Are you ready to explore practical, neurodivergent food additions, dietary strategies and simple recipes that can empower you to take control of your health?

This week's guest is Lucinda Miller. As clinical lead of the NatureDoc team, with over 25 years of experience as a naturopath and qualifications in Functional Medicine, Lucinda's book Brain Brilliance was published in August 2024. She is the mum of three and lives in Wiltshire, UK.

She is an ADHDer herself and in this podcast, she shares how she has helped herself, her family and thousands of others through the nutritional know how to become the best version of themselves with better mental stamina, clarity, and focus. She also discusses the significance of understanding how hormonal changes impact mental health, particularly for women navigating perimenopause. 

During this episode, Kate and Lucinda talk about:

• Making holistic changes to your health via the minerals in your meals
• Improving your sleep through your food
• Helping your neurodivergent kids feel more regulated
• The specifics when it comes to nutrient levels like Iron and Zinc
• How your brain chemicals affect your mental clarity
• Eating to support your brain health and function

Timestamps

• 04:00 - Understanding ADHD in Women and Hormonal Changes
• 05:24 - The Importance of Nutrition for ADHD Management
• 14:36 - Discussion on Key Nutrients: Iron, Zinc, and GABA
• 22:51 - The Role of Saffron in Managing ADHD Symptoms
• 31:24 - Practical Tips for Improving Diet and Wellbeing

You can find out more about Lucinda via her website, https://naturedoc.com/ or on Instagram. Her Brain Brilliance book is available here: https://geni.us/brainbrilliance

Try Kate's new Apple podcast subscription, The Toolkit, here

Save 15% on supplements from The Herbtender, using code kate15

Have a look at some of Kate's workshops and free resources here.

Kate Moryoussef is a women’s ADHD Lifestyle and wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity, and clarity. 

Follow the podcast on Instagram here.

Follow Kate on Instagram here.

Find Kate's resources on ADDitude magazine here.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Herb Tender Doze & Dream

Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef, and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, eft practitioner, mum to four kids, and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me, and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with ADHD.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm, and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

I'm today absolutely delighted.

Excited.

I cannot wait to speak to this guest.

Her name is Lucinda Miller, and she is a naturopath.

She is a functional medicine practitioner, and she's the clinical lead of the Nature doc team.

And she is also an author of best selling books and more specifically, the most fantastic book that has just been released called brain brilliance, and that is nourishing recipes and a nutritional toolkit for dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADHD, autism, and all neurodivergent kids.

I have read this book from beginning to end.

I have written numerous notes.

I've put lots of.

You can see here, I've put lots of paper into, you know, recipes for my kids, for me.

And I have been really looking forward to having this conversation so we can share your expertise and your knowledge with my wider community because I know how much it's needed.

So, Lucinda, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, Kate.

It's great to be here.

Thank you so much for inviting me on.

Yeah.

And I guess maybe the first place to start is that you were diagnosed yourself at 31 with ADHD.

And you told me, and I hope this is okay to say, that you're now in your fifties.

So that was a long time ago.

How, you know, we talk about this late diagnosis resurgence, and I'm wondering how then you were diagnosed, like, what came about?

And how did a psychiatrist pick up on your ADHD?

Yes.

So, in fact, it was my first date with my husband, who I had known for a long time.

So it wasn't a random conversation to have on your first date, but he'd just been diagnosed with ADHD.

And I found that absolutely fascinating.

And I think it probably rang a chord for me.

But, you know, then we went on and had a baby, and after having the baby, which I know most women's brains go a bit tamush, but it really was continuing.

And I found it incredibly hard to manage my life.

I remember sorting out my bills, and I put the envelopes, I filed them away, and I put the bills, and I put them in the bin.

You know what I mean?

So it was like everything was chaos.

I was letting my friends down, I was letting my family down, I was letting my child down.

And he said, I really think you need to have this explored as well.

So I went along to the same psychiatrist that he'd seen, spent the whole day with them.

We did so many cognitive tests, I think way more than you probably do these days.

And I learned so much about my brain, and the diagnosis was ADHD, but because I was very keen to have another baby, and this was a long time ago, before there was a huge amount of information on the Internet about the medications, and knowing that they worked for part of your day, but not twenty four seven, I kind of was reluctant to try them.

And so I therefore needed to pursue other avenues, and that included diet.

I trained as a naturopath anyway, so it was something I was obviously very drawn to.

And things started to come together so quickly in terms of diet changes and a couple of supplements, et cetera, that actually, I've really thrived on that.

