I sat down with Tamari Jacob, Certified Lactation Counselor, mom of 4, and founder of One With the Pump. After going through her own difficult, exclusive pumping journey - twice - Tamari realized just how massive the gap was in resources, education, and support for moms who need to pump, so she set out to fill it herself. We get into what a real "feeding plan" should actually look like in those first crucial hours and days - not just "I want to breastfeed," but what that actually means in practice: emptying every two to three hours, when to try hand expression versus pumping, and why triple feeding should never be a long-term plan. We also get into pump education 101 - the difference between a primary and secondary pump, why "hospital-grade" on a wearable pump ad is basically a marketing myth, and why flange sizing matters way more than most moms realize.

Join The Breastfeeding Blueprint: www.thelabormama.com/breastfeeding & use the code PODCAST to save 20%

What I loved most about this one is how Tamari balances hard data with so much grace for moms. We talked about the pressure of social media - how a stranger's 90-ounce freezer stash isn't the benchmark, and how making 25-30 ounces a day is genuinely something to be proud of. Whether you're exclusively pumping, combo feeding, or just trying to figure out what pump to register for, Tamari's whole philosophy comes down to one thing: your goal is her goal, and there's no one "right" way to feed your baby.

More from Tamari Jacob, CLC:

• JoinThe Ultimate Pumping Course™and use code ‘BEHOLD’ for 15% off!
• Follow Tamari onInstagram,TikTok, andYouTube: @onewiththepump
• OneWiththePump.com
• Watch her YouTube video:Understanding Your Breast Pump Parts - What You Need to Know!

Mentioned in this episode:

Episode 57: Which Breast Pump Should You Get? Let's Break Them All Down

Episode 53: The Truth About Low Milk Supply: What Everyone Needs to Know Before Baby is Born

Episode 28: Oversupply, Exclusive Pumping & Neurodivergent Lactation with The Oversupply Mama

Helpful Timestamps:

• 00:00 Exclusive Pumping
• 03:52 Tamari’s Journey to Exclusive Pumping
• 11:19 Building a Feeding Plan
• 17:40 Options When Nursing Isn't Working
• 21:44 Pumping Myths
• 28:43 Primary vs Wearable Pumps
• 33:41 Social Media Supply Myths
• 38:29 Supplements and Freezer Stash
• 42:40 Triple Feeding Reality
• 44:13 Pumping Resources

About your host:

Lo Mansfield, MSN, RNC-OB, CLC is a registered nurse, mama of 4, and a birth, baby, and motherhood enthusiast. She is both the host of the Lo & Behold podcast and the founder of The Labor Mama.

For more education, support and “me too” from Lo, please visit her website and check out her online courses and digital guides for birth, breastfeeding, and postpartum/newborns. You can also follow @thelabormama and @loandbehold_thepodcast on Instagram and join her email list here.

For more pregnancy, birth, postpartum and motherhood conversation each week, be sure to subscribe to The Lo & Behold podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you prefer to listen!

A request: If this episode meant something to you, would you consider a 5 star rating and leaving us a review? Yes, we read them, and yes, they help keep L & B going! ♥️

Connect with Lo more on: INSTAGRAM | TIK TOK | PINTEREST | FACEBOOK

Disclaimer

Opinions shared by guests of this show are their own, and do not always reflect those of The Labor Mama platform. Additionally, the information you hear on this podcast or that you receive via any linked resources should not be considered medical advice. Please see our full disclaimer here.

Additionally, we may make a small commission from some of the links shared with you. Please know, this comes at no additional cost to you, supports our small biz, and is a way for us to share brands and products with you that we genuinely love.

Produced and Edited by Vaden Podcast Services

Mentioned in this episode:

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Not all pumps are created equal.

When brands ask me to write hospital grade, I actually tell them no.

I'm like, "Tell me what about this is more hospital grade." Like, don't even start with me.

I get so angry about it.

Flanges have sizes, and you need to know what size you are because otherwise you could be a size six shoe wearing a size 10, and that's obviously not gonna be very conducive for your pumping journey

Motherhood is all-consuming.

Having babies, nursing, feeling the fear of loving someone that much.

Then there's this baby on your chest, and boom, your entire life has changed.

It's a privilege of being your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body.

The truth is, I can be having the best time being a mom one minute, and then the next, I'm questioning all my life choices.

I'm Lo Mansfield, your host of the Lo and Behold podcast, mama of four littles, former labor and postpartum RN, CLC, and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.

If there is one thing I know after years of delivering babies at the bedside, and then having, and now raising those four of my own, it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this, and we're leaning into that truth here.

With a mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert insights, and practical applications, each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories that we are honest about, and stories that are ours.

This is the Lo and Behold podcast.

Today's guest was and is so easy to talk to, and I'm sure that translates so well to the ways that she can support you, the ways that she supports other moms.

I have Tamari Jacob with me today.

She is a certified lactation consultant, mom of four, and founder of One With a Pump.

So if you've heard of it or you perhaps follow her on any of the social media platforms, that is who is my guest today.

After spending countless hours attached to a breast pump herself, she realized that while breastfeeding may be natural, pumping is definitely not, and that you, moms, you deserve better support.

Today, Tamari helps thousands of breastfeeding and pumping moms navigate things like milk supply, flange sizing, pumping schedules, returning to work, and all of these other things that no one really talks about before your baby arrives, right?

Through her online community of more than two hundred thousand moms, courses, workshops, support programs, she combines evidence-based information with also practical advice, humor, you'll pick up on that a little bit today, and just a healthy dose of reality.

Really, that is what I think you will pick up on, is that healthy dose of reality.

Tamari's mission is just to help moms like you feel more confident, more informed, and more supported because motherhood is, what, hard enough as it is without having to Google, " Is this normal?" at two AM while you are also attached to a pump Tamari, I am so glad to have you here with me today.

Why don't you go ahead, introduce yourself, let us know where you are, 'cause I can see you're in your children's bedroom And we will just go from there.

Well, thank you for having me.

My name is Tamari from Mom With the Pump, or people that see me on the street will say the Pump Lady, you know, that works as well.

That's right.

I'm Tamari from Mom With the Pump, currently live from my children's bedroom because that's where my office is-

I

like it

because we need, we need to make it work one way or another.

So he, uh, he currently sleeps, takes his morning nap inside of my large, thank God, large closet, and then I have his bedroom.

And you know what?

We make it work one way or another.

That's what matters.

That's hilarious.

I just, like, love pointing it out, and I know we talked about it before we started, but I just think it's just proof of-

Right?

moms

just figuring out all the things

and making it work.

100%. Like, literally, we just have to make it work.

I feel like that's just how the mom life goes, and if you, if you don't do that, you're too stressed all the time.

So the best thing you can do- Yeah … for yourself is just make it work.

