Vicky Ograin, RVT, VTS (Nutrition), MBA tackles a challenge every new veterinarian faces: how do you earn trust, build confidence, and collaborate effectively when the technicians around you have far more real-world experience than you do? Dr. Andy Roark and Vicky share practical advice for creating strong doctor-technician partnerships, giving and receiving feedback, and building a team culture that benefits patients, clients, and the entire veterinary team.

This episode is brought to you by Hill's Pet Nutrition!

Welcome, everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast.

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I am your host, Dr.

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Andy Roark I remember being a brand

new veterinarian and I got sent out

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to work with just one technician.

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It was me and one technician, and she

was much more experienced than me.

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She had seen a lot more in medicine

than I had She was very confident

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and self-assured, and I didn't,

I, it caused me a lot of anxiety.

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I wanted to a good job as a vet.

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I wanted to, I wanted

this person to trust me.

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I wanted to be a good partner and a

good veterinarian with this person.

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Nobody.

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Really tells you how to do that,

especially coming as a new graduate.

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How in the world do you come in as a

brand new graduate, someone new in the

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role, especially when you've got some

worries about your own clinical skills and

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you're learning a lot as you go and you

want the paraprofessionals to trust you.

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And guys, there's nothing more,

, important I, I think, to being a

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veterinarian than how you communicate

and how you communicate with the clients.

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Yes, obviously.

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but How you communicate with the

team , and your support staff

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and the people who are gonna be

helping you get through the day?

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And so, anyway, that was

the thing that I remember.

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caused me a lot of stress.

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I wanted to do a good job.

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I did not wanna be overbearing, but

also I wanted to feel like I was heard.

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I wanted to be trusted.

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And also I wanted to learn from

these people and guys, it's just,

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balancing all that is really hard.

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I've got for you today, a great

interview with Vicky Ograin who's a good

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friend of mine, and she's a, , just a

consummate educator and professional.

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And we talk about building

that relationship.

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We talk about collaboration with

the veterinarians, and then we flip

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it around on the other side too.

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And at one point I ask Vicky like,

let's say that you're a support staff.

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Let's say that you're a technician or

you're an assistant and you would like

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to have a more collaborative relationship

with the, with this, with the young

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veterinarian who's coming to the practice.

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How do you start to set the stage?

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To build the way of working that you want.

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Guys, this is a great episode.

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I think it's really, really valuable

for people early in their career.

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I think it's really valuable for

people who are established in their

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career, who will be working with,

early career doctors in the future.

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And so anyway, guys, I'm

really proud of this episode.

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Thanks to Hill's Pet Nutrition

for making it possible.

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ad-free Let's get into it.

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Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show.

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We're glad you're here.

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We want to help you in

your veterinary career.

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Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr.

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Andy Roark.

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Andy: Welcome to the podcast, Vicki Ogren.

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How are you, my friend?

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Vicky: I am good.

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How are you today?

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Andy: I am really good.

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It was funny, I was just reading some

veterinary news today and, you and I

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were talking about it a little bit before

and there's some really exciting news

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around, , declawing in cats in terms

of, some of the things that people were

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worried about if we stopped declawing.

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Cats do not seem like they have happened

in places where that has happened.

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And so anyway, all of that just to

sort of say, man, I think this is great

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news for our feline patients, and, I

love it when vet medicine gets better.

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I just, I, and I, I feel like that's

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Vicky: mom, I love that.

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Andy: Absolutely.

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Vicky: My girls are

armed, as I like to say.

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Andy: I love it.

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Alright, you, for those who

don't know, you've been on

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the podcast a number of times.

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You and I have been friends

for years and years.

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I always love our time together.

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You are such a neat person.

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You are.

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, first of all, you are, an RVT, you're

a registered credential technician.

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You are also a technician,

specialist in nutrition.

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You are, you have an MBA and You are

a scientific communications, , senior

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specialist at Hill's Pet Nutrition,

which I love because you are all about

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that communication, which is again,

absolutely a, a big thing for me.

