One important hallmark of mental health and emotional development is the ability to exist in the gray. In this Emotional Push-Up, Dr. Emily is joined by author and illustrator, Jordan Sondler, to discuss why we tend to label things as right or wrong, good or bad, black or white, when the truths of life almost always fall somewhere in between.

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Ready to break an emotional sweat? Welcome to Emotionally Fit with me, Dr. Emily Anhalt. As a therapist, I know that staying mentally healthy takes work and repetition. That's why I'll share emotional pushups, short actionable exercises, to help you strengthen your mental fitness. From improving your friendships to managing stress, let's flex those feels and do some reps together. Hey there, fit fans. I am here today with the incredible Jordan Sondler, illustrator, professor and mental health advocate. If you don't follow her on Instagram yet, I highly recommend that you do that. That info will be in the show notes. Jordan, thank you so much for being here today.

Oh my God. Thank you for having me. It's so nice to see your face, hear your voice.

Oh, the feeling is so mutual. So Jordan, recently I've been reflecting on the things that therapy is helpful with that people don't think to ask for. People come to therapy hoping for support with all kinds of things, anxiety, and feelings of depression, burnout, relationship issues, self-esteem struggles, et cetera, all kinds of things and therapy can help with these things. But therapy also helps with things that people don't think to ask for, things like communicating your needs, identifying your emotions, setting boundaries, learning to feel safe with your vulnerable parts. And one of the most profound things that therapy helps with that people rarely come to therapy asking for is black or white thinking. Black or white thinking said in a better way is a tendency to think in extremes. And one really important hallmark of mental health and emotional development is the ability to kind of exist in the gray.

And this is really tough for everyone. Black and white thinking is so much more straightforward and comfortable, but the truths of life almost always live somewhere in the middle. So I know for me, one version of this is all or nothing thinking. So for example, if I'm trying to eat healthier and I end up eating something unhealthy one day, rather than saying, "Okay, I'll try to make healthier choices tomorrow," I'll often say, "All right, that's all gone to hell. I might as well just eat whatever I want now." And I'm also this way with keeping my apartment clean. It's either the cleanest space you've ever seen or it's a complete and utter mess. So Jordan, I'm curious. Do you find yourself falling prey to this kind of thinking?

Yeah. I'm such a binary thinker and I've spent a lot of time in therapy unpacking that. It took a while for me to make this shift. I'm thinking of it as a spectrum of being on one end like the way a lot of things that I work on in therapy, or I try to work out in my head, I see visually. Are you surprised I'm an artist?

That makes sense.

I see where I was the day that my therapist said to me, "Oh yeah, you're a black and white thinker. You think this way or that way a lot of times and there's so much in the middle and you're missing that." At first, for years it was really frustrating. And now I'm finally in the space. I've been in the space for a while where I'm actually seeing that I can sit in the uncomfortable and accept maybe it's not perfect, maybe it's not what I saw as being done or being great, but I'm landing somewhere and I'm finally feeling comfortable there. But it's taken a lot, a lot, a lot.

I'm so glad that you said that because it is a really hard thing to change. I think it takes years because it's easier to move through the world seeing things as all or nothing as black or white. It makes the world feel a little more logical in a space where it's not.

Yeah.

And so I really appreciate the reminder that this takes time. It takes practice. And you're definitely not alone. I think this was a big topic of my own therapy for many years. And still I have to remind myself it's just now I'll notice it. Now I'll say, "Oh, there I go again. I'm doing that all or nothing thing. Maybe I can take a step toward the gray."

So that leads really nicely into our pushup today, which is all about practicing moving toward the gray. So Jordan, step one of this pushup is to reflect on one place in your life where you maybe have been using this kind of extreme thinking a little bit. Maybe it's an all or nothing commitment to a good habit. Maybe it's a tendency to see people is all good or all bad. Perfectionism is a great example of this type of thinking. Or even something like telling your partner that they always or never do things. So for those listening in, go ahead and press pause while you think of your example or listen on to hear what Jordan shares.

So Jordan, what's one place in your life that you sometimes use this kind of extreme thinking.

I love that you didn't give me any preface into this. This is going to be the conversation. But the thing about my black and white thinking is that once my therapist put words to it, I realized it's something I do everywhere in my life, everywhere. So this is actually fun for me because I'm like, "Wow, what are the big ones and what are the most relevant right now that I've really been more focused on?" One thing I think could be relatable to some folks would be dating. So I'm going to talk about dating.

Yes, please. Tell me more.

So I've been single for five and a half years. And during that time, well, at first I was like I'm either not dating or I am dating. And as a person who loves to love and as a very sexual person, I would say it's been really hard for me because I've been working so much on myself and prioritized working on myself during that time. And I would get really frustrated up until recently really, feeling like damn, I'm not doing anything to be meeting people.

Like working on yourself doesn't count?

Or like I can't do it. I can't do it while I'm working on myself. Or I really need to take that time off because I was going 150% with the dating when I was doing the dating. It was compulsive. It was all the time, really heavy. I mean, as years went on, I developed a much healthier relationship to dating and really it sunk in, it sinks in a little more each day, that so much of it is out of my control. But it took a really long time to accept that. So I would just either turn it on and sometimes go on multiple dates in a day. That's embarrassing to say.

I don't know what it says about me that I'm like, cool. Get it.

