Get ready for a heartwarming and hilarious send-off to Season 2! Today I’m delighted to be joined by the incredible Clare Pooley, author of the bestselling How to Age Disgracefully.

Interview Highlights:

• Inspiration Behind the Novel: Discover what sparked Clare's idea for How to Age Disgracefully.
• Flawed Characters: Explore Clare's love for writing flawed characters.
• Real-Life Inspirations: Hear about Clare's connections to Bridget Jones and Thelma & Louise, and how these iconic characters influenced her.
• Five Books That Shaped Her Life: Discover the literary influences that have shaped Clare's writing journey, from classic Austen to contemporary favourites.

Book List:

Emma by Jane Austen

Bridget Jones's Diary by Helen Fielding

Rachel's Holiday by Marian Keyes

One Day by David Nicholls

Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin

That's a wrap on Season 2 of Best Book Forward! We've had an incredible time exploring the literary world with our amazing guests. Thank you to Catherine Newman, Nikki May, Marianne Cronin, Susan Fletcher, Josie Fletcher, and Clare Pooley for sharing their insights and passion for books.

Stay tuned for exciting news about Season 3! Follow me on Instagram @bestbookforward for updates and behind-the-scenes glimpses.

See you soon, bookworms 

Welcome back to best book forward, the podcast where I talk to authors about the books that have shaped their lives.

Think of it as like a bookish version of Desert island discs.

I can't quite believe it, but this is the end of season two.

But don't worry, we're going out with a bang.

As today, I'm thrilled to say I have the incredible Claire Pooley joining us.

Clare's novels have captured hearts around the world, starting with her brilliant debut, the Authenticity Project, and followed by the heartwarming the people on platform five.

Her latest novel, how to Age disgracefully, is such a fun read, guaranteed to brighten your day.

Honestly, it's the perfect pick me up.

Claire joins me today to discuss how to age disgracefully and reveals the five books that have shaped her life.

Clare, welcome and thank you so much for joining me on best book forward today.

Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here.

I'm a huge fan of your podcast.

So when I got the invitation, I was like, yay.

I'm a huge fan of your book.

So when you say yes, I was like, yay.

We're very excited.

I'm so happy to have the chance to talk to you about your latest novel, how to age disgracefully, which I loved.

It's such a brilliant read.

So I'd love if you could start off by giving us a little spoiler free look at what the book is all about.

Sure.

Well, the book sort of revolves around a character called Lydia, who is menopausal.

Her daughters have gone off to university, so she's got an empty nest and she thinks her husband's having an affair.

So she's, you know, not particularly happy and she decides to take a job running a council, council led senior citizens social club.

And it's in this community center called the Mandel center.

So cool, because it's supposed to be the Mandela center, but the a fell off, so they call it the Mandela center.

And Lydia's senior citizens social club is at one end, and at the other end there's this council run nursery.

So it's sort of the community centre sort of caters for everybody from cradle to grave, really.

Anyway, Lydia assumes that her seniors, you know, so it's for 70 plus, and, and she assumes that they are going to be, you know, want to spend their days knitting and doing jigsaw puzzles and little games of bingo.

And needless to say, it doesn't turn out like that at all because her group of seniors are a very eclectic bunch and they're all, they're all sort of completely mad in various different ways.

So there's Daphne, who is mysteriously wealthy and doesn't seem to like other people at all.

And there's art, who's a kleptomaniac.

There's Lydia, who is.

Sorry, not Lydia.

I mean, Anna, who is a yarn bomber.

And.

Yeah, I mean, they're just.

They're not at all what she.

What she expects.

And to cut a long story short, the community center, right at the beginning, suffers this sort of terrible event where the ceiling falls in and the.

You know, the senior citizens are desperate to save their center from developers.

So they team up with the nursery next door to try and save the community center.

And all sorts of hijinks ensue.

It is brilliant.

There are lots of hijinks along the way.

And brilliant, brilliant characters.

Let's start off.

So.

It is a funny read.

It's heartwarming.

It's insightful as well.

And I think, as I said before we came on pressed record, I think it's one of my favorite prologues.

It just grabs you instantly.

You talk about this scene in your author's note, which I loved reading about.

And I wondered whether you could share with us the initial spark that inspired the story and how the idea of a minibus full of misdemeanors came about.

Sure.

Well, you know, I got a little bit fed up with reading a whole load of books and watching a whole load of films with older characters who all felt, you know, the same.

They all felt rather stereotyped.

They were generally sort of sad and lonely and inept when it came to technology.

And, you know, they would be saved by, you know, the.

Saved by some younger character who would bring them out of their shell and, you know, and all would be well?

And I thought, you know, that's not the kind of senior citizen I want to be.

You know, I'm in my mid fifties now.

And I feel.

Yeah, exactly the same as I did when I was in my mid twenties.

And I'm pretty sure that when I'm in my mid seventies, I will still feel exactly the same.

So I sort of wanted to explore a book that was about older characters who are really sort of bossing it and who are teaching the younger generation how to deal with life's ups and downs.