But what's interesting, as you said, is a lot of women really struggle in their midlife.

And I would say that sort of my mid forties, suddenly, I was finding it really hard.

And it was things like working memory, short term memory, word retrieval, but just overall scatterness was taking over and feeling very overwhelmed and anxious about trying to manage life.

And actually, that coincided with the diagnosis of Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

So that was when my thyroid was out.

And equally, the beginnings of perimenopause.

And obviously, lots of women can associate with this, and they found that when a woman is going through these hormonal changes, whether it's a teenage girl starting their first period, whether it's pregnancy, whether it's postnatal, whether it's peri or menopause, this is where your hormones are all over the shop, and therefore, your brain can be all over the shop, too.

And so this is why I'm really passionate about helping women as well as children with their ADHD.

We hear this a lot.

Like a lot of women are talking about Hashimoto's autoimmune diseases, fatigue, pain.

And it's all in this sort of melting pot of discovering neurodivergence, understanding how their hormones have been wreaking havoc on their lives, most of their adult, you know, lives and thinking, right, what can we do now?

Because our brains is what the world kind of sees when it comes to word retrieval, executive functioning, memory.

Like, we're kind of judged on all of this.

If we're perceived as scatty or chaotic or disorganized, that has a huge impact on our confidence.

I know a lot of women who have been in really high flying careers and all of a sudden have been derailed by their brains when it comes to perimenopause, because the ADHD symptoms of traits have come to the forefront and they're menopausal symptoms and they're desperate for help when it comes to being able to still lean into their brilliant brains.

Can we use all the recipes that are in the book and apply them to ourselves as well?

Absolutely.

So just, I thought it'd be a good idea to sort of delve into the science a little bit without overwhelming anyone too much.

Absolutely.

It's essentially the neurotransmitter, or brain chemical that we need for.

Mainly need for ADHD is something called dopamine.

And most people that have been diagnosed with ADHD understand this concept of making dopamine.

And we've all learned about dopamine snacks from different inputs in our lives and so forth.

So when our estrogen is changing our body, when it's going up and down and fluctuating, oestrogen is really important for that re uptake of dopamine, which is what the medication does.

Okay?

And so what you need to do is you need to work on optimizing your ability to make dopamine if that estrogen is going a bit sort of awry.

And the key building block for dopamine is something called tyrosine.

And tyrosine is an amino acid which comes from eating meat, dairy, fish, etcetera.

So this is protein.

And why protein is such an important thing, you'll hear over and over again.

Any conversation about ADHD and diet will always include how important it is to consume lots of protein.

And the most important change that I personally made was switching to a very high protein breakfast.

So this morning I had three eggs and some feta cheese.

Okay?

Whereas previously this is, you know, prior to diagnosis, et cetera, I was probably having.

I was trying to be gluten free and dairy free for my various autoimmune things.

So I'd probably have the equivalent of cornflakes and some oat milk.

And I literally was a wreck.

45 minutes later, I'd feel wobbly, tired, my brain went to mush, and it's because my brain wasn't being fed with those amino acids.

So tyrosine is super duper important to have some people do supplement with it on its own.

But actually, I think just that high protein diet is usually enough.

Okay.

And then that tyrosine needs to be converted into dopamine.

And the key nutrient that's needed for that is iron.

And iron is the most abundant mineral in your central nervous system.

Okay?

So it's really important neurologically, it's important for energy.

It pumps oxygen around to the brain.

It's so key.

And so many women, literally on a daily basis, through my Instagram or our clients, people are getting the wrong messaging from their doctors.

So they're having a blood test saying, I'm feeling lousy.

And there's something, there's a measure called ferritin, which is your iron stores.

And for a woman, it should be between twelve and 400.

So anything sort of twelve and below is anaemic and anything.

And basically, if you're still menstruating, it should be over 30.

But ideally, for the ADHD brain, experts have found that between 71 hundred is ideal.

So it's not even close to the top range, which is 400.

So, you know, it's pretty hard to get.

So they're almost on the edge.

There just isn't enough iron to convert that tyrosine into dopamine.

Can I ask about this, because it's fascinating what you're saying.

I have always measured very low in my ferritin.

And during pregnancy, I always had to be on iron tablets.

And I've now got three daughters, a son as well, and my eldest daughter, who is 16, nearly 17, I know, is low in iron.

We've had her checks and everything, and she's also got ADHD and lots of gut issues and things like that.

And I buy the sachets, and it's sort of iron mixed with apple juice.

I don't know if you're familiar, Bartone.

