Are you surrounded by people but still feeling lonely or disconnected?

In this conversation, Kristin talks with Pastor Ian Simkins, author of Every Table Is an Altar, about why gathering around the table may be one of the simplest and most meaningful ways to rebuild connection, strengthen families, and live out our faith.

Ian shares how Jesus used ordinary meals to welcome people, restore dignity, and create a sense of belonging. You will hear why presence matters more than a perfect home or elaborate meal, how phones and constant distraction are weakening our relationships, and why repeated time together is what turns acquaintances into close friends.

Kristin and Ian also discuss the emotional and relational benefits of family meals, simple ways to protect undistracted time, and how to practice Christian hospitality without adding more pressure to your life.

You do not need a beautiful dining room, an impressive menu, or a perfectly planned gathering. You simply need a willingness to make room, pull up another chair, and welcome someone in.

If you have been craving deeper friendships, a stronger family connection, or a more tangible way to share God’s love, this episode will help you see your table and your everyday life differently.

Takeaways

• Why shared meals can ease loneliness and help people feel seen and known

• How Jesus used the table to welcome outsiders and build genuine community

• Why presence matters more than productivity, presentation, or a perfect meal

• How phones and digital distractions interfere with closeness and conversation

• Why consistent invitations often build stronger friendships than occasional large gatherings

• How regular family meals can support children’s emotional health, communication, and sense of belonging

• The difference between biblical hospitality and entertaining or impressing people

• Practical ways to create phone free meals and protect meaningful time together

• How to welcome neighbors, friends, and people who may otherwise feel forgotten

• Why every Christian can use ordinary meals to embody the love and grace of Jesus

Connect with Ian at https://iansimkins.com/ or check out his book Every Table is an Alter: Reclaiming Connection in a World of DIvision, Distraction and Loneliness

Other books I shared on today's episode

The Turquoise Table

Just Open the Door

Find Your People

Taste and See

Start with Rest Workbook- download here

Grab the Rewire Your Mind: From Negativity to Joy- download here.

Grab the Joy Rising- Daily Gratitude & Joy Journal here.

Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotional

Ready to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!

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Links to book include an affiliate link to Amazon. Podcast summary was assisted by AI.

Hey, friends, and welcome back to Faithfield Living.

This is your host, Kristin.

Today I have a powerful guest interview for you.

We are going to talk about the importance of the table and sharing meals or conversation with others and how that is one of the solutions to being more present and more fulfilled.

And also how it helps us feel less alone in the world to feel more connected with others and to actually show up the way Jesus did at the table.

We're welcome to Faith Filled Living, the podcast for women who want to find joy again, grow closer to God and rediscover the woman he created you to be.

I'm your host, Kristin Fritch.

Each week you'll find encouragement, honest conversations, biblical perspective, and practical tools to help you experience more joy, purpose and peace in everyday life.

Because the woman God created you to be is still there.

And it's never too late to come alive to the life he created you to live.

Hi.

Today on the podcast, I would love to welcome our guest, Pastor Ian Simpkins.

He is the pastor of a church right side, right outside of Nashville, Tennessee called the Bridge Church.

And he is just releasing his book called Every Table and Altar Reclaiming Connection in a World of Division, Distraction and Loneliness.

And I am so excited to have this conversation with him today for many reasons.

One is I've really just found hit some of his sermons I've listened to and when he shares, yeah, just ideas about the Bible and faith online, I really enjoy reading those.

It, you know, gets me thinking and makes me think of things in a bigger perspective, a more interesting perspective.

And then I've just finished his book and I've really enjoyed that and I think it's such a needed message and it's such a needed conversation we all need to have so that we can encourage each other to find our way back to the table into connection, which is how God designed us.

So, Ian, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I'm honored.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I think where I want to start is we live in a time that's changed very fast in 20 years, 25 years, you know, 15 years.

And as I was reflecting on what we were going to talk about today, this thought came up to me.

I haven't thought about this in a long time, but when I was in my first career job in my early 20s, we'll say we didn't really, you know, that would have been like 99ish.

Okay, so that was the time.

And all my co workers and I, we, I worked for a smaller company.

It was like the online division of the newspaper.

But we would all go to the cafeteria together and sit together at a table.

Yeah.

Or some days it was really nice.

A couple of us would go sit outside.

We would go outside the museum and they'd have a nice garden.

But we were always doing, you know, like a meal together.

Even people I didn't know, except for at work, some of them became my friends and I'm still friends with them.

But the reason I bring this up, fast forward to now, right.

2026, And I find that if I had started that first job, I don't think any of us would be doing that.

We'd be out on our phones.

Right?

We would.

And so I guess the first thing that comes to my thought is one of the reasons you wrote this book that you've shared is we are living in a epidemic of loneliness, of feeling isolated, of not feeling connected or knowing each other.

So what would you share with us about that?

Oh, man, I. I mean, that is not, I think, unique to my area, Middle Tennessee.

I think it's the kind of thing, as a pastor, when I sit with people just as a part of my job, I am amazed at how universal this ache is.

Like extroverts and introverts, older and younger people that seem on the surface, wildly popular.

I oftentimes they're in my office saying, I don't know that anybody truly knows me well at all.

I'm like, what an interesting thing that we're now more connected than ever before and yet arguably feeling more disconnected than ever before.

And I know that plenty of people way smarter than me have written about.

Jonathan Haidt's Anxious generation was really sobering for me as a parent.

There's a lot of books that have been written in the last 10 years about what technology is doing at a neurochemical level.

The.

The jury doesn't seem to be out anymore that some of our, like dopamine addiction to our devices is not leading to the life of flourishing that we're imagining.

Not even like.

Like my brother is a.

He's a chiropractor in Detroit and he said tech neck is going to send all of his kids through college because 80% of the people that are coming into his office, their heads are all.

He's like, it's literally such a problem.

It's like he's seeing it as a chiropractor is having these effects at a spinal level.

I think, boy, what an interesting problem to face right now as a culture.

And I think as the Internet becomes more artificial I think people are more and more going to crave what is human.

I, I really think we're like on the cusp of that.

I think people are gonna, like, all right, I can't trust anything I see on social media anymore.

Great.

I'm, I'm craving exactly what you're describing.

Just that, that, that face to face presence.

Yeah, I so agree with you that like you said, I mean, first of all, I think most of us, I mean, I have, I am fortunate.

