In this episode, IT expert and veteran Craig Turner shares his journey into the tech industry, exploring the evolution of technology, cybersecurity challenges, and AI’s impact on modern infrastructure. He also highlights the importance of compliance in the gaming industry and offers valuable advice for aspiring IT professionals.

It's like taking a shower, right?

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You don't take a shower and you smell good for the rest of your life, right?

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If you keep taking a shower.

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So it's kind of that thing is wash, rinse, repeat, right?

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Remind yourself, re-motivate yourself and look at things.

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Hey, can we do this better?

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Right.

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As I like to say is like, let's get the OK, let's get the good, let's get the gooder and

then let's get the best.

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Right.

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Do you ever achieve fast?

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Probably not.

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But we don't want to let perfect get in the way of good.

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So welcome to the Las Vegas IT management.

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My name is Shay Toya.

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I'm super excited to be interviewing Craig Turner with Penn Entertainment, who is also a

veteran.

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How are you doing today, Craig?

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Hanging in there, okay.

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So we're gonna go ahead and just learn a little bit more about you.

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I would love to get to know how did you become an IT professional?

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Well, it started in the actually.

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Back in 1996, I enlisted in the Navy.

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Wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do with my life.

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Up to that point, I thought I would be a professional tennis player.

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That never happened.

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So enlisted in the Navy and they had some requirements for cryptologist, technician,

communications, and it sounded fun.

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so I went to school and then last semester, we found a home.

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and then I'm gonna go on and the results.

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I know that's pretty cool.

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So you were, I guess your plan, we all have plans, was to become, how long did you play

tennis for?

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I started playing tennis around 13.

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I really got into it.

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My baseball career didn't go as well as I thought it would.

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So I played up until I graduated high school, kind of stepped away from the sport for a

while and then got back into it recreationally.

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And then spent some time trying, you know, teaching and stuff like that.

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So technically, I guess you could say I was a professional for a short lived time, but

yeah, it's.

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I still love the sport.

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Got some great people.

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Gave a sport.

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It's fun.

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IT, if you won't pay the bills.

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Got it, I totally understand.

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There was a time, a long, long time ago where I was all into basketball, so I get it.

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And then, you you did share with us, you got into the army, you went to school.

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Was there a reason you chose the IT field?

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Was it just due to the army or military, or I guess what kind of happened with that?

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Well, it was the Navy and they didn't call it when I joined.

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Right.

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I.T.

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was really in its infancy.

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At my age, you know, we were getting AOL desks sent to the house.

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And so and quite honestly, you know, the Navy was trying to transition and not sure what

to call it.

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And so when I first came in, you know, the I.T.

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rate, if you will, were called radio manning.

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Right.

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And so communication was, you know, the core competency that they wanted.

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And so they transitioned to into IT probably early 2000s, if you will.

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And so they understood that there was a gap and there's a skill set that we need across

the services.

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And so they started leveraging commercial software and some of the companies and

organizations that were really pushing

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the needle, if you will, on the technology.

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And so the Navy's like, we need you to learn this.

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You go to school and read books and, you know, learn it, you know.

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So there was no Google, there was no internet to to troubleshoot stuff or learn how to do

stuff.

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There was no YouTube or anything like that.

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So you had to go buy books.

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had to go.

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Hopefully you got on a distribution for CDs, but three, you know.

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Bunch of bunch of bunch of bunch of tax files and stuff.

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Yeah, been a journey.

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and I'm sure it became easier because before you had to do the research through books and

stuff like that.

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So I'm sure it's became a lot easier to do so.

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That was too much

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Yeah, yeah, very.

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And then so you talked about communications, you know, got, guess, what are some of the

most challenging IT projects, you know, with being in the Navy, have you worked on and how

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did you overcome them?

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The most challenging projects?

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my gosh.

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Messaging is the biggest, one of the biggest services like military users, know, maybe do

a whole lot.

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And so learning how mail, you know, traverses the interwebs, if you will, right?

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Understanding that technology, you know, how it's hosted and stuff like that.

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And then, you know, securing it.

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That was the other piece, right?

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Cyber security didn't exist, right?

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No one knew what was going on.

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You know, we encrypted our traffic through, you know, a lot of legacy World War II Vietnam

era technology, right?

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And we thought that was the place.

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So I think.

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In my Navy career, that was one of the biggest challenges, right?

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And understanding you go from semi-climate bottom circuits to, you know, line of sight.

