Season 25, Episode 92 - Shaun Boyce, Bobby Schindler

In this episode of the GoTennis! Podcast, Shaun and Bobby talk to RSPA CEO, Brian Dillman.

Full YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/iw5cWyH6r_4

King of Tennis Answer: https://youtu.be/Fhv2XKrF9Ys

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• Shaun Boyce, RSPA: shaun@americanracketsportsassociation.com | https://americanracketsportsassociation.com/
• Bobby Schindler, RSPA: schindlerb@comcast.net | https://letsgotennis.com/windermere
• Geovanna Boyce: geovy@regeovinate.com | https://regeovinate.com/
• GoTennis Website: https://letsgotennis.com/

RSPA World Racquets Conference

September 21-25, 2025, at the Outrigger Kona Resort & Spa in beautiful Kona, Hawaii

https://rspa.net/rspa-world-racquets-conference-2025/

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandillman/

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- Hey, hey, this is Shaun with the GoTennis! Podcast,

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And now let's get into our recent conversation

with Brian Dillman.

Brian is the CEO of the RSPA.

We talk about the rebrand from USPTA to RSPA,

the industry evolution and opportunities available.

And of course, the upcoming World Rackets Conference

in Hawaii.

Have a listen and let us know what you think.

(upbeat music)

- Who are you and why do we care?

- Well, my name's Brian Dillman.

I am, let's see, who am I?

I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm a core,

I'm a passionate tennis player first and foremost.

I've been in the tennis industry for a long, long time

and I absolutely love it.

The evolution into racket sports for all of us

and what we do, I've had a long history

in playing multiple racket sports,

which led me to the opportunity

and who I am commercially or from a professional side,

is the CEO of the Rackets Sports Professionals Association.

And we're the largest certifying continuing education

and professional development,

trade association for Rackets Sports Professionals.

Been around for about 100 years and I just,

I love this industry, but I start my first job

right out of college, like many, many of us,

was teaching tennis and I had a great mentor

and she showed me the way and the way was

to get certified with the USPTA at the time.

All the peers around me, all the pros that I looked up to

were all certified, they were all super professional,

they had great jobs, they had great careers,

they were so interesting and curious.

And that was the only thing that was the requirement was

to be like them, you had to be part of the USPTA.

So I had an opportunity to join this association

about 19, 20 months ago.

So the other reason you might care is because, you know,

are me personally, my mission is to make this

one of the greatest jobs and careers you could ever have.

And for those of us in the industry,

who've been in the industry for years,

it is an amazingly rewarding career.

It is much bigger than teaching tennis,

it's much bigger than running a facility,

it's really changing people's lives

and the impact that coaches and professionals have on people.

Is pretty monumental and I don't think we can ever

talk enough about that.

- So Bobby, you want to go first as to why you chose USPTA

'cause I know I've got my story and I've told it a few times.

- I mean, I tell it all the time, it's funny

'cause I was not thinking it was ever going to be a career.

I just got out of grad school,

I was still kicking around some things.

I was living with somebody we've had on the podcast

before who's now the head tennis coach at Princeton,

Billy Payne, and he got me playing tennis again.

- Just so I'm last week at the ITA conference.

He just got one big award.

Oh, that's really cool.

- And Ty, well, he is the reason I'm in this business.

So Billy, like I said, you can hear a point very often

and say, he is the reason.

If I don't meet Billy Payne, my career probably goes

at completely different paths.

But he got me playing again, got me my first job

and it was Atlanta in the 90s and it had a very good time.

And he encouraged me to get certified

and showed me the ropes, made the introductions,

which made it easier 'cause I'd been out of the game for a while.

So I did ride on his coach else through Billy Payne.

I met Dennis Ford who Billy was working for

at a club down here who had been brought down here

through Ralston and Gorman to run onto their academies

back in the day in the early 90s.

So by just meeting two people,

I was very well positioned into the industry right away.

So I considered myself very fortunate.

And like he said, they were USPTA.

The old John Hannah story where John ran an ad

saying why are you in the GPTA

and put all the GPTA members names on it?

And my name was an audit.

My members, the country club I was working

and I came back and said why?

I said why not certified yet.

And within a month, I think I was getting certified

and that was the big joke.

Of course, now I was certified.

So it's so much more knowledgeable.

But it was just, it was the next step.

And back then it was a big deal about,

hey, get into the industry.

See whether or not you feel like you're gonna stay in it

and then take the next step and that's my path.

- I love it.

And Brian, it's not like you know Billy Payne.

- I just got to say hello to him while we were in New York

this past weekend at the ITA banquet.

And yeah, he was honored as a coach of the year

and just what an impressive record and history

and commitment to the industry.

I mean, it's very, very impressive.