So I started thinking about badly behaved older people and about the sort of idea of this community center with a nursery and a senior citizens club.

And I thought, wouldn't it be funny if you had one of those mini buses, like, you see sort of going down the motorway off to sort of a, you know, a day out at the seaside filled with older people and very young kids.

And wouldn't it be funny if they were pulled over by a policeman or policewoman who is looking to arrest somebody?

And everybody on that bus, at least all the adults, think that they are the one that is about to be arrested for various different reasons.

And that scene was so vivid in my head before I started writing.

I thought, actually, what I'm going to do is I'm going to start with that, and then I'll spend know the next, you know, most of the book trying to work out how we got there, so what they've all done and why they all think they're about to be arrested.

So that scene became the prologue, and then it's revisited later on in the book, by which time, you know, as a reader, you know, what they've all done.

It is so brilliant, and it just grabs you instantly.

I mean, I won't spoil it, but the way the prologue ends, you're like, what is this person up to?

What is their secret?

And it is brilliant.

Yeah.

You know what?

I remember when I was sort of reading books and.

And watching things about, you know, how to write a novel, and, you know, there were so many.

In so many instances, I heard people say, or read people saying, you know, don't write a prologue.

You know, publishers hate prologues, editor agents hate prologues.

And so I've always been really nervous about doing prologues, but in this instance, it just felt like the right thing to do.

And I still genuinely don't understand why prologues are not seen to be a good thing, because I think in the right circumstances, they're great fun.

Yeah.

No, I think so.

I like it when you have a taste, and particularly as you come full circle towards the end of a book, and you sort of understand, you know, the snippet that you've been given in the beginning.

So I really like them.

I've not heard that.

I'm not a writer, but I've not heard that before.

I quite like a prologue, especially one written by you, Claire.

So you talked at the beginning about these characters.

They are such a brilliant cast of characters.

I mean, I loved Lydia, art and Ziggy, and, of course, Margaret Thatcher, one of my favourites.

But I would love to start off by talking about Daphne, because she is such a great character.

She is so interesting to me.

Could you tell us who inspired her?

Where did she come from?

Oh, you know, I love Daphne, too, actually.

And I think, I mean, she's not really inspired by any one person.

She's.

She's really the sort of person I want to be when I'm that age.

And so I just took lots of different characteristics from all over the place that I just thought were interesting and sort of, you know, and fun and in a way, you know, do you remember there's a poem that goes sort of, when I'm old, I shall wear purple.

She's sort of inspired by that sort of character.

So, you know, she's, as I said, she's sort of mysteriously wealthy.

She's 70, but she still does Pilates and yoga every day, so she's pretty fit and she's very feisty.

And she carries a walking stick, not because she needs it to walk, but because she uses it as a weapon and as a way to clear people out of her path.

And she's quite spiky.

You know, at the beginning, she's not terribly likable.

And I think following her journey and seeing her become a much nicer person by the end is one of my favorite things about the book.

She wears her hair in a bun, and she has a habit of pulling items out of the bun.

That is exactly what's needed at the time.

So she might have a corkscrew in there or a pen or a sort of screwdriver or whatever.

So, yeah, she's fun.

She has some brilliant moments as well.

She is really fun.

I think, for me, I loved her babysitting.

I mean, I wouldn't want her anywhere near my kids.

But those scenes are so, so funny.

She's never had children of her own.

And so when she's babysitting, she's completely at a loss about how to deal with this baby.

And I love the scene, actually, where she's reading the hungry caterpillar to this.

This sort of six month old.

And she's absolutely outraged by the fact that this butterfly is supposed to be some aspirational sort of ending.

And she's like, what's aspirational about a butterfly?

You know, maybe much better to have a unicorn.

At least it has a weapon on its head.

She's brilliant.

She is absolutely brilliant.

We talked about this briefly before we came on again.

If how to age disgracefully were made into a movie or a tv series, I could see perfectly who I thought Daphne would be.

And we thought the same, didn't we?

Who do we think?

Well, you know, I never have an actor or actress in mind as I'm writing.

But then quite often, what happens is I get to the end.

And I have this light bulb moment where I think, yes, that is who this person is.

And in this case, absolutely Helen Mirren.

You know, Daphne is.

It would be, you know, brilliantly played by Helen Mirren.

I think, because Helen is the right age.

She's.

She's sort of.

She's very.

She's tiny, she's sort of petite, but she's also very feisty and very much like Daphne.

She's sort of, you know, she's.

Yeah, she's got lots of balls.

That's.

I mean, that's who came through really strongly for me when I was thinking about it would have to be Helen Mirren.

Like, she would be amazing.

So we need to make that happen somehow, please.

But you say, like, about wanting to be Daphne, I think I want to be a bit more Daphne, too.

I just think her clothes, her apartment, the way she just solves things and just makes things happen.

She is incredible.

So be more Daphne.

I think, if I could, we need to.

So I think you are brilliant at writing strong women, and I love the way you look at their sort of vulnerabilities and strengths and the way you develop their characters.

