When it comes to money – especially feelings of insufficiency or inadequacy – there’s often a lot more going on than the numbers. I was so lucky to host the incredibly inspiring Joan Sotkin in an intense conversation about our relationship with money and prosperity. She shared her unique philosophy and approach to helping people with their finances, and we learned a lot about things like

· It’s not about the money; it’s our habitual emotions that are the issue

· We have learned attitudes about ourselves and our relationship with the world that impact how we feel about money

· Connecting with our emotions will do more to resolve our financial concerns than you’d expect

· Bonus: Learn why, for Joan, making the business scalable and saleable isn’t her priority

The conversation got deep about childhood, feelings, and our fundamental approach to life. I’ve continued to think about what Joan had to say, and I think you will too. I’d love to have a conversation with you about this podcast and how it might relate to your business. Contact me to set up a call.

Connect with Joan: 

Website: ProsperityPlace.com

LinkedIn: Joan Sotkin

Free PDF of Build Your Money Muscles. https://ProsperityPlace.com/freebymm

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Ep. 25 Joan Sotkin

Erin

Hello ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am so excited to have Joan Atkin here with me today. Joan, thank you so much for joining me.

Joan

It's great to be here.

Erin

Yeah. Uh, Joan is quite accomplished. I am going to read her bio that I will warn you that it won't even. Nearly dear Justice for her experience.

But, for over 30 years, Joan Atkin has been guiding entrepreneurs and practitioners to resolve longstanding money issues. She's the founder of the popular website, prosperity.com. She's host of the Prosperity Show podcast and author of the award-winning book, build Your Money Muscles. Nine Simple Exercises for Improving Your Relationship With.

Joan is known for her insightful understanding of the connection between money and emotions, and how family of origin experiences affect a person's ability to succeed in business, and financially. The unique holistic approach combines brain science, health and nutrition, and over 40 years of personal and financial growth that allows her to help clients develop a healthy relationship with their money and themselves.

And, honestly, reading this, I wasn't aware of the family of origin experiences. I wanna talk about that part. Cause I, I definitely hear about that and how well it, how much it affects us. I don't think any of us really think about that unless somebody pointed out to us how much it affects us.

Joan

And that's the key. Incidentally, my site is prosperity place.com. There is. One was the, did I get that wrong? I apologize. Yeah, that's okay. . I had no trouble correcting it.

Erin

. We'll have it ready. We'll have it write the show notes, I

Joan

promise. Right. Okay, so who you are today? Not what you do, but who you are.

Being today is a result of all the things you learned in childhood, including not only your thoughts and beliefs, but your emotions. When your mother was pregnant with you, you learned her emotions. And as a baby, you learned energetically from the people around you before you had words, and so you learned all of those emotions.

There's even a, thing called inherited emotions. I mean, you have an emotional genes so that. Ancestral background makes a difference. Your, ethnic group, where you come from what your family went through. All of those things combined to create who you are and the habits. You developed in early childhood.

Mm-hmm. . So you are not your thoughts. You are not your beliefs. You are not your emotions. They're just habits that you developed. And people tend to think the reason they can't make more money or the business is not successful is there's something wrong with them that's creating this dysfunction. When in fact it's just the habits that you're acting out through your business and your money.

So when someone says, I can't make money because I have imposter syndrome, I'll say that's as good an excuse as any. Uh, it in other words, whatever is happening with your money has nothing to do with. It has to do with the habitual emotions that you're bringing to your money. So if you look at your bank balance, And you feel ashamed of what you're seeing.

That has nothing to do with the money. The money doesn't care how you feel about it. It's just a bunch of numbers, and that shame that you're feeling about the money is the shame that you habitually feel about yourself. so I see the money as a pathway to personal growth and nothing more than. Hmm.

So

Erin

because of the way we, what we bring to our conversations, our thoughts, our emotions about money kind of reveals what's going on. Not

Joan

about money, not about money, about ourselves, and we transfer those feelings to our money. Mm-hmm. . Got it. Uh, people who, who are in debt a. , they don't see the debt as an investment in themselves.

They see it as a burden. Mm-hmm. that feeling oppressed. Well, if you come from an oppressed minority, that's where you learn the feeling. And you never were taught how to express it. And feelings by their nature need to be expressed. They get stuck in your body. I can talk about the neural peptides, what we don't really need to do that they get stuck in your body until you express them.

