Transcripts
Welcome to Live With The Pricing Lady.
Speaker:I'm Janene, your hostess.
Speaker:This show is all about helping you build a sustainably profitable
Speaker:business while making an unbelievable impact on your world.
Speaker:Learn from my 20 years of experience and from my guests as we discuss their pricing
Speaker:challenges, failures, and successes.
Speaker:Pricing is a way of being or behaving in your business.
Speaker:My mission is to help you confidently charge for the value you deliver.
Speaker:Pricing is either hurting or helping your business.
Speaker:Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.
Speaker:In this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady we're talking about going from
Speaker:free sessions to paid clients, how to price and position your discovery calls.
Speaker:Sit back, relax, and enjoy the episode.
Speaker:Welcome to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady.
Speaker:I'm Janine your hostess.
Speaker:Today, we're going to be talking about discovery calls.
Speaker:What I mean by discovery call are those first calls you
Speaker:have with potential clients.
Speaker:Early in my own business.
Speaker:When I approached these calls, it was more with the goal of trying to prove myself.
Speaker:Quite often I would do coaching during those sessions and give tips and try
Speaker:to prove myself, prove my own worth.
Speaker:As someone who can give them good advice.
Speaker:And there came a point in time where I realized, first of all, I was spending
Speaker:way too much time on these calls.
Speaker:I had the call scheduled for an hour and it was consuming a lot of
Speaker:my time and I wasn't getting a real good return on investment in that.
Speaker:And the second thing I found was that I would sometimes even overwhelm a
Speaker:potential clients with my enthusiasm.
Speaker:We've all been on the receiving end of that.
Speaker:More importantly, I realized that I wasn't really listening to the
Speaker:customers and understanding what their problems we're, and then trying to
Speaker:understand how I can best serve them.
Speaker:That is when I decided I needed to shift my whole mindset.
Speaker:Now, this is something I see with a lot of my own clients, that they
Speaker:have the wrong impression about what these discovery calls are about.
Speaker:That's what we're going to talk about today, as well as whether or not
Speaker:you should be charging for yours.
Speaker:Let's start with the first thing here, which is really shifting your mindset.
Speaker:If you're in that position, or if you found yourself similar to me where you
Speaker:were using those calls to try and prove yourself by actually delivering coaching
Speaker:or delivering coats culting during the call, then it's time for a mindset change.
Speaker:The objective of a discovery call should be to vet the client and understand
Speaker:if this is a good fit for both of you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There are potential clients out there who it's not a good fit
Speaker:for the two of you work together.
Speaker:And rather pretending that it is, and you both struggling with it or one
Speaker:or the other, you struggling with it.
Speaker:It's really important that when you have those calls, you look at what that fit is.
Speaker:You want to shift from free coaching or free consulting to what I call
Speaker:diagnosis, understanding their needs and understanding whether or not
Speaker:you, what you offer, the way that you do things is fit for purpose.
Speaker:When it comes to working with them and helping them achieve their goals.
Speaker:If you are doing coaching or are doing consulting in those first calls, you
Speaker:definitely, almost definitely should be charging for it in my experience, but
Speaker:we'll come back to that in a few minutes.
Speaker:Shifting your mindset here.
Speaker:It can be really hard.
Speaker:It took me a little bit of time to get there.
Speaker:But the first thing that I did was I cut the time for those calls and half, right?
Speaker:So those calls are now 20 to 30 minutes.
Speaker:That's it?
Speaker:Because as I said before, I was using a lot of time for those calls and not
Speaker:getting a lot of return on investment.
Speaker:So I needed to make sure that I was doing the right things in
Speaker:those calls in the right way.
Speaker:And by shifting, you know, just the duration of the call, it left me less time
Speaker:to do those things that I to so naturally, because of course I want to be able to
Speaker:help people, but weren't really serving myself or the client in doing them in
Speaker:the way that was at the time that I was.
Speaker:So we want to focus the call a diagnosis, understand their
Speaker:needs, understand the flit fit.
Speaker:Between the two of you, is it a good fit?
Speaker:Sometimes it's not.
Speaker:You know that right away and you need to, you know, the best thing you can
Speaker:do for the client is in them somewhere.
Speaker:You may also be helping them get some clarity on what their needs are
Speaker:and understanding what their goals are or what it is they think you
Speaker:can help them with the most, right.
