In this inspiring episode of the Wealth Witches Podcast, host Katelyn Magnuson sits down with Jamie Ridler, founder of the School of Creative Magic, to explore the transformative power of creativity. Jamie shares her journey of embracing her artistic spirit and how it has shaped her life and work. Together, they discuss the intersection of practical and artistic pursuits, the importance of showing up authentically, and the magic that unfolds when you honor your creative self.

Whether you’re a seasoned artist, a budding creative, or someone looking to reconnect with your passions, this episode is packed with insights to inspire and empower your unique creative journey. Jamie also introduces her upcoming program, The Studio: A Year of Creative Magic, designed to help participants infuse their lives with creativity and community.

Tune in to learn how embracing your artistic side can lead to a richer, more authentic life.

Key Takeaways

• Embrace your full creative self to unlock authentic expression.
• Combining practicality and creativity creates unique opportunities.
• Community helps you feel seen and supported as an artist.
• Creativity is valid and valuable, even without monetary rewards.
• Consistent practice fosters growth and connection to your art.

Guest Bio:

Meet Jamie. She is the founder of the School of Creative Magic and a highly respected creative coach and mentor. With over two decades of experience, Jamie has helped tens of thousands of highly sensitive creatives find clarity, courage, and confidence to fully embrace their artistic spirits. Her expertise spans writing, theater, dance, and visual arts, allowing her to guide artists across all mediums with her unique, magical approach.

Jamie lives in Toronto with her husband and their three studio kittens, Shibumi, Scout, and Escher. When she’s not coaching or creating, you can find Jamie working on her latest collage series or pursuing her newest passion—learning to DJ!

Connect with Jamie:

Instagram: @starshyne

The School of Creative Magic

Website: https://www.jamieridlerstudios.ca/

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Music credit: Neon Fairies by Wolves

Hello, and welcome magical creatures to the Wealth Witches podcast.

This is a place where we brew financial empowerment and mix in a little sprinkle

of magic. I'm Caitlin Magnuson, your guide on this enchanted

journey to financial enlightenment. Here, we honor all identities and

invoke our inner witches to create holistic wealth and prosperity. So

grab your crystals, open your minds, and let's get ready to conjure some

financial clarity clarity.

Hi, and welcome back to the Wealth Witches podcast. Today, we have

guest Jamie Riddler, m a CPCC

and founder of the School of Creative Magic. Jamie is the founder of

the School of Creative Magic and an expert creative coach and mentor. Her

specialty is helping highly sensitive creatives find the clarity, courage,

and confidence to go from painfully hiding their light to

fully embracing their artistic spirit, and finally creating what only they can

make. For 2 decades, Jamie's magical approach to coaching,

courses, and content has helped awaken the creative spirit in tens of

thousands of people around the world. Her experience in the arts includes

writing, theater, dance, the visual arts, and more, giving her a

range that allows her to see the creative challenges that exist across mediums

and work powerfully with artists of all kinds. Jamie lives in Toronto with her

beloved husband and 3 studio kittens. You can see Shaboomi,

Scout, and Escher on social media regularly enduring Jamie's penchant

for photography. Jamie's latest projects include a collage series

of magical animals and learning how to DJ. Expect dance parties

in the future. Jamie, welcome. Also, I love the

part about learning how to DJ. That's so fun.

I'm really excited. It's my next big project. It's starting next year

and I'm signed up for a program and it's gonna be 8 months of

intensive DJing, getting ready to lead dance

events. And I like, that called to my heart

and terrified me, so, of course, I'm doing it. Oh, oh my goodness. I

love that. How fun. I it makes her, like,

think about Shaquille O'Neal, right, who has been, like, in his DJ era and,

like, just transforming. Like, what an

interesting career that he's had. And it's just, like, to

be able to go do something so fun and so

just, like, complete sideline from what he had been known for for so many

years is really cool. So I love that for you. It feels much more in

the realm of the art that you're, you know, doing, but still, like, such a

big jump. Right? I will say that even though yeah. It

seems like such a shocking thing, but everybody who knows me well said, of course,

you're doing that. That attracts. Yes. That makes total

sense. I'm gonna tell Elise what I'm doing. They're like, oh, yeah. Of course.

No. I love that so much. And I know that you and I were gonna

wanna chat about what we were talking about before all of this recording started. And

we were chatting about where I lived and the fact that I live for any

of you that are listening that don't know, I live in the mountains outside of

Boise, Idaho in a rural

rural area where Boise is the nearest large town,

and I was you you called me out because you asked

how I like living here. I I said it it's good. Most of the time

I had some hesitation and it is. It's great. The house is lovely where

we live is lovely. We have wonderful acreage. The property values were affordable at the

time and it has been wonderful

for my creativity, but it is also a real

challenge to create community here because I was telling you that, like, I'm

the weird witchy person. I'm the one that, you know, believes in

bodily autonomy and, like, all of these other things that come up that are so

important to me and finding a community that was like minded

is still a struggle even now. And you were chatting about how,

like, you live in Toronto and you live a stone's throw from all of these

options. It's true. And then but at the

same time, like, most of the people that come into my work,

who are in my community, they're in that position too, where

they look around and they're the weird one just because they

wanna paint or they wanna write poetry or, like,

sometimes it still surprises me when I hear that. And

I have to say, like, I I've been around since the, sort of, first

wave of blogging. And so back in the day, that

was the joy of it was suddenly I'm still friends with a ton of

people who are sort of, from that world

too. But that was what we were looking for. We were looking for

other creative souls. We were looking for other people

who were interested in, like, aligning our lives

with our hearts, or we're we weren't the weird one where

we were, like I remember still one of my blogging friends asking

me, so how do you deal with being weird? And I looked at her and

I went, I'm weird? Like, I I have no

idea that somebody might consider me weird

because yes. I yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I, you

know, I've got the whole art piece going on, but also too, like,

I read tarot cards. I've got my altar behind me. I have

crystals that mean something to me. Like, that's also just been

that's been in my heart since I was a girl. You know? And

so I don't I don't find that weird. I find that

natural. Exactly. Exactly. No. And I

think that there has been I think

no matter what, we we want to cultivate community of some sort or

find our other weirdos. Because amongst other weirdos, we're not weird. It it's

we have common ground. We have common interests. We have things that we're able to