And once they're expressed, then you don't have to create life stories. Where you feel oppressed. Now, women, particularly since your audience is mostly women, carry that oppression. Because of the way women generally have been treated. I'm not saying it from an angry place, I'm just saying it from a factual place and whatever, group you belong to, has a certain set of emotional dynamics that can end out, act out through their money.

I was born Jewish. I don't follow the religion. But I'm Jewish. No, ma, I mean, the minute I open my mouth, you can tell I'm New York Jewish. No matter how much I tried to think I was a Hindu or a Buddhist. Mm-hmm. . I'm New York Jewish. And I realized at one point that my biggest fear was that if you got to know me, you were gonna kill me.

Hm mm-hmm. , and now with all the antisemitism that's going on, I mean, Jews will not replace us. And it's like, what do you want from me? You know? Mm-hmm. , and I'm just being here and particularly in this day and age, is so much. Of this hate and, we absorb that. Mm-hmm.

and women generally have been fighting. I saw an ad the other day, one of the drug ads and , which always, uh, I find amusing cuz there's always a kid in a drug ad. I love that. You know, it'll go on for 20 seconds and I say to. Cue the kid and shows up every time. Try make it so young. If it's, if it's not a kid, It's a dog. Mm-hmm. and there's a woman dancing to get rid of the arthritis pain, or it was for the shingles vaccine. and she's wearing, she's dancing and having, In four inch heels, ? Well, fortunately or unfortunately, I've always had problem with my feet, so I could never wear heels, you know, and I could never feel like I belong.

Or if you see how women. Spend, they say, I don't have time to exercise. But if you look at all the makeup they're wearing these days, if they took the time that they would to put on the makeup and they exercised instead mm-hmm. , it would be a whole different world. Or to flow dry their hair or whatever.

Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah. You and I are sitting here with very cro hair. Exactly. We're

Erin

we're low vein and cows. So How does someone know that this is what is plaguing them? Like they may feel unsuccessful. you know, they know that something is not working right, but how do they know it's more emotional and not just kind of a tactical business

Joan

problem?

Well, you have to buy into the theory. Mm-hmm. . And here's my theory, . Let me tell you why I developed this theory. I had two younger millionaire brothers and I couldn't rub two pennies together. Mm-hmm. , and I wanted to know why. We came from the same family. same jokes were told in the family, cuz that's what we did.

But we never talked feelings. one of the rules was satins don't feel, uh, we are the only satins in the country. And so my father, who was nuts, had all these rules for satins, like, Atkins can't sing and Atkins can or cannot do this. And one of the things was Atkins don't feel. And when I went to Debtor's Anonymous and Overeaters Anonymous, they said it all had a feeling background, and I thought I better learn about feelings.

Mm-hmm. . So I made a list of 50 feelings and would practice them so that I knew what it meant. And I've come to see that the emotions are the creative force behind our life stories. So you have habitual thoughts. You have habitual beliefs. But the bridge between your internal world and your external world is your emotions, which is an energetic thing.

Mm-hmm. . So for example, If you have a habit of being disappointed, you're going to create stories that allow you to be disappointed unless you get in touch with that feeling and do certain release techniques, and there are lots of those around. I teach a lot of them. If you feel oppressed. How many women really like doing the dishes?

Every , , that's what got me out of wanting to stay married.

Why can't he do the dishes? Right? My father never did the dishes. Right. but you may not have a word, a way of identifying that feeling of oppression. You're just pissed. Mm-hmm. so that you might. Recognize anger and you can work. I spent a lot of time working on releasing anger, but if you don't work through that feeling of oppression mm-hmm.

then it, you'll always be in a one down position. Hmm. That glass seal ceiling, that's women's expression of being in a one down. And we've created that. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to blame yourself for something. But once you understand, and this is pretty much where my stuff differs from anyone else, if you understand the emotions, That you're experiencing in any situation, you'll understand why you're in that situation.

In other words, it's not something that's happening to you. Mm-hmm. , it's happening through you.

Erin

And so is the work to identify the emotion. Control

Joan

it. No, no, no. Control is not the word. Yeah. Okay. Express is the word. Okay. I work with a lot of men. Mm-hmm. . So I don't say to them, and what are you feeling?