Look at… That's the theme.

We could just end the podcast episode right there.

Right?

I love it.

Make it work, guys.

Make it work.

Just make it work.

All right.

Obviously you are the Pump Lady, and that's what we kinda wanna get into today.

I'm assuming, and I've s- you know, seen what you do online, read your bios, things like that, like, th- this is personal, right?

This, this endeavor to support others in pumping.

Give us, like, the really quick recap of- Yeah … why you actually do what you do.

Yeah.

How long you've been doing it, actually.

I didn't see that anywhere.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think you've been around for a long time, so

let's hear it.

I have been around for since 2020.

I think, you know, I'm one of those COVID, COVID ones that was like, "We're very-" Same … "we'll do it." … Very happy that it happened then, but my real journey started in 2017 when I had my first son.

I have four children as of now.

And I, I really wanted to nurse him.

Didn't really think much of it, as most first-time moms do.

I took a birth class.

Really was not thinking about anything past the labor.

I remember, like, the, my whole thing, I was telling my husband I was just nervous about, like, the epidural and the labor.

I wasn't really thinking anything past that.

I think that's very common.

Now, the problem is, is that when you don't think anything past it, you don't realize th- how detrimental that is to your journey to not know what you're doing regarding pumping or nursing.

So I literally had no idea anything about nursing, anything about pumping.

I just didn't know anything about it.

And this delicious, gorgeous boy came out, and he absolutely refused to latch.

Like, not happening, wasn't doing it.

My mom and I were in her house.

is screaming.

I somehow…

Like, we figured out enough to get the pump out.

I'm pumping one side while she's feeding the 30, you know, little half an ounce to him, and we're, like, switching off back and forth.

Pure and absolute chaos.

I basically try nursing him for two months.

Countless lactation consultants, tons and tons of money, buying every product on the shelf.

Nothing worked.

I ended up, and I call it f- being forced into exclusive pumping because it wasn't my choice.

I didn't wanna do it.

And exclusively pumping, what that means is that you only pump.

So you pump, and then you put the milk into the bottles, and you give the bottles to the baby.

So got 100, almost 100% breast milk, but he got it in bottles.

He did not latch from me.

And it was a very, very difficult time for me.

It was 2017.

I don't remember, every time I see this story, I don't remember if, if, if Instagram was actually a thing, but it definitely wasn't what it was now, 'cause there was no way to, like, search for what I was looking for on there.

'Cause I remember, like, looking for blogs, so that's, like, where we were at.

And I found a couple of people who blogged, and then I found, like, a Facebook page, and I was like, " Okay, I guess this is a thing." Ended up exclusively pumping. Never loved it, but kind of just made it through. And then I had, was pregnant with my daughter, and I was like, "Okay, this time we're gonna be smart.

I'm gonna t- we're really g- we're gonna try again." But then she ended up being born in March of 2020, and if no one else remembers what happened in March of 2020, the entire world shut down.

So, I was not able to get any help.

Again, in March there was no Zoom either.

W- it was, like, that real limbo.

So I ended up exclusively pumping for her again.

Again, not by choice.

But this time, a bunch of my friends had babies at the same time, and I was like, I clearly kind of knew what I was doing a little bit because I had had my first.

So I was like, "Let me just put it into an Instagram for my friends." And thankfully we are here today because of that Instagram for my friends, which led me to being able to retire from teaching and do this full time, and just help so many more moms.

I have consultants now that help me, and just everything I could've dreamed about, just being able to help as many moms as we can is the goal.

It's so cool.

Y- you know, I had my first in, at the very end of 2016, so we were right there- Oh, yeah … at the same time, and Instagram was just pictures, right?

Like the very- Right, like just pictures I think, right?

I feel like beginning.

So none of… Yeah.

So there was none of this, like, education.

I was not going there to ask- Right … a question about anything related to my baby.

Like, not even a thought in my head.

Yeah.

So it really is wild how quickly that has pivoted- Yes … and how much that has changed.

Which is cool, right?

Because it allows- Yeah … people like yourself to, I mean, totally change your own life, let alone all the people you're impacting.

100%.

But it's also a, like, massive just proliferation of information- … that can be also really hard to parse through, right?

Yes, yes.

And so I think that's, that's the definitely the challenge of all of it- Yeah

too.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I also feel like- I don't know.

Were, were moms exclusively pumping and we just weren't hearing about it?

Or has this become more of a thing like, "Hey, you don't wanna breastfeed, you don't like breastfeeding, it's not working out. You could exclusively pump," and now there's so many products and stuff to support it- Yeah

even more so.

Do you feel like there are more exclusively pumping ' cause now they realize that's a viable option?

Or was it just not something we heard about because the online world didn't look the same when it was 2017?

So I think, it's a good question, I think it's a bit of both.

Yeah, at my, like, 40-week appointment with my son, she asked me if I was planning to breastfeed, and I said, "I hope so.

I hope I'll be able to latch." I don't even know how, like, I said that.

And she was like, "Well, you could always pump." And I was like, "What are you talking about?" And she was like, "Well, you could just pump and put it into bottles." And that was the first time I even heard of that even, like remotely.

Again, we didn't have all these massive, you know, social platforms to know that.

So I heard that ever so slightly there.

Never heard it again from anyone.

Like, as I was going through it, I never heard of it from anyone, anyone that I was around.

No one else ended up doing it.

And I guess I think that moms were doing it.

I don't think they were doing it in the capacity that they were doing today, where it really is an option, especially because the amount of moms that are working.

I mean, I'm sure in 2017 there were tons of moms working too, but, you know, as every year goes on, I feel like we're just working more and more.

And even moms that work from home, they still oftentimes need to pump.

So I think it's just becoming a little bit more of a thing to be able to, like, go back and forth between the two of them, and it's definitely a little bit more popular now that people know it is an option.

'Cause a lot of times people will just go straight to formula, which is fine if that's what they want.

But a lot of times moms actually do wanna do breast milk, but the latching isn't working, and that's where we come in, and we're like, " Let's change your life.

Let's help you figure out how to exclusively pump, how to manage this.

If nursing is going well, but not well enough, let's help you figure out how to nurse somewhat and then pump for the rest." Like, it's not all or nothing.

And so it's definitely becoming more popular, that's for sure.

Yeah.

It feels like that as well.

I mean, I was at the bedside in all those years too, and we certainly, we pulled out that hospital-grade pump if you needed it.

Like, sent… We actually would, like, send you home with a whole pumping kit, which I felt like was really nice.

Yeah.

I don't know that every hospital does that or still does it, not that the flanges would fit most people.

Right.

But anyway.

Exactly.

They still don't.

They still don't.

Um, you know, we were getting stuff out.

We would give out the manual pump, though, which I thought was great.

Yeah.

