Summary

Carrington Kelso returns to In the Key of Q for his fourth appearance, bringing with him the wisdom of displacement and the courage to sit with grief. Three years after his debut on the podcast, this multi-talented singer-songwriter has relocated from Georgia to San Diego, launched Clara Rose Candle Co, and is preparing to release his most personal project yet: A Moment for Grief.

In this deeply reflective conversation, Carrington explores the complex emotions of choosing to leave everything familiar behind, the exhausting reality of code switching as a Black queer man, and why streaming alone isn't enough to support independent artists. His insights on building your own table rather than waiting for an invitation resonate with particular power, offering a blueprint for creative autonomy in an industry that often marginalises voices like his.

This episode serves as both a masterclass in artistic vulnerability and a call to action for listeners to financially support the queer independent artists whose work reflects our lives back to us.

Timestamped Key Takeaways

• [04:39] Perfectionism in music production: Carrington discusses the struggle between excellence and perfectionism in his creative process

• [05:55] The courage to relocate: Why he left Georgia for San Diego despite the safety of familiar surroundings

• [12:29] Grief of your own choosing: How voluntary displacement creates a unique form of mourning that's no less real

• [15:08] Creating for the queer child within: The responsibility to provide representation for young LGBTQ+ people seeking their reflection in art

• [18:07] Building your own table: The power of horizontal networking rather than vertical ladder-climbing in the music industry

• [22:25] High-functioning anxiety from abandonment: How early paternal abandonment shaped perfectionist tendencies and people-pleasing behaviours

• [24:35] Code switching explained: The exhausting performance required of Black bodies in predominantly white spaces

• [28:22] What should a pop star look like: Challenging industry standards that favour lighter-skinned artists even within Black music

• [33:43] A Moment for Grief announcement: Carrington's upcoming album exploring the themes discussed in this episode

• [36:00] Supporting independent artists financially: Why streaming alone doesn't sustain artists and the importance of direct financial support

Guest Bio

Carrington Kelso is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, producer and entrepreneur whose unique blend of pop, R&B, soul and electronic sounds creates powerful narratives for Black queer love and artistic freedom. Based in San Diego, he has released the acclaimed album First We Fall and launched Clara Rose Candle Co. His upcoming project A Moment for Grief promises to be his most personal work yet. Find him at carringtonkelso.com and follow his journey on social media @carringtonkelso.

Resources

Music Mentioned

• Beyoncé: Dangerously in Love (album) • Blondie: "Call Me" (single) • Carrington Kelso: First We Fall (album) • Carrington Kelso: "Eden" (single) • Carrington Kelso: "Can I Be the One?" (single)

Artists Mentioned

• Beyoncé • Janet Jackson • Blondie • Madonna • George Michael • Britney Spears

Business

• Clara Rose Candle Co - Carrington's candle business

Links

• Read deep dives into our queer lives at the blog HERE.
• Check out the official podcast playlist on Spotify.
• Follow the podcast on: • Instagram • TikTok • Facebook
• See producer and presenter Dan Hall's other work HERE (subtitled version HERE).
• Listen to other episodes at here.

Dan Hall 00:19 Welcome to In the Key of Q, the podcast that explores the lives, music and experiences of queer musicians from around the world. I'm Dan Hall. Today, it's wonderful to welcome back to the show for the fourth episode Carrington Kelso, who is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, producer and entrepreneur who is carving out a powerful space in the music world with his unique blend of pop, R&B, soul and electronic sounds.

Dan Hall 01:11 Since I last spoke to him, he's released the acclaimed album First We Fall, launched the beautiful Clara Rose Candle Co and embarked on a new creative chapter in San Diego, releasing new music that signals an exciting evolution. Before we chat, we want to know if you're a queer musician interested in being featured on the show, please drop me an email at [email protected].

Dan Hall 01:59 But it's lovely to have an excuse to chat to you again. Hello there.