feel safe discussing. And

so much of and as we were talking about this too, is so much of

the reason for this podcast has been such a creative

outlet for me and that the original version of it had been confident

money podcast. And, yes, I want your money to feel confident. I want you to

feel confident in that money, but it had been a name that I had

settled on that was good at the time. A

big proponent of done, but not perfect. Done, but able

to work. Done, but able to change. And in chatting with

lawyers and, like, really getting

getting granular about what I wanted to do more of and where I was feeling

like I wasn't being true to myself

caused this entire rebrand. And you, Jamie, nailed it.

Right? You said it was, like, that's your favorite space to work in as practical

magic because what I'm looking at what I was doing is I was showing up

as Caitlin, the accountant, as the founder of the freelance CFO, as

someone that can give you all this practical, tactical, strategic

advice. But for a lack of a better term, like, behind closed

doors and in my personal life, I am a crystal

loving, tarot supporting, astrology

working individual, and I've got you know, I'm a

green witch, and I have plants in my garden. And, like, there are all of

these things that I'm so incredibly passionate about that I wasn't feeling confident allowing

to show up or allowing to for fear of judgment, for fear of

all these all this shit that we tell ourselves that goes around with

it. And so the Wealth Witches podcast is really the

crossroads of where, like, that function and whoo be. And, like, we're not just sitting

here manifesting and taking no action. Like, we're also putting money

in our retirement. We're also, like, you know, doing the more masculine

or traditional finance things while we're incorporating the rest of our

holistic selves. I think this is so profoundly

important. You know, you use the word you said it's so funny because your podcast

is called had the word confidence in it. And you said, I wasn't feeling

confident because and I think that's what happens when we split

ourselves off and we're we're divided. Right? And

something happens and that's what we're taught to do. Like, this is

appropriate in this space. This is appropriate in that space.

And re when you bring that all together, like,

the potency is exponential.

You know? And I really think this is something So I find this in the

arts and I find this with what you're saying, and I think it's so exciting.

It's like people think that because you're a

money person, you're a practical person, you know, like, the

facts and have some strategies, that that that doesn't

mix with woo. Or like, they'll say about artsy people like, oh, you're

artsy. You're not organized. You're flaky. I'm like, if

you're running, I don't know, you're putting on a play or

you're creating a film, I'm telling you, you are organized.

You know? And so, it's a complete fallacy and it's so

exciting to see all the different ways that that can come together as

a whole. And I'm excited for you. I'm I'm not just excited for you, I'm

excited for the people, all the witchy

people out there who now are gonna feel like they

have access to real intel.

Who they can talk to somebody and feel safe saying, I have an

astrology business and, you know, like, I'm gonna

tell you a story and it involves DJing and an accountant.

Wonderful. Right? Yeah. And it's it's so this is an example of

why the world needs what you're doing. So I recently was looking for

a new accountant. And so I had a phone meeting with a guy,

and, we were chatting and getting to know each other. And it

was pretty clear to me that he was not

feminist. You know? And as we were talking, he

said, so what do you do for fun? I said, well, actually, I'm just doing

the most amazing thing. I just signed up for DJing. And he

said, is there much demand for women your age

in DJing? Wow. Wow.

Now I felt so good about my answer because I just was like, this

is what comes with, like, years of experience as an adult. I

turned around to him and I said, well, how many women you know wish

they were dancing and have nowhere to go? Mhmm. And he

said, all of them. So

Right. So rewind that question, buddy. But if I

had come to you, like, that would not have been my

experience. Right? Right. So You would have been

scared. Like, it was just what it was. Like, how oh, cool. Because I totally

missed that in your bio. Yeah. Yeah. So I just

I'm really excited for you and for those

people and that world of people who may not feel like there's

somebody out there that can meet them in this

magical place of practical magic. Yes. No. Exactly.

And I think it's it has been such an

interesting, uncomfortable at times,

combining or showing up in

spaces that there

there's all of these and I'm actually really interested in your take on this, but

I have a team. Not all of my team is WUI. All of them are

totally accepting of it. They're totally some of them are way we're than others,

and there were I'm not asking them all to dive in on

this. Right? This is my portion of the venture. Like, our

accounting firm stands. I am the one incorporating

my more authentic self, my full self into what we're doing.

But there's all these little voices. What are they going to think?

What are my clients going to think? What, like, what is going to come about?

What are my parents going to say? Hi, mom. I know you're listening to this

when it eventually comes out. My mom listened to all of the podcast episodes,

which I love. My mom's also Reiki certified,

so she won't be terribly surprised. But it's just

it's it's uncomfortable to, like, push through

that and show up because you're when you're it's so much

easier to show up and show up with this portion of me that has been

siloed, that has been boxed. Yeah. Because if someone rejects that, they're not rejecting

me. They're rejecting this mask, which also being

neurodivergent. I think you get really comfortable switching between different masks that

are socially acceptable in the area that you are. And a big part of

this unmasking journey has been unmasking in my business, and that

was, like, the last place. So it felt like I haven't been showing up

in the fullest. And it was

becoming more uncomfortable to not show up than it was

scary to show up. That like,

that wonderful Anais Nin quote, which I'm gonna butcher right now, but about,

you know, when, caterpillar becomes a butterfly is when it

it's too more painful to stay in the cocoon than to release

into the butterfly. It's interesting because often,

not always, but often, the hardest part is the reveal.