Mm-hmm. , I might say to them, cuz then I'm an empath. I'll say, I'm feeling some sadness. Are you feeling that? Hmm mm-hmm. , uh, or are you feeling, and the one I usually start with is when you think about that situation, when your mother left, when your father beat you, you know, all these things that people are schlepping along with them, do you feel contracted or expanded?

And most people can recognize that feeling of contraction. Mm-hmm. , and I'll say, and where do you feel it? And they might say, in my chest or in the back of my neck. Mm-hmm. , or in my, abdomen. They rarely say my solar plexus. But that is where you're feeling it. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So once you understand that you're feeling contracted, Every time you think about not making enough money.

Mm-hmm. , it's not the not enough money that matters, it's the feeling of contraction. Mm-hmm. , it's hard for

Erin

me, I'm just, from personal experience, it's hard for me to imagine not feeling the contraction, which I'm feeling right now as you're describing it, Sure. When I think about money issues,

Joan

and that's why so many people, Are uncomfortable financially, even wealthy people.

Mm-hmm. , you know, we have this fantasy that if I had a million dollars, I'd be fine. If I had a billion dollars, I'd be fine. Mm. , but how many people with a billion dollars say to themselves, if I only had one more billion, yeah. I'd be okay. I'd be equal to somebody. Mm-hmm. . But there's always Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk and are they the happiest people in the world?

Mm-hmm. ? No, and I've been surrounded by wealth and celebrity all my life. and I worked in Hollywood and I've always had wealthy people in my family and around me. Mm-hmm. and. I asked myself pretty early on, what good is it if no one's happy, if they're all going to shrinks? And, what is the secret to that sense of.

Peace or happiness and peace. Feeling peaceful is a feeling. Mm-hmm. that you have to teach yourself. and all of the emotions that people are acting out through are politics. Now look how many people are angry. Mm-hmm. and refuse to believe that the parents i e. president, the governor, whoever's in charge, they're pissed off at their parents, so they take it out on whoever happens to be in charge.

Mm-hmm. , one of the people I'm close with, one of my internet friends who lives in England, decided that the problem is when boys are sent to boarding school, when they're young, since he was mm-hmm. , that feeling of alone mm-hmm. and, to me, The biggest feelings that people have now are not feeling Bel that they belong or that they feel connected.

and I had to teach myself those feelings, but also once I understand it stood that I needed to feel acted. I tried to imagine that feeling and ask what did I have to do with others in order for. To feel connected. It means I have to trust myself and understand that no one's gonna try to kill me, has never happened in my life.

It's not my habit. If I lived in a different neighborhood, that might be a problem. Mm-hmm. . So it's a matter of seeing people not as objects, but as people and understanding. I'd say 99% of people we come in contact are wounded children. Mm-hmm. . And they're not acting the way they do because they were loved and, cared for.

I have one client who, come from a very fundamentalist. Family and her father felt it was religious to beat her up with a belt or a, a spoon or whatever he happened to have in his hand. Right. Well, know, beating up children does not help their self-esteem. Mm-hmm. . So when you hear phrases like your self worth is equal to your net worth.

Well, it's such a statement. your self concept. Matters. And if you perceive yourself to be a poor person, when you do make money, let's say you get past that, you're not gonna necessarily be comfortable with the money. Cause the money goes against your self concept. Mm-hmm.

, INSERT AD HERE

what is the circumstance

Erin

where someone comes out of childhood with the kind of a healthy relationship with.

Emotions and therefore money, I

Joan

haven't met that person. Okay. It doesn't, okay. Are we going wrong an American thing or is it a It's a human thing except mm-hmm. In America, we have these people who beat up their children more than in other cultures. Mm-hmm. right in, the primitive cultures where they carry the baby on their back until, And a lot of it, there's an amazing amount of religious abuse.

Mm-hmm. , we don't, you know, we hear about, emotional abuse and physical abuse and sexual abuse, but there's an awful lot of emotional abuse as well, you better believe this or else. Mm-hmm. . Well, what if you're kid, you're going. They're telling me to believe it. How come they live that way? Mm-hmm.

how come they're talking about Jesus who was all about love and they're beating each other up. So it's confusing to children who don't have verbal skills to try to figure out what life is, and it only leads to these feelings of loneliness. Epidemic now. Mm-hmm. and anxiety and you know, when you, give 'em a drug, you know, give 'em a drug and that'll, no, that doesn't make it go away.

