In this episode, we head to the rugged beauty of Namibia’s Damaraland to meet some very special residents: the last 150 desert-adapted elephants. My guest, Daniel Oswald, shares how a volunteer project with the Elephant Human Relations Aid (EHRA) not only brought him face-to-trunk with these remarkable giants, but also inspired him to swop his Swiss banking career for a life in Africa tourism.

From building protective walls to prevent elephants from damaging farmers’ water pumps, to tracking herds under the blazing desert sun, Dani reveals how hands-on conservation is helping people and wildlife coexist. We talk about sleeping under the stars, the Peace and Seed education projects, and the unexpected joys (and surprises) of life in the bush.

Whether you’ve dreamed of volunteering in Africa, are fascinated by wildlife conservation, or just love a good story about life-changing journeys, this episode will leave you inspired. And maybe it will have you packing your own bag for Namibia.

Deutsch: Du kannst diesen Podcast auch auf Deutsch hören: “Africa with André auf Deutsch”

EHRA: https://www.ehranamibia.org/

Namibia Tourism: https://visitnamibia.com.na/

Malva pudding recipe: https://wandercapetown.com/recipe/malva-pudding/

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How elephants turned the life of a Swiss banker upside down

Today we're chatting about Namibia, that country in southwest Africa, with just under 3 million human inhabitants, and around 23,000 elephants.

The wildlife in Namibia is really fascinating. The deserts have a lot more life than you might think, don't be fooled by all that sand.

I, myself have been lucky enough to see some desert horses in the south of the country, but in the northwest, you will find the desert elephants, there are only about 150 of these specially adapted animals left.

And it is precisely about these, and the challenges in their lives, that we are talking to Daniel Oswald today.

Hi Dani, nice to have you on the podcast.

[00:00:54] André: Yeah. We know that Namibia is, a country that changed your life. You were a Swiss banker, and I always liked to joke that the elephants changed your life.

[00:01:06] André: Tell us first, who are you and how do we know each other?

[00:01:21] André: And yeah, I was lucky enough to get accepted, and so we worked together for the past decade almost.

That's right. I remember that interview, I sat there going, what is wrong with this guy? That he wants to leave a Swiss bank, and a Swiss bank salary to come and work in tourism, but um. When I mentioned what the salary would be, because tourism doesn't pay very well, you were still very happy to come and work with us and I think it was your calling in life to come and work in the tourism industry.

[00:02:04] André: Yep. we We're talking today specifically about the Elephant Human Relations Aid Project, in Namibia, which was the impetus for you making the change. Tell us about this project and where it is in Namibia and what it does.

[00:02:24] André: That's in the northwest of Namibia, right?

[00:02:38] André: What is a conflict? I mean, the elephant's not gonna come and steal my wife or my husband. So, what sort of conflict are we talking about?

Yeah. So, they come mostly during the night, they see, ah the farmer, he has a windmill, that pumps water from the ground into a fountain, and he goes there, drinks from the fountain, and while he drinks, he feels a scratch on his back. So, the windmill can help with that.

[00:03:34] Dani: Absolutely, the windmill falls down, and the farmer has a massive problem, because his neighbour is miles away. And then if he has to get his water there for all his goats, his cows, maybe he has, and for his wife and some children, then he has a problem.

And obviously he gets angry about the elephants, and then the conflict starts.

[00:04:02] Dani: Well, it's a very hands-on solution, they are building a wall around these water pumps to protect them from the elephants, but they still grant access to the water for the elephants, so they can drink.

[00:04:23] Dani: no, we build a wall around the pump.

So, the pump is protected by the wall, but next to it there's still a fountain, like a little basin from where the animals drink out, like the goats, but also the elephants. Okay. They drink there, and then they move on. No damage done. Everybody's happy.

[00:04:55] Dani: Well, I've been there three times so far. The first time was in 2010. I was sitting in my office in the Swiss bank, and I got bored and I needed to have a break, like a timeout. And so, I need to go traveling, see something new. But at that point, I didn't have Africa in mind at all.

At first, I was looking for volunteers or work and travel projects around Southeast Asia. And when I was reading all these homepages who offer such stuff, accidentally stumbled about that EHRA, Desert Elephant Project in Namibia.

[00:05:39] Dani: I started reading, and my old Boy Scout heart started pounding, yeah, "that's exactly what I need". It's like living in nature, remote areas, tracking elephants, hands on work.

Sleeping under the stars, all that stuff that triggered me, and I knew instantly, I want this. I stopped searching for all the other stuff. And then I stayed there for, uh, one month.