Yes.

And I keep them and they take them very begrudgingly me, and they go, I've got a 13 year old as well, so when they're on their period or any other time afterwards, I'm like, just take it.

And for me, it tastes like apple juice, but they go, it tastes like blood.

It tastes like blood and they don't like it, but I know how important it is.

Would you say that that is a good way of getting iron, like, as opposed to the tablets, like, how do we.

Would you recommend that type of iron supplement?

So I'm just going to give you an understanding of the levels that someone needs.

Okay, so a menstruating teenage girl needs 14.

That's 14 milligrams of iron a day.

Now, a chunky piece of steak, 100 grams of steak is only about five milligrams.

So even if you're eating lots of red meat, it's pretty difficult to have enough.

Once you get to 18, for some reason, the recommendations change a little bit and it goes up to 18.

Okay, so if you're continuously only having, say, eight or nine or ten in your diet every day and you have a heavy period, you're going to become depleted quite easily spartone lovely stuff, easy to absorb.

Most people don't mind the taste.

It's only five milligrams per sachet.

So, yes, if she's eating a really good rounded diet, so she's having, I know, bolognese and greens and eggs and, you know, black beans and things like that a lot, then five milligrams may be all she needs just to top herself up.

But in most cases, you need more.

Now, a doctor, if you are anaemic, so if you're below that twelve.

And often if actually you're below 30, they sometimes, because when it's menstruating woman, they will give you 200 milligrams a day.

So five spartan 200 milligrams, doctor.

Okay.

However, that 200 milligrams is not that easy to absorb and it's quite tough on the gut.

So if they've got gut issues, sometimes it just feels funny in their tummy.

So my middle ground is to go with a beetroot based iron, and you can take up to 40 milligrams.

So that would be four capsules a day because it's quite regulated how much is in each capsule, because there are a very small layer of the population who naturally has too much iron in their system.

So they have to be careful.

They maintain to ten milligrams per capsule.

And I.

That's if you know your child is low.

So if you know your child's below 30, for sure it would be four a day.

But you know what I mean?

Or 40 milligrams a day.

And so, yes, sometimes you have to go higher.

Obviously, some younger kids are not very good at taking capsules, so there are sprays as well.

But it's basically, I think people are very, very cautious they go, what if I'm taking too much?

Yeah.

And actually what you have to say is, I need to get my level up.

It's not how much I'm actually taking, because people with gut issues often don't absorb very well.

So you've got a problem with your stomach.

That's one area where your.

Where your body absorbs iron and then further down as well, in small intestine, again, you absorb the iron.

So if there's celiac disease or autoimmunity or, I know, some sort of malabsorption or, you know, even, you know, gastritis or something like that, you may not be absorbing enough iron.

It's a really, really big problem across the board whether you have ADHD or not.

And there are lots of people who may think they might have ADHD, but it may just be low iron.

And, you know, I learned this the hard way, being quite more relaxed about my iron levels.

And it's when I eventually got to around 70, 80, suddenly my brain was on fire.

And it's made an enormous difference.

And I had to work quite hard on it.

But I did get there.

That's really interesting.

And listen, there's a lot of women who listen to this and they suspect they've got ADHD and they may not necessarily have had the diagnosis or they're awaiting a very, very long wait for an assessment, and they're desperate for ways that they can bring in that, you know, obviously, you know, they can't get their medication, but what can they be doing to their lifestyle and their diet to help them in the meantime, I wanted to ask you about zinc as well and how important that is for us as neurodivergent women and also for our kids as well.

Yeah, so that's a really great question.

So zinc is the second most abundant mineral in your central nervous system.

So iron's key.

But then zinc is just as important, and it helps with the reuptake of most of your neurotransmitters.

So dopamine, norepinephrine.

So most of the medications are working on that axis of increasing that dopamine uptake and reducing that hydren anxiety sort of state.

So it helps with both of those things.

It helps to make something called GaBA.

And GABA is our neurotransmitter that keeps us cool, calm and relaxed, helps us sleep, helps with anxiety, helps with the OCD side of things.

Really, really important.

So zinc is really important for those.

It's also important for immunity.

So if you're always getting colds and coughs or your little ones are doing the same, especially those with ADHD, then zinc may be the thing.

But the big, big thing for zinc is zinc can help with mood swings.

So if everyone's walking around you as if on eggshells because you're very fiery at the moment, because you feel all over the shop, or your child again, you've got this child that's really difficult to manage, this emotional dysregulation is all over the shop.

Then sometimes it's a high need for zinc.

