Sonia Kampshoff

Welcome to Working with Languages, the podcast for language speakers ready to explore the range of opportunities involving languages. My name is Sonia Kampshoff. I'm a translator turned Google Ads specialist and a lifelong language enthusiast. Join me and my guests as we explore how they embraced languages in their careers and what working with languages looks like in the age of AI. Because finding the right inspiration can help you build or shift your career.

I've been looking forward to recording this episode with Wendy Rendón because her job as a Senior Customer Success Manager is really well suited to people with language skills and I wanted to find out more about it. This conversation does not disappoint. Wendy Rendón moved from Colombia and Barcelona to Finland to progress her career specifically in the tech and events industry. She tells us why Finland is a tech hub and why you may not know about it. What makes a good Customer Success Manager? and we end the chart with a surprise question to me. Let's dive in.

Welcome back to Working with Languages. My guest today is truly international, from Colombia, but has lived in Europe in various countries for a number of years, speaks various languages and is now based in Finland, which is a tech hub. So first of all, hello, Wendy Rendón.

Wendy Rendón

Hello, Sonia Kampshoff. Thank you for having me here.

Sonia Kampshoff

It's wonderful to have you here. I'm very much looking forward to the conversation. As you know, I normally start with the same question for everyone. What is your favorite word or phrase in a language that you speak?

Yeah, I think I actually want to go with my original language, so Spanish, and it's a phrase, something that is more like my motto, and it's, vamos a ver qué pasa. It actually, means like, let's see what happens in English, but it doesn't really grasp, like if you use the literal translation of this sentence, it's more like a vibe and something that will...

be used especially for an attitude towards uncertainty. So it's something that I have applied quite often in my life, also what it describes why I'm living in Finland. So yeah, it's a bit of optimism in the sentence, but a bit of risk-taking at the same time.

Sonia Kampshoff

I like it. Optimism and risk-taking. That's such a beautiful expression. I'm very glad you picked it.

Yeah, we have a lot of sayings, of course, in Colombia, but that's one of the best ones that I can think of, basically. It applies in many ways to my personality too, but yeah, it's not correctly grammatically, let's say, for a non-Spanish speaker, but it is really in the vibing mode, quite widely used.

Sonia Kampshoff

Basically. Brilliant. So you're from Colombia. Tell us more about where you're from and all your origin story, if you like.

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, so I was born in Colombia. was also raised partially there as I did all my school studies as a child and then kind of got involved a little bit more with language steal while being in there, especially because the schools are primarily focused in American English because of the influence of United States, of course, that's kind of why.

one of the main languages that we learned. And then the journey took me to Spain, moved there with my family in Barcelona. So that's kind of like a secondary home. And that's one of the places where it actually opened the doors to more languages to me, more specifically because Barcelona is in a region where it's widely used two different languages like Catalan.

and Spanish, they coexist in the same space. So I learned Catalan as well at the same time, like it was obvious an advantage to be a Spanish speaker.

Sonia Kampshoff

It's weather when you move to Barcelona.

Wendy Rendón

Officially, I was 16, but I had a living back and forth earlier than that. So yeah, I will say officially when I was 16, but I lived there a bit earlier for vacations and then going back to Colombia.

Sonia Kampshoff

Nice. And you moved there with your family, so you finished your studies as well, your school, and I you went to university there as well.

Wendy Rendón

Yes, that's why of the main purpose of learning Catalan, because if you want to study officially in like one of the main universities in Barcelona, you must speak Catalan. It's part of the language requirements. That was a really good thing that I decided to do it prior to studies. I was planning to do something absolutely different to what my career is right now. I wanted to go into like a medicine studies, but still like the language applied for everything else.

Sonia Kampshoff

Interesting, very interesting. didn't realize that, I know of course that Barcelona is Catalans, but I didn't realize that university is only in Catalan and that it is a requirement. That's very interesting. So you knew from early on that you wanted to study there and you improved your Catalan for that.

Wendy Rendón

It's not like it's fully in Catalan, it's partially in Catalan. Of course, if you do it as an Erasmus exchange, it's a different story because of course it doesn't imply that you actually study in the university itself. if you start from like first year and you plan to do the full career, then definitely you have to speak Catalan because it will take, I think for my career it was like...