Um, so people could have one of those.

But I don't think, yeah, it felt like the plan of care was never go home, and if you need to, this could be… And maybe it's 'cause, you know, when they were there right in front of us, the goal's the breastfeeding, at the breast, exclusive breastfeeding.

Like, that conversation wasn't really going that far down the road.

But it did feel like that idea of, hey, you could exclusively pump, just wasn't really being, tossed around that much, or it didn't-

It was definitely not as popular

… Lo: yeah, like I don't even

have

that many friends who have done it, honestly.

Yeah, it was definitely not as popular.

Yeah.

And I remember when I moved to my… We used to live in the city.

When I, when I moved to my new neighborhood, you know, we were at, like, a meal and we were hanging out with friends, and someone was like- Oh, I exclusively pumped.

And I literally was like- Were you like, "Miri?"

I was… I, yeah.

I was like,

" Lo: Wait, you did what?" And I was like, "Oh,

my God." Like,

I was so drawn to her.

And I was like, "Wait, you also pump?" Like… And I told her, I was like, "I never heard of anyone that also pumped." And I was like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe this." I was really shocked.

Like, that's how I know it wasn't so popular because I was like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe this other mom also pumps."

I was… I couldn't believe it.

Yeah.

It was amazing.

Yeah.

When you find your people, right?

I was like, "Tell me more. Tell me more." And like, even- Yeah … till now, I'm still friends with her, like eight years later.

And I'm like, that's how I knew- That's awesome … we were gonna be friends.

Yep.

Okay.

It's so

funny.

You have alluded to a couple times like, "Oh, I just didn't really know," or, "They asked me what I was gonna do, and I just said I think I'm gonna breastfeed," or whatever.

Yeah.

Do you have, for moms who maybe feel exactly the same way right now- Yeah … or they're, or they're saying, "My plan is to breastfeed," what do you talk about?

I'm sure you maybe do consultations even prenatally sometimes with people.

Yeah, of course.

Or- Yeah.

Yes?

Okay.

Yeah.

So what do you talk about to them when it's like, "Hey, let's make a quote unquote feeding plan"?

What does that kind of look like saying- That's a- … I'd like to breastfeed.

I would like my baby to latch also.

Yeah.

Well, that is such a good question.

I don't think anybody asked that before.

That's a great question.

I know.

It shocks me.

I know.

I've never- Well, I just think it's little- … anybody ever asked that

it's like kind of, it's kind of shallow, not the question itself isn't shallow, but the actual depth of the question.

Yeah.

No, no, no,

it's true.

Of saying, "I just wanna breastfeed." Yeah.

What else could they maybe be thinking of?

Yeah.

And I'll just say- Or what could they- … one thing before I answer this very good question, is that a lot of times, specifically on Instagram or other places, even in consultations- Moms do not have the basic knowledge.

And one of my most popular videos on YouTube is parts of the pump.

Literally, like, what, like the basic of like this is the tubing.

For those of you guys who don't know what this is, check out my YouTube channel first to find the video.

But like this is the tubing, this is what a flange is.

These flanges come in sizes.

Moms don't, uh, know this basic information, and sometimes it, like, really scratching that, like I'll have a consult with a mom and I'll find out instead of using a pumping bra she's holding her flanges for the last month.

And I'm like, "Are you okay?" Like, "You shouldn't be doing that." Are your

wrists okay?

Yeah.

I'm like, "Are you okay?" And they're like, "What do you mean?

I didn't know th- know there was another option." And I, I bet you money that there's someone that just listened to that saying, "Wait, I'm not supposed to be holding my flanges?" Mm-hmm.

No, you're definitely not supposed to be holding your flanges.

So I love that question, and I think it's really important.

Like, I did not know what the basic feeding plan is.

And what, like every mom going into it needs to understand is that you need to be emptying your breasts every three hours.

So they tell you that the baby should be eating every three hours, but I don't think anyone has ever told me that your breasts need to be also be emptied every three hours if you're planning to do this.

Because, you know, in the hospital my babies… I call my babies Crayola crayon.

They all turn yellow.

literally they're all just k- they all just get jaundice in the hospital.

So they kind of, like, push formula on me, and I'm like not in the place to… this is just a personal thing, but, like, nursing colostrum for me just feels very stressful, so I end up pumping in the hospital and, I just end up giving formula until my milk comes in.

You can absolutely nurse, guys.

That's just, like, a personal thing, and that's okay to do that.

So I'll end up giving formula, but, like, not one person in the hospital tells me, " Oh, by the way, like, are you, are you pumping," or, "Are you emptying?" Or like, "You should be doing that." So one of the main things to note about those early days of the feeding plan is that the first 12 weeks, I mean, it obviously, it could be different based on how often your baby's eating, your supply if you're, if you have a lot of milk or very little milk.

Average should be emptying your breasts around every three hours.

Emptying means either nursing or pumping.

If your baby is getting a bottle, you need to be pumping.

And, like, that's like the bold underline of what you need to know if you wanna create that milk supply.

Super important

It's funny when you say, you said nursing and/or pumping.

Yeah.

I would say also sometimes both.

Yeah.

Like, the number of times I've helped a patient, you know, being the postpartum nurse, and it's like we tried to latch this baby.

Yeah.

Maybe they kind of did something for five minutes, but that clearly wasn't, like, an effective something on the breast actually, like, pulling, triggering- Yeah

talking to the body.

And so sometimes it's like, "All right, we're gonna keep trying. Your baby's really sleepy," whatever.

Yeah.

" Lo: And let's also maybe have you pump for eight minutes also or whatever so that we know your body's truly being stimulated." Exactly. Yeah. 'Cause sometimes you're like, " Oh, well, my baby latched," and it's like, well, that was three minutes, and then they went back to sleep.

Yeah.

And if they're gonna go another three hours, you know, before we can get them awake again and… Yeah, yeah, that's like a whole combo- I call that, yeah … about doing all these things.

I call that, like- We gotta empty.

Exactly.

We gotta do something.

I'll call that nursing gravy, where it's like- … it's just kind of there.

Like, you need to really get the potatoes.

You need to pump.

But, like, definitely add the gravy because we wanna be able to work on that.

That's kind of my analogy- Yeah … to moms, and they're like, "Oh, okay. Make that make sense."

Right.

Yeah.

So I think ultimately this idea is, like- I want to breastfeed is a great, you know, goal, period, full stop.

But just thinking through, what does that look like even in the- Yeah … first 48 hours?

Like you're saying, is there extra stimulation that we need to be doing?

Are we hand expressing as well?

Does that mean pumping if baby's not latching?

Like, that actually really means, hey, I need to empty-

Yeah

every couple of hours.

And then obviously, what does that look like moving forward as well?