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SHF circuits and troubleshooting and learning that.

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And the next thing you know, it's like, all right, sit down at this computer and you send

an email, right?

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Understanding how that works and being able to troubleshoot it and come to find out it's

two servers that support a whole, you know, the story squadron or a whole fleet, right?

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And, you know, those servers overheat or reboot or whatever, like, you know, it was I'm

not saying catastrophic, but you got phone calls really quickly of what's going on here.

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know, so.

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That was probably one of the biggest challenges.

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then just as my career progressed, right, you're learning more technology and more in the

scale of it.

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You know, in most organizations right now, from an IT perspective, you know, they're

supporting one office building, maybe a handful or what have you.

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Yeah, they're enterprise.

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But in the military and in service, you're supporting hundreds of thousands of service

members and a whole

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region, right?

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Like, so the scale of it is they can't just turn stuff on and on and reboot it and see if

it works.

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Like, it can be very catastrophic.

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and sounds very stressful at times.

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Thank you for sharing that, Craig.

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I do appreciate it.

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And when it comes to the, because I know one of the things you didn't mention before I ask

you my other question, you said in the past, like cyber security, cyber attacks, unless I

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heard you wrong, wasn't really a thing.

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I guess when or what or how did it become a thing?

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I think the leaders in the industry, if you will, right, got together with the Department

of Defense.

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And that's what the Department of Defense does is every day things like, where are our

threats?

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How do we address these threats?

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They have a plan A, B, C, and D.

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And if those don't work, then they have another book and say, all right, we'll do FGH.

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And so here you have these new capabilities.

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And of course, military leaders, industry leaders, right?

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Like how do you protect?

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Right.

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And so what are the skill set you need, you know, all this other stuff.

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So they work closely with, you know, the Microsoft's or the world, IBM's of the world, you

know, Google came out, you know, so all these things were coming about, you know, like,

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all right, these are great technologies.

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These are great features and services that we can leverage.

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How do we protect it?

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And so.

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Well, it's made it a priority, right?

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You know, they're trying to I'm sure they they spent weeks coming up with a cool guy

named, you know, call it right.

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And then it's like, all right, we got a cool guy named.

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Now, how do we address this grow our services and our fleet?

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Right.

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What curriculum and training do they need?

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What specialized training do they need?

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And stuff such work like that.

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Right.

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And so that.

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I would say that came right around.

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I don't know, 2002, three or error.

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time frame is when they're like, all right, we need some skill sets and resources to start

addressing these things.

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And so, you know, the CompTIA Security Plus didn't exist, right?

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You know, all these cybersecurity sort of patients and education that you have now didn't

exist, right?

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And so the military was putting together these brick lumps and saying, know, learn this

stuff.

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you know, it was good training in the beginning, right?

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And so I think that's what kind of mushroomed into this

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this whole industry now.

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Yeah, and I see that like how much time can change just in 20 years.

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It's just crazy to say that 2003 was 24, I guess more than 20 years ago and just the

changes that we've gone through.

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And so how do you guys really, how do you ensure that the infrastructure aligns with

business objections at Pinnant Entertainment?

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That's the million dollar question, It is you want to protect the organization and but

also the organization needs to make money at the end of the day, right?

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Like they, you whatever their mission is or in fact, in France, got to support them in a

way that doesn't impede, right?

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But also protect the organization.

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So it's definitely a dance, right?

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Whether you call it the waltz or, you know, swing dance, right?

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It's definitely a dance.

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And so I think

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You know, it's not just the organization itself, right?

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And these governing bodies, whether it's gaming control boards or PCI, right?

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You know, the credit bureaus and the banks.

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Right.

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And so it.

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How do I say this?

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Like they only, the, the malicious actors don't have to be right once we have to be right

all the time.

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So it's a difficult dance and we have this like tiered approach of really trying to

protect the organization.

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Right.

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And then there's sometimes there's a cost factor, right?

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Like it's like, you don't have millions and millions of dollars and millions of millions

of resources to implement solutions and stuff like that.

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Right.

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So you, sometimes it's just that.

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It's a leadership policy to protect this information, right?

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This is how we're to do things until XYZ is happening.

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so, and it's definitely collaborative, right?

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You can't just expect the cyber security analysts to plug all the holes and protect

everything, right?

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There's the scale of it is just too much, right?

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So you have to work together.

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You know, your service desk, your infrastructure team, your DevOps team, your engineering

team, right?

