Sir Daniel: 00:00:16

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:19

I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: 00:00:21

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

Jay Ray: 00:00:24

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

Jay Ray: 00:00:28

How you doing, sir Daniel?

Sir Daniel: 00:00:30

I am fantastic.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:31

Happy to be, um, doing another episode of Queue Points podcast, dropping

Sir Daniel: 00:00:35

the needle on black music history.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:38

Now, Jay Ray, we've been wanting to, we've been dancing around this

Sir Daniel: 00:00:40

subject for a minute now, and.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:44

We just, We discovered, um, a young man by the name of Calvin Michaels and he is

Sir Daniel: 00:00:49

a musician in his own right and has his own, a very interesting story of his own.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:54

So we were like.

Sir Daniel: 00:00:55

Let's just kill two birds with one stone and just chat with Mike, chat with Calvin

Sir Daniel: 00:01:00

and see if he could help the uncles out the OGs out with any information.

Sir Daniel: 00:01:05

But Jay Ray, let's introduce our guest to the audience.

Jay Ray: 00:01:09

Absolutely.

Jay Ray: 00:01:09

Y'all, we are so excited

Jay Ray: 00:01:12

to welcome Calvin Michaels to Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:01:15

Calvin, welcome to the show.

Jay Ray: 00:01:17

How you doing?

Jay Ray: 00:01:18

Hey.

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:19

Hey guys.

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:19

Happy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:20

What?

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:20

What's today?

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:21

Wednesday?

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:21

Happy Wednesday.

Jay Ray: 00:01:22

Right.

Sir Daniel: 00:01:23

It's a blur, it's

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:24

It's, it's a blur.

Calvin Michaels: 00:01:25

We all just making it right.

Jay Ray: 00:01:27

We're

Sir Daniel: 00:01:29

Absolutely.

Sir Daniel: 00:01:30

Calvin, you're, you're, um, you're tuning in, or this is beaming in, I should say,

Sir Daniel: 00:01:35

from chocolate city itself, Washington DC And we, with, as far as music is

Sir Daniel: 00:01:42

concerned, as I just saw something recently, um, that was talking about.

Sir Daniel: 00:01:48

Gogo, I think it's something that came up on my social media feed.

Sir Daniel: 00:01:52

Feed about the power of Gogo and how, of course, you know, Gogo is very

Sir Daniel: 00:01:59

germane to Washington dc but tell us about what influence DC has on

Sir Daniel: 00:02:06

you as a musician and your artistry.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:10

You know, I'll definitely say, especially when it comes to go, go.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:15

You really have to be at a live, go-go to really get it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:19

Because I'm originally from the other Washington, like Washington State.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:23

Uh, my parents were military, so we bounced and moved around, but I moved

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:26

here for college and just never left.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:28

And um, I remember I. When I was first hearing, like, what Go-Go was from

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:35

Washington State, I was being told, oh, just think of like the Rich Harrison stuff

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:40

that he does with Beyonce and Amarie.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:42

So I was like, oh, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:43

All right.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:43

You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna good to DC it's gonna

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:45

be 21 things on the radio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:47

And then, um, when I got here, I remember we were at a club and then they

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:50

started playing like these different tracks, and at first I couldn't

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:54

quite gather what I was experiencing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:57

It.

Calvin Michaels: 00:02:58

It wasn't bad or anything, it was just so.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:00

Different.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:01

Right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:01

Give it two, three weeks later.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:03

Oh, I was in there and probably knew every word, every song.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:05

I think what it is is Gogo just has, there's this richness in this raw.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:10

Um, essence to it, where it, it really is what I say, a genre

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:14

that has never been watered down.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:16

It's still in its original element.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:18

And, and even though it's kind of, um, evolved into different forms, 'cause you

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:22

have kind of like your pocket go-go, you have, um, you, you have these different

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:25

versions where there's something that's a bit more energetic, some that's

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:28

real smooth and, and subtle, but it, there's just, when I say it's just an

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:33

unapologetically black genre and it's so representative of not only just.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:39

The Washington DC area, but just culture here, um, where we are collectively

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:44

in whatever times are taking place in the United States politically, or it

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:49

just, it's a reflection of all of that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:50

So as far as it correlating to my sound, um, what I've always appreciated about

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:55

Gogo is that it doesn't matter how old the song is, none of the songs ever sound

Calvin Michaels: 00:03:59

old because it's all live instrumentation.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:01

And I've noticed with music.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:04

Songs that are recorded with live instrumentation

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:06

versus samples in, in studio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:08

Um, never sound old.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:09

So if you take like a brand new heavies never stop, which is from 30 years,

Jay Ray: 00:04:14

30 years, 30 plus

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:15

will always sound fresh.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:17

No matter how many times you put it on, that's go-go.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:21

I think, and I, I always tell people, you really won't get it until you

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:24

are there and hear it in person.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:25

'cause it's a different kind of energy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:27

It's something that I don't think you can translate the same way

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:29

through speakers, but when you're at one and you just, you just feel it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:34

And the people that are around, it's, it's, it, it's, it's like even the

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:37

church I go to is a go-go church.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:39

Like the song's gotta be, I want some gospel.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:41

Go-go.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:42

You gonna sing it right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:43

Sing it in

Jay Ray: 00:04:43

hear that, right?

Sir Daniel: 00:04:44

need that in my veins right now.

Sir Daniel: 00:04:47

A little praise and worship with With a, with a pocket.

Sir Daniel: 00:04:50

Oh, tell

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:51

yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's great.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:53

It's awesome.

Calvin Michaels: 00:04:53

So,

Jay Ray: 00:04:54

Wow.

Jay Ray: 00:04:55

So to that point, so Calvin, you are a musician.

Jay Ray: 00:05:01

You do so many things.

Jay Ray: 00:05:03

True definition, multihyphenate, you're dancing, you're singing, podcasting,

Jay Ray: 00:05:08

commentary, all of those things, right?

Jay Ray: 00:05:11

One, um, how did this start for you?

Jay Ray: 00:05:16

Like what was your entry point into kind of your artistic journey?

Jay Ray: 00:05:20

I'm really curious about that.

Jay Ray: 00:05:22

Um, and when you think about your artistry and what you do, like what

Jay Ray: 00:05:27

do you wanna leave on the world like?