And especially so if they're also a highly selective eater or have very disordered eating.

So they, you know, they graze all day, they binge, but they won't eat a real meal, or they are, well, only eat beige, crunchy food and nothing else.

Because zinc helps with gastric juices, it helps with sense of smell, it helps with sense of taste.

So it's a sort of really important one, sort of globally for someone.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm listening to you and just thinking it's such hard work right now because your information is incredible.

But there's so much pressure on us as parents when we couldn't be busier, you know, working mums careers, navigating everything post pandemic, I just kind of want to put it out there and go, yes.

Even for someone like us who knows quite a bit, it's really overwhelming.

And I just want to say that as a caveat to anyone that's listening here going, how am I meant to do this?

How am I meant to kind of like, overhaul my kids diet when they are so, you know, stubborn or, you know, they refuse any kind of like, change in their diet?

How do we bring more zinc in, like for ourselves and for the kids?

And like you say, you know, with, with food, what you, the example that you mentioned about the steak only having x amount of milligrams and then obviously the supplement having way more.

Do we supplement our kids and ourselves with zinc then?

So it's really tricky to get it right.

We see at nature dog, we've seen many, many hundreds, if not thousands of kids who are super highly selective eaters.

And the parents say there is no way they are going to switch from their Tesco chicken nugget to a Sainsbury's chicken nugget, let alone having a homemade one.

You know, that it's got to that stage.

And so that's where supplements can be helpful because they are fairly tasteless, especially zinc drops.

They can go in the apple juice and they don't taste of blood.

They taste maybe a little bit metallic, but you can, as I said, you know, you can hide the taste pretty easily.

And over six, eight weeks, often they become more interested and curious in food and more willing to try.

So as I said, that can be an inroad if you're overwhelmed by thinking, I'm not going to change the diet, but I'm going to put the drops in.

Or equally, you might say, hey, actually, you know what?

It's not too bad.

I think I can get more in.

So that's what my recipe is all about.

So most kids love a pasta and tomato.

I have, a lot of people love something called spaghetti vongole, which they would have in Italy in abundance.

They've got little clams in them.

Clams have got b twelve.

They've got iron, they've got zinc.

They're amazing.

They're tiny, they're squishy.

They can be squished into that tomato sauce very easily and not make it taste too strong.

So that's one recipe, again, pesto pasta.

Loads of people love pesto pasta, right?

And you can put a white crab in there.

Again, not very strong tasting.

Again, lots of zinc in there.

Now, these may be, again, too overwhelming for your child right now, but you can think about my tahini black bean brownies.

They've got zinc, they've got calcium, they've got iron in there, and they're amazing.

And they're so popular, so you could bake with them at the weekend, bake some brownies.

You know, most kids love that.

And again, I've got some chocolate waffles with quinoa.

And again, those have got trace minerals of, of these various minerals in there.

So there are ways of getting things in through crunchy, beige, chocolatey things that they enjoy.

And as you showed me earlier with your copy of brain brilliance, you know, you fold it over corners, you put post it notes in, and I get the kids to do that, too.

So they're engaged with the process and they've chosen something to make and you can make it with them.

And I know that takes time.

So, as I said, do it at the weekends, do it at half term, do it in the holidays when you've got that little bit more time on your day off, you know, whatever it might be, and make it a joy for all of you rather than, you know, a chore.

And yes, you might.

You know, I'm not the best baker in the world, but I've learned to find good things because my kids just love that.

Kind of thing, and we've all got a sweet tooth.

What I wanted to ask was if we wanted to supplement with the zinc drops.

Can we put it in hot food or will it get ruined?

Or does it have to be in cold drinks or cold food?

Zinc can be cooked to bits.

You can put it in pancake mix, you can put it in a hot drink, you can put it in anything, whereas that's different to vitamin C, for instance, which can be killed off quite easily by heat.

There's very few.

No, no rules when it comes to supplements.

Really?

Really.

I think people imagine if you're eating a three course meal, okay, so you're going to a restaurant and you have a nice starter, then you have a lovely main course, you have a lovely pudding, you will have a bit of calcium, a bit of zinc, a bit of magnesium, a bit of vitamin C, some B vitamins.

You'll have all those nutrients and all those different foods in different sort of types of food, but they'll all be in there.

There'll be proteins, there'll be carbohydrates, there'll be fats.

Right?

So that's a whole kind of mixture of different things.

So it's the same as supplements.

You know, you just as, you know, you might put saffron into a paella, which has got some prawns in, which has got zinc.

