Episode Summary

In this episode of the Make Space for More podcast, host Melissa Swink and Senior VA Sara Sutton discuss the essential building blocks of working with virtual assistants (VAs). They discuss the professional commitment of VAs, what to expect when you first start to work with a VA,  and the importance of taking time to develop a solid rhythm. 

Tune in to learn about the importance of feedback, the onboarding process, and the need for clear communication to ensure a successful partnership. They also address the challenges and red flags that may arise and how to navigate them. 

Key Highlights:

• Most VAs are committed professionals, not just side hustlers.
• Building a strong relationship with your VA takes time, and the onboarding process is crucial for success.
• Not every VA-client relationship will be a perfect fit.
• Communication and feedback are key to a successful partnership with your VA.
• Most VAs are managing multiple clients - and this is a good thing, for you!
• Confidentiality is paramount in VA-client relationships.
• What to do if you experience red flags with your VA.

About Our Guest: 

Sara Sutton lives in San Antonio, TX, with her husband, five children, and their dog, Sasha. Her family enjoys traveling, camping, and hiking together. In her free time, she enjoys running and reading. With over 10 years of experience as a virtual assistant, Sara has worked with clients across a wide range of industries. She is passionate about handling tasks, both big and small, that allow her clients to focus on what truly matters in their personal and professional lives.

About Melissa:

Melissa Swink, Founder & CEO of Melissa Swink & Co., has a team of virtual assistants who provide administrative and marketing support for small businesses and non-profits.

Since 2012, Melissa and her team have helped more than 100 businesses grow through the services they offer, and she is dedicated to helping entrepreneurs create profitable, scalable businesses they love.

Her work is all about doing what works (and eliminating what doesn’t) and driving real, measurable results. Visit www.melissaswink.com to learn more! 

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Hi everyone, welcome to the Make Space for More podcast where we talk strategies for growing and scaling your business in a way that's authentic and aligned for you. I'm your host, Melissa Swink, and in today's episode, I have a very special guest joining me, one of the senior VAs on our team, Sarah Sutton. So I will introduce Sarah in just a moment here, but wanna set the tone for what we're gonna talk about today. But briefly, before I do, I wanted to recap.

Last week's episode, I also had one of the senior VAs on our team, Marissa Reether on that episode. If you haven't had a chance, go back and listen to it because Marissa and I talked about the idea of giving up control and why it's so hard to give up control, but also why it's important to give up control. And of course, we're talking about some control, not of course, let everyone and everything take over your life and your business.

but the things that you know that you need to release because you can't hold all of it. We're going to talk about then most importantly, some of the tips and tools and strategies that we help our clients use in order to release control of the appropriate things to hand off and then ultimately be able to free up your time and energy. I think the most important thing that I wanted to share about that conversation was Marissa was using the word control.

And then I was thinking about it that I think of this in terms of freedom. And so it was interesting how it was two different words, but on the same coin. Like, for example, I shared even in my own business, when I started my business, I wanted time freedom. I also wanted freedom to choose who I worked with and what work I did and when I did that. And then Marissa actually turned it on its head and shared in her own business that she

wanted to control her time. She wanted to control who she worked with. And so it was just an interesting play on words of control versus freedom. So if you haven't gotten a chance to listen to that one, go back because there's some really good pieces in there, especially those of us who are self-proclaimed control freaks, perfectionists, all of that. So you're going to want to take a listen. In today's episode, Sarah and I are going to be peeling back the curtain and giving you a glimpse into the professional lives of virtual assistants.

And you might wonder like, that's great. Like I'm kind of curious about how virtual assistants do all of these things, but this is going to be very helpful for you in order to really maximize your working relationship with a virtual assistant. So today we're going to give you a behind the scenes look of how they're able to support a variety of clients in a variety of industries and what they need most from you in order to be successful. So before we dive in, I would love to formally introduce Sarah Sutton.

She lives in San Antonio, Texas with her husband and five children and their dog, Sasha. Her family enjoys traveling, camping, and hiking together. And her free time, she enjoys running and reading. With over 10 years of experience as a virtual assistant, Sarah has worked with clients across a wide range of industries. She is passionate about handling tasks, both big and small, that allow her clients to focus on what truly matters in their personal and professional lives.

Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your incredibly full schedule to be with us today.

