This week Aaron Hedge and Val flew solo and learned how to use the KYRS sound board, and talked police accountability from a few different angles. The first story centers on death of Donald Hagle, who was killed by Spokane County Sheriff’s deputies in 2024. We delved into him sister’s ongoing quest for answers and transparency, the complicated legislative landscape around police accountability, and the efforts (and failures) to introduce new independent investigative and prosecutorial bodies at the state level.

In the second part, we covered this week’s Spokane Valley City Council discussions, including a proposed sales tax to fund more police officers and a resolution reaffirming the city’s desire to not be a Sanctuary City and desire for Valley police officers to help federal immigration officers deport people. Hedge shared with us the public’s sentiment to the somewhat opposing goals.

Relevant reading:

Deputies killed Donald Hegel a year ago. His sister is still looking for answers.

Spokane Valley wants to break state law and direct their cops to help ICE and Border Patrol

00:57 Discussing the Latest Story

01:43 Background on Police Accountability

03:54 Details of the Police Shooting and Aftermath

11:51 Legislation and Police Accountability Efforts

19:34 Current Legislative Proposals and Budget Issues

25:20 The Case of Donald Hagle

32:51 Spokane Valley’s Police Funding Proposal

38:24 Sanctuary City Resolution in Spokane Valley

42:19 Public Sentiment and Council Decisions 

Hey, this is Val.

2

That was my best impression of Luke.

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And now I'll do my best impression

of Aaron Sellers because this

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week Aaron Hedge and I flew solo

on the radio and even learned

5

how to use the KYRS soundboard.

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We talked about our coverage this week

that included police accountability

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from a lot of different angles.

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In the first story, we talked about a

sister's ongoing quest for transparency

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from the Spokane County prosecutor on a

police shooting that killed her brother.

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And how now failed legislation

could have helped provide another

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avenue for that transparency.

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Then we chatted about this week's wild

Spokane Valley City Council meeting

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where the council simultaneously said

they wanted their police to help federal

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immigration deportation efforts, and

they wanted to put a sales tax on

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the ballot to pay for more police.

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All that and more in

this week's free range.

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I'm Valerie oer.

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I'm with Range, and I'm here with

Aaron Hedge, who is also with

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Range, and we, how's it going?

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Are flying solo today?

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We just got trained by

Dana, our brilliant station.

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Guru guy.

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I don't, I don't know what your job

title is, but we just got trained

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on the board and now we know how

to use it, which is very exciting.

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Theoretically, we know how to

use it, but I feel very powerful.

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Yeah.

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So, Aaron Sellers is out today

dealing with some washing machine

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stuff and new homeowner stuff.

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New homeowner stuff.

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They're, they're 25.

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Mm-hmm.

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They bought a house.

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We're so proud of them.

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Yes, they're little Aaron growing up.

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So today we're gonna talk about

head hedges latest story and then

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another story in Spokane Valley that

kind of popped off on Tuesday night.

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So let's get started on the first one.

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We published it I don't even remember now.

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We published the story.

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Yeah, it was last night, last.

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This week's.

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Oh yeah, that was yesterday.

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Whoops.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So this story hedge was working on it

for a while about a man who was killed

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by Spokane County Sheriff's deputies

and how his sister is, going through

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this process, the grieving process,

and looking for answers of what

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happened when he was killed and hedge.

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What, first, let's start, like what

brought this story to your attention?

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So in around the turn of the year in

January, I was doing my, my first big

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story this year was about the city

Ombuds and how, and, and, and a report

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that they gave that that showed that

some folks in that there were some,

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some agencies within real investigative.

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Sorry, real quick,

what's the Ombuds thing?

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Sorry?

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The Ombuds?

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Mm-hmm.

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So the, the Office of the Ombuds mm-hmm.

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The Office of Police Ombuds is the, is

the title is basically it's a, it's a

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commission within the city of Spokane

that it kind of, it acts as like a

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bridge between communicating information

about just police accountability.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and they issue a report to

a public body that's appointed

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by the, by the city council.

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Mm-hmm.

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Called the Ombuds Commission.

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Okay.

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And the idea is that they, they bring

information that wouldn't otherwise

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be disclosed to the public mm-hmm.

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Out into the open.

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There's lots of restrictions around that.

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And they're, they, they.

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S they sit on a number of

the internal bodies mm-hmm.

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Of the Spokane Police Department.

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And their representatives bring

what information they can mm-hmm.

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And that information is negotiated

with the with the the police union.

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Mm-hmm.

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To, to the commission.

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And then it becomes a public document

and they, they present it to the

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commission at a public meeting and Okay.

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Idea.

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Is that, so it's, it's a method of

police accountability basically,

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or a sort of a layer of police

accountability for the city?

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Yeah.

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It's just like, well, I, I would

say more like transparency.

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Oh, okay.

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They don't have any, any authority

to to ask for prosecutions or

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investigations or anything like that.

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I see.

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But they just bring information

that normally wouldn't make it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like without the ombuds, that wouldn't

make it into the public's eye, into Okay.

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The light, basically.

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And while I was reporting on that, I met

a lot of police accountability activists.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and, and tho those,

those people included a number

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of family members mm-hmm.

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Of past victims of police violence in sp

in the city of Spokane and in the county.

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And one of those people was a

woman named Don Hale whose brother

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Donald had about a year ago.

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A year ago, last weekend.

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Mm-hmm.

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Had been in a standoff

with with a SWAT team.

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Mm-hmm.

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With the count, with the

county sheriff's office.

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And he was.

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They, they were trying to

execute a, a warrant mm-hmm.

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That was issued by Stevens County.

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Mm-hmm.

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And this happened in, in Deer Park.

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So it happened in Stevens County.

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Mm-hmm.

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The Stevens County Sheriff requested

help from Spokane County Sheriff.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that's why Spokane County was,

was there but he wasn't cooperating.

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Mm-hmm.

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He wouldn't come out of the house.

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He, they, they were

there for several hours.

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I think it was about four hours.

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And eventually they they

wanted to get him out.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so, and he was refusing, and

they, they knew that he had an

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object that was shaped like a gun.

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They knew that it was either,

it was either a gun or it

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was a cigarette lighter.

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Mm-hmm.

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It was a cigarette lighter.

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And they fired they, they, they

fired chemical gases into the house

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and that, that didn't bring him out.

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They fired a flash bang

grenade into the house.

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Mm-hmm.

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That also did not bring him out.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so several.

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Several deputies with

the SWAT team mm-hmm.

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Entered the house and three of

them shot shot rounds at him.

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And they, they those are,

those are fatal gun wounds.

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And then they sent a, a dog

in to make contact with him.

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They weren't sure if he was alive or not.

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Mm-hmm.

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And there was just a lot of and, and Don

Don was on the scene for all of this.

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Mm-hmm.

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His sister.

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Yeah.

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His sister was, was there and

afterwards she went into that a,

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after they released the scene mm-hmm.