So just we need more moms showing up with a little better understanding, like you're saying- Yeah, absolutely … of, of what it means to say, "Oh, I wanna breastfeed." Okay.

What… There's some, like, process underneath that- Yeah, yeah

that has to be happening within that goal.

Absolutely.

So if you wanna go in there with a goal of breastfeeding, go in with the goal of you are most likely going to be nursing between every two and three hours, sometimes a little bit earlier, sometimes a little bit later, and you're gonna attempt to nurse.

You're gonna switch sides.

So like the first three hours, you'll start with the right side.

There's no really amount of time.

Sometimes it could be… of a newborn feeding could take 45 minutes.

Like, it's really- Oh, my first

took forever

… Tamari: yeah, it takes- 45 minutes.

She was so

slow.

It's really… Yeah, it really takes a while.

So sometimes it'll end up being like 20 minutes on one side, and then you'll put them on the other side for like another 20 minutes.

It's, it's fairly common.

And then the next time you're gonna start with like the left side.

You'll do that side first for 20 minutes, then the other side.

Now, the thing is, is that in the early days you have colostrum, which can be ve- basically impossible if not just very difficult to pump.

For some moms, they can do it.

For a lot of moms it can be very difficult.

So off the bat, if the nursing is going well, and how do you know if the nursing is going well?

If the baby is pooping or, or peeing.

That's how in the hospital… I mean, you also tell me.

You obviously dealt with this the most.

Like, you guys, that's what you were looking for, right?

Like, when you wanted to see if nursing was going well- just poop, just poops or pees.

Yeah.

That's what they're looking for.

Yeah.

So the nurses are looking to make sure that you're having a, the baby's having a certain amount of pooping and peeing, per day, and, they're real- they're really strict on that.

They wanna know exactly how often, you're nursing and how often, the baby's pooping or peeing.

like the first thing that they'll ask and they'll check when the baby comes in.

If it's going well, and the baby is pooping or peeing the way that they need it to happen, then you'll just continue doing what you're doing.

Congratulations, you maybe have a less difficult journey than 90% of the world, but like- … you're in that 10%, and I'm so happy for you.

Fantastic.

Now, what happens to the other 90% of people where it doesn't go so well?

So your other options include, it can be very difficult, like I said, to pump colostrum.

So you can still try.

And I said the mom wants to nurse, always start off trying to nurse.

When the lactation consultants in the hospital come in, I have my feelings about them.

Some of them are absolutely incredible, and some of them are absolutely horrible.

I guess that's also, like, in every profession.

Just, you know- I think so.

we're, we're so, we're so vulnerable when we're postpartum that we remember them more.

Like, I remember that nasty one, but I ha- but I always say that I will say I had the most amazing experience with my third and fourth.

Her name was Erica, and I, I found her in the hospital with my fourth from my third, and I told her that she changed my whole journey.

I said, " I never stopped thinking about you." Mm-hmm.

She was incredible, and she helped me to get the baby on a little bit, to nurse.

So ask for lactation to be there to help you attempt to nurse.

If it really isn't working or they're saying the baby needs a bottle, your options then turn into can you hand express colostrum?

So you can either hand express colostrum.

They'll give you, like, you know, whether it's a little cup or, like, a SyllaRet, and you can put the colostrum into a syringe and just put that into the baby's mouth.

If that's working, that's great.

It, it's super annoying, but if it works, and, you know, the colostrum's obviously full of nutrients, but again, if it's working and it's going well for you, you're gonna end up doing that every three hours, which is great.

If that situation for you is just not gonna happen, and that's where, like, I want people to know that it's amazing to do it.

I personally was just like, for me, like, hand expressing was just, like, not working.

I didn't wanna deal with it.

So I would pump every three hours for about 15 minutes, which is short, but in the hospital before my milk comes in, I just, I would tell moms to pump for 15 minutes, and then the baby gets a bottle, either, either formula or breast milk.

And those are, like, a lot of different options, and they're all okay.

So whichever one kind of works for you.

And it doesn't need to be all, like, you can do this time I'm gonna hand express, but in three hours from now I'm way too tired.

This time I'll pump.

Next time, wow, he actually nursed well probably 'cause the lactation consultant was here, fantastic.

This time the baby nursed.

I'm like, it's okay to do a combo of all those things until your milk comes in, and once your milk comes in, well, that's a whole different animal.

But, you know, it, it gets, just gets a lot easier after that, but this is at least to get you through that first week.

Right, that milk transitioning coming in- Yeah

all that.

With the ultimate goal, back to what you said, right, of you gotta be emptying your breasts.

You've gotta be stimulating the breasts- Of course … every couple of hours.

Yeah.

So however you're doing that, great.

Exactly.

But know some of these options.

And I think that's what I love for moms is know the different ways to do that, particularly- Yeah

in these first couple of days so that if you're like, "This is not working and I'm so stressed out," okay, why don't you- Yeah … try hand expressing?

Why don't you try- Yeah … the pump instead?

Like that you- Yeah … can have some optionality, still working towards your goal of exclusive breastfeeding, exclusive pumping, feeding him bottle but only breast milk.

Like, you can still do all these things- Absolutely.

Yeah … to work, to work towards that.

Okay, quick pause for a second.

I just wanna talk to you about breastfeeding.

If this is something you are really hoping works out for the two of you, but you are also kind of low-key wondering why so many moms say it was so much harder than expected, this is for you.

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All right, let's get you back to your episode

Okay.

When it comes to the pumping stuff specifically- Yeah … give me one thing that you would just want everyone to know before they ever even open the box of the pump that's in front of them or that they've chosen.

I know.

Which, which very important detail to give?

I'm gonna cheat and give, like, a two- Okay, you can do

two if

you need to.

Yeah.

I'll give two in one.

Number one is not all pumps are created equal.

So those amazing ads that you're getting, those targeted ads, For that

hospital-grade pump.

But, but like literally I see- That was air

quotes, by the

way.

But yeah, when brands ask me to write hospital-grade, I actually tell them no.

I'm like, "Tell me what about this is more hospital-grade." Like, don't even start with me.

I get so angry about it.

First of all- Yeah … no wearable pumps is hospital-grade, so stop lying.

Gets me so angry.

Hospital-grade means that multiple people can use it.

That's what- Mm … hospital-grade is.

It's not… Like, they're trying to make it seem like that's some fancy extra pump motor.

No, guys, no.

It's just that it's multi-user so that when they wheel in the pump, multiple people can use it.

So yes, I guess technically there are a lot of hospital, again, air quotes around, guys, hospital-grade pumps that are out there, but don't believe it.

Like, don't believe it.

Before you get a pump, I have free videos on my website, momwithapump.com.

I have as many as I can, as soon as I can get a review on there, I do it.