I have many close friends, many close couples, lots of friends.

I mean, I have friends to do everything with.

You know what, in the afternoons, there's like a group of ladies in our neighborhood, like, who's free?

We go on a walk.

So.

Right.

It's literally like, you know, walking and therapy at the same time.

So.

So I'm fortunate because you're right.

I talk to a lot of people and they'll say, I don't, I don't have any friends, you know, or I don't really like.

Not people that are friend friends.

You know, I think in the book you might have mentioned, like, there's somebody that you could call in the middle of the night if you needed to.

Right.

Like, holy cow.

Not just to say hello to, but something deeper.

And I agree with you.

I think so many of us are longing for that.

And I put a lot of work and effort into that.

But a lot of people I think, think I'm going to pause this for now because I'm busy because I have kids and I'm doing all the kids stuff.

But I would say that one of the most important things we can do is to cultivate that community in those connections, you know, which obviously you talk about that in the book and then of course we'll get into how do we do that around the table, you know, but so I think that's the thing is, like, I think we have to be proactive and we can't wait for someone else to always initiate a friendship or initiate the invitation to the table.

And so what would you share with us about what is it about that are, you know, our meal time or coming together at the table.

Right.

Or sharing a coffee together.

How does this.

Well, first of all, how is it even in the Bible it shares with us?

It shows us, Right.

That this is the way God intended us to come together.

It's how early churches came together, at least in homes.

And so what would you just share with us about what have we, what have we started losing because we are not coming together so often at the table.

Yeah.

I would say first off, I totally understand why for some people, like, the loneliness piece doesn't feel urgent the way that like a broken leg would be.

But one of the pieces of data I found was making the case that loneliness is as detrimental to your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

Yeah.

Like, it's not just a, oh, I, I should make time for friends, because that's like a good thing.

Like, no, no, no, there.

It's having adverse effects to our physiology.

And I think that is, that to me was so compelling.

This isn't just a, oh, if you can make the time, this would probably be a good thing to get your head around.

It's like, no, no, this, this is actually affecting the way that we are developing.

And I also think for me, you know, I grew up in the church and I was homeschooled in the 80s, which Nate Borgazzi says is the most Christian decade to be homeschooled in was the 80s.

And I, part of our curriculum was reading the Bible cover to cover.

Like, I know, I know that I've, I've read front to back.

And I was amazed at how much of table ministry I had missed until just a couple years ago.

Like, even just reading the gospels and realizing how much time Jesus spends at a table and not just in like a cutesy, like, hospitality way.

Like, he's often saying some very difficult truths to religious leaders at tables and he's like upending social norms.

You know, in the first century, a table wasn't just like, oh, we should get a meal sometime.

It was like a statement about who belonged, like, who was in and who was not.

And so it was way more punk rock than I, than I realized how Jesus uses the table.

But I also realized one of the, one of the pieces of data that I use is that 60 years ago, the average dinner time was 90 minutes and today it's less than 12.

That, that alone, you don't have to be a Jesus person to recognize like, that's, that's a, a trend in a dangerous direction.

And I, I don't think this made the book, but there's a, a guy, a sociologist named Cody Della, I think was his name.

And he, he has this list of all of the factors that, that frequent family dinners serve as antidote towards.

And he talks about like, the number one factor for parents raising kids who are drug free, healthy, intelligent, kind, frequent family dinners.

It's, it's tied to vocabulary development, future academic success, safeguards against childhood obesity.

Like, it's, it's wild to me, the, like, very practical implications of even just prioritizing, like a.

A daily or weekly time around the table, even if done poorly, like, you don't have to have some robust curriculum and, you know, take a Greek word study, like, just even protecting the time has all of these implications for our families and our kids.

And I just think.

I think that's really interesting.

It is.

It's so good.

And, you know, I shared with you and I've obviously talked about in my podcast before.

So my sons are 19 to 24, and all of them were living at home until one of them just moved out and gotten his first, you know, like, career job.

And the thing is, is it's hard for me to get them together right at this age.

You know, they're busy working.

We all have different kind of schedules.

But.

But the two or three things I can still get them to do, go to Mexican, right?

Or pizza, have dinner here if we're going to do a game night.

And so it's like, it's.

Here's the first thing I'd say, especially to parents, but to anyone, it's never what I want or what I imagined or it never goes super well.

I mean, I'm going to just share an honest moment.

Before my son moved, I said to him, well, are you looking forward to anything when you move to Indiana?

And he goes, no, I'm not.

And I. I just started tearing up and I had to go outside.

Like, I started crying for like an hour.

And one of my sons came looking for me, and he's like, what is wrong?

Are you okay?

And I was like.

I felt like I was, like, letting, like, my kid was leaving 12 hours from us.

And like, he literally, like, he chose to move.

But you're like.

I felt like I was betraying him.

You know what I mean?

But my point is, meal time, table time does not always go perfect.

But when I came back, you know what my sons said to me?

They said.

I said, well, I left the table because I was upset.

Not at you.

I was upset because it just made me feel a certain way.

And they said, it would have been better if you stayed even upset, right?

Like, they.

They would have rather just seen that I was upset and explained it than, like, me, go away.

And then try to understand what that was about.

But I only say that to say the table isn't meant to be perfect or that it all comes together.

It's just meant to connect and it's meant to set him, even if it's only moments of those touch points, they matter.

And it we say, hey, I want to spend time with you.

And so one, I think you're so, so right that those things matter, especially for a family unit.

And then two, I, I think the data you have in the book, and I've heard some of this before as well, but how important the connection is in spending the time together and having friendships.

You know, you shared some of the, the data, but you're not wrong.

Like the loneliness and weak social connections.

Like you said, people do not live as long when they don't have that and they have worse health outcomes.

You know, and so one, it really is important.

And then two, you, you know, you point out in the book you give stats about how lonely, you know, the different generations are.

And even you said, and that's all gen.

I mean, all different age groups, but then even Gen Z said 80% of them feel lonely.

So I would just say that even if you think, oh, the kids in that age range, if they're your kids or their nieces and nephews, they might not seem like they want to be bothered with it, but invite them.

We have my, our whole family over regularly and same thing like the nieces, nephews want to come over, right?

Like, so just keep inviting, keep inviting.