I'm very happy to be here. is a usually you and I chat in very small snippets, so it's nice to have an actual conversation.

Yes, absolutely. So in the spirit of sharing more about behind the scenes and giving you a glimpse behind the curtain, I meet with our senior VA team usually about once a month to recap how things are going with team, how things are going with clients, talk about some of the things that we might be able to continue to approve upon and such. But in between those calls, we use a tool called Boxer, which is like a walkie talkie voice messaging app.

And so you're right, Sarah, we talk in small snippets on Voxer like all the time. So this is kind of an extended conversation from that today. Yeah, yeah. So today I want to focus on eight secrets your VA wants you to know. I think that really sums up the things that we had talked about that we wanted to share for today. So the first one that we wanted to dive into is this is your VA's job. This is not

necessarily a side hustle. This is not their hobby. This isn't just something that they're doing to potentially pick up work on the side of what they're doing. Do you want to share more about that?

Yeah, and one of the reasons why this jumped out to me is that I know I have met with people that, when you're just talking about what does a VA do, and they will say things like, I had someone down the street help me a little bit, or I used to work with someone and I don't know, they kind of just fizzled out, or I never heard from them again.

And that is like a very different approach from the way, you know, I look at being a VA, I know your team members look at a VA like, this is our job, like we're committed to it. We want a long term commitment. That's like the best situation. And then because of that, there are definite professional, I guess I would kind of say parameters or expectations that are set up. So if someone is looking to work with a VA and that VA comes in and they have

You know, some things laid out as far as like a contract, invoicing, payments, know, even like deadlines and when they need something to meet your deadline, like those are good things. Like don't be put off by those things that are put in place because ultimately if your VA is approaching their work as like, this is their business, this is their career, it's going to just be a better result for the client.

100%. I think this is the word that's standing out to me. And this is something that's been relevant to a lot of conversations I've been having with other business owners in similar industries is what is the container in which we're working together? What does that look like? And so yeah, when you talk about contracts, when you talk about, you know, maybe boundaries on here's when I'm available to serve you, here's when I'm not, because this is the work that we do to provide for our families and put food on the table.

Yeah, and we like, love the clients I work with and a lot of times I get to know things about, their kids or their pets or things like that. But ultimately it still is a job and it still is like, so they can always expect that I will approach it with like professionalism. There's some things about, you know, the way we communicate and the times of day, like you said, that we communicate, it's just to maintain that professional relationship. And it just makes everything run more smoothly.

Agreed, 100%. But then also going into the second thing we wanted to share in terms of secrets that VA's want you to know is that on the flip side, your VA is not magic either because we are working with a variety of people in a variety of industries and then we certainly have our personal commitments on top of all of that. That's part of the parameters in that container in which we work with our clients.

for sure. you know, I love when I talk to someone and they say that like they just, you know, their assistant has turned their business around. They couldn't live without their assistant. And I 100 % believe that's true, but it didn't happen immediately. Like there is definitely a, it takes a while to build that relationship. You're not going to see results like day of. I would say my guess would be at least a month if not.

a few months to really get into a super good rhythm and groove with your client. And that's I love the time that you have put into the onboarding process. we've, senior VAs, have talked a lot with you about how do we onboard our clients? And so if clients just trust the onboarding process that their experienced VA has, you will definitely get to that point where you're like, my gosh, my VA changed my life. It just doesn't happen overnight.

I love that. There's so much that we can unpack there in terms of really the overall lift of just starting to work with a new client and then getting into that groove because a lot can happen and a lot can be uncovered in especially the first, I would say, 90 days of working with one another. I'm thinking of an example of we had a client hire us who very much functioned

on his own in his business. He was a solo purdueur and he had some very manual things in place. I'm not knocking this because everybody has a starting point, but for example, he had a paper calendar with all of his appointments and he wanted to get to a point where he had a fully functional CRM system where customers could book on his calendar electronically. If you think about like, I'm going to hire a VA,

who knows this type of system or has done this type of work before, and they're just going to wave a magic wand and get this set up for me. And yes, that's partially true, where hiring the right person with the right expertise can absolutely get this done for you and save you a whole lot of time and probably save you from some serious mistakes in the process. But we also have to recognize that there are steps involved with going from paper calendar to like fully online self.

functioning calendar, there's a lot of lift in that process. And you might uncover things within your own workflows that you're like, let me think about that for a minute because in order to do this, first I need to do that. And so that's what we talk about. think when we're referring to that onboarding process is there can be a lot of steps revealed that maybe weren't as obvious when we first started out on this journey. Yeah, yeah.

