Modern medicine has achieved extraordinary breakthroughs — from lifesaving surgeries to powerful pharmaceuticals.

And yet, millions of people are still searching for healing.

Chronic illness is rising. Burnout among healthcare professionals is at an all-time high. And many patients feel like something essential is missing from the system designed to care for them.

What if the problem isn’t simply the treatments?

What if the real issue is that medicine has been looking at health through an incomplete lens?

In this episode of Beyond the Pills podcast, host Josh Rimany sits down with physician and thought leader Anoop Kumar to explore a powerful question:

What if consciousness is the missing piece of healthcare?

Dr. Kumar has spent years working within the traditional medical system as an emergency physician while simultaneously exploring deeper questions about the nature of health, healing, and human experience.

Through this journey, he began to see a pattern.

Modern medicine excels at addressing the physical body — diagnosing diseases, managing symptoms, and intervening during crises.

But health is not purely mechanical.

Human beings are not simply biological machines. Our health is shaped by our perceptions, emotions, beliefs, relationships, and the deeper patterns that govern how we experience reality itself.

This conversation explores what happens when medicine expands beyond the physical body and begins to consider consciousness as a fundamental part of health.

In this powerful discussion, you’ll discover:

• Why modern medicine often treats symptoms without addressing deeper causes

• The “hard problem of consciousness” and why it matters for healthcare

• How perception and awareness influence the body’s healing processes

• Why many healthcare professionals feel disconnected within the current system

• How a new paradigm of medicine could integrate biology, psychology, and consciousness

Dr. Kumar explains that true healing may not come from better pills or technologies alone, but from understanding the deeper patterns that shape human experience and physiology.

When we begin to see health through this expanded lens, medicine transforms from symptom management into a pathway for deeper alignment and healing.

If you’re interested in the future of healthcare — or you’ve ever felt like something essential is missing from modern medicine — this conversation will expand the way you think about healing.

Tune in to this episode of Beyond the Pills podcast to explore why the next frontier of medicine may not be technological.

It may be consciousness itself.

💊 Join The Beyond The Pills Community Today, Unlock True Healing Tomorrow!

https://askjosh.gobeyondthepills.com/

120_Anoop_K

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Join me and other practitioners as we guide you towards vibrant health, body, mind, and spirit, and move beyond symptom management into true healing. Welcome back everybody to Beyond the Pills, um, podcast where we explore the powerful intersection of ancient wisdom, modern science, and uncover the essence of true healing body, mind, and spirit.

Uh, Dr. Anup is a physician, a philosopher, an architect of a consciousness based approach to health. Board certified in emergency medicine, and he spent years on the front lines of modern healthcare before realizing that symptom management alone could never deliver true healing. We have that income. Uh, that realization led him to explore deeper questions.

He believes that behind every healing experience, there's a pattern. That understanding this pattern may be the key to transforming not just medicine, but the way we understand ourselves as human beings. Today we're gonna unwrap that, explore the why, uh, the current healthcare system is struggling and producing real healing, and really getting into the nitty gritty of what's unfolding for him and the idea of consciousness as the fundamental to health and wellbeing.

The informational problem in modern medicine and how patterns of healing appear across body, bio biology, physiology, psychology, and spirituality. So now this platform is almost, is here, right? New? Of course. May, may. Let's build this together, brother. Uh, welcome back to be on the Pills.

Anoop: Hey Josh. Thanks so much.

Like real, we've created a prototype, so let's,

Josh: um, yeah, I was like. Let's dive in. Catch me up because last time we talked, I think both of us are on the same trajectory and I think there's this pattern of wavelengths that are matching because literally I was on like LinkedIn and Facebook the other day.

Anoop: Yeah. Yeah. We talked about vision and we talked a lot about. The living codes with just nutrition, movement, connection, and rest, which is kind of like the access points that everybody has to health. Um, and since then, pneumo has moved quite a ways ahead. Um, and we've created a, a really, a system for healing.

And what we say is that the general approach to healing is not just about what you do, which we know somewhat about, right. That the lifestyle changes and things like that. It's really about who you are also. And that's really where I think we have so much to explore today. Because when you look at what medicine thinks, who we are, right, what the current system thinks, it primarily pens us as physical things as the atomic structure, as the physical body.

What we are in our model of whole human anatomy is we are fundamentally of the nature of consciousness that patterns as information, as energy. As mind and ultimately as body itself. The physical structure, the overcoat that, that Josh and Anup are wearing now. And I think there's good philosophy and science behind this, and I believe the new healthcare system is gonna be structured around this.