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There was, there was a long investigation

that, that lasted the entire night.

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And the next morning after they released

the scene, she went into the house

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and started picking up things that she

thought the police should have picked up.

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Mm-hmm.

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Including as evidence.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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She saw it as evidence.

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Mm-hmm.

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There was a, there was a,

a bullet shell casing that.

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They hadn't been able to find

that was in a laundry basket.

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Mm-hmm.

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There was, there were several

pieces of Donald's skull on mm-hmm.

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On, on the floor.

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It was a really gruesome scene and mm-hmm.

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And she obviously was traumatized by it.

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Mm-hmm.

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But she also, like, she, she saw a lot

of this, this left behind evidence as a

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sign of like an incomplete investigation.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we didn't wanna

weigh in on any of that.

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Mm-hmm.

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But in the aftermath of all of this

she, she, she was trying to do her own

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kind of citizen's investigation mm-hmm.

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Of the case to figure out,

she, she wants to know what

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really happened to her brother.

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Mm-hmm.

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And in November the.

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Independent investigative body

that investigated the scene,

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turned their results mm-hmm.

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Over to the, the county

prosecutor, Larry Haskell.

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Mm-hmm.

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And he issued a, actually, I think

they turned that over in October.

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Mm-hmm.

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And he issued a decision in

in November saying that the,

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the killing was justified.

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Larry Haskell is famous for never

having found police killing unjustified.

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He's never prosecuted a police killing.

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Which is an interesting fact

in the context of Spokane being

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one of the most violent Yeah.

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Police forces or environments

in, in the entire country.

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It's ranked number three in

police departments nationwide.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that's, that's when

Don's like interactions with

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the county became mm-hmm.

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Just like, I mean, from,

from her perspective, just.

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She felt the county wasn't being

forthcoming about the information.

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Mm-hmm.

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She asked to see the body cam footage

and sheriff John Knowles said that she

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could come to his office and watch it.

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Mm-hmm.

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With him, she couldn't

bring anybody with her.

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And she didn't, she

didn't like that setup.

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Mm-hmm.

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So she mm-hmm.

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She declined to do that.

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And, but her main, her main efforts

had been trying to get mm-hmm.

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The, the county prosecutor Larry

Haskell to, to talk to her, just

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to sit down with her and have a

conversation about like how he came

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to the conclusions that he came to.

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And he, there's a report Yeah.

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That, that he issued that

explains his rationale.

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But she just, she wants

to hear it from him.

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She wants to like, sit

down with him mm-hmm.

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And, and look in the eye.

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And he has, sorry, real quick.

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So we have, a grieving sister mm-hmm.

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Who's lost her brother, her brother

was in trouble and he was facing a

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charge for a pretty heinous crime.

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And but the, I guess the fact of the

matter is that when they were trying to

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get him to come in on his warrant, at

some point in time they decided to go

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into that trailer house and open fire and.

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Whether or not it would

actually bring him in alive.

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And so I always this story was really

interesting to edit because, we're

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like, it, it's brought up a lot

of complicated feelings about like

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who gets sympathy, in our society.

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And if you read the story, you'll

see, the charge it was for the warrant

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was for a child sexual assault.

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But the fact is also that

everybody has the right to a trial.

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And to, he was not convicted yet of that.

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So I, I wanna bring that to the forefront

because it's it was a big topic in our

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newsroom yesterday, when we're editing and

getting the story up was like, how do we.

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Present this story, like how, how

do we present this story with all

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the facts, but, and not shy away

from the scary and bad facts too.

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And so I kinda wanna ask you hedge,

like, before we get more deeper into

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the, like, legislation and things like

that, that this story ties to when

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Don approached you, like how did she

approach you, I guess, about this story?

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Well, she she did, I approached her.

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Okay.

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She, she was, she was at a, she was

at a, I, I met her at a protest.

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Um mm-hmm.

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That was, that kind of stemmed

from another person's loved

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one having been killed mm-hmm.

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By Spokane Police, and it's a

pretty tight knit community.

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Mm-hmm.

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They, they hold regular protests

on the day of the month that

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their loved one was killed.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, so Don holds one for Donald on

the 29th of every month that he was,

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he was killed on March 29th, 2024.

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And.

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There, there's another person who

has been a police accountability

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activist for a long time mm-hmm.

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In Spokane.

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Her name is Debbie Novak.

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Her son David was killed

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Mm-hmm.

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I, I believe that protest takes

place on the seventh of the month,

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but I would need to check my notes.

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But she Don was at Debbie's, the,

the protest for, for Debbie's son.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they, they go to

each other's protests.

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Yeah.

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There's a lot of solidarity.

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Mm-hmm.

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And

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I, I, I, I learned a little bit

about Donald's case that day.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I went back and after I

wrote my first story, I, I, I

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read more about it and I mm-hmm.

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I became interested and so I went

to, to a, a a subsequent protest.

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Mm-hmm.

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One, one for Donald.

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Mm-hmm.

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And interviewed Dawn about it, and

she, she kind of like laid out all of

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like, just her experiences with the

Spokane County Prosecutor's Office.

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And yeah, it was just like, it was really,

it was really striking that, that she

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was pouring all this energy into, into

trying to like, just find some clarity

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about what happened to her brother.

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She also wants justice but I just found

it to be a really compelling story.

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Yeah.

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And so, so I went, I guess,

I guess I went to her.

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She didn't approach me about it.

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She's, she's, she's a pretty quiet woman.

282

Mm-hmm.

283

She's, she's not very like.

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She, she lives in Ford and

she runs a, a couple of small

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businesses with her husband.

286

Mm-hmm.

287

She's she's just a regular person.

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Yeah.

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And she never thought that she was

gonna have to do something like this.

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Yeah.

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And that's why the story kind

of resonated with me, I guess.

292

Mm-hmm.

293

And I I appreciated how the story

tied in with, some legislation

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at Washington State legislation

that is dead now and did not pass.

295

But can you tell me a little bit

about, I think there was four

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pieces of legislation mm-hmm.

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That would would have provided possibly

a, another avenue for Dawn to go

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down to get some clarity on this.

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But other than prosecutor

Larry Haskell, right.

300

Yeah, so probably need

to like yeah, sorry.

301

We might have to No, no, it's

like, yeah, there's a lot of like

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complicated like context to this.

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So there was, there was a lot of

police accountability, uh mm-hmm.

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Rules that were set in in

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Mm-hmm.

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It was, those were like watershed years

for police accountability in Washington.

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And they, they made a, like the

ACT activists who are pushing for

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police accountability made a lot

of progress during those years.

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Mm-hmm.

310

And one of the most significant things

that that, that kind of like, like slate

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of legislation did, was it, it, it created

this thing at the state level called the

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Office of Independent Investigations.

313

Mm-hmm.

314

And that was basically a body that

could take, deadly uses of force by

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police in any agency in Washington.