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So I, I love talking about soft skills.

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I love about, uh, talking about being

effective in the clinic and you're just,

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you do all of those things and you're

just, you are on the road constantly.

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You are always teaching and growing

people, and it's just, anyway,

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I get a ton of working with you.

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Alright, so here's what

I want to do today.

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, I'm thinking about growing doctors today.

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I'm thinking about the things that I wish

that I knew when I was a brand new doctor.

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And so when I think about the things that

are most important to brand new doctors

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and things that, that I, I don't feel

like they necessarily get in vet schools.

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I'm thinking a lot about relationships

and working effectively with the

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paraprofessionals and the staff.

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I, I think that your ability to work

as part of a team, especially as a new

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doctor, makes a huge difference in how

effective you can be, how much you're

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gonna enjoy your job, like how successful

you're gonna be with your patients.

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I just think that is so.

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Big and when I started as a vet,

I went to work, in Washington

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DC and I went to a practice.

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I had about 30 doctors, all general

practice and just, and tons of support

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staff and they were phenomenal support

staff, but it was so intimidating for

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me because this, they did a great job of

investing back into their support staff.

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Boy, those.

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Men and women, they knew their business

and what they were doing, and I did not.

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I like, you know what I mean?

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I was a brand new, I had zero

experience as a doctor , and I

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just I remember wanting to work

with them, but also not wanting to.

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Come off as condescending

or irritate them.

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I wanted to get their help but not

seem demanding and also not seem

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like I didn't know what I was doing.

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I had a number of of these times that

ICE got really wrestled with that.

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, there was one time there was a satellite

practice and I went out there and I was,

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it was a one doctor practice , and they

gave me one, , technician to go with me.

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And she was a licensed technician and

she was much more senior than I was.

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And she was very brilliant and it was.

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Odd for me to be working

one-on-one with this person.

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And I'm the doctor and I was

held responsible for a lot of

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the things that happen, anything

from a medical standpoint.

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And my partner here who's

supposed to be supporting me is

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way more experienced than I was.

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And it was just, it was

a, it was an odd scenario.

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And so anyway, I wanted to bring

you on to talk today really about

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as a new veterinarian, , working

effectively in building trust

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with senior paraprofessionals.

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Vicky: Yeah, absolutely.

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And you know, the thing

to, to think about.

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We were all new grads once, so

I was that new grad technician.

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And I think, you know, once you've

been in this profession for a

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while, we need to remind, excuse me.

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We need to remember that because to me,

that helps me help the veterinarian,

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the new grad veterinarian, right?

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And so if I have empathy for that

person, I think the other thing that

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I've come to realize, having been

in this profession for some time.

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Is, you know, when I first came

out as a new grad, to your point, I

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didn't know exactly what I was doing.

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I saw some senior technicians who

just seemed to know everything about

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anesthesia and I was trying to figure it

all out and, trying to keep the animals

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alive and, and all the things, right?

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And what I realized is that.

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I was learning from them.

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now years later when I'm working

with a new grad, a veterinarian

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or, or even a technician, I need to

remember that and help them navigate

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as they are coming into the clinic.

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Because I think there also is some

standpoint from the vet techs that

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we have a veterinarian who's gone

through a lot more schooling than

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I have and has all the knowledge.

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But I think where we can really

partner is the getting the experience.

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So I had knowledge when I first came

out, but I didn't have the experience.

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Now I have the experience and the

knowledge, and I've seen a lot of cases.

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So when I see the schnauzer coming in, I'm

already thinking, okay, what did they eat?

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How's the pancreas right?

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Whereas a new grad vet probably isn't

at that point where they're thinking

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that way yet because they haven't

seen a hundred schnauzers that all

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seem to end up having pancreatitis.

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So then we start thinking, you see

a schnauzer, we wanna make sure

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their pancreas is in good shape.

