What if sales didn’t have to feel pushy, manipulative, or uncomfortable? In this episode of Her Faith at Work, Jan sits down with business relationship strategist Lindsay Fletcher to unpack why sales is actually an act of service—and how Christian women entrepreneurs can build meaningful business relationships rooted in trust, psychology, and stewardship.

If you’ve ever struggled with networking, selling your offers, or knowing whether your marketing efforts are actually working, this conversation will shift your perspective and give you practical tools you can apply immediately—without compromising your faith or your integrity.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:

1. Why sales is not manipulation—but service
2. How understanding buyer psychology can completely change the way you sell
3. The three things Lindsay wishes she knew before starting multiple businesses
4. Why having a clear, God-led vision is essential for sustainable business growth
5. How to identify who your real buyer is (and why talking to the wrong person kills conversions)
6. What to do when a client says, “I need to talk to my husband / partner first”
7. The four main buying styles and how to sell ethically to each one
8. Why ROI is a stewardship issue, not just a numbers game
9. How to evaluate whether your marketing is actually producing fruit—or just noise

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. Sales Is Serving—Period.

If you have a solution to someone’s problem and you don’t tell them about it, you’re not being humble—you’re withholding help. Sales done right is generosity, not pressure.

2. Vision Is Your GPS

Without a clear, prayed-through vision, you’ll chase every shiny object and wonder why nothing sticks. Write it down. Revisit it. Ask God often, “Is this still aligned?”

3. You Might Be Talking to the Wrong Buyer

Sometimes the person who loves your offer isn’t the one making the decision. Knowing who actually signs the check changes everything about your messaging and sales conversations.

4. ROI Is About Stewardship

Your time, money, marketing, and energy are all resources God has entrusted to you. Tracking what’s working—and what’s not—isn’t unspiritual. It’s wise.

LINKS:

1. How to Grow Your Small Business – Lindsay Fletcher’s podcast (highly recommended if you sell high-ticket offers or lead through relationships)
2. Lindsay's episode on Buyer Styles is here.

THIS EPISODE IS FOR YOU IF...

1. You hate selling but love serving
2. Networking feels awkward or draining
3. You’re unsure whether your marketing is actually working
4. You want to grow your business without striving or compromising your faith
5. You’re ready to approach sales with confidence, clarity, and integrity

Friend, you don’t need to become someone else to grow your business. You just need the right perspective, the right strategy, and the courage to serve boldly with what God’s already given you.

Sales doesn’t have to feel slimy.

Marketing doesn’t have to feel chaotic.

And business doesn’t have to be separated from faith.

You can do this—with wisdom, with confidence, and with God at the center. 💛

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Transcript

Oh, got to love technology. Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast. You may be wondering why I'm chuckling because I hit record and then it didn't say, this is recording. And I'm like, is it recording? Is it not recording? I don't know. And then it was like this delayed, this is recording. Anyway, got to love technology. Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Absolutely. You guys get to have such a special insight into a conversation that I'm going to have today and you're going to be so jealous that I get to have the conversation and you don't because the person that I'm introducing you to is absolutely amazing. We have had, we finally had to hit record because we were talking about all the good stuff and none of it was being captured. So anyway, I am so excited to introduce you guys to Lindsay Fletcher. You heard a little bit about her in the intro. And so Lindsay, thank you for being here. Tell everybody about you.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. You're right, all the good stuff was not on the recording. I don't know, anyway. We'll circle back, it's fine. I'm Lindsay Fletcher. I call myself a relationship strategist for business women. I help people develop really great business relationships and I do that through teaching networking, sales, lead generation, follow up, those types of things. So thank you so much for having me on your show.

Yeah, absolutely. I think as I hope I don't keep referring back to the conversation we were having pre recording but it as we were talking about building relationships and and you teaching people how to conversation that how to have conversations man It's just it's sad to say that having a conversation with another human being without it being through a device is a lost art But it really is a lost art

It sort of is, yes, it really is. I see it in my teenagers the most, right? But we've all kind of retreated back behind our phones and back behind our computers. And so when we actually do get into conversation with other people about our business or the services or products that we could help them solve a problem with, we freeze because we don't know what to say. Right. And we don't know how to have that conversation. We don't know what questions we need answered. We don't know how we should position ourselves within that conversation.

Yeah, that I mean it's hard. It's hard for me. I'm I would consider myself an introvert. I don't know if you can say yourself Oh, okay. Really? I actually read. Yeah. Okay, that actually is a little bit shocking to me because You said something earlier in our talk that I think so few people in the world would identify with that you actually love sales Thank you.