Right? It's that moment. And then, it's quite fast like,

I often think of it a bit like an experiment. Like, I'm

gonna say this out loud and I'm observing what

happens because some people will be like, woah,

that's interesting. Tell me more. And some people will be like, you know, make a

face and really not engage. And, really, that just gives

me information about who's my people and who's not. And

so, it ends up being good information. I I will I

always feel like with stuff like this, because I'm such a proponent of being who

we are and being fully who we are. And I want a world where it

is safe for us to all be exactly who we are. And,

also, I always wanna say, you're allowed to be safe. Right? You're

allowed to make choices. Like, there will be some people you don't tell.

Right. And there will be some people who have not earned the right to

know things about you, and that's fine.

But I also think, like, with what you're doing, the more we

do it, the safer we make it for everybody. Yes. You know?

Because it just becomes very normal. And when our

expectation is that we will

my expectation starts with, it's gonna be

okay. Like, I I I think it the right thing is that people be

understanding with each other, and I hope that the right thing is gonna happen right

now. Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, like the right thing,

capital r. But I I just like to

I like to imagine the best in people. You

know? But this is revealing my absolute judgment that the best in people

means being accepting. And that

is that is my that is my take. That is my perspective.

Absolutely. No. I I

am always really intrigued in what's interesting is the fear that comes up around

this or the, you know, the the fear, the stress, the

not, you know I'm not even gonna say not feeling safe, because for the most

part in my life with who I am and how I present,

safety is less of a concern, which also makes me feel like I'm that much

more responsible to show up in the way that I can Right. To allow that

for others who may not be as safe in that environment. Right. But there

are times where and I do this in the accounting

business. I will purposely stay things that I know

are polarizing because I don't want certain people in

my audience. And it's very easy for me to

do that. And so why is it so much harder

for me when I'm looking at combining and really showing up

to be recognizing that I'm doing the same thing? I'm just doing it in a

little bit scarier way. Right. Because you're doing

it somewhere that for a long time, you've kept it separate. This

this is this kind of world, and this is this kind of world. But I'll

I I I wonder what your experience will be like because I recently did a

massive rebrand. Right? So I've always run my business primarily under my

name, you know, and, until just this summer.

And then I launched the School of Creative Magic. And I felt like

this was, like, this big step, you know. I guess it's a little

like the DJ ing. But lots and lots and lots of people said to

me, oh, that's so you. Like, it's so you, Jamie.

And I thought, you know, we're not really keeping it a secret. Like, we think

we're keeping it a secret, but we're not really. That we're magical.

And, yeah. I think that kind of sparkles

out into the world. Well, and that that's a

really good way to put it. Yeah. I mean, it'd be as big of a

surprise to people that have been around for a little bit.

I I had dropped a teaser about something in my

Facebook group the other day, and someone was like, oh, Waffles? What is

that? They totally wore. I'm intrigued. Yes.

Yes. Oh, what an interesting reaction to that. Because, you know, generally, it's

I I know that I have my people that are gonna be like, hell yes.

That's wonderful. Like, what a fantastic place to be. And I have my people that

are like, oh, witch. Like, that I don't love that. Not for

me. And so the the intrigue or the curiosity was

really, something that I hadn't expected from just the little

tiny bread crumbing that I've dropped in so far. So, yes,

I'm at this point more excited than I am

scared or nervous, which is great,

and something that I think tells me I'm on the right track.

Just like you with, you know, DJing is it's it's this big

thing that there's like, what a big change, but also, like,

how exciting of a venture for you this next year.

Oh, yeah. I can't wait. And I really, so

I've dance has been my first love for all of my

creative life. Mhmm. I still remember in a

visceral body somatic way. I had signed my mom

had signed me up for some theater class. I did theater too. And it

and it was good. It was fine. And then they had a movement

instructor come in, and we did this dance. And I just remember

we did this dance performance, and the lights came on, and I felt

like this is life. Okay? Something

just happened in that moment. And so I pursued that

for a long time. I I started late

to getting to sort of serious classes.

And then I'm I'm I'm 5 foot 3

and something. And I'm like a curvy girl, and I've always been

a curvy girl. And I really wasn't built for,

the world of dance. You know, I wasn't built for

commercials and stage shows. And, you know, so that

really got me down for a long time. You know, I left that.

Thankfully, I found theater in a really

just a surprising way. I was going to university for English and drama.

And my boyfriend at the time, we were walking through the quad, and

he said, look at that, Jamie. I think you'd be interested. It was like drama

auditions tomorrow. And I just I didn't think. I did I

walked over. I signed my name. I just auditioned the next day, and I was

one of, like, 32 people to make it in the program. Wow. And that

changed the trajectory of my life. And then after that, I came

back to dance. And one of the things I've learned in my life was

you don't have to wait for somebody

else to say you fit. Like, I now I

know, and theater taught me, that if I wanna

dance or I wanna run a dance event or I wanna put on a dance

show, I can just do it. I can just do it.

And so the idea of DJing so I, all

through COVID, I found a wonderful, DJ,

Tasha Blank. And hi, Tasha.