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So I think that's one of the

things that we can really do is, is

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really remember that and help the

veterinarian to get that experience.

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And I think we should all feel

comfortable and I think the vet

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should as well to communicate.

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That's to me the biggest thing.

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So the veterinarian, new grad coming

in saying, I've spent all these years

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in school, I've got all this amazing

knowledge, but I know you as a senior

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technician and or as just say, as a

technician, right, as a technician,

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you've seen so much more than I have.

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So I really, really wanna rely on

you to help me to understand some of

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these cases that you see quite often

and, and you've got that experience.

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Andy: I love this.

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I, I wanna put a pin in this there

real quick 'cause I wanna come

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back to this, but I, I think what I

wanna do before I just, , dive into

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exactly, into like how to set this up.

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'cause you're already going

to the place that I love.

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, when you think about the relationships

that you have seen between new

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doctors who are just coming in,

they're fresh outta veterinary school.

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Support staff that have been really great.

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Vicki, what does success look like?

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Because I think a lot of us don't know.

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We say this is.

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This is the only relationship that I

know because it's the one that I have and

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I've never seen anything any different.

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I don't know that as a brand new

doctor, I would have known if

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my relationship with the support

staff , was quote unquote good.

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What does done look like here?

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What is success when we're onboarding?

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Vicky: Yeah, and I think, having the

conversation, so talking, getting to

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know them, taking 'em out for coffee,

lunch on a more personal basis, getting

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to know how they wanna work, right?

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So are they the type of person

who wants to be chatty or not?

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Do they want to, when you're in the room,

the veterinarian needs to communicate.

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I'd like you to hold the animal X way.

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The technician can then say, well, okay,

I understand that and I know that's what

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you did in vet school, but, what I have

found works really well for me is to

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hold them this way and then collaborate.

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So there isn't a, we do it

this way here mentality.

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I don't wanna say that

'cause we know there's that.

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. But to communicate and to say,

here's a, a way that it could be done

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and say, oh my gosh, that's great.

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Or the technician can say, oh

my gosh, you know, I've been

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outta school for a long time.

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I didn't know you could do it that way.

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Thank you for helping me.

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And so it becomes that collaboration.

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I think that's really, really important.

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Andy: how exactly do you get that started?

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I think it's makes.

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A ton of sense to say, well, you

know, we have to be collaborative.

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Again, I go back to that experience of

being the new person and maybe feeling

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a bit insecure, things like that.

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And what's interesting to me is how

many technicians have come up and

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said, I want to have this conversation.

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How do I talk to the doctor and say.

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What do you want from me?

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And, and how do you

want me to support you?

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And, can I tell you how I

would like you to support me?

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But they don't know how to

open that conversation up

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and it feels awkward to them.

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And so the, thing that I wanna say to the

doctors is, a lot of your support staff

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would really like to talk about this, but

it's scary for them to try to bring it up.

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And so.

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It's really kind of often, I don't

wanna say it's on the doctors.

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I do think it's easier for the

doctors to make this happen.

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Vicki, how do you open this,

this sort of, i I, I call it a

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ways of working conversation.

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It's really about sort of

understanding how are we gonna,

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how are we gonna dance together?

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How, how do you get that going?

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Vicky: And I think, here at Hill's

when, , and I've been with Hill's

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for quite a few years, 24 years.

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So I've, also, , been in this

environment for quite some time

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when we have a new employee come in.

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So someone I'm gonna be working with,

we have a meet and greet and so that

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might be set up by the veterinarian

or maybe even the office manager.

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And just make that part of the onboarding

so that there's more of a comfort level.

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So the technician knows when a new doctor

comes in, I'm gonna have a meet and greet.

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And I'll tell you, when we fir,

when I first started doing them

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with Hill's, , it was a little

intimidating 'cause I didn't know.

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But what I've come to realize is part of

the culture of our company, that we wanna

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immediately start getting to know each

other and they encourage us , to really,

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you know, get to know our, our new.

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So I like, we have a new teammate.