I do, I love sales. I love it, I love it so much. But here's what I love about it. I love this psychology and the science of it. Okay. I am actually, and a lot of people in my world would probably be very shocked to hear that I am an introvert. Walking into a room full of strangers is not something that I enjoy. It's not something that I seek out, but I have learned how to navigate those types of situations by, I've learned how to small talk. I've learned how to ask great questions and get people talking. And then I ask more questions. And then I know how to lead you to the water. I can't make you drink. Right. But I love the science and the psychology of sales the most.

Yes. Okay. So that, I think if people looked at it from that perspective, more people might fall into the same category of loving sales, you know, because they look at it because conversations are hard and they're talking, you know, I'm using air quotes if you're not watching this, talking people into doing something that they don't necessarily want to do. But if, if you're looking at it from a science-y and psychology perspective, I think, I think people might change their positioning because you're changing your mental, you know, it's your mental way that you're connecting with the subject of sales versus the emotional way that you're connecting with the subject of sales, which is hard. Yes.

Yes, and I would also say, you know, not only the psychology and the science behind it, but I truly believe that sales is serving. So let me walk you through the way my brain works here. If I come to you, Jan, and you tell me you have a problem, okay, let's say, I don't know, you need your haircut, okay? Okay. Let's just, I'm gonna go with it. I'm making it up on the fly here, but we'll go with it. Okay, go with it. You say, Lindsay, oh my gosh, I need a haircut so bad. And I'm your friend, and I know someone that cuts hair, but I abstain from telling you that I know someone that cuts hair. It's the same thing in sales. If we as business owners have the solution to someone's problem, and we are not telling them about it, we're being the mean girl.

I love that. I love that. Somebody out there just had an aha moment, I think. I hope so. Yeah. That's so good. Right? I'm, I want to get, not that that was not meaty, but I do want to get into what I'm going to consider the meat of this episode because something that I, something that I read when we first started talking really sparked my curiosity. When you said that one of the things you like to discuss is the three things that you wish you knew.

Oh my goodness.

Girl, so I want you to dig into those because when I read what those were I'm like, oh, yeah Mm-hmm. Oh Yes

Okay. So let me, let me walk you back a couple of decades in my life here. Yes. So I was telling you, Jan, earlier that I, my backgrounds in audiology, I worked in the clinic for lots of years, then moved over into hearing technology and sales. So my background is in clinical work and sales. However, back when my teenagers, I have four kids and I have two that are teenagers back when my teenagers were toddlers, I was working part time clinically. And then I was home part time and I am not someone that, I love working. Like I'm really good at working. It sounds ridiculous, but anyway, I love working. I'm good at it. And I was looking for kind of a side hustle or something that I could kind of do in the nooks and crannies of being home with my boys while they were napping. You know, I love learning. I like, I'm just a, I'm, I'm a kind of a forever student. So I'm constantly getting myself into things that like, I'm like, whoa, I don't need to make a business out of this. Okay. So back when they were little, yeah, back when they were little, I, I started from the time they were like toddlers and my oldest is 16 now. So like back when they were toddlers, I've probably started and stopped slash failed. I don't know if you want to call it failure. Cause I learned a lot from all of it, but I've started and stopped about five or six businesses. A couple, I joined a couple MLMs because I love the products and I knew that they could help other people. I tried a photography business. Um, and over the course of time stopped those businesses because I couldn't figure out a few things. And now that my husband and I own a local successful service business, we've built a seven figure business. Um, I now know the three things that was missing back when I started all those side hustles and businesses that I was trying to grow. Okay. So the first thing that I would say is you have to have a vision of where you want the business to be in the future. Okay. So like, so when we're talking like vision, you know, the scripture always comes up, like, you know, where there is no vision and the people perish. Well, if you translate that into business, kind of a business thought process, it's more like where you have no vision, you're on, you're, you're disconnected, you're unproductive, you're right. Like you don't really have, you don't really have anywhere to go. It's like getting in your car and driving aimlessly and not knowing where your destination is. Right. No GPS. Right. No GPS. Your vision is your GPS. So I really didn't know. And, and also my, you know, like I said, my background's in corporate America and there's kind of that unwritten rule that you leave faith at the door. Like you can be a Christian out there, but inside of these, you know, these four walls and you can't see my hands I'm moving them around. Um, but inside these walls of this business, your faith isn't necessarily welcome here. Right. And so as an entrepreneurial spirited person, I didn't really know to pray about that. I didn't really know to say, Hey God, what do you think about this?