- Yeah, Billy's great.

- I always felt that he was together

and I started, I think back then, Georgia State

was a quarter system.

So I started a quarter before him

and we were in a class together and all of a sudden

I see this big guy coming closer to me

like he wanted to get to know me a little bit more.

And that was it.

I always felt like as soon as I met him,

I said this is somebody I'm gonna know for the rest of my life.

- That's really cool.

- And we bonded over the Dallas Cowboys

and you know went from there.

- Yep.

But we talked Brian about seminal moments often

where we talk about how did you get into something?

Why do you care?

Like I like Andy Roddick told his story on his podcast

about how he got you in at a professional event.

It's like I wanna be that, that's really cool.

And in the business of tennis and racquet sports,

we often have that moment,

but we also have more of where I was,

which was I don't really wanna do this,

but I can until I find something else.

And I still haven't found anything else that I love

as much as being part of this type of industry.

But Bobby and I were certified on the same day

in the same class.

Who was the instructor?

- Tom Douglas.

- Douglas, right?

- Oh, Tom Douglas.

- Oh my gosh, a legend.

The legend Tom Douglas.

At Atlanta Country Club, where Cam Nandriano is now.

So yeah, Bobby and I have literally exactly

the same number of days coming up on 25 years,

both of us in the RSPA.

But it was an interesting conversation

because we talk about coaching a lot in the industry.

We talk about certifications.

And obviously the big $400 million elephant in the room

as USDA gets into it now.

Where then it was, okay, well where do you wanna go?

There's always a career path of,

okay, would you like to go with this group

or with this other group?

You have these options.

Now there's a third option in there.

And Brian, as far as I can tell,

you've done a really good job with the RSPA recently

of saying, okay, we're pretty sure this is coming.

And what are we gonna do?

What are we gonna be?

You completely helped rebrand the whole organization

with some response that was good and bad here and there.

We got a few phone calls.

I had a few people.

Y'all let that make it think it was a terrible idea.

But how is that been?

It's been a while to be able to say,

we're now RSPA and we're now more than we were before,

but we're not losing what we had before.

You know, I think the way we positioned it

and this started, the process started,

easily two years before I got here,

is the board and the national and executive committee.

We're already having discussions about this.

But the irony is, I made a presentation

when I went to get the job and in that presentation

was also the suggestion of a rebrand.

I just think and it was looking really

from the facility standpoint and where the market is going.

I mean, you had, you know, Wilson was not Wilson tennis.

It was Wilson Racket Sports, head racket sports.

It was racket sports centers.

It was, so the entire industry, not that 100% is there,

but many, many people are now directors of rackets

and head rackets professionals and things like that.

But it ultimately came down to what does the future look like?

And we positioned this as tennis plus more.

And, you know, when you start, you know,

98 years as an association where tennis was

and still is the main part of what we do,

and it's where most of us came from,

but it would be silly for us to put our heads in the sand

and say, you know, the industry's evolving around us,

but let's just stay, you know, let's just stay right here.

And it doesn't make any sense commercially,

but it also, from a career standpoint,

it doesn't make any sense for you to just stay in that one lane.

Here's what's going to happen in the very short future

if it's not happening already.

People who entered racket sports through pickleball

or Padel or platform or squash or something else

other than tennis are going to become directors of racket sports.

And it's, that is reality.

The reality is there are new paths into these jobs

and these careers.

So you can, you can, as a tennis purist,

you can be a purist.

Awesome.

I love it.

Is that my preference to play on a regular basis?

Yeah, I play four times a week.

But I also understand that the industry

and the commercial opportunities are now in more racket sports.

There's over 70, 75% of facilities have more than one racket sport.

So our position on this is tennis plus.

It's tennis plus pickle, tennis plus Padel.

It's also a bigger investment into professional development.

And I think that's really honestly,

what people care about are jobs,

either keeping theirs, getting a new one,

getting a better one or hiring somebody.

At the end of the day, that's the personal part, right?

That's what I truly care about.

My mission personally and even in our associations

is to make sure that you have every tool you need

to be successful in either of those four areas.

Can we help you get a better job?

Can we help you do great at the job you have?

Can you get promoted?

Can you find great people through your network?

And once you, the minute you're looking for something new,

who do I reach out to in our network that is,

that is somebody that's going to help me?

You know, we had Dave Porter on a couple weeks ago

on a webinar and when he got into the industry,

he said, I used to just call Jack Roppel, Jim Lair,

Vic Brayden, and they'd pick up the phone and talk to me.

Anytime I called, he said, I knew because I was a member,

they would respect me and I was really lucky

and I appreciated it.

But that's the nature of our association.

It's that network.

And I say often that your network is your net worth.

And I don't think that can go understated as well

in this industry too.