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On my team.

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And so it is kind of like, okay,

I've got a new person coming

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in, she's a veterinarian, and

how am I gonna work with her?

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What is her philosophy?

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And so we start out with a meet and greet.

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And so that's very casual.

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It could be done at the clinic, it could

be done locally, maybe at the clinic, have

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a room where they can go into, maybe it's

an exam room and they've got set time.

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So they're, no one's gonna interrupt them.

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So they're not saying, Hey, you know,

we gotta go do some blood draws.

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It's like, no, no, no.

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This is , the meet and greet.

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It's a half an hour,

an hour, whatever time.

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Obviously they can decide that

and then start that conversation.

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You know, where are you coming from?

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and I know that can be

intimidating on both sides.

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some people are shyer than others,

but, you know, conversation

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starters, where did you go to school?

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Where are you coming from?

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What is your family life like?

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And then so you get to know each other

and then start kind of talking about,

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okay, so you've been here for a while.

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How do you like to have, do

you want things written out?

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Do you, would you rather have

it written out and told to you?

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You know, is there a white board?

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However, which way the

clinic is working, right?

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And then starting to understand, so then

that gives the technician an opportunity.

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To start kind of like, oh, well I'm

part of the team and I'm helping them

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navigate getting to, to understand

our process, which is really what

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technicians are doing, right?

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You got a new person coming in,

we're helping them to figure

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out how the clinic works.

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But by doing that meet and greet,

in my mind, you're allowing

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them to be part of the process.

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So instead of a technician thinking that

they have to go to the vet and say, Hey.

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We don't do it this way here.

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You've already started that conversation.

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So the expectation is, oh, okay,

so now I know that the, I can

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rely on this tech to help me.

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So if I'm not sure how we do things

here, I feel comfortable to go to

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that person and say, Hey, , what

type of tubes do you want me to pull?

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Or, or whatever it is, right?

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Andy: I really like that groundwork.

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I don't think that happens a whole lot.

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I think there's very much this kind of

hop in here and we'll figure it out.

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And, I think it can be a little bit

awkward because people don't exactly

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know what, what questions to ask.

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You know, when you say what

do you want me to do?

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And I would say, well, in what

situation are we talking about?

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I, I think , my two favorite

questions , for working with anyone.

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This is ways of working.

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If, if it's a practice manager

statement, my two favorite questions

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are, Hey, imagine it's one year in

the future and you, and I'll have the.

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Best relationship ever.

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we just work so well together.

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What does that look like in your head?

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, what do I do?

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What do you do?

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how do we talk to each other?

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Let's talk about, you know, say we're

just seeing wellness appointments.

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, what is, when and when we are great.

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How do you imagine us doing things?

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And I really love that question.

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And then I like it so much because it's,

there's, it's no criticism of anything.

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It's just, you know,

think about the future.

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And then the flip side, which is also

equally important, and I think , people

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don't understand why I do this, but the

flip side is imagine it's a year from now

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and you really don't like working with me.

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Just imagine, like, imagine

that, we are not getting along

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as a technician and doctor.

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What am I doing?

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What is the thing that would make

you really not wanna work with me?

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What in my, in the imaginary

future, what would I be doing?

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And this also tells you about

what the person doesn't like.

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And so if people really don't like being

micromanaged, you'll find out about it.

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If they really, , if they're really

worried about something, they will tell

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you, oh, you, this thing is going on.

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you are leaving me in the

exam room and I can't get out.

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Because I'm really bad at ending

conversations and you just learn

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a lot about what they by them

telling you what they don't want.

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And so I really like that.

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It sort of goes to one of the

hearts of, of sort of the things

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that I wrestle with in, that.

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When you say, , imagine Vicki,

imagine you're my technician.

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and we're starting out together and

I go, I want us to be great together.

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The obvious question is, what

does great together mean?

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And it's contextual.

