In this episode I learn more about Coeliac disease from my guest China.  She discusses the challenges of navigating a gluten-free diet and her experience in adapting to a new way of eating. China now runs a highly successful gluten-free bakery and café and we discuss practical cooking tips, the gluten-free substitutes available and why eating gluten-free doesn’t mean compromise on quality and taste. China highlights the importance of resilience and finding joy in cooking and baking, even with dietary limitations. 

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Kitchen Reflections

03:08 Exploring Gluten-Free Cooking

05:54 China's Journey with Coeliac Disease

08:49 Navigating Food Labels and Hidden Gluten

12:08 Cooking and Baking Gluten-Free

14:56 Building a Gluten-Free Business

18:05 The Importance of Community and Support

20:53 Mental Health and Gluten-Free Living

24:08 Thermomix Experience and Cooking Innovations

26:56 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations

so welcome China. Thank you for joining us. How are you today?

I'm good. Thank you. How are you?

Yeah, I'm good. I've had a really nice restful weekend eating lots of good food. So I'm feeling great. So firstly, I want to say thank you for joining us. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on my podcast. And I think where I would just like to start is can you tell us all a little bit about your journey relating to gluten-free eating?

Good.

Yeah, of course. So I didn't really know what gluten-free was before eight years ago, apart from a fad diet. And I got diagnosed with Coeliac disease, which I can explain a little bit, but I basically, my whole life changed. My whole diet changed, my social life changed, and it all came down to a diagnosis of something that I'd never even heard of.

So that was a bit wild, but yes. Coeliac disease for anyone who doesn't know, it's an autoimmune condition, in very, very basic terms, I'm not going to try and get medical. It means that my immune system treats gluten as something that it needs to attack or a bit like a bacteria or something like that where it would attack it to get rid of it. The mistake's gluten for that.

If I eat gluten, my immune system attacks itself and it's not great.

So

let's go back eight years then so that we can have an understanding. Cause there may be people who are listening to us who don't understand what the symptoms might be. Like what, what was the process of you identifying that there was an issue in inverted commas.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

So I was in my second year of uni. So I mean, my diet probably wasn't that great anyway. But yeah, so I was in my second year of uni and I started getting, it progressed over time. It was lots of random symptoms to start with. So I had a lot of gastrointestinal symptoms, but I also, just, was exhausted all the time. And as it got worse, my hair started falling out and I felt nauseous all day, every day.

No comment.

wow.

to the point where I didn't want to eat anything, I would rely on eating comfort food. So I lived above a McDonald's or just nearly above a McDonald's. So I would literally revert to eating a Big Mac and chips and chocolate and lots of foods that actually had a gluten in, which so they exasperated the problem. So yeah, basically this happened over the course of about eight months. I didn't want to leave the flat. I didn't want to go out. I didn't want to do anything.

Mm-hmm.

And then, yeah, after about eight months, my mum just said, you need to see a doctor. And I did. And I was actually really lucky because I was diagnosed within two weeks of seeing the doctor, which is really rare. So usually when you speak to someone who's diagnosed, it might have taken years to get a diagnosis. So I was actually really lucky.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, nothing happens quickly at the minute, does it, when you go to the doctor? So two weeks. So what was the process of diagnosis? Again, just simplifying it for people in case it could be for them.

So for me at the time it was a blood test. So the doctor pretty much, I she knew what it was, but she did a bit of a blanket blood test, which included the Coeliac disease test. And then within two weeks I got the results back. then that's, I think nowadays that can be done as the whole diagnosis, but they do also, or at least I did, I had to go for an endoscopy, no, gastroscopy. So I had to have a camera down my throat, which was not pleasant.

which basically they look at the lining of your stomach and there's these little, your stomach is covered in microscopic little fingers called villi and when you are Coeliac and you've been eating gluten they basically get worn down to the point where your stomach stops absorbing nutrients because that's what these little fingers do.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so

do the fingers grow back? Okay, all right, so you got your diagnosis, you know, really quickly, which is amazing. What did that immediately mean for you in relation to food?