So these things all combine naturally in nature.

Yeah.

I mean, you talk about saffron, and for me, that's been a real game changer.

I went to my local health food shop, which the lady who runs it is incredibly knowledgeable, and I think she's gone through similar training to you.

And I went in there before Christmas last year and I was really, really stressed.

My anxiety was heightened.

There was just a lot going on life wise, career wise, just family wise.

And I said to her, like, I'm on the verge of going back to my doctor and saying, yes, I do want to take this sort of anti anxiety medication, which had kind of pushed back from after I'd known that it was ADHD that was driving my anxiety and I had found other ways to manage it, but I.

It just felt so unmanageable at that period of time.

And I said, before I go to my doctor, is there anything that you can recommend?

And she said, have you tried saffron?

And I said, no.

So she gave me some saffron and within about a week, I really noticed that this high level, I would say dysregulation, like anxious.

This anxiety that was driving me, this vital flight in my nervous system was much lessened and I have been taking it sort of on and off since then, so it's almost like a year now.

Would you say that Saffron is a key supplement for women, perimenopausal, neurodivergent women?

Is that something you'd recommend?

Absolutely, 100%.

I think it is magic stuff.

So essentially what Saffron does is it helps to bring down that high fight or flight cortisol state that so many women are in, and that's why you could be anxious, not sleep, etcetera.

So Saffron basically helps to bring that right down to what it's known as an adaptogen, which means it's a herb or, well, it's a spice that helps to adapt those hormones to normalise them over time.

It's been used in studies mainly with children, but, you know, equally in adults.

It's just as important is it has been used compared with methylphenidate and found to be as effective without the side effects.

Now, I'm not saying it should replace anything that's been prescribed, but it's something to consider, especially if the medication's nothing suiting you that well or you're on a very long waiting list.

And the other thing is, Saffron's incredibly important.

It's been used for centuries for premenstrual tension.

So PM's, stroke, PMDD, which a lot of neurodivergent women experience, that ten days running up to their period, they're all over the shop, their anxiety's through the roof, they almost feel they've got borderline personality disorder.

You know, they're really, really, really out of whack.

And Saffron has been found to really help that.

It's also really helpful for incredibly heavy, crampy, painful periods too.

So it is a woman's really good friend, whether you're neurodivergent or not.

But I would say it's one of the first signs of going through perimenopause is a heightened anxiety.

And so therefore saffron can be so helpful at that stage when I.

Most doctors would not be happy to give you HRT at that point, but you've still got the symptoms and, you know, as you said, you dip in and out of it when you need it, so you're not like, having to take it every day.

So, you know, obviously, medications you have to be very consistent with.

Whereas what I love is, I think that ADHD is a quite intuitive.

I think it's one of our real super skills, and we really know ourselves, and therefore, you can say, hey, you know what I really am benefiting from right now, actually, it's not benefit so much at the moment.

Oh, actually, I know my period's coming up, so I'm going to take it then.

And so you can slightly manage things yourself rather than kind of everything being prescribed and fearful of whether you can or can't or.

Oh, what if I missed a day by mistake and it's okay?

Yeah.

And one of the things that I know that you talk about is, is Gaba and how powerful that can be and finding that in different sources and that helping with our moods, with dysregulation, I think anxiety as well, our nervous system.

Can you tell us a little bit how we can supplement either with GabA or find it in food and what, I guess, increased Gaba does to our overall wellbeing?

Yeah.

So just to remind everyone, Gaba is this neurotransmitter we create in our brain, which helps to keep us cool, calm, and relaxed.

So for us women, it helps with anxiety, it helps with sleep, it makes us feel much more zen like, and our brains calmer, so it's less scattered, it's more focused.

For teenagers.

Those that don't have enough Gaba can be real risk takers.

So they're the ones that are, you know, going off, trying lots of naughty things like narcotics and alcohol and things like that.

Maybe missing bunking off school and not talking about actually too fearful to go to school, but actually just bunking off that sort of thing, you know, just getting into trouble.

There's often they need more gabba.

Gaba also is really important for that whole OCD space.

So very often when you don't have enough gabba, your brain has something called too much glutamate, which is too excitatory, and it can make your brain feel as if it's in a trap of repetitive thoughts.

And so Gaba is sort of calming and helps to take away those repetitive thoughts.

And so you're sort of.

You don't get trapped as such.

So in terms of foods and so forth, just to say, in terms of supplements, in the UK, gaba supplements are not available.

So you have to specifically take other things that help to create Gaba or have a natural form of gaba.