Dan Hall 03:59 So tell me what has been happening since we last spoke. Because we must have recorded the Black Queer America specials two and a half years ago.

Dan Hall 04:27 But I think this is where the geek in me comes out. I'm so geeky that I noticed the mix of Eden that is on the album is different from the mix that we had on the show.

Dan Hall 04:41 Honestly. Let it go. Finish the bloody mix and start on the next song.

Carrington Kelso 05:09 So.

Dan Hall 05:29 And suddenly it's Christmas and you've done one episode.

Dan Hall 05:55 So can you tell me why you moved? Where did you move from? What did that place mean to you? And then why did you leave that place, and why did you choose where you went to?

Carrington Kelso 06:35 And after the pandemic and the world kind of opening back up, I was really craving something different. I felt like I couldn't evolve in the space that I was in. And so I was really itching to see more of the world.

Carrington Kelso 07:13 Yeah. Yeah. No, it was it was definitely very scary. It was definitely a bit of a leap of faith. But I have really been told and shown time and time again, that when you make those kind of leaps, it might not be instantaneous, but your, your parachute always opens for you.

Dan Hall 07:53 Tell us what happened in season one. Sure.

Carrington Kelso 08:19 My first CD that I ever bought myself was Beyoncé's Dangerously in Love. And from that point forward, I knew that this is something that I had to do.

Carrington Kelso 08:46 Yeah. No, she set the bar astronomically high. I am a huge fan to this day, and I really aspire to bring that kind of storytelling. Not only to the music and the visuals, but also to the stage.

Carrington Kelso 09:47 I think that it wasn't necessarily coming internally, but something that was kind of put upon me by the society that I was being raised around the Bible Belt. You know, growing up in a Christian household, there was a lot of lore around what it meant to be a gay man. And so when I stepped into my sexuality, say, college maybe a little bit before, I really wanted to be able to articulate how I was feeling, but in a tasteful way.

Dan Hall 10:38 It's allowed to be both of those spaces. Right.

Carrington Kelso 11:03 And it wasn't really until after college, I would feel like, you know, around 25, 26 where I was just like, no, I'm proud to be a sexual being. I know that's how all of us got here. And I know that it's a beautiful thing. Like you said, it can be fun. It can be serious. And I really wanted to incorporate that in my music because it brings me so much freedom.

Carrington Kelso 11:34 So, San Diego is very interesting so far. The music scene that I've explored has been very DJ and like electronic heavy, like, where do I fit in? Where does my music, where does my sound belong? And that has really encouraged me to explore what I'm trying to say in this new music. I think that when I came here, I had an idea of the project that I wanted to release.

Carrington Kelso 12:29 I thought that Georgia was the end all be all. I would travel and just come back to that home and those friends and my god-kids and, you know, people that I love there and, you know, you move to a new place and it's uncharted territory. You haven't met all the people that are going to love you yet.

Carrington Kelso 13:00 It has been to me kind of like a plant shedding its leaves for another cycle to bloom. It feels almost like a death in a way. And I don't take it lightly. I don't take grief lightly. I've never kind of dealt with it in a traditional sense where I've lost somebody very close to me.

Carrington Kelso 14:11 I think it is such an honour to me to kind of be this beacon, vessel for something. I think that is so much bigger than me. Yes. These are my stories. But I really just kind of go into this place when I'm writing, when I'm creating, the best music is almost like autopilot.

Carrington Kelso 15:08 So I kind of owe it to myself now and to every other little queer kid that needs that.

Dan Hall 15:38 You know, and so I've got a lot of respect for you, for you and all the artists I feature doing that because you say that like it's easy. You go, well, it's, you know, it is the right thing to do because people need to hear it, man. You're putting yourself out there.

Carrington Kelso 16:21 And even if it doesn't go out to the world, I'm just proud to have created this. And then when it does go out into the world knowing that it doesn't quite belong to you anymore, it belongs to the listeners and to have people come up to me and say, like, you know, I wept to this song, or you were singing about me or these lyrics are my life.