Speaker:And you're going to highlight the outcomes of the call, which I
Speaker:really clarity for them and next steps as well as how you can help.
Speaker:The second learning was being able to structure the calls.
Speaker:My first approach was kind of loosey goosey.
Speaker:I just got on the call with the person and kind of let it go where it wanted.
Speaker:Then when I switched what I was doing I had six questions.
Speaker:Six questions that I wanted to ask.
Speaker:And that was it.
Speaker:With those six questions, I had enough information to be able to understand
Speaker:their needs, the fit, and whether or not, I thought I could help them, and how.
Speaker:What I did is I set myself up a little outline for the call
Speaker:and was very clear with myself.
Speaker:About what the structure of the call was.
Speaker:So the open the call was some sort of two to three minutes, intro setting
Speaker:expectations and helping them understand what we're here to do, and be very clear
Speaker:about that, this is not a coaching call.
Speaker:We're here to understand your needs and if this is a good
Speaker:fit for us to work together.
Speaker:And if it is that I'll share with you.
Speaker:You know what that might look like.
Speaker:You know, so be very clear and concrete in those first few minutes about the
Speaker:purpose of the call and the structure.
Speaker:I have six questions.
Speaker:I'm going to ask you.
Speaker:There'll be time for you to ask questions and then I can.
Speaker:You know, understand how we could work together and share that with you.
Speaker:Is that okay for you?
Speaker:Is something I might say in one of these calls, right.
Speaker:Being very clear in those first two to three minutes.
Speaker:What the call is for and how it's going to go.
Speaker:Then you go into the exploration phase where you ask your questions.
Speaker:Now you may ask more than six questions.
Speaker:I use six questions or I have six questions prepared, quite often
Speaker:by the second or third question, the person has already answered my
Speaker:other questions, but that's okay.
Speaker:They're there.
Speaker:If I need them.
Speaker:And if I don't, then I can move on to the next thing.
Speaker:Having those questions to give me a guide for exploring what their
Speaker:needs are, why we're here, why it's important now, how critical is it to
Speaker:solve this within a given timeframe?
Speaker:Why they think I might be the best person to help them.
Speaker:Those are the kinds of questions that I ask in that exploration phase.
Speaker:And then there's a transition point.
Speaker:So you've asked the questions.
Speaker:Usually I repeat back some of what I've heard from them using their words.
Speaker:If I can.
Speaker:To make sure that I've understood correctly what they're saying.
Speaker:I asked them if there's anything that they haven't mentioned
Speaker:that they think is important.
Speaker:That's usually my last question.
Speaker:In terms of the six.
Speaker:And then I'll ask them, okay, what questions do you have?
Speaker:And quite often what happens in my case is a like, well, I'd like to
Speaker:know what kind of offers you have.
Speaker:And then there's a real natural transition into talking about the offers.
Speaker:And here's the point where, you know, if that doesn't happen, then I can
Speaker:say, well, I think I can help you and this is how would you like to
Speaker:hear about the types of offers that I have or how we might work together.
Speaker:And I leave that to them to say whether or not they want to go there or not.
Speaker:If it's somebody that I don't think is a good fit.
Speaker:Then of course I will share that with them.
Speaker:I might have suggestions about other people they could work with
Speaker:or something they might need to do before they come work with me.
Speaker:It depends on the situation.
Speaker:I've even recently had a client that, I felt like maybe they might need help on
Speaker:a broader scale, not just with pricing.
Speaker:And so I brought that to the table and I said, you know, if
Speaker:that's really what you need.
Speaker:I suggest you reflect on whether that's what you need.
Speaker:And if so, I may be able to recommend some to someone too, but if you really
Speaker:want to focus on The Pricing, then absolutely you're in the right place.
Speaker:And that was, you know, I think helpful for them to understand that.
Speaker:I saw that.
Speaker:And I understood that and gave them the opportunity to reflect on that.
Speaker:They decided to work with me anyhow.
Speaker:And I was super excited of course, to start that work with them.
Speaker:But my point here is that I feel being open and honest and trying
Speaker:to do what's best for them goes a long way in, in these calls.
Speaker:The last step in this call is to talk about what the next step is.
Speaker:For example for a lot of my clients it's okay, I'll send you
Speaker:a written version of that offer.
Speaker:And I'll follow up with you.
Speaker:If I don't hear from you in the next three to five days, I'll follow up
Speaker:with you to confirm that you got it and find out if you have any questions.