Jay Ray: 00:05:29

So how did you enter and what do you want people to get from it?

Jay Ray: 00:05:32

Yeah,

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:32

Yeah, so like I was saying, because my parents were military,

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:36

we moved a few times and there was a portion when I turned eight when we

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:40

moved to Za Italy, which was cool.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:43

However, I. This is the nineties.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:46

This is like 96, 97.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:48

So, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:50

With that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:50

At the time there was no cable on the military base.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:53

You had one channel called a FN to watch and a FN was American Forces Networks.

Calvin Michaels: 00:05:57

And that was kind of like, they just took the best of what was on

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:00

all the major networks and that was your, your entertainment.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:03

So we didn't really watch TV because um, it just wasn't a whole lot to choose from.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:07

So you were outside, you found creative things to do.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:11

So as far as how, I guess I got in, it probably would've

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:13

been through dance first.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:14

This lady had just come from America.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:17

She had Janet's velvet Rope, DVD that she, or not even DVD

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:20

I'm, I'm jumping the gun here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:21

VHS that she recorded off the TV when it aired.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:25

Um, and I saw, and mind you, I hadn't really seen at this point, it's like 98.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:30

I haven't really seen music for two years.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:32

I, I've heard it, you know, some of the big, big songs in the US with

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:35

Crossover and find Its Way to Europe.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:37

But a lot of what was happening in America.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:39

I was out of the loop one, I didn't know who was doing what.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:41

My brain was calibrated in 96 so that I saw that concert.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:46

And other than I think Whitney's uh, welcome Home

Jay Ray: 00:06:48

Mm-hmm.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:49

Concert from like 91, that was the only

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:51

concert I remember ever seeing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:52

So when I saw that, I.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:54

Hooked.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:54

Let me emulate everything I see.

Calvin Michaels: 00:06:56

And then somebody else ended up having Michael Jackson's, um, history one,

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:00

one of them shows they, so I used to watch that in VE Rope just all

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:03

the time and kind of just started teaching myself to kind of dance.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:07

And then when we moved back to America, we moved to another small

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:10

town called Spanaway, Washington.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:12

Not a whole lot to do.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:13

You have nothing to do, but be creative.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:14

So, um, it, I mean, it's kind of, I feel like everything kind

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:17

of happened at the same time.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:18

I was also, you know, a kid that grew up in the church,

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:20

so you had to be in the choir.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:21

And we went to a storefront church, so everybody participates.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:24

You go, you going to, I was Usher choir and eventually choir director.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:28

And if they do the Easter play and the Christmas program,

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:31

you gotta be in that too.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:32

Right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:32

So now you, you're doing theater.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:34

And then I kind of jumped in the theater in, in middle and high school.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:38

Um, I was on like the actual dance teams in high school, but as far as the YouTube

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:41

channel, as far as me getting a presence, um, I used to teach dance on the side.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:46

Um, and so by the time I got to Howard, I had these different contracts with

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:49

a bunch of different teams, and then I got into Howard and I needed to move

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:53

to dc but I wasn't done with the teams and I'd already signed contracts.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:56

So what ended up happening is.

Calvin Michaels: 00:07:58

We came to like an A medium 'cause I could just couldn't keep

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:01

flying each weekend to teach.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:03

Um, I would do the lessons on YouTube with an unlisted link and just send

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:08

my lessons in the choreography and, you know, do these different teams

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:12

and then, you know, I'd fly special occasion when it's competition time.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:15

And so that's how the YouTube channel initially started.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:17

So people sometimes will see my challenge, like, oh, he started in oh five, he old.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:21

I was like, no, I didn't start like the YouTubeing for like

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:23

another handful of years.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:25

So it started with that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:27

After college.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:28

Um, I graduated at the peak of the recession, so there were no jobs.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:33

I went right back home, bored to death, and somehow I just randomly was like,

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:37

I think I'm gonna do a comedy show.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:39

And so I randomly went and did a comedy show and it went really well.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:42

And then I did like another and another, and I was like, actually, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:46

So then I started using the YouTube channel to promote my comedy shows.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:49

I would, you know, showcase that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:51

Um, that's all like 20 10, 20 11.

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:54

Fast forward, I. There's this lady named Bethany Storrow, um, who lived

Calvin Michaels: 00:08:59

in Vancouver, Washington, which is a town where there's probably

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:01

about three of us over there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:02

And long story short, she claimed that she had been attacked by this black woman who

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:07

threw acid on her face, and she was on the news, whole face, green skin burned off.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:10

Everything turned out she made it all up.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:12

Um, and it was because she was trying to get the attention of her

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:15

ex-boyfriend, and so she needed a tragedy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:18

I'm like, well, why you gotta put us in it?

Jay Ray: 00:09:19

Right?

Jay Ray: 00:09:20

Like how we get in it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:21

Yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:21

So that kind of pulled me into, now I got something I want to say, and

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:26

that's when I started actually making the YouTube videos and talking.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:29

So I did that for some years.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:30

Um, then I started just jumping into new projects.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:33

Um, I did a web series called Generation Black, maybe 10 years ago.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:36

We did that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:37

Um, how we got into the music.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:41

Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:43

I, um, had already been meaning to build a recording.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:46

Pseudo, I've always done music anyway.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:48

I've always had like a keyboard or something, but I just wanted

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:50

to do it more officially.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:51

And then, um, I always remember, speaking of Janet, I had tickets to the Unbreakable

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:55

Tour and then that's the one that got postponed 'cause she was pregnant.

Calvin Michaels: 00:09:59

And so the money I had from the.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:02

Refund from that tour, plus my tax refund.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:05

I was like, I have enough to build a studio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:07

And so I just went to Guitar Center, was like, Hey, I wanna build a studio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:10

What do I need?

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:11

And then we kind of played around.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:13

And before you know it, I had an album and then another album.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:15

And in between the two albums came to comedically Hard Headed podcast.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:19

Um, because the YouTube channel was very political and people are like,

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:23

you're funny, but you, you scare us.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:25

And I'm like, I'm scaring y'all.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:26

What?