So as soon as you ha- as you, as you start looking for pumps, either take my free pump quiz, I literally t- like ask you all the questions to decide which pump to get, or look at the reviews.

Because what I, what hurts me so much is when a mom wastes her insur- her free insurance pump on a pump that's terrible because her sister's cousin told her to get that, and it's actually a terrible pump.

But, you know, she just totally get it just because.

So very important to know that not all pumps are created equal, and the wearable pumps, the targeted ads of the moms doing yoga in the pumps, that is number one, usually doesn't work.

Number two, they're usually not good.

That's usually an extra pump.

Like, you need to have a primary pump, and then you can have a secondary or wearable pump if you want.

So please be very careful to note that.

And then just sliding one more in is that flanges have sizes.

So those plastic things that you put on your breast or even the wearable pumps, they come in different sizes, and you need to know what size you are because otherwise you could be a size 6 shoe wearing a size 10, and that's obviously not gonna be very conducive for your pumping journey.

So please make sure to note that.

And that's obviously then something that we help do in our consultations or with the flange guide, but it's very important to know that.

Lo, did you find in the hospital that the nurses, like, knew anything about flanges?

Not that it was your job.

I'm just always curious.

It was our job.

all of our postpartum nurses, some were CLCs, some were IBCLCs- Wasn't, weren't you, like,

instructed to kind of know about flanges?

So when we first were hired and trained to do postpartum, we did LDRP, so labor, delivery, recovery, postpartum.

Ah.

Nurses did all the things.

So when you're hired, you spend, like, three shifts shadowing the lactation consultant who is just taking, just- Yeah

doing lactation stuff.

And so in that time you were tau- I would say, like, a lot of basics, what to look for, how to utilize these pump packs.

Yeah.

You know, if someone did need to pump, well, we would bring in the pack of all the pieces, bring in that hospital-grade pump that you mentioned that they can use, and then go through it and try to fit them with right sizes.

That's stuff like that.

Like, help them- Yeah … walk them through.

So that was often- Yeah … a postpartum nurse job ' cause the LC, you know, they're seeing 15 patients all discharging or whatever.

So they weren't always- Yeah … available for everyone when they needed, wanted them.

Yeah.

but I would say that we often, like, had three flange sizes and that was it.

Mm-hmm.

Or the one that comes in a lot of those packs or the hospital-grade packs I guess that you open is, I want to say, like, a size 24, which doesn't fit most people.

Yeah.

I can't remember.

And so what the

issue would be- They're normally a

24 or a 27.

Yeah, I

think that's- And they're, most moms are like a seven…

Most moms are a 17- Yeah … or a 19, so it's really not great.

Yes.

And so I think we had, like, a range of flange sizes, but it, we could not guarantee that we actually were fitting everyone well or even, like, went as small 'cause really a lot of people- Yeah … are so much smaller than what comes in a- with all of these pumps.

And so I think that would've been the primary issue that we would run into is even if there was the, "Oh, this flange isn't, like, the perfect size," well, that would be what was available for those 36 hours.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like a kind of do, do the best you can type thing-

Yeah

… Lo: with what's available.

And then that education of, " Hey, when you go home, like, order a smaller size or- Yeah … get fitted or, or," you know?

Like, so it's not a great- That's not a great scenario to start out with- Yeah … if it's not the right sizing- Right … for them.

Agree.

Yeah.

And that, yeah, I mean, I saw that all the time, and so that's probably what's going on in a lot of other places.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Still.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, 100%.

And they'll tell us, like sometimes they'll be like, "Oh, they sized me in the hospital." And I'll be like, "With all due respect, we're gonna size you again because we need to, we need to make sure." And that's okay.

Like I'm saying, I think it's also really important, and this is kind of for everyone, like to know what you're good at and to know what you're not good at, and there's nothing wrong with that.

When, you know, Woman with the Pump is completely virtual and when someone says they want to see someone in person, I say, " That's great." I don't sit here trying to convince them otherwise. I'm like, "Great.

Here's a referral to someone in person." It's really important that like the goal here is to help moms, so whatever way that mom needs help, if it's not gonna be me, then…

or I'm not the best person for the job, I will let someone else do that.

You know?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I think, specifically speaking about that kind of postpartum experience, again, yes, these RNs have worked with tons of people.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, every day you're maybe…

If you're working postpartum, maybe you help four different moms breastfeed that day- Yeah, yeah … in your 12-hour shift, and you multiply that by six years or nine years or 15 years, that's a lot of experience.

Yeah.

But also, there are others who all they do is literally support people with breastfeeding, like an- Yeah

IBCL.

Like, they're gonna have probably more knowledge, but then- Yeah … there's practical knowledge as well.

So I just… I, yeah, I think, like you said, it's good to… You can have preferences about how you get that care, and I think it's really helpful to be open to that kind of second opinion sometimes- Yeah … as well.

Like you're saying, you know, with this flange size fitting specifically, I'm thinking in the hospital a lot of times we're assessing almost purely based on function.

Like watching- Yeah … and like, oh, you know, this is too big.

We can tell by how, you know, it's pulling your anatomy and your tissues through, whereas there's also other ways that you can measure as well.

And we weren't whipping out measurement- Yeah … tools and all that.

We're kind of, like, putting it on, and we're like, "This looks okay for now." Like that's- Yeah … just the tools that were available to us.

Yeah.

And so even if they are helping you in the hospital, I would say it's always great to have someone else help you get that second opinion and just be sure.

And maybe it's right.

Maybe everyone made the right choices right away.

Yeah.

But if it's not, it's better to-

Yeah.

I like to say, like, unless everything is going 100% amazing, like you're not in any pain, baby's eating, comes off, going well, you go to the doctor, baby's gaining weight, unless everything's going 100% I always say that you should see someone after.

Because best case scenario, you see them and they tell you that everything is going well and to continue what you're doing, and then you're at peace.

You know, which is great.

Yeah, for sure.

The other thing is that they fix five things that are gonna completely change your journey positively.

So, you know, the, the lactation consultants in the hospital are really there as a temporary getting you through this here momentarily.

But outside the hospital is where you're gonna get someone that's long-term.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's definitely helpful.

So you have mentioned a couple times the primary versus secondary pump.

Yeah.

And I don't wanna get too lost in the weeds about products.

Yeah.

But there's a lot of people listening who are- probably about to order one through- Yeah

insurance or, thinking through that decision, or now they're going, "I don't know what one to buy," just from hearing- Yeah … you say that.

So- No,

totally

… Lo: give a, like, mini, mini education on what exactly you're saying, like, why you should get this type versus this type as your primary.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I don't like to say specific, names because they could change and someone could be listening to this in six months from now.

And, like, I just changed, I used to have one that I re- always recommended, and then a much better one literally finally just came out and, like, that's my go-to.