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I like to say it's like we're all reading the same book, but it seems like we're on

different chapters.

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And so it's trying to get these teams to start collaborating more, working together more,

and as I call it, not run with scissors.

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And so that's really, in my background, in my history, in my honest opinion, that's really

like the only way you can really address a lot of these risks and know, and...

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contacting the organization.

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A lot of it's just sweat equity, rolling up the sleeves and know, and go to work.

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There's no silver bullet out.

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No, never, never at all.

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And so what are some of the ways that you work with a team with your team to make sure

that they're following the policies when it comes to these risk factors?

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they're copious and copious amounts of audit, right?

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you know, you have different types of audits, right?

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To make sure, you know, we're not getting kicked in the teeth.

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We're not paying fines or, you know, we're protecting this and type of thing.

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The other thing is you have tools in place to help you remind yourself, right?

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Like we're all human.

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So you put process in place and you manage that process, right?

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And you lead the people and say like,

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these are the policies, right?

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And let's manage these processes so that we're not having a bad day or a long weekend,

right?

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And so, and you do your due diligence, right?

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You do the legwork upfront, have to put in notifications, alerts and everything like that.

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it's kind of one of those things, it's like taking a shower, right?

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You don't take a shower and you smell good for the rest of your life, right?

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If you keep taking a shower.

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It's kind of that thing is wash, rinse, repeat, right?

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Remind yourself, re-motivate yourself and look at things.

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Hey, can we do this better?

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As I like to say is like, let's get the OK, let's get the good, let's get the gooder and

then let's get the best, right?

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Do you ever achieve best?

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Probably not.

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But we don't want to let perfect get in the way of good.

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And so and sometimes, you know, you can come back to goodness like, all right, you know, I

have a little bit more energy, you know, let me see if I can make it better.

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And so that's

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the mentality that you try to implement between all those teams, right?

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And so not one person is going to know everything about everything, right?

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And so, you know, you might be the hero on Tuesday and then next thing you know, Tim on

another team is the hero, right?

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So that's the kind of mentality and collaboration and camaraderie you need to, you know,

product your organization and just kind of implement those strategies.

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And from just from what you've told me so far, I can see the importance of that.

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And so one of the biggest topics lately that we've been talking about just the last few

weeks, few months is AI.

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And so what role does automation play in modern IT infrastructure and how do you leverage

it in your work?

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So AI is the new kid on the block, right?

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It's the shiny new tool.

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I think it could provide organizations with minus amount of value, right?

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Just like with anything that's highly implemented.

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so you heard me say the phrase, don't run with systems.

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And so I think organizations are taking a step back to really understand what is it that

they're trying to do?

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What is the problem you're trying to solve?

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And so automation, obviously on the surface, right?

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You can lean out on your labor force.

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You can lean out process.

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You can streamline stuff.

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Hey, like I'm not firing you or not reducing the workforce.

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I just need you to focus on more core business stuff, right?

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Stuff that generates revenue for the organization versus doing these 10 things manually,

right?

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Like, you know what I mean?

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And it's not making you money.

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So I think

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There's a small field of people who are really diving into this right and understanding

the business value right.

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It's connecting those thoughts and so.

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It's one thing to understand the technology and how it works in honestly the sweat equity

behind it, right?

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Like it's not just double click and install something.

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There you go.

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got AI in your organization.

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That's not how it works.

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So you, you have to have the engineers and the really smart people behind the scenes to

implement it right in a way that, you know, it's beneficial.

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And then you have to take that technology and then present it to your internal customers,

your stakeholders and your business leaders and say,

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Hey, I did this really high speed cool thing we should pay for it.

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And they're like, in that transition, I guess you will, or translation needs to happen.

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And that's very difficult.

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So I think, especially in the gaming world, you know, they do a lot of data to affect

daily, monthly, quarterly business decisions, right?

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And so obviously these organizations want a system or a tool

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to help them make better business decisions, right?

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So it's making a big splash all over the news.

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I get it.

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Like I just think the normal population doesn't understand the efforts it takes to

implement systems and then put guardrails around it.

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Like that's the other thing, put guardrails.

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You don't want your, you know, dirty laundry all over the internet, right?

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Like, so it's trying to put those guardrails in place.

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So I think organizations put efforts.

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implementing it is I just don't think they should be running what's in the works by

itself.

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Got it.

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As you said, it's the new topic.