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And they can assign, they, they

can assign an, an investigator

317

to go look into that case mm-hmm.

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And figure out and make a determination

whether it needs to be prosecuted.

319

This, this was a really,

like, important step.

320

Mm-hmm.

321

But it didn't, it didn't, it didn't

get to the place where a lot of

322

police accountabilities mm-hmm.

323

Think it should, because when they

issue a recommendation about whether

324

a case should be prosecuted mm-hmm.

325

It goes through a process.

326

I think it hits the ags office,

but eventually it ends up in the

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hands of the local prosecutor.

328

So any, any investigation mm-hmm.

329

Of deadly use of force in Spokane

County would come back to Larry Haskell.

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Right.

331

Who again, has never found Right.

332

A case worth prosecuting.

333

And so it's, it's likely that, like.

334

That would, it would just

go in this big mm-hmm.

335

Loop and just end up right

back where it started.

336

Yeah.

337

And nothing would happen because

the statewide office does not

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have the authority to prosecute.

339

Correct.

340

It has the authority to investigate.

341

Yes.

342

And so, so the, the piece of

the law that, or the the bill

343

that I was interested in mm-hmm.

344

Is it, it would create a, another

body not, not tangential, but just

345

like adjacent to the Office of

Independent Investigations called the

346

Office of Independent Prosecutions.

347

Hmm.

348

And that office would be able

to do its own prosecution.

349

It would employ lawyers who could, who

could go in and, and li litigate a case

350

if they felt that it, it warranted it.

351

Mm-hmm.

352

And I was trying to figure out,

like, I really wanted to write

353

about, dawn's kind of like saga.

354

Mm-hmm.

355

But I couldn't figure out a way to do it.

356

But when this, when this legislation

died and died in February I, I

357

felt like that was, I mean, that,

that's the thing that she wants.

358

Mm-hmm.

359

She wants this other avenue where she can

like, try to figure out what happened to

360

her brother and if necessary, bring him.

361

Mm-hmm.

362

Bring him some justice.

363

Has she has she ever tried to

get the Office of Independent

364

Investigations in into this case?

365

I, I know that they've only

done like two or three cases

366

since they started, but yeah.

367

So that office is it's, it's in a, it

is still in a really primitive state.

368

Mm-hmm.

369

It was, it was formed in 2021.

370

And it's, it's, it's really building

some it's, it's building up.

371

It's, it's, it is in the middle

of it's first two investigations.

372

Those are both on the west side.

373

Mm-hmm.

374

And it's, and it's looking, it's

doing preliminary investigations

375

into several other cases, and

one of them is in Spokane County.

376

It's dated Nova David Novak's case.

377

I don't know, I, I, I don't know

the answer to that question.

378

I don't if Don has reached out to the

Office of Independent Investigations

379

but they, they could investigate Yeah.

380

Donald's case.

381

Right.

382

But then they would never

be able to prosecute.

383

No, they wouldn't.

384

But I mean, in Don's case, like

she doesn't, I don't know if

385

she's necessarily looking for a

prosecution, she wants answers.

386

Is is that accurate or, or not?

387

Yeah.

388

No, no.

389

I mean, yeah.

390

I think that's the first thing she wants.

391

Yeah.

392

She wants answers.

393

Mm-hmm.

394

And she, she doesn't, she doesn't

wanna see anyone prosecuted if mm-hmm.

395

If the, if the facts

don't, don't lead to it.

396

Right.

397

Or don't warrant a

prosecution, but mm-hmm.

398

She, she, she wants the answers.

399

Mm-hmm.

400

And the office of Independent.

401

Investigations could

ostensibly provide mm-hmm.

402

Some of those answers.

403

Yeah.

404

But if it, if it reasoned that mm-hmm.

405

The, the case needed to be prosecuted

and that the shooting was not mm-hmm.

406

Justified the case would come

Right, right back to Larry Haskell.

407

That would be an interesting, I'm

really curious about what happens in

408

the Novak case, because yeah, it would

just be a test of this new system.

409

Yeah.

410

Or office.

411

And you, you might not know the answer to

this question but it just occurred to me,

412

do you know why in the legislation for

the Office of Independent Investigations,

413

why they didn't also include an office

of prosecution or prosecution in that?

414

Because I feel like those

kind of go together.

415

But they separated them well.

416

I mean there, there was, there was

417

that would've created an officer.

418

Oh, so there was like a twin

legis legislation situation?

419

Yeah.

420

So the so there's been an independent

prosecutor proposed for the

421

last four legislative sessions.

422

Wow.

423

And has died each time for

different, for different reasons.

424

And they're a little bit in the weeds,

like, in, in previous proposals it

425

didn't really have a home because

attorney then Attorney General Ferguson

426

felt like it would be a conflict of

interest for for the office to be

427

housed within the department of, or

the the, the ags office and oh, and.

428

At the same time.

429

So, so, so it, it would've had

to have been created under,

430

under the office of the governor.

431

Okay.

432

And at the same time former gov Governor

Insley felt the same way, that it would've

433

been a conflict of interest for it to

be housed under the governor's office.

434

So they, that that was one of

the things that, that kind of

435

like stopped it from happening.

436

There's also, there's also like,

and I've reported on this a little

437

bit in other contexts mm-hmm.

438

But there were also like pretty

heavy fiscal notes attached mm-hmm.

439

To, to these bills.

440

Agencies said that they

would cost a lot of money.

441

Mm-hmm.

442

They've whittled that, that down a lot.

443

Like the, the people

proposing the writing, the

444

legislation, the groups mm-hmm.

445

Have like tried to lessen the

costs and they, they've done it.

446

I think, I think in previous years

it would've, the fiscal notes

447

were, were for like $9 million.

448

This year it was for $3.5

449

million, which is a

pretty dramatic reduction.

450

But.

451

So, so this year it died in

February because now legislators

452

are even more hawkish mm-hmm.

453

About the, the budget and there's

all kinds of stuff happening

454

with the budget right now.

455

Mm-hmm.

456

The de like different groups of

Democrats have proposals to increased

457

taxes on wealthy people in Washington.

458

Mm-hmm.

459

But they're fighting about it.

460

Right.

461

And, and they don't, like, there isn't

really a clear path out of Washington's

462

really dire budget situation.

463

Right.

464

There's $12 million hole in

the budget by some estimates.

465

I mean, there's a way out,

but they don't wanna take it.

466

Yeah.

467

Well, I mean, nobody, nobody feels like,

the proposals that exist are Right.

468

Are the correct ones.

469

So.

470

So these, these bills are dying mm-hmm.

471

In the context of lawmakers

not wanting to spend Right.

472

More money.

473

And then on the flip side, we

have a bill that's still sailing

474

through legislation right now.

475

You can people are still able

to speak out for, against it

476

and contact their legislators.

477

Which bill is that?

478

It's like HB 2015, right?

479

That's right.

480

Yeah.