So that's really our position on it.

And yeah, there's going to be competitors.

And I think you also have to position yourself.

Where are you in this ecosystem?

You know, I think when you're a $400 million gorilla,

you're probably more of a volume entity like a McDonald's

and we're more like a fine dining restaurant in that regard.

We talked about that recently and I was on a conversation.

I was on maybe Marcus Ratchie, we were talking to,

and it was the conversation based on, okay,

everybody as you say now has what, 75% ish,

more than just tennis.

And I looked at Marcus and said,

you don't have your job right now if you were just tennis.

So there still is the requirement that you need to be more

and the new players in this world are just tennis

and kind of stuck with it.

And let's look at it, do it a really big rebrand.

So to be able to come in and say, I am certified,

like I am certified personally, also pickleball.

I wanted it next to my name.

I don't teach any pickleball right now.

It's just, but I am capable.

I understand it.

I understand the sport.

I have the, I have the certificate to prove it.

Where some people aren't going to care.

And that's fine.

But that's one of the reasons I think Bobby,

you'd agree that we chose RSPA for this concept

that it is, it's more than just tennis and coaching

and helping us be better coaches.

It's helping us be better employees

as well as employers.

Bobby, you agree with that?

Well, I mean, that was part of the process

when, you know, 30 years ago, when I started on this path.

And that's one of the things I love to tell you know,

I hope you delve into more is how do we get people

to understand that and you made it a great point, Brian.

No matter how big the organization I always left

and I'm laughing just listening, you know,

your farm were animated, the John Embry, you know,

and but John was a great guy.

And whenever I called John, he picked up the phone.

And I was always amazed.

I was like, great, what John, he's picking up the phone

and talking to me, you know, and like,

oh, hey Bobby, you know what you're doing today.

So, you know, that's a great fit.

Especially when you're talking about 15,000 to 20,000 members

and the CEO of your company, when you call, picks up the phone.

And yeah, I got two minutes, what do you need?

What can I talk to?

And you know, how do we instill that?

Because I know everybody talks about the younger people

to get them in the door to realize what they're,

what the commitment they're making

and why they want to make that commitment

because it's going to take care of them

for the rest of their life.

And you're probably going to enjoy your life in doing so.

What's interesting I think is, you know,

we're all sales people at some level.

And you've got to think about who the sales process involves

when you talk about the younger people

and it involves the parents.

And so one of the thing about having multiple ragged sports,

it truly doubles the market size

and the market potential of our industry

goes from like three billion to six billion

when you add pickle and paddle and squash

and platform on top of tennis.

From a merchandising standpoint, from a retail standpoint,

from a job, I mean, so all of that stuff doubles.

And you also now are forcing employers

to be more professional as well.

There's benefits, there's PTO, there's sick leave.

There's things like that.

I mean, I didn't get that when I first started teaching tennis.

I got a salary and I got a thank you, which is fine.

And you know, a little commission along the way.

But that's how we communicate to the younger generation

that not only is this a legit career

with huge upside and aspirations,

but it also is a legit career

from a employer-based standpoint, how they treat you.

And what you should expect from an employer as well.

And that's not just the private clubs,

the commercial clubs are like that.

The park districts are now like, they have to be.

So, you know, the laws and the regulations

have actually helped our industry.

And I think the next big thing that's gonna help our industry

is AI.

And I'm just throwing this out there is that, you know,

when people are thinking about their job,

losing jobs because of AI, you know,

what AI can't do is coach and teach.

So, on the court, in person, and that kind of stuff.

So, I think there's great stories to tell.

And we've got such great members who tell those stories,

you two included, but if you go to the history

of who are great members are,

they're the best recruiting tool.

And they are still the best examples

of why this industry is viable

and how we really do change people's lives.

And that's a scenario where we do affect a lot of people.

We're not going into our cubicle sending emails

that we've heard plenty of people say,

"Oh, I'll teach tennis till I get a real job."

And I just, thankfully, I don't hear it that much anymore.

- Correct.

- Because I think we've realized there's more to this.

We all have our computer at home

that we have to go back and figure out

the math of all the business that we've done

over the last time frame.

But now we actually go out and get to help people

and we get to be there for people.

We're more than just tennis coaches.

We're often sounding boards.

We are psychiatrists at some point on the court.

But it's more than just the tennis coach now.

And I think that's one of the things

where you and I, Brian, personally connected

when we spoke in May in South Carolina,

we were talking about the industry

is more than just a tennis coach now.

Where it used to be the tennis coach

and maybe a pro-shop person.

And that was pretty much it.

It's so much more now.

It's not just even the pickleball coaches.

It's everybody in the industry,

when I say anybody ancillary to the industry

and beyond even the reps.

