If you’re facing the challenge of helping your parents move or wondering how to open those tough conversations about the future, this episode is full of guidance, support, and smart strategies to help you—and your family—thrive at every stage.

Welcome to another episode of Aging in Full Bloom! In this episode, I sit down with Marty Stevens-Heebner, a bestselling author, nationally recognized later life expert, and CEO of Clear Home Solutions, to tackle one of life’s trickiest transitions: moving your parents.

Drawing from her own experience as the “designated adult” in her family, Marty opens up about helping her aging father, the emotional hurdles so many of us face, and why even the most organized families can find this process incredibly challenging. She brings heartfelt wisdom and practical tips—covering everything from “right-sizing” your life and handling sentimental clutter, to navigating family disagreements and recognizing when clutter might actually be hoarding.

Together, we break down actionable ways to organize, declutter, and have those essential conversations with loved ones about planning for the next chapter. You’ll hear expert advice on making these big transitions more manageable, while preserving relationships and your own peace of mind.

Moments

00:00 Designated Adult: Managing Later Life

05:13 "Right-Sizing Your Life"

06:51 Unlocking Emotional Support for Clients

10:35 Rethinking Decluttering Methods

15:48 "Accountability Partner for Productivity"

19:31 Hoarding Scale Explained

22:03 Building Trust with a Hoarder

24:56 "Clutter Hazards Uncovered"

27:51 Discussing Future Care Preferences

30:21 Discussing Vulnerability and Future Care

35:22 "Managing Sandwich Generation Responsibilities"

37:21 Moving and Downsizing Services Guide

Age Wise Alliance

National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers

Here are my top three takeaways:

• Start conversations early & often: Don’t save “the talk” for a crisis moment. Building trust means having a series of honest, respectful conversations with your parents about their wishes—acknowledging their autonomy and learning what’s truly important to them.
• Downsize in do-able steps: Don’t let clutter (or “your stuff”) take charge. Break down the process—tackle one drawer or closet at a time, schedule short decluttering sessions, and keep it manageable. Celebrate the small wins and remember that progress, not perfection, is the goal.
• Ask for (and accept) help: Whether it’s from siblings, professionals, or specialized moving managers, you don’t have to go through this alone. Enlist support so you have the emotional bandwidth to care and be present for your loved ones.

Email me, Lisa Stockdale, anytime at aginginfullbloom@gmail.com

Aging in Full Bloom with Lisa Stockdale is sponsored by HomeCaire. We believe every patient should get the personalized care they need, in the way they want it. Every caregiver should feel supported, valued, and motivated. We see each person as their own entity, with unique needs, desires, and skills. Our goal is to best support our family as they reach new milestones.

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Copyright 2025 Lisa Stockdale

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Thanks for listening to Aging in Full Bloom with Lisa Stockdale, sponsored by HomeCaire of Ohio. We added an "i" to care because we care about the individual. That includes the individual caregiver and the individual client. From each caregiver's caseload to every client's care plan, we understand that individual preferences and priorities matter. People matter; we haven't lost sight of that here at HomeCaire of Ohio. If you or someone you know needs personal care at home, call 419-458-3000 to learn.

Welcome to Aging in Full Bloom with Lisa Stockdale. Today our guest is Marty Stevens Hebner. Did I get your name right, Marty?

You sure did.

Okay, perfect. Marty is a best selling author and a nationally recognized Later Life Expert. I love this Later Life expert. That's the first time I've heard it phrased that way. Very interesting. She is the CEO of Clear Home Solutions, where her accredited team manages moves, downsizing and establishing state liquidation for older adults and their families. And she founded Agewise alliance, an innovative online platform that connects families and leading professionals who specialize in aging challenges. Welcome, Marty.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Lisa. It's a pleasure.

Of course. So let's start with a little bit about you because I know our guests always like to know who in the world is on this podcast today. Tell me a little bit about yourself and like where you calling in from, what you back background. Tell me everything. Tell me it all, give it everything.

Well, I live in Los Angeles, in Sherman Oaks now and I have for oh, years and years and years. I grew up in Buffalo. Buffalo, New York. Very proud of grown up there. They build us rugged there, don't they? They? Oh yeah, absolutely. It's a beautiful place to live and grow up. It's really one. It's great people, just wonderful.

And so I actually came out to LA to go to grad school. I got my bachelor's in the Finger Lakes region, which is beautiful. And I went to Cornell and then I got my master's at UCLA and I started a Clear Home Solutions about a little over 12 years ago. I've been an entre, I've been an entrepreneur for, since the early aughts as they say. And what inspired me to start Clear Home Solutions was my own experience with my, with my 90 year old father departed the world. Mom died when she was young, she was only 58. Dad never remarried. She was the love of his life.

