How do you cope as a leader when a traumatic situation occurs?

On this weeks episode we speak to Erin Robinson, Head of Secondary, Atlanda International School and Elsa Donohue, Head of School, Vientiane International School.

They discuss the traumatic situations that occurred in their relative schools, how they dealt with it, and give us some wonderful leadership insights for how we too can lead through trauma situations.

Julia Middleton 0:01

Julia Middleton 0:43

Welcome, welcome. Welcome. Julia Middleton expedition leader. You are most welcome to this episode, which is about trauma, leading trauma. And women who lead trauma and very specifically women who lead schools at moments of trauma. I was absolutely fascinated by the stories of two women, Elsa, and Erin. Let me tell you them, let me tell you them. Elsa is the head teacher of a school in Jakarta. She and her school and above all her colleagues went through a level of trauma that is, to be honest, very hard to imagine. Leading in that situation for Elsa was about leading trauma but also about leading a school not just through trauma, but through a deep, deep, deep sense of injustice. Because the trauma was not right, or fair. So I asked Elsa first, if it's accurate to say that the situation just just simply exploded on the school and on them all. Here's what she said.

Elsa 2:17

I don't know if the word is exploded. But in a very rapid amount of time, I think the circumstances and events progressed to a point in which it felt that things were getting out of control. Does that make sense?

Julia Middleton 2:38

Totally.

Elsa 2:43

Yes, there may have been little mini explosions along the way. But I think mostly is when I think about the crisis that happened at our school, I think of how rapidly things seemed to get out of control. And I think about how complex it was and how at the beginning, I and many others were so naive, because we were certain that we had procedures in place and that we had, that there was no way that the allegations being made, which were actually false allegations in the end, but with incredibly horrific outcome for some of my colleagues. Yeah, it's not exploding, but I would call it a little bit of imploding on me personally, with all of the emotions that you can imagine one can go through. Concern, certain guilt, anger, fear, right. And, and not just for me, but for those that that I work with, for those that I'm supposed to be leading.

Julia Middleton 3:49

Some of whom are now in prison.

Elsa 3:52

They were. They ended up doing seven years, unjustly so. Right. So there's a lot of details about the case itself. But I think if I was to summarise it, it's just a pretty big injustice that happened. There were times in which we actually wondered, oh, my goodness, could this have happened, right. And in those moments, I don't know that this would end or Jakarta were exploding. I will use the word imploding. But I think I definitely was. I think that as a leader, I experienced a tremendous amount of self doubt. I questioned a lot of things internally. And I held back quite a bit about some of the emotions and things that I was feeling as a person and as a leader, right conflicted, conflicted because obviously, we don't want anything to happen to any of our students and when allegations like that are made, your first inclination is to listen to the child, to take into account what has been shared. And as time goes by, then you start responding to the fact that there's no way this happened. And then the attention then shifts to the adults with whom you work that you see rapidly being embroiled into this, quite frankly, almost fantasy-like situation, right. And those of us that were there at the time began to make our way through the, through the maze, in a way that not only sustained us, but actually ensured that our kids were still learning. And that our teachers, you know, through the support we were offering, were able to, to, at least from 730, to 230, keep their focus on on their own purpose of teaching and learning in our community. This is kind of work that you don't do by yourself as a leader. There are certain aspects of the work of a leader in a crisis situation that I would argue need to be handled by a leadership team, but most certainly is teamwork.

Julia Middleton 6:05

Some of my worst mistakes have been delegating the wrong things.

Unknown Speaker 6:09

Yes. So what I did, what I learned in that situation, not to delegate was the communicating in person, to our faculty, and to our parents. And I, and I did not forget in those in those initial, you know, forums and meetings that we have with our faculty, that I had to maintain a pretty stable outlook, right. Throughout the day, I had moments with them in which I was extremely sincere, humble, and open with my own struggles, right, as a as a person and as a leader who was trying to make sense of this and support them and continue to keep our eyes on the price right — of educating our kids. So I think that I learned that when it comes to crisis situations, the communication it needs is something that cannot be delegated.

