Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee welcome guest, Paul Turner. Paul is the Coaching Director for Orchard NEO, an organization passionate about planting churches in Northeast Ohio and raising up church planters to spread the gospel throughout the area.

0:24 Lee introduces special guest, Paul Turner.

0:44 Paul introduces himself and explains his role at Orchard NEO.

1:19 Danny asks Paul to clear up any confusion of Orchard NEO being connected to another church planting organization. 

1:30 Paul explains that Orchard NEO is a regional church planting organization, funded by Christ Community Chapel. He also shares how they got their name.

2:04 Lee asks Paul what his passion is for church planters, through his role as Coaching Director.

2:14 Paul explains that he, himself, once planted a church. But the church didn’t last long, so after that, he began to think about what he wished he had when he was attempting to plant a church.

3:13 Danny asks Paul to talk about the connection between coaching and having resources, when planting a church.

3:54 Paul shares that having a ministry fully funded doesn’t mean a whole lot if the quality of the ministry suffers. Resources are necessary, but so is quality ministry.

4:53 Lee asks Paul what kind of candidates they are looking for in Northeast Ohio, to be successful church planters.

5:25 Paul explains the population landscape of the area, including three major cities.

5:56 Paul talks about what the religious backdrop of the area is, and how it affects the ability to plant churches.

7:15 Paul shares what Orchard NEO looks for in the men that should be planting churches in Northeast Ohio.

8:10 Expanding on what kind of church planters he’s looking for, Paul uses an analogy for those who feel the call to plant should be like a batter swinging for the fence.

8:44 Lee likes the imagery Paul uses when talking about church planting.

9:04 Lee asks Paul to speak about his experience coaching church planters who feel called to an urban setting.

9:33 Paul explains what planting in an urban setting can be like, when dealing with people’s needs due to not just poverty, but also trust issues. In his experience, once people are convinced someone is there to give, they will finally trust. But that can be a long process. It can take years to gain trust in an urban community.

11:27 Paul shares that those planting in an urban area need financial support from people who understand how long the church planting process could be. Growth will be slow, but loyalty happens.

12:23 Danny asks if someone from another area coming to Northeast Ohio to plant a church can be successful.

12:54 Paul welcomes people who aren’t native to the area, because they can see the community with fresh eyes. It can be a disadvantage to learn the culture and area, but it’s not impossible. Loving local people on their terms is more important than where the planter comes from.

14:03 Lee asks Paul what he would say to a church planter who is on the fence about attending an assessment center.

14:25 Paul answers that he thinks having someone affirm your strengths is important to sort out a calling.

15:33 Paul praises Converge’s church planting assessment process and the focus on the mission of finding church planters who have been called by God to do so.

16:17 Lee thanks Paul for sharing his story and passion for Northeast Ohio.

Lee Stephenson: Hey, everyone. I want to welcome you to the Unfiltered podcast. My name is Lee Stephenson. I'm a church planter in Orlando and have the opportunity to oversee Church Planting with Converge.

Danny Parmelee: I'm Danny Parmelee. And I oversee Church Planting for Converge MidAmerica and Southeast.

Lee Stephenson: And we got a special guest all the way in from Ohio, here in Orlando. We are literally recording live in the middle of one of our standard Church Planting Assessment Centers, and got to meet my new friend Paul Turner. So, Paul, I'll let you just take a moment. Introduce yourself. Tell us a little...what do you do in Ohio?

Paul Turner: Hello, hello. So, for you all who don't know, I hail from the Lord's city, Cleveland, Ohio. All right? So, what I do is I am co-founder of a church planting organization called Orchard NEO. The NEO stands for Northeast Ohio. And what I currently do actively is just I'm the coaching director. I'm over pretty much making sure we get our guys from start to finish, essentially. From the moment they get into the program, to the moment we let them off, let them off the hook into the wild to do their own thing - church planting. So that's in large part what I do. And yeah, that's why I'm here and excited to be down.

Danny Parmelee: I got a question for you. First of all, I love the name. But the first time I heard it...is that The Orchard Group, you know, there's another church planting organization. Is it connected to it? Not connected to it?