The other thing is too, is depending on why you hired a virtual assistant in the first place, maybe you had an additional project in mind and maybe you do work together on that particular project. But now that your VA has a sense of the type of work that you do and who you're working with, there are probably many other things that they can do to support you and help keep the business moving forward and take some things off your plate.

Yeah, I always ask my clients to have like a back burner list. Like if you had all the time in the world, what would you do? Because it's amazing, like when you have someone supporting you, like you could get to that list and like actually get through it pretty quickly. And these are the things that maybe for like years you've been hoping to get to.

You're right, you're right. How many times have people said, it's been, you know, for years I've wanted to launch a new website or for years I have wanted to do more speaking engagements, but because they're running their day-to-day business, they have not had the time to dedicate in order to make that happen. And then when you have the right people on the team or the right virtual assistant, all of a sudden they're able to start, you know, doing some reach outs to book some speaking engagements or.

they're able to create another landing page on your website to promote this thing. there's a lot, think the biggest thing is what I have found in the way that we work with our clients, continuity is huge and that investment in time has multiplied the results.

Yeah, so then as far as diving into the next thing, so we started talking about CRM tools in that particular example, and this is just one of many because we'll have clients come to us and say, you know, I'm looking to build out my CRM and insert whatever CRM here because there are hundreds if not thousands out there. Some of them are very general and very popular. Some of them are very industry specific.

And so they'll say, do you have a VA who knows this system? And my answer may or may not be no, but we do have work in similar CRMs and all of them do function fairly similarly with some exceptions. So in other words, we can talk about different systems that every client, the system that every client uses are different. But then also we work with so many different people in a variety of industries that we're Googling a lot.

There, the secret is out. It's really that simple, you guys. We do a lot of Googling.

We do. actually, this happened with a client the other day on a call and they were asking for something and they were using a very specific term and I thought I had an idea of what they were looking for but we were kind of talking past each other. And so I just, while on the call, I just did like a quick Google search. I was like, okay, what it sounds like you're looking for is this. And they're like, yeah, that's exactly it. But they just didn't know like how to ask for it. But because I've been doing this for so many years, like,

And you see so many platforms. Like I knew it to Google. And then I just told the client, you know, I know that can be done. I personally haven't done it. And that's the like the perk of working on a team rather than just on your own is I could tell the client, like if I don't know how to do it, someone and Melissa's team does. And so I got off the call, did a couple more like Google searches, immediately sent an email, said, actually, this is super easy. Like I can get this done by tomorrow. But, you know, they were concerned that I didn't know.

you

like exactly how to do it because I've done enough systems that I had a pretty general idea of how to get it done.

Yes, I think you and I have talked about this because both Sarah and I have been in this industry for more than a decade. And so we both started at a time where this was a somewhat new concept for a lot of people. And we spent a lot of time just learning how to do all the things. If the client said they needed us to do an email newsletter, well, guess what? We're writing an email newsletter and then we're figuring out if they didn't already have an existing one.

what software we could use. I'll give you the short answer back then. It was like always MailChimp, right? Like MailChimp was probably the most popular and it still certainly is, but there are so many out there now. But you were Googling things all day long and figured out, I mean, I think when I started my business, ultimately kind of on the same tone was that I didn't know what I specialized in at that point or what was my

Yes.

I don't know, my area of expertise. And so we would just say yes to all the things, whatever the client needed, and just figured it out. And I think, you know, to a lot of degrees that served us well, because we have such a a wide range of experience, and we have that as a foundation. So even if it's something that we're not an expert in, we can usually kind of dabble our way through it, unless it truly gets to, unless it truly does warrant

bringing in an expert and somebody with extensive experience to do the thing.

For sure. And that was one of the other sort of secrets, I guess, that you and I had talked about was that your VA probably can't do everything and they shouldn't. Yes.

I was going to say here's the flip side of that, secret for is, and also one person can't do everything.

Right, for sure. And if you are looking to bring on an assistant and they say, like, yeah, I can do graphic design and bookkeeping and your marketing and all the things, like, there's probably a good chance that maybe they have like a kind of a general knowledge of all those things, that you really can't be an expert in everything. And so that kind of is a little bit of a red flag. I think.