Because you might not know it now, but it does matter.

It does have an impact.

100 And I think I, I didn't realize until I started writing this book how much I was shaped by watching my parents model this.

You know, I'm the oldest of seven, so there's nine of us in a pretty small house outside Detroit for most of my childhood.

And I cannot think of a time that Eric and Colette Simpkins, if we had a buddy that needed like a warm meal or even a place to stay for a couple days that they didn't say, yeah, tell them yes.

Like, it was, it was just.

And it was so rooted for them in their faith.

I was just like, so moved reflecting on some of those stories and not really realizing that was unique until I moved out.

I'm like, oh, man, my parents are actually like, really incredible people.

And they just modeled this this way for us, right?

That, you know, had implications that I didn't even really realize in real time until I became an adult.

Like, oh, man, this I'm this way because I watched them live this way.

And I thought, like, that's been so moving to me now becoming a father.

Like, boy, what are the things my kids are picking up on by how I do and don't use our Table or anyone.

It doesn't have to just be your table.

You know, I think there's all sorts of opportunities for us to make meaningful connection.

And how often do we waste the table?

Like, wow, let's just get through this coffee, let's get through this meal and.

Move on to the next thing.

You know, I just, I, I cringe thinking about how many tables I've wasted over the years, you know.

Yeah, yeah, so let's talk about that.

Okay, so, you know, obviously the, the first part of your title is every table and altar, you know, just shared about.

Sometimes we miss the opportunity to have, you know, to come together to break bread.

So what else would you just share with us about?

How can you encourage us to reflect on our own lives and are we inviting people over or in our front yard or out to coffee?

As we said, it does not to be in your home.

Although I would encourage people that you should open your home more, maybe because some are new.

But would you just share with us about that?

Like the biblical, you know, or the examples of Jesus doing just that.

I would say a couple of things.

One, I think we have conflated entertainment with hospitality, where.

And I think some people honestly have the gift of entertaining.

They, they have the, the 20 foot farm table and they can, you know, build a cornucopia from scratch and they know how to.

I, I want to honor that, but I know plenty of people like, well, I don't have that skill or that desire.

So therefore, I guess this isn't really for me.

I think biblical hospitality, even in the Greek of the word hospitality, is philo, Xenia, which is philo for love.

And Xenia, the, the stranger, the foreigner.

It is the love for the other, the person that maybe is not a part of our social circle or can't advance my career or, you know, like Jesus says all of these really interesting things about how the kingdom of God works and how we are to live in response to that.

And even like Levi, this tax collector follows Jesus and his first instinct is to throw a party, which I think is awesome.

I think, I think Christians should be known for throwing the best parties.

And I don't, I don't know that that's the case right now.

But then you have the religious leaders that are like really like concerned and upset, like asking the disciples, why does your rabbi eat with tax collectors and sinners?

Like, Jesus's table manners made religious people really uncomfortable.

And I was really convicted by that.

I was having the thought a couple weeks ago, when was the last time I made religious people uncomfortable by who I was sharing a meal with.

It's probably been a minute, to be honest.

I pastor a church, and if I'm not careful, 100% of my time could be spent having meals with people who look and talk and act and think and vote exactly like I do.

Yeah.

I just been really challenged in how.

How Jesus just seems to have a very.

A very different approach to how the table is used in his life.

Yeah.

And I think.

I think the whole idea is this doesn't have to be something like you said, that takes weeks of planning.

It literally can be like, hey, we're ordering pizza.

Come home for us.

You're free.

Yes.

And even my.

I live in a little court, so it's like five or six houses.

We have a cortex string, and we do get together.

You know, I remember one of our neighbors had moved in.

They're our newest neighbor around Covid, and we decided we were going to do like a movie night in the court in between all the houses.

And at that time, it wasn't a table, if you will, but it was a coming together.

And they were like, oh, my gosh.

And not everybody came out because it was Covid, Even though we were kind of, you know, you can spread out.

But that wasn't the point.

The point was, is our neighbors, even if it's not all the time, someone will be like, hey, let's do a cookout, you know, in.

In a month or this week.

And that's the point.

Not everybody is the one hosting, but.

But if they're free, they'll come.

Yeah.

And it's like that.

It doesn't potlucks, you know, And I've read in somebody's book, like, that's.

That's not a thing for every.

Any Everybody anymore.

We still do potlucks.

Like, I cook a lot, but people still, if they ask, I'll say, yeah, you can bring something, especially if it's a big group.

Other times I'm like, I'm good.

I don't need anything this time.

But if you want to bring something.

So my point is, is it doesn't have to cost a lot and it doesn't have to be fancy.

It can be in your front yard or backyard.

Right.

There's a great book called the Turquoise Table that's all about entertaining in your front yard.

You don't even have to bring people in if you don't want to.

So, yeah, I just think it's so important because I think we're the way that you build Friendships or you just build seeing other people.

Right.

And showing other people what it means to love other people is by spending time together.

And a great way to do that is at a table.

Because we can all feel like, hey, we're doing the same thing.

We're all eating.

We have that in common, you know?

Yeah.

Even if it's not a meal, Even if it's.

I think part of what I've been so convicted by is how often, even when we're out to coffee with somebody, how tempting it is to still be kind of texting under the table or responding to the Apple Watch.

Like, there's this brilliant MIT professor named Sherry Turkle, and she did this study a few years ago where she, she asserted that even the presence of a smartphone face down on the table, like, drastically reduces the vulnerability that both parties are willing to share.

So, like, we think we're being heroic by, like, I'm gonna put the phone face down.

You're like, she, her case is like, that's actually not doing quite what you think it's doing.

So we're like, we're there, but our mind's also a million miles somewhere else.

I was seeing that in my own parenting.

I had an evening where I was home and my 7 year old was saying something and I was kind of responding, but also kind of, you know, writing one final email.

And I didn't realize that while I was doing that, he, like, climbed up on the counter and like, grabbed my face and he was like, papa, you're not listening to me.

And that, man, I get choked up thinking about that.

I know that he's eventually, he's gonna get old enough where he's not gonna do that anymore.

And I was so grateful that he, like, snapped me out of it.

Like, you're.

You're not really here.

I'm like, boy, how often do I do that in my adult relationships where I'm like, I'm there, but I'm already jumped, you know, to the next meeting, the next appointment, the next whatever.

