Emmy Award-winning media brand advisor, content coach, and podcast host, Vinnie Potestivo chats about the dawn of reality TV, the advantage Jessica Simpson had in the 2000s, why helping the underdog is cool, the real people economy vs creator economy, how clarity beats speed, the three types of creatives, strategy vs tactics, supporting vs promoting, the relative simplicity of winning an Emmy, and how Beyonce is a small business owner.

Hi, how are you?

I'm good. Am I too early? Sorry.

So what about you in Brooklyn? I know you're

from there. So are you usually based out of there?

Yeah. I'm from originally from Staten Island.

So I didn't move too far. But yeah, I stayed in Brooklyn. I've

been working from home for about like, five, five years. Now.

Everyone's like, You're so lucky. And like, No, I had to

learn how to work with somebody else. In a space. It wasn't like

everything just continued as as norm but but virtual producing a

lot of like consulting with beauty brands and celebrities

that have sort of other types of apparel brands or beauty brands,

skincare brands, that was like my pandemic gig, turning like

Instagram studios into podcast studios. It's been fun, by the

way of helping brand owners that don't identify as being

creators, you know, they're they're chemists as dietitians

by trade. And now they get to be creators. And then I just give

them like powerful tools, like Instagram.

You know, there's this new thing out, it's

called Instagram. It's called the gram.

I geek out, get excited about this. It's

like the creative toys are so much better now than when I was

a kid. You know, I had to be an intern and get approved by UC

and network executive. And you know, no, no, people with an

iPhone are like fallen executive producers. Here I am like the

pied piper or whatever, Paul Revere. Instagram guides are

changing, Instagram guides are changing.

This is gonna be like pulling teeth. I can tell.

Okay, you obviously have a ton of recognition. I think I read

you have an Emmy or two or three. So that makes you seem

super cool. And like you have this super cool job. From your

perspective. What is cool about your job? I know what the world

thinks.

Yeah. Do you know how I described my job just

earlier to a family member, made me laugh. I said, I've been in

unpreferred media, my entire life. Ooh, you worked for MTV?

Ooh, Bravo. Really? You did that housewives thing that's like, I

got to work with awesome storytellers that had to go

through a television network to get their stories heard by

hundreds of millions of people globally worldwide. And MTV was

a brand that had that reach. So because of where I was at the

timing of when stories became an economy in and of themselves,

they became a commodity. I think inherently I think there's

something cool and helping the underdog. I think that's cool.

Everything I've done has always been helping someone who felt

under something, get over something. And usually it was a

creative way to do it. And I think what might be interpreted

cool about that are maybe the people that I got to help for

sure, because they changed culture. So for example, the

challenge on MTV, you know, when it came time to host the

challenge, I knew it had to be an athlete, and we had Johnny

Mosley and Dave Mirra gotta wrestle host and we met TJ

Lavin, TJ was an athlete, a BMX, or at a time where BMX as the

sport itself, was getting landed on the map. So he was one of the

front faces for that. And we had this really probably be very

politically incorrect and super inappropriate, not safe for work

conversation. Once that changed our career that changed, changed

our careers literally changed our careers, we're gonna save

lives, but it changed our careers. First, I felt heard and

seen as a gay guy by an athlete. And I felt that in a room where

I wasn't going to be, and I had an ally and someone who wasn't

even asking to be, he just showed up that way. And there

was a conversation we had that just made me I remember the

feeling of being so respected and so safe at a time where in

the media, well, I don't even have to get into the sexism in

the media we look at, you know, what it did to Britney and some

of the females but what drove Jessica Simpson to having a show

called newlyweds was literally her way of slowing the story

down and TV used to give artists three minutes to tell their

story and music videos. She asked for 30 No one was asking

for that. So when you ask for things, you get them. And then

also I learned from the audience's perspective, the

thing you know, that they support things they love, and

they support things they love to hate to.

Do you still keep in touch with Jessica?

I do. Yeah. And yeah, so empowered by her

story, and she's, he's done it again. And, and it amazes me by

the way, this is the best part is if you would have asked Mandy

Moore, Jessica Simpson, Christina Aguilera and Britney

Spears, if you were to ask the four of them who's going to be

the billionaire? I promise you, Jessica most, I don't want to

say probably, she would not have been top three back then. But

she, she had the gift of reality TV at a point in time where we

were, we didn't have until 2007 Social media, where we couldn't

understand feedback about things we were saying. And she was

lucky to get that in 2000, where she had some control and not all

but some control over what ultimately got on air.