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:27

So that was the podcast.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:28

I was like, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:28

So then we launched like, or I'm saying we like there's somebody else here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:31

But I launched the Comedically Hardheaded podcast, which was

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:36

like a storytelling podcast.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:37

So that's all humor.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:39

We ain't cussing nobody out, it's just all good laugh.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:41

Um, so I'm trying to wrap this up 'cause I'll talk in circles.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:43

Um, and then from there it's really kind of just built and, and branded.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:47

We ended up doing a short film 'cause somebody found one of the episodes

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:50

and thought it was hilarious.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:51

We just did the film festival circuit last year with one of the episodes from that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:56

And so that's been that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:10:57

But getting to the question about, um, I guess impact of

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:00

what legacy I would like to make.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:01

I just wanna live in my purpose, right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:03

And I think our purpose, we have that North Star, but there are

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:09

different ways to get there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:10

So at this point, I'm taking 15 different routes just to get to that star.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:13

So some days it's music, some days it's comedy, some days it's the podcast.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:16

Other days it's a deep dive and I want to talk about, I don't

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:20

know, Motown records or something.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:21

So that's kinda, um, where it's all at.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:23

So I do a little bit of everything, but it's.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:26

You try to find ways to balance it out so you're not, you know, overworked

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:29

and, and, and burnt out tired.

Jay Ray: 00:11:31

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:11:32

Wow.

Sir Daniel: 00:11:34

So Calvin, that's a, that's a lot of living packed into your lifetime.

Sir Daniel: 00:11:39

And

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:40

No, I'm just kidding.

Sir Daniel: 00:11:42

no, we're, we're older than you, trust me.

Calvin Michaels: 00:11:45

right.

Sir Daniel: 00:11:47

And that's why, but that's why I find this so fascinating to talk to you

Sir Daniel: 00:11:52

as somebody who is well traveled and who has lived in various parts of the world.

Sir Daniel: 00:11:59

When you come back home and you.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:03

You are an artist yourself.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:05

You sing, you dance.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:08

Um, tell jokes, all the whole nine when you encounter the factory

Sir Daniel: 00:12:16

that is, and it's, it's a factory.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:19

When you encounter the factory that we here in America know as K-Pop.

Jay Ray: 00:12:22

Kpop

Sir Daniel: 00:12:24

Initially, what is your response?

Sir Daniel: 00:12:27

Initially you're like, 'cause we, okay, so we're not strangers to the boy band

Sir Daniel: 00:12:32

formula here in the States, especially.

Jay Ray: 00:12:35

I loved menudo.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:36

You know?

Sir Daniel: 00:12:37

Right.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:37

Especially, but then when we came to the late nineties, you know, we had the

Sir Daniel: 00:12:42

98 degrees, the ncs, the Backstreet, all of those boy groups and the girl

Sir Daniel: 00:12:47

groups, um, being manufactured like by one or two people in the industry.

Jay Ray: 00:12:51

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: 00:12:52

So when you encounter it as somebody looking from your

Sir Daniel: 00:12:56

lens, as somebody who's lived here in the States but also lived abroad,

Sir Daniel: 00:13:00

what is your initial reaction to.

Jay Ray: 00:13:03

to the,

Sir Daniel: 00:13:04

I guess to the whole American bandstand of it all, like

Sir Daniel: 00:13:11

of of K-Pop and how everything is manufactured, like what was your initial

Sir Daniel: 00:13:15

reaction when you started seeing them?

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:18

So the first time I remember seeing any K-pop, anything

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:22

would've been the early two thousands.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:24

So living back in Washington state, there's a really large southeast,

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:28

um, Asian population and Pacific Islander population really huge.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:32

And so there were additional channels that were tailored to those demographics.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:35

And so I remember one time.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:37

Like my best friend at the time we used, we were music dorks.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:39

We would just sit on the phone and talk music all day to the

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:43

point where other people would be like, yeah, y'all are weird.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:44

Why are y'all talking about somebody?

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:46

You, you, you naming all the band members from some random tour None of us heard of.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:49

But anyway, so we would, sometimes,

Jay Ray: 00:13:52

It does.

Jay Ray: 00:13:52

It's how

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:53

we would sometimes just be on the phone and like,

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:56

you, you know, I'm sure y'all did this too back in the day.

Calvin Michaels: 00:13:57

Like you and your friend would watch the same show on tv and so we were like

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:01

flipping channels one day and it, it ended up on one of these like local access.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:06

Asian channels and they had a segment where they played music videos.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:09

This is about oh 3 0 4.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:11

And so I remember we were watching, and I remember the first video I saw, it was by

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:15

this artist named Lexi, I think it's LEXY.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:18

And she had a song called Girls.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:20

And when I looked at her, I was like, I. This looks so much like

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:25

Janet's all night, don't stop video.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:26

Like similar style, similar lighting.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:29

And I was like, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:31

Interesting.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:31

And then like the next video that played was this, this lady named like Lehi Roy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:35

And she had this song called One 10 Minute and she has the same jersey

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:39

dress that Maya has on in the um, best of Me Remix video with Jay-Z.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:44

I was like, what's going on here?

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:46

We, and and we, we were intrigued though.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:48

I'm not gonna lie.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:48

Like, it was interesting 'cause it's like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:50

We're only teenagers, but you could still tell like, okay, this is

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:53

really like a, an emulation here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:14:56

And so I don't remember the name of the show, but it came on once

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:00

a week and we used to just sit and watch to see all these videos

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:03

and every video that came out.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:05

It was interesting because it was almost like the imaging they had was

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:08

maybe a few years behind what we were doing at the moment, production wise.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:11

I take that back, the imaging was matching up, but the

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:13

production was a few years behind.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:15

It sounded like, you know, maybe 2000, not 2004, 2005 ish.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:19

And um, so we were just like, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:23

Um, now I will say, um, in comparison to the now, I think what they were

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:29

doing then was a bit more, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:33

Well-rounded than now.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:35

I think right now you really do see the evidence of that kind of factory,

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:38

that kind of just throw it all out there because I, I felt like those

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:43

artists that were out in those earlier years that, I think there's one like

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:45

the, there was I think a guy named bi.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:48

There was, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:50

I'm skipping so many people, uh, I'm forgetting these names, but they all

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:53

had their own kind of personalities.