Yes.

Yes.

So immediately I was completely lost because my actual diagnosis appointment was all of two minutes long and it was kind of your Coeliac, you can't eat gluten and kind of go out into the world and deal with that. And I had no idea what it was. didn't understand the severity of it. I just was clueless. So for me, it was a matter of just Googling and I had to go and look at the Coeliac UK, which is the charity.

Off you pop.

to basically go through all their articles and just read and read and read and do my own research. But it meant the first time I went to the supermarket, I went to Waitrose and I did the worst thing and I walked down the biscuit aisle and I checked every single packet of things that I loved and obviously saw it all got wheat in so I couldn't eat it. And it was the most heartbreaking thing. And at the time...

It's crazy to think that this was only eight years ago, but there was literally one end cap of gluten-free and that's all there was. So in the eight years that I've been diagnosed, we've gone to now having full free-from aisles and fridges and freezers and it's so much better. But yeah, so I just stood in my chair and cried and then moved on from there really. And yeah, it was just about doing my own research and educating myself really on how to. The Big Mac stopped, yeah. All convenience food stopped.

So the Big Mac stopped.

For a time, anything ready-made stopped because I had to re-educate myself on food and what it's made of and basically how to read product labels, how to read allergen labels and quickly see if I can eat something or not. So it was just a lot of education and trial and error as well. I've glutened myself a lot in those first few months.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

There was a horrific incident with breaded ham where I didn't even think about the fact that the breading on the ham was breaded, didn't even think about it. Yeah, it was just ham. That was awful. So yeah, it was just educating myself really and trying to learn

with bread.

I mean, that's really interesting, isn't it? It's called breaded ham, but I can understand how easily you would just overlook that because it's just something that's part and parcel of what you've been eating. Did you find or do you find, I think this has probably changed given what you've just said, but do you find that there's hidden wheat in foods?

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

gravy granules, certain crisps, lots of random foods where you'd think why on earth would there be flour or wheat or whatever in that, there's no need. And nowadays it's used a lot as a filler to make things cheaper to produce. It's also used in things like flavourings and stuff like that as a thickener because it's the cheapest, wheat flour is the cheapest way to thicken something basically. And there are so many great alternatives that

Mm-hmm.

Yep, completely.

aren't wheat flour, but they're more expensive so know they're sort of bigger food producers they're always going to go for whatever's cheapest so you do get hidden gluten in that you wouldn't think to check but nowadays I just check everything I don't eat anything even sometimes if I've eaten something before because ingredients can change and sometimes they put an allergen update sticker on and sometimes they don't so sometimes I still check things over and over and over again that I've already eaten

Mm-hmm.

almost a bit like a compulsion almost because I need to make sure that yeah that there's no gluten in there.

Yeah, will you?

Cause I'm guessing that you don't want to have the after effects of whatever that is. Yeah.

Yeah, so

my personal sort of reaction to gluten, mine is mainly gastrointestinal, but it can last anywhere up to 24 hours. The pain is unbearable, but some people have different symptoms. So some people it's more like a mental symptom. So things like brain fog. Some people can develop things like stroke-like symptoms, all sorts of, it affects people differently. yeah, Coeliac disease is

Mm-hmm.

quite a broad umbrella I think as far as symptoms, but for me it's mainly gastrointestinal, but I can be in bed for a day afterwards. It's really not good. So it's not one of those things where I can just have a little bit. I have to avoid it at all costs.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah,

okay, so you've mentioned a couple of things. I want to talk about the foods that you do eat now and how you incorporate them. But before we do that, can you just clarify Natasha's law because I think this is really important.

Yeah, so Natasha's law came in because of a lady who tragically died due to her allergy. She was eating pre-packed food and they'd not declared an allergen on there. So she passed away, unfortunately. So her family started a

which is doing really, really great work here in the UK to kind of promote allergy awareness and help companies to make sure that they're in line with up-to-date food regulations.