Mm-hmm. and then we go through periods where they're telling everybody in the class that they're perfect and here's a reward, but that doesn't take care of the hurt. Mm-hmm. , the hurt that people are carrying with them and their fear of being hurt. Yeah.

Erin

Yeah. And that feeling of disconnection, like one as a child, but also, as adults as we see, you know, kind of, you know, bowling alone.

Like, I think that, you know, I mean there's lots of, Research about how the breakdown of kind of social systems in the us, some of them around the church from small towns, and uh, in marriages, and that people are feeling more alone and you know, obviously social media

Joan

has a part and there's outsiders.

Yeah. What's really surprises me, I'm putting together a community now. Mm-hmm. , and it's gonna be live in a couple of months. I'm starting out with a group of leaders. Most leaders feel like outsiders because they're working with their flock. Whatever that flock looks like. Mm-hmm. , and they can't present who they really are.

There's a sense I have to be the strong one. I have to be the successful one. I have to be something that is not my authentic self.

Erin

Huh? I thought you were gonna say that. They're outliers, but that's

Joan

not what they feel like outsiders. They don't feel that they really, in other words, I have all these people.

I, at one point I had 50,000 people on my mailing list. Mm-hmm. , that didn't make me feel any more. Connected to any of those. So what I now, I'm lucky I'm an extrovert, but even though I've always been able to talk to just about anybody, which is why I have a podcast and why you probably have a podcast, we like to ask questions.

if you don't like to ask questions, you can't have much of a podcast. Okay? So, But I never felt, I was always looking for something. I never felt connected, even to my family. It was like I never felt they really understood who I was. mm-hmm. And so, I got to really like Zoom and Skype because it got me to be able to connect to so many people around the world, and it was easier to find people who talked at my level.

Mm-hmm. . Now, I'm not saying my level is better than your level. I just have a way of seeing. That's can be pretty weird. you know, I've done things in my life that don't fit into the model of Joan get married and have children and that's what you have to do. Mm-hmm. . So I've learned, a lot of people don't like Zoom because they don't know how to connect on Zoom, but for me you know, you and I talked once before then you were on my podcast, so we've seen each other.

Do you feel like a stranger to me, not the least. Mm-hmm. , you know, and so that's because I'm not afraid of you. Mm-hmm. , what the hell can you do to me over Zoom? That's true. You can press the off button. And, and that's as far as it goes. I could put

Erin

a filter on you,

Joan

. Right. And I gotta have a mustache or whatever you wanna do to me.

Okay. And so there's this fear of other people because of our family experience. Mm-hmm. , I remember the only time my father used the word love was when he said, we only do this because we love you. As an excuse almost well as an explanation. In other words, they never beat me up. I only got spanked once and I asked for it cuz he said, if you blow out the flame on the stove, I'm gonna spank you.

And of course I did. So he had to follow, I find out , right, but, but I wasn't allowed to wear makeup and I wasn't allowed to do do. My father was so afraid that I was gonna get laid at some point that he just super protected me, you know? You know, the rules that parents make up for kids has nothing to do with the child.

That has to do with what the parents are afraid of, but the kid doesn't have the wherewithal to understand that, right? Mm-hmm. , although my brother Stephan, who became a very successful businessman, and one day I said to him, how did you manage to do that? You had the same father, and, he said, well, I learned two words early on.

And that kept me sane, and I won't say them fully, but he said it was f you, , and so . So when my father would pick on him, he would say to himself, F you. and it allowed him to stay centered in himself. Oh, so he

Erin

had Yeah. A, a, a coping

Joan

mechanism. Yeah. Yes. It was a coping mechanism. Wow. But that didn't stop him from having to go to a shrink at some point.

Mm-hmm. , you know, just to make sense of, of his life, which was a smart thing to do. And I work with a lot of successful people, and the goal is to be a success and understand what peace of mind. Well, let's

Erin

talk about how you work with your clients. is there a first step, a uni, a first

Joan

step?

Everyone? Yeah. at first I send them a, questionnaire with a whole bunch of questions about their relationship with themselves, the relationship with their business, their relationship with their money, and what they're hoping to achieve. And that gives me an overall, you know, cuz I ask things like, are you afraid of making mistakes?