I just think the time is now for us to, like, make a, make a decision about the kinds of people that we're going to be for our neighbors and for our family and for the people that are far from God.

And I just, I don't know, I think that there's a real hunger for that right now.

I do too.

Well, and yeah, right.

I mean, that's part of what your book's about, is that we need to be present, fully present, not like you said in the wrong, most of Us, if you own a smartphone, have done that.

I'm.

I try to be more intentional about it.

I'm not saying I'm perfect at all.

My husband struggles with it more because he's like, oh, well, you know, he was away at the office all day, and he comes home and he's like, well, let me just, you know, hold on.

And I'll say to him, well, you haven't seen me all day.

And I'll.

And I try to tell him, just give me a caveat, like, can you give me 10 minutes?

Yes.

And then we can, you know, talk and whatever.

Or he might say, I need to decompress.

Okay, well, then just tell me that so that I have an expectation.

And then, yes, put your dang phone away.

Right?

Like, you know, and not saying I haven't done it before, too, but.

And my sons are bad about it, right?

I'll say, like, no, we're at the dinner table together, like, put your phone away.

And they don't want to a lot of times, you know, and I just.

I'm the mom, right?

So I take what I can get.

But of course, I try to put that role in place.

So to your point is we want to be fully present.

And you're right.

I think even it's probably that same lady that you were talking about, the professor.

I think it also said that if we.

If somebody.

If you're like you said.

I think she went on to say, if your phone's nearby, you never feel like the person has your.

Like you said, the vulnerability thing.

You don't want to be as vulnerable, but you also don't really believe that they're fully.

That's right.

Engaged with you.

Right.

It's like the score went down by a lot.

It's exactly right.

And that, honestly, that is why.

And this is not to pat myself on the back, it's actually more of an indictment of myself.

I.

More than even putting my phone away.

This seems like such a small thing, but I have created, like, a driveway liturgy for myself because we've.

We've all had the.

The moment where you're.

You're driving home, but you're also on a call, and that call doesn't go well.

And now you're.

And then you bring all of that stress and anger and anxiety into family time.

So I've created a short prayer for myself in the driveway.

I look like a crazy person, I'm sure.

And then I power my phone off entirely until my boys go to sleep.

And that's not that big Of a commitment.

It's not that big of a sacrifice.

But I found that even if I kept my phone in my pocket, I would have.

I would still, like, reach for it.

It was still a thing that I intuitively.

So then I just power.

And not only, like, does the powering it off help me, but my, My boys will ask, like, hey, Papa, can you, can you look up a picture of.

And then I get to say, no, I can't because my phone is off right now.

So they now know.

Oh, man, when dad is with us, I'm.

I'm having a chance to reinforce.

Like, actually can't look that up right now, buddy, because my phone is off.

Because right now my time and attention is focused on you.

And I don't want to, like, overstate that, but it has been, it's been so, so formative for me to be able to say that week in and week out.

It's like it's growing something me that I think is helpful.

And I want to, like, I want to model that for my kids.

And it's again, easier said than done.

But that little, that little choice has been really, really helpful.

Yeah, I mean, well, two things about that.

One, no, that's a great practice.

And you know, I know some people do set their phones down either for the a day during the week or certain hours, which is really important for us.

But.

But two things about that.

One, I regularly have to remove social media off my phone because I don't start out.

I rarely go on most social medias.

But like, I go on Instagram because I actually have content in there that I like, well, this is a good health information.

This is a good faith thing.

I like, yeah, it's still sucking my time and it's distracting me.

And so I'm like, you know what?

I'm not.

I'm not being as efficient with my time and finishing certain things as quick as I could be.

Or my thoughts are scattered because I, like you said, when it's in my reach, then it is, it is pulling my attention, you know?

So one, I've found that I just have to take things off of it or keep them off because if I want to go on those things, I just go on my computer.

But then I have to be sitting at my desk and it doesn't pull me in the same way.

It just for whatever reason.

So one, I think we have to audit our lives, audit what is working well, what's not, and where's the phone in that?

And how can we make the phone be a Tool.

And not a addiction or a distraction from what's more important.

Totally.

And then the other thing, gosh, you said, shoot.

Now I'm going to forget you're saying about your sons.

Oh, here's what it was.

So one of the other issues is they said, because we've all become a society that just can Google anything, right?

We've lost the sense of curiosity because it's like, you'll be, let's say you're talking the two of us, and you're like, oh, yeah, what was that?

You know, what does that mean?

Oh, let me just go look it up.

And we don't even grapple with it.

We don't go dig through books or say, you know, I know I saw that or I heard that somewhere.

We don't just try to like, think it through.

We'll just, oh, for instance, if I was baking something, I'll be like 80 ounces, is that 5 pounds?

You know, and.

Right.

I'm not saying I shouldn't look it up.

That's not the point.

But if we do it for everything, are we missing actually learning the thing versus do I even recall that data?

Because I don't.

Yes, I don't need to anymore, you know, so, yeah, I just think it's so important that we, we don't let.

Especially now with AI, like, don't let AI think for you, right?

Because one, AI is only fed certain information and it's going to give you back certain information, not the whole world of information.

And two, don't let it do all the work for you.

You know what I mean?

It's similar to searching Google, you know, don't look for all the answers elsewhere.

Well, don't you think some of that lack of curiosity for data is also translated to a lack of curiosity about people?

Like we.

It's so easy now, maybe easier than ever, to hyper categorize people as the sum of their political opinion, their religious affiliation, what I've seen they post online.

Like, we just flatten people to their digital footprint.

And we know intuitively, I think at some level that people are more complex than that.

But it's become so easy to just sort people into in and out categories.

And I have had so many profound experiences where somebody that I was confident I wasn't going to get along with, confident that we were going to be at each other's throats.

You like, you know, share a meal together, grab a cup of coffee and you're like, all right, we still disagree, but it's way harder to vilify you now because I.

You told me about your childhood and you told me about what your divorce did to you or when you lost your child or, you know, I mean, like, there's just a.

There's a.

There's a nuance there that I didn't have before.

And I think.

I think we're seeing it play out.

I think we.

We now know that outrage sells, that rage, bait sells.

It gets clicks and shares and that the algorithms are smarter than we realize and that these things are being stoked.

It's not accidental.

Who stands to benefit from us being enemies of everybody else?