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Everyone's talking about it.

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Everybody wants to hear about it.

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But how could a business protect themselves with this new, and it's not even new, let's be

honest, like AI has been around for quite a while, but I guess it's a new hot topic now.

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Like how are these businesses able to protect themselves?

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Well, the irony in it is to, cause they're security, cybersecurity AI tools, right?

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You know, I think, Hey, getting the talent in-house, right?

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You gotta have the talent.

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I'm not saying, you know, go out and hire a team of engineers, just to do AI, right?

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Like I'm sure these organizations have talented in-house people.

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to step into these roles.

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And I think partnering with a good partner, right?

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And that helps.

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I think protecting themselves and the organization from, as you call it, AI, there's ways

to put restrictions in place, right?

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Like in controls in place to ensure that your data is not

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all of the internet.

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The problem is, it's the commercial side, right?

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The consumer side of AI is preventing, know, Tina and accounting from importing her this,

you know, salary report in Excel into ChapDVT, right?

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Like that's the challenge, right?

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Or, hey, I have this raw data output from my gaming system at this property, now I'm going

to do analysis on it, right?

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So I'm going to import it into the, know, Craig Turner AI app.

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Right.

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And so that's the danger here.

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Right.

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Because once you get, it's on the internet.

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You can't get it back.

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Like, you know, once you give it airtime, there's no walking it back.

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And so that's it's protecting that type of data, you know, out on the internet.

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And so you don't want to curb their moxie, right?

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Like these are team members who are trying to do a great job and, know,

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hit home runs and stuff.

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But on the other hand, it's kind of like, well, you know, I don't want to curb your moxie,

but we need to stay in these guardrails right now and protect the organization.

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Because at the end of the day, it's not their data, right?

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It's the organization's data.

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you know, you're at the end of the day, cybersecurity teams, know, IT are to put

inconveniences, if you will.

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And you can't use this extension.

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Your browser is going be locked down.

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not going to be able go to these websites.

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Right?

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You you can't, you know, this type of data, right?

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And so, right.

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And these are all good controls.

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It's just understanding that team members need to understand it's like, it's not your

data.

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You don't have inadvertent exposure of PI information, HR data and stuff like that, just

because you want to, you know, have a fancy pie chart, right?

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Like, and so that's the type of stuff.

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I think what's really interesting, most organizations,

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are looking at and what we've got official is that the cybersecurity, LLMs and the machine

learning and AI tools that they had going on because that could really help those teams

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because you know, they're, typically run lean.

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They typically, I'm not saying that they're running on a treadmill, right?

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Like trying to plug all the holes and so having a strong AI system, if you will, right.

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to augment those gaps, right?

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Those challenges for them.

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And a perfect example would be, marketing, marketing was exposed, his credentials got

honed or what have you, and you have this AI system in place to identify Mark's been

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compromised.

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So we're going to make his identity extremely high risk, and we're going to challenge him

with.

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MFA or everything like that.

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And if that's not good enough, then we're going to alert the cybersecurity team and IT and

say, Hey, Mark's been exposed, have them come in or have a reset of password.

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And that all can be done automatically, like without human intervention.

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But to get to that point is a lot of sweat equity to, you know, condition it right.

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And to train the system.

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So we're just not there yet.

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It's not as far as everyone believes it is, so I get it.

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And then just kind of looking at your LinkedIn profile, I'd seen that you have experience

with Microsoft 360.

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Can you just share us about with your experience?

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Yeah, so M365 is kind of like the enterprise collaborative programs or applications that I

would say 90 % of the world uses, right?

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know, school districts, government, municipalities, DOD, know, gaming.

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It's Microsoft Word, it's email, it's Outlook, it's Teams, you know, all these

collaborative office suite.

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Right?

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So it's...

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In infancy, it was really just about email being forklifted into the cloud, right?

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And every exchange administrator in the world was clapping and celebrating laughs.

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don't have to maintain exchange servers anymore, right?

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Like, but it's over the years and it's expanding quite a bit.

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And so there's so many, I don't know, branches off of it now that, you know, it's very

hard to find someone who knows.

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Everything about M365, much as we try to learn a Microsoft's constantly moving the

goalposts on, know, like, you know, this one thing you have it down, they make a change

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and it humbles you really quickly.

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So yeah, I think.

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Everybody's familiar with Microsoft Office Suite, you know, and they're always constantly

doing a rebranding of.

