispensing services.

But on onto the, to the other point, we're definitely in an era where I

would say the traditional agency that did the advertising campaign once

upon a time is certainly challenged.

And where media players like ourselves are scooping up a lot of.

Work.

Yeah.

Whether, whether, and that's whether it's because a company wants,

we have a standalone agency too.

We do.

So, and I, I, and it's, yeah, it's probably important to say we have a

holding company, a holding company in Switzerland, holds a hundred percent of

wing creative, which is our branding and design agency, which was born in 1998.

It was a spinoff from, from wallpaper.

And we bought that out from Time Warner when we decoupled all of that.

And then, The monocle business, we hold about, I dunno, 53%.

And then there's some other family offices who hold the balance of those

businesses, of that, of that business.

and we, of course, within Monocle there is a studio as well, which is developing

events, podcasts and radio series, doing, delivering films, making books as much

as of course inserts or a spread or a single inside the magazine as well.

Right.

Okay.

It's interesting 'cause like when you started this, you were, you were talking

about like in 2007, and it was different.

It was like Ryanair just started or whatever, and but also globalization was

like sort of at its, its peak, right?

We're sort of in a different time now, at least in the us.

Um, very much so.

how do you, I mean, I, I feel like your worldview as sort of

like, you, you wanna stay sort of consistent and is that like actually.

An advantage in some ways because you know, so much is moving into like populism

and an mercantilist like direction that I think of as like diametrically opposed

to like monocle, to like The Economist.

There's a few brands that I think of that are like, you know, completely, you know.

At one point they would've just been, well, of course

the consensus is, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

And now you've got backlash against the free movement of

people of goods, et cetera.

Yes.

And I would say that we've, we've stuck to our guns, you know, to

globalism, globalization, The, the global nomad, the global citizen, you

know, did, did they go outta fashion?

Are they outta fashion?

Yeah, certainly in some pockets of the world.

And then you can go to other corners of the world and

it's, it's all alive and well.

And people do want open borders and, or, or, or they want, or they want open

borders, of course, with some level of restriction and screening, et cetera.

and I, and I think that that is, you know, we've always, you know.

We just, we've always believed in, I guess, you know, I, you know, we're

driven by opportunity and, and I'm looking at a big map on the other

side of the studio and just thinking, you know, that that is, that's what,

what the world is, is there for, to, to go and have amazing experiences.

and, and you know, if that is to invest in a company or to go buy

property, or simply be inspired.

We want monocle to be the vehicle that can hopefully deliver you and, and may.

And maybe it doesn't mean you have to get on a train or a

plane, to crisscross the world.

You can also do it from your armchair as well.

And, and that's, I think, interesting when we sort of, if we talk a little

bit about what's happening, in your country, you know, the US remains.

Our single biggest market in the world as as, as a single nation.

Fine.

Within Europe we sell more magazines.

But if, you know, that's a collection of many nations, US is our biggest market.

It's a market that continues to grow and I think, may maybe, maybe our reader

who's living in, I dunno, in Phoenix.

They're not getting on, you know, a, a plane, to cross the Atlantic or the

Pacific every other week, but we are taking them somewhere and then maybe

they're going to listen to, a podcast, and then maybe they're purchasing a book.

but there is a level of connection and we come back to that, the proximity

word as yeah, as well, they feel closer to the rest of the world.

But you're, I I would think like, you're not very US-centric as a brand,

I think that's fair to say, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, listen, we, I

mean, I mean, for an English language, like global Sure.

Like, I mean, even like The Economist is very, is very British,

I feel like, at least in its tone and approach and, and whatnot.

But, you know, it is, it's very deeply embedded in, in America, don't.

You, you guys don't like focus as much on, on the United States.

It's easy to get s sucked into our psychodramas.

That's all I'm trying to say.

No, it, it is.

And

listen, we, and we don't maintain, and

we're a giant market too, so people, you know,

no, listen, but we, we had a, we shuttered our, our bureau in Los Angeles.