So let me ask you this, one of the things that

is said about you is that you're the man behind reality TV.

That's not fair. I gotta give a big shout

out to Jonathan Marie Mary and Mary Ellis Burnham, who was his

partner in crime.

So I'm assuming then the inspiration for you

behind reality TV came from the Blair Witch Project.

By the way, that's hysterical you said that.

To be honest, my job at first was to hire hosts. So the first

big moment for me beyond discovering talent was talent.

We're not touchable or approachable at MTV until my

department got there. So first off, when MTV was created, the

power was in creating a platform that required a new form of

media. That's, that's cool that MTV empowered artists to be able

to create these three minute music videos, MTV supported, it

paid 1000s of dollars to the labels to help offset the cost

of that. And then I think 20 years later, that's when our

audience left to YouTube. That's when they found YouTube. By the

way, I have to point out shout out to the first VJ, Adam curry

at MTV who also created iPodder, which is the first podcast he

like invented Really Simple Syndication RSS and the this

idea of of podcasting.

What have you seen from a talent perspective,

talent 10 years ago that you went looking for versus talent

today?

Well, the economy's funny, 10 years ago,

we're talking about the real people economy, maybe we

certainly wouldn't have called it the Creator economy, then the

real people economy predated the expert economy predated the

entrepreneur economy, which has now turned into the influencer

economy. I think we're currently in the crater economy right now.

By the way, predicting the future. I think editors haven't

had their shine yet. And I don't know if you've read the Bible or

not the King James is a pretty famous name. And he's not even

in it just a really famous editor. So like the power of

editing, I'm telling you, it's out there the power of editing,

what changes 10 years ago, the responsibility of networks, how

about that, for starters, 10 years ago, there was lash back

to what certain networks were allowing to happen on their air,

and there is now a sense of, of needing more control. retention

becomes the biggest issue in television. So that changes

talent immediately, by the way, TV networks aren't trying to get

you to tune into their network for the first time. They're

trying to keep you on their network as long as possible. So

you're gonna see a lot more of like cross channel talent,

familiar faces throughout the entire network, what Disney did

with Marvel and how they built these separate audiences, right?

Because you want to feel identified and recognized in the

right audience. When When multiple audiences come

together, that's community, multi demographic retention,

talent becomes a game that even on the agency level, agents are

no longer looking for new talent to bring in new streams of ROI,

they've got existing talent, and they're leaning on that talent

to create additional streams of ROI.

Ok, so let's take this a little bit broader

here. Because one of the things I think I've heard you mentioned

a couple of times, I think, is really interesting. I'm running

a company, or you know, I run a team 20 years ago TV was it. I

mean, we had a few other platforms. But now we've got all

these different things. So speak to me about I have a brand now

there's so many things talk me through that.

Yeah, the answer is time. First and

foremost, that's where I go to a blank piece of paper. I'm

literally going to draw a timeline. I'm going to put

today's date I'm going to put the end of the year I'm going to

figure out what I'm capable of creating and doing and impacting

the next two to three months. And we're gonna look at that

schedule and multiply it by four. So I can figure out what

an annualized plan is. By the way, this is a weird way to

answer the question when I was trying to lose weight. I didn't

want to lose weight. I didn't want to be a pound less than

where I was yesterday. I wanted to be a pound less from where it

was last year. It was way more fun for me to compare myself to

last year and what it does is it gives me the time to refine and

slowly competently and more importantly sustainably get the

results that I ultimately want to get to so So you mentioned at

the top of this the my I have won Emmy It is my first Emmy. I

won my first Emmy last year from this guest bedroom that I'm

working in now but by the way madrone I spent 25 years of my

life crawling on people's kitchen counters hiding from the

you know, hiding from the camera, so you don't see me in

the shots. And I realized that the content I was working on the

position that I was playing in those in those in those

productions didn't qualify me. I went in any because I went out

and looked for an opportunity, I actually found an opportunity.