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What they're going to call it now, so I think they're rewinding it again, co-pilot office

or office co-pilot.

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That's kind of what my experience is.

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it and then so what are some of the you systems that you currently use for pen

entertainment?

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I mean, short answer, all of the above.

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I think the major ones from an infrastructure standpoint, you know, were a big Cisco

organization, VMware, peer storage, Rubix.

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You know, that's a solution that will help organizations protect themselves as well as

recover, right?

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You know, not everybody's perfect.

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And so if you do get polymer,

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You know, copper moment, you have a solution in place to restore business, cognitively

disasters and stuff like that.

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So, you know, when I was growing up, natural disasters, actors, God, where your disaster

right now, it's ransomware and the services and disaster.

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Right.

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So being able to recover from those things, having a system of like river since when the

system got to used.

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And then, you know, windows, Linux, you know, we do a lot of cloud.

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So we have.

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GCP, AWS, Azure, like I said, it's all of the above, right?

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Like, you know, and I'm sure there's a hundred more tools that, you know, that teams use

that we're just not, you know, I don't use on-board resources.

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I know Pablo's and Power BI is another suite of tools that our organization uses.

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Yeah, it's a lot.

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Got it.

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Too many, I guess to learn all of them, but no, that's awesome.

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Then just go back to security.

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There's always changes.

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How do you keep up with all the changes when it comes to cybersecurity?

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There is a lot of changes, but I think as you become more seasoned in discipline, in your

trade, you realize these changes are noise, right?

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then what I mean by that is it's not chasing the shiny fishing oil, right?

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I think there's still value in sweat equity, being rolling up your sleeves and really

diving into hearty your systems, right?

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And then I think there's still value in some of the techniques and disciplines that, you

know, these larger certifications, like, you know, a lot of these, you know, CIS plus

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certifications, know, level of fact has a certification now.

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I think

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Having that foundation will get you 50, 60 % there, right?

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And then developing your own skills to get you to the next level.

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I think the changes are cosmetic.

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A lot of times I think it's, you know, big marketing, right?

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And then understanding, you know, stop looking through a straw and look through a car

windshield, like, all right, now I can see the forest through the trees kind of thing,

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right?

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It's understanding like, right, let me, cause there's only one way to eat it all at one

bite at a time.

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So like if you're constantly, you know, chasing these changes, right.

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You're not going to get anything done.

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Like, so we all think we were good at multitasking or not.

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Like, so it's, you know, I like to say human beings are windows where, you know, windows

is really good at start and stopping really fast.

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Whereas Linux and Unix are true multitasking, multiprocessing.

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So I.

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I that's the best approach, and understanding what those changes could really impact.

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It's one of those things, right?

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It's just like a new kid on the block or this new tool or this big shift in change and

what is the biggest threat.

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Ransomware is today is the biggest threat, but it might be.

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fishing tomorrow, right?

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And so like you're constantly like, all right, well, I'm going to focus on this now,

right?

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And then I got to focus like, then you completely forget about these other threads, right?

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Like, hey, so I don't know, it's exhausting to say the least.

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And I feel like this with anything we do, there's always going to be something new.

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And I'm just curious, Craig, have you read the book, The One Thing?

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The one thing?

383

Yes.

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No, I haven't.

385

Okay, I'm not sure if you're a big reader, but it's kind of what the book talks about,

just like, you know, how we're not great multitaskers.

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So if you're reader, I recommend it.

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When I grew up, there was a book called Getting Things Done.

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it's very similar in that mindset.

389

And one of the things that the author preached about is, and check your email three times

a day.

390

Put an auto office on and say, look, I want to check my email three times a day.

391

If it's that important, you need to call me, me, or come get me if you work in the office.

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But if you send me an email, just

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just know that I probably won't read it until the end of the day and I'm not gonna respond

until the next day.

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Like so, yeah, it's.

395

That's pretty much what the book talks about, so I'm sure it's very similar.

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So thank you for sharing that, Craig.

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And then when it comes to your role, the compliance, what does that play in infrastructure

management at Penn Entertainment, and how do you ensure to industry standards?

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compliance is, I would say, it's a necessary needle.

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Right.

400

And so it can be very frustrating at times because you find yourself repeating yourself

day in and day out for gaming specifically.

401

It's extremely important.

402

Right.

403

And reason being is, it's like, you have internal compliance, right?

404

They're trying to protect the organization, make sure these teams are doing what they're

saying they're doing.