What is it now coming on three years?

Three years that, that we've been out of, out of la We've, we have

no permanent foothold actually in the us And that's, that's unique.

Yeah.

I mean, we always had either New York or, yeah, we always had either

New York, or, or Los Angeles.

We've been to LA twice.

You know, we, we even, we inherited from the wallpaper days, our, our

bureau on, on Broadway and Houston, so that, that always existed.

We're not there anymore.

People are still reading us.

of course, of course we're doing US stories, but you know, it's not dominant.

And I think there's, and that's 'cause also I don't think our US reader, uh,

we get for sure, we do get letters from people who say, oh, I would love the

magazine to be a bit more of a mirror.

Could I see myself more in the magazine?

In a US context?

You could, but that's not why we're there.

I think, you know, we, we are there to take you.

Somewhere else.

And of course whe when it's the right story.

And then, and I always think like a good US story though, is

one which is also gonna excite someone who is living in Argentina.

And we're, we're, you know, we're benchmarking, we're showing sort of a

great story about entrepreneurialism, but do we want to sort of wade into identity

politics and, and everything else?

It's covered.

It's covered.

It's covered well, it's,

it's, yeah, exactly.

You and I always say, listen, you know, if you want to, if you wanna go and do I say,

oh, why isn't there more tech coverage?

Plenty of places you can go for that.

Yeah.

But I guess so your, your advertiser base is there, I, I guess I, I just wonder,

I mean, obviously business interests do, do intrude, like, I mean, don't they

want you to be, have like more of a, a, of a cut through in, in the us I mean,

I guess first of all, I guess your, your advertiser base is mostly luxury brands.

a lot with travel bureaus, which I think is a smart,

yeah.

A lot.

Yeah.

I would say a lot.

I mean, I call 'em travel bureaus and, or, or government.

Yeah.

Mean you look at let's say like Morocco recently Yeah.

They're selling, yeah.

Maybe they're selling a bit of sunshine, but they're really

saying, actually you should go and move your auto parts plant Yeah.

To Northern Morocco.

So I, there's a lot of, I, yeah, let's call it inward investment,

advertising from, and certainly, Africa on the rise a lot from the

Middle East, a lot from Southeast Asia.

But I think those, those brands that are working with us, we're still

delivering the US to them, because it is our single biggest nation.

So they know that probably that person who is sitting in Michigan who has

been thinking about, okay, well.

We're, we are supplying, you know, people within the automotive

basin around the Great Lakes.

but maybe, maybe we, maybe we should jump on the plane to, to, to Casablanca at some

point and, and think about that and, and that is, I think the, that, that is what

our advertisers are, are looking for.

So, you know, we're still delivering the world's biggest economy to them.

But I thought where we're going with this, what's interesting is.

US is a big market for us.

We have very little US advertising.

There's very, yeah.

Delta's not advertising with us.

why do you think that is?

Delta's not advertising with us because I'm not convinced a lot of Monocle

readers are aspiring to fly on Delta.

Delta's the best American airline.

So they say, I know that it's not saying much, yeah,

I'll

defend Delta.

Okay, go, go, go for it.

Listen, I mean, just, just because they, they cover up their trolleys

and like put those sort of,

they make something, something, an effort.

It's like a

horse blanket over them.

But anyway, yeah, that, that is not a, that is not a base, For us.

And, and, and again, it come that, that is a numbers game is, you know, also is Delta

interested in, in advertising with us?

We, we just, we just don't deliver big enough numbers.

And is Delta really interested in flying international passengers?

No.

They can, they can run the world's biggest economy, the world's biggest market.

They, they don't, they don't have to concern themselves with people who

need to get from Spain to to Atlanta.

Yeah.

So when you look at the media world.

What is, what's your sort of assessment?

I know that's a very broad question, but obviously it's going through

a lot of changes right now.

A lot of identity crisis, crises going on, with people sort of

thinking about what their purpose is.

I don't know.

How do you evaluate it?

I, at this moment?