And you know, that sort of. and so that gives me a, a picture when I first meet with them and I see what the overall picture is. I say, what did your father do for a living? What did your mother do? Whether she worked or not, how many siblings did you have and where were you in the birth order?

Mm. Okay. A person who is the oldest of eight is very different from an only child. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And, when I say, what does your father do? What does your mother do? They usually gimme a story. And so that story is very helpful and I find out if one of the parents left early in their life, whether they got divorced, whether the parents fought or how they felt about each.

And so I see what the basis was. of a person's beginning. Mm-hmm. and even the men open up because they don't mind telling me their story. Mm-hmm. , they just don't know the feelings that go with it.

Erin

So they know what they're getting into and they go to see you. They know that they're gonna be digging

Joan

into see, well, it's, it's really interesting.

Every single person who becomes a client says, I listened to your podcast for the last three to six months and I should have called you sooner. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so by the time they're talking to me, they pretty much just wanna know, how much does it cost?

Erin

? . Nice. That's solid leadership right there. Perfect.

Joan

Yes. Right. but I can't cut to the end. I have to go through the process and see where they. And I have learned to listen in this very attuned way. So if someone uses a word like "and I always felt alone as a child", well, one of the main feelings that is acted out through money is aloneness.

And people think they're coming to me with money issues, but it's never about money. And they know I've said that at least a hundred times on my podcast. Right. So they know we're gonna go someplace else. Mm-hmm. . and if it's not about money, then what is it about? and I happen to be pretty intuitive after all these years.

Remember, I'm 81 years. I've been through enough some things to know that it's really hard to die and , it's,

what's the worst that can happen is you're not gonna like me. Well, there are a lot of people who don't like me, cuz I'm a very ballsy, broad mm-hmm. and I'm not your typical woman, so anyone who calls me knows what they're. Mm. Yeah. and they'll say to me, I have a lot of men say to me, I need to learn more about my feelings.

they're understanding that's missing. Mm-hmm. , and I assume

Erin

that this work translates into their personal relationships and their spiritual relationships. Like how do you work with them on those two? Or they just take those lessons?

Joan

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, and then like, I'm working with now and we're up to figuring out how to put his business together.

I've been an entrepreneur. Since the beginning, I taught school for a year after college. I sold great books of the Western world door to door sign here please. So I learned how to sell and I've never had a real job. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, in Hollywood you call that a real job. Oh, you've been, you've been around.

I have been there. Yeah. You know, that's not a real job. Okay. So , I've always been an entrepreneur. Before, I mean, I, in the 1980s I had a crystal business. I was the first one to sell crystals and minerals for healing and meditation nationwide, and I started out with $1,200 that I borrowed from a friend and built it to a business where in today's money I was bringing in close to $800,000 a year.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I went, Because I had no idea how to deal with all that stuff that I was schlepping along with me from forever. But I learned a lot. I went bankrupt on the earth plane. Why did that happen? Cause I didn't know how to manage cash flow. Mm-hmm. . And I would go to the bank and say, I've got a problem.

They'd lend me more money. Well, that's not what I needed, So, Even then, you know, the bankers thought it was cute that this woman was making all this money selling rocks. Well, yeah, I was . I didn't realize I had the marketing gene, right? So, and I truly believe at this moment in time that whatever you've been through and whatever you're going through is what you need to become who you are.

The problem is you don't find out what that. Until you're, at least in your eighties, , so you, unless you get some help . Well, no, no. Even, you know, people, I mean, I have a client who's selling a very big business. Mm-hmm. , and he has no idea who he is without that business. Mm-hmm. , . In other words, the business becomes, when you say the person and who are you, they'll tell you what they do.

Mm-hmm. . Right? They don't tell you who, they are. Mm. And that's what I wanna help people with. And in this group that I'm putting together, it is worse than hurting cats. Mm-hmm. . Cause every one of them is a leader. So of course they know what's best, Of course. And I've said to them, we've had two meetings so far and we're up to putting it on the circle platform and giving it a name.

And, I have to understand, and I thought to myself the other day, I can only do this cuz I'm a woman because I learned how to Had a wait for it to be recognized. So while, the men in the group are doing their chest beating, it's okay. Mm-hmm. , you know how, and I keep saying, and you know, introduce yourself and they always introduce themselves, the women too, with what they do.