As you say, when we first meet Daphne, it's not clear whether we're going to like her or what's going on underneath the surface in how to age.

Disgracefully, one of your other characters popped up very briefly, who I loved, made a little cameo.

Out of all of your characters so far, which one do you think you're most like?

And I think we've probably possibly answered this already.

Who would you like to be most like from all of your books?

Oh, gosh, that's a really interesting question.

In a way, the authenticity project was my most autobiographical novel, and I think often your debut novel is the one that's most autobiographical.

You know, people always say, write what you know, and, you know, I guess that's what I did.

So, you know, in the authenticity project, there were a number of the different characters shared things with me.

So, you know, Monica was very much like I used to be when I was, you know, that age in my sort of early thirties.

And, you know, art was my creative side and Hazard was my addict side.

And Alice was very much like I was when I first had babies, you know, and I was struggling with all those sleepless nights and tiny babies.

And that's very much what Alice was going through.

So I think the character that's most liked me is actually the amalgamation of the authenticity project characters.

You know, who, as I said, each shared bits of me and the character that I most want to be.

I mean, it's difficult to choose between Hyona and Daphne, actually.

I think they're both hugely aspirational for me.

I think probably Iona, because, you know, much as I love Daphne, she is, you know, she is very spiky.

And Iona is just a bit more warm and cuddly.

Can you imagine those two together?

I think they'd be.

I think they'd hate each other to start with, but they'd probably end up great friends.

Yeah, but can you imagine what they could do together?

Those two women together?

Be like, dynamite.

Wouldn't it just.

I can't remember if you just said that there, but Iona is from your second novel, the people on platform five, and she is one of my favorites, too.

And that's probably who I mean, I love Daphne, but as you say, she is quite spiky.

And, you know, she has a checkered past, which, you know, makes life quite difficult for her.

So I think I would probably like to have elements of Daphne, but I think probably more Iona as well.

Yeah, yeah.

One of the themes that comes up in your book is how, as we age, we can become invisible in society.

You explore this with Daphne and also one of your other characters who becomes a little light fingered in his older age.

And because of his age, he is sort of overlooked and gets away with it.

In your author's note, you talk about a real event that inspired this idea.

And I know it's really hard to talk about and still keep it spoiler free, but I would love if you could tell us a little bit about what drew you to write about this.

Yes, sure.

I mean, I'm interested in the issues of aging generally and in the people on platform five.

You know, we did.

I explored a lot.

You know how it feels when you get to 50 and you suddenly feel like a dinosaur in the workplace and everyone treats you like you're a has been when actually you're at the height of your powers.

And it seems terribly unfair the way that people are written off after a certain age, particularly women.

So I'm really interested in this whole sort of invisibility of aging thing.

And then I was driving along one day, and I was listening to the radio, and there was a news story.

And I won't say exactly what it was about because it might give too much away, but it was about a group of people who had committed this really big crime, really famous crime, and, you know, they were all older men.

They were all sort of 70 plus.

And I thought God, that's fascinating, you know, and it just made me realize that the advantage of being older and being invisible is that you can get away with all sorts of stuff because people aren't looking for somebody over over 70, you know, they're looking for, you know, they're looking for the culprit to be in their thirties or forties, you know, at the most.

And actually, at the time I wrote down this line, which is when age makes you invisible, secrets are easier to hide.

And that became the tagline on the book, actually.

And, yeah, that was another, you know, another way the story came together for me is this idea of how can you use invisibility to your advantageous?

And Daphne is constantly doing that.

You know, she's constantly taking the fact that she's being overlooked as a way of getting what she wants.

That's really interesting, isn't it?

Because it is using it to your advantage.

As you were just saying that then I was thinking, I recently had a conversation with a friend.

So she's the same age as me.

Her children have just gone off to secondary school and she's thinking about returning to work.

But she's just turned 50 and was like, will I get a job now?

Will I be able to return to the workplace?

And I was like, that's crazy.

I mean, I know it's reality that it is harder, but you think at 50, as you say, we have so much to offer and things that it does feel really harsh.

It is madness.

And I used to work in advertising.

I spent 20 years in advertising and my company had a compulsory retirement age of 55.

So there was nobody in the office over 55.

And, you know, I left when I was 40 and I was one of the oldest women in the office by then, which was, you know, crazy.

So, yeah, so it is.

It is a subject that I find.

I often write about things that make me really angry.

And it does make me really angry.

Well, it does, yeah.

Because you think it's just.

Yeah, if you've chosen to have a family or whatever, then it's been sort of written off.

Beyond that is really hard, particularly when there's so many.

I mean, I look at, like, you know, mums in school and how many creative and intelligent women have got so much to offer who are just sort of been sidelined.

It is.

It's very, very hard to look at.

So before we move on to talk about your book choices, Clare, I would love to talk a little bit about your writing journey because I think it's so interesting and so inspiring as well, so you started off as a blogger before becoming a best selling author.

Hello.

That's pretty impressive.