Probably which is even more of a red flag is if someone were to ask their VA to do something and they just said, no, I can't and that ended the conversation. Like that would be a red flag as well. So it's always nice. You know, I try to offer a solution if it's something like I do not do bookkeeping. We happen to have a fantastic bookkeeper and I don't do graphic design. We have a fantastic graphic designer. So and if it's something that our like our team doesn't do, we can refer it out to someone else that we know can.

but the answer should never just be no.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. That brings up a great point. And I think that's really what we're trying to illustrate here when it comes to one person skill set and knowledge base is could you, for instance, Sarah, create a simple graphic in Canva where we can pull a template that is easy, right? Like that's something that many VAs can do. If the client is looking for a logo or branding or, you know, a highly customized graphic,

100%, that's when we start bringing in the graphic designer. So it's also knowing kind of that where are we getting to the limits of our own knowledge and when do we need to bring in an expert? And I think the best VAs are self-aware enough to make that call. And so to your point, a red flag, there were two red flags that you pointed out and I wanna explore two of these, both of them I should say.

is the first one being if you meet a VA who says that they can do all of these things, that it's potentially a red flag. And you're right. I know personally when I interview VA's for the team, I will ask them, what are three things that you would love to do all day, every day, if you could? And that really gives me a sense of where their skill set lies and where their interests lie. Because we want people doing things that they love and are naturally good at.

they are naturally good at.

for sure. And I love that, that it's not just like, could you do it? But it's like, do you want to be doing it? Are you like interested in like improving your skills in that area? Rather than just like, I yeah, like you said, I could, I could churn out some things on Canva, but they're not going to be the same as a graphic designer.

Right, right, exactly. And knowing the difference, knowing the difference and knowing when to bring in somebody else. But I also love that you pointed out if you're having a conversation with a client or, you know, client and VA are having a conversation about something that they need support on and the VA is like, I don't know how to do that. And then you can just hear like the wah, wah, like, because we're trying to learn to be better and better at delegating. I don't care who you are or how small or large your team is if you're working alone.

Mm-hmm.

or if you're the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, we're always trying to figure out what do I truly need to be spending my time on and what can somebody else hand off. And so when we do try to hand something off and then it just kind of flat lines right there, that certainly can be a red flag. I think that the best VAs will say, hey, that's something that I am not personally familiar with, but...

Tell me a little bit more about what you're looking for and I can help find someone else who can. They can help kind of bridge that gap and maybe even manage the project of working with that person who has that expertise. Always offering solutions. Absolutely, absolutely. So shifting gears a little bit, I know we've been talking a lot about skill set, but then also there's a time management piece in there because as we mentioned,

for sure.

VAs are working with a variety of clients in a variety of different industries. And so the secret that we want to reveal here, and you probably know this, but it's an inconvenient truth is what I like to call it. You are not your VA's only client. There, I've said it. I said it out loud. We're supposed to make every client feel like they're our only client, but the truth is that we're juggling many.

I know, I know.

Right, I know, and that is something that you want to be able to do everything that your client needs. Like, I would love it if a client sent me a message and like, can you do this right away? But probably what is happening is I am probably working on a different client's work in that moment. And that would be me turning away that client's work to focus on, you yours, this new client.

And so I do, you know, clients and this very, I would say very seldom in my 10 years, has this ever really been an issue where, you know, the expectation is that something is done immediately. It just really doesn't, it doesn't really become an issue. I think partly because that expectation, those parameters are laid out in the beginning of the relationship. But what it does, you know, we can just remind our clients that, you know, just like you wouldn't want me to stop doing your work and then all of sudden shift gears to a different client. I'm not going to do the same.

And then that usually kind of resolves any conflict there.

Yeah, absolutely. Because then on the flip side, your VA is helping you with something that is time sensitive and very important for your business, maybe you've got a presentation happening tomorrow and you guys are putting the finishing touches on the landing page for ultimately the offer that you're going to be selling at that presentation. And then your VA gets interrupted by another client of theirs and then your work ultimately doesn't get done or then

VA has to go back and like, was I at with this? And maybe the quality isn't quite as good as what it could have been if they were heads down and focusing on that. You'd be on the receiving end of that as well, just putting it on the flip side. But it does go back to establishing some of these boundaries and parameters on response times and what the overall flow of communication looks like. The other thing is too that I want to touch on is sometimes clients get

a little bit uncomfortable about how many businesses does my VA support and how do I know that they're not sharing information about my business that they shouldn't be.