And she was a New York City DJ. She runs lots of

massive events, but she had nothing. She couldn't

do her work, so she started doing it on Zoom. And

I danced with her sometimes twice a week for

all those years. Like, I think I missed one out of all

the times that she was there. And so now she's doing this PhD

training. That's what it's called. And I was like I know. Right?

It's so good. And I want to bring that

experience to my community. Like, I have a community that

lives online. I have a community who doesn't have those kinds of

events around them. And I have a community of women

who are at a stage of their life where they are not likely

to be clubbing. You know? Like, they're they're just waiting for a

wedding so that they can get on the dance floor. And that,

like, I get, like, I get weepy about it because I

know my body has always wanted to dance.

And so I know what it means that there is a space

where you feel welcome, where you feel safe, where

you can do as much or as little as you want.

If you want to lie on the floor for an hour and a half, you

can lie on the floor for an hour and a half. You can work to

your capacity. Nobody like, nobody's

watching you and judging, even though

when I did it with Tasha and when I teach it, like, the

invitation is to be on camera. Mhmm. Not because everybody

wants to be watching you, but because we're we're a community.

Like, we we wanna be together. It's it's just bringing the

energy and creating the space together. So I'm for

me, it's kind of a full circle thing to be coming around

to my first love. Mhmm. And to

be able to share it with people who don't have access

to it. That means that means a lot to me. Absolutely.

It's so interesting that you should say that. So my

coach, friend, colleague, all of the things. Right? So many of them are intertwined

now. He's also a booty yoga instructor. And I

will do every new moon, full moon. Any session that I can make, I

will show up. And it was so different having done

many workout classes, yoga class. Like, you name it. I've

probably gone and done it, especially when I lived in an area where they were

more accessible. And she puts these on on Zoom, and it

was lovely, but I can show up. And she also encourages everyone to be on

camera. And it is the

hardest thing that I do, which isn't even difficult, is turn

my computer on. Because I know that even if I am not going to

do anything except to lay on a blanket on the floor, it is

fine. It is accepted. It is open. And

I have never had, in all of the spaces that I've been in, a place

where I felt like I could do that. Like, yes, you can be told, hey.

Do what you need to do. Show up in a way that you need to

show up. But feeling it and then seeing it modeled

Yeah. Has been so powerful.

And there are times where I will absolutely I had a an ankle injury a

few years ago, and I have never gotten quite back to where my fitness and

flexibility and all of that was. And there's all this that we can make it,

you know, about ourselves. And And so to have a place to show up and

just exist and have that community has been incredible. And

so because of that, I never want to miss that. It's such a

cherished sacred space to be able to show up to. One of the

things that I think is sheer magic, like, we we hear a

lot about and absolutely validly that the online space

has lots of problems with it. But it also

has this. You know, it also has that ability

to can hold a magical space across

the world, across time. Because sometimes

we are doing it with the recording and I always say in my classes, you

know, we magic travels across time, so

don't worry. You know? We are really present for you, and

you're really present when you're present. And I I'm so

thankful for that. If I went ahead and could go back in my life,

you know, people get really stuck on finding their

purpose, you know? And I I think that that idea

of finding your purpose is sometimes quite damaging because instead

of having some agency, we're looking outside of ourselves

forever in and feeling like we can't do anything till we find it.

And for me, I realize now, like, when I was

22, 35, like, what I'm doing now

did not exist. So if I had

tried to force myself into a path, I I'd be

in the wrong place because I have no

doubt whatsoever. Every day I show up, I

have no doubt. I am in the right place doing the right

thing with the right people. Like, I was made

for this. And it didn't it wasn't here before.

Mhmm. It's here now and so am I. How powerful,

God, that was moving. Oh, thank

you. Of course. It's just to be able to

be in a spot, like, where you didn't even envision this for yourself, however many

like, it wasn't in the realm of possibility. And so being open

to what Parks

passion, joy, feeling, being alive. Like, where

where are you feeling inspired, called

to, invigorated? And,

especially, I think, were before I get into my thirties,

the more exciting it is to have those

glimmers that pop up. Right? Like, where are we gonna follow this thread that

pulls through here? What does that unpack? Like, where where do

I get to shine or, like, you know, cap caterpillar into a new

arena that I didn't even know was a possibility? Exactly.

It's just magical. I think the one thing that

helped me was I did have a very strong

sense. It's not really of my values. I mean, I know what my

values are. But it was I started out when I I so I was doing

my doctorate, and then I was like, I'm in the theater all the time, not

in the library. This is telling me something. And so I

stepped away, and I started thinking about what do I wanna do? Like,

what's here for me? And what I thought was, what are the things that have

always been in my life that I love? Like, what are and so those

things so it was the arts, it was helping people, and it

was being in charge of my own thing. Like, I

like to make my own thing.

Oh, I'm so When I read that. But now so I knew those things.

So I had some stars, like, you know, I was on

an adventure in the boat and I had some constellation to

follow, but I had no idea where I was going.

And I and it's been so far, knock on wood, and I hope it

continues to be a grand adventure. Absolutely. The only

type of adventure I think to to have is a great one.

I I'm so curious. We we didn't chat this that much about this, but

the creatives that you're working with. So for me, having come from a

more traditionally, let's say

creatively challenged industry,

it has been

interesting for me to unpack my

own creativity. Haven't been told you're not creative, you're not x y z, you're

not this, you're not that. All the things that I am or I'm not that

I have I've had all these external inputs for years and the things that we,

you know, tell ourselves versus what actually

and who am I? What do I enjoy doing? What are the things that bring

me that joy? And you work with a lot of highly

sensitive creative individuals who I also work with a lot

of really amazing creative individuals that are just absolutely

inspiring because their creativity and that's what I think is beautiful about all of us

as individuals is our creativity shows up in so many

amazingly unique ways. And I think it is

one of the reasons that I value so much of what our clients

do is I have an appreciation for it because,

for example, I get this all the time, I had

we got married, I don't know, 8 years ago now. And

I had all these images, and I wanted to make this beautiful collage wall.