I'd love to hear about that journey, like how it happened and what advice would you give to other bloggers who might be wanting to write a novel?

Yeah, well, I always wanted to be a writer.

It wasn't a new thing.

I think most authors for as long as they can remember, have wanted to do what they do.

You know, from the moment I first discovered stories and realized that, you know, people spent their lives creating, imagining stories and sharing them with other people, you know, that seemed to me to be the most magical sort of job.

So, you know, it's something I'd always wanted to do, but, you know, like many people, sort of life got in the way.

I said I was working in advertising, I was burning the candle at both ends.

I was sort of traveling all over the place.

I wrote nothing for decades, apart from PowerPoint presentations and emails and, you know, that sort of thing.

And then, you know, I got to the point where I was in my mid forties, and I realized that my wine habit had got completely out of control.

And this sounds like a sort of diversion, and it sort of is, but it's also rather relevant.

So I was drinking ten bottles of wine a week, which is way more than the government guidelines, and it was really badly impacting my life.

I was a terrible insomniac, I was overweight, I was anxious a lot of the time.

My whole life sort of felt like it got stuck in a rut.

I had three small children at this point as well, and it was sort of, I didn't want to be a really bad role model for them, which I felt I was being.

So I sort of knew I had to quit drinking, but I was too ashamed and embarrassed to talk to anybody about it.

I didn't want to talk to my GP or my husband or my friends or anybody, but I had to do something to sort of get it off my chest, if you like, and some sort of, you know, some sort of therapy.

And I thought, actually, I'll do what I used to do when I was a teenager and I'll start writing a diary, and I can then put it all into this diary.

Actually, funnily enough, blogs are probably a bit old fashioned now, but back then they were like the in thing.

So I thought, I'll write a blog, but I'll make it completely anonymous.

Nobody else will ever read it, and nobody will know it's me.

So that's what I did.

I started a blog called Mummy was a secret drinker.

I called myself sober mummy, and I wrote in this blog every day, and I just sort of poured it all out into this blog.

And bizarrely, because I didn't publicize it at all, but it went viral, and I ended up with millions of hits in the first year.

And people were sort of, people all around the world found this blog and were commenting and, you know, talking to me about their experiences.

And people started saying, you know, you should turn this into a book.

And I started getting messages from publishers and agents.

And that was my first published book.

And then basically by this stage, writing was my new addiction.

So, you know, the hole that was left when I stopped drinking, I'd filled with writing, and it was something that I just felt compelled to do, but I didn't want to carry on writing about my own life because I thought, well, I've been there, done that, and people bored of me.

And so I thought, I'll try writing fiction.

So, yeah, so that's when I started writing the authenticity project, which I did.

I wrote the whole of the first draft on the three month novel writing course with Curtis Brown.

Creative.

Wow.

And that's really brave to put yourself out there like that on the Internet.

I mean, it was anonymous, but still, it's a really brave thing to do.

And I don't think people were talking.

I mean, I stopped drinking on my 40th birthday, so I haven't had a drink for seven years.

Yeah.

I mean, I felt like I was.

It was just sort of getting in the way a little bit.

Even if I had, like, a couple of glasses of wine in the evening, the next day I would have a really bad headache.

And I was like, this is silly.

It's taking up time.

But even when I think there was a sort of shame about giving up, because when you go to a party, people like, do you want to drink?

You're like, oh, no, it's.

It's awkward.

So I think it's a, you know, huge that you did that and probably helped so many people, you know, who have a problem if you like, but not, you know, not, you know, it's not taking over their life.

Totally.

But I think it's really, really empowering that you've done that.

Thank you.

I mean, it's probably.

I think it's the thing I'm most proud of, more so than my novels, because, you know, even now, and it's now, what, six years since it was published, but even now, I get messages every single day from people who have read that book and.

And say it helped.

So, you know, so it's.

It's.

Yeah, I'm really glad I did it.

It was really frightening at the time, doing it didn't feel brave writing the blog, because it was, as I said, it was so anonymous.

It just felt like something I had to do.

It was more like therapy than anything else, but publishing it under my own name and then going on woman's hour and Lorraine and Steve Wright and all those talking about the most shameful bits of my life, that was really scary.

But, you know, what I discovered is that when you make yourself really vulnerable and you're really honest about the stuff you're going through, people are actually really kind.

And I've had very, very little trolling over the years since that was published, and hardly any, which is.

And I think it's because, you know, I sort of think, well, what can people say to me that I haven't already admitted to the world?

You know, they can't say, oh, you were a terrible lush, because I've sort of done that.

Yep.

They can't say, you were a terrible mother because I've sort of, you know, admitted to that one, too.

And, you know, I sort of feel like there's nothing left that people can beat me round the head with.

Yeah.

But I think a lot of people will just find it very, very relatable.

I think it's more.

I mean, I have a lot of friends who don't drink now, whereas before it, you know, it was.

I was definitely in the minority, but I think it's definitely changed, hasn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, things are very different now, particularly amongst younger people.

Yeah.