It's not.

We don't benefit.

It.

We're.

We're.

We're now downstream from a system that benefits from us being suspicious of everybody and everything all the time.

And every time I, like, just go grab a burger, I'm like, okay, the world's not quite as crazy as I was led to believe when I was staring at my phone for five hours like, that can't.

I don't think that's good for our development.

Well, you know.

And I know you have an IHOP story in the book, but.

And actually, sorry.

The idea I had was Waffle House about.

I remember during COVID I was driving some.

Somewhere.

I don't know if it was with my husband or who I was with, but.

And I remember we were driving past one of the little Waffle Houses, and I could see people in there.

It was probably not the very beginning Covid, but still, that wasn't really the point.

There was still some stuff closed, but in our.

In my area, restaurants are allowed to be opened, but not like bars and things like that.

So we're driving by and I was saying to myself, like, if you want to know what's really.

People really think, like, go to a Waffle House, meaning they're not the people in the Waffle House.

And of course, I've eaten at a Waffle House, but I'm saying they weren't the people that were like, they were still showing up.

They weren't overly scared.

They're like, this is my life.

Like, I'm going to work and I want.

Want to go to Waffle House.

I was like, oh, there.

Don't go to some fancy restaurant.

Don't go to.

You know what I mean?

But it's like that.

Like, once again, it goes.

It goes back to the whole they were going to the table, even if they were sitting by themselves or with someone else or at the bar stools right at the top at the diner.

Yeah, but I think we just have to remember that, that like, if you went to a Waffle House, you'd probably get along with all the people, even if they were nothing like you.

Even if they had.

They were different walks of life.

And I think that's the point though is like you were saying online, we do.

We're fed information that we liked, you know, more of that, or if it can tell and it can, right.

Like what we are for or against.

And then it does this thing to us.

And like you said, people start thinking very black and white or very tribally.

Right.

And then they don't.

You can't have a conversation with somebody because to your point, maybe there's one thing I don't agree with with somebody, but I also, But I, I come out of love and respect and wanting to show them that.

But a lot of people are struggling to do that.

And you're right, a lot of it starts online.

You know, what we're being fed.

Of course.

Well, I think the, I think it was Adam Grant, he, He made a comment, I think it was in his book Think Again.

He says, I'll hear people say a lot about, you know, somebody else.

Oh, I can't imagine, I can't imagine how they came to that conclusion.

And he goes, that's not a badge of honor.

To not even be able to conceive how another person could come to a different conclusion than yours is not a sign of health.

And yet we be.

It's become so normal for us.

And I think you use the word tribal.

I think tribalism in a lot of ways is a, Is a parody of belonging.

I think we were made for biblical gospel belonging.

And tribalism is, is a, is a knockoff of that because tribalism, and I'm sympathetic to why it happens.

We, I think we are, we are storytelling creatures and we are always at some level scanning for safety.

Who am I safe with?

Who am I tribe?

But the tribalistic entrenchment makes an any of everybody.

So the people around me become enemies, defeated, rather than neighbors to love.

And I just think that is not a helpful direction for us.

Obviously, as followers of Jesus, there needs to be lines that we say, nope, I believe this is right and that is wrong, and I believe that this is righteous and this is foolish.

I'm not saying go and become a really cool hang.

Like Jesus also calls people to repentance and to leave their life of sin, like that is included in it.

But if we, if our starting point is man, how do I dunk on this person, how do.

How do I body slam their argument and show how much smarter I am?

Well, that.

That instinct is obviously going to lead to a very particular kind of behavior that I just don't know if it looks all that much like Jesus.

Yeah, I mean, somewhere in the book you talk about, you know, that basically one of the things that Jesus is kind of getting on, you know, some of the religious leaders is because they put so many rule after rule in place that people just can't actually.

They can't even get in God's presence because there's so many check things to check off.

And I think that's kind of a good point.

It's much like you said, if we.

If we're actually trying.

If we're actually showing up and being welcoming and loving to whomever they are and whatever they're going through, we show up different than if.

I don't think it was your book.

It was a different book I read recently.

But they were talking about, you're not going to change the person that shows up to your church dressed inappropriately by telling, like, by judging their outfit over time.

They're going to want to change because they feel welcomed in your space and they're.

They're going to want to feel good at church.

But that was who they were today.

It's not who they're becoming.

And I think judge people so much by their looks or whatever it is or what they're going through or what they've done instead of just being open, you know, open, armed in saying, you're welcome at the table, you're welcome at the church, you're welcome to my house no matter what.

Yes.

Yes.

You know, there's this Madeline Angle quote.

I just found it.

She said.

She said, we draw people to Christ not by loudly discrediting what they believe, by telling them how wrong they are and how right we are, but by showing them a light that is so lovely that they want with all their hearts to know the source of it.

And I think that is such a beautiful vision for evangelism through mission, like it is when Peter writes, always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have.

That implies that we should be living the kinds of lives that those who have no frame of reference for Jesus, for Scripture, for church, are saying, how in the world are you able to have the hope that you have when the whole world is crumbling?

How do you have joy amidst circumstances that are anything but joyful?

Like.

And I just don't know that Christians are necessarily known for these things right now.

And I just, I agree with you.

I think we have an opportunity to change some of that.

Yeah, yeah, I do too.

And I think.

Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes what we don't do is we don't reflect on our own behavior in our own heart, even when we know we should.

Meaning imagine you've gone to a party at some point and like you had the best time, even if you didn't really know the guests like you, maybe you came as a plus one or it was your friend's friend.

But like you felt it was like the best time, but it was the best time because the guest just was, you know, they were inviting and they were open and you didn't feel like, why are you here?

Or you know, they're like, oh, help yourself.

Oh, they were so gracious and grace filled.

Right.

Regardless of, you know, maybe you didn't even know their faith.

Yes, but, but like that's what we should be striving for.

And I know Jesus gives us lots of those examples, but to me it's like, are you going to be the host?

Are you going to be the person at church that acts like that or are you other way, you know?

Yep.

And I think what you're touching on is so important because when, when the Pharisees and I try really hard to not be one of those pastors that's like always dunking on the Pharisees because I think from being, if I'm being charitable, so much of what we now judge about the Pharisees behavior was rooted in a desire to be holy.

Like I really do think they had such a high bar for piety and consecration and holiness.