Speaker:For example.
Speaker:If it's an online offer, you might say, okay, I'll send you the link or if they
Speaker:can pay right away, would you like to pay by e-banking or credit card or,
Speaker:you know, whatever the call to action is, the next step is be very clear
Speaker:about that before you get off the call.
Speaker:And that is basically the structure that I use for my calls.
Speaker:When I shifted things over, that's where I went to and I do all that in usually about
Speaker:20 minutes with my clients, sometimes 30.
Speaker:I find that there's no need to drag the call on for a longer period of time.
Speaker:I can do that assessment and understand the situation well enough in 20 minutes
Speaker:to be able to make a judgment call.
Speaker:In the cases where I can't for example, when I do consulting projects,
Speaker:bigger projects, then oftentimes we need a little bit more time
Speaker:because we need to scope the offer.
Speaker:Scoping the offer, we'll come back to that in a minute, because I
Speaker:think there's an opportunity and a consulting context to charge for that.
Speaker:And I'll share more with you about why I think that in a moment.
Speaker:But that is, you know, a time where you might need maybe 45
Speaker:minutes to an hour to be able to,
Speaker:Where you might need 45 minutes to an hour to be able to understand the
Speaker:scope enough to determine how you can best serve them and what type of offer
Speaker:you might, you might present them.
Speaker:We've talked about why it's important to position these calls in the right way.
Speaker:And to shift your mindset from, proving that you're a great coach
Speaker:or a great consultant to vetting and helping them get clarity.
Speaker:Now I want to talk about transitioning from free to paid.
Speaker:I think first of all, it's sort of tradition in many industries
Speaker:for these calls to be free.
Speaker:I think that's also a good reason to keep them short as well,
Speaker:unless you need it to be longer.
Speaker:Because of course it's your time and effort and energy
Speaker:that you're putting into it.
Speaker:And quite frankly, even helping a client get clarity on something has value.
Speaker:While you could do it for free, you can charge for it.
Speaker:I know many clients who charge for these initial calls with their clients.
Speaker:Now, some of them, in some cases, these fees that they charge, which
Speaker:are usually nominal, meaning not super high, as a way to weed out
Speaker:people who aren't really serious.
Speaker:That can be a great tactic, especially as your business grows.
Speaker:If you find yourself, having a lot of these calls and many of them don't
Speaker:turn into business, it might be a good step for you to charge something for
Speaker:them, because then you weed out those people who aren't really serious and not
Speaker:really to put a little bit of something.
Speaker:Money into it, even to have that initial call with you.
Speaker:And sometimes you charge a full fee for it.
Speaker:I think, especially in consulting, as I said, there is a real benefit to being
Speaker:able to scope a project for a client.
Speaker:That takes talent, one.
Speaker:It takes knowledge, two, right?.
Speaker:It takes an expertise.
Speaker:If I'm doing a big pricing project, I know what things they might need to look at.
Speaker:I know in what structure.
Speaker:I know where the hiccups might be, and that's something that a lot of
Speaker:clients don't necessarily know and why they come to people like me.
Speaker:That scoping phase can be a real service that you perform for them.
Speaker:And I know many people who charge for those scoping fees.
Speaker:And often what they will do is if it's a bigger project later on, then they'll
Speaker:give a credit back for part or all of that fee that they charged upfront.
Speaker:If if the client does a certain size project with you.
Speaker:I wouldn't do it, if you are a coach and someone has a call with you and
Speaker:they pay for that first session and then they order another session.
Speaker:I wouldn't start comping them already.
Speaker:I think they need to do a bigger package with you before
Speaker:you give them credit for that.
Speaker:That would be my only word of caution around that.
Speaker:I would encourage you to, to give it a try, see how it works in your
Speaker:business and see how you can utilize it.
Speaker:What's important is if you're going to be positioning the call as a free call.
Speaker:Then you're going to talk about how this call is there to
Speaker:determine how we can work together.
Speaker:It's not a free coaching or consulting call.
Speaker:You want to be very clear about how you position it.
Speaker:Whereas, if it's a paid call, you want to lean into the value that they're going
Speaker:to get out of it, which is the call is designed to give you clarity on goals
Speaker:and on the actions you might need to move forward to get towards those goals.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So the it's really an investment in clarity and action, as opposed just
Speaker:an assessment of, are we a good fit?
Speaker:I think that's a really important distinction in there.