But you can't actually take GABA supplements.

It's because there's a medication called gabapentin, which needs to be very, very carefully managed because it's a very strong medication, and therefore, you know, it's just because it's got the same word, it's sort of been seen as it, you know, we're not quite sure, but chamomile tea.

This is why everyone loves chamomile tea, especially in the evening, because it puts you in that lovely soporific state.

Helps you wind down, helps you sleep well.

So chamomile tea, equally just normal green tea or even black tea, contains quite a lot of substance called theanine.

And theanine L.

Theanine is an amino acid, which, again, helps to make lots of gaba.

So it's why, if you've had a nasty shock and you're all shaky, someone says, have a cup of tea, love, and you feel so much calmer afterwards.

Some people can't do the caffeine, for whatever reason, it sort of irritates their system.

And so you can take theanine supplements on their own, which is basically extracted from green tea without the caffeine.

And then other things that help to make Gaba, things like oats, yoghurt, kefir, certain cheeses.

Some of the swiss cheeses have quite a lot of gabba in them.

Like which ones, out of interest?

Sort of gouda and emmental things like that.

Okay.

And so, yes, there are ways of basically calming down the system with Gaba.

And the nutrients that help to make Gaba are magnesium, zinc and b six.

But one of the reasons why, I suspect, and there is research about this, too, there's an amazing woman who has an amazing TED talk called Unblind my mind.

It's about their child, who gets very stuck into this OCD picture.

Anyway, it basically talks about glutamate in our food.

So the glutamate, as I said, is excitatory, can make you very anxious.

OCD could even lead to migraines and seizures when it's really out of hand.

And the trouble is ultra processed foods that we're all eating far too much of, especially in the UK, often, I'm not saying always, but often has a high level of glutamate in there.

Not MSG.

The only two foods I found with MSG still are Doritos and Pringles, but everything else seems to have switched.

But what they do instead is they put in, like, yeast extract or natural flavourings in our foods.

So they sort of sound quite nice.

You know, that's like marmite and.

Oh, that's a natural flavoring.

But they're very, very concentrated forms of those foods, and those can act as free glutamate on the brain.

So I guess what it is, is if you feel dysregulated having eaten a big packet of Doritos or your child is out of kilter, you know, having eaten a whole load of processed foods, it may not just be the sugar.

There may be this high glutamate, and it may be that glutamate Gaba balance.

So I think, obviously, cooking from scratch as much as possible will help to reduce that input of glutamate and then just trying to have as much gaba as possible.

But, you know, the Epsom salt bars will give you gaba vigorous exercise.

Why do us ADhders benefit so much from vigorous exercise?

Because it makes gabA.

Yoga, breathing, meditation, mindfulness, all those things that I do find hard to do because my brain doesn't like to be very still, but when I do it, I feel so much better.

Yeah.

And I.

So there's all this research.

I mean, I say to you earlier, we've got this gorgeous little puppy, and I'm outdoors a lot more in the morning.

So I'm getting the first morning light, I'm getting fresh air, a little bit of exercise, running around with him, and those are all doing me so much good.

And it's not like I'm doing some HIIT class or.

But I'm getting out there.

So I'm doing all the things that are so important for the ADHD brain, but it's because it's for the puppy and not for me.

So sometimes you need to have an excuse to do these things, but the even small amounts really count.

Yeah, I love that.

And I love how you've just given that example, for sure.

I mean, I went out this morning, we're recording this.

It's mid September, and the sun was shining.

And I was like, I got my kids out and I thought, right, I'm just gonna go barefoot on the grass, and I'm just gonna have a bit of time just to breathe before I start work.

And I have to push myself to do this, you know, to do it outside when it's gray and cold and raining.

Doesn't feel so good.

But I thought, if I can't do this now, I can't do it with the morning sun.

I know it's really good for the melatonin, for just everything.

I know I suffer a little bit with sad.

So I'm trying to get as much of it vitamin D as I can.

And I just kind of walked barefoot on the grass.

And then I noticed that I had, um, hydrangeas that are just coming to an end.

So I thought, I'm going to snip them, I'm going to put them in a vase and that just for 15 minutes to start my day, as opposed to checking my emails, doing everything else that I needed to do.

And so it's these little tweaks, isn't it?

And I just mentioned about the melatonin, because that is really important for us, isn't it, that helps us regulate our sleep.

It finds these sleep patterns that many of us struggle with.

How can we get more melatonin?

Or how can we improve our melatonin without having to take the supplements, which some people I know do have to take.