405

Right.

406

And

407

It's kind of that whole trust but verify type of thing, right?

408

And then you have these governing bodies, know, gaming control boards, each jurisdiction,

each state has their own set of rules, right?

409

Like how they want things done.

410

So compliance, and this goes across the board of many organizations, industries, right?

411

You got banking, you got financials, you got with fends, you got all these school

districts, right?

412

They all have.

413

governing bodies with governing controls, right?

414

And so I think it's extremely important.

415

Sometimes the application of it, I think, is less than we desired.

416

And I think, you know, there is a lot of room for improvement, if you will.

417

So in regards to, you know, efficiencies, knowledge, understanding, because a lot of

times, compliant analysts are

418

compliance teams, right?

419

They don't have an IT background, right?

420

And then they jump into it like, I gotta check all these controls.

421

And so, you know, it's that communication piece again, right?

422

Is understanding, I'm not talking to a technologist, if you will, right?

423

Like I'm having to meet the mark on this thing, right?

424

And so understanding that and being able to meet the mark and check the box and say, you

know, we're compliant is...

425

It's kind of like cyber security.

426

It's your party day to day operation, right?

427

Like, you know, so you can avoid it or try to get away with it now, but eventually you're

to have to pay for it, right?

428

Like, so pay for it now or pay for it later.

429

So that's kind of my mentality is just do it right the first time, you don't have to worry

about it.

430

You know I mean?

431

So.

432

that's so, true in anything you do.

433

Craig, today's been a very, you know, very pleasurable to be able to speak to you.

434

Is there anything that you would like to add for our audience?

435

You know, for anybody who's listening and trying to get into the IT industry or IT in

general, I know on the surface it seems overwhelming because there's just so much

436

information out there, right?

437

There's so much to learn.

438

If you listen to this podcast, right, there's only one way to eat an elephant.

439

It's one bite at a time.

440

And, you know, take that first step.

441

Just recently I learned, you know, the Las Vegas library, I think it's

442

all of the state of quite honestly, that you get a library card, you get free Udemy access

and free LinkedIn training.

443

That means you don't have to out of pocket, right?

444

As long as you go to the library and take Udemy courses, right?

445

Study for cert exams, you know, and stuff like that.

446

So there's a of material out there and, you know, don't let anybody stop you if you want

to get into IT and look.

447

you're going to cut your teeth out of service task or, you know, an intern job.

448

You're like, man, this sucks or I hate doing this or whatever.

449

Like there's so many branches of IT now.

450

Right.

451

Like you're bound to find something that you really enjoy and really enjoy learning.

452

And so I guess my my communication will be is, you know, give it a shot.

453

What's the worst that's going to happen?

454

Right.

455

Like, you know, you don't enjoy it.

456

Right.

457

Try the next thing.

458

So.

459

it I did not know that.

460

I did not know if you have a library card and so for that access to that I'm guessing you

need to be at the library to get access to UNIME and all those great courses.

461

No, it's crazy.

462

You go get a library card and they, there's a link.

463

You, you put your library card number in there and you have access and it's not just IT

stuff.

464

It's, it's data science, it's project management, it's psychology, it's up courses, right?

465

It's as that courses that, know, if you want to the military, like there's tons of

information, right?

466

Like you want to be a school teacher, right?

467

There's tons of courses.

468

If you want to get into HR, right?

469

Like there's tons of courses with certs and cert products and everything all completely

free.

470

It's crazy.

471

Like, I like, why isn't this like more widespread?

472

It's insane to me.

473

Like, you know, it's like, it's all right there.

474

Like I didn't have any of this when I was going out there.

475

I would have just like, my head would have exploded if I had this information, right?

476

Like, so yeah, you can go out, can go home, you can do it from your phone, like, you know,

wherever, but yeah.

477

That's amazing.

478

Yeah, that's great to know.

479

So if anyone needs that information, that is great to know.

480

Well, Craig, it was a pleasure.

481

And if someone's looking to reach out to you, how would they do so?

482

LinkedIn, that's the best way to do it.

483

The way I don't have to like, you know, my personal phone number and personal email and

like get spanned by vendors and stuff like that.

484

Like reach out, LinkedIn, I'll be it daily.

485

and that's how we connected, so that's awesome.

486

Well, Craig, it was a pleasure and I'm excited.

487

Yeah, so thank you.

488

I appreciate it.