Should I, should we pick it apart by, I mean, on, on how many, how

many sectors are there right now?

I mean, we can look at the world of print.

It's amazing you went to this.

What did you call it?

It's a niche, your little niche print conference.

Yeah.

Case sensitive.

Yeah.

Is the name of it.

And you know, and there's a version of of that that

happens in Hamburg as well.

And listen, it is amazing how many.

Niche titles there are out there that find their audience and,

but yeah, I think a lot of them are a little bit like podcasts.

You know, they, they do one edition and they're gone.

but that's fine.

it's, you've

got a lot of little niche magazines out here.

Of course.

No, for sure.

Absolutely.

And, and no, I, I'm all for that.

So it's, but it's amazing.

So we thought that was all gonna be, you know, along the roadside, but new

titles continue to come out and, and I'm not saying they're all thriving, but,

there is still a dynamic print scene.

I think we have to That's and okay.

That, that's identifying sort of the, the people, people at

the case sensitive conference.

Then I think we look at, let's say, you know, more, more mass titles.

I think that's, that is a tricky territory, not just 'cause it's a

middle ground, but I, I always wonder like, how much longer are some of

these news weeklys going to be around?

I'm, I'm amazed that time is still with us.

we were talking before, went on on air about, you know, the, the, you know, how,

how does the Forbes brand, maintain itself in, in obscure corners of the world?

Somehow it sort of still, still powers ahead.

Yeah.

So that's, I think that that area is a little, they're different

businesses now.

Very different businesses and Yeah.

And, and you sort of, you know, and, and you wonder, I, I think I've

got a grip on the me on the, on the business model for some of them others.

It's a little, it's a little more, it's a little murky.

well, you know, Newsweek is, is they make a lot of

their money on like lists.

It's like the Newsweek best hospitals in southwest Missouri Exactly.

Kind of thing.

And every, you know, look at I, every, every brand reaches a different point

of, of their life and they sort of move on to a different economic purpose.

Yeah.

And if I sort of, and if I look at broadcast and, and more, let's say in the

news space, I'm wondering, okay, where do things go off the back of the pandemic?

I think we lost so much polish and, you know, and it's, I think, you know,

it's, it's lovely that we're sitting in, and this, you know, I, I, I would've

only done this interview with you if we could have done it face to face,

whether I would've been the states.

I'm just not big on doing, You know, interviews down the line.

I like to be sitting in the same space.

Yeah.

And, and it's something that we demand.

Of course we can't always do it, but we try to demand as much as possible that

people come into our studios and hopefully they get, they get to sit on a nice chair

made in Finland and they get to speak in nice microphones and they're under

nice lighting and it's, it's a, it's a nice, it's a nice experience for them.

and, and I think we've, that bit, we, we certainly lost that.

If we look at the world of broadcasting, everybody of course is just.

At the kitchen table, with their rubbish array of books or knickknacks

behind them and, and of course their laptop, sort of, you know, shooting

up, through their nostrils and, and suddenly just people lost authority.

I, I think all of these great voices, interesting faces who

used to come into the studio, and.

Had proper hair and makeup and were were sort of, of course shot by,

you know, five different cameras and, and the right angles there.

There was, those people had presence and then suddenly, whether it's

the correspondent, whether it's the, the guest they would book.

Yeah, just way too much information, too much demystification.

as well, I feel we've gone as far as we can with that and

that's, it is coming back.

I was actually talking to someone from the BBC the other day saying they're

really demanding, actually, no, actually we're not booking you down the line.

We're not doing laptop at home.

If you have a point to make, you need to come in a studio or you need

to go into one of our other studios and, and be properly lit. Yeah.

And that's not gonna happen all the time.

There's gonna be lazy bookers, who are just, or, or you're gonna be

so happy to get that person that, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll live

with them on their, on their phone.

but I, I think that there is maybe a bit of a correction going on there.

We have to get back to center when it comes to what we expect of.