Okay? Mm-hmm. . So I'm introducing myself as a meta physician. Who really loves mystical experiences and functioning in the business world. Hmm. Okay. Well that tells me it peaks someone's interest. Yes. What, what the heck is she talking about? ? Um, . But it's not what I do. It tells you how I see things. Ah, the way you see the world, okay.

Mm-hmm. , you know, and you know, I wanna know what your worldview is cause I know it's different from mine. Mm-hmm. . And that's why I like to ask questions. Mm-hmm. is how do you see the world? if there is no right or wrong, which is my belief, there only is what is. Mm-hmm. , what are you seeing as about yourself?

That's right or wrong? Which is just the story you've made up. Mm-hmm. . Interesting.

Erin

Is it dangerous? A little bit to ask people about the worldview, these.

Joan

Only if you are concerned about the answer, , if you're not able to stay neutral. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I, I walk my dog every day.

We walk two miles in this park by my house. Mm-hmm. . And there's a couple of old guys who walk their dogs, and one of them who's actually older than I am, I hardly ever meet people who are older than I am. . it became clear fairly quickly that he was a Trumper. Mm-hmm. , which is the opposite of what I am.

Mm-hmm. , and yet we've become good friends. I care about his health. you know, he's 85. And you know, and his little go and you know, you see he's lower weight and he had an experience where he was on the floor for two days and no one, you know, all these things. So I just have to care about them as humans.

Mm-hmm. , they don't ask me what I believe that's fine. Mm-hmm. . It was real clear the first time I asked him how he thought about something. , I live in Santa Fe where it's a pretty liberal city. So when I meet someone on the Southern New Mexico that has the people who. Don't wanna certify elections and stuff like that.

you know, it's, but you know, everybody just is who they are. And we live in this dualistic reality where there's plus and minus down to the atomic level. So of course there's gonna be an opposite point of view. Well, if I take the attitude of wondering how they got to where they are then I have to ask them questions.

Most people are afraid to ask questions about the other person. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. You, what do you have for breakfast? People are afraid to ask questions like that. it's as if they're afraid something's gonna happen. Well, I've learned over. There's nothing that can happen.

Erin

. Well, yeah.

Joan

Agreed.

Erin

but it can become uncomfortable depending

Joan

on the, but also I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to share something about myself that someone else might feel ashamed of, and I'm not afraid to tell you that I've done that.

Mm-hmm. , I came from a family where I learned how to be a better. My parents never saved anything until way into their seventies or eighties. And then my brothers had to help them financially. Well, my father was a compulsive debtor. How could I have learned anything else?

As a kid, I wanted to save money. And every time I saved it, they would borrow it from me and not pay it back. So what good was it to save when someone's gonna take it from me.? But I'm not afraid to tell you that I went to Debtor's Anonymous or Overeaters Anonymous. I'm not afraid to tell you anything that I've done that someone else might think is wrong. Now, is that natural to me? No. I had to work through a whole lot of stuff.

Mm-hmm. . But that

Erin

is great because it invites people to kind of meet you we're, you know, halfway. Yes. And so when you project a certain energy, people will project it back generally, right?

Yes. So

Joan

it's what's what happens? And I'll go first. Mm-hmm. , you know, I'll go first. What, you know, what have I got to lose? and also it helps you feel more connect. . Oh, for sure. When you're honest about yourself with another person, that's when you feel connected. Mm. That is

Erin

so true.

That's something I've had to learn myself. I tend to be a fairly guarded person and when someone is just super open with me, it's so refreshing and it just makes you Yeah. It's just a completely different experience, to know that, you feel unjudged and seen. So I think that's

Joan

very important.

Judge, not me, shall not be judged. That's one of my main rules. Well,

Erin

I wanna talk about the word prosperity and you know, I love that word. To me it's a very joyful word. It's a lot more than about like, making money and, and things like that. So what does prosperity

Joan

mean to you? It's interesting because when I first chose Prosperity Place was in 1990.

Before everybody had overused that word, but it became part of my, my brand, so I had to stick with it. To me, prosperity is about fullness. When you can feel full about yourself that you're doing the best you can. Given who you are at this moment in. That you're willing to take care of yourself so that you can be healthy enough to live your dreams.