So Natasha's law basically came in to make a lot stricter pre-packaged food and the declaration of allergens on there of the top 14 allergens. So it basically makes it a lot easier for people with allergies to read a label and to know that what they're eating is safe.

Amazing.

Mm-hmm.

And it's about that protection, isn't it? And ensuring that you feel safe in the knowledge that the information provided on a label is true and correct.

Mmm.

so you told us that you're eating all the foods that you probably shouldn't have been eating pre-diagnosis, that you then spent time in the supermarket aisle being a little bit upset about the things you could no longer eat. What did you do to change what you were eating and how did you incorporate this new way of life into your world?

Mm.

Yeah.

So I started going right back to basics. So I started looking at, the foods that I'd been taught to cook growing up, because when you're at uni, I'd been taught to cook from scratch. Both my parents were really good at kind of teaching us how to throw together meals with whatever you've got in the cupboard.

But when you're at uni and you're surrounded by convenience food and you're having late nights, you fall into that pattern of you're not really cooking and you spend too much money on takeout and that kind of thing. I actually had to go, okay, well, I know how to cook from scratch, so why am I not doing it? So actually made me really look at what I was eating and why I was eating it, which was quite a big thing for me as well.

Mm-hmm.

It was just looking at, so let's say my favourite meals going, okay, how can I make this gluten free? And actually nine times out of 10, it was so simple. But because I was so used to buying everything pre-made, it was almost like I made it more complicated in my head than it was. So let's say a spaghetti bolognese. You know, if you're going to go buy a pre-made spaghetti bolognese, it's obviously going to have gluten in because the spaghetti has gluten in.

Mm-hmm.

But if you make a spaghetti bolognese from scratch, the actual ragu of the bolognese is naturally gluten-free. If you don't use a pre-made sauce, if you make it completely from scratch, it's naturally gluten-free. It's a meat with vegetables and a tomato-based sauce, that's it. And then you just switch out your pasta for gluten-free pasta and it's good to go. So it was things like that where it was actually going right back to basics and going, okay, well, don't know, mac and cheese, for instance.

Yep. Yep.

Well, the cheese sauce I've actually always made with corn flour anyway, so it was naturally gluten free and I didn't even know it. And again, I've made the sauce instead of buying it from a jar and then switched out the pasta and I've got gluten free mac and cheese. So little things like that where just actually going right back to basics and looking at what's in my food and making it from scratch was a game changer.

So when you were at university, I'm guessing you were sharing a house or a flat and those sorts of scenarios. What were the people around you like in relation to this new way of eating?

So I was actually really lucky in that I only shared accommodation in my first year. So in my second and third year, I lived on my own, which I think was really important because it gave me complete control over my own kitchen space. And I know that I've seen a lot of information online from people who have children who are going to uni that are Coeliac and they're worried about allergies and things like that. And a lot of it is just kind of trying to sit down with your prospective flatmates or whatever and say, look, I have a severe

Okay.

Nice.

Mm-hmm.

it's not an allergy but an allergy to this food. This is all of my stuff in this cupboard. I'd really appreciate if we could keep all this separate, having like a separate cupboard, a separate shelf in the fridge. It's just about trying to communicate to people the severity of it I think and it doesn't always work and people aren't always going to be receptive to it but it's just about minimizing the chance of a reaction wherever you can and shared accommodation is one of those things where

Mm-hmm.