Conceptually, I understand it or gallery wall, I think, maybe is what it is.

I understand how to measure the things and put them in. Like, it's it's

math. We spent, I think, 3 full

days trying to lay it out, put it together, and it was

I felt so dumb. I felt it was it was

frustrating and demoralizing, and I finally chatted with one of my

girlfriends who's a graphic designer. And she was, oh, honey. I can like, give me

20 minutes, and I'll have that taken care of. And in that

moment, it was such I hate to say

come to gee this moment, but, like, such a come to gee this moment. I'm

like, why am I trying to force something that is miserable

when I have all of these people in my life that have all of these

other varied strengths that I'm not even allowing? Like, I'm trying to

force through something that doesn't come that I don't like

when Heidi can do it in 20 minutes. And it's

gorgeous, and she enjoys it, and it's something that she is strong in. And

so getting to see our clients do all of these amazing things, so many times

they show up, and there's value put on accounting professionals or

things of that nature that I don't feel like is always placed on creative

or artistic pursuits that should be. And being able to

see and recognize the value that it's brought, and it's

no less valuable than any of our clients that we work with. And so I'm

so curious with all of the highly creative individuals that you work

with, how you embark on that

journey of being able to show up as your authentic self and being able to

show up as your fullest. Like, what what does that look like for you with

your clients in the work that you do? Yeah. I think you brought up 2

things that are so interesting and and need to generally need

to get on pack. 1 is the question of value,

and 1 is the question of who we are. You know? And

so, a lot of times people, they may know they're

creative and or they when you say to me, like, well, I'm not

really an artist, but and then I'll they'll tell me about their lives and

I'll be like, you did what? It's like, you sewed all their own clothes or

like run the best birthday. Like and like there's a million signs, you

know, about, oh, I write or or things like, I've been writing songs

for years, but I never play them for anybody. And one of the

things I think that's happened in, sort of, societally that creates

some real damage here, is we really only allow the

arts to belong to this tiny

micro scopic group of elite

people. Right? So it's not even you don't even just have

to make an album. You have to have an album that everybody knows. You have

to have a song that's, like, viral and that's top of

this, you know, like, you have to be oh, have you got an award? Is

your book on the New York bestseller list? This is such a small

portion of people. And we think you either get to be that

or it's a nice hobby. Mhmm. And I will

tell you that for most people who have that sort of creative

spirit, this is incredibly demoralizing. Because

either they push themselves to try to be in

that small percentage, which is a tough that's a

tough path. You know? Or their whole

peer group and family thinks what they're doing is a nice thing they do on

Sunday afternoons. But really, it's like their

heart's breath. It's the call of their soul. It's

it's something that if they die with it inside of them, they will

have such profoundly painful regret. And we

don't have a way of fucking about that. We don't have a

way of embracing that. And so often, it's a matter of just

accepting, like, understanding that it has

value for you, that is independent of

money, that is pendant of fame,

and that that doesn't mean it's light and breezy and just

like some fun you do on the weekends. It's

it's a it's a passion. It's a in I

in my programs, we call it devotion. It's choosing the

path of artistic devotion. You're taking yourself

seriously as an artist, whether or not

you ever reach into that world of profession.

And what I see when people can do this, it's

like it's not like putting something on, it's like taking something off. There's

just this release of tension. There's just an acceptance of

who you are. There's just, like, I can feel the ease in my

body when I think about it. You just get to be an

artist. And I think my part of my

definition of being an artist is you're somebody who

understands yourself and the world through

the arts. You know, like, some people do it through business,

some people do it through sports, some people do it through relationships.

But for some of us, we understand people

because we do improv with them, or we've read a 1000000

novels. And we you know, that explore the human condition.

Or that's and then we listen to a song, and that song

breaks something in our heart open and we start crying and we realize that

we're still harboring love for somebody that was in our life a long time

ago. Like, it's the key that unlocks

us and unlocks the world for us.

And so when you don't allow that, you're literally

asking somebody to go through the world without,

like, speaking a different language or without their way of being. Do you

know? And so when when you can do that and accept it and be like,

this is who I am. This is how I move. This is how I think.

Things become easier. A lot of times we think it's gonna get

harder, again, because of the things we talked about, the judgment, the,

you know, and is this of value and your your

partner not really getting it or your dad having

judgment about it. But when you let go of all those judgments

and just let yourself make the things that you're called to make,

the relief is just

profound. Yes. Good.

Yes. Oh, I

just I've experienced that a

few times in my life. The the relief. The profound relief.

Yeah. Thank you. What was it like for you to unpack

your creativity? Like, to start to go, actually, I I do think this

is a part of the way you know? Soul nourishing. Yeah.

Soul nourishing is how I look at it. It is

incredibly easy at times for me to slip

back in. And like I said, I I connect a lot of it with

masking in general and so much of living out here,

in a space where I can exist. I lived out here for 6 months by

myself before my husband moved out. There was a lot of just solo

reflection time that was wonderful,

and it made me realize how disconnected I feel or

how there's a piece of the pie

missing. Right. Anytime I stop

caring for myself through creative pursuits. And

I didn't know that it was missing until I started to allow myself the

time and the space to exist

without having to be productive, without having to put a value on

efficiency or monetizing it. I think as an entrepreneur, it's so easy

to, I'm gonna sell this. How am I gonna x y z? How am I

going to turn this into an income stream? And there's nothing wrong with it being

an income stream, but there's also nothing wrong with it just being

something that you are passionate about, that you were doing, that is fulfilling, that is

nourishing. So for me, it was just it was

incredible to just be able to have the time to exist as

me, not as the accountant, not a gatekeeper,

me. When you tie it to, like, also that feeling

of well-being, like, I see that in my

students, in my community, and, like, all the time.