Dan Hall 17:45 Something you'd said in a previous conversation that we'd had that really stuck with me. Genuinely. Was you talked about how we should stop trying to appease people so they'll invite us to the table and just make our own tables. Can you just repeat to people listening to this for the first time what you meant by that?

Carrington Kelso 18:12 Sure. I think that oftentimes, just us as people, we think that the only way to make it, whatever that means to you, whatever success means to you, is to network vertically. We always look for a ladder to climb. We're trying to get to somebody we believe is bigger or better than us. We want a seat at their table.

Carrington Kelso 19:09 It takes a lot more work. It takes a lot more time. It takes a lot more resources. But it's worth it in the end, because nobody can take it from you there. I think there are a lot of different reasons why we don't support our own communities. But what I will say, shout out to Ty, shout out to Theism, because of podcasts like this, I have made lifelong friends.

Dan Hall 19:43 That's really lovely to hear you guys are all still in touch.

Carrington Kelso 20:10 It was four of us. And I'm hoping that that ripple effect continues to grow and we can look back on this and be like, remember when it was just three of us? And now, look, it's hundreds of us.

Dan Hall 21:52 Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Carrington Kelso 22:25 making 50% of me can abandon me like this, then what's stopping anybody else from doing it? And so from a very young age, I really internalised this idea that if I was perfect, then I could avoid being abandoned. And so I got the grades and I did the homework and I cleaned the house and I, you know, was the best big brother and the best friend and really over-committed, over-gave of myself.

Carrington Kelso 23:31 You know, homophobia. Now I'm in the workforce, you know, working nine to fives and feeling like I have to consistently code switch as this, you know, six foot, six foot one, 225 pound black man to make sure that my white counterparts at work don't feel threatened or they don't feel that I'm being aggressive or angry, or is my hair cut in a certain way that is presentable?

Dan Hall 24:06 Exhaustion. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you, Carrington, just to step in there. I'm embarrassed to admit that I had only heard the term code switching because I heard it on an NPR show. And that was only four years ago. Clearly for other people who are just as blissfully ignorant as I am, can you just describe what code switching is?

Carrington Kelso 24:39 Sure. So code switching often happens in, I mean, really can happen in any space, but I felt it most in school and in the workplace, where if you are not or if you are in a body that is perceived to be somehow less than oftentimes it is black bodies, but it can be brown bodies as well.

Carrington Kelso 25:33 If you can exceed that expectation, then you are given grace, you are given opportunity. You are promoted over your other black counterparts because you speak so well for a black person. You talk so eloquently.

Carrington Kelso 25:51 Oh, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I got called an Oreo all of my life growing up, from elementary school to high school. And what that means is, you know, you're black on the outside, but you don't act black. You talk white on the inside. And so kids would call me, you know, an Oreo. I've been complimented on the way that I speak my entire life, but not because, you know, I'm just an elegant orator, but because you're not used to hearing black boys talk like that.

Dan Hall 26:36 And how does that make you feel when you're sort of weaponised against other black men in that way?

Carrington Kelso 27:10 This is just how I speak. And so if I am trying to survive in an environment just like everybody else, and I'm promoted because of it, it can build resentment, animosity between the group. And so I really try my best to keep the door open. If I am elevated in any kind of instance, I'm making sure there's a way for other people that look like me, that sound like me, that don't look like me, that don't sound like me to come in behind me, to make sure I'm not gatekeeping in the way that I feel like corporate America and even, you know, our colleges, our universities are very

Dan Hall 28:20 What should a pop star look like?

Carrington Kelso 28:51 But pop is usually the most coveted space in all pop. Pop means popular. What's popular right now. So there are rap artists that I feel like are pop artists because they were making popular music that would never get that title, that would never get the Grammy Award for Pop Album of the year, because they are darker skinned.

Dan Hall 29:16 I mean, really, it's hard to have an intellectual discussion with you about this because it's just nonsense. No.