Julia Middleton 7:05

How do you balance how much you share? I'm sure, it's so easy to tip into sharing too much. Which means that instead of building people's confidence, you actually destroy their confidence. How how do you judge that?

Elsa 7:24

A lot of the communication that I did was actually by being there, by my stance by my humility, but my by my ability to listen, and to again, as I mentioned earlier, as as tough as it was, I, I knew that I had to just be a listening person, a person that parents could feel that was not rebutting, you know. I wasn't rebutting, I wasn't adding any any information to contradict or to dismiss, you know, their feelings and their concerns. So that's an interesting point that I've just realised that a lot of what I communicated about was was non verbally. And by maintaining a stance of openness, I will say that another another thing that I'm just thinking about at this moment is that I had been at the school for three and a half years when this came about, and we had such an incredible high level of trust with the community. That helped greatly and so a message that I've always carried with me is that, you know, building relationships and building trust with parents and students and faculty is paramount. Because it is the right thing to do, right? Like that is 21st century education, at least in my opinion, that that a school functions as a community school, that not one of those key elements feels that their voice is less than, right? And so we had worked on that diligently. And when a crisis hits, 100% there were parents that were super angry and new families that didn't know us were wondering what in the heck is going on in that campus? But overwhelmingly Julia, from the very beginning, we had a gigantic team of supporters, parent supporters, who knew me as a professional and and who knew the school well, and quickly put together the fact that there was no way this could have happened.

Julia Middleton 9:43

Part of it must be also not sort of almost going too far, not sort of letting it all hang out. Did you ever get the balance wrong?

Elsa 9:54

Oh, for sure. For sure.

Julia Middleton 9:58

Which way?

I overshared with with a with a family, with a couple with whom I thought, you know, and that a couple, I can't get into the details, but I will say that in the oversharing, the couple used their own interpretation of what I had shared, they spun it to their advantage. And then all of a sudden, they were one of the three families that were making the now adding more allegations, right. So, yes, that was an example of an overshare that I regretted and I did, because I thought I could trust them. This is a family... again, I had at least three and a half years of a professional relationship. They were always there for the parents' sessions, you know, they were always present on campus. And so yeah, I mean, that that's, I did it because I wanted to be human. And their child was in the same classroom as this other child. And so I wanted to reassure them. And in doing so, I think I overshared.

And then possibly, did you ever get the bounce wrong the other way? Of that feeling where actually people felt that they were talking to a sort of stone wall.

Yeah, yeah, at the very beginning with the faculty, because I felt that I had to be strong. I thought that as a leader, how I you know, in my mind I was thinking and I do remember thinking about this, I can't fold, I can't show that I'm scared. At the very beginning, as things began to spin out of control, yes, I was being stoic. And I thought that that was what was needed for the faculty to feel like this person, you know, in their midst, who was supposed to be their leader is not freaking out about, you know, all of these angles that were being thrown at us. That is, you know, there was a, there was a seminal moment moment in which the head of school and the deputy head are telling me they're going to remain in jail. And you are a suspect as well. Or a person of interest. And, yeah, that's, that's what's going on. Right. And I remember bawling, I mean, just having one of those moments when the cry just came from the gut. Because I had been holding it in and saying to them, there's no way I can start the school year, because we were about a week and a half before we welcomed, you know, students on campus. This conversation happened while we were doing orientation for new faculty. And I remember saying there's no way I can do this, I can't do it. I can't, you know, open up school, knowing they're in jail, knowing that I'm in danger as well. And, and they looked at me, and these are two individuals, two gentlemen that I respect greatly. They looked at me, and they said, yes, you can. You have it in you, you're not alone. Yes, you can. And you're gonna do it. Right. I can't say that I believed them when they said that to me, but it was a seminal moment. Because it taught me in hindsight, a few months later, we opened up school. And as hard as it was, we did it. And at the very beginning of the year, when a member of my faculty of the leadership team said to me, stop pretending you're okay. Right. You've provided so much support for other people. What about you? And yeah, that was also a moment in which I went like, Whoa, yeah, I'm not okay. And people are noticing. Right. And that was a turning point.