And that's the prototype that we've created around these fundamental core models that place consciousness at the center of who we're

Josh: Mm. I love this like, and I'm. I'm very grateful today to have long form content because

Anoop: long,

Like there's really good timing. I don't believe there's a coincidence to anything anymore. It's all synchronicity. Yeah, because the other piece to that is I believe other segments of. Humanity are moving towards this too. Like consciousness with raising consciousness in entrepreneurship. Yeah. And so let's stick to the healthcare side because that's the space you and I have been called to play in this space.

So you said consciousness at the forefront?

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: I wanna expand on that first.

Anoop: Yeah. Well, '

There's a gut brain connection, there's functional medicine. But my. Pattern that I kept seeing over years and years was we still looked at the body, even though we said mind and we said energy, but now it's, I feel like we've gone through that component of, let's call it awareness or matter of factness, too real.

So I wanna dive in there because. Consciousness is who we are.

Anoop: Right.

Josh: I'm not a pharmacist churn healer. That's just the things I do.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: I am me, I'm my soul. Yeah. There's a print here that allows me to connect in that field and understand this on a deeper level. So you we're, you're bringing it into this, this, the conversation, if you will, of what True.

Anoop: Yeah. And look, let's make it, let's make it very simple and plain and try to approach it where, from a very simple, rational perspective, nobody has ever experienced a physical body or the physical world without consciousness.

Nobody in the history of humankind has ever experienced what we call the physical body. In the absence of consciousness, right? And yet what we try to do is put the physical body first and then we try to derive consciousness from that, right? And, and that's called the hard problem of consciousness. In philosophies, we're trying to figure out if you have a bunch of atoms, how do you get consciousness?

And we haven't solved that problem. And the reason we haven't solved it is because we have the whole thing backwards, right? It's because conscious is fundamental. And if you ask well. What about it isn't gonna work the other way. Well then if you have consciousness, how do you get physical stuff? We do it all the time in dreams all the time.

If you look at it even more subtler, that's what we're calling the emotions, the energies, that course through us. Raz, for example. We have the different chakras with like the root chakra, you have the heart chakra, you have the third eye. These are energies that are cosing to us. If you go even subtler than that, you get these non-local information patterns, past lives, intergenerational habits, intergenerational trauma, for example, out of body experiences.

So you have a completely coherent, rational model that validates what all of us know innately in our hearts, that we are much more than physical parts and is completely consistent with science. Also,

Josh: I think the and is so important there, right? So impactful and what I'm getting through in my own world.

Taking away something rather than restoring balance.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: So I was, I was messing with this the like, big time the other day and I, I wanna talk to you about how I kind of came up with this is it's beyond functional medicine. We know this, right? There's this, there's energy. That's why I always say body, mind, and spirit and spirit is energy.

Matter or. Energy particle or wave. It's both. It's not one or the other. It just depends on how you're observing it in the moment. You said awareness, right? That is consciousness and being aware that you are aware is that piece. And so I, how does this fit in? You said simple and we talked about this earlier, the, the, the question.

I don't even wanna call it a challenge, but how do we say this in language that hasn't really been spoken in this way, in know, in, in the textbooks, in, you know, 'cause it's not just the practitioners. We've had lots of them on this show that are kind of in this space of like, here, but I really feel here and I wanna be here.

Like keeping it simple, explaining it to providers, PAC practitioners, and really people.

Anoop: I think as you said, there's a readiness for this, and I think most people instinctually already have this sense. You know, this stuff it, it was being called Woo, I don't know, 20 years ago, 10 years ago. Some people may still call it this, but the bottom line is people feel energy.

We know we are conscious. So when you look at it like this, these are all plain facts. Nobody really disputes these things. What we have not done is say, Hey, if we are experiencing this and it's real. Why don't we have a model for it today? Right? That's where the credibility comes, because as long as it remains anecdotal, right?

You'll call it one thing. I'll call it one thing. The other person calls it one thing. Some people talk about three aspects, two aspects. The problem is there's so many versions of this going around that we haven't had a model that brings it all together, and that's where the credibility comes now. The infinite versions are fantastic because there is no correct model.

How do you test for something? Mm-hmm. Well, you need a model that's consistent so you can test it. If the words change every time, if the model changes every time, it's very difficult to test and validate. So I think number one, realizing that people are ready for this. Number two, the vast majority of people experience these things and know about them.