Speaker:I want you to take a look at your own discovery calls and
Speaker:how are you positioning them?
Speaker:Because right now you might be that you kind of mixed it in there a little
Speaker:bit, and it's not real clear to you and or your clients, what that call
Speaker:is about or how you're positioning it.
Speaker:Take some time to think about that.
Speaker:Those are the three learnings that I've had around discovery calls in my own
Speaker:business over the past seven plus years, I still can't believe it's been that long.
Speaker:Let me summarize.
Speaker:The first was about shifting your mindset and reframing how you see
Speaker:the call so that you can be clear about what the call is about when
Speaker:it comes to talking to your clients.
Speaker:Remember, the discovery call is a diagnostic tool.
Speaker:And especially important is that you are vetting them, you know, understanding
Speaker:their needs and understanding if it's a good fit for both of you.
Speaker:If your discovery call or your type of initial call with a client is more
Speaker:value-driven where you're giving them clarity on goals and actions, then you
Speaker:may want to consider charging for it.
Speaker:You want to have a very clear structure for yourself for these calls?
Speaker:What happened for me is I set up that structure.
Speaker:I used it for awhile and now I don't even think about.
Speaker:I still have my outline.
Speaker:Quite frankly, still have my outline, but I don't go there.
Speaker:And I don't really look at it anymore unless I'm having an
Speaker:off day and me to refresher.
Speaker:It comes more naturally to me.
Speaker:And that's what you'll find.
Speaker:You may need that outline for awhile, but with time it just comes more
Speaker:naturally to you and it's easier.
Speaker:But it's important up front that you use such a tool to help keep you in
Speaker:line and, and so that you can be clear.
Speaker:More clear with your clients when you're establishing the purpose of the call and,
Speaker:and managing the flow of the call as well.
Speaker:Now, if you decided to transition your calls from free to paid
Speaker:or paid to free either way.
Speaker:You want to make sure that you're focusing on the right thing.
Speaker:If you're going from free to paid, you want to shift your focus to the value that
Speaker:they're going to get out of that calls, which is usually clarity and action.
Speaker:If you're in consulting, it might be scoping.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Which is a little bit more than clarity and action.
Speaker:And I would encourage you to consider how you want to go about charging for that.
Speaker:How much is a good question.
Speaker:I would think about the value.
Speaker:What's the real value.
Speaker:You know, do they have the in-house know how to be able to scope it for example.
Speaker:And if they don't, what would it cost them to be able to have that?
Speaker:And you can use that kind of understanding as a point of value to compare to,
Speaker:in terms of what you might charge.
Speaker:At this point in time, what I do is I invite you to take five to
Speaker:10 minutes to reflect on what your doing in your discovery calls.
Speaker:So reflect back on the things that we've talked about here today.
Speaker:And look at what you're doing.
Speaker:Are your calls focused on clarity?
Speaker:And action.
Speaker:Are they focused on scoping?
Speaker:Is it focused more on assessing needs and fit?
Speaker:And is there an opportunity for you to be charging for that?
Speaker:Or is there something different that you need to be doing if you are coaching
Speaker:during those calls and it's clear for you that it's time to make a change there.
Speaker:Then what do you need to do in order to make that shift?
Speaker:Think about it, write down, saving.
Speaker:And of course, you're always welcome to share it with me.
Speaker:That's all for today's episode of Live with The Pricing Lady.
Speaker:I've hoped that you have enjoyed this.
Speaker:If you have any questions at all, please reach out to me
Speaker:at The Pricing Lady dot com.
Speaker:Thank you for listening to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, the podcast.
Speaker:If you enjoyed the episode, rate, review, and subscribe to it, then share
Speaker:it with your friends and colleagues.
Speaker:I love hearing back from you listeners.
Speaker:If you've got comments, questions, or topic ideas, go on over to thepricinglady.
Speaker:com and contact me there.
Speaker:Not sure where to start when it comes to improving pricing and profits?
Speaker:At ThePricingLady.
Speaker:com you can download a copy of my Self Assessment Pricing Scorecard.
Speaker:Find out where it's going well and where you can begin improving.
Speaker:Or just simply book a discovery call with me.
Speaker:There we can discuss what's up with pricing in your business and
Speaker:how I might be able to help you.
Speaker:Thanks once again for joining.
Speaker:Remember, pricing can hurt or help your business.
Speaker:Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.
Speaker:See you next time and as always, enjoy pricing.