Broadcasters, news broadcasters.

so I think there, yeah, we, we took it.

We, or, or, or, or those players I think maybe took it to the edge a

little bit and I, I feel there's a bit of a professionalism coming back.

Right.

Well, I mean that, that sort of plays into the magazine thing, right?

Because I mean, putting together a magazine is very different.

It's, it's, it's a craft, right?

And it's very different than digital.

Like digital is, you know, bits and like a substack is a

substack is a substack, right?

There's very little ways that you can, you know, put craft into a substack.

I mean, in some ways it's like, okay, it's, it's just the words.

All the words are gonna compete with each other.

Yeah.

and I think you see this with media struggling to, to.

Compete with quote unquote creators or influencers, whatever you wanna

call it, the, the decentralization that's happened to the media ecosystem.

And so I wonder where, where media brands then end up going.

Right?

And you know, they're not going to be, they're not gonna have that rough

authenticity I feel like, of like human beings that can like, get away with.

That's why they're like the comedian podcasters, et cetera.

but they'll pro it usually.

The best way is to sort of compete on your own terms, right?

Yeah.

I, and listen, I, I think that I, I'm hoping that maybe, and also

just, you know, hopefully technology as well allows, allows us, and

I'm, I'm thinking about just.

The straight jacket, you know, the, the sort of the, the small,

it's not even straight jacket.

It's, it's a horrible, stench.

You know, it's a horrible little cage that's, that just reeks.

And, and that is the platforms and, and the, sort of these, these sort

of these strict formats that we have to live, live within, you know?

So I think, you know, you talk about substack, just the world of, of

newsletters and I often say like, are, are there really only like

three services that we can buy?

So I'm hoping that.

Does, just does, does technology move into a place that we can really design

something which is uniquely ours?

And you can have a, call it a crafted, unique experience where yes, the words

are gonna be great, but actually it's gonna be visually amazing on my, yeah.

When I look at it vertically on, on my, on my device and, and yet when I look at

all the newsletters I get every morning.

There's the odd one that stands out because it's got, you know, it does

have a beautiful masthead, but then, you know, the more you scroll down, I mean,

there's only so much you can do with, with no matter how good the photo is.

And listen, and there are people who do, I think are doing quite a good job.

But then, yeah, I then I, I think they've got, you know, real

wizards on their photo desks.

And I, they're working with really good illustrators.

but that's few and far between.

But, and, but maybe, you know, maybe we're going to go into that

territory, a little bit more.

We're gonna see an improvement.

But right now there's just such a massive.

All those newsletters you get every morning from all of your

different outlets that you respect.

It's fatiguing, not just Yeah.

The volume of them.

But I think it, it's, it is the, the lack of design, which is fatiguing.

Yeah.

And that's kind of the proximity point, I think, in a, in a different way.

Like coming in here, like this cafe is very, it's very monocle.

Like I was joking with you, I think when I emailed about how it's, I, I

was gonna come here to, to write my own newsletter, but then there's a no laptop

sign, which I felt was very on brand.

Yeah.

It's, but beyond that, it really, it looks like a monocle.

it looks like a monocle cafe.

Right.

And that's, and, and I think it's because it is, it's harder.

I know.

It is.

It's, it's harder to do that in, in, in a digital environment than

in a physical environment, whether that's print or whether that's a

literal like coffee shop, cafe.

Yeah.

And yeah.

And that is the straight jacket of, of, of, yeah.

Of, of the, the, yeah.

The format.

I mean, we're just, we are victims of, of the format and, Yeah, we struggle

with it all, all, you know, all the time.

And, and yeah.

And listen, we know that also we're in a world of also templates and grids and,

and you, and you have to remind also your team to step out of it too sometimes.

Like get back to full bleed.

do we need a world of borders?

And because I think that is, we're just.

The sort of that dictatorial nature of the things that happen in, in, in digital,

you think, oh, there's actually, there's, there's no, there's no other way to do it.

Well, let's think about how we can challenge it.