Yeah. But then it really is pretty dark because I just think about how exhausted it becomes a full-time job. And then you're like, wait, I have all other parts of my life and they're all suffering because I'm pouring everything into dating. And then I would have to turn it off. It was like feeding into an addiction. It was just one of those things where I was like, I need to win. I need to win at this. If I'm not, then I'm not dating. I'm not doing anything.

That's a really good example. And do you see this still showing up in your life a little bit?

I have gotten into such a great place with it. It's still something I think about a lot. There are times that I'll start landing somewhere not in the middle and be like, wait, okay, I got to remind myself how good it feels to be in the middle to not feel totally turned off. I get blinders on just not being concerned about dating or letting it wash over me and consume me in its entirety.

This is a great example. Thank you for sharing this. So then step two of this pushup is to identify what it would look like, with your example, to take a few steps toward the gray. So for example with my cleanliness, maybe I practice tidying my space lightly rather than waiting until it's so bad that I can barely stand it and then doing an insane top to bottom clean. Or perfectionists out there, maybe one step toward the gray is doing something you know you won't be able to do perfectly. Maybe you even submit a report with a little typo. So listeners go ahead and pause while you figure out what your small step might be. And Jordan, I'm curious, in your example, what does one small step toward the gray look like in the world of dating?

Yeah, for me it was setting parameters. I don't want to say I was being more calculated about it, but I really was being more intentional, so kind of setting boundaries with myself around it. And over the years I've added more layers to it. It's really helped, but it really was small steps at first, deciding I only go on dates on the weekends.

Nice.

That would be one.

I really like the suggestion that a step toward the gray can be parameters or boundaries that you can be intentional about figuring out how do I not let myself go past the sort of middle 50% of the spectrum in one way or another? So I love the idea of only dating on weekends. Were there any other little parameters that you put into place that helped you exist more in the gray there?

Yeah. Well, I think I would say not going to be on my app all day. If I can get a message, I'm not going to answer it during the day if I see get a message, or I'm going to turn my notifications off.

Nice.

Yeah. And I would just add things from there. And then I felt like I started to be pickier, too. Like I started thinking about, "Oh, what type of person am I actually really interested in?" versus giving every person who's interested in me a chance.

Yeah. You could be discerning because you're not going on 14 dates, so you want to be more thoughtful about which dates you do go on.

Absolutely. I think something that I should say, I was in a relationship for seven years, which we talk about in our other episode. And I think breaking up when we did and that space in my life, my friends were all turning to marriage and kids, and I was single and it felt like so much pressure to figure out what's next. So I think that's really what had me feeling so frantic about the dating for a long time, feeling like I'm behind, I can't catch up to everyone else.

That's so thoughtful. It really speaks to how often this extreme thinking comes in response to trying to deal with a really uncomfortable thing and running back and forth between the two directions trying to find some balance.

Totally. And when I try to run at full speed towards something or stop doing something, I've recognized now that it's because I want to feel in control. I want to give myself some feeling of control.

Man, I can tell you've been in therapy for a long time. That is so thoughtful and self-aware, and you're so right. We try to get control back with these factors. And so, I actually think that beautifully leads to our final step of the pushup, which is to reflect on how it feels to take that step toward the gray. So for example, I practiced this pushup earlier by lightly tidying and then sitting with the feeling. And I know for me it felt unsatisfying. It felt uncomfortable. It felt like it wasn't enough, that it didn't count, that it was a waste of my time. And rather than dealing with that feeling by doing the full clean or letting things get completely messy again, I tried to just sit in the discomfort of it, just knowing, okay, this feels uncomfortable now, but this is like a muscle, and if I keep practicing, it will start to feel more normal. So Jordan for you, how has it felt when you do put in those parameters, when you do keep yourself from trying to grasp control by running for the extremes?

So now I really try to recognize what it's freeing space up for. I used to have to take that extra energy that I would have, that extra time, and then channel it into something else. And that worked for a moment as a coping mechanism. But then my therapist after a while was like, "Okay, well you need to sit and feel and think about how this is making you feel and just recognize the work that you're doing and how you're feeling about that." And I'm very comfortable in sitting in silence with myself now. And that's something when we recorded our podcast originally, I was definitely not there. And I would say lots of time alone during the pandemic has helped.

Yeah. I feel similarly I've enjoyed my own company in a new way because of having to. So I identify with that a lot. Well, that's it, that's the pushup. I think by practicing taking steps toward the gray, we create a more realistic perspective on the world. So Jordan, I just want to say thank you so much for flexing your feels and breaking an emotional sweat with me today. And for those who are excited to hear more from Jordan, keep an eye out for our taboo Tuesday episode where we'll talk about mental health advocacy, and relationships, and the power of therapy. So Jordan, thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you. This was wonderful.

Well, the feeling is mutual. Take care.

Thanks for listening to Emotionally Fit, hosted by me, Dr. Emily Anhalt. Did you do today's pushup alongside me and my guest? Tweet your experience with the hashtag #emotionallyfit and follow me at @DrEmilyAnhalt. Please rate, review, follow, and share the show wherever you listen to podcasts. This podcast is produced by Coa, your gym for mental health, where you can take live, therapist led classes online. From group sessions to therapist matchmaking, Coa will help you build your emotional fitness routine. Head to joincoa.com, that's join C-O-A dot come, to learn more, and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @joincoa. From StudioPod Media in San Francisco, our producer is Katie Sunku Wood. Music is by Milano. Special thanks to the entire Coa crew.