You know? And I I know I experienced it myself when I I had been

taking quite a while ago now, but I did a year's training of

expressive arts therapy. And it's it and as a

part of it, it's part of your integrity is to be making yourself.

Right? You have to be making and working on your own stuff. So

program finished, I'm back to life, and like 3 weeks later, I'm

just grumpy. Like, I am just so grumpy.

And my sister, Shannon, who has been a part of my work, like, forever, she

was like, do you think it has anything to do with not

having a regular creative practice? They were like, oh.

Yeah. It's mad. Yeah. It's a it is

just it's a part of our processing. It's a

part of our breathing. It's a part of how we let things out. It's a

part of how we let things in. It's a Yeah. And, and once

you experience that, then it's

you never wanna let it go. Mhmm. You never wanna let it go. And

I'll, I'll say to, one of the things

I have found is that a lot of people are so nervous about letting it

take up more space in their life. And I know we've talked a lot about

other people's reactions. And I have found with a

lot of my coaching clients and my

students that their their loved ones are more

accepting than they thought. Sort of in the spirit of what we were saying earlier,

it's like they know that about them. But also, when they start

see, it's not just for you. Like, you, when you are healthy

and happy and well tended and expressed,

then you are a better partner. You've got better ideas. You've

got more energy for other things. Like, you can come more fully

to all of your life when you are more fully

expressed. Absolutely. And I think that

it's something that we chatted about, or I chatted about with Amanda earlier

was, I think that so many times we are told

that we need to fill our cup. You know, you can't pour from an

empty cup, but it's always looked at from the light of

what value or what liquid you have to give to

others versus the fact that you deserve to have a full cup. And,

yes, a secondary side of that is that you

can nourish others. You can show up better for others,

but that's secondary. You deserve to show up and be

fully expressed, fully nourished, fully present for

yourself, and to have that full cup, not so that anyone can can extract

value from you so that you can be whole. Yeah. Thank you

for really pulling that out too, because that's even that's related to the

money piece too. It's like, what I'm doing is a value as

long as there's some extractable

benefit from it. And really, it's just like,

it's the value of being who you are, you

know, and having space for that and time for that. And

that's why we're here. I really think that. I really do.

It was recently talking in my class about how we're

we're sort of purpose built for our art, you know,

and there's such a piece that comes from going,

oh, yeah. I'm a dancer. Like, every time I started dancing again

after not dancing for a while, it's changed my life.

Like, it's literally changed my life because I'm like, oh, this is me. Right?

This is me. And that goes get back to that confidence

piece. Something changes when you're not

pretending. You know, something happens

where you hold like, you have deeper roots. You have

less fissures through your body. Your and your

energy is more potent because it's all

gathered. Mhmm. And that's that's

delicious. Yes. Yeah. Oh. Oh. What a

good word. What a good word. I love I love

delicious for that. But isn't one more delicious energy?

Yes. Yeah. I also I just wanna say, like, in

the same spirit as I I have trouble sometimes with,

the idea of purpose, like life purpose. Mhmm. I

wanna say too something. I I wanna attack,

a myth that people have too, which is if it's hard,

it's not for me. And I just, it

is absolutely true that when we are in the flow, we feel

like when I'm dancing, I'm like, oh, yeah. This is so good. This is me.

And it is also absolutely true that sometimes, like you were talking

about the gallery wall, sometimes it's like, okay. Not for

me. Please let me hand it over to somebody for whom it

is. But sometimes when people are coming

back to their creativity or entering it for the first

time, They're so this is always a heartbreak. I'll have

clients and they're so excited to finally sit down to their art for the first

time in forever. And they're, like, thinking it's gonna be fun and playful

and joyful, and they sit down to it and it is is hard, and they're

filled with heartbreak of all the time they've missed when they haven't been creating,

and they don't like what they're making, and, like, there's all this emotional

gunk. And I always really

just wanna speak to the fact that doesn't mean it's not for you. You

know? And and sometime when I my hardest art to

make peace with has been visual art. And I used to go to classes and

I would just leave I went with my sister too. Shannon's my

my she's my art buddy. And I would leave crying. Like, I

would just leave crying because I out of sheer frustration. And

she said, I think maybe this means we shouldn't go. And I said,

no. This means I absolutely have to go. You

know, I just needed to work. And so some things that help that is

like the more you make, the less pressure there is on any

one moment or any one experience. It and it

doesn't suddenly mean everything about you. And 2,

it is okay if it's filled with emotional gunk.

Like, this takes some time to clear that out and let yourself

cry and mourn the years you missed when you weren't painting

and all of that. That's real. Art is not

art is a 360 degree experience.

It's so know that.

You know? But I just I just felt like I need to say a little

bit of word of encouragement to anyone who's gone back or found out. Or

when we're working on as artists, we're constantly stretching our

edge. Right? We're always growing. We're lifelong

learners. And so that means sometimes it's gonna be hard.

Like, you know, you're not gonna understand how to use that tool. And

you're gonna make a mess. And you're gonna that happens

all the time. And so, I think this is

also one of the wonderful things when you realize that you. That

an artist is who you are or a creative is who you are and

you choose this path of artistic devotion because you realize

I'm, I'm not in it for 20 minutes. I'm not in it for 20 days.