And, and that's something that I, I think I press for it every day in this job.

Yeah.

One, one brand I'd want to ask you about is air mail.

I always thought of them as like a US founded like version of like monocle.

They seem to take a lot of, cues from, from Monocle, but they didn't, they

dispense with the magazine overall.

Did you chart them, track them at all?

Listen, of, of course, the, the owner, founder is,

you know, fellow Canadian, so

you guys all know each other, and, and he's, you know,

he's, Hale's, partly from Ottawa, as do I. So, of course, you

know, we, we keep an eye, on, on air mail and, and what Grayden gets up to.

I'm, I, listen, I'm surprised though that it has, it hasn't become.

A big juicy quarterly title on amazing paper stalk, or it hasn't

become a weekend newspaper.

And of course they, they, there's been.

I think very light, interpretations of it.

And of course they do things around, you know, maybe certain events,

but I'm surprised that Grayden hasn't really gone for it yet.

Or, or, you know, or, or has done something.

Well, they're

selling it.

So there's that.

Yeah.

And there's, there's that as well.

and I'm also sort of surprised when I hear the, the numbers, that have

been invested in something which is.

Hey, as it, it's, it's a newsletter.

you know, it's, it's just a newsletter stuck.

It stuck.

I can assure you that stuck.

The

overhead is not great.

So, no, I, as a newsletter,

no.

Yeah.

So, but anyway, my, I am, I think it's good that it's there.

I mean, of course, Grayden does, and his team, they, they, they do what they do

and, and it has a level of, of respect.

But I'm wondering, would it be on the block or not Actually, if it had a,

going back to just the world of print and what, what Graydon did very well.

If there wasn't.

A quarterly, I probably wouldn't be a monthly but quarterly biannual.

Yeah.

Amazing title, which everybody would pile into.

I think everyone would want to be part of it.

So I don't know why they have, they didn't go there.

Yeah.

But unless he's so, yeah.

Unless he's just so single minded that the, you know, we, we wanna be in a

newsletter space and we wanna arrive in your inbox every Saturday morning, and

we're there for the weekend for you.

But, I think we still see that weekends in many corners of the world.

It's a great environment for, for print.

Yeah.

and they do have retail.

They have, they've got a shop in the village.

You could take over the shop if they get rid of it.

I, I, I, I could do if, if we're, if we're ready to go back to New York,

that is, that, is that, and then we're, we're, you know, do we go to New York?

Do we go to Washington?

I should say that we are in the Americas.

Go to go to new, go to New York.

We do, we do have, we do have Toronto though.

So we do have, we have a shop in Toronto.

And that's interesting.

The amount of American.

You know, readers, customers, who, you know, who are, I don't think they're

coming just to see us, but I think they, they might plan a weekend in Toronto.

And part of it is that, you know, it's to, it's to go to our shop

on College Street because, oh, you're not Los Angeles anymore.

You're not in New York anymore.

But we, you know, we wanted to come buy one and see what you have, and we wanted

to see what you have in an environment which is not on a backlit screen.

Okay, so last thing is give me, give me two or three media brands anywhere

in the world that, You're really into,

we will start, from a proximity point of view, we, we'll start, far away.

Japan, I, I'm a huge admirer of, the work that magazine house does as a publisher.

Talk about sticking to their guns, that this is, this is the, what

are they, what are they publish?

So this is the company that brought.

brought the world.

Popeye magazine.

Oh, Popeye.

Yeah.

Brutus, Kaza.

Brutus,

they're all from the same company,

Ginza Magazine.

premium, I mean, so yeah, a world of, of fantastic titles and, and

global benchmarks for, for style and and great fashion, et cetera.

And, and I was sitting down and also

very Japanese though too.

So Japanese and, and, and I think this is, you know, we're having, we're

having immediate conversation here and I think what, so I, I sat down with him.

Recently, you know, and we know a thing or two.

Japan's very important to us.

We've spent a lot of time there.

we've been in the markets since the very beginning.