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It really, it depends on our practice, on

our culture, on what kind of medicine I

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wanna practice on, what kind of medicine

you wanna practice, what lights your

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fire and, and what, gets me, , excited

, as a doctor , , and it's navigating

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this so it's not a right answer of.

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This is what a doctor technician

relationship looks like.

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And so that one where you and I

co-design what success looks like,

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that's such a beautiful point on the

horizon that we can sail towards.

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And it doesn't take long.

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And it's a great icebreaker and it's

a wonderful thing to talk about over

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coffee and just to get to know people.

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And so anyway, I just really, I

really love that, Vicki, what are.

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What are the biggest pitfalls

that you see in paraprofessional

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veterinarian communication?

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Like where do, where does this go?

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Off the rails.

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Vicky: You know, and I, and I don't know

that the vets mean to do this, but I

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think sometimes if they're talking, so

to speak, like down to the staff, and

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I don't mean like we all know that the

veterinarians are highly educated and

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we're expecting you to be that person.

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But what I mean is when someone's

coming in and they're being very

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derogatory and demeaning what they

bring to the table, it's like, I

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could take that blood faster than you.

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It's like,

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Andy: Oh yeah.

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Oh, don't do that.

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Vicky: that's not your job.

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That to me will be like, oh, okay.

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You want my help, but now you're

critiquing how I do something or I

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didn't do it quick enough for you.

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And certainly there's ways to say that.

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Right.

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So, I noticed , you're seem to be a

little challenge with that particular dog.

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Is there someone else that

might be able to take over?

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. And I, and we all know that

there's gonna be that particular.

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But if you're saying like, if I can get

that blood in three seconds and you're

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saying, well, two seconds would've

been better, well that's just not fair.

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And you don't know what's going through

my head as the way I look at it, we

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are a team and I've always thought that

from the beginning and I've worked with

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some of the most amazing veterinarians,

and my boss is a vet, she's the

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most amazing vet I've ever worked in

my life, , and my team is amazing.

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And, but we communicate and I feel

comfortable enough because she

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actually calls me a colleague, which

I'd never had really had that before.

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but I'm a vet tech, but

no, you're my colleague.

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And so thinking that way, you are

a colleague and treated that way

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so that I feel comfortable enough

to jump in and say, well, well, I

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think there's a way we could do this.

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And they're like, well,

that's a great idea.

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It's a good idea, but not for this case.

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And so to be part of the treatment,

obviously we don't treat, we don't

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examine, we don't diagnose, we don't,

obviously we do not do surgery, but

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there's no reason why we can't be

part of the conversation and the plan,

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because ultimately the way I look at

it is the patient that's gonna benefit.

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Andy: Yes.

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Yeah, I, I love that you say that.

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I think that so many of these

problems go away if you have a

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team mentality from the beginning.

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I will tell you, and this is sort

of embarrassing, but, but one of

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the early experiences I had, so.

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Back at that practice, right?

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It was me and it was this one technician.

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And I got called into the boss's

office and they said, look, we've

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had complaints because the exam rooms

are messy after you guys are there.

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And I was like, what does that mean?

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He was like, there's just the

tabletops haven't been washed,

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wiped down, or whatever.

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And I said, oh, I'm sorry.

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Is that my job?

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Am I supposed to do that?

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And they were like, no, you're

supposed to, your one paraprofessional

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is supposed to handle it.

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And I'm like, am I her boss?

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, and they said.

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Well, no, not really, but you're the

doctor, so you're sort of in charge.

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And so I was, really sort of,

I was like, oh man, I'm supposed

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to tell this person what to do.

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, and I, I really struggled with

that because I don't like to tell

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people what to do and it feels

weird and, you know what I mean?

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And especially like, Hey, I need

you to clean these rooms up.

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And so I was kind of lost and so

I, I actually asked for advice and

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the best piece of advice I got was

somebody was like, Andy, stop trying.

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to manage people and just, just lead them.

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You guys are a team.

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Just be a team and this is a thing

you have to get taken care of.