We're on a call with a babelat rep

and say, okay, well, that guy's in this industry

more than we would think

'cause we used to think of it as just tennis coaches.

But now it's so much more.

So the question becomes,

it's kind of our second question where we say,

what makes you unique?

But did I just kind of explain one of the reasons

why the RSBA is unique in this fashion?

- Kind of.

I think what happened is, and I'll get back to your question,

but I think we've elevated this to hospitality.

And there are degrees and courses

and a full industry of hospitality,

including hotels and restaurants

and then private clubs

and all the things that surround around that.

And when you see successful people in our industry

on quarter off court, they ooze hospitality.

It's not service, it's actually bigger than that.

They ooze hospitality.

And so, again, whether you enter, however you enter this industry,

I mean, you meet people at, you know,

pro shop managers who manage unbelievable pro shops,

whether it's a golf or a tennis or whatever they are.

It's a full retail store with unbelievable hospitality.

They think of the details, they think of the consumer experience.

That is so important right now into who

and how people are gonna be successful in this.

And so I think that is kind of our mission is,

we've got to elevate this entire industry

with professional development and experiences

and education that can help everybody up their game.

I mean, there's a nice little shameless plug,

which I know we get to later,

but our whole theme of our conference in Hawaii

is about rebranding you, the member.

You know, we rebranded the association last year

for the because of the market and the need

and the future for the next 100 years.

But now we have to look at ourselves in the mirror

and say, am I the right person for this?

Have I gone through the process of making sure

that I've done everything I can to be the best for my career?

Am I present on social media?

Do I have tangible goals?

Do I have a network of people I can call?

Who can be like, who's, who am I responsible to?

I know I'm responsible to anybody in my family,

but morally I'm irresponsible to who, to you guys

and I'm gonna, you're gonna hold me accountable

to making sure I'm doing my continuing education

that I'm learning on a constant basis

that I'm really, you know, dialed into what I wanna do

for a career.

To me, that's the evolution of where we take

our professionals to actually really make

that word professional meaningful.

And how do you take that and I'll ask Bobby

'cause we've got a couple of friends in this area

where they're kinda USPTA forever

'cause they don't buy into the rebrand

and how do we encourage them?

'Cause they're also of an age that they don't think

they have a brand, right?

That's a millennial and younger kind of concept

is to have that personal brand.

Bobby, you and I have LLCs and we might have a logo

but is the personal brand really the thing for the,

I'll say, we'll just speak for the Atlanta market

of the local coaches that they're really willing

to potentially rebrand themselves.

- Well, we're trying, right?

We're trying to change that perception

and I think that's what it looks like.

When we started with GoTennis

and we started with the podcast,

that was, our goal was to elevate.

Our tagline was, you know, make tennis cool again.

We wanted to, and Billy Pate had this poster,

the John McEnter on the, on the floor.

- Absolutely.

Oh yeah, we all had that.

- We had that in our apartment.

So, you know, that was the,

when we started this thing,

that's what I envisioned is like,

all right, let's get back on the corner again.

And as you said, the good part, the fun part,

'cause, you know, I came out of a marketing background,

I was gonna go to grad school,

I was gonna run the Yankees, you know.

But there's so much, as I said,

I have my job, which is on the court,

and I have my hobby, which is the professional side

that I've been involved with, you know, the Atlanta event.

Courts.com, netcord.com, through Met Trevor Short.

So, I've access to the Neckert Cup

and the different things he does

and the yacht in New York City this week.

You know, so there's so many different people

involved that you can literally take it

where you want to go.

And to me, that's the exciting and really fun part of it.

I put 25 hours a week on the court,

and I put 25 hours a week on what, you know,

just the computer, and that makes for a very happy life.

You know, that's the break up I need.

But there are guys who can, and should,

if 40 hours or 50 hours a week, on court is their thing.

You have, we love the workers, you know,

heck, you always want a guy who's ready to go out there

and pound tennis balls for you for 40, 50 hours.

So I think there's so many different hats that are available.

And again, I'm a big, from the marketing background,

you know, the tech guy, the more people involved,

the more things we can come up with,

the more creative we can get, use Padel,

use Pickaball to buy things that tennis might not otherwise buy.

And I think this is the fascinating part,

because I spoke to Jared, and I'm going to put Cherico,

the DCI, you know, they just created that.

And what was exciting to me is what he told me

that half of their membership are now general managers of clubs.

And I tell everybody, my first experience at a country club

was the guy who was my boss telling me,

look, my idea of a successful tennis program

is I don't hear about it.

As long as you don't get any complaints,

you're doing a good job.

So, you know, we're today, now we have people in those positions,

and it might not be half,

but far more than we ever did,

or now in understanding the importance of understanding the tennis,

not that it's just an amenity to golf.