[00:06:14] Dani: Well, I think in the retro perspective, I was a bit over aware. Paid too much attention to everything, "is this guy gonna scam me? Is this guy going to rob me?".

[00:06:27] Dani: I read and knew there was a very low criminality in Namibia. So, I wasn't really worried. I was just overly cautious. But soon I realized, oh, these people are all so friendly. And then I relaxed quite quickly.

[00:06:54] Dani: Yes. It was like I was there; I went into the bush and I got that Africa virus. It is life with nature. I was so fascinated by that guides who work there, how they are connected. And their knowledge about the animals, and the environment, and the tracks, and the science, and the birds, and everything. And I wanted to have more about it. Yeah, so next time I went back to Africa, I went into the Kruger National Park.

And I did more, touring in Africa, until I realized, hey, you are not happy in the bank office anymore. you are happy when you are in Africa. You have to connect these two things. Then I started thinking, and decided I needed to change my career from banking to African tourism.

[00:07:51] Dani: Yes, so I did a four weeks Ranger experience course, where they teach us a lot about the animals, the animal behaviours. About tracking and how everything is connected in nature. That was very interesting. I enjoyed it very much.

[00:08:15] Dani: Well, you stay for a minimum of two weeks.

And that is divided in two parts. Part one is the build week, when you go out and build these walls, we mentioned, okay.

Part two is the patrol week. Then you go and track and monitor the elephants. So, you go out into the Land Cruiser, you track the elephants, then you take the datas. "Where are they? How many are there, is the herd still complete? Is uh, cows having a sign of pregnancy”, et cetera, et cetera. Okay.

And especially you, um, monitor their locations, their ways where they wander, their routes. Where do they migrate? So the project can decide where to build these protection walls.

[00:09:07] Dani: Well, you need to know there in that area of the Damaraland, what I find so fascinating is, it is not a national park. But still, it's an area full of wildlife. It's one of the widest areas in the world probably. Okay. And there are living some Namibian local farmers who are tending to their, uh, little goat herds, maybe some have some cows, but mostly goats or sheep. And they lived there since generations.

[00:09:41] Dani: Absolutely, yes. And they need the protection for their water pumps and those are getting the help from EHRA.

[00:09:59] Dani: Well, there's a waiting list, and I guess, the um decision is made due to the elephant movements. So those who are in that migration corridors, will of course have priority

[00:10:16] Dani: Yes. And we learn about them in the patrol weeks.

[00:10:25] Dani: Yes. Um. Another pillar, and a very important pillar, is the education of the local communities. When the project grew, they had the capacity to extend it and said, yes, it is very important for such a project, yeah, to involve the local community because without them, it's simply not working.

[00:10:47] Dani: So, they started the Peace Project, for example, which is an education project for the communities, where they learn about the elephant behavior, so they lose their nervosity and their fear of the elephants and they know, ah, "when it's shaking the ears, it's not mean that it will just kill me". Mm-hmm. "I don't need to be afraid; I need to stay calm". And they learn how to behave.

[00:11:19] Dani: Yeah. Correctly. Yeah, it gives them a much better understanding, takes away the fears. And builds up some trust, if I may say so.

[00:11:35] Dani: They're getting lessons, and they learn about the environment and hopefully seeds some fascination for the wildlife, and they learn from a young age that It is worth protecting it. Have also built a very nice InfoCenter, which is on the roads if you drive north to Twyfelfontein, you take a short detour. You can, uh, visit it, learn about the elephants. It's open for tourists, but it's also where the lessons take place for Peace and Seed Projects.

What, concrete results have you seen, or experienced, from the projects,

and do you have any good news examples that you can share with us?

There was this incident, in 2010, where there were two farmers on the donkey trail, who were like swearing at us, "what are you doing here? Why do you bring the elephants to us"?

[00:13:00] Dani: Exactly, 'cause they didn't realize that we are following the elephants and not the outer way around. And I think such behaviour, I haven't noticed in my later visits anymore. I feel like there's much more understanding for the necessity, uh, to cooperate and, um, the benefits to have elephants around, they're not just seen as a threat anymore.

You obviously went as a Swiss person. who else goes there to volunteer, where do the people come from? What sort of backgrounds do they have?

[00:14:05] André: That's cool.

And what is it like when you're there? 'cause I'm sure that there's no four star guest house with little soaps and frilly towels for you to enjoy after a day of building a wall.

[00:14:33] André: Oh, so you don't even sleep in a building

On Build Week, you might have some tents in case it rains. You will you bring them along, but most of the time, what all the people prefer, is like sleeping at the fire under the stars. And that's the basic life. The cooking is all done at the fire, and it's so good.