45 % of my studies were in Catalan. So yeah, it's kind of a big portion. then, yeah, Spanish and the third language that you can decide which one in that case, well, I chose English since I already had the advantage of speaking. So, but yeah, like that's basically how it works in regions. It's not the only one. Basically, if you know a little bit more about Spain, each of the regions, they also have their official language.

You can also see it, for example, in the Northern, with the Euskera is like officially is the Basque country and they also speak their own official language and it also applies in some ways for the studies too.

Sonia Kampshoff

Interesting. So when you said you wanted to go into medicine but then decided on a different path, what made you decide for the different path? I think

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, like being exposed to the lifestyle, the opportunities that you get to see when living in Europe. You also believe that there are some other ways of, I don't know, like experiencing the job market. And that's what happened. I was really, really like leading tours. I wanted to do like, and then somehow I ended up involved in a lot of like business related.

jobs that I did early on my adulthood. as soon as I turned 18, then basically the languages, the optional career opportunities of having a job that I can travel, that was also some kind of decision there. And obviously, biomedicine is not one of them. You might be just behind one lab.

That was basically why I decided to go with business studies in general, like events industry more specifically, since Barcelona is quite a big cosmopolitan place and yeah, events is a huge thing in the city too. I don't know if you heard some of that.

Sonia Kampshoff

Yeah, I think it's quite famous to have a lot of events, business, non-business. You know, it's a very popular city where to go and hang out and also have conferences. So you had a very pragmatic approach about, you know, the choice of your career. You wanted to be able to travel, but also have, you know, a solid foot in the place where you were already living. And did you then, after university, did you work in Barcelona?

Wendy Rendón

Yes, I did. I didn't start especially on the events industry. I was also at the same time studying. for me, it was more like a job that I could cover my expenses while I was finishing my studies at the same time. But I got to grasp a bit on the events industry there. Of course, it's like a magnificent place to experience, as you said, like all of this business or like social events in general. And I was so interested.

at the time by the logistics, but then my interest became a bit deeper of the industry, but in the tech side. And that's where I also decided that I needed to take a little bit of a turn in my career and not staying in Barcelona, but actually going somewhere where I could actually focus on the tech part. And that's why I ended up in Finland, basically.

Sonia Kampshoff

And when we first spoke, you said that Finland is really a tech hub, which I wasn't fully aware of. So you went there deliberately because you wanted to have more exposure to the technical side and technical side in your work as well.

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, I mean, have you heard about Nokia?

Sonia Kampshoff

Yes, of course, but it's probably one of the older companies. Normally when I think of tech, it's more like, I don't know, the last 10, maybe 20 years. Yeah.

Wendy Rendón

I think it's also in the culture of Finland, they are really modest when it comes to not calling their attention so easily. That's why maybe Finns companies are not heard so often, but still they are there. They are in things that you don't realize. Another example of this kind of influence of Finland in many other places is the lifts, elevators.

If you go in many places, you will see this brand called Kone and people don't realize this is a Finnish company. But because of that, the image of Finland is not so well known or like it was not so well known back then, but still they have a lot of influence in like tech related, like software, hardware in general. But the decision moving here, it was also because of like related to the studies.

They are really good as like a nest where you can start learning about technology. And I think that was a really good move because my plan on the career, was kind of, it was very niche, I had to say. Deciding to stay in events industry, but also focusing on the technical part. That's not something that's so often someone know or like you get to know like, Oh, I want to specifically do this.

That's what I took my chance and I think it was a really good one, even though Finland was an absolute unknown place to me when I took this decision. But yeah, I had a lot of people that I met in Barcelona who helped with this decision. were things, they were talking about social aspects, of course language. I was terrified because it has nothing to do with any other language that I was exposed before.

Sonia Kampshoff

Yeah, Finnish is notoriously different than any other language. It's really a linguistic family on its own. So how are you learning? you learning? Would you say that you're now fluent in Finnish?

Wendy Rendón

No, I am still learning Finnish. Basically, it's a B1 in paper. I can definitely go to a cafe, restaurant. I can understand if they use the official language because there are two parts of the language. be clear, this sense, there is the official or like the... how they call like the book language, Kireakieli. That is the official way to speak it.