So I, and I don't like to say specific names, which is why I always say, like, I will…

First of all, if you follow me on Instagram, like, you will know which one I recommend because, like, I post it all the time, and I'll say, like, " Get this one through insurance.

Get this one," you know?

And I, and I'll even… I'll, I'll, I really try to help moms 'cause if there's… Like, the one that I recommend right now, it's pricey.

So I'll be like, "Get this one through insurance because it's free, and then if you wanna get, like, another one that's smaller or something else, you can pay for that one out of pocket, but at least you have the main one." So the main primary one that you're really looking for, you're essentially looking for one, just the main thing to note is that not a wearable one.

If it's one that has no wires or no tubing, it is not primary, and you can only use that one or two times a day.

You're looking for one that has tubing, doesn't have to go into the wall.

There's, there's a lot of them that are small that can be worked on a charge, so that's fine.

But any, reviews, I always, like, start off by saying, " This is a primary pump.

This is a secondary pump." So before you order through insurance, definitely, look at my reviews page to see which ones they are so that you're not wasting your free pump.

Okay.

Go look at her stuff- Yeah … you guys, and then you'll be able to figure it out Yeah.

With a little detective

work.

No, no.

Getting…

Well, like, you don't have to do detective work.

I, like, sa- Right … I tell you straight up.

I, like, say- Yeah … like, "Get this one." Yeah.

No, I literally just say, like, "Get this one." Like, I… Like, that's the thing.

Like, When you come to me, like, I don't want you to have to do detective work.

Like, I wanna tell you what it is that you should do.

I just don't wanna, like, tell you the name of it because someone's listening to this in six months and it's a different one, they're gonna be mad that they, that they listened to- Yeah … this podcast and, like, did that.

So I like to be very aware that moms listen to this at different times.

So it's very important to just know that you're getting one that's a primary pump that has…

I mean, this is gonna be… This is gonna sound like… I don't like to say, like, jargon, you know what I'm saying?

But, like, it's a cycle, that it's a vacuum.

That's stuff that we will tell you, and we will very simply just say, "Get this one."

Yeah.

That's what I say.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's important because I, and I'll be honest, I love a wearable pump.

Yeah.

But I was not an exclusive pumper.

Right.

So if it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna pump once today to," we can talk about this-

Yeah

… Lo: build a little freezer stash or something- Yeah … like, it was perfect.

It got my- Exactly.

But- I mean, I'm not a huge over supplier

No, but exactly.

Yeah.

But you're… But exactly what you said, one or two times a day.

Whether the other seven times you're nursing or whether the other seven times you're using a primary pump, that's fine.

Your primary method of emptying your breasts could be nursing or a primary pump, but the wearable should really only be one to two times a day.

And yes, by the way, guys, there will be someone that's listened to this and says, "I get exactly the same amount with my wearable as I do with my primary," and I say, "Fantastic."

Like, my job is to make sure that the 80 to 90% of people have the information, and if you are in that small percentage of people who everything is going well or, you know, the wearable pump works for you, I am so happy.

You know, if someone comes to me and we're on a consult and I'll say, like, "This is really the best thing to do," and they'll say, " But I really don't wanna do that.

I wanna do X, Y, and Z," I say, " Okay, so let's try to find a way to make it work." And I'll tell them, like, if you don't wanna wake up in the middle of the night to empty your breasts, you might not make as much milk.

If you don't care, I don't care.

Like, I'm here to make this work for whatever works for you.

That's your g- I always say, like, your goal is my goal.

That's what I say

It's funny you just brought up the people who get the same amount from a wearable as they would- Yeah … more of a primary, 'cause that's me.

That's great.

No, that's amazing.

I've, like, tested it before.

Yeah, great.

But I know that, and when I do my own breastfeeding, pumping education, I still am like, "This is not what you should spend your money on first."

Yeah.

" Lo: This is not what you should plan on using multiple times a day." Like, I, I teach the same thing- Oh,

totally.

Yeah

… Lo: because I know that I'm in the minority.

And, and it's a money decision too, like you said.

Like, I don't want someone getting some fancy wearable pump and then turns out they need something else-

Yeah

to really effectively empty themselves six times a day- Yeah … and now they have to go s- pay out of pocket for it.

Exactly.

So it's better to do- Exactly … exactly what you laid out.

Yeah.

But I always laugh 'cause I'm like, "Hmm, I'm not the normal over

here." Yeah.

And then, and that's honestly fine.

Like, there are so many things that I don't practice what I preach, but that's because I know for sure things like I h- am a huge over-supplier.

I just have always made tons of milk.

Well, actually no, not with my first 'cause I didn't know what I was doing.

But with my second- … third, and fourth, I knew what I was doing at that point, and I made tons and tons of milk.

And I, like, I didn't necessarily have to go three hours.

I was very early able to go four hours.

I was able to drop my middle of the night pump at, like, seven to eight weeks.

I would never suggest that to someone that, you know, with a regular supply.

So that's also where it's really nice to get personalized feedback about what's going on in your journey and not get everything from Instagram.

Because Instagram is amazing, but they are talking to the masses.

And I don't know if you've seen this, but sometimes I look at someone's post and I'm just like, "Oh my God." Like, that is the worst advice I've ever seen.

And, like, I, I'm not gonna start a, I'm not gonna start drama.

I'm not gonna, like, comment on their post.

I'm not gonna, like, start a, a little Instagram war.

I just like… But I see people commenting, and I just get so… I'm like, "Oh my God," like, all these poor moms.

Like, how do I help them?

And I realize, like, this is just out of my hands.

I just have to do my own part and hope that they also find me, and, like, what I say will cancel that out because that is horrible advice.

Well,

I think that that is the frustration of… It's a, often, on social media, particularly if it's not a educator and let's say it's just a mom sharing, it's a personal experience that is so specific to them as well.

And so you can't apply it to the masses, but it's being sent out to the masses, right?

Yeah.

And so we… This c- can lead into that, like, freezer stash conversation, or what a healthy supply looks like, or how much you should actually expect when you pump.

And maybe, you know, Katie So-and-So pumps nine ounces every time and it looks good- Yeah … and, and, and, and you bought the pump she ha- And it's like- Yeah

that is her and her body, and it just doesn't apply to everybody.

But the way the platforms work is that it goes to everybody, right?

And so then as a consumer, being you the mom, like, you have- Yeah … to do this work of, like, "Okay, actually, let's just go back to foundations that I know are true or things that I have learned are true-"

Which is

very difficult

and know that that doesn't apply.

Oh, it's so hard.

Yeah, which is very hard.

It- With my first, I made, like, 27 ounces a day And I remember my mom was like, "Oh my God, that's amazing." And I was like, "No, it's not, Mom." Like, people on Instagram literally are making like 90 ounces.

Like this is nothing.