Dan Hall 29:23 I don't absolutely, but I you know, I've only had 40 minutes of chatting with you, and I'm full of fury and pissed off with this.

Carrington Kelso 30:10 To use that to create something bigger than yourself.

Dan Hall 31:56 We're coming towards the end of the episode now and as ever, you have been a most fantastic guest to have on. Really. And when you first came on, I asked you what your 15 year old self would think of you. And I can't ask that again, because I so was before. So I'm going to ask a slightly different question.

Carrington Kelso 32:32 I think the Carrington from three years ago would be very proud of where the Carrington of today is. I think that he would be surprised at how fast things have moved, how fast things have changed, and understanding that some things had to pivot, to get to where we are now. But the goal and the focus, music really being the motive for everything else, it is the nucleus and everything else is extra hasn't been lost.

Dan Hall 33:17 So then, Carrington, what's coming up next? What have you got coming down the pipeline?

Dan Hall 33:43 Fantastic. It's always useful when the artist actually wants people to listen to it. Yes, yes yes yes.

Dan Hall 34:38 Carrington Kelso. Where can people find you online?

Dan Hall 34:56 And of course, I'll put links to all of those in the show notes. Now then, Carrington, a slight change in the format from when you first appeared. It's that for two minutes I just like to say to the artist, talk about whatever you want. Just got two minutes on this, meet my microphone and not get on my nerd and pencil.

Carrington Kelso 35:23 So I'm at two minutes talking about whatever I want I'm going to spend it really encouraging the listener and really encouraging artists to think about their art in a non streaming way. I think that as musicians, we've kind of lost the idea that music is art and it deserves to be treated as such. Streaming platforms have messed up our minds, messed up our consumers' minds to think that, you know, music should be worth 0.0003 dollars a stream, and that is not the case.

Carrington Kelso 36:26 So, just like you would buy a Beyoncé album or a Beyoncé ticket. It took that kind of fan support to get her from where she's at or where she was to where she's at, and we independent artists need that kind of support now more than ever, because it's not coming from the majors. It's not coming from the streaming platforms.

Dan Hall 36:50 Just to make this absolutely clear, because I'm realising this for the first time, listening to you, if I like Carrington Kelso's music, if I like this artist's music or this artist's music and they're not a major artist, it's not enough for me just to be streaming.

Carrington Kelso 37:31 The biggest cuts.

Carrington Kelso 37:33 Yes. And they'll pay me the 0.0003 dollars that you have given me by listening to my song 100 times or 200 times, or whatever that is. There's a lot of research out on the interwebs. Like, you can Google it. I'm not, you know, bullshitting, y'all. They aren't paying us anything.

Carrington Kelso 37:57 So buying the music is the best. Go to a website, go to a Bandcamp, go to an iTunes. You can stream it after that. You can buy the album just to support, and then you can go to streaming from there. But the amount of time, the amount of streams it would take to make $10, it's just incomparable to then you just going to my website and buying the project.

Carrington Kelso 38:28 I'm going to say, Can I Be the One? I think it's fantastic. I think it is encompassing of what we've talked about today, what we've talked about for this album, A Moment for Grief and I think it'll be a nice surprise for people who have heard my music before and people who haven't yet.

Carrington Kelso 42:01 Thank you. Dan, it's always a pleasure speaking with you and talking about art and queer issues and black issues. I appreciate you using your platform for things like this.

Carrington Kelso 42:18 Okay, I got you.

Dan Hall 42:38 And so for that reason, I'm going to very much promote Carrington's website, clarosecandles.com, and of course provide a link to that in the show notes.

Dan Hall 43:28 And let's really grow this international community. If you want a guest on the show or have any thoughts, please email me at [email protected]. And don't forget, you can listen to old episodes, including the 132 episodes, the Carrington's on over it inthekeyofq.com, and you'll also find their deeper dives into our queer lives with a blog, and there will be a number of blogs growing up soon.