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:55

What I'm noticing about this current era is I can't tell who's who, and that's

Calvin Michaels: 00:15:59

not to sound like ignorant, but as far as just the distinction between their

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:03

sound, even the imaging and their music videos, the, the music production, the

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:07

choreography, it's like everybody has exactly the same package presentation.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:12

I mean, it, it's cool visually, I guess.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:15

Um, but it's not.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:18

To me, it just feels too calculated and too orchestrated

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:21

and too mechanical I think.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:24

And, and that's, maybe that's just 'cause I'm a little older

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:27

than the target audience.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:29

And I do remember when K-POP was not a thing in the United States.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:33

Um, to the extent that it is now, something has just always felt

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:36

off and I just always think to.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:39

I wanna say this is the 2018 or 2019 Billboard Music Awards and New Edition

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:46

and new Kids on the Block had a joint performance, and I remember them

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:50

panning to BTS, you know, the big boy band that was really, really big.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:53

And you know, you've seen their videos, they just da da da.

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:55

But what, what's so interesting is when they were doing Bobby's, um, every

Calvin Michaels: 00:16:59

little step I take in the segment, I noticed BTS was dancing, but they

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:03

weren't on the rhythm to the song.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:05

And I was like, wait a minute.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:06

Now y'all can do all this choreography and spit on your head, but y'all

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:10

can't catch the two and the four, I was so confused and then I realized,

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:13

well that's because they're, this is not what they're rooted in.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:16

This is something, there's a conversation of skilled verse trained.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:19

Right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:19

And so I was like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:22

This makes sense.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:23

This is why like, yeah, they can emulate, but you can tell that a lot of times it's

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:26

not really what they're rooted in now.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:29

It's made a lot of money.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:31

It's, I mean, these are acts that are selling out stadiums in the

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:33

US at this point now, but, um, I think there's a specific demographic

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:38

that appreciates it and, you know, that they're able to market to.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:41

But I think there's an entire another segment that is

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:45

just never gonna be into it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:46

And that's kind of where I think a lot of, I'll throw myself in there to be honest.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:50

Um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:51

It's cool.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:52

It's just, it's not my bread and butter to, to run behind.

Calvin Michaels: 00:17:57

Uh, and I just, I, I don't think they have that full identity of

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:01

what they want to be artistically.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:03

It's, it's more so the marketing and the branding they have that

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:06

mastered, but the authenticity and the artistry, I don't think is there,

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:10

which is why you see so many these acts just blow up and then disappear.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:14

and what makes it even crazier now that I think back at it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:16

One of the things I remember when we saw those early versions, and mind

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:19

you, K-pop was already out by the time I discovered it, it had been

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:22

been a thing since about the mid nineties, and I'm 10 years late, right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:26

I, I specifically remember that Lehigh Roy, just one 10 minute

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:30

video, y'all please go watch that when you get a chance.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:32

But there's a scene where.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:34

They're riding with the top down and I guess, what was the Korean hood?

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:38

And then they pan to all the Korean dudes playing basketball.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:42

And we were like, what?

Jay Ray: 00:18:43

now.

Jay Ray: 00:18:43

Wait a minute now.

Jay Ray: 00:18:44

Now wait a minute.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:46

and the, this one we were still wearing the va, it was

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:48

like, it was like 20 Allen Iversons in the video, but they were just Korean.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:52

I said, this is.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:53

Uh, you just saw, you could tell that, okay, they're trying

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:56

to piece a certain image here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:18:58

'cause, 'cause what part of Korea is this?

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:00

Because, I mean, you would've, the, the way that it was

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:02

presented was like, oh, okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:03

So y'all in Brooklyn.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:04

Really?

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:04

Okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:05

All right.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:06

Okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:06

So it, it, it's, um, and, and I, I, I get it because again, black

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:12

music influences everybody and our music is really huge there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:15

You know, some of our artists.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:17

Are huge in places like Japan and Korea and Singapore.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:20

So it's, it's no secret that the influence is there, but I, it goes back to what

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:24

I was saying about the idea of Rooted.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:26

So even if you're talking Korean music or, or K-pop, you know, their bread

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:30

and butter before K-pop blew up was Korean folk, which is so left field

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:33

from what is currently out there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:35

So again, it's almost like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:38

Foundation was never there, but they built their foundation off of

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:41

what was happening in the US in the eighties and the nineties, and so

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:44

that's where their foundation stops.

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:46

But if you're talking about like an r and b artist in the United States,

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:50

even an RB artist, they may be born in 2000 even, you know, their, their, um,

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:55

foundation doesn't stop in the eighties because you know what, even though, you

Calvin Michaels: 00:19:58

know, on Sundays if they had to go to grandma's house, grandma was playing

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:02

seventies in the sixties or wherever.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:04

And so there's still that element of.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:06

You know, certain elements of sound being rooted or even if they were a

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:10

family that went to church, you know, those same music theory lessons that

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:14

we indirectly get if you grew up in a church have never really changed.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:17

And the only difference is now they got a guitar and it's a little bit more

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:20

praise and worship ish versus, um, maybe what we grew up on with the choirs.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:24

But, um, there's still that essence of, of, of.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:28

That, that foundation that's still there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:29

And I don't think the K-pop acts really have that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:32

And all they can do is emulate.

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:33

And I think this is why you're seeing so many cycle in and cycle out because

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:37

just 10 years ago, the the two one group that was the two NE and the

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:41

number one, or maybe they're called 21 with, with a massive, massive

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:44

act like they, they were before

Jay Ray: 00:20:46

even heard.

Jay Ray: 00:20:47

That's crazy.

Jay Ray: 00:20:48

'cause I never even

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:49

They were huge and yeah, they were ma and I and some of it was,

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:53

I used to work with kids, so they're a bit more on the internet than I am,

Calvin Michaels: 00:20:56

so they were finding everything, but I remember they were massive at a point.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:00

And then, um, it's like they just fell off the face of the earth.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:03

Um, I'm like, where'd they go?