But going back and forth to Buffalo, I was the DA in the family, which means the designated adult. You know, there's always the responsible one. And I just loved what I was learning about later life. And from a business perspective, I just realized how huge the market was and how it would just keep growing and what a need there was. Yeah, so especially if we're dealing with the stuff of life, whether it's moving it because we love project managing our moves, especially for older adults and clearing things out after they passed away, we, we're hoarding specialists. We love good hoard and also doing home inventories. I mean when you have Battling beneficiaries. You have to document everything that's in the house and in Southern California.

I tell everybody who lives in Southern California that you have to have a home inventory. You don't need clear home solutions for it, but you just got to get out your camera, document everything because, you know, between, you know, fires and earthquakes and flooding. Oh, my. We just get it all here. So you got to have a doc, you know, document what you've got so you don't have to battle with the insurance company.

Yeah, for sure. You're already giving us great tips. I want to go back a moment you taught. You spoke of your experience with your dad, and it was an eye opener. Was it difficult?

Oh, yeah, it is. You know, and my dad. So a few years before he died, I happened to read there's an article in the New York Times that I think the headline was, literally, you have to talk to your parents about the will. And I was very nervous talking to him about it. And I just approached. I waited till I was home visiting him. We were out on a walk. It was nice and calm.

And I just said, dad, there's something I really need to talk to you about. And let me just preface this by saying I don't care who gets what. I just want to know that your estate plan, your will, that is just ironclad. And he almost seemed relieved to talk about it.

Nice.

And he said, don't worry, you, girl. I'm one of three daughters. You girls. It's split between the three of you. Even though I told them, I don't care what I get, I just want to know I'm not going to be. I just said, I'm going to be grieving your passing so much. I don't want to have to do any kind of battle beyond that. And I think on a separate visit, he actually showed me.

He called me over to his desk, open the file drawer, and said, okay, there's the will, there's the trust. Here are the bank accounts, and this drawer is a safe deposit box key. So I was very touched by that because it meant that he trusted me so much that he knew I wouldn't go rifling around before we had to.

Right.

But it was so good to know where things were. Plus, he cleared out the attics and. And cleared out so much. And I would say we had it better than, say, at least 95% or even 98% of people out there. And yet it was so hard because of all the emotions involved.

Yep.

It's so hard.

Yeah. And, and you make a good point that the reason, one of the reasons, like we're calling this right, sizing your life. And you're going to tell us how to do that. You're going to give us great tips. I can tell that already. But one of the reasons this is important is because when you do experience that loss, you're going to need room to experience it and to grieve and to stay human to it. And you don't want to spend those days or weeks or months fussing and fighting over material junk. They really don't matter.

But as you say. Ben, would you. What did you say? Battling beneficiaries. Yeah, that happens. People fight and argue and, you know, disagree about who gets what and what goes where and when it all happens. And it can become a burden that nobody needs. Nobody needs extra stuff when you're trying to deal with the loss of a parent. Agree.

I completely agree. The grief is so deep and it. It's very strange what people will end. People will end up fighting over. It'll be the torn up, scribbled in burnt grandmother's cookbook. Yeah. It'll be dad's baby shoes that were bronzed way back when. So they're, you know, nobody can wear them.

It's just those sentimental items because they're expressing their grief in these almost nonsensical but very specific ways.

Sure.

And the trick is to, you know, when we're working with clients, I have this amazing team of people, I have such great colleagues, and, you know, they will focus on that pencil or those baby shoes and say, okay, got it. We need to keep those. You know, this is so hard. I know. For you to be dealing with. How are you feeling right now? Do you need a little break? What's coming up for you so that you almost using that particular item as a key to unlock the deeper issues so they can talk about the grief or when we're working with older adults to get them to talk about how frightened they are by this move. I literally had one client say to me once, I feel like I'm moving to the place I'm going to die. And the most important thing to do if, if someone says that to you is to say, I, I get, I get it.

I get why you might feel that way. And let's think about what it will be like there for you. Let's talk about that. What are you. You can talk about what they're dreading. You can also say, you know, something to think about, though. You know, mom or dad is that you got a whole third act to live out.

Yeah.

And there they'll do the cooking, they do the cleaning. If you so much as sneeze, they're looking after you. And you'll be around your contemporaries. So they remember the 70s, the way you did. You can have these conversations. You know, it's not like talking to a teenager who's clueless.

Yeah.

You know, it's screaming or. Right. You don't have screaming babies or teenagers running around. I. There are lots of activities. So I get what you're feeling. I get it. I can only imagine.

Because obviously I'm not there in that place right now, but I can only imagine. I just think there's a lot you may end up liking about it. So let's get you through this process. The important thing is not the worst thing you can say to somebody who's feeling that way is to say, oh, no, it's going to be great. Because you're negating what they're feeling. And it's a big feeling because they're keenly aware they can. You know, they can kind of the end of their life is a lot closer than the beginning of it.