They say that 25% of the under 25s don't drink at all, which I find extraordinary because, you know, when I was at university, I didn't know anyone who didn't drink.

Not one person.

No.

And it was always to excess as well.

I mean, it wasn't just like one.

Or two glasses doing that, obviously, but just nothing like as many as they used to be.

No, no, I think, yeah.

I just hope my kids are nothing like I was.

That's like, please yeah, some.

Some teenagers will tell you that, you know, drinking alcohol is a bit like the Facebook of the.

Of the sort of, you know, the drug world as far as.

As far as sort of younger people are concerned.

It's just sort of.

It's something that older people do and not them.

Doesn't mean they're not doing something.

Yeah, let's not even think about that.

I'm too afraid to even go down there.

We're a long way off in our house.

I hope so.

How to age disgracefully is Clare's latest novel.

It's out now.

It is a brilliant read that I would highly recommend, so please do pick it up because you are in for such a treat.

Before we move on to talk about the books that have shaped Clare's lives, I just want to remind listeners that all of the books that we're talking about will be linked in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them really easily.

Claire, how did you find choosing your five books?

Oh, God, it's really hard.

It's like choosing your favourite child.

And, you know, the funny thing is, I was thinking that, you know, I've been asked before what my favorite books are and I think every time I come up with a different answer, and I think it's because a lot of it depends on what sort of mood you're in at the time and what's.

What you're going through and what sort of, you know, what.

You read so many thousands of books that, you know, the choice is influenced by.

By all sorts of other things going on in your life, I think.

Definitely, definitely.

We've picked some brilliant reads.

I've read two and I've got one sat on my TBR that's been there for a little while, actually.

So shall we get started?

Should we find out about your first book, Claire?

Hmm?

The first one is you must have read.

Actually, it's Jane Austen's.

You haven't read.

You haven't read Emma by Jane Austen.

I am useless.

Are you?

Classics, I really, really struggle with them and it's like, you know, I was thinking before we came on, I was like, I'm gonna have to.

Because every time somebody picks the Jane Austen, I'm like, I'm rubbish with the classics.

I'm gonna have to just dive in and pick one up.

Yeah.

I mean, I.

Yeah, it's.

It's.

It's brilliant.

I mean, I think all of Jane Austen, great, but Emma particularly.

And I think the reason I'm.

I was particularly, particularly entranced with Emma is that, you know, I read voraciously as a child.

I read everything.

I read the classics.

I read all the sort of Enid Blytons and the CS Lewis's and the Roald Dahls, everything.

And I generally found that heroes and heroines were always aspirational.

They were always perfect in most ways.

They might have a sort of gap tooth or so they might be a bit cheeky or whatever, but generally they were sort of.

They were really perfect and they were just in terrible situations.

So they might have been kidnapped or have terrible parents or whatever, but they were generally plucky and courageous and beautiful and extrovert and lovable and all of those things.

And then I read Jane Austen's Emma.

And Emma is a really flawed heroine.

She's not very nice.

You know, she is snobbish and she's egocentric and she's a bit of a narcissist.

But you can't help falling in love with her, and you can't help wanting her to be okay and for everything to come good in the end.

And it just got me thinking that actually, you don't have to be perfect to be lovable and that, you know, the more flawed characters are often the most interesting.

They're the ones that stick with you.

They're the ones that sort of make you think.

They're the, you know, the ones that change your mind about stuff.

And, you know, and that really started my love affair with flawed characters.

And when I started writing my own characters, I always start, instead of thinking, what is this character good at?

You know, what are their strengths?

What are their really fine qualities?

I always start by thinking, what is this character's fatal flaw?

What's their biggest weakness?

What do they struggle with?

What do they most want to change about their lives?

And I think that's why people say my characters feel really real and three dimensional, because I start from their weaknesses and not their strengths.

And that comes from having read Emma.

That's so interesting.

But it is.

I mean, I love a flawed character.

That's such an interesting way because I think we are sort of, you know, well, we certainly try to look for the best in people, don't we?

Whenever.

To flip it around, it's really interesting.

I'm gonna have to pick up one of these Jane Austen's I have to get into.

Emma hasn't been picked before on this series.

Start with word and prejudice, and then read Emma as a contrast, and you'll.

See what I mean.

Okay.

Start with pride and prejudice.

I'm gonna make it my mission by the end of the year to have read one.

It's probably gonna take.

If I start now.

What is it?

It's like September.

There's a chance I might get through one.

I don't know.

They're really short.

But I think it's just, for me, I think it's sort of held up in that sort of feeling of having to read something at school, is why I sort of struggle with them a little bit.

And this sort of language, as well, I do struggle with.

Did you do English at university?

I didn't go to university, no.

See, people always assume that I did English, and I didn't.

And the reason I didn't study English at university was I just really didn't want reading to turn into something that I had to do rather than wanted to do.

And so I totally get it.

You know, you don't sort of books that make you feel obliged.

Not a good thing.

Yeah, I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna try and do it.

You'll make you proud by December.

I've read a pride and prejudice.