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:04

And now there's kinda like black pink, which is one that's kind of coddling here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:08

They've done Coachella.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:09

Um, and, and there's some acts, and I'm really not trying

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:12

to whack any of these acts.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:13

Uh, it is just, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:15

It.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:16

It's, I just, I think it's a generational thing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:18

I think if you're of a certain age, you're just never gonna be 100% into it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:22

There will be the anomalies, but overall, I just think if you were rooted in an

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:25

era where, you know, Michael, prince, Whitney, Janet, Mariah, were on your tv,

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:30

I'll even throw Madonna in there, or your tv, it's really hard to be impressed by.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:36

Yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:21:37

You know, that's just where I'm at.

Sir Daniel: 00:21:40

So that, so that kind of, it kind of, um, quells

Sir Daniel: 00:21:47

the kind of the fire that I had.

Jay Ray: 00:21:50

had

Sir Daniel: 00:21:51

Initially when we had the initial conversation, it kind of,

Sir Daniel: 00:21:54

this, kind of dulls that a little bit.

Sir Daniel: 00:21:56

It's like, oh, okay.

Sir Daniel: 00:21:57

They're not, they're really all, uh, it's really about consumption and

Sir Daniel: 00:22:03

then just regurgitating what you've consumed because like you said, I,

Sir Daniel: 00:22:08

there's been years I've seen this guy who does nothing but new Jack swing

Sir Daniel: 00:22:14

choreography and he dances to, I think.

Sir Daniel: 00:22:17

Any new Jack swing song that you could ever think of that

Sir Daniel: 00:22:20

was made between 87 and 95.

Sir Daniel: 00:22:24

He's danced to it and they, they specifically love that particular era.

Sir Daniel: 00:22:29

There's, they have this thing for new jack swing, but then I also think

Sir Daniel: 00:22:35

about how we specifically black people are viewed in different cultures

Sir Daniel: 00:22:42

and as your world traveler, um.

Sir Daniel: 00:22:47

Is it, is, is this, is this modern black face?

Sir Daniel: 00:22:51

it, is there, is there like a, a teaspoon of racism in there?

Sir Daniel: 00:22:57

Because we've all seen the pictures of, you know, the, the kids and it's, it's,

Sir Daniel: 00:23:01

it's definitely tied to youth culture.

Sir Daniel: 00:23:03

The kids that are getting, you know, their hair twisted into Bantu knots and, and

Sir Daniel: 00:23:08

trying to create waves out of their hair.

Sir Daniel: 00:23:11

And as you said, the fashions are very.

Sir Daniel: 00:23:14

Early two thousands with the, you know, the, the, the throwbacks and the, the

Sir Daniel: 00:23:18

throwback skirts and all that other stuff, and they're getting their hair, corn,

Sir Daniel: 00:23:21

rowed and all these kinds of things.

Sir Daniel: 00:23:23

So, but is there an actual, and you can't speak for them, but as somebody

Sir Daniel: 00:23:30

who's traveled and has experienced different cultures as a black person

Sir Daniel: 00:23:34

presenting in this world, is it rooted in.

Jay Ray: 00:23:38

in

Sir Daniel: 00:23:40

And is it rooted in appropriation?

Sir Daniel: 00:23:42

Is it making fun of, is it adoration?

Sir Daniel: 00:23:46

How?

Sir Daniel: 00:23:46

How do you feel about it?

Calvin Michaels: 00:23:48

I always say, just imagine you travel there and you walk

Calvin Michaels: 00:23:52

into a room and you see 15 people with the outfits and the hair and the jewelry

Calvin Michaels: 00:23:57

staring at you like you're crazy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:23:59

Um, how do you feel in that moment?

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:02

Do you feel like I. You know, I, I think it's a combination

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:06

of all of it, to be honest.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:07

I, I really do believe that that community adores what we do.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:11

I mean, 'cause honestly, I think RB hip hop, new Jack swing, for a lot of them

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:16

that was their introduction to what you would call like Western style music

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:19

as opposed to like the Korean folk.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:20

So it's, you know, that's their introduction to certain things.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:25

And I think culturally we've always been emulated, but I think

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:28

where there's a gray area is.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:31

There is still that element of racism that is there and some of these fan bases are.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:36

Crazy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:37

I, I just see it on social media because a lot of them don't want to

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:40

acknowledge that the entire origin and influence of new, uh, uh, of K-pop comes

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:44

from what black artists were doing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:46

That's the main reason why in my new Jack swing deep dive, I opened with

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:49

that, which I got cussed out for.

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:51

'cause the Teddy Riley disciples didn't know where I was going

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:53

with, and I'm like, just keep

Jay Ray: 00:24:54

Just keep why

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:55

They like, what?

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:56

You starting in Korea for Teddy?

Calvin Michaels: 00:24:58

I was like, just, just, just it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:00

I summed it up in four minutes, just gimme four minutes to get it out.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:03

Like, oh man, they were whacking me.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:05

I'm like, y'all,

Jay Ray: 00:25:05

are like, just keep going.

Jay Ray: 00:25:07

Like, we were impressed.

Jay Ray: 00:25:08

That's how we got here.

Jay Ray: 00:25:09

We're like, no, no, no.

Jay Ray: 00:25:10

Yes, Calvin Michaels.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:11

were killing me.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:12

Let me turn this light on.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:13

Let's get

Jay Ray: 00:25:13

Okay.

Jay Ray: 00:25:15

Rutabaga.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:16

Okay.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:16

Yeah, the sun's trying to set on here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:18

But anyway, so, um, yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:20

And so I think, um, I see some element of like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:27

To me, there's some element of racism because there, there's

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:29

a lot of anti-blackness in that region of the world as well.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:31

Right.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:32

Um, and, and even when it comes to certain things like the N word, some

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:37

of 'em have no problem using it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:38

And, and, and some of it is, there's not a full understanding of the blacklight

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:42

in the United States, but some do understand it and just don't care.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:45

Um, and so I think.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:48

It's a weird space because also we now have black American producers

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:51

that are also making their sounds.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:52

So you have people like Sean Garrett and, and Teddy Riley who, you know,

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:56

give some of them their hits too.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:57

And I get it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:58

There's money to be made.