481

So there's, there's a

little bit of irony here.

482

Mm-hmm.

483

There's, there's a bill and, and

Governor Ferguson now Governor

484

Ferguson campaigned on this.

485

He said that he was gonna be

able to establish a fund mm-hmm.

486

Of a hundred million dollars at the

state, just a grant fund for local

487

governments to hire new police.

488

And that original proposal was was.

489

Kind of like couched in, in

a bill called an SB 50 60.

490

Mm-hmm.

491

And it, that, that one, that bill died.

492

Mm-hmm.

493

But then they, they created a new

bill legislators in the house,

494

created a, a new bill that, that

establishes a much smaller fund.

495

Mm-hmm.

496

It's, it's around $15 million between

now and 20 30, 20 31, I think.

497

Mm-hmm.

498

But it also allows local, it, it

creates like special provisions

499

for local governments to create

sales taxes, to hire new police.

500

So just to be clear and I don't think

we like hashed it out in the story,

501

but this bill, which is 2015, right?

502

Yes.

503

Okay.

504

This one, is it actually allocating that

$15 million or is it just saying we can

505

provide up or up to $15 million can be.

506

Created by a new sales tax or

whatever, local sales taxes.

507

Like, how does that work out?

508

No, the 15, yeah, the $15 million

would be established in a, in a,

509

oh, in a grant fund from the states.

510

Oh.

511

So, and it's a lot less than the,

than the 100 million that, that

512

Governor Ferguson campaigned on.

513

I see.

514

And in addition to that, it allows okay.

515

It allows local governments

to, so in the context, sorry.

516

It's allowed the whole local

governments to do a sales tax, right.

517

To pro, yeah.

518

Propose new taxes.

519

Yeah.

520

In the context of the budget deficit,

where is this 15 million coming from?

521

It, I mean, the, the lawmakers are

gonna have to allocate it in the budget.

522

I don't know exactly.

523

Yeah.

524

Sorry.

525

I'm like putting you in the hot seat.

526

I don't know.

527

Well, it, that's all in flux right now.

528

Yeah, because they're, they're, they're

crafting their budget proposals right now.

529

Okay.

530

And, and they're, they're debating them.

531

And it's still not clear whether this,

this bill will pass and be signed.

532

Mm-hmm.

533

But it's looking pretty good.

534

It's sailing through committees.

535

Yeah.

536

I think it was, I think it

had a hearing in the Ways and

537

Means committee in the Senate.

538

Right.

539

So, and that's like the last stop

before it gets signed, I think.

540

Right.

541

Or before it gets debated

on the floor of the Senate.

542

Yeah.

543

And it'll, I, I mean, I think that,

I think that most lawmakers that I've

544

spoke to seem pretty helpful for it.

545

They, they think it's gonna pass.

546

So on the one hand we have these

pieces of accountability legislation.

547

Mm-hmm.

548

And we should be clear, I, I

spoke with Governor Ferguson's.

549

Mm-hmm.

550

PIO, and she told me that Governor

First Ferguson also supported

551

the accountability legislation.

552

Mm-hmm.

553

But those bills died because mm-hmm.

554

The state didn't have enough money to

pay for them, and this other funding

555

bill is probably gonna, it, it seems

like it's, it's doing well right now.

556

I, I don't wanna predict

whether it's gonna be signed

557

and become law, but mm-hmm.

558

It, it's, it's, it's doing a

lot better than the other bills.

559

Yeah.

560

I, it's interesting, I I'm interested

in what our legislators are saying,

561

to rationalize that thing Well, and,

and, and there's nuance to this bill.

562

Mm-hmm.

563

It's, it doesn't, it doesn't just, it

doesn't just hire new police officers.

564

It also hires like behavioral health Okay.

565

Professionals and people who aren't

necessarily cops to go out and

566

respond to, to bad situations.

567

And every legislator that

I, that I talk to mm-hmm.

568

Says that those new positions

need to be, need to be hired

569

because police need mm-hmm.

570

It shouldn't, it shouldn't always

just be cops going out and responding.

571

That's fair to every mental health crisis.

572

Yeah.

573

It should, it should be.

574

Other professionals too.

575

Aaron Sellers I think last year had

did a ride along with the d blanking

576

on the name, but the behavioral,

I think it's the BRU, the Yeah.

577

B or the BHU, the Behavioral Health Unit.

578

Something like that.

579

Yeah.

580

Okay.

581

They did a, a ride along with them and,

experienced a day of, of, responding to

582

people in mental health crisis mm-hmm.

583

Who were in public and who

would've otherwise had a

584

police officer respond to them.

585

And that, that's been a pretty

effective program in Spokane.

586

It's just interesting that this

legislation and we'd, we'd have to look at

587

it more of just like, what's the ratio of,

at adding behavioral health positions to.

588

And cops like, you know what, what's

the ratio that this money's providing?

589

And, and it would, it would,

it would depend on, on what

590

the cities and counties Oh.

591

And local agencies propose.

592

Interesting.

593

Like it's, they, it's what they want.

594

So right now I see Spokane Valley is

trying to create a tax to hire mm-hmm.

595

Specific numbers of

different kinds of police.

596

Most of them are patrol officers.

597

Okay.

598

But it just, like, it depends on

a, on an analysis of what that

599

local government would need.

600

And that would probably

be in a grant application.

601

Okay.

602

That makes sense.

603

So it's not just, here's 15

million to hire more police.

604

It's, these cities and counties have to

apply to the state to get a grant to.

605

Hire more police or whatever.

606

That's right.

607

That's interesting.

608

I always find our granting system

wild that things aren't just funded.

609

That like cities have to apply for grants.

610

I, I find it interesting.

611

It's a, it's a rigorous process.

612

Yeah.

613

Long process.

614

So back to this, the

case of Don Donald Hale.

615

What's the, the biggest key takeaway I

guess, that you can, like, that you, that

616

affected you most I, while reporting this?

617

Well, I think there's all

this wrangling about, what the

618

state is gonna fund mm-hmm.

619

And what it isn't and what the priorities

are and, and are we being fair to police?

620

And I spoke with Debbie Novak for

this story, and she told me that

621

eventually it's gonna have to be about

not, it's gonna have to not be about

622

the police, it's gonna have to be

about the families that are mm-hmm.

623

That are grieving their loved one.

624

That quote was really powerful to me.

625

Yeah.

626

And I think that like, there's,

there's all this really complicated

627

stuff happening, happening in

a legislature that a lot of

628

people, it's, it's hard to follow.

629

It's hard for me to

follow, and I'm a reporter.

630

Like it's my job to follow that stuff.

631

And people like Don Hagel are just like

632

tapping their feet.

633

Mm-hmm.

634

I mean, and sorry, that's probably like,

I don't wanna trivialize it, but mm-hmm.

635

Like she doesn't know what's going on.

636

And, and she feels, her case is

interesting because she feels like a

637

pretty high level of urgency to figure

out what happened to her brother.