Yeah, and that really is something that I think you would get a feel. If I were the client, I think I would get the feeling right away. And that goes back to that professional relationship. What are these conversations with my VA like? Do I get the feeling? Are they sharing with me information about other clients? I know myself, I don't think I've ever really mentioned to another client who my other clients are. I just don't share it. It's confidential.

But there are definite things that you can learn from working with one client. And if you see something that you're like, this is working really well, like we've started this new system or even just an email management tool or just anything that is working really well, then I can take that and suggest it to another client. And again, not sharing any confidential information, but just saying like, I have another client and this really turned this around for them. Would you be interested in trying it? So it's really a benefit.

Agreed, absolutely. And that's something that I share with clients who are maybe hesitant. like, well, if this person's serving a variety of businesses, first of all, how are they gonna really get to know my business? And how do I know, let's say this person is in a highly competitive industry, like let's say a realtor. Now we have several realtor clients that we serve in our company, and I can tell you that they're all in different locations, and that does matter.

I realized that many realtors can assist buyers or sellers in different places, but for the most part, they've got their footprint in a geographical area. Sometimes we can say, hey, one of our other clients has found some success in reaching out to clients via this method of communication or their newsletter open rate went up 25 % when we started sharing.

We just

a funny story about something goofy that happened at an open house. I'm purely making this up off the cuff, but you get the idea where we're of course not sharing trade secrets. We're not sharing details and names and facts and figures, but it's like, hey, this really worked over here. What do you think about us trying it? Sharing the best of the best where it's appropriate and applicable. Yeah.

Yes.

So going into, we talked about kind of the overall container of working with a VA and setting kind of the parameters around the work together. We talked about how it does take some time in order to develop that relationship and really build that delegation habit. Talked about skill sets. We talked about maybe some of the inconvenient truths, but also some of the benefits of these. Let's talk a little bit about the overall working relationship with a VA because I think the biggest thing

that we want our clients to know is that we really do want your feedback.

Yeah, for sure. Because I think most, if there is any issue, it almost always can be straightened out. It's just, it's very disheartening when you all of a sudden get a notice from a client that they want to terminate. And you're just like, I didn't even know there was a problem. And so that is, that's why like, and because we work remotely, and I think that is a concern sometimes with people that are not used, maybe they've had an in-house assistant. They're like, but I'm never going to see the person.

And because you work remotely, it's so easy to read into an email. You're not having that. We check in pretty regularly with our clients, but there's a lot of emails or Slack messages, there's things going back and forth in between check-ins. And so I don't want to be guessing like, that email was kind of short. they, are they upset with me? Did they not like this? I don't want to be, I would rather have a client say like, yeah, that didn't work out well.

I really want to change this for next time rather than me having to guess.

Yes, yes, absolutely. So, you know, don't think that you're being rude or, you know, going to hurt our feelings, especially in the beginning of that working relationship. Now, I can say too that this is very few and far between over the years where we have had clients who have, I would say, scarred on their first cut of, you know, they have come in hard and unnecessarily harsh and negative with some of their comments. That, I can tell you, is a very unusual scenario. I usually air

I see clients erring towards the side of, I don't want to tell her I didn't like that social media post because I know that she put this time and energy into it. And so maybe I just won't use that one. And then, you know, and then we keep creating that same type of content and they're like, okay, now I've paid for X number of posts that I haven't used. It'd be far easier just to let them know, hey, I'm not going to use this one this time around. Here's what I would like to see.

different in the future. And, you know, of course I'm shooting off the cuff here, but we want that feedback because that's just going to be able to help us continue to grow and evolve and better the support that we can offer.

For sure. we most experienced VAs have been doing this long enough that we are not going to sit in a corner and cry if something doesn't go well. We were not perfect. And I know that not everything that I put out is exactly what the client maybe was looking for. And there's just no way for it to get better, like you said, unless I know that changes need to be made.

you

Right. Yes, yes, absolutely. So let's go to the dark side here for a moment of kind of the ultimately what we're trying to avoid is if you're finding that this is just not the right fit.