Calvin Michaels: 00:25:59

And I think with K-Pop, for me, I see it as, as a brand and a business model

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:04

more so than like a, a specific genre of music that's rooted in something.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:09

If you notice the, the rollouts, it's, it's centered all in branding.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:13

And how can we get the most commercial gain, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:16

And I think that stems from like what you brought up earlier when

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:19

we talked about the boy bands.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:21

One of the things that was interesting about living in Italy is, you know,

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:24

we got the Backstreet Boys in NSYNC early, um, Backstreet Boys was out,

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:29

I don't wanna say by the time I got to Italy, they were already a

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:32

thing overseas, um, NSYNC as well.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:35

And so I remember moving back to the US in 99 and now N Sync

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:39

is promoting, like tearing up my heart and I'm like, this was.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:42

Two years ago, y'all just now getting this right.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:44

Um, because they were, some of the acts that actually were marketed specifically

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:48

in Germany blew up in Germany.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:49

Germany is only a country and a half away from Italy.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:52

You just go through Switzerland and then we right there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:26:54

Um, and so that model of set them up in Europe.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:00

Model them after Boys to Men, model them after New Edition.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:04

Teach them how to dance.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:05

Give them a little bit of extra swag.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:07

You know, you're gonna get Chris from nsync, who at the

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:09

time, remember he used to

Jay Ray: 00:27:10

He used to have the braids too.

Jay Ray: 00:27:11

Yep.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:11

Had them braids.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:13

Put 'em out there and you get like an AJ from Backstreet Boys who has, he doesn't

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:16

have an ambiguous look, but you can tell he got something else in the bloodline.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:19

So kind of make him look like he's a little bit more spicy than usual,

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:23

and then put them out there and.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:25

Now they got some eight counts down and now we can package them and

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:28

give them to the United States.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:29

Like, I think that's almost where the difference is with the boy bands

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:33

versus like the Spice Girls who I think the Spice Girls kind of stayed

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:36

in a, a super bubblegum pop realm.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:39

But I think the boy bands, there was an effort to really model them after what

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:42

the RB groups were doing at the time.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:44

Like Spice Girls, I think were still, you know, they were still

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:47

a great group, but I, I didn't see them marketed as, you know.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:50

Put them in a room and make them do an in Vogue and TLC doing, I think

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:53

Spice Girls somehow were able to kind of carve their own lane, even

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:56

though the influencers are there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:27:58

I never saw them as carbon copies of, uh, and I'm, I'm not saying that

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:01

about nsync, Backstreet Boys, but you, I, I never saw them as, um, they

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:06

were still factory, a factory group.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:08

They were assembled clearly, but I think it, there was a different, um,

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:12

origin behind their creation, uh, where you have Lou Pearlman who knew

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:15

exactly what he was doing when he.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:18

And even the ties to, um, ah, the guy

Jay Ray: 00:28:21

Maurice

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:22

Maur Starr did the connection with him and Lou

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:25

promo, like so there was an effort.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:26

Yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:27

So, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:28

I think when you jump back to the K-pop conversation, it's the same thing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:31

But the only difference is now we just also this, the language barrier.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:34

'cause a lot of these artists don't speak English either they sing in

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:36

English, they, they don't speak, or they have a very limited scope.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:40

Or sometimes you'll see these groups that win the award, they'll have the,

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:42

the member that speaks it a little bit better that will do all the talking.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:45

And then it's interesting 'cause then when you listen to the lyrics and

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:48

they're talking about, I'm so bad.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:48

I'm so hood.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:49

Hood.

Calvin Michaels: 00:28:50

Like where?

Jay Ray: 00:28:50

who, who and how.

Jay Ray: 00:28:52

Right?

Jay Ray: 00:28:53

You're just singing things.

Jay Ray: 00:28:55

You know what this is bringing up for me and ooh, this is, this makes me mad.

Jay Ray: 00:29:00

Um, but.

Jay Ray: 00:29:02

We do this every time.

Jay Ray: 00:29:04

It is the, um, incessant commercialization of our culture.

Jay Ray: 00:29:09

Like we saw this in the late eighties where all of a sudden all

Jay Ray: 00:29:14

the black producers was producing on all these white groups, right?

Jay Ray: 00:29:17

And given them bops, right?

Jay Ray: 00:29:19

We got so many bops in the new Jack swing era

Calvin Michaels: 00:29:22

Because Jane Child.

Jay Ray: 00:29:23

Baby

Calvin Michaels: 00:29:24

Don't wanna fall in love.

Jay Ray: 00:29:26

day.

Jay Ray: 00:29:27

We talk about that is a jam.

Jay Ray: 00:29:28

Tara Kemps just wanna hold you tight all day.

Jay Ray: 00:29:31

These are jams, right?

Jay Ray: 00:29:33

But.

Jay Ray: 00:29:34

It is just this, this, this connection to commercialization that will have

Jay Ray: 00:29:40

some of us being like, you know what?

Jay Ray: 00:29:43

No, they, I can absolutely have my song on this group, right?

Jay Ray: 00:29:46

This group who has no connection to your history, no real interest in understanding

Jay Ray: 00:29:51

what it means to be rooted in it.

Jay Ray: 00:29:54

Singing over your stuff and that it's, it's, it's business 1 0 1.

Jay Ray: 00:30:00

It's music industry 1 0 1.

Jay Ray: 00:30:02

I get it, but it.

Jay Ray: 00:30:04

It happens all the time, and I still get mad because it waters everything down.

Jay Ray: 00:30:12

And what happens is then we have to do that so that then we can

Jay Ray: 00:30:19

then sell it back to our folks.

Jay Ray: 00:30:21

So these folks took our thing.

Jay Ray: 00:30:23

Made it this, then we have to do that.

Jay Ray: 00:30:26

Right?

Jay Ray: 00:30:26

Put our stank back on it, give it back.

Jay Ray: 00:30:29

But of course we're gonna do it differently.

Jay Ray: 00:30:31

'cause we done put our stank on it.

Jay Ray: 00:30:32

They're gonna be like, okay, that now.

Jay Ray: 00:30:34

Okay.

Jay Ray: 00:30:34

Do what they're doing.

Jay Ray: 00:30:35

And then it's like this cycle and I'm just like, just, I want it to stop.

Jay Ray: 00:30:40

Stop giving these people your, you know what, I ain't getting in nobody's pockets.

Jay Ray: 00:30:43

If you gonna sell your stuff, do your thing.

Jay Ray: 00:30:45

But it makes me mad.

Jay Ray: 00:30:46

Jay Ra.