You kind have to hope it's not forever, especially if it's with people that don't understand or don't want to understand. So you kind of have to hope that's not long term and you just have to make do with what you've got for the time being. But yeah, I was quite lucky in that actually I was in my own flat, so I did have complete control of my own space and I could ensure that no gluten was even brought into my flat, let alone in my cooking space.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah. And

you've mentioned corn flour. That's obviously a substitute for a wheat-based flour. What other substitutes have you got? Do you use? Would you recommend to people who are, you know, in this arena and area as well?

mm-hmm yeah

So, I mean, flour's alone, it's so easy now to go to the supermarket and get your self-raising and plain flour in the free-from aisle. It's always a blend of things like rice and tapioca and potato and that sort of thing, so they've pre-blended it for you. Cornflour is the best thing for sauces. I've always made sauces for cornflour anyway, so that is not a big deal to me at all. You can use it as a substitute in baking and that kind of thing, it's a bit more difficult. But as far as things like...

pasta again you can do a straight swap for your regular pasta just for gluten free. Bread is there's lots of bread products nowadays they're not they're not always particularly great when it comes to bread unfortunately yeah gluten free brands are doing better so a lot of the big bread and bakery brands are really putting a lot of funding now into developing their free from ranges people like Warburton's, Genius that kind of thing they're all really really kind of

Yeah.

trying to churn out these products that are as close to the real thing as you can get. So it's getting better. But yeah, a lot of that again, straight swap. Most of the trouble you come to is with your ready-made food, to be honest. So if you're trying to make food anyway from scratch, you've got complete control over everything that goes in that food.

Mm-hmm.

So to what extent, if at all, do you incorporate any ready-made, pre-made foods?

So I tend to eat, I'd say maybe a quarter to a third of my diet is ready-made. there are free from brands that produce ready-made food. So you can get ready meals. And again, with the supermarkets getting a lot better nowadays, you can go and get your pizza, chips, onion rings, all these different things that are dedicated free from. So the range is expanding.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

and I try not to eat ready-made food. A lot of it for me is convenience with my job and everything else. It's having the time to make food, but...

So

China, who, which brands do you like, would you recommend and why?

So if you're gonna go for like a ready meal, I would say Kirstie's, it's one of the only ones out there to be honest, Kirstie's, but everything's always, I believe it's always gluten free and dairy free. They do have a range of vegan stuff as well. So they're great if you need something in the freezer that you can just quickly check in the microwave when you're on the go. Kirstie's is great one.

For bread and bakery products, my personal favourite is Warburton's. I think they're really, really sort of working hard on their gluten-free range, on their range of products as well. It's always getting bigger. And for quality, their Tiger Bread is my favourite bread. It's the closest thing I've found to bread, really. But as far as of like biscuits and that kind of thing, any supermarket really now, they all do them. I don't really have a favourite when it comes to that sort of thing, but yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Because you make

them, right?

I make them,

that's a great segue.

Because you've mentioned baking and the other reason why China is here is not only has she sort of had a diagnosis of being Coeliac, you have moved that into a whole new arena, haven't you? So tell us a little bit about what you do as well.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Okay, so if we go back seven and a half years, freshly diagnosed, I didn't think I'd ever be able to eat out again. And I went to my first gluten-free cafe and my mum and I went together and it was absolutely dreadful. Everything that we ate was absolutely dreadful. You could have thrown the cake through a window. It was rock hard. It was just awful. And I remember going away and thinking,

Mm-hmm.

this can't be it, surely this can't be it. And every time we baked at home it would be really good and everyone would enjoy it and no one would know the difference and we couldn't understand why that disconnect was between home baking and what you buy when you're out and about. So we decided, I say maybe early 2021, so we're just coming out of the pandemic really, still in this little tail end of the pandemic.

And we were all very much in that mindset of, you this big thing has happened to the whole world. What are we going to do about it? Are we going to start doing something that we love? And we'd always loved baking, my mum and I. So we thought, right, let's see if we can start making gluten-free cake. And we originally wanted to sell online. So we were just going to do like poster boxes. And again, that was kind of a post-pandemic world where you were scared we were going to go back into another lockdown. So we were like, how can we make a business that's...