And, you know, we're, as we keep away to keep the lives happy.

If you look at the touch points that a professional,

a racquet's professional has at a country club,

versus a golf professional, it's probably X-10X,

because of the frequency.

The frequency may not be teaching lessons,

but I mean, you're on court playing league,

you see them on a weekend playing mixed doubles,

you see the husbands on a Thursday night,

you see the kids on Friday afternoon.

So, and I think, and frankly,

we should all thank Pickleball for this, by the way.

We should thank Pickleball for entering the market

to create the community that is bringing golfers across,

you know, across the fairways, into the racquet's areas,

to play with their families.

Same thing with Padell.

Padell is a great, you know, a great communicate community sport as well.

And so, that's why GM's are starting to pay attention,

is because their members are saying,

wait a second, this is kind of fun.

Now, now these are amenities are becoming requirements,

which means, again, you up that hospitality game,

and you make sure that those experiences for those facility,

whether the public private, whatever they are commercial,

they've got to be great,

because the competition for membership in these facilities

is even higher and higher and higher too.

So, all of these, like the whole conglomerate of this,

these things together have changed the dynamic of what we do,

which is put an amazing focus on racquet's sports right now.

You know, tennis is still growing, which is amazing,

but Pickleball fastest growing sport in America,

Padell is growing crazy worldwide.

I mean, so you've got, and then if you live in the Midwest Northeast,

and you're not teaching platform,

you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year

in revenue and income for professionals as well.

So, that, to me, is the reason why, at the end of the day,

but I'll get back to your, what makes you unique.

You know, one of the things I think,

my perspective on this whole industry is a little different.

I started teaching, but then I went to work on the manufacturer's side

and worked for Wilson's Sporting Goats for 15 years.

And then I got out of the industry,

and then I volunteered for the USDA Chicago for four or five years.

And so, you know, but I've always been a player.

My family has played.

We've always been connected to the sport,

and so I think that gives a little, a more unique perspective

as a career go.

Your career can take many different forms,

and I've rebranded myself probably six or seven times,

you know, depending on where you are,

who you're with, what your current role is.

And it's not easy.

And I think goes back to your earlier comment is,

why won't these diehards think about rebranding?

'Cause it's hard, and it's scary.

And there's risk there.

And the risk is, well, what if it doesn't work?

What if they don't like me?

What if I don't have any more income?

And that's a fear in anything we do that forces change.

- Change is hard, right?

And I'm trying to convince these guys and some girls,

but mostly guys, that change is easy.

You want to rebrand.

I will print you a shirt with a different logo on it.

Take off the shirt you have now, put this shirt on.

"Ero-Allah, you're ready to go.

You got to rebrand."

But I think a little bit is also, as we talk about rebranding,

there are some changes of how we speak,

or who we're dealing with, and what we're trying to do

is putting ourselves in the next situation

to be a better version of ourselves.

And that's where the hard part comes.

Putting on a, you know, taking off last year's hat

and putting on this year's hat is pretty easy.

The literal rebrand is easy.

But to be able to say, I'm gonna be a better version

of myself next year is hard when you've been doing

the same thing for thousands of years.

And you say, well, this has worked to this point.

Why should I bother, right?

Now, Brian, can I assume you're the genius

behind the higher standard H-I-R-E?

Is that your idea to change the--

- Not even close. - No?

- No, wait.

- No, that's why we have a crack marketing department.

- You got a whole department of business.

- Those brilliant people came up with that idea.

No, but it resonates, isn't it?

I mean, it makes so much sense that,

no, our team here is absolutely terrific

and they have their finger on the pulse.

And so they've, but I think that is one

of the strongest headlines of any industry

of anything that is so meaningful.

So that has a lot of legs and I'm really excited about that.

But no, there's no genius here.

It came from the team, which is great.

- I was gonna continue to credit you for that one.

- No, no, no, please don't.

- It's so leading to question three of four,

which is our shameless self promotion.

We know what you're working on,

but talk about what you're doing as Brian Dillman,

what RSBA is doing.

We've got the higher standard H-I-R-E

and we've got rebrand U, I think is what you're using

for the upcoming world rackets conference in Hawaii,

which I say upcoming, it's in a few weeks

from when we'll probably publish this.

Tell us about what's coming up.

So that's a big exciting.

I mean, having a conference in Hawaii

is really special anyway.

So we wanted to try some different things.

It's a different size facility.

So we're really making this,

we're trying to make this a personal journey.

And what better place to do that and have some reflection

and some find some peace than the beautiful island of Kona,

or the beautiful area of Kona.

So that is really important to us.

The other thing we're doing is we're dividing our,

let me take a quick step back.