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And so the next time we were back

together, we got to the end of the day

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and I said, Hey, it's the end of the day.

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Let's run through what you and I have

to get done so we can get outta here.

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And , we put together the list that

she had and I had, and she had a lot of

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things I didn't, I didn't know about.

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And I had a lot of stuff that she didn't

know about, but we laid it down and I

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said, how are we gonna get outta here?

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And that was the last time that happened

and it was, the best outcome it could

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have possibly been, and, but that.

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I would put that mentality forward.

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, , for veterinarians especially coming

in is , take the team mentality, guys.

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How are we gonna work together?

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How can we do the best job?

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What do you need from me?

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How do I tell you when

I need things from you?

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I love that.

424

The other pitfalls that I see, and

again, this sort of ties into it, , I

425

think some new veterinarians that

come in and they feel like they're

426

supposed to show their authority.

427

You know what I mean?

428

And I'm like, , that's a bad idea.

429

Like.

430

Ev you've got a white

coat and a stethoscope.

431

Like people like you, you have,

you have relationship power.

432

Like people, people are going to

respect you if you treat them well and

433

you do a good job with your patients.

434

And so again, I would say lean into that.

435

Lean into that team mentality.

436

Vicky: And I think we would think of

that as more old school mentality.

437

So in the olden days, so way

before I was ever a tech, I think

438

that really was the relationship.

439

It was more of a, the veterinarian

and the technician , and more, not

440

so much team based, but more, boss

and, and I tell you what to do.

441

But I think what we've come to

realize is that as a, to benefit our

442

patients, we need to work as a team.

443

I bring skills, you have skills.

444

We can compliment each

other in what we're doing.

445

And so I think that has really,

when I look at the profession,

446

having been in this profession for

a while, I've seen that evolution,

447

which is so exciting to me.

448

Because I, I feel like it's more

collaborative and at the end of the

449

day, it's better for us and our health

and our mental health because I think

450

there was a lot more burnout in, in

particularly for technicians, right?

451

Because they were like, well, but I

wanna be part of the, , the solution.

452

I wanna help these patients.

453

And they didn't really feel that way.

454

And there may be still some of

that going on, but I feel like

455

more and more we're seeing where.

456

They're feeling more like

they're part of the plan.

457

So when fluffy leaves and Fluffy

is doing better, you feel that you

458

were part of that and, and that's

what fuels us to keep doing this.

459

Andy: Yeah, well I'll, I, you

know, I'll even add on to that

460

and, and I think you're so right.

461

But you know, one of the things that

I have learned and I try to teach

462

to young doctors is if you want to

be able to delegate to your support

463

staff with the clients, you have got

to one, you have got to include your

464

paraprofessionals in your decisions and

in the plan so they know what's going on.

465

Because the competitors, if.

466

They wanna talk to the person who

knows what is happening with their pet.

467

And if the, and if, you are the only

one who knows what's happening, they're

468

not gonna be happy talking to the staff.

469

And so I want my techs to have the

knowledge to, to do these conversations.

470

And then also I.

471

I need the pet owners to trust

my techs and my support staff, or

472

they're not gonna wanna talk to 'em.

473

And so it's that endorsement,

it's including your tech in

474

the conversation in the clinic.

475

it's speaking highly of them, letting the

person know that they are so lucky because

476

Vicki is gonna be their point of contact.

477

She, I work together all the time.

478

She's gonna be so much easier to get

in touch with than I am, but she will.

479

And also she's gonna be doing

the actual nursing care.

480

And so like, it's just, there's so

many ways you can do this and that.

481

It's such an easy trick and it makes

the support staff feel appreciated,

482

valued, looped in, and informed.

483

And it makes the.

484

Pet owners feel good about being

able to engage with your staff.

485

And it also, it frees you up to

communicate with your, , with your

486

tech or nurses, your assistants,

and also to know that, the pet

487

owners are being taken care of it.