638

She's the only person in her family with

the wherewithal to investigate this.

639

Mm-hmm.

640

She's in really bad health.

641

She has a heart condition and she's

going in for a pretty invasive surgery

642

in, at the end of May she's either going

to have a stint placed in her heart.

643

Mm-hmm.

644

And if it's bad enough,

they'll do a bypass.

645

She doesn't know if she's gonna have

the energy to do this after, after that.

646

She doesn't know what life

is gonna be like after that.

647

And so she feels like she needs to

figure this out just to know, just

648

so her family can know what happens.

649

Yeah.

650

And.

651

It might not happen.

652

She might not be able to.

653

Yeah.

654

And it's, it's a complicated

process to follow.

655

We were digging through court records and,

digging through different court records

656

of Spokane County and Stevens County,

and they both have different systems.

657

It was a wild scene in

the news room yesterday.

658

Aaron Sellers and Val were just

like going at all these records.

659

Yeah.

660

And it was just like trying to build a

narrative and figured out what happened.

661

Yeah.

662

To, to Donald in the, in the

lead up to his, because we

663

were trying to figure out Yeah.

664

And, and we talk about it in the story.

665

Sorry, I'm gonna get all,

I wish I had the timeline.

666

I may wrote down.

667

Yeah.

668

About three years prior in 2019 or 2018.

669

It was, it was five.

670

It was five years.

671

Five years prior.

672

It was 2019.

673

Yeah.

674

Right.

675

So 2019 Donald Hale had a standoff

with police before this happened.

676

Before.

677

Yeah.

678

Again, they thought he, one of the,

one of the same deputies who killed him

679

was involved in that standoff as well.

680

Yes.

681

And so Travis West, they also

thought he had a weapon and it

682

also ended up not being a weapon.

683

During that time, and, and they

were trying to bring him in on the

684

warrant for the same charge that they

were bringing him in for this time.

685

And so, they managed to bring him in, they

did smoke grenades and all that stuff.

686

Yep.

687

And they, they brought him in and we

were trying to figure out, well, how

688

did he get out of jail if they, how,

689

to 2024 and dying again at the hands

of the police for the same warrant?

690

The same charge?

691

And we, we dug through court records

and found out that basically when he was

692

arrested the first time in 2019 for this

warrant after his first standoff, yeah.

693

It was a standoff and they brought

him in and he was also charged with in

694

relation to that standoff with like.

695

Resisting arrest or something like that.

696

Right.

697

Criminal mischief.

698

Criminal mischief.

699

And he had had, like, he'd gotten

into a, a physical fight mm-hmm.

700

With one of the officers.

701

Okay.

702

And he pleaded guilty to that.

703

Right.

704

So he pleaded guilty to

those charges in SP and those

705

charges were in Spokane County.

706

So this is how complex the,

the court system is because

707

everything is county by county.

708

Mm-hmm.

709

So he pleaded guilty to those

charges in Spokane County.

710

He spent like 76 days in

jail, something like that.

711

And then he gets transferred to

Stevens County and we're like,

712

okay, well where is he at in Stevens

County at this point in time?

713

And and then found out, figured out

714

to get bailed out by his sister on

a hundred thousand dollars bond.

715

And our biggest question in this is, with

the severity of the charge and the fact

716

that he already resisted arrest in the

standoff, why was he allowed out on bond?

717

And that's.

718

It, it's something we weren't

able to answer, right?

719

No, we didn't.

720

I mean, we didn't figure out

the answer to that question.

721

Mm-hmm.

722

But I think, I mean, in Stevens

County, so here's, here's how I see it.

723

Mm-hmm.

724

So in, in Spokane County, he he

pleaded guilty and he is the trial

725

for his charge of a criminal mischief.

726

Mm-hmm.

727

That stemmed from the standoff.

728

Right.

729

Which was a separate thing

from the, the warrant that they

730

were there to arrest him on.

731

Mm-hmm.

732

Which was the sexual assault of a child.

733

Mm-hmm.

734

And

735

he, he served, he served 76 days mm-hmm.

736

In this Spokane County jail.

737

And the judge let him out on time served.

738

Right.

739

Since he pled, I think probably

because he pled guilty.

740

Mm-hmm.

741

And after that he was transferred

straight to Stevens County.

742

Mm-hmm.

743

And so.

744

They, I mean they, they decided to,

to post bond for him for a hundred

745

thousand dollars and he was in custody

there for a completely different Right.

746

Crime.

747

But it was for the crime that they went

out for him, for the warrant or that he

748

had both police standoffs That's right.

749

Because of, yes.

750

So, and then, and then we're here in

751

during that time between when he was

752

were looking at the court records of,

continuance here, continuance there

753

trial date set, trial date missed,

like things like that were happening.

754

And I think his sister told you like some

of the reasons why he wasn't like actually

755

showing up for court and things like that.

756

He, he missed some court dates mm-hmm.

757

Because he, she, she said that he he

wasn't able to make the drive to Colville.

758

Mm-hmm.

759

And so.

760

He, I mean, I ge he, he, he

missed enough court dates mm-hmm.

761

That they eventually

rescinded his bond mm-hmm.

762

And and issued a warrant for his arrest.

763

Mm-hmm.

764

And that's what led us

765

Right.

766

Which is when he died.

767

Yeah.

768

So, it's just another, not just, but

this is another illustration of, how

769

our court system is wonky in those ways.

770

I think I've been, I've been reporting

on a lot of stories about mm-hmm.

771

How, the systems that exist, these,

like very kind of diffuse mm-hmm.

772

Systems of policing and of mental

health and of courts, like,

773

people fall through the cracks.

774

Yeah.

775

Because it's so complicated.

776

And often there are people

who just, they're, they're

777

having a rough time with life.

778

Mm-hmm.

779

And, they're not, not like, they're

not perfect people and they, like,

780

they have, they have problems.

781

Donald's.

782

His his toxicology report showed

methamphetamine and, and alcohol.

783

Oh.

784

I noticed a heart condition too.

785

Yeah.

786

But he, there there's

multiple stories mm-hmm.

787

Of police killing people who have been.

788

S repeatedly failed by

the systems that exist.

789

Yeah.

790

And you said he only had

a sixth grade education.

791

Yes.

792

Is that right?

793

Yeah, that's correct.

794

So, interesting story.

795

We're gonna pivot real or now to our

second story, which also has a little

796

bit to do with police funding and,

but it's right here in Spokane Valley.

797

Or it's, we're, we're in Spokane, it's

right next door to SP in Spokane Valley.

798

There we go.

799

Yeah.

800

Yeah.

801

Our our city to the east.

802

Yes.

803

Mm-hmm.

804

So every Monday range goes through

all of the public record, or sorry.

805

Public meetings that are

happening in our region.

806

I mean, not every single one,

but almost every single one.

807

So we do Spokane City Council, we do

Spokane Valley City Council, we do

808

the school boards, things like that.

