Ani O'Brien is a women's rights advocate and political commentator. She has worked previously for the Leader of the Opposition (National) and is a council member of the Free Speech Union. https://aniobrien.substack.com/

Juliet Moses is spokesperson for the New Zealand Jewish Council and is a trust lawyer.

This podcast features a discussion between Ani O'Brien (women's rights advocate, political commentator, Free Speech Union council member, and self-described TERF), and Juliet Moses (spokesperson for the New Zealand Jewish Council and trust lawyer), exploring how grand narratives -overarching moral stories that define heroes/villains, good/evil, and acceptable discourse - powerfully shape public conversations, media framing, policy, and perceptions, often inverting reality and sidelining facts through emotional appeals, institutional capture, and social pressure.

Music: Bach B Minor Mass

Performed by John Eliot Gardiner, The Monteverdi Choir and The English Baroque Soloists

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/j-s-bach-mass-in-b-minor-bwv-232/1053521016 https://open.spotify.com/album/3ELfX4GIPcYOTJBl8PdoKi?si=I8bz8nhaTyK3Qq4E5-ZtXg