Jay Ray: 00:30:47

Be mad.

Calvin Michaels: 00:30:49

Yeah, I, I think it's a combination of that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:30:52

I also do think some of it is the labels as well,

Jay Ray: 00:30:54

Of

Calvin Michaels: 00:30:55

they, and, and I think for producers that are trying

Calvin Michaels: 00:30:57

to get on, I. They want the placement.

Calvin Michaels: 00:30:59

So, um, especially the ones that are hungry and that they, they

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:03

just need that foot in the door.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:05

It's, you know, it's, it's music business.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:07

Unfortunately that's, that's the business part, but I, I do think that

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:11

is one of the reasons why r and b music commercially is where it's at

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:14

now because of 20 years of that, where especially our pop artists went a whole

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:20

lot more r and b rooted urban influence.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:23

I don't like the word urban, but that's what they call us.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:25

Um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:26

Once we got to the late nineties, 'cause I, I always tell people, they always

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:30

think I'm crazy, but when Britney Spears came out, um, I thought she was black

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:33

because I didn't see the music video.

Jay Ray: 00:31:34

hit me baby one more time.

Jay Ray: 00:31:36

Was a whole

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:37

it came on the radio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:38

On this, the Italian station was called Disco Rio.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:41

And like I said, we didn't have access to music videos.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:43

There was no MTV or nothing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:45

And so if you're thinking about white girls and pop pre 96, let's just say

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:51

about 90 to 96, the only main pop.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:56

That was a woman that was really doing it was Madonna.

Calvin Michaels: 00:31:58

And even then she was at a slowdown at that point, temporarily, and she

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:01

gave us bedtime stories and erotica.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:03

So she was kind of in a different realm.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:05

But when you thought of white women in music, you know, you, it is kind

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:09

of like a Leanne Rimes kind of sound.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:12

There wasn't really this quote, I guess whatever group Fergie was in that when

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:16

they tried so hard and it, it never grew

Sir Daniel: 00:32:18

Oh, wild, wild Orchid,

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:20

wild, wild or, and

Jay Ray: 00:32:22

That's called

Sir Daniel: 00:32:22

all these crazy runs.

Jay Ray: 00:32:24

right?

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:24

it.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:25

Not to whack them, but no, these folks like, okay, y'all, y'all got a lot.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:28

But when it came to white girls, there was no association with like

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:32

super funky swagged out music.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:33

Not since probably Tina Marie, and she was always more r and

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:36

b rooted and was never really

Jay Ray: 00:32:37

She was doing black music, period.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:39

she passed white people didn't know who she was.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:41

So.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:42

Um, so when Baby One More Time came on, I was like, when is this?

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:46

And so I remember getting Back to America and

Jay Ray: 00:32:49

And you saw her

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:50

was out.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:50

Yeah, sometimes was out.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:51

And I'm like, I think this is that one girl.

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:53

But remember the now music compilations,

Jay Ray: 00:32:55

Uhhuh.

Jay Ray: 00:32:56

Now that's

Calvin Michaels: 00:32:57

when I got to America it was now two and Baby one more

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:01

Time was in the now Too commercial.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:02

And that's when I first saw her and I saw this white girl with pictures.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:04

I was like, what is going on here?

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:06

Like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:07

Because, and then I was in denial and I remember seeing her album cover

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:10

and you know, she has the tan, so I

Jay Ray: 00:33:11

Yes.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:13

She could be like a a, a Mariah kind of,

Jay Ray: 00:33:16

big store.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:17

I was trying so hard for her to be black.

Jay Ray: 00:33:22

You

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:22

I was like, I know she, she gotta, there's no way.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:26

She's what I think she is.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:27

Right.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:28

Um, and so, yeah, but I say all that to say.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:32

You know, when even when you talk about those pop acts, look at how much

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:34

more r and b rooted they became, um, in the later years, like Backstreet

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:38

Boys started getting used songs like the Call with the Neptunes remix.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:41

Christina went dirty and she had the song with Lil Kim and, uh, NSY had

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:46

gone and which was on 1 0 6 and park all day and, and, and girlfriend.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:51

And then that question becomes, well, where did the R and BX go?

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:53

Because now the labels are like, well.

Calvin Michaels: 00:33:55

We could, you know, push Tamia, but we got Christina that can do this.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:00

So you were absolutely right.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:02

Um, I, listen, I think Calvin is like, um, Calvin is definitely

Sir Daniel: 00:34:09

part of the Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:34:11

Yes,

Sir Daniel: 00:34:12

Key points, um, family.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:14

There's a fa there's a huge resemblance here in what we've

Sir Daniel: 00:34:16

been discovering and talking about on our, our, um, show as well.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:21

And just, I don't know, I think the conversation then, or it's not even a

Sir Daniel: 00:34:27

conversation for us, but for the general public hearing in the United States, but.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:32

As people who live in this country, who are, who are black men, who are music,

Sir Daniel: 00:34:37

who consume music, you know, we just have these questions and I'm grateful to

Sir Daniel: 00:34:42

have somebody with another perspective to come by and kind of like, well, this is

Sir Daniel: 00:34:46

what, and kind of teach us what happens.

Sir Daniel: 00:34:49

So I appreciate you, Calvin, for joining us on this episode and

Sir Daniel: 00:34:54

kind of enlightening us as to what happens because again, in all of our

Sir Daniel: 00:34:58

discussions and all of our discovery.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:01

Capitalism is really what's at work here.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:04

You have artistry and you have capitalism, and therein the

Sir Daniel: 00:35:08

two shall meet or not meet.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:10

You know, artistry and capitalism tends to win out over everything.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:15

Cash rules, everything.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:16

Around us, basically around.

Sir Daniel: 00:35:18

And so before we wrap up, Calvin, do you have any final words or please let

Sir Daniel: 00:35:24

our audience know about your channel and how they can find you so that

Sir Daniel: 00:35:29

they can be in tune for your next deep dive conversations around the

Sir Daniel: 00:35:33

early two thousands as you alluded to.

Jay Ray: 00:35:36

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:35:36

And also real quick, Calvin too, you have, you got, you released two

Jay Ray: 00:35:40

records recently, so, uh, before tomorrow and after yesterday.