Right. you know, if you as a client are thinking that, your VA might be thinking it too, because sometimes it just isn't. Like it could be something as simple as time zones. Like we, I know, have run into that before where we have like what vastly different time zones and there is an, you know, a need for something to be done at a specific time. And that's a struggle for the VA to meet that because of a time zone thing. That is a super easy, like that makes total sense. There's no hard feelings. You can't change, you know, what time zone you're in.

But it could be something just like even communication style. You're just not meshing. And so if the client feels it, like the VA probably feels it too.

Yes, yes, absolutely. Sometimes people just don't click. Sometimes it's hard to fully diagnose where the breakdown is coming from. Sometimes it's hard to fully articulate, but it's just like oil and water where sometimes even though somebody has just the right skill set to support the client, they just cannot seem to get on the same page in their overall communication style.

Listen.

And that's okay. One of the things that I love most about being a team based virtual assistant agency is that when that happens, we do have other team members that we can rematch the client with. And then that way they're not starting from scratch in terms of going out and hiring a new VA and then completely onboarding them and training them and getting them access to the systems. We're able to do that in house with our senior VA team, which is really, really nice.

The other thing too that I wanted to touch on when we're talking about kind of when things go wrong or things don't go as smoothly as we would like, process is a huge part of this. Oftentimes when I see there being frustration or a breakdown in communication, sometimes it just boils down to let's review our process and see where the gaps are. To give you all an example of this, we had a client who was just very, very frustrated with the team.

when this was a couple of years ago when they were creating email newsletters for them. And once we really dove deeper into where's the breakdown, where are you feeling frustrated when it comes to the content we're creating for your email newsletter? She's like, well, there's only one subject line. And then I have to go back and I have to think through another subject line. And what she didn't say was that she used A-B testing for her subject line. So she needed two of them.

Well, so all we had to do once we were like, okay, that's where the breakdown's happening here. We went back to that email newsletter template that we created. It was a simple Google doc and we put subject line A, subject line B, and it was very clear to everyone on the team from the copywriter to the person who is in there and creating these beautiful email newsletters of every email needs to have two subject lines.

It was that simple. And then it was like problem solved. And I was like, my gosh, how much energy and frustration was burned because it was such a simple fix from a process standpoint.

Yeah, and that's one of the things I like about having the team, because sometimes it really just needs a fresh set of eyes. I have reached out to team members and said, this is something, is it right here? And then you get a couple of different opinions, or when the senior VAs check in with other team members. And sometimes it's just like, I didn't think of doing that, or I haven't tried that style. So usually it can be worked out.

Absolutely, absolutely. And as we're kind of talking about potential endings of relationships with VAs, whether it's just not a match and we need to find somebody else who is more aligned, sometimes people will discontinue working with their VA for good reasons as well. And we celebrate those.

Yes, yeah, for sure. I know it's happened to me a couple of times. I've like worked myself out of a job and that is totally fine. Sometimes when we are able to provide our clients with support and then all of a sudden they can actually like focus on growing their business, then whatever that looks like. So sometimes it's like they need someone now full time or they actually can open up a physical location and now they need, you know, a front desk person or something like that. And so when that happens, like,

I don't know, I'm not upset. I just celebrate with them, ask for a referral if they have one, a testimonial, and just be happy.

No.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And we have celebrated plenty of those over the years with our clients where they did, they got to a point where they were able to hire a receptionist for their office. And that receptionist was able to take on a lot of the remote work that our team was doing. There's so many examples here of that and we celebrate that 100%. So absolutely, absolutely. Well, Sarah, thank you so much.

For sure.

for sharing all of your knowledge and experience. And I love that these are some things that I think will ultimately help people better understand how a VA works, of behind the scenes, how they're managing all the tasks and projects, but also hopefully learn some ways that they can just better work with one another.

Yeah, for sure. Well, was fun talking about it with you.

Yes, absolutely. So everyone who is listening today, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to another episode of Make Space for More. If you know somebody who is either working with a VA currently or interested in hiring a VA, would you take a moment and just share this episode with them? Because I think that it might help them better understand all the mechanics of the behind the scenes of what goes into organizing a VA business, but then also how they can better work with.

others as they continue to grow their businesses as well. So thank you so much for tuning in and we'll be back next week with another episode of Make Space for More where we will talk more strategies for growing and scaling your business beyond you. Have a great day everyone. Bye bye.