And then I thought to myself, well, I want to be mindful boy,

when we're winning with because I'm going to be grouped with

these people forever. And I also want to make sure it's the right

project, because people are going to say, what did you win

it for? I want it for it's called red flags. It's a it's a

documentary series about a woman who comes out of rehab. And if

the red flags that we might spot, you know, the 60 days that

she's coming out of it, the importance of credits, you know,

I mentioned earlier, how awesome how powerful it is that as a

podcast owner, not only can I can I get credit for being an

executive producer and get creative credit, but more

importantly, I can give it to the people who have touched my

project. And that's that's a data point that Google will not

know unless you tell it, you your podcast being on someone's

resume, maybe on LinkedIn, for example, let's say best case

scenario is not the same as IMDb owned by Amazon, telling Google

that this person worked on this episode, which also had this

guest connected to this award. And it's a gigantic form of

discoverability. So credits, those help you get discovered

those help sustain the message making impact and reaching the

people that you want. I again, I geek out about it, but that

that's what podcasting independent side of media does

for us. And that's why I'm fully leaned in. I've always worked

with small business owners is that weird to say? Beyonce owns

a small business, Destiny's Child.

A family business? I don't know if I'd

call that small.

Well, I mean, when you look at the executives

that are on her board, I would say is less than 25. You know,

as as big as the brand is at that level, it's a it's a really

tight inner circle. I think that's where we can all relate

to it's it's weird to say it that way.

One of the things you just said that was

really interesting, I think very counterintuitive. Most people

feel okay, I have a plan. And it needs to be long and drawn out

and systematic. And actually what I heard from you is the

exact opposite, talking about the word hate the second, you're

a podcaster you qualify you're in. So go, go do it all as fast

as possible. That's how you get out there.

You don't have to wait 25 years to qualify for

an Emmy Award. Like I'm telling you, all I did is apply. I saw

what qualify to win what I had, I had a goal I told a couple of

friends. But I make these decisions now based on the

future. My secrets of success has been not making decisions

based on now making decisions based on the outcome of now, I

don't care about this current, you know, choice if it doesn't

get me the outcome, the larger outcome that you've called me in

to make happen and making me realize that every room that I'm

in is important, and I hold on to my name. It's one hell of a

long name. It's not easy to say it's like Vinnie Potestivo!

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So one of the things you

said very, very early on was most of the folks that are

launching, they're not creators. By nature, they have a passion

for something and they figure out how to package it into

something that can be bought by somebody else that makes them

then a business owner, what mistakes do you see those folks

making? Because they're again, let's assume they're not

naturally marketers, or they don't know social media or what

what mistakes do you see them make?

Yeah, here's, here's two quick answers. One is

they do it by themselves. And we try to learn a lot by ourselves.

And I actually recommend not learning and pecking away and

slow learning and going and learning I really recommend

stop, learn completely in its entirety, and then implement, I

think that if it takes two weeks to get a website out of the

gate, because we're learning and updating, learning and updating

small little pieces that have been just shut down for four or

five solid days, and gotten clear on what our story and how

we want our story to be received, not just shared, not

just sold or told, but received. And shared. Clarity is one of

those things that I think is often overlooked in creativity.

There's a focus on how do I get something accomplished, as

opposed to who could I be working with? There's a great

book called who, not how and it's all about people in

networking, and making sure they're set up for success. And

in terms of picking those people, I think there are four

or three types of creatives. There's an analytical creator, a

strategic creator, and a technical creator. So you know,

you might find a better partnership, if you identify as

an analytical creator. If if performance marketing and Google

ads and Facebook ads and all that's important to you, you

might do really well with you partnering with a technical

someone who's who's more focused on SEO and automation and

integrations or even a strategic creator who's going to bring in

one relationships and focus on the person to person component

to it more so so. So just making sure that you're complementing

your creative skills. But whether you identify as an

analytical, technical or strategic creators sort of up to

you.

So you do this stuff all the time. And I

imagine you're usually sitting in my seat, probably a little

bit more than sitting in your seat. What is the one thing you

don't get asked that you wish you did?

Oh, that's interesting. I would want to

say, there's a lot of focus on what we're talking about now.