Yes.

So in the UK, melatonin is not available over the counter, so it does need to be prescribed.

And therefore, again, it's a little bit harder to access than it is in other countries.

So melatonin is basically our body's signal to say, it's nighttime, go to sleep, and in the morning it goes right down and it says, hey, it's the morning, wakey wakey time.

But it also works to reduce inflammation in the body.

And as you mentioned earlier, so many women with ADHD also are in chronic pain.

So a lot are hypermobile, a lot have arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, or just aches and pains, especially during the perimenopause and menopausal years.

So actually optimizing melatonin, so optimizing your sleep could well help with your pain.

Okay.

And help your joints to be nice and sort of fluid and oiled.

So first of all, it's actually removing those screens last thing at night, an hour and an hour and a half beforehand.

It can be really hard to do that.

I find that the hardest thing, probably because my brain wakes up in the evening.

I've always been like this.

It's just my ADHD.

I'm slower in the morning in terms of my brain, but I can do my sort of big stuff, like writing blogs or writing the books or whatever sort of late afternoon, early evening.

It's when I'm most productive.

So I'm learning to stop and to take the screen away.

And then cherries.

So cherries, delicious, whether they're frozen, bottled fresh, it doesn't matter.

Canned, canned juice, you know, supplements, it doesn't matter.

But cherries naturally contain a bit of melatonin.

So having that in the evening and what's exciting is one of the recipes in the book, one of the recipes in brain brilliance is my sleepy cherry smoothie.

Yes.

And I have literally had so many DM's on instagram saying, oh, my God, my.

You know, my kid with ADHD, my autistic child has never slept through the night.

And they had one of those in an Epsom salt bath and they literally slept through till seven, not a peep.

It's like, this is amazing.

And I've been so thrilled because I.

You know, when, you know, it works for you guys as a family, but you're hoping it's going to.

You've worked for quite a few clients, but then it's actually helping other people who are just simply buying this book.

Yeah.

Which is a great recipe.

I've definitely folded that page down because I'm going to try that one.

And then tryptophan rich foods.

Tryptophan, which is also serotonin amino acid, it also ends up turning into melatonin.

So just having lots of things like turkey and chicken and bananas and cashew nuts and avocados generally in your diet can also help too.

And those are all mainly anti inflammatory.

So again, it will help with aches and pains as well as sleep.

Yeah.

I mean, what you have provided in this book is like a bible to people who read a million blogs and Instagram posts and podcasts, and there's so much information out there and it's all flying around and we're listening to it in the car or listening to it on a dog walk.

And we just kind of, like, want it all written in one place.

And that's what you've done with this book.

And, you know, it's arrived.

I literally felt like I just wanted to kind of, like, give you a big hug because what you've given to so many people is a miracle.

Not because we're going to try all the recipes and we're going to do everything you're telling us to do.

It's just because we know that there's options out there.

That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to wait for ages for a GP or a psychiatrist.

Like, we have things that are available to us in our supermarket.

And so instead of trying to getting so overwhelmed, thinking we've got to do a huge overhaul, like, everything has to go, we have to change all our diets.

Like, the kids are just going to have to deal with this, like, new way of living.

We can just start bringing like, a drip feed of, like, you say that the cherry smoothie, like, why?

Let's just try that, or let's just try those bliss balls for, you know, the weekend.

And we can feel that we are doing something.

We are contributing to our own health and our kids health.

And I know that parenting neurodivergent kids, while we're also processing everything ourselves and kids are watching us.

And there's, you know, dysregulation going on.

There's meltdowns, there's tantrums, there's lots of things going on, kind of from our side.

You know, you talk about the OCD, you talk about tics, phobia, anxiety, sleep, things that many parents can't discuss with other people.

Like, there's stigma, there's embarrassment, there's shame.

Like, you know, what have I done to my kid that they, they're going through this, or why can't they sleep through the night and they're ten or they're bed wetting?

And, you know, we put that on ourselves as parents.

Like this shame and understanding that we live in this world where we, there's so much stuff going in our food that we don't know.

And with this, you know, there's so much, you know, stuff going in, into all the kids food that they eat when we're not with them.

And we can reclaim a little bit of control.

And I just want to say thank you.

And I really urge anyone who is in a situation where, like, they are struggling financially, like, to come and have maybe an appointment with you or your team, maybe quite costly, or to speak to other people, you know, in similar situations, getting private diagnoses, private blood tests.

Like, all of this is amazing and it's the future, but right now, it's still very costly.