And that's a big deal that a lot of people are not doing. So for me, the word means is a fullness, it's and to me, without love, there is no prosperity. Mm-hmm. without caring and compassion. In other words, to me prosperity can be a feeling as much as anything else. And you know, people use the word abundance or manifest and the abundance and manifest are two words that wealthy people rarely use.

Cause they live. and wealthy people are not necessarily prosperous in my mind. Mm-hmm. , because can be very ultra frugal and about themselves. In other words, come at me. You know what do you got? ? You know? Mm-hmm. . It was like, I'm just not afraid to give you as much as I can.

And for me, that's a lot of words cuz I'm a talker and I just need to find out about you. That's what turns me on. Mm-hmm. is when meet someone like you and from the first minute, I was asking you questions about you and I wanted, I didn't know wanna, I wanted to know a little bit about your business cuz I thought it was interesting.

And people just haven't learned how to be okay with people no matter who they are. Mm-hmm. . would

Erin

you care to diagnose some of like Elon Musk, like, what's going on with him? Well, first of all,

Joan

he's got Asperger's. Mm-hmm. . I do have heard. So, he says that out loud. So his ability to feel.

Maybe limited. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And obviously he's got a talent for making money. Mm-hmm. , which, I, like people who can write a symphony that's to me amazing. Or can even draw something that looks like something, which is something I can't do. , , But he's an angry man and his lack of empathy shows mm-hmm.

in everything he does. Mm-hmm. , but that's who he is. that's what he was given. All of our brains are wired differently, so I can't judge how you think or how you behave. Cause your, brain is wired. However, it is. But, who you are and how you behave is really none of my business. I can only pay attention to who I am and how I behave.

Mm-hmm. . And to try to, for me, learning to be a person who emits the energy of love rather than, anger. You know, and I had a lot of anger I had to get rid of. Mm-hmm. and, so it's a decision, you make a decision as to how you wanna be in the world. Yeah. Well that,

Erin

brings me too, cuz you mentioned, I think you said once that peace was a feeling and prosperity is a feeling.

And I know, you know, when we take the word love, like that's not just a feeling, but it's actions. It's what we do. And is that similar with prosperity? It's not just,

Joan

Passive is an active, active thing, and everybody will have a different definition. Someone might think that you have to have a billion dollars to be prosperous.

Mm-hmm. , I used to love the stories that I would read about a janitor who put kids through college. Mm-hmm. , um, a janitor who couldn't have been making much money. Right. Yet he had this idea of putting kids through college. And he did it to me. He was prosperous because to me, the prosperity comes when I do good for someone without, feeling sorry for them, you know, where I help a person feel better, even for a minute.

That to me is a prosperous feeling. Yeah. And I do not believe, for me, having a, non-profit organization works. I don't wanna have to beg for money. and there's a whole kind of personality that goes into the, non-profit business, same with you, but to me, the richness of life.

Is my relationships with people. Someone said to Warren Buffet one time on a show I saw he was on with, bill Gates said, how do measure a person's wealth? This was Warren Buffet and he said, I measure a person's wealth by how much love they have in their life. That is beautiful.

Erin

Yeah, you know, the conversations that I am having with women around wealth, Because sometimes it does have a bad name because of some of the more public misuses of wealth, that it is a way for us to love the people that we care about, to be nurturing and to be generous and to be supportive. Like when we have.

Well, if we use our businesses to create wealth, it's not, it's not a selfish act. That can be a very giving and supportive act to focus on, on wealth creation, right?

Joan

there's a fellow that I walk with almost every day who lives on the other side of my neighborhood. We just met by chance one day at the park, and he's 70 years old.

And what is a retired elementary school teacher? One of the kindest people I've ever. He, volunteers at the food bank every week, and, he and his wife saved enough money that they're living a comfortable retirement. They're very frugal. and I said to him one day, you know, you're so generous.

And he said, how am I generous? I said, you're so generous of spirit. Mm. Nice. Mm-hmm. , and that matters. Mm-hmm. . Absolutely. Uh, to me, a person is prosperous if they're generous of spirit. You can give money to people and not be prosperous and not be generous of spirit. You're, assuaging your own guilt by giving money.

and to me, sometimes I give money, sometimes I'll send people to the homeless shelter because they're an, are an awful lot of people now who stand their business is standing on the corner and begging for money. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you know, it's being willing. To feel a person's energy.