488

So, Vicki, when we think about,

ways to sort of instill the behaviors

489

and sort of the team mentality and

also to, to continue to improve.

490

I mean, so I'll tell you real quick.

491

I've got, one of my favorites is, , what

went well, what would be even better.

492

And so I think this is a great,

I, if you wanna be able to give.

493

People feedback.

494

I have found one of the best ways

is to ask for feedback yourself.

495

And so coming in, and again, it also shows

people that you are trying to get better

496

it, that you're not, that you don't have

a big ego, that you're not trying to,

497

you know, I don't know, lift yourself

up over, over other people, you know?

498

And, and one of my favorite things at

the end of the day is to say to the, to

499

the technician I work with, Hey, what

do you think went really well today?

500

what was your favorite parts of the day?

501

And then what could we do better tomorrow?

502

And I, and like, I think that is

such a nice way to ask for feedback.

503

And hopefully they'll say, oh,

well how about from what did you

504

think went really well today and

what could we do better tomorrow?

505

And I think it's a soft way

to kind of have a little.

506

A feedback session, and I think by asking

for feedback, and then often, hope

507

that they ask me to , for my feedback.

508

Sometimes they don't and that that's okay.

509

But it's just a nice way to try to, to

get people sort of going and growing.

510

Do you have, , strategies that

you like or that you've seen?

511

Vicky: Yeah, absolutely.

512

, and that's something that, sometimes

it's hard to take feedback and so

513

we all have to realize that and.

514

Andy: Espec, especially early in

your career when you're brand new and

515

like you don't want people to call

out that the emperor has no clothes.

516

Vicky: right.

517

Because I think, and I think it's

the same for vets and for techs,

518

and obviously I'm speaking for

technicians, but we don't wanna mess up.

519

, we're highly skilled individuals

that just wanna do what's right.

520

And so we don't wanna do anything

that's wrong because obviously

521

that could affect the patient.

522

But what I like to do is, you know, and

I a lot of times will ask for feedback.

523

I, I do it to this day even about

like my lectures and things, like,

524

what could I have done better?

525

And I think when we're thinking

about giving that feedback, we always

526

need to find something positive.

527

You always need to start

with something positive.

528

Andy: Yeah.

529

Vicky: and that's,

that's just human nature.

530

Like, if you start out by saying,

well, you could have done X better.

531

They're not gonna really hear anything

else after that because then they're gonna

532

be saying, oh my gosh, I did X wrong.

533

Oh my gosh, I thought I was doing okay.

534

So always start with a positive.

535

So, you know, I, I really love how

you're, petting the dogs and, calming

536

'em down before you take blood on them.

537

That that's really is helping

to calm the dogs down.

538

Okay, great.

539

So now you're kind of on a high,

and then when you think about

540

what could you have done better.

541

There always has to be.

542

You're just not saying you could have

done X better, but giving some advice

543

as to what they could have done better.

544

So I think next time, maybe , some cats

don't really like their ears touched, so

545

maybe stay away from the ears so much.

546

, and do more around the chin.

547

They really love when their

chin gets, petted more.

548

And I, I feel like maybe they're

calmed down a little bit better.

549

And so you're not really saying

that they did anything wrong.

550

You're, giving some good,

constructive advice and that's

551

the way we need to think about it.

552

Instead of saying, you know, that

cat really didn't like his ear

553

scratched, uh, okay, uh, I didn't

know I, I'm new to this profession.

554

I didn't know that cat.

555

You know that cat.

556

You didn't know that cat doesn't

like his, his ear scratched.

557

You knew he really likes his chin scratch.

558

There's ways of saying it, I think is

the biggest thing to, to think about is

559

how we are framing things, because how

we say things is how someone is gonna

560

listen and, and that might affect them.

561

and now , they're upset

and we never want that.

562

Right.

563

Andy: I think it's so funny there.