809

And this Monday we noticed Spokane Valley

had on their agenda two important items.

810

And the first is very interesting,

can be connected to the second.

811

I think I just thought it

was the funniest thing.

812

You're not, you're not the only one.

813

There was a lot of people

at the meeting who Yeah.

814

Put the same thing out.

815

I was just like, this is opposite things.

816

It's not funny in like, haha, but

funny and like, this is messed up.

817

So the first item, what's,

what was the first item?

818

So Spokane Valley is in the middle

of a three phase plan to, to.

819

Fully hire like mm-hmm.

820

Like a, a complete police

department because they

821

contract with the county, right?

822

Yeah.

823

They, they, so, so the Spokane Valley

Police Department is technically under the

824

umbrella of the Spokane County, uh mm-hmm.

825

Sheriff's Office.

826

But they, it is, it is, it is its

own entity that, and they, they share

827

resources, they, they share officers but

they do have their own dedicated force.

828

Mm-hmm.

829

And for a long time, like the, the.

830

The city.

831

If you, if you talk to any of the

city council members in Spokane

832

Valley, they will tell you that

833

of this program, which hap mm-hmm.

834

Which started last year they didn't

hire any new police officers.

835

They didn't Hi.

836

Or they didn't hire any

additional police officers.

837

Oh, got it.

838

Okay.

839

Well, that's old police force.

840

And at the same time, the population

of Spokane Valley grew a lot.

841

I see.

842

And so there are a lot of people in

Spokane Valley's a conservative place.

843

There's a lot of people there who

feel like the police force needs

844

to be a lot more robust than it is.

845

Mm-hmm.

846

And so, so they embarked on this

project to basically like bring it

847

up to what they would see as like s.

848

Speed for like, and they, this,

this city council identified public

849

safety as their number one priority.

850

Mm-hmm.

851

And they see cops as

being central to that.

852

Mm-hmm.

853

They wanna be a big kid city.

854

Yeah.

855

I mean, well, and, and like

services everywhere mm-hmm.

856

Are like eroded, yeah.

857

And but they, they, they really,

they really wanna hire a lot of

858

new cops and they, they hired

10 new officers last year.

859

Dedicated ones.

860

Mm-hmm.

861

And two that they share with

the Spokane County Sheriff.

862

They want to hire more than that.

863

Mm-hmm.

864

And to, to hire the, the 10

that they hired last year, they

865

cut a lot from other programs.

866

And there's basically no fat left

in the budget to do that again.

867

So they can't really cut from, or this

is, this is what, do you know off the top

868

of your head what programs they cut from?

869

I don't.

870

Okay.

871

I don't know.

872

I don't know that that's, I'm

still in the middle of reporting.

873

Right.

874

That out.

875

But the, the, the city managers

will tell you that there's

876

really nothing left mm-hmm.

877

To cut from the budget unless they

start cutting aquatics or like,

878

just like important programs for

like, or, or parks or just, yeah.

879

Things that people also need.

880

Mm-hmm.

881

And there, there's, this is

controversial on the city council.

882

Like there's, there's at least one

member that feels like there is

883

more to cut and he won't let city

council member Al Merkel wants them

884

to like zero out the budget, geez.

885

Fully fund the police department

and then like figure out which other

886

programs are like, what leftover can

be doled out to the other programs.

887

Okay.

888

And he talked about this on Tuesday night.

889

But so the, so the, so the

second phase one of the proposals

890

to funds more police mm-hmm.

891

And I, I can't remember the exact

number, but I know that they, they

892

want nine new patrol officers and some

other types of officers, including

893

a behavioral health specialist.

894

Mm-hmm.

895

They wanna propose a new tax, a a 0.1%

896

tax, so that that equates to about 10

cents out of a hundred dollars for sales.

897

Mm-hmm.

898

Sales tax to hire these new officers.

899

Taxes are unpopular in

Spokane Valley, but.

900

I think police are more popular

than the taxes are unpopular.

901

And this it's a fun little caw.

902

So that's, that's the first, that's

the first resolution that they,

903

they, they, or that was, and, and

this is like, sorry, this is, this

904

is a, this is a ballot initiative

that they wanna put to the voters.

905

Is it a ballot initiative?

906

Yes.

907

Oh, okay.

908

So this would, it would be, if, if they do

it, it'll be on the August 5th election.

909

Got it.

910

And the voters will decide

whether that gets implemented.

911

Okay.

912

So, and, and this meeting on Tuesday

night, they were having, I think, the

913

first public hearing for that, right?

914

They voted, I think they voted

for, they voted on language for

915

the, for the ballot initiative.

916

Oh, interesting.

917

I thought they were just

having a public hearing.

918

They've, they've held, it was a

public hearing, but they, they've

919

held, they've held readings for it.

920

Got it.

921

Before.

922

Okay.

923

So that, did they cover that

first, that item first, or did

924

they cover the other item first?

925

That was, that was the

first item they covered.

926

Oh, interesting.

927

That's not how it was,

I think, in the agenda.

928

Yeah, it was, it was the first

thing they talked about, huh?

929

On Tuesday night.

930

That's so funny.

931

Okay, so let's talk about the

second thing they talked about.

932

So the other one, so this has a

little bit of a history to it.

933

In 2016 the Spokane Valley City Council

voted in a resolution that declared that

934

Spokane Valley is not a sanctuary city,

which is basically, it's a term that

935

describes a government that, or, or a

place where the law enforcement agencies.

936

And, and there are several definitions,

but in this context where, where law

937

enforcement agencies do not help mm-hmm.

938

The federal government to

enforce immigration law.

939

Yeah.

940

And so, and these laws, or in these

sanctuary city policies, I think, I dunno

941

if they're policies or laws technically,

but those were created so that people who

942

are undocumented wouldn't be afraid to

like, call 9 1 1 for when they need help.

943

Exactly.

944

And things like that, because they were

afraid of getting deported as a result.

945

So that was the reasoning

behind sanctuary cities.

946

So that's, that's the, yeah, that's,

that's why sanctuary cities or

947

states or counties exist is to like,

provide some level of safety for, for

948

migrants who might be undocumented.

949

We live in a context where even documented

migrants are being rounded up and, and

950

deported people who are here legally.

951

But so, so that, that was in 2016.

952

In 2019 I believe it was.

953

Mm-hmm.

954

The state created the legis,

the Washington State legislature

955

created a sanctuary lots called

the Keep Washington Working Act.

956

And that act made it so that

no law enforcement mm-hmm.

957

Jurisdictions in the state could

help federal agents locate or,

958

or deport immigrants mm-hmm.

959

Who are undocumented.

960

And so the entire state, it became

a sanctuary state, essentially.

961

Okay.

962

But the resolution that the

Spokane Valley City Council

963

had, had been, stayed in place.

964

Mm-hmm.