Mm-hmm.

going to thrive even if we go back into a lockdown. So to start with, it was just postal and we just did four flavours of cake and they were little mini loaf cakes and we sent them out to kind of all our friends and family and then we started selling them online and everything. And then we did our first farmers market locally and realised, hang on a second, can take the same amount in a day at a farmers market that we might take in two weeks online. Why aren't we doing this?

And it's called, what's it called?

bakery counter and we also sell secondhand books which is my other passion outside of cake is books. yeah and it's just it's been an absolute crazy whirlwind since then really of gluten-free cake, sandwiches, coffees and everything else.

Okay.

So

again, you've touched on a couple of things that I would like to try and pull out. Firstly though, how does it feel to have gone from having a diagnosis that made you cry in the supermarket aisle through to running a very successful cafe and bakery business?

bit weird. I do have these moments actually in the shop if I'm kind of doing my little admin work or whatever and I'll be sat in the corner and I get to sit back and watch the shop and watch customers come in and see them enjoying the products and enjoying their coffee and maybe someone's traveled half an hour or 45 minutes just to come and see us because they're Coeliac or whatever and I actually get to sit back in those moments and go wow look at this.

Ha ha!

thing that we've made, this is great, you for people just like me, who often go out and have so much anxiety when it comes to eating out and putting your trust in a stranger's hands to produce a meal that's not gonna give you a horrible reaction, there's a lot of anxiety and stress around that and there's a lot of pre-planning and everything else that goes into it. for someone to be able to walk into a shop like mine and know that they can pick absolutely anything, that there's no cross-contamination risk.

people just like me.

There's no kind of someone that doesn't know in the back actually that it's quite severe and they use the same tongs or they use the same... There's none of that. They can come in and have whatever they want and not worry and share it with their family and friends. That's huge for people with allergies or anything like that.

Well, it's interesting because what you've just said actually is what I wanted to ask you about. It feels like that there is a fear slash anxiety. That was the word you just used. For people who have an allergy, who are Coeliac, who need to be gluten free, there does seem to be that inherent fear wherever they go. that fair?

massive, massively, yeah. It's, I think because you know how severe it is. So my, can have a reaction from a single breadcrumb. I can be incredibly poorly. So the knowledge that when you go out, you're putting your body and your health in the hands of a stranger who might not really understand or might not care about the severity of allergens. And there's a lot of bad rep.

when it comes to gluten free as well. People who choose to be gluten free as a fad diet or an attempt to lose weight or something bizarre, which is a whole other story. there's a lot of bad reputation if you say that you're gluten free. The amount of wait staff or hospitality staff that I've had that have gone, right, okay. When I've told them that I'm gluten free and it's like, no, this is serious, this isn't a choice. This is something that I have to do for my health.

Mm-hmm.

I think it's really interesting as well, because as I'm sitting here, I've obviously been to your cafe, that's how I know you. I have eaten a number of your cakes and I think there are two things I want to say about that and I'd like your thoughts on it. One, when I first walked in, I was like, oh, it's gluten-free. Okay? Two, after I'd eaten said gluten-free cake, I was like, oh my word, this is so good, you can't tell. So I think...

Yep. Yep.

You also have that barrier perhaps, I don't know, what do you think, that people think it's not going to be as good?

Absolutely. The amount of times I'll get people come in and go, well, have you got anything that's not gluten free? Honestly. Or have you got anything that's not dairy free? Because that's another thing obviously with dairy free as well. And it's kind of like, no, but if you just try this thing, you'll find that you like it and that actually does no difference because that's why we do what we do so that you can't tell the difference. So we get it all the time. And that's why we kind of as a shop.

Mm-hmm.

We don't have gluten-free, dairy-free, plasted absolutely everywhere because it does put people off. But we now have a really good, like a really good group of local, regular customers who aren't gluten-free and aren't dairy-free, but they love our coffee, they love our cake and our sandwiches, and they come every week. Some of them come every day because they just love it as a product, irrelevant of the fact that it's free from anything. And that's the aim with the shop.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly. So forgive me if I'm being a little bit thick, but why are you dairy free as well?