Jay Ray: 00:35:44

Definitely let our folks know about your music too, where they can tune into you.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:48

Yeah, look.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:49

After that I spent 30 minutes whacking all these artists.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:51

Now I gotta promote my stuff.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:53

Yeah, check me out y'all.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:54

They about this big old hater on here.

Calvin Michaels: 00:35:57

But, um, I was also gonna say too, to your point with the capitalism, that

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:01

was the one part I forgot to add in with K-Pop is that a lot of the acts

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:05

that we see commercially, they've been in these almost k-pop bootcamps

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:08

since they were young teenagers where it, it is pretty much for years.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:12

They, they go away and they go into these extensive dance

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:16

courses, these extensive singing.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:21

Trainings and everything else like that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:24

Uh, I only made that face 'cause by the time I hear them, everything

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:26

is going through so much EQ and never, you don't know what their

Jay Ray: 00:36:29

You don't know

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:30

but um, yeah, there's no distinction.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:31

But yeah, they, they spend

Sir Daniel: 00:36:33

too.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:34

These crazy contracts, they don't really make a lot of money.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:37

It's making everybody else money.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:39

And so, um, yeah, they, they do all that and it's, it's centered, again,

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:43

around the conversation of branding and commercialism, making you the

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:46

most perfect polished act that can be presented globally when it's

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:49

time for you to make your arrival.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:51

So there's that.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:52

But um, yeah, as far as, um.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:55

I forgot where I was going with this.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:56

Oh, my stuff.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:57

Yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:57

You can check out my website, Calvin michaels.com.

Calvin Michaels: 00:36:59

That has everything, everything from my music to my podcast, YouTube channel.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:04

I have a book club.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:05

Um, whatever's happening with my film projects, uh, as far as my

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:08

music, uh, I released my third and my fourth album a few months

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:12

back, which again, before tomorrow.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:13

After yesterday.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:15

It was supposed to be one album, but I realized the songs weren't

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:17

complimenting, and now I was like, these belong on two separate projects.

Jay Ray: 00:37:20

Yeah, because one is like the slow, like more of the the love

Jay Ray: 00:37:23

slow jam, and one is the uptempo.

Jay Ray: 00:37:24

Yeah,

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:25

Other one and yeah, you wanna go spin in your head.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:26

That's the other one.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:27

So, uh, yeah.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:29

And yeah, all my stuff is self-produced and, you know, I sit right in my

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:32

living room, pissed off my neighbors cranking all night, all night, all day.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:34

They got, you gotta hear, you make a few attempts for certain notes that you're

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:38

trying to see if you still have or not.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:40

Um, and so yeah, all of that's there.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:43

Um, I also, my end goal is more so to make music for other artists.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:47

I like.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:47

Making my own, but I really would like to start pushing in that direction and

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:51

getting placements with other artists.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:52

So that's kind of my bailiwick.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:54

And so yeah, the albums are out.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:55

I also have two other albums, symphonic Euphoria and the Hardcover.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:58

Um, one's from 2017.

Calvin Michaels: 00:37:59

One's from 2019.

Calvin Michaels: 00:38:00

I took like a five year break before I came back out musically.

Calvin Michaels: 00:38:03

So, um, yeah, so just check it out if you're into it, if you're not.

Calvin Michaels: 00:38:07

Okay.

Jay Ray: 00:38:08

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: 00:38:09

Well, there's so many entry points and thank you so much.

Jay Ray: 00:38:12

Once again, I want to echo everything.

Jay Ray: 00:38:13

Uh, sir Daniel said like, you're definitely one of those folks.

Jay Ray: 00:38:17

True multihyphenate, right?

Jay Ray: 00:38:19

Like there are so many entry points where folks can just grab you If they

Jay Ray: 00:38:22

want the commentary, which y'all should check out, definitely go check out.

Jay Ray: 00:38:25

Calvin's YouTube channel, you get a lot.

Jay Ray: 00:38:27

So you get the music, but you also get the commentary.

Jay Ray: 00:38:30

But then there's all these other things.

Jay Ray: 00:38:31

Like I said, I had the opportunity to listen to the podcast.

Jay Ray: 00:38:33

So you get like the storytelling, the comedy, um, there's of course

Jay Ray: 00:38:37

the music, all of these pieces.

Jay Ray: 00:38:38

So you give the folks, there's a way.

Jay Ray: 00:38:41

For folks to engage with.

Jay Ray: 00:38:44

Calvin Michaels the brand, and you see this knowledge that Calvin is dropping.

Jay Ray: 00:38:49

So just thank you so much for

Calvin Michaels: 00:38:51

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Jay Ray: 00:38:52

You're very, very welcome.

Jay Ray: 00:38:54

And so for all of you that are tuning in, thank you all so much

Jay Ray: 00:38:57

for tuning into this episode.

Jay Ray: 00:38:58

If you can see our faces and hear our voices subscribe wherever you are.

Jay Ray: 00:39:02

Make sure that you go over to Calvin Michaels and subscribe

Jay Ray: 00:39:05

to Calvin Michaels as well.

Jay Ray: 00:39:07

You can visit the Queue Points website@Queue Points.com or you can

Jay Ray: 00:39:09

see the archive of all of our episodes.

Jay Ray: 00:39:12

Uh, you can also visit our, uh, magazine Queue Points mag where you

Jay Ray: 00:39:15

can check out some additional content, um, that supplements some of the shows

Jay Ray: 00:39:19

or, uh, compliment some of the shows.

Jay Ray: 00:39:21

So definitely check that out and definitely shop our store

Jay Ray: 00:39:24

too@store.Queue Points.com.

Jay Ray: 00:39:26

We appreciate y'all, we love y'all.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:29

Absolutely another one.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:31

Jay Ray, what do I always say at the end of every episode in

Sir Daniel: 00:39:34

this life, you have a choice.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:35

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:38

I'm DJ Serani.

Jay Ray: 00:39:40

My name is Jay Ray, y'all.

Jay Ray: 00:39:41

That's Calvin Michaels

Sir Daniel: 00:39:43

And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping

Sir Daniel: 00:39:46

the needle on black music history.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:49

We'll see you on the next go round.

Sir Daniel: 00:39:50

Peace.

Jay Ray: 00:39:51

Peace y'all.