965

They just couldn't enforce it because

that would cut against the, the Keep

966

Washington Working Act of the state law.

967

Okay.

968

So fast forward to today.

969

That, that, that original

resolution was still on the books.

970

Mm-hmm.

971

And the, an item was on, was on the agenda

for, for Tuesday night saying just like

972

replacing that resolution with a new

973

Yeah.

974

Okay.

975

It, it gets rid of the 2016 re

resolution and creates a new.

976

And, and this is like, it

doesn't have any teeth.

977

It's really just a statement, but

it's a resolution that says it, it

978

like reaffirms that San, that Spokane

Valley is not a sanctuary city.

979

Mm-hmm.

980

And that it's going to encourage, its

its police forces to help federal help

981

other agencies to enforce immigration

law within the confines of state law.

982

So, and that, and that's basically

an admission saying mm-hmm.

983

We know that the state law

does not allow us to do this.

984

Mm-hmm.

985

But we wish we could.

986

Yeah.

987

And, and Aaron Sellers put it in a, a

good way or a way that I liked is that

988

this was more of a value statement than

like an action, but it's still a bold

989

value statement in this climate, right?

990

Yeah.

991

I mean, it's essentially saying that

like, it's what it essentially, what it,

992

what it means is that Spokane Valley.

993

Doesn't like mm-hmm.

994

The Keep Washington working at it once.

995

Mm-hmm.

996

It wants its police forces to help federal

agents round up and deport migrants.

997

And so they started talking about this

resolution after they had a public

998

comment hearing or a public hearing

about a new sales tax that they want

999

voters to vote yes on to provide

more funding for police officers.

00:42:48,844 --> 00:42:50,824

For more police officers.

00:42:51,154 --> 00:42:57,034

And then shortly after they had, or

they talked about the resolution mm-hmm.

00:42:57,035 --> 00:43:01,084

About their, they want their police

officers to help the federal officials.

00:43:01,429 --> 00:43:02,269

Deport people.

00:43:02,659 --> 00:43:06,289

So yeah, tell me, we, I don't, we

haven't actually caught up since

00:43:06,289 --> 00:43:09,469

I think Tuesday night on this or

had a chance to really dig in.

00:43:09,469 --> 00:43:12,559

Can you tell me, like, what

was the sentiment at the, at

00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:13,609

the meeting Tuesday nights?

00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:17,029

So there, I've never, I've been to,

I haven't, I don't go to Spokane

00:43:17,029 --> 00:43:18,349

Valley City Council meetings often.

00:43:18,349 --> 00:43:18,439

Mm-hmm.

00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:22,819

But I have been a number of times,

and I've never seen it like this.

00:43:22,859 --> 00:43:24,054

The, the room was packed.

00:43:24,174 --> 00:43:24,264

Mm-hmm.

00:43:24,504 --> 00:43:25,734

Most of the seats were full.

00:43:26,144 --> 00:43:32,924

People were lining the walls

and they heard for, for the

00:43:32,924 --> 00:43:34,634

sanctuary city resolution mm-hmm.

00:43:34,874 --> 00:43:37,269

They heard 31 public comments.

00:43:37,529 --> 00:43:37,949

Mm-hmm.

00:43:38,184 --> 00:43:41,304

29 of them were like

vehemently against it.

00:43:41,364 --> 00:43:44,814

A lot of those folks were from, I, I,

I would say about half of them were

00:43:44,814 --> 00:43:47,034

from out of, outside of Spokane Valley.

00:43:47,034 --> 00:43:47,124

Mm-hmm.

00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:50,499

I, again, Spokane Valley

is a conservative place.

00:43:50,529 --> 00:43:54,069

I I imagine a lot of folks, a

lot of voters there would support

00:43:54,099 --> 00:43:59,919

this resolution, but the people

who showed up to city council on

00:44:00,249 --> 00:44:02,379

Tuesday night were not those people.

00:44:03,009 --> 00:44:03,010

Yeah.

00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:10,259

And they, they cut the, the public

mayor, Pam Haley, cut the the public

00:44:10,259 --> 00:44:13,439

comment period from three minutes to

one minute to accommodate everybody.

00:44:13,439 --> 00:44:13,529

Mm-hmm.

00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:16,529

So they read really fast

from their statements.

00:44:16,724 --> 00:44:17,219

Yeah, yeah.

00:44:17,279 --> 00:44:19,499

Squeezing three minutes of

comments into one minute.

00:44:19,504 --> 00:44:19,564

Mm-hmm.

00:44:19,669 --> 00:44:21,979

And it was funny, mayor

Haley, like commended them

00:44:21,979 --> 00:44:23,269

on how fast they were going.

00:44:24,259 --> 00:44:28,999

And a lot of them, a lot of

them were identified the same

00:44:28,999 --> 00:44:29,929

connection that you identified.

00:44:29,929 --> 00:44:30,019

Mm-hmm.

00:44:30,259 --> 00:44:35,869

And they're like, how do you expect us to

vote on an, on extra taxes for new cops

00:44:35,869 --> 00:44:37,789

when you're just creating extra work?

00:44:37,794 --> 00:44:37,864

Mm-hmm.

00:44:38,124 --> 00:44:38,504

For them.

00:44:39,664 --> 00:44:42,964

To enforce laws that are

not in their jurisdiction.

00:44:42,994 --> 00:44:43,324

Right.

00:44:44,174 --> 00:44:45,854

So that was one of the contentions.

00:44:45,914 --> 00:44:49,934

Most of it was more like concerned

with just like the human aspect of it.

00:44:49,939 --> 00:44:50,119

Mm-hmm.

00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:53,664

Like, immigrants are here in good faith.

00:44:53,664 --> 00:44:55,975

They, they want, like,

by and large they mm-hmm.

00:44:56,031 --> 00:44:57,606

They commit less crime Yeah.

00:44:57,711 --> 00:44:59,181

Than other communities.

00:44:59,601 --> 00:45:02,721

They came here because they

wanted to better their lives.

00:45:02,751 --> 00:45:02,841

Mm-hmm.

00:45:03,081 --> 00:45:03,831

By and large.

00:45:04,221 --> 00:45:06,411

They're human beings, some

of, some of them Yeah.

00:45:06,511 --> 00:45:08,581

Commit crimes just like Americans do.

00:45:08,911 --> 00:45:09,001

Yeah.

00:45:09,001 --> 00:45:13,767

But but everybody wanted the, the,

the, the city council to support

00:45:13,767 --> 00:45:16,377

them rather than saying like,

we want to help deport mm-hmm.

00:45:17,037 --> 00:45:17,517

People.

00:45:18,407 --> 00:45:19,397

It was pretty contentious.

00:45:19,397 --> 00:45:19,457

Yeah.

00:45:19,567 --> 00:45:23,257

What were the people who were

in support of this thing?

00:45:23,407 --> 00:45:23,647

I don't know.

00:45:24,487 --> 00:45:26,017

Well, so, so a couple people.