Paul Turner: Yeah, so we are not connected to The Orchard Group. Right? If I'm not clear, if I just say, "Orchard," everybody... If you're tapped in and you know, you think, "Who are you guys?" Orchard, Northeast Ohio. We are not connected to them. We are a regional church plant that came from the idea of the founding pastor. I mean, I'm sorry, the lead pastor of the church that funds it, which is Christ Community Chapel. And he just said he had a vision for being able to plant churches and you can just go to a church almost like you pick it out of an orchard. Right? So that was where we got our name and in Northeast Ohio there. We've been doing it ever since.

Lee Stephenson: Now, you're a coaching director. What is the thing inside of you that makes you tick? And why you see coaching being so important for church planters?

Danny Parmelee: So, this is really interesting. You said your biggest issue or challenge that you kind of realized was the lack of resources, meaning financial resources. But you felt that the solution was coaching. Not just okay, somehow I just have to get a whole bunch of money and give it away to other church planters. So, speak to that a little bit of maybe what the connection is, with coaching and resources.

Paul Turner: Yeah. So, it was a "both/and" thing. But that was... The money thing was an easy thing. We linked up with a church that was generous. Problem solved, right? But even if we would have been fully funded, there would have been... It would have bought us more time. But that doesn't deal with the quality of what I would have been doing. Right? And so, you had to kind of marry both of the ideas together where yes, now we have funding but now the funding needs to be stewarded well in a way that produces or allows the guys to make a quality process so that, look, we can really as the church give ourselves more leeway in these areas to push back the darkness that exists there. And so, resources are a necessary thing. Like this world, if we don't work you don't eat. It's scriptural that we need to work every day, right? Or there's a connection. But same for church planting. But it's just not the end of it. Right? It's not the only thing that we take for. So just trying to marry both of those ideas and saying, "Now let's do...be quality now that we have funding." You know, I think gives guys a better opportunity to push back to darkness in their context.

Lee Stephenson: That's great. Now, tell us a little bit about Northeast Ohio. What kind of candidates, what are you looking for? Who's going to be successful in planting a church in that area of the country?

Paul Turner: Yeah, man. So Northeast Ohio- it's an interesting place. So, apart from it being God's country, it's a lot of, uh...

Lee Stephenson: He's just reminding us.

Danny Parmelee: I've heard him say, at least 10 times this week, already. So, if you say it enough, it's gonna come true, right?

Paul Turner: I want it to become subconscious to you. I want you guys think of Cleveland that way. But no, so the funny thing about... so, Northeast Ohio is a 20 county area, right. And it is made up of about 4.4 million people with three larger cities. The largest being Cleveland, which is about 400,000 people. Akron, where LeBron James was from, it's about 170,000. And then Canton, Ohio, it's about 70,000. And the funny thing about Cleveland is, the funny thing about Northeast Ohio, is that we have most city type of dynamics. We have rural, we have suburban, we have urban, we've got inner city. Like in that 20 county, you're gonna find one of those paces of a city, right. And so the weird thing is, the actual kind of backdrop religiously of Northeast Ohio, is that it is very much like Bible Belt Christianity. Where like we have to do... everybody knows the name of Jesus. But the church plant does mean you got to do a great deal of deconstructing or to evangelize. You got a great deal of deconstructing, and actually convincing people that what they think they have believed, that has allowed them to be where they are and who they are, is actually not as scripturally true. And so that's the backdrop where we have a lot of churches, to be honest. We do. We have a lot of churches. Thousands of churches in Northeast Ohio. But it has become, like, the culture of Christianity is what we've become known for. And not necessarily the grace that the church should be. And as we started this, we scoured through every church planting organization. Acts 29, Harbor Network. Some of these other...no one had any flagship churches in Northeast Ohio. So, I realized what I was experiencing, others would also acknowledge as well. We said, "Man, this is a place that is very ripe, because there's a lot of great things there." Right? But I think if we can kind of mix it up with what the Lord has called the church to be now in a more relevant way to engage and push back darkness, I think we have a better shot at trying to... really try to reach Northeast Ohio. So that's what Northeast Ohio is like. Now, to answer what we're looking for in kind of in church planters in that area. I would say, man we're looking for... We want guys that are just convinced that the call of their life is to church plant. Like, that is more than anything. Like, that on the nights where you're discouraged, or the days that you don't know if you're going to have enough money for whatever. On the days that you like... When I was planting when I had to deal with murders. You know, while marriages were falling apart, right? I had to deal with people who said I just don't have time for stuff. And people said, I don't have enough money to pay bills. So, I've had just a plethora of things that I had to deal with during that time, right. But I know that the thing that over all of that, that kept me going was I knew I was called to do this right? I know that the Lord was calling me to plant. And even though it didn't work, alright. I realize, I wasn't called to plant the church that would become a mega church, right? I was called to be faithful. Get into the batter's box and swing for Jesus. No matter what. And that's what I was called... And I want guys that... Hey, man look, my church plant may be great, my church plant may not, my church plant may fail. Right? Whatever. But as long as I'm being faithful to Jesus, he will take care of the rest. And that's the guy that if they understand that calling, mixed with them having a visionary capacity to mix that up with what they believe God is calling them to do that doesn't exist. Those are the guys that we want to see come up and just mix it up in Northeast Ohio. No matter where they are. Come to Northeast Ohio. Put those things together and let's mix it up. And let's try to reach the area.