There are very, very few people who make it to my fridge. And there's something you said to me right at the beginning of knowing each other, which made it to my fridge, and I gotta to read it. Good leaders can't do it alone. They can't either hold the power on their own, and nor can they hold the pain on their own.

Yep. I think I just talked about that, right.

Yeah. I think you learned that the hard way. The other word that you've used on and off, whenever you talk about this is the word consistency.

Yes.

Why is that so important?

I think because it did, it engendered a sense of safety and security and, and trust in what we were doing and how we're approaching and responding to the crisis. I was visible, I was out and about. I wasn't hiding. I was just, you know, people could tell parents and faculty and kids. I kept that part of my belief system actually, as a leader alive and well and consistently so. Right. So it's that idea of walking about, being present being available, and ensuring that that that no matter what, there was something that kids and teachers and parents will count on.

How else did you express consistency?

Consistency message, you know, the consistency of being present, having some routines.

What kind of routines?

This was not initiated by me, but it was actually a group of parents and teachers that thought it would be a lovely idea to congregate every Friday, at this iconic part of the campus in the secondary school, called the Dragon Fountain. And every Friday, Julia, for eternity, for the seven years, this went on, and longer actually. Anybody who wanted to congregated at the Dragon Fountain.

What's it called? The Dragon Fountain?

It's called the Dragon Fountain, and it's an iconic place on campus, right. The dragon is the mascot of the school. And that that location is beautiful, is stunning. It's a place of peace in many ways for, for us. We enjoyed it as such. And so that happened every Friday afternoon. So that consistency, that routine, that was ritual of congregating. Many of us couldn't make it every Friday afternoon, but it was understood that you were either there physically, or in spirit.

Elsa thank you so, so, so much. As I went to sleep last night, I, I sort of saw you in the Dragon Fountain, by the Dragon Fountain. Never been there, but it's etched in my mind now, you being visible, being there, being there to listen, and and in a way to respond with the noise and the chaos of trauma, with silence. And to resist the tempests, with silence, to resist the temptation to fill the silence with your voice, but simply to just hold the situation and be constantly visible. And of course, your point that it was made marginally more bearable and possible to lead this situation because you had built up trust in quiet times. But however much that must have helped, I cannot imagine being in the situation you were in. But just before we go on, you know, you said that you need to be available for people all the time. I just I just want to go back on that because there was something you said to me about being available for people all the time. And a slight danger in that, which I just want to catch. So when somebody comes up to you and says, Elsa, do you have a minute? What goes through your head?

What comes to mind is the many times that I as a young leader found myself in a bind because I said, sure I have an open door, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say for just one minute. It's never a minute. It's typically something that's important to the person that's requesting that minute. And I want to respond with the same level of importance. But I learned the hard way that I couldn't just say sure. Come on in. Right. And so now what I do is tell me a little bit about what you want to talk about. And then they explain and then I go, because this is important to you and I I really want to give it the time it deserves. So how about if we set up a time to, and it works, you know, but I learned the hard way, Julia. You got a minute is not a minute. And you end up in a bind because you're not prepared, you're taken by surprise. Right. And you know, sometimes the surprise is innocuous and sometimes you can mumble and fumble your way out of it. But I think it's unnecessary, particularly in times of crisis.

So we move on from Elsa, we move on from Elsa, and we move on to Erin. Erin, on the other side of the world, in Atlanta in Georgia, a leader in a school in a very, very different situation of trauma. But just quickly, before we get to Eron, I want... two quick points. Firstly, I want to note and acknowledge and salute how honestly and open both Erin and Elsa are in their willingness to sort of jump in and share what they did. And what what they did right and what they did wrong with no frills, the good the bad, and do that for the benefit of all of us. Thank you so so much. I think I also need to, just second point, before we go to Erin, I need to admit that Erin and I have been having conversations, slightly outrageous conversations now for a number of months about a totally unprovable proposition or speculation. And it is that if you have a child in a school, and it the school hits a major traumatic event, you want to hope that the head teacher is a woman, or a man who has spent a long time surrounded by and influence by women. Back to Erin, listen to her story.