And then there is the spoken language that is more informal. So that's the one that I still struggle a little bit, mostly because of the speed. There are some contractions in the words, they cut them off. And so you really need to pay attention a lot to grasp on the context, otherwise it can get mixed. It's not something that I am used in any other languages. mean, like there are some bits here and there in English, for example, that you can also do these contractions.

still have a lot of the root of the word or they are very minor. yeah, at least I am fluent in some parts of the language, but still trying to get my way into being an actual profanity in the near future.

Sonia Kampshoff

And how are you finding the world, sorry, say that sentence again. How are you finding the work culture? Is it very international? it, how would you describe it?

Wendy Rendón

I have the fortune to work in a company that is really international. Although all management is local, they are from Finland. Our team is composed of like, I have probably like counted the last time we were about 20 different nationalities. So the official language is English internally, although they're like, sometimes you just see in the office that

Some people are speaking Finnish, some people are speaking Russian, some people are speaking, I don't know, Spanish, for example, me. So it's really nice to hear all of those languages at the same time when you're working. then towards our clients, of course, then it's based on what you can speak. So that's how we get the vision there.

Sonia Kampshoff

Great. And tell us more about what you do there professionally.

Wendy Rendón

Yeah. Well, I am currently one of the senior customer success managers, basically handle a portfolio of clients, meaning that all of those clients are the ones that brings those events to life. And me as the customer success manager, I help them to onboard in the process of applying the software that we provide them for these events. So it's kind of digitalization of their event.

It's a tool that helps with the interactions for networking with the content, like everything in one place. In the end, it's like converting that event from the physical to the digital context.

Sonia Kampshoff

Yeah, I noticed, for example, that in the last few years when I go to an event or conference, they often give you an app, which makes it so much easier. You can see the layout, you can see where people are, where stands are, and you can message people. And it's super easy and there's updates and news and everything. This is such a brilliant idea. It makes it really much easier to go to events and conferences and just move around and connect with others. It's a brilliant product.

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, correctly. then I will consider that I am quite outgoing if you compare me to like the regular thing. That's why I find it so enhancing working in a company like this. But at the same time, I understand what such product like the one that I work with exists because I wouldn't be capable of speaking to, I don't know, like 20 different strangers just out of nowhere.

trying to pitch them my idea, I will be so shy in a way. So having these tools and also finding the information in one place, it makes it so easier. definitely the digitalization of events, it was a great, I don't know, like introduction to the industry, probably like 15, 20 years ago, and even more in the past 10 months where a lot of bigger features has come to life.

Sonia Kampshoff

And as a customer success manager, you really sit between the technical team and the company clients. So you have this interaction between two different teams, and you want to essentially fulfill the requests that the clients have on a technical side to make the app more personalized and customized. Is that right?

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, well, that's the fun part. I do work as the bridge between the tech and the customer relationship. But the idea here is like, I get to give them all the best practices, all the technical understanding on how they can get the most out of the system, especially because in the

a business event industry, there are also some goals, are some, how to say, the outcome of those events are not necessarily just to bring attendees in and get the entrance ticket out of them. There are also some other items such as sponsorships, like a lot of hidden purpose behind like, why do I need to bring X amount of attendees and

the percentage of all of those stakeholders and how to combine that strategically on like the promotional items of the system, creating that traffic on the platform itself, the interactions, that's the strategic side. And that's where I combine both of them kind of guiding the team in the project to build all of those features strategically too, but they actually want to have us an outcome as a goal business-wise.

Sonia Kampshoff

That sounds so interesting. It's really a combination of so many skills that you can apply on a daily basis. So the clients that you work with, where are they based? Do you use your languages in your work?

Wendy Rendón

I do with some of them. I mostly work with all of the European market, although I also have some clients that are based in Middle East or some Asian countries too. Although in Europe, I work with the Spanish market, so that's where I can get to use my native language.

also Catalan because if I get a client that works in the Catalan region, then I get to speak Catalan to them. And then of course the remaining ones, so it's English as the main language, most of them. Finnish is more specific for actual colleagues that they are native, so we try to really provide the localization of those clients based on the native language that we speak.