I mean, the Nick Gay, of course one of the bigger me media players,

has a stake in our business.

But, I was, I was, I was fascinated talking, talking to them, because they

were like, oh, Tyler sound like, you know, they were like, they, they tell us how

this, like, this newsletter thing works.

And I'm like, well, you know, it's got, it's got its moments.

It's, it's interesting.

Oh, you know, we, we love looking at, you know, at the monocle

minute every day and, and how does it come together and everything.

So it was just this exchange of ideas.

And then I, I said, well, so, you know, what, what do you, you know, what is your

plan in terms of, you know, subscriptions and, you know, and, and knowing that.

Most of their sales come from buying the magazine in Lawson

or seven 11 or Family Mart.

That is the distribution model and, and bookstores as well, I think to the

tune of like 98%, which surprised me, I didn't realize that there's, there's

no subscription business in Japan.

It doesn't, it just doesn't exist.

Everything

about the Japanese marketing, I know it also, but

in

a market where they have a tower record

there, where, where, where the, where also where the postal system is so

effective that you could probably drop it in the post in the morning, get it

in the second delivery in the afternoon.

So anyway, that, that was, I, I just think what they do is incredibly, they just

stick, they, they really stick to their guns and they produce beautiful magazines.

So, enormous amount of respect for them.

sitting here, in, in Paris, I really, I have a lot of time for the work

that, Two titles I really like.

you're talking, you know, we're talking about Hearst before we went on, on air.

the, the French Edition of, of, Harper's Bazaar, their interiors magazine.

Okay.

Beautiful.

I mean, just, it's, it's sumptuous, you know, we can look at a

copy when we leave the room.

Just a really beautiful, indulgent, fantastic, you know.

Also it's, you know, it's a spinoff.

It's a spinoff of the Harper's Bizarre brand.

There's no interiors edition, in, is it a license

or is it o operated by Hearst?

It is.

That's a very good question.

I think.

No, it must, it's a li over here.

I believe it is a licensee or it's a, or it's a jp.

Yeah.

I

think they got out of,

and then I, I touched on, you know, a Lamont, I think Emblem is a supplement.

Great.

It reminds me of what the New York Times magazine used to be, and

now they're really pushing into English and they've just brought

out their, they're now doing this.

Biannual, where they take emblem on as the weekly translate it and, and, and

it becomes this book, twice a year.

So I like them crossing the board into Germany.

I I really like Salon Magazine.

It's a, maybe it's a more elegant version of.

It's got shades of of Martha Stewart.

Nothing from a design point of view, but just that it is, it's

a bit home bakery at at times.

It really, but it captures the season.

It's one of those magazines that, you know, what does a good magazine do?

A good magazine is is one which.

You know, if you really love it, it goes to the bottom of the

pile because you wanna savor it.

You wanna have a moment for it.

So the, I always think the titles I really, really like.

I don't dive in right away.

I sort of wait three or four days.

You want them to age a little bit at home.

and then maybe third thing in, in the world of, of media that, I,

I have, I have a lot of, I have a lot of time for, and, and that is,

I, I don't want to have to sort of swerve all the way back to, to Japan.

but I just, I love the nature of the Japanese.

News Daily, that you still have the world's biggest editions there in print.

and

like 28 million people get them.

Yeah.

And yeah.

Are they, are, are they all read and then and and they don't seem to

have any d digital business model?

they're still deep pocketed companies as well.

Yeah.

Let's see how long this lasts.

So very

peculiar medium market.

Very, very peculiar,

very into physical media.

Yeah.

And

I

think also

people are collecting CDs.

Yeah,

they, they are.

And it's, you know, who and who would've.

Thought, I mean, who would've thought that, you know, that the financial

times we'd would've, you know, been snatched up by a Japanese media company.

Let's see how long that's gonna last as well.

I heard that's a bit of a rumor Yeah.

Out there.

But, anyway, but those are, you know, those are the things that I, I look

at and, and I like at the moment.

Okay.

Tyler, thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you.