So apart from the fact that, that we've all been living in the the trauma of a pandemic, two specific things happened within the last school year that just kind of compounded everything. I had a, an incident of racial injustice, from from students that went viral very quickly amongst the students, and then just sort of both exploited and imploded at the same time. And then I also had, for the very first time in my my career, a student suicide. And I'd never had that before in a school community. And that is a sort of a level of trauma that I don't think anyone can prepare themselves for. Things that that went well, I would say, between the two of them, I think it's the the realisation that when there is a traumatic event in a in a school community, it really shatters people's sense of safety. And they, whether they are directly or indirectly involved, their sense of vulnerability, it just exponentially increases. And so I think what went right, so there's all the tactical things that you have to do. And, you know, kind of getting back to the root of what we're, we're talking about, I have observed male leaders be very good at the tactical things, but then sometimes missing some of the more human community based side of things. And so-

What do you put under tactical and what you put under human?

Yeah, so the the tactical kinds of things are, are the communication pieces. Those are very important. The safety pieces, the organising XYZ actions to happen in response to this immediate kind of thing. So those those immediate operational kinds of things that must happen, you need to alert these people, these things need to happen in this order, that kind of thing. That side of crisis management, and on the human side is more of the care for the mental health and well being of individuals and also the whole the community as a whole. And so, for me, I see a difference between the two and how leaders approach them. And and so thinking about, you know, how do you support a community to recover as quickly as possible. You have to take care of the technical things, but you have to spend an inordinate amount of energy on the individuals and to know that one size doesn't fit all. So that's another thing I've noticed between female leadership, my own and male leadership, that you really have to differentiate the care for individuals, you have to know your community well enough to do that. But not everybody needs the same thing at the same time. So you can't broadcast these these very generic messages that's going to cover everybody, because people are going through things in different kinds of ways, different timelines, all that kind of thing. And then the the community itself. Yeah, it needs, it needs the leader to lead with with compassion. And I say compassion as opposed to empathy, actually, you usually hear about, you know, empathy led leadership, and that kind of thing. For me, compassion is different, because compassion is sitting alongside somebody rather than stepping fully into whatever it is that they're going through. And I think as a, as a leader, you can't, you're going to lose yourself, if you step too much into the empathy. So you have to sit alongside and, and so the community needs that, they need they need to be back in touch with the values of the community. They need reassurances around meaningful action. And they need messages that are — it's interesting, you know, people use the word authentic all the time. It's this balance between being authentic, but just enough, because in in crisis and trauma, you you can't go too far into the the real message, because that message isn't for everybody. So you, you have to figure out how much is just enough that the community needs to be able to start moving on. It's thinking about like, what what comes next. So what that that post traumatic growth, that might happen? And you oftentimes see that where people, something really terrible happens. And then you see people come back together. And so how can you facilitate that coming back together, and then sustain that effort, over the days, the weeks, the months to come? And to know, especially in a school, things are cyclical. So you have this traumatic event, people will remember it the next year, there'll be markers, and it doesn't go away. That's the other thing. It just it doesn't go away, it resides somewhert, it becomes part of the DNA of the place, and you have to pay attention to that. It's not sort of that tactical, we took care of this, and then it's done. It's always there. And so being being mindful of that.

Tell me about this authenticity balancing act.

Yeah. Hmm. That is, I think, for me, that falls into that sort of category of unconscious competence. It's hard to, it's hard to explain what that is. People don't want to feel like you're hiding things. But they also recognise you can't tell them everything. So it's, for me, it's really so much observation, watching people, listening, really listening. What are the things that they're talking about, wondering about? What are all the side conversations so that you can figure out what what is it that I can give them that they need to hear without divulging too much? And so it's very context based, I would say.

And the danger is that you give too little or too much. If you give too little then what happens?