Sonia Kampshoff

Brilliant. So that means that the app exists in various languages as well. Is that right?

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, that basically opens up the possibilities to work in any languages.

Sonia Kampshoff

Nice. That's very interesting. I'm very interested about this job role of Customer Success Manager because I think it's fairly recent, not super recent, but fairly recent. And can you tell us a little bit more about what makes a good Customer Success Manager? What are the skills that are most needed?

Wendy Rendón

think that curiosity is basically one of the most relevant characteristics on the role or like the specifics of being a customer success manager because you need to understand that not every case is the same, not every client is the same, although they might have like similarities on their outcomes.

But I'm also speaking here about the events industry because they're customer success managers in other type of industries and it works completely opposite of what I do here. This is one of the conversations I get to have with my peers here in Finland. There is a group of customer success professionals and it's so funny to enter those conversations with them because while I explain them what I do as a CSM.

they are telling me something completely different about what they do. But in general, you need to be quite data-driven for this role. So you get to combine that information to how to proceed with the project in general. Really also like thick skin and not to panic so easily. And get really well organizational skills.

Sonia Kampshoff

So it's really very, very all round role where you need to be able to speak with people and, you know, get things organized and done, but also look at the data and the business side of it. That's such an interesting role. And how relevant do you think overall are languages in this job type, both for you and for other people, maybe your colleagues, but also other customer success managers in other companies?

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, for us it's quite relevant because we are an international company. So it's not just internal, although we like, we all speak English fluently in the company, but internationally it is well known that the best you can communicate is definitely like the customer's language. I think it's also a good to have as an advantage. I had this clearly with some clients that

Although they speak English, the context or the safety of having someone who speaks also your native language is taken differently so that you get to handle the project in a different manner. You also have some similar cultural experiences. So I've noticed from clients that I have a bit more like a Northern Europe versus Southern Europe, way to work. And when I communicate in English, of course, it's neutral to everyone, but

when I get to speak in my native language to anyone from Spain, for example, that makes the work bit more relaxed, more personalized in a way, because they feel closer. And I think this role especially, it gets to handle a lot of the psychological side of the project management. You need to be a little bit of a persuasive. You need to understand the nuances of how to get to the clients soft spot. And then of course, we try to do that for all of our clients with our.

Sonia Kampshoff

Do you find that sometimes it's easier that some people from certain countries, do you find it easier to work with them as opposed to others considering your background and your languages?

Wendy Rendón

I have to say that maybe those also applies to personality, but professionally, must say that of course, language just makes easier the communication if you can actually use it properly. In this case, speaking Spanish has opened more like the trust and that's something that it really feels in this kind of role, the progress of a project, how you can work with your client for the outcomes.

So I definitely consider the language is a huge advantage for a CSM especially.

Sonia Kampshoff

I normally ask also how you use AI in your daily life and in your work. It feels like working for a technology company, probably you use it a lot. Can you give us some examples of how you use it?

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, definitely. That's topic of the past three years, more especially in the last one. You can see AI everywhere. But yeah, of course, professionally I use for analysis mainly. Again, the role, my role involves a lot of like data driven. So the most efficient way in this year has been like the introduction of those tools in our processes.

So I cannot speak in depth of the analytics that we utilize it for, but in short, it saves time to use for like comparatives where also I need to combine like unrelated sources. So the tools that are like the facilities of AI to in like create those reports, it's really lifesaver in most cases where you don't ned to spend like five hours trying to combine.

I don't know, a table from here to there, and then all of these formulas that you used to need back then. Let's say just to calculate some average, that was also like a huge improvement. On the other hand, I see it also used a lot for communications for like as a kind of companion for your like email or like

any kind of text generation. I use it myself, especially for like the grammar spell check, but I do not honestly use it for like drafting emails as you can see it sometimes. don't know, like I get to work with clients that they use these tools and then you see how the AI tool has created that message because it doesn't feel human the way how it's responded.

But yeah, in general, that's like more for analysis. So it is good for definitely dedicating your energy and your brain to more relevant stuff rather than just kind of collect all the information you need and then trying to get all of that information manually.