Prejudice?

Can't even say it, let alone read it.

Okay, let's move on to your second choice, Clare.

A book I love.

Yeah.

This is one of my all time favourites.

Bridget Jones's diary by Helen Fielding.

And, you know, I just.

I just love this book.

I mean, partly because it's so hilariously funny, and.

And I just love a book that makes you laugh, but also because I read it, and I thought, goddess Bridget is me.

You know, she was like the voice of my generation.

It was the first time that somebody had.

I felt somebody had written a character that completely described how women of that age were feeling.

And, you know, I absolutely loved her.

And I have to tell you a story about my relationship with Bridget Jones, because shortly after the book came out and everyone was talking about it, everyone was reading it.

And I got this phone call.

I was working in advertising.

I got this phone call from a producer at the BBC, and she said, hi, Claire.

Look, we are making a documentary about real life Bridget Joneses living in London.

And I've been given your name, and we'd like you to be in it.

And, you know, and I was horrified at the idea of being the subject of a documentary.

And I said, look, you know, I'm really kind of you, but don't really want to do it.

And they said, well, do you know anyone else who might be interested?

So I gave them the name of a friend of mine, and she became one of the main characters in this documentary.

And then she called me up and said, claire, look, you know, you've landed me in this thing.

They're going to.

This film crew are going to follow me around for a whole week.

And, you know, this is entirely your fault.

So they are doing a.

A blind date dinner party, which they're going to film.

And I want you to be in it because otherwise I would never forgive you.

So.

Okay, okay, I'll do it.

I'll do it.

And I thought, it's just going to be a really small part of this program.

No one's going to see it anyway.

No one will know I've done it.

It'll fly under the radar, no problem.

So anyway, so I do this documentary and they.

I had several drinks before the dinner because we were all rather nervous and sort of, we plied with all these free drinks.

And I had this set piece in my head that I was going to say because I didn't want to look like a sad case.

So anyway, at this point, I'm holding this glass of wine.

This is all on film.

And I'm saying, look, I've got a great job, I've got a great flat, I've got a great car.

Why would I need a man?

And I thought, okay, that's it.

You know, I've done my bit.

Anyway, what I didn't realize is they were going to run this trailer for weeks before this program came on air.

And there was only one person on the trailer and it was me.

And it was me with looking terribly drunk, holding this glass of wine, going, look, I've got this great flat, I've got this great car, I've got this great job.

And this voiceover comes in and it goes, so why can't these women find the one thing you really want a man?

And I was like, oh, no.

Oh, no.

I mean, that's awful, but brilliant.

So, yeah, so that's my little Bridget Jones story.

Oh, they stitched you up.

They really stitched me up.

And, yeah, so I did think it was funny when the sober diaries, when it was published, was described as Bridget Jones tries out, because I do slightly blame her for my Chardonnay habit.

And you were the face of her documentary.

So that is brilliant.

That's pretty.

It's such a brilliant book.

And you say.

Everyone talking about it.

I was thinking about this again because it's been picked a couple of times.

Actually, Alice Wynn picked it in season one.

But I think it's one of those books that did get people reading again, because you know, even if you weren't, everyone was talking about it so much that people were picking it up.

So it was brilliant for, like, getting people into books.

And it was a fabulous read.

Hasn't held up particularly well, I don't think.

No, if you read back at it, I mean, it's.

I think it's good, though, because it was a particular point in time and I think it shows you how much we've changed and which is a good thing, you know, so I think it is social history.

Yeah, definitely.

They're filming another one at the moment, aren't they?

Yeah, I would definitely watch that.

Okay, we're going to move on to book number three.

Claire?

Well, book three is sort of follows on quite, quite interestingly from book two because, you know, as I was saying, you know, I do slightly blame Bridget Jones for the fact that I ended up drinking buckets and buckets of wine and I thought it was perfectly normal to drink by yourself at home and all those sorts of things.

And I came across a book by Marian Keyes called Rachel's Holiday, which, you know.

Have you read Rachel's holiday?

I haven't, no.

Not the one for your list.

It's on my shelf.

So Rachel's holiday is a.

Is a real classic.

It was.

I think it was Marian's first.

No, it may not have been her first novel, but it was.

It was certainly one of her early novels.

And I remember reading this book, which is about a character called Rachel who was living in New York, and she was worked hard, played hard, big party animal, and she was drinking huge amounts and doing quite a lot of coke.

And, and she, her family intervene and basically persuade her to go to rehab.

And I remember reading this thinking, that's ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with Rachel.

She's just, you know, having a good time and sort of, you know, letting her hair down, leave the poor girl alone.

And Rachel thought it was ridiculous, too, and thought she didn't really have a problem.

And then as I was reading through the novel, it became quite clear that Rachel really did have a problem and that rehab really was a good idea.

And somewhere in my mind, I started thinking, actually, if I'm agreeing that Rachel has a problem, and I understand that Rachel is just like me, doesn't that mean that I have a problem, too?

And I didn't do anything about that thought for quite a long time.