If you give too little, anger, anger, frustration, you lose trust. That's a huge piece of it, you lose a lot of trust. And if you give too much, then it's like, oh, wow, that's too much. And then you lose trust.

I remember my first boss used to say to me, give people enough so that they can say I note. Don't try to give people so much that they're going to end up agreeing with you. Because that's probably not going to happen. All you want is for people to say, Okay, I note.

Yeah. Yes, yes. Just enough to say I get it. I get it. I don't need to know all of the details.

Why do you speculate that women would be better at this than most?

I speculate that the the EQ is just different.

What does that mean?

Yeah, so what I've noticed is that with male leader, it's more formulaic in terms of like, who you pay attention to, like, there's some sort of formula that you follow. Whereas what I've noticed with myself and other women leaders, it's more organic, and more like who you pay attention to, it's kind of like a visual, it's like a spiderish kind of thing, across the community. And it's knowing, it's knowing, all the informal places to pay attention to and not just the formal structural places to pay attention to people. Because, you know, it kind of goes back to like nodes of communication and that type of thing. There are particular people, that other people are going to gather around whether they are a formal leader or not. And I don't know, I, I've just noticed that women have a better sense. Not all women. I mean, you know, it's not exclusive and not all men, right, because there's crossover. But generally speaking, I've noticed that women have a better sense of that. And especially under pressure, under significant pressure, pay attention to that.

Yeah, so I've noticed, again, so with men who actually understand all that, that nodes and all that kind of thing. There's something about when, when it's under crisis, and trauma, there's a there's a defaulting back to more of a hierarchical kind of structure. And so it's kind of like they forget, they forget some of those other things that they know about the community, like, it just doesn't, it doesn't come in to the way that they're thinking about how to move forward. Whereas I've noticed women retain that. They can do both. They can be thinking about that hierarchical structure and all that kind of thing, and also be paying attention and thinking about the networked side of things.

And have you ever had your views dismissed as intuition? Not rational or emotional? Or?

I don't remember. I do recall, I don't know the exact circumstance. But I do recall something about, you know, something like that's not logical. And I think my my response was, yeah, I know, that's not logical. And? Doesn't mean that it's not right.

So the strongest message I'm getting from this is this sort of a whole linear and the messy, alongside each other. Don't get all messy, because there are linear things that you have to do, and don't get all linear, because then you'll miss the voices. It's the good old multitasking stuff, isn't it, making sure that you're playing both things.

On a very large scale.

What else... if you gotta bounce back from that level of trauma.

I think as a as a female leader, I've noticed myself and others don't lead with ego and, and realise, I've realised I cannot be everywhere and be everything to everyone. It is literally not possible. And so what I have to do in sort of that, understanding the informal structure of the community, I have to figure out who are the other people I am going to build up and rely on to support more people that I, I can't get to It's just not going to happen. And to be quite clear with those people, I need you. I need you for these reasons. And I need you to do XYZ kind of thing. That can be-

And don't underestimate people's willingness to step up.

Yeah. And that's also what I mean about the when I said at the beginning, there's not a one size fit all fits all because sometimes it's like, oh, everybody's in trouble. Actually, some people want to stand up and do something. And you kind of don't know who those people are until the crisis happens. And so paying attention and seeing who are those people and also actually, with with both instances, and particularly in a school context, it can and it should be kids, as well as adults. And how to empower kids, and to give them more voice and to get them into the action, and what does that look like, and they need guidance. But it can't just be the adults either.

Erin, your point about authenticity is, to my mind, fascinating. It's a warning. Authenticity, but do it with great care and great balance, and great common sense. I leave both of you, both Elsa and Erin. Just saying that, that my fridge has a lot of your words, on it, not in it. Suddenly realise you might think that I was talking about putting Elsa into my fridge. I didn't mean to put Elsa into my fridge. I mean that on my fridge, I've got these magnets. And some of them they have quotes and without doubt, Elsa's quote, which is so reinforced by the interview with Erin that says leadership cannot be done alone. It's impossible alone to hold the power or the pain of leadership. ascinating episode, thank you so much both of you. I send everybody my love. Talk next week.

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