So my mum is dairy intolerant. Yeah, yeah, so everything we do is always gluten-free, dairy-free, and also soya-free.

Okay, just to add another level. Okay.

So let's go to home. I know you don't live with mum anymore, but when you get together and you're preparing eating foods, how does that combo work with?

Mm-hmm.

It's actually surprisingly easy. think because we, so if we were at my house for instance, I know that I don't have any gluten in my house so I don't have to worry about that. The only thing I would have to worry about for my mum for instance is dairy and a lot of things, the swaps are so easy. A lot of them are straight swaps so you don't have to worry about adding in extra things because you've swapped out.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Again, a lot of it's really easy nowadays. It didn't used to be, I don't think. And my mum has been dairy intolerant a lot longer than I've been Coeliac. So she's seen the sort of, some of really awful dairy free stuff that's come through. But nowadays you can pretty much just go, right, here's the shopping list of what I need. I need cheese, pasta, whatever. And you can go, right, I'll grab gluten free pasta, dairy free cheese. And it's, yeah, it's pretty much a straight swap nowadays.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so let's think about people who might be listening to us in the sense that what advice would you give to somebody perhaps who's just finding out or under thinks that they're gluten free or have something more serious. Again, I don't know if that's the right frame term, sorry. What advice would you give to them and what sort of tips could you provide?

Mm-hmm.

I think is keep trying if you're trying to get a diagnosis from a GP or a doctor or whatever is to keep trying because you can be kind of fobbed off as it's IBS, it's stress, it's this. If you think there's genuinely something the matter and you've done your research keep trying for a diagnosis but at the same time you kind of have to follow excuse the pun you have to follow your gut in that

Mm-hmm.

Sorry.

If you know that something makes you feel unwell and you know that taking out your diet makes you feel better, irrelevant of what someone might say from a medical perspective, you should take that out your diet. And I have it a lot with people who've said they've had a Coeliac test and they're not Coeliac, but gluten makes them really poorly. And to me, like, well, don't eat gluten then.

that will don't eat gluten.

You you might not be Coeliac and that's absolutely fine, but you might have a really bad intolerance and being diagnosed with an intolerance is almost

You know, you might not be Coeliac and that's absolutely fine, but you might have a really bad intolerance. Being bad at intolerance is almost-

impossible sometimes as well. So for me, it's if you know something makes you unwell, stop eating it. There are some loopholes with that. you're trying to get a Coeliac diagnosis, you do need to keep eating gluten until you are diagnosed. Yeah, because when you stop eating gluten, your villi, the fingers I told you about earlier, they start to heal.

Is that right?

Mm.

and that's how they can tell that you are Coeliac is these kind of like corroded fingers. So if you're seeking a Coeliac diagnosis, you do have to keep eating gluten. But if you've been told you're not Coeliac, but you're still being poorly, that's when you can go, okay, well, maybe I just need to stop eating gluten. I might not be Coeliac, but I know it makes me poorly. So I'm gonna make the executive decision to stop eating it.

Okay.

Okay. And let's go back to eight years ago, pre diagnosis to now, you know, how's life changed into for you, China, in terms of how you feel, what you've achieved, you know, being Coeliac, what does that actually mean now?

Mm-hmm.

Oh God, I mean it's massively different. If you'd told me eight years ago that not only would I have a diagnosis, it would completely change my life, my social life, my ability to go out and do things that are normal, you know, to stop at a service station on long journey and grab a sandwich, that sort of thing, I would have been mind blown. But if you'd then told me within eight years, I would have started a business, an online business that grew into a physical business that now has a shop and everything else and is just kind of getting bigger and bigger.

by the day, I think I would have just been absolutely mind blown. I probably would laughed at you and told you that you were lying. Yeah, I'd have been like, I'm not sure about that. I think you've got the wrong girl. So yeah, my life is massively different and to be doing something that I'm really passionate about that I know affects people who are just like me is incredibly fulfilling, I think. And when I do get a chance to sit down and think about that, it does make me feel like, oh, I'm doing something actually that's...