And I do think some of that can be really beautiful and good.

But often it was this hyper emphasis on oh, we don't want to be contaminated so therefore we can't be seen with quote, unquote, those people.

And Jesus was apparently doing it, he was at the table so often with quote, unquote, those people that he was accused of being a drunk.

And a glutton like that is quite an accusation right toward the Son of God.

You don't get called a drunken and glutton for, for once or twice going, you know, to that side of town.

He was doing it so frequently that those who are responsible for the, for the, the, in their minds, the piety of the community were like, well, that can't be the Messiah.

He's going to way too many parties.

And I'm like, what, what an interesting juxtaposition.

That must have been.

Yeah, Yeah, I agree with that.

And this is a little different because I'm not trying to relate to the comments about him.

Right.

Being a drunkard and whatnot.

But what I did think, and I'd written this down, one of the interesting things about your book that I really liked was that too many of us.

Well, I think it was when you were talking about the Parable of the Sun.

But too many of us forget that the other son, the son that stayed, he has.

He had a hardened heart and he was a bit.

Maybe not bitter, but something.

And you say some of us forget.

We get so caught up in our obligation in our faith, which I'm not saying.

Like we said, we do want to do the right things.

We do want to get in the word, all these things.

But.

But if we're missing the fruit of the spirit, if we're missing the joy, enjoying the feast, enjoying the celebration, we're missing out on something.

So would you tell us about that?

Oh, gosh.

I mean, I'm the older brother, for what it's worth, I.

When I think about my own life, and I mentioned, you know, I've.

I grew up in church, I studied ministry.

I. I often am the one who, you know, if I.

You look at the two brothers.

So one, one leaves in rebellion, but the other kind of leaves in resentment.

He, like, refuses to go in the party, his kind of arms crossed, like, how could you.

How could you be so extravagantly gracious?

And I there, I'm embarrassed to admit how many times in my life I have had that posture towards God.

Like, you.

You don't know how hard I've worked, how.

How many hard choices I've made over the course of my adulthood.

Like, it is.

It's really sobering to realize.

And I think that's one of the commentaries I was reading was talking about Jesus's accusation of being a drunken and glutton.

He said something like, his excess of food and wine is a glimpse of his excess of grace.

Like, we tend to think us, you know, religious people, like, we know who and where grace should be dispensed.

And the kingdom of God is just, like, so wildly more generous than we.

It's just this grace.

Grace is like, I've found that the less deserving of grace you are, the better place you are into receiving it.

The moment that we think that I'm deserving, God's lucky to have me on his team.

You know, I bring some really useful tools to the table.

It's like, no, no.

The less deserving we feel the less like.

We feel like we're owed it.

Like, that's actually the perfect place to receive it.

It's why I think that story is so compelling every time I teach it.

Because the rebellious son, the younger son, tries to launch into his whole speech, and the father, like, cuts him off.

He's like, no, no, no, we're not doing that.

Like, a rope sandals, a ring.

Let's throw a party.

That's how the kingdom of God is articulated in this story, man.

Yeah, the kingdom of God throws a party.

So why.

Why do we, in our, like, moral seriousness often lack so much of that.

That celebration?

I'm.

I'm pointing that right back at myself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know what I think is interesting?

That even now is kind of sticking with me about reading that chapter in your book about the prodigal son was, yes, we can be a part of both of those at different times in our lives, but it's actually that the father was the thing.

Like, it's actually the father's grace and how he was Christ.

Like that.

I think most of us are missing when we're reading about the prodigal son.

And when we hear about it over and over.

And it's.

Look at the father's demeanor.

Look at his grace, look at his spoken words is running.

You talk about how no one at that time at his.

His stature, not stature, but his status, would have ever run.

And he runs toward his son, who basically took half of his wealth, right?

Or his property.

I mean, he gave it to him, I should say.

But, like, you explained that that's not even done.

And then you explain why he does it, and it's so powerful.

Like, so the.

The KZ ceremony.

The jar.

The jar thing.

Yeah.

I didn't.

This is not a thing that I knew before I started writing it that there was supposedly, like, a ceremony that if a prodigal attempted to return home, they would meet him at the gate, the people of that village, and they'd smash a jar and say, in the same way that this jar has been broken, you have broken fellowship with us, and you are not welcome.

And I've heard a couple people make the case that that's part of why the father ran is like, I need to meet my son there before.

Before this hap.

Before this takes place, to make sure he knows how welcome he is.

And I'm like, man, what a picture of grace that is.

You know, when we are so convinced that, like, I'm gonna have to wallow and, you know, make My case before God, and God's the God who runs after us and undignifies himself.

I just think, I don't think I will ever grow tired of, like, remember, I think any picture of God that is anything less than a lovesick father running fervently towards a son return home is just woefully inadequate.

I just think that's a.

That's the thing that I'm preaching to myself too.

Yeah, but that's the whole point, I think, of your book.

Right.

I'm not.

The only point is, what if we all showed up a little more like that than how we might be currently showing up in the world, in our lives, in our homes and our communities.

Yes.

Right.

I think it would change some things.

We even have a value at the bridge.

One of our, you know, a lot of churches have, like, value statements and whatnot.

One of ours is we don't say, where have you been?

We say, welcome home.

And that's just like a part of our, Our, our language.

We want people to.

Because we have people all the time that show up and they'll say things like, hey, I know that I.

My language is rough around the edges.

Or, I haven't been to church in 20 years.

Or, hey, you know, I hope it's okay.

I had a cigarette in the parking lot.

Like, no, we don't say, where have you.

But we say, welcome home.

There's this.

There's a seat with your name on it.

And I think in a cosmic sense, you know, God invited us to his table, so who do I need to invite to mine?

I always want to keep that in mind.

Any generosity of spirit that we offer is because God first showed it to us.

And I, I think we get that order jacked up is when we start to feel entitled, you know?

Absolutely.

Okay, so let me ask you this.

As we start wrapping up, what.

How would you.

Or just what's coming to mind or under your heart about how you just want to encourage people after we've had this conversation today, like, what else do you want to share with them and encourage them?

Oh, man.

Gosh, I love that question.

I would just say, if you're in Christ, you already have what it takes.

Like, you are invited to participate.

This whole notion that life in the kingdom is reserved for a few select people who stand on stages with microphones, I'm just ready for that to go away entirely.