And in hindsight, 27 was a really nice amount of milk.

Like I was ba- I basically was fully able to feed him until the last two months, like my supply dropped and I just, I had no patience to get it back, so I ended up just switching to formula But like, looking back, like, I wasn't as proud of myself as I should have been for making 27 ounces.

And I- I'll have people, moms on consult, and I'll say, like, I'll say, like, "Let's take, take a minute to realize how incredible that is that you're making, like, you know, 30 ounces, 25 ounces."

They'll be like, "What are you talking about?

That's not good at all." And I'm like, "Yes, it is.

The average baby eats 24 to 36 ounces in a day, so you're falling in that category, which is fantastic." And even for the moms that are making 10 ounces, 15 ounces, 20 ounces, okay, so your baby is getting one bottle of formula, two bottles of formula.

You're still giving 50, 60, 70% breast milk, and then you're supplementing with what the baby needs.

Like, you should be so proud of yourself.

And I think a lot of moms forget that because of what they see on social media.

So that's one of the first things that we do on a consult when that happens.

Because I'll see moms, like they look defeated.

And I'm like, "Hold on," like, "let's take a minute here and just acknowledge how hard you're working and how amazing you are." Because, not on purpose, like they just don't always hear that from their husbands or from their, you know, their spouses or people with them.

They just, they don't get it.

And like, you know, I feel like it's being portrayed really well on a lot of TV shows these days, which makes me happy, is like the husband's like, "No, you're doing great." Like, "Just give formula." And the wife's like, "You don't get it.

You don't freaking get it." And like, and I feel for that mom so much.

Like, the husband's trying.

We know he's trying.

But they could be saying all the right things, but coming from someone that can't lactate, it doesn't work for us.

We just don't want to hear it.

So it's nothing we can do, you know?

Yeah.

That's very true.

Well, that, that then is like, okay, that's why we go get on social media and find people who get it.

Right.

Yeah.

But then we have to be careful about what we are finding.

Exactly.

So,

ugh.

Listen,

there's no, there's no, there's no perfect.

There's no perfect because you- Yeah … then you could say like, "Okay, don't go on social media, just book a consultation with someone." But like, what if you book a consultation with the wrong person and that person is really bad?

Like, I've had that also.

Listen, it, that's how life is.

Like, I- I say also like gut feeling is really big.

People will ask me how, like, a- another way to prepare for breastfeeding, and I'll tell them, " Try to find someone." I say, "Get a recommendation and not like, like I said, your sister's cousin's friend's mother.

Like, get someone that's someone that you know, your good friend, your sister, has used and had a positive experience with.

And even after that, go off of vibes." I had someone that, that came highly recommended, and I thought she was terrible.

And I literally right away went and I paid for someone else, who in hindsight wasn't great either.

But that's my first journey and why it went so terribly.

I finally, for my fourth journey, had an incredible lactation consultant, and it completely changed everything for me.

So I always say like, " Go off of vibes." I even say like when people are booking with me, I'm Listen to come, a couple of my stories.

If I agitate you, do not book with me.

Find someone else." Like, and that's okay.

There's plenty of different people who work with, you know, who work with people.

And you just want to find someone that really just you vibe with, that seemingly they know what they're talking about.

Yeah.

Same as birth, right?

Yeah.

The… Well, I mean, like Jen Hamilton's book just came out, Birth Vibes, but it's like all about the vibe, right?

What vibe can you create?

What vibe are they bringing?

Yeah.

And that applies in this postpartum breastfeeding-

Absolutely

… Lo: consult- tations conversation too, for sure.

Yeah.

100%.

Okay.

I know we kind of been on social media, but I actually wanna ask one question about it specifically.

What is maybe one thing you see keep showing up consistently on social media that just, like, drives you crazy, specific to kind of this pumping conversation- Yeah … where you're like, "God, I wish that rhetoric would just get out of here."

Yeah.

The main thing I would say are, like, the targeted ads for the brownies, and, like, the supplements.

They're so expensive, and they don't work.

And, like, even if someone says that they do work, they don't work even a tiny bit close to as much as what you can actually hear, like, methods that work.

So I'll have moms that come and they'll say, like- Oh, I, you know, I've been… And, but these supplements are, like, $20 a week because you have to take, like, two a day, and they'll be like, " I've been doing this for six months," and we're, like, adding that up.

It's, like, hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

And it's like, oh, but my phalanges are probably wrong, and I'm just like… So the, the main thing is, like, the brownies are not what's going to get you.

I mean, please eat the brownies if you want them.

Like, I am in full support of the brownies, obviously.

But if you actually want to increase your supply or, like, know what you're doing and create a supply, the main thing you wanna do is actually get help.

So not the brownies and the supplements are not what's gonna do it for you.

They're not.

And then I- Mm … I'll, I'll just throw one more in there, is, like, the massive freezer stash.

You don't need a massive freezer stash.

I will also say on the other side, because everyone always says you don't need it, that I I pumped for, I just stopped weaning literally, actually, last week at 13 months, but my son is gonna get probably 16 months of breast milk, which I really am very happy about, and that's because I have a freezer stash.

So do you need it?

No, he could be on cow's milk.

There are reasons for it if you want to.

With my other kids, I actually stopped breastfeeding, like, s- I stopped pumping early, at, like, 10 months, and was able to continue, to give them for after.

So there's places for it for those that want it, but it's not necessary.

That shouldn't be your goal.

Your goal doesn't need that.

Like, I'll have moms that are like, "I'm giving a bottle of formula to put in ba- a bag of milk in the freezer."

And I literally am like, "What are you doing?"

What?

Yeah.

And they're like, "Well," and I'm like… And I literally will be like, "Why?" And they'll look at me, and, like, I don't wanna make them feel stupid, so I'm just like, "No, like, just explain to me.

Like, I wanna, like, we're here to talk this through.

Like, tell me why."

And she's like, " I just thought I should have a free- a freezer stash." And I was like, "Well, why are you feeding the freezer?

Feed the baby." You know?

Yeah.

And they, so that's, those are probably my two main things that have been since the old of time that we've seen.

Yeah.

Freezer stash is definitely one of mine, too.

It drives me crazy.

Yeah.

Although I appreciate you acknowledging the nuance of, like, it is okay to want one.

Yeah.

I want an extra in the freezer.

Yeah.

And I think sometimes someone can swing really hard this other direction and be like, "If you make enough for your baby, stop wanting more. You shouldn't-" Yeah.

don't even worry about it.

If you make exactly 28 and that's what they get, you're doing great." And that's true.

Yeah.

If your body is making what your baby needs, like, your body's doing its job.

But I think let's acknowledge the reality of, like, some of us would love to have an extra 50 ounces in the freezer, too.

Yeah.

And if that's possible for us, well, could you also help me achieve that as well?