564

I think that there's definitely something

to the idea that , everybody's, , a

565

little bit insecure, you know, especially

when, when we start working together

566

and it, it's funny, people take

criticism very personally sometimes,

567

and even though you say, Andy, I

just talk to you about how you were

568

holding the syringe and I was like.

569

You, you indicated that I

don't know what I'm doing.

570

You know, like, and again, we

could, and so I think you have

571

to be really careful with that.

572

, the biggest thing for me, I've

actually really been amazed at how

573

often you can just give positive

feedback and get what you want.

574

And so.

575

If, if there's something, if there's

something around animal welfare,

576

handling, stress, things like

that, you should say something.

577

but for, but a lot of, but for a lot

of small personal preference things,

578

it's actually easier just to wait a

little bit and then when the person

579

happens to do the way that you like.

580

Celebrate that.

581

Say, oh, hey, I really loved

the way you set that room up.

582

That was great.

583

Like, it was just the way it was laid out.

584

I thought that went great.

585

, so for example, let's say you work

at a practice and, , it's kind

586

of, hit or miss about whether

or not , the technician comes in

587

with a doctor to work in the room.

588

If your preference is, Hey, I really like

the technician to, to come in the room,

589

the one time during the day that, , that

he brings you the vaccine, say, Hey, could

590

you get me a hand real quick, with this?

591

And we do it.

592

And then after it's over, say,

Hey, I really liked having

593

you in the room with me.

594

Like you were a really great helper.

595

That was really, really helpful for me.

596

Would you be open to doing

more, more of those cases?

597

And then they don't feel

like they let you down.

598

They feel like, great, you know,

hey, he saw that I was valuable

599

and, and he asked me for this.

600

And so again, I, I

don't take this too far.

601

And again, I'm not so, so fragile

that I won't, well, I won't

602

say, Hey, this would help me.

603

But again, we are talking

about people who are brand new.

604

They're new as doctors.

605

It is.

606

, and one of my, one of my big things I

try to impress on young doctors is it

607

is amazing how you can train your staff.

608

Only using positive reinforcement, but,

but you have to call out the things

609

that they're doing that you like, that

make your life easier and just call

610

'em out and say, thank you so much.

611

I really like it when you do that way.

612

And, , I always love it when

the tech say to me, Hey, thank

613

you so much for doing that.

614

That really helped me.

615

I go, great, now I know how to help.

616

And so anyway, I, I think that

that's a, a, a good way to,

617

to build that relationship.

618

Vicky: Oh, I agree.

619

Absolutely.

620

Andy: Vicki, this is fantastic.

621

I love this idea.

622

I think , you've sort of

given me a beautiful, just

623

a whole headspace mentality.

624

I, I think that team approach

is absolutely critical.

625

I love that we talked about this,

where can people find you online?

626

You're, you are doing so much your.

627

You're publishing articles, you

are just such a neat voice in our

628

profession, , where can people

find you and keep up with you.

629

Vicky: Yeah.

630

, probably LinkedIn is, probably the best.

631

I've become a lot more active on LinkedIn.

632

I, I don't do TikTok, sorry,

633

Andy: So

634

Vicky: was a senior tech.

635

I, I know I haven't really gotten into

the TikTok world, but, , certainly can

636

find me on LinkedIn and certainly I'm

in different, you know, publications and

637

such and, , and different conferences.

638

So if you're, you know, at a conference,

I'd love to, to meet you and say hi.

639

Andy: Absolutely.

640

Great, Vicki, thanks for being here guys.

641

Thanks for tuning in everybody.

642

Take care of yourselves.

643

take care.

644

Vicky: Thank you.

645

Andy: And that's what I

got . Thanks for being here.

646

Thanks again to Vicki, thanks

to Hill's Pet Nutrition for

647

making this, , episode possible.

648

Gang, I hope there was something

here that, , that spoke to you.

649

I hope it inspired you.

650

I hope it made you think , about

how you communicate with your team,

651

whether they're brand new or not.

652

Anyway, gang, take care

of yourselves, everybody.

653

I will see you soon.