[00:15:13] Dani: Yes. Everybody who is a little bit outdoorsy, enjoys in nature, um, he will enjoy that and there's nothing to be afraid of.

[00:15:24] Dani: Well, if you're lucky and you sleep on the platform, there might be an elephant, like just feeding from the tree but this is completely harmless.

You wanna know a funny story?

[00:15:36] Dani: One night I was awakened, because something under my mat was disturbing me. There was a little mouse, who was digging the tunnel under my mat, and stealing my sleep.

Next morning, I came to the breakfast table, and then everybody was like, " oh, have you noticed the elephant who was feeding from the tree"?

The tree where we slept, where I lay under? And like, "no, I didn't". Such an irony. There's a little mouse waking me up, but the big elephant, I slept over that.

[00:16:13] Dani: Yeah. Believe me, that mouse was more active than a pea..

[00:16:19] Dani: Uh, they are, they're so impressive.

He didn't want to wake us up, he was just quietly snapping some leaves and they're moving on.

What do you personally gain from going to this project? Why do you keep going back? And I'm sure that you will go back again.

[00:17:08] André: I know that they're looking for volunteers all the time. Who would you recommend does something like this?

This is what makes the experience so special. It doesn't matter if you're old, or if you are young, just as long as you have a basic fitness, you can go there, and you will be able to contribute to the project.

[00:17:55] Dani: Absolutely. I'm a hundred percent sure that nobody who was ever there will ever forget that experience.

[00:18:09] Dani: It was actually my first visit, the second patrol week, where we have been with, uh, the Damara family in the north. And they were so enthusiastic that we came there to help with the wall. The whole family was helping.

The daughters were mixing cements, and the boys were collecting rocks. They were very happy and there was such a cool spirits during that week. Yeah, so we finished the wall within one build week. Usually, you have to know, it takes about two weeks. One group lays the foundation, makes the first meter. And then the second group comes and finishes the wall.

[00:18:49] Dani: The wall is about shoulder height of an adult man. And it's about on the base, 50 centimetre wide.

[00:18:59] Dani: The diameter of a wall is, I guess, about four meters in average.

[00:19:14] Dani: No, you have to understand, um, you need to start from the base. You are collecting all the rocks in the area. You are collecting the sand from the area. You are mixing the cement, and then you have to put all that together.

[00:19:41] Dani: Yeah, exactly. The only thing you bring along is the tools, and the bags of cement.

[00:19:50] Dani: Yes. And they were so amazed and so grateful that we, uh, built that wall. They slaughtered one of their goats for us, which is a very precious thing for them. Um, they cooked it for us, and then served us some of the best malva pudding I ever had, in the middle of the desert. I don't know how they did that, but it was lekker.

[00:20:22] Dani: Uh, they did for us. Yeah. That's unforgettable. Yeah.

[00:20:35] Dani: Yes, it is. And as I know what they expect, I like to watch their faces and see their reactions. Most of them, like 99.9%, they are amazed, it's very positive they are, um, well prepared for what's expected. But there is the occasional exceptions. I remember well this guy from New York. He must have had such a bad travel agent. He expected to have a, elephant safari in lodges, and that the wall building is just like a once off activity, more something like a symbolic act.

Oh, so it was something. Then he arrived and he realized, alright, one week just building walls. He was a bit shocked at the beginning.

[00:21:21] Dani: No, he, he did bring the sleeping bag. About that he was informed. But what I liked that in the end, he enjoyed it anyway. He had his fun, and he had a good time.

[00:21:35] Dani: Well, sorry, I have to bore you for me, for all that reasons, it's Damaraland because I have this personal connection there. Because I'm so fascinating about the coexistence of the farmers and the wildlife. All that wilderness there, and the stars, and the landscape.

Dani, thank you so, so much for taking us on a journey through this project, and your life changing experience.

[00:22:05] André: And I wish you a lot of luck, and fun the next time you go, which I'm sure will be soon.

[00:22:11] André: Today we talked about the "Elephant Human Relation Aid" project in Namibia, and how the experience of working there turned Daniel's life as a bank employee upside down in a good way. It's always fantastic when people discover a purpose in their life, especially when it has to do with Africa.

In the show notes, you'll find a link to EHRA; and if you want to read more or even take part yourself, you can find the information there.

Has Africa changed your life too? Tell us on Instagram, africa_with_andre, or send me an email to podcast at africawithandre.com.

Until the next time!