What do you think I should, like where do you want this to go? Do you even want me doing this? And if so, what does that look like five years from now or a year from now? Right. So I would say pray about the vision of where you want things to go, because if you don't have a plan or if you don't have a destination, you can't map it back to where you are now. Right. And then write it down. And you know, obviously like, and, um, however you say the book of Habakkuk or Habakkuk or whatever, however you say that, I always say it wrong. And I know that it's not the right way. Anyway, you know, it's right. Write it down, plain so that people can see it and it there's something about, you know, taking it and running with it. It's so that you can, you can look back at it and go, okay, I'm staying on this vision. I'm staying on this. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Does this thing, does this new project, does this new client, does this new shiny object over here align with where I want to be in five years? Right. Because there's so many shiny things. So many, so many, all the things, all the shiny things. So there's, so that would be the first thing. The second thing is connecting with leads and connecting with customers and being able to have a conversation with them. So I mentioned that I was, um, I had a little photography business. I was actually pretty good at the photography part of it. I really was terrible at the business part. Mostly because I was following all of these photographers that were well known. I have no idea if they were actually making a living at what they were doing, but they had massive followings. They had, it looked like they were making lots of money. And I was like, I love the creativity of photography. I was actually pretty good at it. I loved the editing, I loved all of the things and the creative space of that part. I just didn't understand the business of it, right? And so I look back and I'm like, to my two favorite things to shoot were high school seniors and families. And what I didn't realize is I thought that the senior girls were the customers. The senior girls were not the customers. The mamas were the customers. Absolutely, yes. The moms were the ones writing the text for it, right? And so I didn't understand that I needed to connect with the moms. I needed to have the photography for the girls to look at and go, yeah, I want my pictures taken by her. But I didn't know that I needed to market to the moms who were going to be paying the check. I got it, yep. You know what I mean? And so then having the conversation with the moms about what it is they want their daughter's photography session to look like. Like, what are they envisioning? What are their dreams for them? You know, like really getting them in their feels about it. And so I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, if I could go back and do that again, which I'm not going to do, I would do things so, so differently. Yeah.

Yeah, that's so good. I feel like, so two things. I think that understanding the vision piece, I feel like especially like the time, this probably isn't going to drop until 2026. So you're probably listening to this already after the beginning of the year. But at the time of recording end of December, I think all the business owners are in vision mode. They are figuring out what their plan is going to look like. And I think some of us write it down.

Yeah.

I, because we know that we should write it down, but here's the part that I feel like people miss is that going back to it, right? That's why you write it down. You said it, you write it down so you can go back to it. And then I think it's getting with the Lord and saying, is this still, am I still on track? Is this still the vision that you have for me? Just because you write it down doesn't mean that it has to be a year vision or a three year vision or a five year vision. Maybe it's a quarter vision, you know, and when's the time that we pivot? And so I, but that's, if you don't write it down, how the heck are you going to know if you're on, if you're on track and you've got to, you've got to do that. So important. And then I, I so identify, and we've already talked a little bit about the communication piece, but knowing who you're communicating with, because if you're not communicating with the right person, hello, hello, hello. You're missing it. You're missing it. Your funnel is incorrect. It's why I think, sorry, total tangent here, guys. We're going to talk about email segmentation for a second, because that's why email segmentation for a business owner is so stinking important because if you are sending an email that has a, a super specific niche to your complete email list, you'll wonder why your, your open rate keeps going down or your unsubscribe rate keeps going up because you're not talking to the right people about the right things. So it is so massively important in business to know who you're talking to and why you're talking to them. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm, I'm curious if you have ever had a client where it's, it's the female and this is gonna sound very sexist and I'm sorry, but it's the female who is the client, but in order to make a big financial decision, she feels like she needs to also get her husband on board. Every day, all day.