But the key thing is a lot of people don't feel comfortable talking about it publicly, especially in a professional environment.

Josh: Yeah.

Anoop: Because there have not been these stable models that people talk about. And that's the problem that we're solving with the core models.

Josh: I love it. Well, and that's, that is part of the challenge 'cause I talk to, to.

Because they're afraid if the company they're working for is gonna, or their, their license is ripped or the FDA comes down and, and says something like, I've been playing with this in my, my, I, I love being an entrepreneur. 'cause you can control some things like. I'm looking at frequency in my compounds.

Anoop: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Josh: Like fre putting in frequency medicines. Mm-hmm. And not just from your thought, but from some actuality kind of component where you can maybe quantify these things. How do you. Put that in that simple language with that structure. Where are you, where are you with that today? Can you explain where Pneumo is in this structured approach?

Right. Your head, your neck, your chest. We learn all these basic parts.

Josh: Kids are going through it right

Anoop: now. That's rare. Yeah, absolutely. And that's, it's valid and it's important and it's incomplete by itself. So our core models, the central one is whole human anatomy that describes the human being at the level of body, mind, energy, information, and consciousness.

That's the fundamental core model. A very simple way of saying it is, it's who you are. So when we ask who am I? Are we just physical parts? No. We are all five of these layers. So that's who you are. What about what you do? That's what we talked about last time, Josh. We spent a lot of time on what you do, which is the living codes, nutrition, movement, connection, and rest, and the formula we give very simply.

When you access any one, the effects percolate outwards to all of the different layers. That's multi-directional healing. What we have today, what I use in the emergency department, by virtue of the mechanisms that we have studied, you have studied the same mechanisms in terms of receptors that get activated in pharmacology.

What we have today is unidirectional healing, meaning that you activate the physical structure and then you cross your fingers. If you have a physical problem as a physical structure, then it can activate. Let's say, for example, a beta blocker, right? You block the beta receptors on the cardiac cells and you can decrease heart rate, right?

We are leaving so much on the table. Yeah. So multi-directional healing says, understand your whole human anatomy, and by using what you do, which is nutrition, women connection, rest, and applying it to who you are, body, mind, energy, information, consciousness. You get what you get. Multi-directional healing.

Start at any access point and let healing spread in all directions.

Josh: I love that. I love the, the phrase multi-directional healing because it does. You have to put plain Lang, like if you even went to multidimensional healing, you're gonna lose like three quarters of the population. Right,

Anoop: right, right.

Josh: So words matter.

Anoop: Words matter.

The doctor is not here to diagnose only the problem and take it away. What you're talking about is when you're accessing these different points, it's, it's very, it is neurodivergent for me because you're seeing it from this. Five D puzzle, right? You're moving it, it might be over here, it might be over here.

Anoop: Yep.

Josh: That whole, when we talk whole body, we don't talk body, we don't talk.

And where do we, where does healthcare go? Because we've incentivized the opposite, have we not? Yeah. We've incentivized physicians to get down to the layer of specialization of one side of your pinky. Right. That's where the healthcare system goes. Is I, I'm kidding, but like

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: You know, if, if something's wrong with you, go to that specialist.

Right. And then we decompartmentalize I know functional medicine has brought it back into some level of wholeness. Yeah. We've gone from, you know, allopathic medicine to, you know, it was, it was, it was. It was complimentary at some point then it was integrative. So we've gone down this road of, now it's been called functional.

Yeah, healing. This is where healing happens. That intersection, and you've experienced it in your way. I've experienced it in my way in multi different ways. Meditation is being big for me. Plant medicines, studying and studying the ancient wisdom side of that. We're bringing some of that back, but applying it to the modern day.

Like, because we have incentivized really getting down to the, the. The, the cell, right? This piece of you that's broken to now going on, I, what I would call this spectrum of treating it in many dimensional places from a whole perspective.

Anoop: Yeah. And, and, and that's what, that's what our core models are all about, right?

The, the what you do, the who you are and the what you get. And, and the real key piece is that who you are, when we appreciate all of what we are, when we model that, when we declare that. Everything else starts falling into place, right? Why do we focus so much on pills and surgery? Because we're focused on the body, right?

So it's all about declaring. Saying, Hey, yeah, this is what I'm, I do experience this. Why isn't it modeled? So we need those complete models. So those are the the three of what you do, who you are and what you get. And there are two more models beyond those three. And that is the next one is why it works.