Yeah, what are you talking about, Sam?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

to some people it's just coffee and cake and I guess it is just coffee and cake but to people who are like me or who have severe allergies it's not just coffee and cake it can sometimes be a matter of life and death you know eating something that you can't eat so it is actually a lot bigger than that and I think it's it's weird sometimes to think of it that way because I think I can be quite

It's not just a copy and paste. It can sometimes be a matter of life and death. You that you can't do. So, it is actually a lot bigger than that. And I think it's weird sometimes to think of it that way because...

not self-deprecating, but I definitely don't give myself the worth of things that I achieve. I'm very much someone who likes to sit in the background and, yeah, this thing has happened. So I think to be able to sit back and go, no, you're doing something that's actually quite important to people. That's huge.

But I definitely don't give myself the worth of things that I achieve.

Yeah,

I think humility is a good thing. So, that's the word I think you're looking for, maybe, because I think it is, and I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. Let's just go back to something else that you also said. You said that some of the symptoms people can experience would be sort of a mental sort of...

Yeah, humility. Yeah.

Thank you.

scenario as well. Again, I can't think of the word to sort of pinpoint it. To me, it feels like mentally you're in a different, probably in a different head space as well from eating better, your body feeling better. Can you talk about that a little bit? Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Mm.

Mmm.

Yeah, so I think especially when you're first diagnosed, you mentally see it as this huge constraint on your life. Everything is reduced to what can I eat and when can I eat. So when I was first kind of going through it all, it was I have to take snacks with me absolutely everywhere. I have to take a pack up with me. Doesn't matter where I'm going or how long I'm going for. If for some reason a plan changes and I then I'm not following the plan in my head.

Mm-hmm.

am I going to be able to eat somewhere or am I going to have to wait hours and hours and hours till I'll be able to eat food. So it was things like I would take snacks everywhere with me and it was just it's just anxiety. It really is. And I've met so many people who are quite fresh with their diagnosis in like the first year. And they've told me, you know, I've been quite depressed and I've been anxious and it just seems like a roadblock. It seems like someone said, no, you can't go out and eat all the foods you used to like. You can't just

really is and I've met so many people who are quite fresh with their diagnosis in like the first year and they told me you I've been quite depressed and I've shit and it just seems like a roadblock. It seems like someone said no, you can't go out and eat all the food you used to like, can't just

walk into a restaurant and sit down and expect to be able to eat. You can't

walk into a restaurant and sit down and expect to be able to eat. You can't.

have your favourite takeaways. can't, you know, and that's a big part of culture, I think, especially with younger generations, but also just in the UK, like food is a massive thing for socialising. And even if that's going to the pub and having a beer, which you can't now have because it's not gluten free, you know, all those little things, it really impacts your social life, which is massive for your mental health. So I think.

Yeah.

Mm.

I think it's, yeah, it's being able to kind of sit back and go, okay, this big thing has happened, but I'm not gonna let it get on top of me. And I'm actually gonna try and find a solution and try and find changes that I can make instead of sitting in it and stewing in it, which I think you're allowed to do for a little while. And I definitely did, but you've got to be able to then go, right, this is the rest of my life. This isn't something, there's no cure. The only treatment for it is a gluten-free diet. There's no magic pill you can take. So you have to be able to get

being able to kind of sit back and go, okay, this big thing has happened, but I'm not gonna let it get on top of me, and I'm actually gonna try and find a solution and try and find changes that I can make instead of sitting in it and stewing in it, which I think we allowed to do for a little while. But you've gotta be able to then go, right, this is the rest of my life.

This isn't something that's no cure. The only treatment for it is a gluten-free diet. There's no magic thing you can say. So you have to be able to get

back up again and say,

back in again and say,

how am going to deal with this now? You know, this isn't a short term thing. I've got to make a way of life out of this diagnosis.