Every day, all day.

every day all day. OK, advice.

that really quick? Well, first of all, don't be offended by it. I mean, that would be the first thing is that if I'm making a large, if I'm making a large purchase, my husband and I don't do that without consulting each other, right? Yeah, it's just an accountability thing in our marriage, you know. So number one, don't be offended by it. Yeah. Number two, I either ask to meet with the other person who's going to help make the decision so that I can have a conversation and I can guide that or I ask what information they're going to need. So I have a, I'm going to direct you guys to a podcast episode that I've done and I think it's episode 42. Don't get me, I will give this to Jan to make sure. Um, it's on buying styles. So one thing to know about buying, buying and selling psychology is that, that most people fit into one bucket of four. Now we can, we can have, there's four kind of main buying styles and how we decide to purchase. And when I say purchase, I don't just mean exchanging of dollars. I mean buying into faith, buying, this is how cults become a thing. Like it's like it, it's real stuff. Like, um, you know, how we determine to buy into a bully for type of thinking or purchase with our money is very, very similar. And so for example, I am what you call an achiever. I am a fast paced, get it done. I don't need to go to the details. I need you to show me that I'm going to get the gold star at the end. Like that's the kind of buyer I am. I want the outcome and I want everyone to know I made a great decision. Okay. My husband is what I would call an analyzer. He's slow, methodical. He's data-driven. He will search the depths of the internet, like the depths. Okay. Like, and we're not even talking big decisions. I'm talking like hunting jackets. Okay. Like, okay. Like we compare and contrast. He is as a buyer, he is concerned with the outcome, but he is concerned with being with, with ruling out all the other options and he's, he wants security in his decision, not in a boastful, I'm right kind of way, but in an, I've eliminated all these other options as the best option for me. And I feel really good in my decision. Okay. And then there are sympathizers who are really concerned about the people around them. They're also slow and methodical and risk averse. And then you've got your relators who are outgoing, fast paced. They, they're the people that will buy from you and they don't even need what you've got, but because they like you, they will just, they sign the check. Like, I don't know, people don't sign checks anymore, but you know what I mean? Like they'll swipe the card. Like, yeah, you know, like, so there are four different types of buyers. And by me asking the woman, well, what kind of information is your husband going to need? She's going to tell me what type of buyer he likely is. And then I can arm her with data with how this is going to impact their team or the people around them. Or, um, you know, if he's a relater, I'm going to say, Hey, let's meet for coffee. And I'm going to like show up and put my relater hat on, you know, and I'm going to charm the pants off of him.

Right. And I'm going to make him, I'm going to help build trust with him. Um, you know, if he's outcomes driven, then I'm going to show him the outcomes that I can provide for his wife.

Oh my gosh, so good!

Right. So as I, as I ask questions and I get that information from the woman that's trying to make this decision and needs to consult either her husband or her boss or, you know, whatever, whoever it is, I'm gaining information and figuring out, okay, what type of buyer are they? What information are they actually going to need to them to purchase? Oh my gosh. So good. And that's where the fun sales stuff is in the psychology. I'm telling you, I'm going to make all of you love sales. Oh, that's so funny.

So funny. So all of you coaches who are looking at a new or maybe rebooted or you're staying the course offer in 2026 that is considered a high ticket. You need to go listen to this episode of Lindsay's podcast and it's linked in the show notes. Her podcast is How to Grow Your Small Business, which is super easy to remember. Great title. We've already talked about that. I'm jealous of her title. Y'all need to go listen to that because you're going to need this for selling your stuff this year. Okay. And then I think I want to wrap up because you said something in your podcast guest form about return on investment of your time and your money and your marketing. Yes. And I think, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think the majority of business owners do not count return on investment or ROI because they're not looking at the data. And so how do you know if something is working, if you're not looking at the things? Right. And if you're not going back and reviewing, whether you're a data nerd like me or not, you got to go back and review after you do something so that you know if it's worth it or not. Right. So talk to me a little bit about ROI.

So ROI to me is a stewardship issue when it comes to like my Christian belief system, right? So if I go back to the parable of the talents and if I am to multiply what God is giving me, that means I need to multiply my time, my income, my reach, my resources. Like I am to multiply as a business owner. I am to multiply everything I touch or at least attempt, right? Not in a striving way, but attempt to multiply everything he's given me. My team, like I need to multiply anyone that's underneath us. We need to multiply their skills, right? So when we're looking at ROI, it's a stewardship heart issue for me or to me, I guess. It's more of a, how can I steward all of these things that God has put in our sphere or in our business? How can we multiply these things and what does that look like? So when we talk about marketing, if God is calling you to be on social media and that is a place that he wants you marketing your business, okay, is your audience 40 to 35 to 55 years old? Are they 20 to 30 years old? Like where is your demographic living, right? So for us in our local service-based business, the majority of our people are on Facebook because of their homeowners, they have families, like that's where they live in the digital marketing space. So we're not on TikTok actually. We have a TikTok account I posted four times and then I was like, what am I doing? I think we had 26 followers, like it's hilarious to me. Yes, it was peer pressure. It was absolutely peer pressure, but it was the world saying you have to be here, you have to be there, you have to be doing these things. And when it really came down to it, I mean I posted four videos and I didn't really stick around long enough to see what would even happen there, but I knew my people didn't live there, right? Like I knew my people were not in the TikTok space necessarily looking for our service. They were on Facebook asking their neighborhood groups, hey, who do you use for this?