When I read Ephesians 4, God gave the church apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry.

That means you're included.

Like, God wants to use you in your tables, in your neighborhood, at your job.

Like, you are a scent person.

And it isn't just reserved for the quote unquote, professional Christians to handle all of the heavy lifting.

And I'm just like, so compelled by that picture that all of us are invited to bring a little bit of heaven to earth, wherever he has us, whatever spaces we occupy, whatever relationships we have.

And man, if people get that in any way, shape or form from reading this book, like, oh, I'm included.

Like, I also get to participate.

I just.

That would make me so happy.

I love it.

Yeah.

I mean, I've talked about this on the podcast before.

Like, our life is the ministry.

That's it, right?

Every single day, it's the ministry.

I mean, whatever you're doing in it, you are hopefully pointing people to Christ, but through you.

And it doesn't mean because you're going, having to evangelize or, you know, be.

Be that way.

It's just because you are the light pointing people back to him.

Right.

Because by the way you live, by the way you show up in the grace that you have.

So I love that.

So last question.

What would you just say is fueling you right now?

It can be something fun, it can be something faith oriented.

Whatever you want.

Oh, man, you mentioned it at the beginning.

I think the age of my kids, like, getting to do life with my wife and these kiddos, they teach me, oh, you're gonna get me emotional.

They teach me more about the kindness of God than, Than anything.

Like, even.

Yeah, it's a little cliche, but even that scene when, you know, the children are coming to Jesus and the disciples are trying to kind of shoo him away, and Jesus is like, no, no, no, no.

Like, not only let him in here, but he says something really startling.

He goes, yeah, these kids, these kids are closer to understanding it than you are.

Like, they, There's a.

There's a, there's a.

A kingdom awareness that kids, I think have.

They're just like, so, like, wonder and awe come so much more naturally for them.

They, like, force me to slow down when I want to, like, move and shake and jump from one thing to the next.

And like, we gotta go, we gotta go.

My kids looking at like a.

A line of ants walking across our deck.

And I'm so grateful for those opportunities to slow down and not miss the thing that's most important.

And they just, I don't know, they give me glimpses of the kingdom in ways that I. I don't think I ever could have anticipated.

So true.

Yeah.

They're so curious.

Yeah.

And I think also, I forget what that's called.

The.

The space, but the, like, the liminal space.

But I think kids, they can be imaginative and in reality at the same time.

Well, I think it's much like heaven and earth.

They're closer to both because they don't have to have a con.

They don't have a construct yet.

Yet.

Of one or the other.

Life is just life.

You know, Life.

All right.

And so can you share with everybody how they can find out more about your book and your church that you pastor at and all of that good stuff?

Sure, yeah.

Thank you for asking that.

They can go to Ian simpkins.com everytable and altar.com.

The church's website is Bridge TV.

And then I'm on Instagram just at.

Just at Ian Simpkins.

And everyone always puts a P in my last name.

There is no P, just a spoiler alert.

That's right.

It's true.

Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, you know, about your book and just about your heart for, you know, having all of us just participate.

Right.

In making the table a sacred place and connecting with each other, not being as distracted in the world.

So thanks for the work you're doing and for sharing this message with everybody.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

This was a blast.

Thanks.

I appreciate it.

Oh, my gosh, what a great conversation I had today with Ian.

I hope that there were some takeaways from you, some aha moments or something that pulled on your heart that will help you be more present and invite other people in and invite them around the table.

But before we wrap up today's episode, I want to share some additional thoughts with you from the book and then also share some quotes from other books that are connected to these same ideas that I think are powerful.

Okay, I first want to share with you what Ian says in the book.

He says, when we lose the table, we lose something God designed to be central to human flourishing.

Oh, I think that's so true.

And he goes on to say, we are the most entertained, overstimulated, hyper connected, and profoundly lonely generation in human history.

We've traded presents for productivity, community for content, and face to face friendships for the algorithm's recommendations.

And somewhere along the way, we've lost table spaces at home, at church, at work, and everywhere else.

He later says, let your tables be places where presence is practiced, not merely productivity.

The gift isn't the meal itself, but the time spent together.

And he shares a quote by Leonard Sweet that says, if we were to make the table the most sacred object of furniture in every home, in every church, in every community, our faith would quickly regain its power and our world would quickly become a better place.

I think that's so good.

Okay, so the first thing that I want to share with you is from the book Taste and See by Margaret Feinberg.

And the whole book is really about discovering God among the butchers, bakers, and fresh food makers and around the table.

And here is what she shares near the end of her book.

Food really is God's love made delicious, nutritious and restorative.

But we must learn to slow down and savor the delicate flavors and divine lessons.

In a culture rife with consumerism and driven by efficiency, where many meals are handed out a drive through window and eaten solo, this isn't the easiest spiritual discipline to practice, but it's well worth it.

She wraps up the book by saying, may your table be set not just with food, but vulnerability and delight.

May your mouth be filled not just with morsels of meat, but with reminders of God's loving kindness.

May every meal at which you find yourself be a foretaste of the feast to come.

The next thing that I want to share with you is we kind of touched on this today in the episode, but there's so many people feel lonely and there's people that feel like they don't even have close friends.

And there's a book called Find you'd People by Jenny Allen.

And I wanted to share with you a little bit from that book.

The subtitle of her book is Building Deep Community in a Lonely World.

And she's basically talking about that.

Having friendships, it takes commitment and takes being consistent and it takes sometimes being inconvenient.

So I want to share something with you about that.

She says, what I'm calling you to instead, what Paul was calling us to, what God is calling us to, is a wholly different supernatural mindset that is guarded, supplied and filled with Christ Jesus.

He is the way we think, relate, speak, reconcile, forgive and love.

Because we've been given such abundance, we give away our abundance.

This is our story.

This is how we live out the gospel.

We choose to be inconvenienced for the sake of each other.

If you think about it, friendship, all relationships really is a giant inconvenience, at least if we're doing it right.

And the inconvenience chosen again and again changes us, wakes us up makes us laugh and love and hope and dream.

Yeah, intertwining my life with other people is, is inconvenient, but I'll take that kind of trouble again and again over the ease and emptiness of trying to go it alone.

To leave behind our loneliness and enjoy the reward of community.