And this is key. Why does it work? Right? So why does multi-directional healing work, why is it that if I drop a pebble into this area of the lake that. The concentric rings spread out to all areas of the lake. Why does it spread multi directionally? And that's key to understand that these five layers of who we are, body, mind, energy, information, consciousness, they're not distinct hard layers with concrete walls between them.

And it's the same way for who we are. I mean, we're saying body, mind, energy, information, consciousness, but these aren't hard and fast. These capture ranges of experience of what we are. And because there is no wall in between. Because they're all the deepest layer, which is consciousness patterning itself at greater and greater levels of density and localization from consciousness to informational, energetic, and informational.

Therefore, multi-directional healing works because there is no barrier, and that's what we call mind body flow theory. It is the mind that flows as the body. So when we're looking at the mind, when we're looking at Josh's mind and anoop mind, it has a correlation with the body. Naturally. You can see happiness, you can see excitement.

You can see what a person's feeling. Nothing mystical about it. Why? Because MINDBODY flow theory says it is the Bo mind that patterns as the body. So that's the fourth core model, right? So we have the living codes, which is what you do. We have whole human anatomy, which is who you are. We have what you get, which is multi-directional healing.

And that's three minds framework, and what we say, Josh, is that if we really want to understand health. If we really wanna understand health, if we really want this to be about healing, about cure, about human potential, we cannot leave anything unsaid. We cannot exclude anything anymore. We can't say, oh, well that's something else.

Oh, well that's philosophy. Oh, well that's spirituality. Oh, well that's science. Oh, well this is experience. No, everything matters. Everything counts, and we need models today, and we're ready for models today that describe the entire range of human nature, of human experience and what this cosmos is, and that's what the Pneumo core models offer at Pneumo Core Health.

That's why I love where you went with that is like it is. This, we are ready for this. We are exploring our way, our consciousness in this way. And then you and I and everyone in this, like I would call 'em, the, the tribe of people doing these things nowadays is, is putting it into that structure where what you said is one, what is, I'm gonna hold that 'cause there's a question in there, but like we, we've got this space where we, we can treat it as a whole.

And there's a relationship between them, but they're not walls or barriers. Like, oh, I'm just gonna do mine today because, and, and yeah, we do know this. We don't have to remind people that the placebo effect has been around for a hundred years and the mind does create health, but it's not in a vacuum.

Because that's what I'm having conversations on the other side of this with people that are highly spiritual.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: Like the, the spirituality of science is the same. It's just how you reference it and how you observe it in that context.

Anoop: Yeah, and that's really important. You know, the, the, you said it well that it doesn't happen in a void.

Looking at consciousness and fundamental as fundamental is not saying that it's, it's not an ideological position that says that, well, this is it, and people have to see it this way. It's merely saying that if we look at it this way, it opens up the doors to everything. We lose zero of what we know now.

We lose zero of the benefits of allopathic medicine, of technology, and we gain everything from every other tradition across time. That's really the point. That's what we're talking about. It's not an exclusionary method. It's actually a way of including everything and also bringing, being able to bring reason, science, testing, validation to it.

Josh: I love it. And if it it, here's the fun part. What we're, what's what you're saying? Like it feels good. It feels right. You can't,

Anoop: yeah,

There's no double blind placebo controlled studies and the science has not been validated, like the whole thing where they based their whole decision making prowess around. Even though they're off labeling almost every drug in prescribing it, which makes it fun for me because it's like, no, you do this all the time, but you're still staying in your zone.

What is your, when they're still stuck in the intellect side, not this knowing in intelligence energy, like. Or maybe the other question is, is like, great Anoop. I love what you're saying, but I don't have time for that. I don't know what I'm doing. Eh, go ahead. Go do it.

Anoop: Yeah, yeah. Well, so I mean, a few answers to that.

There are studies on this stuff, number one. Number two, if a person says there are no placebo controlled trials, right. Sometimes the problem. Then you are eliminating the placebo effect. So if I'm controlling for placebo, if I'm saying, well, I'm not going to account for something I don't understand, which seems to be helping people heal, that doesn't count.

Well wait a second. You can't throw that out. That's the whole study.

Josh: I'm glad

Anoop: That's the whole thing we're talking about. We're saying that what is being referred to as a placebo effect are mechanisms of action. Are identifiable, describable and repeatable, but they're not happening at the body layer.