Oh, heck yes.

And so when you're looking at your ROI, especially in marketing, where are your leads actually coming from? And then of those leads, how many did you close sales on? And where did those, that smaller number of sales, because you're gonna get a higher number of leads and then it's gonna funnel down, right? That's visual representation. By the time they're ready to purchase, it's going to be a smaller number that you actually convert to a sale than it is the people that actually contact you, right? Or see your stuff. So when you look at your sales conversion number, where did those people come from? Because that's what we need to do more of. Now you may have gotten leads from Instagram and you may have gotten leads from TikTok and you may have gotten leads from this thing over here, but when it comes down to your sales, those dollars that hit your bank account, where did those people come from? Was that a networking group? Was it an ad in a local something or other that's going on, like some sort of publication or maybe a radio station that's still really hopping in your area? It really depends on where did those sales come from? Where did those people come from? And how did they find you there? Yeah.

So, I'm curious, this just data nerd stuff, how do you keep track of all your different things that you keep track of?

So in our service based business, we use tags, we just tag people like if they came from Facebook, we tag them Facebook if we tag in your CRM. We just use tags that way. Because ours is more of a they call the office like it's not it's not like through online funnels types. And for my coaching business, my sales consulting business. I also use tags, but I also have the automations that tell me where they came from right like did they did they get this Facebook ad and then they got to this sales funnel and then they entered there. So it's it's really keeping track. And if you don't know start asking, Hey, how did you find us?

So good.

I mean, that's all it takes is, hey, how did you find us? Who found you on Facebook? Or, oh, I found you on TikTok? Or, oh, my friend so-and-so. And then that's an opportunity to go back to the friend so-and-so and say, thank you so much for sending me your neighbor. We so appreciate you. And they love you even more.

Absolutely. And they're going to tell more friends. And that's the way to follow up. Yep. That's so good. So, so good. So, is there anything else that you feel a burning in your, you know, deep in your gut that you need to tell people before we close out this episode? Because it has already been so rich.

Yes, you are in sales.

Surprise!

Surprise. You are in sales. Whether you are a mom of a toddler, you're selling broccoli. If you are a preacher on stage, you're selling Jesus. If you are a nasty human being at the grocery store, you're selling a bad attitude. We're all in sales. We're all in sales.

So good. So good. So what I'm going to translate that into being you better learn to love it.

And when you learn the psychology and the science behind it, it's just so fascinating. So fascinating. Oh, good.

So good. Well, thank you for this conversation. It's been so rich. Thank you so much for having me help people how they can find you

Oh goodness, so before we hit record and it delayed and you know, all the things, I was telling Jan that I'm not really on social media anymore. I do have a, it's a Facebook community called She Builds. You can find me inside there. I do have a Facebook page, it's not super active. I think I posted on Instagram maybe, I don't know, six a year, six months, a year ago. I don't really remember when I posted my last thing on Instagram. You can email me at hello at LindsayFletcher.co. You can find me at my website, LindsayFletcher.co and then inside my community. I'm not really anywhere else.

Oh, that's great. I, you don't have to apologize to non social media girl. Yeah, girl at all. In fact, I, this will be a, um, this will for sure be a 2026 episode. So y'all stay tuned because I'm going to have Lindsay come back and some other of my friends who are also not super marketing on social media. And we're going to have a conversation about how you can still grow business without using social media for marketing. Yeah. Okay. So that's a, that's a little sneak peek. There you go. 26 is coming. So anyway, Lindsay, thank you so much for your time today. This has been amazing. I'm so excited for people to connect with you on your podcast. So everybody is going to, all of her links are going to be in the show notes. And I, I know people are like, Oh, good gravy, Jan. How do we have to go to the show notes? Well, I mean, you kind of do, but you can also go to my website, jan touch free.com slash podcast. And you can see all the different episodes there. And Lindsay's beautiful face face will pop up and you can find her that way as well. So you guys, um, thank you for being here again today for an episode of her faith at work. And Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge.

Thank you, thank you.