You know, it's all about getting in touch and handing off. I wish

people talked about sustainability a bit more, which

is that after they're done with this, what is the next thing

they should do? Not? How do they get in touch with you? Like, we

just started a conversation, we're responsible for what

happens next? So how do we get to help the people who are

hearing this podcast do it I feel like it's a people that

people responsibility. But for us, you know, for the people

listening to this, I appreciate people being sent my way. But

the real, the real, I hope the real honest answer is like,

hopefully, we would get to be part of the answer. I don't,

they're they follow you for a reason that they're learning

about me through you for a reason. And I think that

together, we can come up with better solutions, and I could

ever do it, you know, on my own. So I wish there was more

conversation about that about the sustainability about of

impact more so than let me help you grow your business? And how

do they buy your next product and that sort of transactional

element of it. Because it's not about strategy. It's about

tactics really, right. Like, I don't call myself a strategist,

because the last thing you need is more strategy from more

opinions and strategy. I don't care who I helped out, I don't

care what I went through in life. Sometimes strategies feel

deeply like opinions to me, and I'm, and sometimes I want to

remove my opinion from the conversation. And sometimes I

lean into my opinion, but tactics, that's something that I

feel confident in sharing 24/7 With, with anyone, as long as

you're using them for the betterment of the good, you

know, and I put, I put that energy out there as well, I

intentionally make sure people know that this, these tools need

to be used for positive impact, and that I won't stand to have

amused otherwise. That's why I've been sensitive about

working outside of the small gated talent community that I

got so lucky to get to work with because I truly got to work with

them and understand their intentions. And scaling. What I

do with people who I don't truly understand their intentions is

scary to me, because I've seen the impact of what media can do

to change the conversation to change the law, to give us

rights, you know, hopefully back to get more out of us, you know,

and I, I gotta say, I bring up Mandy Moore and Beyonce, and

they fight for our rights, like they show up in places that are

important for us. Matthew McConaughey, it's weird, because

I never got to work with Matthew, these talent have a

role, you know, and in an impact. So how we empower them

and who we select, to celebrate and turn into celebrities.

That's us as an audience that you can't blame MTV for a

certain type of show, or Bravo, for a certain type of show,

because I was at the network, I'll tell you what the network

says, but the audience watched it.

I think this is not something I've heard a lot

out there. And it echoes your idea of sustainability of

impact, which I think there's a lot of power in that. But it's

support versus promote. Yeah, and think about how organic that

is. Because if you really support something, it naturally

gets promoted. But people today we're so used to it so much

coming at us when I mean, don't you think we're so used to it's

almost at times we put up that guard like oh, don't come at me,

Don't come at me. But when it's Hey, this is just a cool thing,

come be a part of it, or come listen to it, or whatever. The

byproduct is the promotion, but the intention is the support.

And I think it makes for a much more organic response, which in

turn to your point, it's with the right intention.

Yeah, because there's cause there's there's

there's inspired action that's bringing them to you there's

momentum, bringing them to you, what's going to happen after

they find you is two things one they're going to share, maybe

verbally with their team. This is a real legit way to grow your

brand, without having to focus on the name, the artwork, all of

the creative ways that we understand branding impacts the

way that our message gets out there. But by focusing on the

actual message itself, and stripping away all of that

creative packaging, unwrapping the gift, and makes it easier to

share and makes it easier to discover. That's just one way

that that we can help ourselves be more discoverable. You don't

need to be more visible to be discovered 20 years ago, 10

years ago more was more was more was more even that term. No

press is bad press I can't disagree with don't tell me

there's no such thing as bad press. That's long, long as the

day when that was the truth. Now we have a choice and a decision

of how we get represented. We don't we don't we're not at the

whim of Five public companies that have access to the

airwaves, we the power of people can change that. And it stems

from what we create and what we consume. So you're watching

those weird shows and then complaining about it. Guilty

pleasure. Now I'm in defense of media.

That's awesome. Vinnie, you have been super

generous with your time, your willingness to share. Very

appreciative. Anything else?

Thanks. No, there's nothing I haven't shared

that I also haven't documented. So if I can bring that up, I

have a free creator hub. There's PDF versions and the HTML

version I asked for you to come and sign up for a free account

that VP e.tv over 100 awards worthy of winning 60 podcast

platforms I think every podcaster should be on and

20 2350 creator platforms that pay I have hundreds of tactics

and links to share the power of the Creator economy, how to

convert using influencer marketing, I have a free

masterclass up there. So please feel free to use these resources

to be successful early and consistently throughout your

career. And say hi to me on LinkedIn.

Thank you, really fun, so nice to meet you.

Yea, that was awesome. Thank you.