That's your second answer and your third answer is go to Pneumoccal Health and click on Pneumo AI and ask it about the evidence. Ask it about the evidence for whole human anatomy and how to see a complete human being. So you got three good answers right there, Josh.

Josh: I love it and I love that you brought, you ju you eloquently dragged in the placebo effect as something that's we should be nourishing.

Anoop: Absolutely.

Josh: That's the one piece I get the pharmacist students on is like, Hey, you've heard of the placebo effect, right? And I was, they're like, yeah. And I was like, well, why do we wash it out? Like why aren't we looking at. Why 30 people, 30% of people get better off the stuff we don't do. Right? Yeah. And this, this does address it though.

Anoop: Exactly.

Josh: It doesn't, we, we don't, it doesn't, it does exist. You sh we, we know it because you've named it. Yeah, you, you're just washing it out so you can prove that your thing works.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: Against it. But let's start over here and have the conversation around those.

Yeah. Because to me, there's a big return on everybody's investment when we can teach someone to do that part and nourish it more.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: It's in its belief, it's the biology. We know some of the things we know now, again. If I had to sum our conversation up today is like right place right now, right? This is where we are.

The biologic drugs are gonna bankrupt us, and we're, and we're, we're keep moving against nature instead of working with it. And I feel like the model that you're creating and we're creating here around these con not even concepts anymore that it's true, is like all of that is so foundationally important, but it works.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: It's less expensive, right? It's it's

Anoop: accessible

Josh: food. It's more meaning to it.

Anoop: Yeah. And, and it's accessible to everyone, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Anoop: Who doesn't have consciousness, right? And, and, and who doesn't have access to some form of nutrition, right? Even if it's nutrition of the mind. Um, movement, connection, rest.

So we need to, part of this conversation is redefining how we understand healthcare. Healthcare is not a hospital system. Healthcare is not the clinic. Healthcare is not the pill. Healthcare is is not the surgery primarily. It is also those things, but those are actually the much smaller percentage of what healthcare is.

The vast majority of healthcare is who we are and who we know that we are, how we speak of ourselves, how we understand all the layers of who we are, the actions that we're taking. That's 80% of healthcare. That's a novel concept because we're so used to think of healthcare as physical structures that are dissociated from us outside in the world.

Josh: which is why I, yes, and why I love studying. Indigenous practices and healers and Shama shamanism is because there was that, that was the fundamental belief before we had all the technology.

Yeah, because that's, it's all, they were so connected to nature and, and the you and the, the spirit, the energy of it. They call it spirit. I call it god, universe, spirit. It doesn't matter. It's Gus to me now, um, is. That, that interconnection of that web, which causes the components of innate healing, right?

So my question that came to me is thinking about this is like where, what do you think are the biggest challenges to this paradigm? Pivot, move shift. Like we're we're redefining things in a big way because we went from kind of like one to five.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. And they all exist here today. Yeah. In different ways.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: And so

Anoop: in terms of the challenges, you know, I don't really see that many challenges, to be honest.

I mean, yes, our, our level of awareness and what we're aware of, that's something that's always growing. But here's the thing. Look, I can tell you, even among my colleagues, uh, physicians, nobody really believes that we are fundamentally a bunch of parts. Very few people, if any, actually believe that. But here we are in the system that models ourselves that way, you know, and that's a difference.

So if there's anything, maybe it takes a little bit of courage speaking up, you know, people who are in the profession speaking up, uh, like pharmacists, like physicians, nurses, people in healthcare, administrators saying, Hey, you know what? We all kind of know this and, and behind closed doors, we all talk about this in some way.

That gives some rational credibility that allows the science to continue and progress and, and puts it under the microscope of science, which we should. This isn't about hiding from science, if it's real, if it's true, it should be supported by studies, which it is, and we have to design those studies carefully as well, so that we're not excluding the very thing that we're looking for.

So in that sense, Josh, I don't know. I don't really see that many barriers. I think we're here, like it's happening right now and it's evolving right in front of us.

Josh: I love that answer because I think when you step into your truth and you step into the loving intelligence of what we're talking about is you're not stepping in this from a, an oppositional point of view.

I, I do believe, and, and maybe this is a sense you're thinking too, because I sense that. Even the powers that be, because we know humanity is still where it is in some ways, like greed, power control, VC capital, money, like all this stuff. But we're seeing this effect now where nature always wins. Nature always wins and humanity, and we're at that place of decision point, like, um, choice point.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: And acting like the change.