We have to keep showing up, keep being vulnerable, keep coming to the table, be together, work together and share life together over and over again.

Then one day we look up and realize our friendships have grown deep.

And there's a section in her book where she's talking about the science of building friendships because basically we have to spend more time with people in order to get closer, in order to get from like an acquaintance to a friend to a good friend to a best friend.

And so it's a really interesting part of the book.

I'm not going to go into that with you right now, but if this is of interest to you, it's a really good book.

The next thing that I want to share with you, this next quote that I'm going to share with you and idea is from Jen Schmidt of Just Open the Door.

And the subtitle is how one Invitation Can Change a Generation.

And it's a really lovely book.

So she's basically talking about she started having come as you are nights and she says her hosting philosophy behind this come as you are basically came from some nights.

We're just worn out, we're tired.

We don't want to have a Pinterest worthy have to have a Pinterest worthy recipe and we don't want to get all dolled up for one more thing.

So she says she sent them an invitation for this this night and she said ladies, this is a come as you are night.

I was throwing the expectation of perfection out the window.

She says come as you are with whatever clothes you'd ordinarily put on after a long hard day of work.

I'm assuming that sweatpants, PJs, no shower, doesn't matter.

Then in bracket, she says, when I talked to the lady separately, I inserted bras optional.

You can bring food if you want, but you don't have to.

All failed Pinterest recipes welcome.

No using stoves allowed.

Half eaten bags of chips encouraged.

And if you don't bring anything, that's perfect too.

Unless your love language is homemade chocolate chip cookies, then go for it.

I'd hate to rob you of that blessing, she says.

And that's exactly how they came in slippers and sweatpants and T shirts and tanks with unwashed hair and unwashed hearts.

And it started something so beautiful we never wanted the night to end, she says.

After food and coffee and sweet tea and sodas, I gathered everyone in the family room and we snuggled on the sofas as well as the floor.

I brought out every pillow and fuzzy blanket I owned, even a few extras for good measure, and I spread them out for everyone to grab.

I wanted this to be a safe haven for open conversation.

And being cuddled up in a cozy blanket is the perfect start.

It helps rip away the pretenses.

The gift of hospitality is meant to create more than just warm, welcoming spaces, but ones that ensure safety.

Then here's pretty much what I said.

Maybe it'll help you as you think about hosting these kinds of gathering yourself.

One of the greatest gifts you can give one another, ladies, is your imperfection.

Our stories are gifts we must share.

We must wrestle past the fine deep, dive into real life and let go of others expectations and allow our authenticity to bond our community.

So I just wanted to share that with you because I think that's really a invitation for you to put yourself out there, to invite someone over to extend your circle.

Right.

Of people that you wouldn't normally invite to talk to your neighbors and plan an evening in the.

In the front yard, whatever you want to do.

Another book that's really inspired me over the years about community and connection and being present is called the Turquoise Table by Kristen Schell.

And it's finding community and connection in your own front yard.

Basically, years ago, before she wrote the book, she decided to take a picnic table that she had in painted aqua, or I guess turquoise.

And she put it in her front yard because she realized, well, we all hang out in our backyards and we never see our neighbors.

And so she decided, I'm putting it in my front yard because maybe I'll actually be able to connect with more people.

And when she did that, then she decided, okay, I'm just going to invite some people in my neighborhood over for coffee and donuts one morning.

And that's what she did.

She didn't have to have her house tidy.

She didn't have to do a whole spread.

She just said, I'll be out there for, you know, from this time to this time.

Come by if you can.

And it turned into this lovely idea of coming to the table in your own front yard or your neighbors.

And I just want to share one little excerpt from the book with you.

Here we go.

She says we've got to debunk the myth that hospitality is the Same as entertainment.

Genuine hospitality begins with opening our lives.

It's just as important to open our lives as it is our homes.

And sharing who we are is far more important than sharing what we bake.

In fact, sharing our hearts is more important than sharing a plate of chocolate chip cookies, though cookies might soften us up to share the pieces of us that are shy.

Hospitality begins in the heart, not the oven.

It all starts with inviting people to come to the table.

Hospitality is always about the people, not the presentation.

That's what the neighbors one straight over on Glenridge Drive found out.

At the same time I was wrestling with God, wondering how to create community two blocks over, my neighbors didn't know yet.

I didn't know yet had similar longings.

Anyways, so that's how she says.

That's how the concept of Front Yard Fridays was created.

Invite neighbors to join you for a casual get together on Friday evening in your front yard.

Easy enough, they thought.

In that week, the four families hosted the first Front Yard Friday.

But the idea is, it doesn't have to be elaborate, it doesn't have to be complicated, but we need to do life with other people.

That's how we were designed.

And I don't know about you, but how many of us can feel more isolated, more alone, or less connected?

I see some friends a lot and I know a lot about them, but I have other friends that I care about and love very much, but I don't see them much.

And so I miss out on knowing what's really going on with them as, as deeply.

Also, I think many of us are comfortable inviting our close knit circle over, but we struggle with extending the table or making it longer for the people that don't look or feel or think or vote like us.

And so one of my own takeaways from today's interview is something that's been on my heart for a while, which is that I want to host people, even people I don't know.

I want to have friends and family always invite someone to bring with them, right, to invite more people to the table and that the tables might need to keep getting bigger and bigger because more and more people are invited that we don't all know.

And so that's been in my heart for a while.

And I want to make the commitment to do that.

But basically Anne's book is just trying to remind us we need to prioritize connection.

We need to be present and realize how our phones or other things can distract us and take us away from real connection.

We need to notice, are we only spending 5 minutes or 10 minutes around the table, or are we rarely sitting around the table or having coffee with somebody else?

Is it always on the go?

And then how do we help other people feel connected?

How do we help other people not feel alone and let them know that they're seen and they're heard and they're known who they are?

And so my takeaway for you today is, first of all, who can you invite?

What table can you say to somebody, let's meet.

I'd love to see you.

You're welcome here.

And go do that in the next week.

And if you don't want to do it on your own to start with, go ask a friend.

Do it together.

But I think the more that we encourage each other to go out and create community, create connection, and share a meal together or share sweet tea or coffee in the morning, the more we're going to feel God's presence moving among us and through us.

So until next time, I hope you have a wonderful, blessed week.

And I hope that your table becomes an altar and a place that people feel connected and closer to both you and God.

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