I think another big differentiating factor

that you get when you meet people in our association,

not even versus what you meet when you get,

when you meet our people,

is their commitment to learning and continuous learning.

And I just did a video last week talking about the commitment

that our members have to continuing education.

And although we have mandatory in over three years,

you gotta have 15 credits,

we had one individual do 498 hours

of continuing education this past year.

- I thought I was killing it.

I had like 29 credits this year.

Oh, sorry.

- No, 29 times a month.

- I got my certificate too.

I only got 50.

- 50.

- Yeah, I was like, I was doing great,

but there's somebody else in the area.

- Yeah, like 172.

- Yeah, well, what is going on?

- But that's a great measurement stick to show the commitment.

And I think that is an untold story

that differentiates somebody that's doing this as a career

and as a career professional versus somebody that's a coach.

And as you think about that in terms of our commitment,

we're making a deeper commitment to that.

And so we're actually dividing our professional development

into three segments.

One is a leadership track,

one is a coaching track,

and then one is a business operations track.

And so going forward,

we've kind of been at everything to everybody.

You know, come in, get certified.

There's one track for that.

Get certified, move up to professional,

move up to elite, et cetera.

Well, not everybody's created the same.

And you, as you said, just second ago, Bobby,

you want to coach for 25 hours a week

and then do your business stuff.

Well, so you might choose some coaching

and some business operations,

and Sean, you may want to go down the leadership track.

And so going forward, starting at this conference,

and then into our next round of education

through other conferences and other webinars

and presentations, et cetera.

You're going to see those tracks really well defined.

So if you're more interested in one versus the other,

or all three, those options are going to be

made available for you.

We're also having some new topics

that the conference won,

is injury prevention with Dr. Greg Rose,

who's from Titleist Performance Institute and Racket Fit.

We're looking at a whole new introduction to wellness.

You know, the pros, a lot of the facilities.

What happens when you're a great director?

Like Matt Grayson's a great example at Ansela.

They just keep piling on.

Okay, now you're in charge of aquatics.

Okay, now you're in charge of fitness.

Now you're in charge of croquet and things like that.

So, but that one other connective tissue piece

is the wellness area.

And I think, and I think,

Bobbi, I can't remember, was you were Sean said earlier.

You know, we're meant to be experts in everything.

What do I wear?

What do I drink?

What do I eat?

What shoes do I wear?

What string tension do I have, et cetera?

So we're actually having Frank Gingrich come

do a really deep dive on the introduction to wellness.

And then we want to blow that out into a specialty course later

because I think there's a lot of opportunities in this space

to learn more about, again, more diversity, more learning.

And how does that apply to your next role?

Or the next time you interview for a job with a general manager

or getting a promotion or things like that.

So there's a lot of great stuff coming up with that.

And then, you know, we are just consistently trying

to innovate everything we do.

And again, we put ourselves in the member shoes

as much as we possibly can and think, what's in it for me?

And so when we think about new indoor sees and new partners

and new relationships and new coursework,

it really is all with a member in mind.

And Bobbi, you're gonna ask the question,

why, why, and why September?

'Cause I'm sure that that's a problem weren't you?

I did do a big drill this morning with several other RSPA pros

and that was what I said, do you have a question?

I'm gonna do a Bobbi podcast with Brian.

And they all said, why, why?

'Cause it's costly and be from a standpoint of where we are.

This is our busiest time of the year.

So getting away in September is extraordinarily so

as much as we'd all like to be in a way,

it ends up who can go with the Mad Grayson.

And this is the difference and I've enjoyed this,

the conversation I would say, I judge it by,

how many more conversations could come out of it?

And I think that's another huge change in my 30 years

is the fact that we now have teams,

that it used to be how much could you do

and could you find somebody else to help you?

And now we are developing teams,

which is great because now you can put people

where their strengths and weaknesses are.

Again, fun listening to say, you know,

just our familiarity with clients.

But I was at the country club, I know I've told this,

they would come to me and say, could you put out

our newsletter through your database

because they're used to speaking with you

on a more personal level.

So we get a far better response when you send out

the newsletter.

Did the CEO of the company I used to work for,

you know, I met him and everybody called him Mr.

and his last name, well, he came up to me and said,

you know, call me John.

And my boss would look at me cross-eyed.

I'm like, the CEO asked me to call him by his first name.

I'm calling him by his first name.

I would put him Mr. John, but it is.

It's just that familiarity of the tennis springs

and that could be pressure because we probably

know more about the people than the golf pro knows.

But that's, you know, if you're inclined

to be, want to be in the profession,

that's a blast on top of it leads to the business side.

That's how I met John Hannah.

That's how I met Trevor.

That's how I met Sam Holmesy,

who's the southeastern Cadillac marketing rep.