I anticipate that I will be creating for the rest of my life.

And this is hard, but I've got time, you

know, and I can learn and I can hold

it lightly and I can get help when I need it. And I

can give away the parts that don't belong to me and embrace the parts that

do. I think this is the other thing about the sort

of infantilization of art that we think it's for

kids. And so it should be easy and light and fun and playful.

And I I I was gonna say I love fun and playful.

That's not really true. That's not my that's not my favorite flavor.

My favorite flavor is, like, deep and meaningful and sacred. You

know? Not that I never like to have fun, but for but what I'm saying,

there's there's a lot of stuff out there that says, let it be fun, and

that's great. I I I do like to have fun.

But it it's not just fun. Mhmm.

It's it's the unfurling of

you into the world through creativity.

It's gonna grow you in a prof everything you make

will change you. You will never be the same person on the

other side. You will be someone new. And so

it's got that kinda heft to it.

So if you if you want play and

light, there's lots of stuff out there that's available for that, I think,

and pursue that. For some people, that's their full expression is

giggling and laughing and making getting their hands wet with paint. I I

I'll love that too. But

if it feels heavy sometimes or deep

or it's because it's transformative, and

that's okay. It doesn't mean it's not for you. Mhmm. Mhmm.

No. I do think it's so easy to infantilize that. I think that was a

really good way to put it. And everyone's

flavor of art or flavor of creativity is valid no

matter what it looks like. Even if it is easy and fun, even if it

is deep and moody and meaningful, and even if it is some combination

of all of those or none of those, It's

not a cookie cutter, one size fits all. This

is how you do it. This is the right way to do it. And I

think it's so easy to like you'd said earlier, you're

the professional track that is known by everyone that has all of this, you know,

infamy or fame associated with them,

that you can't go anywhere without your name being a household

item. That's not everyone's favor of

yeah. Success, art, expression. You can just

express yourself to express yourself. Yeah. And, I

mean, a part of the joy for me, like, for real,

is that everybody's flavor is so different. Like, when people

come into my programs, I that's what I'm hoping they'll bring.

That's what that's what I want for them is to bring something. And then, the

more they bring it the other thing is that is such an antidote for

comparison. Right? Like that horrible feeling of comparisonitis.

When you realize, like, this is ridiculous to compare because my

gosh, this person is in love with birds, she's got an amazing sense

of humor, and, she loves to work in fine detail.

And then over here, we've got somebody and everything is

moody, and she likes to make a big,

very physical interaction with her art, and she'll always

combine multiple arts. Fin like, Vanessa,

like, I love people. Like, I always am so

heartbroken when people talk about all the things they love in the world. And so,

like, well, we all like, nature is probably the first answer

everybody gives. And then I'll listen to babies, puppies, like, all

these things. And I'm like, you know, sometimes it breaks my heart that we

don't feel that way about people, and there's good reason for

that. I'm not saying there isn't. But I

love people and their potential, and I real one of the

reasons I'm so committed to my work is I sincerely believe

that if we all tap

into our creative capacity, so much good can come

from that. So many things that we just like I didn't know I'd end up

here, so many things we don't have a solution for, so many

places we get stuck, some, like, somebody is gonna

cut when they're allowed and free to bring

their own perspective, is gonna see something that nobody else has been

able to say and say, here. And we can all

go, thank you. You're

enamored with the potential that exists with the creative

expression that could be had, which I think is such a beautiful thing.

Yep. I mean, who who doesn't want more of that? Who doesn't want more of

that, Like, for a lot of

ease. I mean, it's it's just, like, to be able to show up. So

and there are so many people that I think and I think that's why your

work is so powerful as well. So many

people don't feel like their creativity, their artistic expressions are

valid, are valued, are important. And so to be

able to have someone, it's like, yes. Even if there's no

monetary, like, you like Yes. You get to be

valued. You get to show up. That in of itself has

its inherent value. It doesn't need to be like unfortunately, we live in a

capitalistic world where, like, there are things that are valued and weighted

differently. That doesn't mean that you are any less valuable and your expressions

are any less valuable. On the contrary, they can be infinitely more

valuable if we were simply able to get out of our own way.

Exactly. Yeah. Thank you.

Absolutely. I did want to chat about

your offering. Right? Yeah. That's okay. You're

comfortable sharing more about? Yeah. I

my offerings at the School of Creative Magic are really designed,

in pathways. And they are sort of like the

pathway of creative awakening, which is, you know, the

studio yearbook, which is a journal I offer. And that's available. It's

seasonal. But the offer and my devotion program, that's the

pathway of the artist. And it's full right now, won't open again

for a year. But what I do have coming up that is new and I'm

really excited about, It's called the studio, a year of

creative magic. And it's going to be for the entire next

year, and it's really about getting into the rhythm of

practice and the rhythm of magic. So we are going to

go through the year marking the full moons, marking

the new moons, marking, the changes of

season, and we're going to also choose a

creative practice and have a way to check-in on your creative

practice. And I've got so many things for that course.

We're gonna do once a month, we're gonna meet together for a studio session where

we're gonna create together. Once a month, we're gonna take an hour because I don't

know about you, but I don't actually read the stacks of books I

have. So we're gonna have a reading hour together. And what I'm excited

about with that too is that people will share what they're reading and suddenly you've

got a community building your reading list, you

know, of other sensitive creative souls. And

my intention really here is to move

together through a year of

creative magic. So to not be alone and,

practice is hard to maintain. You know? And so

I want there's something about being in a community and having a

structure that will hold the rhythm for you. Like,

we'll be the baseline. Mhmm. Right? And then

everybody can do their own dance within it. So it's called the

studio. The focus is my year of creative magic, and you can find it

at the school of creative magic dot com. How fun. What a

wonderful offering for 2024. I'm really excited about

it. It's literally bringing together practices I've been doing

myself or with my clients for years.