Perfect, thank you very much. Now we're just going to shift the conversation slightly because obviously we met because of the Thermomix and me being in Navenby and coming into what I didn't realize was a dairy free, if I'm honest, cafe, but your coffee is sensational. So if anyone is ever close to Navenby, you need to go in there, drink coffee and eat the cake. It is incredible.

Mm-hmm.

But you have had a go with the Thermomix and obviously that is part of my world and I would just like to understand your thoughts on the Thermomix and how you enjoyed it or didn't enjoy it.

Mm-hmm.

So I loved it. I found especially for someone who is busy all the time and I very rarely have time to just sit and enjoy cooking nowadays. Usually I'm trying to throw something together quickly because I've not got time. So for someone who doesn't have a lot of time, it was definitely enjoyable to be able to sit back and let a machine do all that work for me. So that was something I was quite surprised about because I didn't know about Thermomix until I met you. I think I'd...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I'd heard the brand name when we did shows and things, and I'd maybe seen a pop-up tent or whatever for it. But I didn't know what it was. And I think in my head, I was one of those people that thought it was just a blender. And I didn't really understand what it was. I didn't know what it was. So yeah, for me to obviously sit down with you and you talk to me and go, at all these amazing things you can do. And there's this program called Cooki do and you can, there's all these recipes. For me to be able to go, wow, I can make coleslaw for the shop.

Mm-hmm.

Kch!

to and there's a program for the people who are used to doing, there's all these recipes. For me, I can make coleslaw for the shop

and make soup for the shop. And so we kind of were able to not only do this for the shop to make things easier in that perspective, but also.

and I can make soup for the shop. And so we kind of were able to not only do things for the shop to make things easier in that perspective, but also

personally to be able to just make food for myself. Game changer, yeah.

It was good. Game

changer. So let's imagine that you just meet somebody a bit like I met you who doesn't know anything about the Thermomix. If you had to sum it up, how would you describe it? What would you say?

Mm-hmm.

I feel like I'm going to sound like a brochure or something at this point, but I feel like it is an appliance that can pretty much replace your 10 million other appliances that you've got in your kitchen. So if you're like me, I've got like an air fryer and I've got a juicer and I've got all these different things. And I think nine times out of 10, the Thermomix can actually replace all of those things.

Mm-hmm.

So it does just about everything. Yeah.

Yep. It does just about do

everything apart from bake your amazing gluten free goodies. Yeah. Can't quite do that. No. And my final question, which is when I ask all of my guests on my podcast is blue sky, no limitations. What would be the one meal that you would cook for yourself? No issues of, you know, gluten appearing in it. What would that be?

Yes. Can't quite bake yet.

It's actually a meal I still cook for myself and I will, yeah, it's a lasagne, but it's everything from scratch. It's the red wine in the sauce. I like to add bacon. I add far too much cheese. it's like three kinds. So I like to have Parmesan, cheddar, and also mozzarella. And it's layering it up in tiny little layers. So there's like 10 layers.

Okay.

lasagna and it takes a good couple of hours to make everything and do like the the cheese sauce the white sauce from scratch and yeah it's that it's a proper i've got a day off and i want to cook a really hearty meal that's what it is yeah

Mm-hmm.

So

lasagna's got pasta in it, what pasta are you using?

just any shop-bought gluten-free lasagna sheets from any supermarket. They're all pretty much the same, I'd say. Yeah, when it comes to lasagna, it's all the same.

Okay, you don't have a favourite, you're not sort of, no? Okay.

Okay, so China, thank you very much for your time. It's an absolute pleasure to speak to you and I'll be into the cafe very soon. Just for everyone who is listening, I will be dropping China's cafe into the show notes, so if you're ever in the area, then you really do need to drop on by and go say hi. So thank you again, China, and I'll see you soon.

Thank you.