Sonia Kampshoff

Yeah, brilliant. Is there anything else that you would like to add that I haven't asked you?

Wendy Rendón

I will actually make you a question. How do you experience the multilingual world? Like I know yourself also speak more than three languages. How do you experience also being a multilingual in your field?

Sonia Kampshoff

I think that throughout my life from childhood studies work, I have always in one way or another worked with languages. So I'm now way used to this mode of living, thinking and working. I also feel I grew up in Italy. My mother was German. I have a very strong connection to Germany. spent a lot of time there, although I never lived there, which is funny. But I've now been in the UK for a very long time. So I find that even working, my day job is, in my day job, I'm working digital marketing, specializing in Google ads and social media ads. And I find that my working language is English, even though sometimes I'm often I manage multilingual campaigns, but my working language is in English. And I find that certain things now on a professional side just, you know, come to me more naturally.

in English. So there's maybe a bit of topical split where some things I think and say easier in either Italian or German and sometimes in English. But I also find that professionally it's sort of my specialty to have the multilingual side and I really enjoy it. My clients enjoy it. And I think it's really a plus because it allows me to

see things that other people cannot see or adopt a certain campaign or the messaging. But I also find it fascinating that it allows me to understand people better. Not only like, you know, from in simple words, you know, if I speak to a German or an Italian or a Brit, I understand the nuances, but also it allows me to understand the psychology behind a person, which I find very interesting because I'm used to people being different.

and speaking differently and using languages in different ways. So I think languages are definitely an advantage. And also I find that languages allow people to connect in a deeper way. You know, if you speak with someone speaking Spanish, be it from Spain, Colombia or another country again, you or for me speaking with someone from Italy or Germany.

Sonia Kampshoff

there's a deeper connection. And when we speak our own language, we experience this human connection. And human connection is something that AI is not good at. And I like to think that we have this, we, most of us nowadays, you use AI to some degree. And there's so many things that it can do and that we can use it for. But I find the human connection side is still very much in our hands, which is, you know, in a way nice to know because it kind of also, you know, both on a personal side, but also on a professional side, on a working side, still open languages opens up opportunities. And this is one of the many things that I like. That was a very long answer.

Wendy Rendón

I really appreciate that answer, especially because as I get to really handle a lot of AI throughout my day work, it gets clearly when I am basically seeing a message drawn by a machine versus when I see someone who replied themselves. This is just one side of the context. But in general, the ability to speak to a real person, that's not something that is going to go away or like it should be taken away because we involve new tools in our life in general. And something that I really like from your answer is that you get to touch on the psychological side. And that's so important in the CSM role as well. We get to develop this kind of cultural agility.

I don't know, it's something that it's easily explainable, but you connect with those clients, for example, because you have something that is linked. It's the language, it's the experiences, it's the industry. And then since we need to be so flexible to adapt to each case, it also like it's needed the human interaction. Although like maybe in a couple of years, the

role it could be taken over by some, I don't know, another AI tool. Still, there would be the requirement for the interaction with a human to handle this project, to have the final touch. And I think that's a superpower that no machine can replace.

Sonia Kampshoff

Absolutely, I agree. You know, as much as we use AI to do things, at the end, we want to buy a product or a service from a person that we relate to, that we connect with.

Wendy Rendón

Yeah, but yeah, I think that's all from my side. You can also connect to me through LinkedIn. It's Wendy Rendónbrr, if you would like to send me your request. Yeah, happy to be here. Thank you so much, Sonia Kampshoff.

Sonia Kampshoff

I'll put the link to your LinkedIn in the show notes. And thank you so much, Wendy Rendón, for coming on the show. It's been really a nice conversation.

Wendy Rendón

Perfect, thank you so much.

Wendy Rendón was very intentional with her career choice. In Barcelona she noticed the events industry was flourishing, so she decided to focus on that, with languages being a plus on her CV. She then intentionally moved to Finland, finding a home and a fulfilling career in a very international environment. This is a great example where languages are not the main service in the job but rather a powerful extra skill that opens doors to opportunities. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform. And if you think a friend might be interested, do share this episode or the podcast with them. You can also subscribe to my newsletter. The link is in the show notes.