Mhmm. But it's creating it in a, a I almost feel like we're gonna

create a year long narrative. Mhmm. And we're gonna walk that

story together. I have loved

incorporating practices around the full and the new

moon in my own life over the last year, and it has

been just a really beautiful

option to have incorporated. So I'm excited that that'll be part of it as well.

Yes. I do absolutely have books on my shelf that I don't

read. Just like I have shows that I want to watch that I don't. Instead,

I go back to some of the comfort ones or the easiest. Oh,

yes. Jumping into something new. It's yeah.

I think we probably all share a little bit of Yes. Of course. And the

books look really good on the shelf. I know that feeling. I really

one of the things I wanted to do was that, like, all those, there'll be

a live q and a every month. There'll be a live studio session every month,

and there'll be a live reading session every month. And I just

1, I love being live with people. Like, I just love it. I just love

it. So this is a there will be lots of there'll be a lesson from

me every month about creativity and practice.

To be just I'm gonna throw so much in there.

But I think rooted in that sense of being in community and

knowing almost everything's gonna be on a Thursday afternoon. You know, that

Thursday afternoon is the time that I

you know, how many of us say we're gonna sit down and paint or draw

or write our poetry or play our guitar? But if you're like, you know

what? On the 3rd Thursday of every month, I do that

with this community. I I go in there and I say, I'm playing my guitar.

It's enough to get you started that then

and then every Monday you can tell us, I'm gonna this week, I'm gonna work

on this song. And on the end of the week, you can say, I did

it. You know? Because I'm a big I'm a big

proponent of celebration. It's one of my favorite rituals

is celebration. That that's beautiful. No. It's

so easy. I think, especially to not

not show up for yourself if it's just you on your own, especially

with a creative pursuit or a self care pursuit of some sort where,

okay. Yeah. But I had that I had a client that wanted to work with

me, and they they could work together on this afternoon and I did it. And

at the the time you get to the end of the month, those times that

you had carved out for yourself where you hadn't held the boundary, you hadn't had

the accountability there to provide that time. Those times

you're gone. So I do. I I love the

group activities like that and group communities where you can show up.

And there is the aspect of accountability, but the accountability

without feeling stifling. Because I think sometimes there can be that stifling

feeling versus that space that we were talking about where you can hold the space

you want to be there. And there's also others there that you want to be

able to see show up for instead of feeling obligated.

It's feeling excited for. Yeah. It's absolutely not

like, I said I would do this thing. I did this thing. And now I

said, you know, and I share it's more like, come and sit by the fire.

Like, come on. This is the day. Like, we're gonna paint today. Like, come on

or write or whatever. And and it's really one of my

things that I've always done in my work is

try to hold enough structure that it creates

momentum, but have enough freedom that

everybody can feel their own way

through. And that's really the nature of

my core philosophy in everything I do. So this is

like structure. We're gonna read at this time. What you read,

up to you. We're gonna create at this time. And I'll

have some help for how to have an on ramp to that

creative time and also how to get the most out of, like, how

to pull your learning and encourage yourself to come back

to it at the end. But you you get to

sing a song or whatever, you know, pursue or do

stitching or stretch your body for dancing

or that's up to you. So and I love

I love that in my, especially my

devotion program, that we have artists of all different kinds. And really one

of the things I take a stand for is artists are artists are

artists. Like the kinds of conversations we're gonna have, the

kinds of concerns, the things we all will

experience resistance. We there will be special things for each

medium, but, really, there's such a powerful interplay

that happens when people can talk from the different perspectives. And we can realize,

oh my god. I talked to this musician and how they handle practice

taught me so much about how I can show up as a writer. You

know? So and I'll just say too, when I say artist, I don't want people

to get freaked out by that term, like artist with a capital a and it

means this. If you are born with a creative

heart, if you are called to make art, if you understand

yourself in the world better through the arts, then in my

world and at the School of Creative Magic, you are an artist.

Mic drop. What a oh. Oh, yes.

You are an artist. Yes.

Oh my goodness, Jamie. That was

amazing. I was going to ask if there's

anything that you wanted to leave people with and then you just, like,

just popped out. It was just so absolutely,

like, perfection for you to, come

across as that. I I couldn't thank you enough for for being

here and for sharing such a beautiful conversation with everyone that's

listening. And I know anyone that's listening to the podcast,

everything that you have shared, will be linked in here.

We'll have your website. We'll have the program in here. I'm

absolutely going to go check that out because that sounds like

yet another beautiful space that I could show up in and

really intentionally pursue those creative,

artistic, ventures that I

think are so easy for us to just tamp down or say we'll do

tomorrow. Yes. Do it

today. Do it

today. Not tomorrow. So thank you so much, Caitlin. It's been a joy to

talk to you. I could talk to you for hours. It's really been a pleasure

to be here and, thank you to everyone who's been listening. I hope there was

something here for you today. I feel like there absolutely will be. Thank

you, Jamie. Thank you. That's a wrap

for this episode of the Wealth Witches podcast. I hope our magical

money talks have left you feeling empowered and inspired.

Remember, wealth isn't just about dollars in the bank. It's about abundance and

financial freedom in all aspects of your life. I'm Caitlin Magnuson

encouraging you to keep challenging the status quo and embrace your inner witch on

this financial journey. Until next time, stay magical.

Hey there, magical listener. Are you ready to take your financial journey to the

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