You know?

And, and, and acknowledging- Yeah … we're allowed to want a little extra, too, and not- Yeah … don't get lost in the weeds about it, but also you're allowed to want a little extra, and just kind of dancing that line.

I think that's where and sometimes people, I mean, no one's ever actually come at me and for saying this, I always just, like, am on the lookout, that, you know, we're so careful to make sure that all moms are always feeling included, which is important, that they're always feeling validated and everyone's always, always feeling good, that we in a way are invalidating sometimes to other moms.

Like, it is okay to want a freezer stash.

A question that I will ask, and I'll be like- Okay, so you're making oversupply.

Like, do you want that?

Like, if you want it, let me tell you how to keep it.

And if you don't want it, let me tell you how to get rid of it.

But it's okay to want it.

And, you know, and like for moms that, are like, "I don't want formula, I don't want formula-" on Instagram, you know, we'll say like, and, and it is okay.

Obviously, like I gave my kids formula, like you do what you have to do.

But for the moms that are like, "I really don't want it," I'm not gonna sit here and convince them unless they're, they aren't making enough milk.

Like I have a mom that like really wasn't making enough milk, and she was losing her mind from it.

And I'm like, "Listen, we need to have a conversation because I know what you want, but your baby needs to be fed.

So tell me right now if you wanna get formula or you wanna get donor milk because you cannot just not feed the baby for your own, for, for your own goals, 'cause that's not gonna be okay." But for moms who, you know, are able to make enough or whatever it is, and like, you know, their moms, their mother-in-laws are convincing them like, "It's fine to give a little formula."

Like, you know, moms who are triple feeding, right?

Like they're, they're triple feeding, which I al- also call hell on earth because that's what it is.

It's where you are starting off with nursing, then the baby isn't able to like get the milk out or like you don't have enough milk, whatever.

For some reason it's not enough, so you give the baby a bottle.

But then remember, like I said before, anytime the baby gets a bottle, you have to pump.

So you're doing all three of these things every single three hours, hence the term hell on earth.

So a lot of times when people start going down that path people will tell them, "Just give formula." And in fact, a lot of moms with the proper support can get through triple feeding in two or three weeks and then get back to the breast or decide to pump, whatever it is.

And you don't have to incorporate formula at all, and there's nothing wrong with me saying that you don't need to do formula.

Let's, let's get you getting as much breast milk as you can for the baby.

And like, that's also okay, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny you brought up triple feeding.

I had Kyle Lacey on a while ago.

She's Low Supply Mom and she mentioned- I love her.

Yes … yeah, she's great.

She's great.

She's great.

Episode 53 if anyone wants to listen to it.

Yeah, she's fantastic.

She's awesome.

I've known her-

But she brought

up- … she's also been here since like 2020.

She's OG also.

Yes.

She's great.

Yes.

Another, another COVID person like us.

Yeah,

exactly.

But she brought up triple feeding and it was the same thing, like it sucks so bad, and if anyone thinks you should be doing it beyond like two or three weeks, that's not a plan.

Yeah.

Yeah Like this is not something that we do for a long time.

So that's an extra reminder for all of you.

Yes.

Like triple feeding is not something that's a long-term plan.

Exactly.

So if if you have a lactation consultant or someone who's not interrupting that plan if it's not working, you need some different support.

Exactly.

Like triple feeding is not- Yes … what we're gonna be doing for a long time.

It's not gonna work

long term.

Nope.

Absolutely not.

Okay.

Tamari, you have mentioned a few like different resources you have.

I would love to throw some of them in the show notes.

I'm gonna put that YouTube video about pump parts in the show notes.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Because I do think that's so valuable for people to just know what they're getting at when they open the box.

Yeah.

' Lo: Cause I always say open your pump before, get familiar with it, like know how it works so if you're using it on day four or night three-

Yeah

… Lo: you, you kinda know how to put this thing together and use it.

Yes.

It's clean and it's ready.

Absolutely.

So I'll do that video.

Any other resources?

I mean, you can remind us where people can find you.

What else do you have for us?

Yeah.

So I am @onewiththepump literally everywhere on, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Pinterest.

All the stuff, and then womanthatpump.com.

I just have tons of free stuff on there.

Any of, like, my really good informational videos, I put inside on my website for free, so the moms can just go there and, like, just mess around, milk temp- Mm

storing, freezing, just, like, get the basic, basic rundown of everything.

And then after that, we do have personalized help, which majority of moms do need, and it can be very helpful for you.

You can find that also on my website.

And then lastly, I have the ultimate pumping course, which just gives you… It's a massive database of very easily digestible, 'cause I, when I say massive, everyone's like, "Oh, no."

Easily digestible videos for postpartum moms for you to use as you need, and you will not be stressed about it.

And I have a coupon code, behold, for you guys, and I'll send that to you, Lil, also- Cool … for you to grab that as well for 15% off.

And we're just, we are here to help you.

Like, it, it's really difficult, and when you don't know what you're doing, it is 10 times more difficult than it needs to be when you are trying to do this on your own and you're trying to get all your information from Instagram, social, ChatGPT.

That's gonna make it a whole lot worse.

I will always ChatGPT my own questions to make sure they have not gotten what I, what I have to say, and they have not.

The other day, I asked Chat- I hope one day … I asked Chat something that they had gotten wrong prior, and it made me really angry, and I, and they now get it right.

But I was like, "I'm gonna check up on them and see if-" Yes.

That's so funny … "they're saying the right thing now, because I'm annoyed about it."

That's so funny.

Don't go to Chat.

Go somewhere else, guys.

No, don't.

Let us, let us help you, please.

Okay, last question that I ask everyone before they go, what is something in your life right now that's just bringing you a ton of joy?

Oh, good question.

It's being home with my baby.

Like I said before, very quickly, I used to be a teacher and I used to have to go back at eight weeks.

And my baby just turned one, and I've been home with him the whole time, and it is just, it's such a great experience.

It was just such a great motherhood experience to have, and I didn't have it with my three.

And I'm just very grateful to be, even though he's, you know, walking around making it a little difficult, but I just, I love him and I'm thankful that I could be home with him.

I'm glad you can too.

Yeah.

My fourth just turned two.

Oh.

And when they do start walking around and being a little busy, it's like- Yeah

"Oh, I'm not getting so much done anymore,

am

I?"

Yeah, no.

But it's so sweet to be with them.

Well, yeah, well now, now I have a babysitter, because I couldn't do both.

But it's nice.

Like, I just saw, like, on the camera, like, she took him for a walk while I'm sitting here doing a podcast.

Like, we all… It's great.

Like, we, we help out.

We do, we do together, you know?

That's awesome.

Which is awesome.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah.

Thanks so much for being here.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for listening to the Lo and Behold podcast.

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