Being the change ourselves, which is always number one. And I think that's a big piece that I've learned and that I've. Taught to many, uh, pharmacists that I've, I've trained is like, you have to become what you're doing. You're not doing it to somebody. And that is a huge difference when we're talking about healing instead of practicing, you know, physical body medicine, you know?

We're seeing this kind of global awakening happening. And part of that is the polarity rises.

Josh: Yeah.

Anoop: Right? And, and, and things come to a head. Before they really open up because the fears that are there, they're entrenched and that mind digs its heels in, right? It because it's terrified of what a new way might look like.

It might be scary to think of oneself as. Open enough to be of the nature of consciousness or energy or information. Part of it might not be that it's woo, but it might just be too scary for me. I don't know if I can handle all that. I dunno if I can handle generations. I dunno if I can handle outof body, I dunno if I can handle et cetera, right?

We can identify those and talk about those, but it, it's like the tide that raises all boats. Like we're all in this together and it's all happening together, and whatever happens come what may, we can look at each other. We're all in our boats and we can know that we're all connected by this ocean.

Josh: And, and that's why that where, where, where I've learned from this experience in my own way is.

There are some things your intellectual side cannot explain, and this is one of those things you said the word, the reason I have the word collective and the beyond the pills thing is because it is a collective, it's bigger than one person. The part is the whole, if we're talking consciousness, we understand that.

But that works in healthcare, that works in finance.

Anoop: Absolutely.

Anoop: Yeah,

Josh: and that's the, that, that's why I said like he, like there's been many civilizations of man and nature evolution happens with or without one person.

That's what I think we're really grabbing at today is the evolution of medicine is here. Yes. And it was, and it happens in the way you least expect it, which means it, it's real. Um, and that's okay. Like be, I, I, I think we're in a golden age right now because I love being a part of something new. Exciting, but also impactful.

You know, like how many times have, have you been in your. Your world, you know, even as a kid, like, like world peace has always been something we've said, but then it's like a figment because there's so much war and strife and everything going on. It's like, well we, that is completely possible if we move in these realms where this happens.

Like, like, let's get down into the the present moment, right? Like, where do we go from here?

Anoop: Take a moment and check in with yourself. And see where you are right now.

See where your body is, see where your thoughts are. See what your energy feels like,

and see if you can peek into the generations that have come through as you peek into the dreams and the non-local experiences that you have and what they might be suggesting about where you are.

Josh: And then finally peek even behind that curtain

just by doing this. Are we not aware that this is who we are in our entirety?

This simple awareness, this simple practice, is what ultimately becomes formalized as models and systems and sectors and all the fancy things in society, but it's root is this living experience right now, and you can check this for yourself actually. We have a thing called the Pneumo score. If you go to pneumo.health, click on more.

Josh: Ooh, I love it, man. So it's Pneumoccal Health.

Anoop: Yeah.

Josh: Um, check it out guys. Like, this is amazing. Like we, we, we have ta Like that's what's fun about this part now, like, and, and we've felt it, right? We felt this shift and we've start thinking and like. That whole con concept of like when you get to a certain stage in your life and you, you think of the one thing is like there's more, right?

Anoop: yeah.

Josh: I just wanted to honor your efforts because I know the. How difficult sometimes this can feel to people going against what you've been taught and your colleagues like, you're an ER trained physician. You know the challenges of being burnt out and working and doing these things, and having that knowing inside you that you're here to do just what you're doing now.

It's so clear. It's so true. I can see it in your face and your energy like. You're, you're happy because you're doing what you, you know, you need to do and you're called for that. And so thank you for sharing. Um, and I look forward to exploring more of these conversations, but also participating in this collective movement towards true healing.

So thank you.

Anoop: Thank you, Josh. I appreciate you spreading the word and, and having so many wonderful guests on and creating this community, um, so that we can share these experiences and these platforms and move towards that society that we know is possible.

Josh: Wonderfully said, I think that's a really good place to put a pin in this conversation for, for a later date.

So let's do it together. It's fun.

Anoop: Let's.

Josh: Oh, that was a fun one, guys. Uh, whew. I feel very fulfilled today. Um, thank you for the gifts that continue to come. Um, go check 'em out. Pneumoccal Health, take the quiz. If you're a practitioner, reach out. Like, let's, let's continue the movement 'cause it's already started.

That's a wrap, guys. Until next time, stay well.

Anoop: Thanks for joining me today on Beyond the Pills. If our mission

Until next time, live better and stay well.