And we're relying on GPS knowledge, which is very few and far between because they've got so many other things that they're contending with.

But if we can spend, I'm going to see how much it is, 20 pounds or so on your book that is giving us the tools and the ammunition to reclaim a bit of control.

And I feel very strongly that people need to get this, and I don't do this very often with books, but I do feel that we're at this point in our generation where it's like, you know what?

Enough's enough.

Enough of letting big companies and corporations and supermarkets and pharmaceuticals taking control.

And we as people need to go.

No, I'm going to be more.

More intentional and more conscious and more aware of what I can do for myself and for my kids.

So, yeah, I just want to say thank you, Lucinda.

It's very passionate.

That came from a very impassioned place, but I hope people know that it's authentic.

Kate, that's just so lovely.

And I think the most important thing, knowing about this nutrition is the right nutrition helps how you feel and not who you are.

So you'll still have your ADHD, you'll still be yourself, but you'll just all feel so much better and live a better life.

Yeah, that's what we all want.

And I think when we finally get these diagnoses and we get an understanding and a validation of what's been going on for ourselves, but also, like, for our kids who have been living, you know, we've lived difficult, challenging times with our kids and to finally go, okay, right, we know what's going on.

There's dyslexia, there's ADHD, it's autism.

We understand, like, their behavior, but then it's kind of like, okay, I understand now, but what do we do?

Like, how do we move things along and make things better and let them also make these empowered choices?

And I think if we start bringing these things in, keep the book open, have, like you say, be interactive with the recipes, discuss the little things.

Drop in the nuggets.

I'll finish off with something that I have.

I have Epsom salts in the kids bathroom by the bath and I have it in my bathroom.

I have oils that I've bought.

I just leave them there and every time a kid comes home and they go and they're in a bad mood or this, I'm like, I'm going to run you a bath and I'll do this whole thing like, you know, welcome to the spa, I'm going to run you a bath, put the salts in.

I mean, I wish someone would do that for me, but it's me doing it for me.

But so they can, when they're older, they can go, oh, you know what, I'm feeling really dysregulated or low mood.

I'm going to do what mum did, I'm going to go and soak in a bath and I'm going to put loads of salts in the.

And that's something that I prefer to spend my money on than, you know, expensive shoes or clothes or whatever.

Like, I really just would prefer to spend it on supplements, salts, oils, good food.

And, you know, I'll buy vintage for the rest of my life.

I don't care.

So that's, you know, that's where I come from.

Tell me if someone is wanting to take your work to the next level after your book.

Like what?

What do you help with?

How can people get in touch with you?

Yeah, so I've got this incredible naturedoc team.

Some specialize in adult ADHD, some in children's ADHD.

We're a team of 23 at the moment.

We're dotted around the country.

We've also got one in Ireland and one in Australia.

So, you know, we do reach internationally as well.

We can do it in person, we can do it by virtual video call.

And basically what we do is we'd spend lots of time with you, discussing your diet, your life, what your issues are, what you'd like to change, what you'd like to get better, etcetera, whether it's you or your child.

We would then probably run some tests and this could be.

So the main one we do is a urine test, and it looks at vitamins, minerals, amino acids, inflammation markers, gut markers, glutamate, gaba, you know, the dopamine, all of these things.

So it looks at everything and it gives you a really good snapshot what is going on right now and then, which areas are priority.

Because I think the big thing that I found as a parent, especially with my eldest, who was really, really struggling, was where to start.

And so once I had it on paper, knowing exactly what he needed or didn't need, then I could prioritize, and that meant so much to me.

And he also made really quick gains because of that, because it was hyper focused on what he needed.

So it's all very individual.

Amazing.

I'll put all the details on the show notes, the link to the book, which I urge people to get.

And I just want to thank you for your time and for your knowledge and for giving us what you've given in this book.

Because I can see how much time and effort that must have taken, must have taken years of collating it all.

Okay, thank you so much.

It's been such a fab chat.

And thank you for all your.

All you do for the ADHD world.

You are incredible.

If you've enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to check out my brand new subscription podcast called the Toolkit.

Now this is where I'm going to be opening up my entire library.

My vault of information from over the years.

My workshops, webinars and courses.

My conversations with experts about hormones, nutrition, lifestyle, and bringing brand new, up to date content from global experts.

This is going to be an amazing resource for you, to support you and guide you even more on more niche topics and conversations so you can really thrive and learn to live your best life with ADHD.

I'm so excited about this.

It's the Toolkit on Apple Podcast and you get a free trial.

Really hope to see you there.

You.