So we've put him in different positions.

It's how we almost landed the title sponsor back

for the senior tour back in the day.

It was one of our clients who we just started talking to

the different things we had going on.

And he said, wait a minute, I'm interested in this.

So, you know, if you're inclined to want to do it

just by sharing a little bit of yourself,

you can really learn a lot.

And that's the fun part about what we're talking about

is the team.

But yes, I guess my gripe is, I'd like it to be in my backyard

so I can go.

So the decisions are made by the executive committee.

This one was made about four years ago.

And at the time, it was in a--

it's still going to be an amazing conference.

We knew it was going to be a little smaller.

The good news is, next year, Dallas, so easy and now

quick, and it's going to be amazing.

And then the following year, which will be our 100th

anniversary, will be here in Orlando, Florida.

So book your flights and your tickets now, Disney, Universal,

and the RSPA 100 anniversary.

Brian told me, Bobby, recently, and it was something that just

kind of clicked as soon as he said it.

He said, a majority of our members are busy

from Memorial Data Labor Day.

Like, that's the busy season for the majority of the members.

We don't picture it that way here in Atlanta.

Is here in Atlanta, where all that matters,

the rest of the world doesn't matter.

Atlanta is king, and the rest of you are all wrong.

That's what you need to understand.

But we keep thinking, seriously, late September,

like that's--

It's been consistently those that week for the last 99 years.

100 years, exactly.

Exactly, as a matter of fact.

And yeah, there is no perfect--

we've thought about moving it.

I've seen documents that they've talked about moving it

for literally for the last 20 years.

And at the end of the day, you're never going to be perfect.

We do have a virtual conference that is available.

And actually, one of the things we're doing

is we're making it--

I mean, it's really inexpensive for first-year members,

which we do as well.

Like, if you're a first-year member,

you get to go to your divisional conference for free.

You have a really low price on that.

But there is a virtual conference package available

that we're actually going to get communication out

on that next week.

So you'll get to see the entire run of show, all the sessions,

and you'll get all the access to that, too.

So yeah, we understand.

And we love-- trust me, we'd love to have thousands and thousands.

And we're hoping for a really big number in Dallas.

We made it really convenient, really easy to get to in 26.

Yeah, and Dallas seems to be a place to be right now.

I know Bobby and I looked at each other and said,

wait a minute, three directors of tennis

from fancy country clubs in Dallas got together,

started a little thing called the DCA.

And those guys seem to be killing it.

And but Dallas is such a cool place

from a tennis perspective right now.

I mean, it's no Atlanta, don't get me wrong.

But--

Well, you didn't ask me where I grew up.

Really?

Dallas, Texas.

Oh, yeah.

Ripets, yeah.

So I remember that.

That's right.

My first job was at Canyon Creek Country Club,

which was in Richardson, Texas, which

was at the time a club court, but now invited.

So that's where I grew up playing.

And then that was my first job as well.

And then I worked at it, actually, ironically.

I worked at Benchery as well before I started at Wilson.

See, Benchery seems to be a place to go through,

because I keep here in that one.

Everybody I mean, he's like, well, is it Benchery for a while?

Really?

OK.

It's a heck of a place.

And Craig Bell obviously did a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I remember--

Open it to my school, Brian.

What year?

Yeah, this I find out how old you are to go that age.

Oh, 86.

86.

86.

OK.

So you--

I'm high in 50s.

Because I'm a TCU.

Oh, you broke up.

What are you?

There was probably a lot of the richest

and boys in my school.

TCU, Brian.

Hi, I'm John Dwayne.

I went to-- that's where I went my freshman year.

And then I transferred to Illinois.

Oh, well, so you were-- I was still there when you were a freshman.

Why did you help me that?

87?

I graduated 87 from TCU.

From TCU?

Oh, OK.

So you're a senior.

I was a freshman.

OK.

It's possible.

Very possible.

And that's where I met Fred.

He was for the first time, too, by the way.

Well, there's another ex one of us that--

it would be nice if he picked up our calls, which is Greg Hill,

the CEO of Nike now that was a TCU guy right when I was there.

And I'm like, come on.

How about a--

How about a guy in the town of Lundbrok?

Come on, brother.

Yeah, exactly.

Brian's like tall-cred right now.

Well, the good news--

well, the good news is our former Alinai coach Craig Tiley

and I got together at the US Open a couple of days

before yesterday and had a great chat

and talk about going on and do great things.

I mean, he started-- he started at Tyler Junior College.

You guys know that?

And then I like to say, because we were so bad at Illinois,

our coach got fired.

And then they replaced our coach and then Craig came in

and took it all over the place.

And so he's then obviously gone on to do great stuff

with tennis Australia.

Yeah, that's great.