00:45:26,017 --> 00:45:27,547

So, so two of the 31.

00:45:28,042 --> 00:45:30,142

You mean the, the people

during public comment?

00:45:30,202 --> 00:45:30,412

Yeah.

00:45:30,412 --> 00:45:31,102

Sorry, what was I saying?

00:45:31,102 --> 00:45:35,352

They, they basically said that,

the federal government has primacy

00:45:35,352 --> 00:45:37,902

over, over local governments.

00:45:38,002 --> 00:45:42,652

Which is like, and basically saying

that like, like that means that

00:45:42,782 --> 00:45:46,052

city governments should help force

en enforce federal law, which is

00:45:46,052 --> 00:45:47,462

like about that federal money.

00:45:48,272 --> 00:45:48,632

It doesn jurisdictions

don't work that way.

00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:55,082

But the, so, so the, the reason this

was proposed, it came from city council

00:45:55,082 --> 00:45:56,492

member Jessica Jager, who mm-hmm.

00:45:56,742 --> 00:46:01,572

She's, she's known for having established

the Moms for Liberty chapter in Spokane

00:46:01,572 --> 00:46:03,982

Valley which is like an anti-trans mm-hmm.

00:46:04,232 --> 00:46:05,072

Activist group.

00:46:05,502 --> 00:46:10,222

She said that she, she wanted to

advance this resolution because she

00:46:10,222 --> 00:46:14,302

wanted to keep federal funds flowing

into Spokane Valley because the Trump

00:46:14,302 --> 00:46:17,262

administration had threatened to, hmm.

00:46:17,922 --> 00:46:21,372

Had had threatened to cut federal

funding off from sanctuary jurisdictions.

00:46:22,242 --> 00:46:24,492

Mayor Pam Haley had a different reason.

00:46:24,492 --> 00:46:24,582

Mm-hmm.

00:46:24,892 --> 00:46:28,642

She, she said this resolution brings

Spokane Valley into compliance with

00:46:28,642 --> 00:46:29,872

the Keep Washington working at Hmm.

00:46:29,932 --> 00:46:30,862

Which it does.

00:46:31,232 --> 00:46:35,252

A lot of folks were wondering why they

didn't just repeal the old resolution.

00:46:35,252 --> 00:46:35,312

Yeah.

00:46:35,392 --> 00:46:37,162

And she didn't answer that question.

00:46:37,222 --> 00:46:40,362

But they they voted up both measures.

00:46:40,712 --> 00:46:42,572

It fell, go ahead.

00:46:42,662 --> 00:46:46,622

Oh, did, did they provide any

rationale for the, the two

00:46:46,622 --> 00:46:47,972

together at the same time?

00:46:48,962 --> 00:46:50,342

No, they didn't talk about that.

00:46:50,342 --> 00:46:52,772

I mean, they didn't like talk about it

in the context of each other, right?

00:46:52,832 --> 00:46:53,462

No, no.

00:46:53,462 --> 00:46:56,402

I, I think, I don't think they

saw them as connected really.

00:46:56,402 --> 00:46:56,462

Hmm.

00:46:56,592 --> 00:46:57,042

Fascinating.

00:46:57,102 --> 00:46:57,972

Or it didn't seem that way.

00:46:58,812 --> 00:47:00,687

But a lot of the community

did see them as Yeah.

00:47:00,792 --> 00:47:03,162

As being, as, as having some overlap.

00:47:03,852 --> 00:47:06,702

It fell, it fell along

predictable lines, so.

00:47:06,702 --> 00:47:06,703

Mm-hmm.

00:47:06,797 --> 00:47:11,672

So, council members I, well, deputy Mayor,

mayor Hattenburg, who's the sole liberal.

00:47:11,672 --> 00:47:14,582

He's, he's not, he's not super

lefty, but he's, he's a moderate.

00:47:14,672 --> 00:47:14,792

Mm-hmm.

00:47:15,022 --> 00:47:20,042

He, he's registered as a Democrat and

Ben Wick, who's a kind of a moderate

00:47:20,042 --> 00:47:22,442

conservative, both voted against mm-hmm.

00:47:22,682 --> 00:47:26,762

The, the sanctuary city resolution,

and everybody else voted for it.

00:47:26,792 --> 00:47:31,382

Interestingly, council member Al Merkel,

he didn't wanna vote for it because

00:47:31,382 --> 00:47:33,062

he didn't feel like it did anything.

00:47:33,062 --> 00:47:37,292

And it doesn't do anything like

fair, like, no, like the city's

00:47:37,292 --> 00:47:40,352

operations are not gonna change

because of this resolution.

00:47:40,802 --> 00:47:43,232

He didn't wanna vote for it,

but he did vote for it because

00:47:43,262 --> 00:47:45,212

he did a next door poll.

00:47:45,212 --> 00:47:49,382

And most of, most of the people who

responded to it in his constituency,

00:47:49,922 --> 00:47:52,952

supported the resolution and he

said, I work for my constituents,

00:47:52,952 --> 00:47:53,972

and so I'm voting for it.

00:47:54,432 --> 00:47:57,432

But he told me later that he wouldn't have

if he hadn't received that feedbacking.

00:47:58,662 --> 00:48:02,262

And with the sales tax, what was the

public comment real quick before we

00:48:02,262 --> 00:48:06,052

run out of most people were folks,

folks were in, in support of it.

00:48:06,112 --> 00:48:08,002

The only in, in the, of the sales tax?

00:48:08,152 --> 00:48:08,542

Yes.

00:48:08,632 --> 00:48:09,022

Oh, interesting.

00:48:09,072 --> 00:48:10,542

They, they want, they want more cops.

00:48:10,572 --> 00:48:10,902

Okay.

00:48:11,202 --> 00:48:11,742

Fascinating.

00:48:11,922 --> 00:48:17,682

Al Council member Al Merkel voted against

it because he didn't feel like they'd

00:48:17,682 --> 00:48:20,982

done their homework in, in trying to

cut more from the budget, but Yeah.

00:48:20,982 --> 00:48:21,072

Huh.

00:48:22,362 --> 00:48:25,682

I am always fascinated by the

rationales of other people.

00:48:25,682 --> 00:48:30,872

The dynamics are very interesting,

but I think we're at the top.

00:48:31,292 --> 00:48:32,402

Or at the end of the show.

00:48:32,402 --> 00:48:32,972

So yes.

00:48:33,022 --> 00:48:34,342

This, sorry.

00:48:34,742 --> 00:48:36,362

That's our time for this week.

00:48:36,462 --> 00:48:39,792

Free Range is a weekly news and

public affairs program presented by

00:48:39,792 --> 00:48:44,472

Range Media and produced by Range

Media and K-Y-R-S-Q Community Radio,

00:48:44,712 --> 00:48:46,387

. Thanks for listening today, guys.

00:48:46,727 --> 00:48:47,227

Bye everyone.