And for me, the prosperity is feeling like I belong. And even if everybody else in the group or These high testosterone leaders, , I'm, I'm okay.

Erin

. That is beautiful. Well, I, I think that's a wonderful place to wrap up. I love that, you know, about the richness and fullness that prosperity, represents and that for people to think about it.

Way. So as we wrap up, I'd love to know, we talked about this briefly, you know, we talk about, building a business that can be sold someday here. And, uh, so I'd like to know, are you building a business that you hope to sell

Joan

someday? Well, it's interesting cuz I asked you the question when you were on my, show, how much does revenue does someone have to be generating in order to sell a business?

Mm-hmm. , so, I got a number in my head. Mm-hmm. . And then I said, well, do, I want to have to focus on that? Mm. And the answer was no. Mm-hmm. , because in my mind I'd have to work awful hard to do that. But I have no idea what tomorrow is and if this community I put together, so like, because I have that number in my head as I'm putting the together and I'm deciding what to charge for certain things, I do the math and I say, well, In order to have a million dollars in revenue, what does it have to look like?

Mm-hmm. , I don't believe in wishing for a million dollars. Mm-hmm. , I believe in saying, how much energy do I have to put out at 81 years of age? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. in order to get to that point. Mm-hmm. . and so I understand what's necessary or what the number is. But I can't imagine why, who's gonna come along and say, Joan, I wanna take over your business,

You know, I mean, there's just no way of knowing that. Mm-hmm. , there's no way of knowing how I would structure it so that if it continues past a retirement date, which is beyond my comprehension, You know, I can't imagine it. I just needed to know that number from you. Mm-hmm. . So I didn't have an unrealistic idea.

And of course, 10 years from now, it's gonna be more than a million dollars. Uh,

Erin

10 years from now might be Yes. . well that's, well, you know, we talked about d you know, also just this building a business that can scale. Is the foundation of building one that can sell. So you don't have to think about the, you know, you can think about the process, not just the, ultimate end goal, but

Joan

Yeah.

Right. And I, I mean, I know people who have communities now. That's the big thing, where they're generating. A hundred thousand dollars a month, okay. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But, I don't know if I wanna have that many people that I'm taking care of. Mm-hmm. . And just because you're generating a hundred thousand dollars doesn't mean you're making a profit of a hundred thousand, correct?

That is correct. And, and how many people do you have to manage? When I had my crystal business, I had five employees, and, I discovered, Employees can be like children and they just wanna ask questions all day long. And I didn't know how to manage children because I never had children. So, you know, there, there are so many things that come into play, but I love your, you know, very realistic approach and okay, this is what you have to think about.

And, and if you don't wanna think about these things, then you probably won't sell your business. Mm-hmm. . That's fair.

Erin

That's fair. So as we wrap up, Joan, is there, something you'd like to promote to the audience? Something that, uh, you'd like to offer?

Joan

Okay, so I have a book, uh, an award-winning book called build Your Money Muscles. Nine Simple Exercises for Improving Your Relationship With Money, and it talks about.

Both the internal things. You had the emotional piece. It was written like 15 years ago, but when I first introduced this whole emotional piece and what do you have to do on the inside and the outside? And the last chapter is actually connect, you know, cause I knew back then that was important.

So if you would like to download the pdf, just go to prosperity place.com/. Free B Y M M and, you know, with your email address you'll get an email telling you how to download it.

Erin

Awesome. We will have that in the show notes and so I know we can, they can find you@prosperityplace.com. Where else can they find you on the interwebs?

Joan

Anywhere podcasts? Well, actually I'm the only Joan Sattin in the whole world, so is

Erin

that true? Soon we, we get off this, I'm going to Google that

Joan

and uh, As far as we have looked and looked and looked and looked and we've maintained our uniqueness. And there's, a Sadkin family in Russia. Mm-hmm. . Um, I actually have a, Facebook friend with a name of. Soin, but I have not found another Joan Soin. Okay, so just do Joan Soin, S O D K I N, and you'll find my podcast.

And I've done lots of interviews with other people and I've been doing this stuff. I've been online since 1995 and I've never stopped talking. So there's a lot of stuff out there. And

Erin

an early podcaster too,

Joan

correct? Yes, very much so.

Erin

Yeah. Yeah. So that is awesome. Well, thank you. This has been such a joy, Joan.

Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your wisdom,

Joan