But it was the first time I really started thinking about my relationship with alcohol.

And, you know, it struck me that sometimes the best ways of getting people to rethink things.

And, you know, to consider really important stuff isn't through nonfiction.

It isn't through bashing them over the head and saying, you shouldn't drink so much, you know?

And so it's actually by involving them in a story.

And sometimes the most powerful messages, I think, can come through fiction rather than non fiction.

And, yeah, Rachel's holiday, I'm sure, has changed thousands and thousands of lives without being at all preachy or, you know, it's just a story.

It's just somebody's story.

But out there, there will be people that think, actually, that's my story, too.

And fiction, I think, can be so powerful like that.

It really can.

Even if it's not something you're going through, sometimes you'll see something, one of your friends, maybe, and it helps to understand.

So I think they do say reading makes you have more empathy, doesn't it?

They absolutely do.

And, you know, just things like, you know, reading about people who might have eating disorders or who are autistic or bipolar or, you know, any.

You know, it really does help you to understand.

And for people who are struggling through those sorts of things themselves, it can be really.

It can stop them feeling so alone, you know?

And the chances are people are more likely to pick up a novel rather than a non fiction to learn about something.

So, I mean, I see that with my kids, particularly my daughter, she's a big reader, but some of the books she's picking up, a lot of the yas do cover some big topics.

And I think it's brilliant because it's opening conversations up from a young age, which is amazing.

In my era, it was Judy Bloom, you know, writing books like, are you there, God?

It's me, Margaret.

That's how you find out about periods.

That was.

Yeah, when I did my sort of desert island books, that was one of my choices, because I remember that I was just thinking, like, oh.

Because I had a friend who told me about periods, and she was horribly misinformed about what was going to happen.

I was terrified.

And then I read this book, I was like, okay, I think I can deal with this.

Yeah.

Really powerful.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

Okay.

And then moving on to one of my favorite novels.

Claire, I love this so much.

I'm sorry for choosing this one because I know it's been chosen before, but I just, you know, it is.

It is just one of my all time favorites.

And it's David Nicholls one day, and, you know.

Have you met David Nicholls?

Yes.

Because he is as nice in real life as from reading his books, he's.

He's really lovely, and, you know, he is the master, I think, of writing relationships, and, you know, the relationship between Dexter and em just feels so.

It feels like you're right there with them, you know, and they feel so real and so believable.

And it's funny, David Nichols says that with that, people are constantly coming up to him saying, oh, I love one day because I am m.

And, you know, and nobody ever says, you know, he said, nobody ever says, I am Dexter, but actually, I am Dexter because I was the one working in media who was sort of going slightly off the rails and.

And actually, as a result, being really rather selfish and horrible.

And, yeah, luckily, I found my m in my husband.

But, yeah, it is an amazing book.

And, you know what?

They say that with people, you don't remember what people say.

You remember how they make you feel.

Have you heard that?

Yeah.

And I find that about novels, too, because, you know, I read thousands of novels, and I forget most of them, you know, because I just don't have enough room in my head to file all those, those novels away.

And the ones I remember are the ones that make me feel really strongly about something.

So they'll either make me really laugh like Bridget Jones and diary, or they'll make me cry, you know, or they'll make me, you know, want to turn the pages, because my heart is racing so hard.

You know, they have a physical reaction, and one day is the only book ever that I have physically thrown across the room when I got to.

I got to that point at the end, which, you know, just in case there's anyone in the world, you know, but there's that point at the end that I was so horrified by that I just threw it across the room.

So I just couldn't bear to hold it any longer.

And, you know, that, for me, is why that book is so unforgettable, because it made me react in such a visceral way.

So, yeah.

So, again, when I started writing my own books, you know, I always have in mind, you know, it's not what you say.

It's how you make people feel, and, you know, you want to change the way that people, you know, give them.

Make them have a really, you know, a really big emotional reaction, because that what's.

That's what makes books memorable, I think.

Yeah, I agree.

I think.

And totally.

I mean, I've read one day several times now, and it gets me every single time.

Yeah, every single time.

Dex or m probably more m sorry.

It's a bit boring.

Have you told David Nichols that you are Dexdein?

Yeah.

That is brilliant.

That is brilliant.

It's such a great book.

And it's one, actually.

Did you watch the tv series?

I loved it, and much more so than the film.

You know, it was much more close to the, you know, the book itself.

And I just love that.

So Nichols did the soundtrack for that.

He's a big music buff, and he picked all the tracks for the series.

It's brilliant.

I almost didn't watch it because I didn't love the movie.

And I loved the book so much, I was like, oh, I don't know, is the series going to work?

But there's so many times I thought, oh, my God, remember this song?

And it's so close to the book.

It's brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

Okay, so we're gonna move on to your final choice.

This is one that's been on my TBR for a while.

And, yeah, I was just really interested to hear about this one because every time I pick it up, I'm sort of like, oh, I don't know.

Don't really know about it.

So see if you can convince me.

This is a really old one, actually.

And.