Oh, Bobby hit with--

I want to know what other questions they wanted

to know today.

That's what I was going to say.

Let's let Bobby have one last.

The big one was they all looked at me and said,

Hawaii, OK, I understand.

And again, and as you said, here's the big difference.

We don't play tennis.

We play Alta.

So we try to change that perception every day a little bit.

It's much of a John.

I want to take care of John Hannah.

It's like John.

It's tennis first.

It's not Alta.

By the way, did you hear John's great news?

What's that?

John bought RSI.

He announced it on Monday.

He's buying it from the tennis channel

or bought it from the tennis channel.

And he's going to continue to run it,

and which I think is amazing news for the industry.

Obviously, great news for John, who's

been just an absolute rock star in our industry

for over 30 years, too.

And he and I met when I was at Wilson the very first time.

Here's the funny story.

Oh, this is actually quite good.

And yes, Emory, if you're listening, this is about you.

So John and I would go to all the USPTA conferences,

when I was at Wilson.

And we would always play early morning doubles.

And it was always John and I against Emory and insert player

here.

And we not only did we never lose.

I think the last time we played, we'd

be the one and one or something in such short order

that it was a lot of droopy faces.

And I think John and I might have had a late night

the night before, too.

But we've got a long history as well,

and had some great times with John.

And he's a great guy, again, another mentor where he's a Bobby.

We get paid to play tennis.

He's his nickname, I'm sure you know, Johnny Pro Am.

Because he's guys doing what he does.

He goes to all the pro-am, he's not working.

He's literally Johnny Pro Am.

And he's like, Bobby, we get paid to play tennis.

How bad can our life be?

All right, Bobby, no more for Brian.

Or should you keep grilling him?

No, I'm loving this.

He's probably got something to do today.

Probably business.

Our hard-earned-- Actually, I'm glad to have--

--planted tennis with my wife at 5.30, so that I'm good.

Good for you.

I like it.

Well, I want to make sure we get in our King of Tennis

question before we let you go, because these are always fun.

And I've had a great time over the years

asking this question.

And my favorite thing to try to do is to make it happen.

Say, somebody has this pie in the sky, crazy idea.

And they don't think it's possible.

Or if it's something in my control,

I love to be able to say, you know what?

Call you back in a few weeks.

I think we figured this out, because people

are willing to say, if I was King of Tennis,

I would make these changes.

Or I would do these things.

And Brian, whether it's the whole world,

professional tennis, whether it's the industry,

the coaching industry, kids, anything

you can think of, if you were King of Tennis,

is there anything you would do or change?

Absolutely.

No, in the truth of it, we've talked about this a lot

in this conversation.

Our industry is completely unregulated.

So half of people who call themselves coaches or professionals,

who knows who they are.

They don't have background checks.

They never been checked out.

And then the half that are certified

have to consider themselves or are seen equally

as the people that are unregulated.

So if I was King for a day, I would mandate

that this industry be regulated like any other trade,

like the legal profession, like the medical profession,

like the hairdressing profession, like anybody

where you have to be licensed, you have to be regulated,

you have to have continuing education.

There are, you know, this becomes potentially,

not a union, but this career then

has legitimacy for the long term.

So that would be number one.

And I would do that across the entire globe,

because in every country, there are different methods,

different means.

And I'm not saying we need to learn how to teach one way,

but having some standards, minimum standards,

is a way to regulate this industry that is not currently

being done right now.

We consider ourselves the chamber of commerce.

Because we are the only people as a nonprofit.

We are the only people that truly care about the growth

of the sport because the growth of the sport requires people

and people are what we do.

We do people.

And so as the chamber of commerce,

I would, if I was king for a day,

I would have had every one of our members help identify

the next member that replaces them, or two, or three, or four.

As our industry ages, we need to think about replacing.

And it doesn't have to be the younger generation.

We've met more people recently that are now

second, third career people who have had a 20-year career

in the global travel business who are now teaching

and coaching full-time and now directors of rackets.

One of our next incoming board members

was an engineer for 25 years.

Is now the director of rackets at one of the most premium

hoody snooty clubs in LA and is absolutely

infatuated in this industry.

So that's the second thing is we've all got to see our job

and our obligation to the industry is to replace ourselves

or double or triple or quadruple ourselves.

So that makes this a viable career.

And then the last thing is king.

I would absolutely do everything we can to support

and I would endow all college tennis for life.

How's that is king for the--

because 80% of college tennis players become our professionals.

Or say that a different way.

80% of professionals have played some sort of college tennis.

So if we don't have a pipeline of college tennis players

in college athletes, we don't have an industry going forward.

Well, there you have it.

We want to thank rejGeovinate.com for use of the studio

and signature tennis for their support.

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See you next time.

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