Lee Stephenson: I love the imagery that you created there of, "Hey, just... Are you willing to get in the batter's box and swing away?" And you know, you do everything you can to refine the swing. Pick up the ball. Sometimes you're going to miss. Sometimes you're going to connect. And I think even from your own personal story, like that's a mature perspective to have. Understand the kingdom of God operates not necessarily on our standards. Paul, talk to us too about, you know, based on your experience in the area, also your planting experience, your coaching experience. We have a lot of listeners from all kinds of different backgrounds that listen to the podcast. Some are focused on urban for instance, what would you say? How would you coach somebody that is feeling the call to go into an urban setting. Go no, I would do this before you land or before you launch in order to be successful.

Paul Turner: I think in the venture of church planting, you only move as fast as trust will allow. Right? So in an area like in an urban place or an inner city place, right, where we're talking about places that probably... I'm not saying all are, right? Some probably are dealing with poverty. Dealing with, like, a lot of felt needs. And in a lot of poverty or poverty stricken places, it's not just they don't have access to resources but they also are relationally deficient. Right? And so, when you go into a place like that, you can't just say, "I'm going to come on the trust of the church." So, if I build it, they will come, right. Because the reality is that circle of trust for the average person in that area is very small. And so the reality is, if you need trust to move somebody along, or to even disciple them into that space, before you're invited into that space, in an area, like an urban context, or an inner city, you have to be there for a long time. For them to know, this person is actually here for us, you know. Again, I come from the inner city of Cleveland. So, I know when a new thing comes, and you can tell that it's not really for us, it's for them. Right? We become more skeptical of it. We actually walk away from it more often. We don't want to give it as much time, right? It's because in those spaces, those people need to know that you don't want anything from them, but you actually are there for their bettering. And that once they're convinced of that, now you have the ability to do the building blocks of discipleship. And the problem is time orientations just work so differently there. So, it may be five years before you get to that space. Five years of everyday walking the streets, coaching, maybe finding a job there. Hosting like a spades tournament every week at your house, whatever, right? It takes years and years of doing that, to really till the ground and the soil in order to actually start planting. And I think like, that's the one thing I tell anybody. If you're going into an urban area, right, you need to be linked up with financially, right, financially, I think, linked up with someone who's willing to fund you indefinitely, right. Someone who's willing to say, "We will support you and your vision, no matter how long it takes." So, that they have the opportunity to not split their time in their context. Because that's some of the issue right? In urban context. Like, I grew up in a place where the pastor was also preaching, opening the church and working another job. And so, the reality is, his time was always going to be split, right. He could never give all to his context and actually needed it the most. So, I would say, for anybody, make sure you've got some type of net like that. But also get into that area, and just be there for a long time. Not trying to move anybody along or anything, but just loving and engaging. And I think once you start to break that...probably you will have slow growth. But once you have that slower growth, once those people are there, they're gonna stay. And I think that's kind of what I'd say to anybody heading in the church planting area. Time just works different and be prepared for it.