But it was really influential in my life in that, you know, so many years ago.

So this was in.

Hang on, let me try and work it out.

And we came out of the cinema and we said it was the summer holidays and we were both students, and we said, right, we've got to do a Thelma Louise.

We booked a flight to San Francisco and we thought, we're going to rent a car and drive across the desert to the Grand Canyon and Las Vegas.

And, you know, which we did wearing t shirts saying, thelma Nui is love it.

And our first stop was San Francisco.

And we were staying with these gay guys in San Francisco who introduced us to the whole sort of gay scene and the clubs and everything.

And it was such an amazing city back then because despite the fact that it was the AIDS crisis and, you know, so things were really tough.

It was a city where people, you know, just.

They felt so grateful to be there and they sort of said.

Everybody said to us, you know, until I came to San Francisco, my life was really hard.

I lived in a small town in somewhere mid America.

I was prejudiced against I thought that, you know, everybody, I couldn't be myself.

I was.

It was, you know, it was terrible.

I felt hounded out.

And I came to San Francisco and my life changed.

And they were.

There was such a sort of uplifting feeling about this place.

And they said to me, you must read tales of the city by Armistead Mopin.

And I did.

I read the whole series.

But the first one is called tales of the city.

And it's about a woman called Mary Ann Singleton, who's very naive and young, and she ends up, she goes to San Francisco on holiday and ends up staying there.

And she lives in an apartment run apartment block, and the landlady is called Misses Madrigal, and she grows marijuana and is very eccentric.

And she's sort of iona and Daphne esque.

Actually, in many ways, misses Madrigal and the books center around this group of people in these apartments who are completely different but connected by the fact they live in the same place.

And the whole feeling of those books, it's all about community.

It's all about found family.

Armistead Maupin talks about the importance of that point in your life where you choose your own family.

You move beyond your biological family, and you find your.

He calls it the logical family.

Who are the people you're meant to be with?

And I thought if I was to write a book, that's the sort of book that I want to write.

And really, it was the inspiration for the authenticity project, which is very different in many ways.

The thing that brings the characters together is a notebook rather than a physical place rather than an apartment block.

But in the same way, a group of strangers in a city come together, find their own community, make each other's lives better.

And, you know, as a reader, I hope you come away feeling, you know, uplifted and.

And better about life.

So.

Yeah, so that's why tales of the city was on my list, because it really.

Yeah, it was the inspiration for my debut novel.

There's so much I love about what you've just said.

First of all, taking the Thelma and Louise trip is epic.

Love that.

That's absolutely brilliant.

This, because I think these have just been reissued, haven't they?

They've been republished.

That's why I've got.

Got a copy.

I probably wouldn't have picked it up, actually, I think.

But now hearing you talk about it, I'm really interested to read it.

It sounds exactly like the sort of book that I love, community, people coming together.

So I'm gonna have to bump that one up.

Now, also, the whole series is, again, it's about an interesting point in time, you know, in that it was based in San Francisco in the, in the late seventies and the eighties during the AIDS crisis.

And, you know, in a particular, you know, community who back then were, you know, really prejudiced against, you know, life is very different now if you're gay than it was back in the seventies and eighties.

And I think, again, it's worth reminding ourselves of how far we've come.

Yeah, I think so.

I think looking back on things as well, it's really important to remind ourselves.

I'm going to bump that up the TBR, actually, I pulled it off the shelf last night to have a look at it to see why I hadn't picked it up.

I noticed it had teeny tiny print.

So I'm doing eye test.

I'm going to get stronger glasses and then dive in.

Okay.

Claire, I'm afraid I have got the difficult question for you.

If you could only read one of those books again, which one would you choose?

Don't hate me.

Gosh, it's really difficult.

But it would probably be Bridget Jones, actually, because.

Yeah, I mean, I think Bridget makes people feel better about themselves because again, she's such a brilliantly flawed character that she's immensely lovable.

And even though she's slightly out of date now, I just.

Yeah, I'll always be grateful to Bridget.

Yeah.

No, I think you could enjoy getting back into those pages.

Definitely.

So.

Oh, Claire, it has been so lovely to chat to you.

I've really enjoyed it.

I've really loved hearing all your stories.

Thank you so much.

Oh, it's a pleasure.

I've really enjoyed chatting to you.

Thank you for asking me.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Likewise.

Thank you so much.

Clare's fabulous new novel, how to age disgracefully, is out now and it is such a fun read.

It will absolutely warm your heart.

So please do pick it up.

As always, all of the books that we have talked about today are in the show notes with links to buy.

I can't quite believe it, but this is the end of the season and I really hope that you've enjoyed it as much as I have.

And I would like to say a huge thank you to my season two guests who have been Catherine Newmande, Nikki Mae, Marianne Cronin, Josie Ferguson, Susan Fletcher, and of course, Claire Pooley.

Plans for season three are underway and I cannot wait to get back into it.

For more news of my podcast, please do subscribe and you can find more information about the podcast over on my instagram and on my website.

Thanks for listening and see you soon.