Danny Parmelee: You hit on this a little bit, but I'm curious if transplant works. So in other words, if people maybe it's even listeners listening to this, they're not from Northeast Ohio. And they're like, "Well, man, that actually kind of sounds intriguing." Does it work to have someone from outside the culture to move? So, let's say someone is in Florida. Or someone's in California. And they contacted you. And they're like, "Hey, should I do this?" How would you respond to that?

Paul Turner: Yeah, I would say there's an ideal, right? And then there's a space where we know that God can do anything, right? So, the idea would be, yeah, you'd want the... whoever goes any place was raised up there, so that they don't have to go through the curve of learning and understanding the culture. But for someone who's not from that culture, they see it from fresh eyes. So I didn't realize. It's so funny. I didn't realize certain things even about my community until I was outside of my community, right? Because to me, it was just normal. You know what I mean? Like, fishes don't know that they're wet, right? Whatever the bait is, right? So, like, you don't know that. And oftentimes, it is helpful, right to have people that are not from that culture or not from that area. I don't say necessarily culture, but not from that area. To come in, because they see things. So, they may see things that the person there doesn't see. Does it give you... Is it a bit of a disadvantage? I would say so. Right. But is it impossible? And can it be helpful? I would say, Yeah, I just think it just depends on how well that person's ability is to get into an area and truly want to learn from it and engage the people there. And love them on their terms. Right. I think that probably matters more than where they come from.

Lee Stephenson: Now, I know that this week is a new experience for you from an assessment standpoint. For planters out there that may be teetering back and forth, like should I go through an assessment? Or can I just skip and just go plant a church? Based on kind of your experience, even this week, or previous, what advice would you give them?

Paul Turner: Yeah, I would say, Hey, listen, you. The Lord gave us the church for a reason. Right? And I would say that if you have and you need other voices outside of yourself to affirm certain things in you. I'll be honest. I didn't plant a church because I wanted to. I didn't become a pastor because I wanted to necessarily. It was because my leaders called it out of me. They said we see this particular gifting in you. We've seen it and we think you should pursue it, right. And at that point, I had to really come to a conflict of what I believed, right? Do I believe that the Lord has given my leaders, as people who would shepherd me, as one who had given account to him, right. Will I listen to him? Would I listen to them, right, or would I just say, "Ah, nah. I don't want to. I don't feel like it." So, I investigated it. Prayed about it. And through that voice and through that calling, that's the way the Lord used that to speak and affirm to me what I should be doing. And so, I would say, anybody who's trying to look into that realm, you need those secondary voices. You need those tertiary voices, to help kind of sort out that calling. Because when God's gonna move, he's going to use his people. And don't stop believing in that just because it's something you feel like you want to do. So, I would say, go through an assessment. Come down, talk to people who genuinely love Jesus. And that's one thing I would say about the assessment center here. Because I harp on you guys is that I've been blown away by how deliberate you all have been, right? But also, how focused on the mission, right? So, you guys tell guys, it's not just about a job, right? This is a calling. And we want to help and do the work to help you sort that out. And I would say anybody who goes through needs to go to or be a part of an assessment that is willing to and wants to keep you on the mission, in hopes to see you go to the calling that God has called you to. So, I'd say it's... if you don't go through one or you don't do one, then I'd say man, it'd be difficult for me to say that you know that you've kind of exhausted all the voices before you stepped into the venture.

Lee Stephenson: Well said. You heard it right here. Get to the assessment.

Paul Turner: Make it happen.

Danny Parmelee: I guess we paid him 20 bucks to say that.

Paul Turner: My rate just went up too.

Lee Stephenson: Paul, it is a pleasure. I appreciate you sharing a little bit of your story, your passion for your home. And it is our privilege to be able to chat and just excited to be working together and expand the kingdom. So, thank you for all that you're doing. And thanks to all our listeners. Thanks for tuning in. And this has been the Unfiltered podcast where we're having real conversations about church planting. Till next time, keep it real.