Yeah. And the truth is, you don't know. You don't know if it's going to be great. They know you're lying. You might not think of it as lying, but. But that's actually kind of what it is. Okay, let's start with this idea of. Right.

Sizing your life. You write here is your stuff more in charge of your home than you are. Does that happen?

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. You know, it's interesting. I. I was interviewed for an article in El Decor about the art of Swedish death cleaning. And that was a big book a few years ago, and it's still very popular.

We just don't need so much stuff now. One of the big problems is finding the time to really get in there and make your life work for you.

Yeah.

And know where everything is. Because it's very easy, for example, to over buy simply because you don't remember where you put that thing.

Yeah. We did that recently. We really didn't need another juicer. We already had two, but a new one arrived. Okay.

And that happens.

Yeah. Yeah.

Years ago, we worked with the client. Oh. The amount of Preparation H we found throughout her home, it was crazy. She kept buying because she couldn't buy.

Yeah.

So that's the thing. And here's the key to. Right. Sizing is people think they have to do it all at once. I am not a big fan of Marie Kondo's method, I will tell you that. And apparently I've heard that since writing her first book, she has since had children and has become keenly aware that, oh, that method I had doesn't work for a whole lot of people. So we have to grab moments where we can and so that it doesn't feel onerous. So what you want to do is really sit down, make a list.

You know, make a list of the places, the rooms, or the areas that drive you crazy. Like the garage. It's usually the garage, the kitchen, the main bedrooms, closet, things like this. Closets are a big deal. And write down a list. And then what I want you to do is, is look at each room or area like a garage and say, okay, what parts are there to it? Well, there's those back shelves. There's the shelves on the left and the shelves on the right. The laundry area.

Maybe I should even look in my car. Okay, so list those separate areas for each place. In my living room I'm looking at. I know my clutter places are my coffee table. There's a little plate. There's a place where I put down my. My bag and some other things there. And I know those are clutter magnets.

You know, I have to deal with it too.

We all do, right?

Yeah. And it's just being realistic. And so just list those different areas for each room. And what you want to do is once you break it down like that into different tasks, then it becomes more manageable.

Yeah.

So what I recommend, especially if you're just starting and you've been daunting, you've been planning on this, and you've been daunted by it quite a bit, is just on a Saturday or Sunday, schedule one hour and pick one place to concentrate. Pick the junk drawer in the kitchen. Pick a section of a rod in a closet. Like, even mark the area with a piece of tape on the wrong. This is all that. This. Just this area right here. One drawer and a dresser.

Yeah. Make it.

When you're right, it's manageable, you can see. And just stick with that one area. Let's say you're working on an area in the garage and you find a mug like, oh, this has to go to the kitchen. Don't take it up to the kitchen because you'll get distracted. Put it near the door. So when you're done with that hour or that specific area, you know, then you can take things where to other rooms. But otherwise you go to the Kitchen. And you go, oh, so the mug goes here.

Well, I should wash it. So I wash it.

Yeah.

You know what, Bears? There's, I don't know, like a. A wallet. Like a, A wallet I was using or a handbag. It's like, oh, that needs to go up to my closet. So you go up to your closet. It's like, oh, look, there's dirty laundry.

Yeah.

Or there's clean laundry. I need to put it away. So. So. And within that space of that hour, you really don't see any progress. Whereas if you focus on that one, like that one drawer, that drawer gets organized and like, and. And then your hour is done. Or that drawers.

And I say schedule a. Of an amount of time or a specific area to get done. And then when you're either done with that hour or you're done with that drawer, you're done for that session. And you can see, like, you could open that drawer and see, look what I did. You see the progress. And then you schedule the next hour. So you're going to do it.

You make a list of an area or a place.

Trouble areas. Exactly.

And then you compartmentalize. You divide the area up into different sort of categories. Then you schedule time. Just an hour to focus on that area. Has to be intentional, right?

Yeah.

Stay in the area. Don't go getting distracted because good lord, you were describing me trying to clean the house on Saturday. All of a sudden I'm reorganizing my closet. You know, there's nothing about the house is getting cleaned. So, yeah, it's simple and doable.

It really. It really is. And especially when you go from, you know, breaking, like, rooms, three key areas in each room or in each room, and then in those areas, picking the one to work on. And slow but steady progress. Also, you want to train your mind to think of this as an enjoyable time, not just the reward at the end where you get to look in that drawer and say, oh, look how organized that is. Or that part of your closet. Also play music that makes you move while you're doing it. Yeah, play music.

Have chocolate or something. Either while you're doing it or as a reward afterwards, a little something to drink. Whatever. Another great thing is to have, you know, let a friend know you're doing this and say, I'm going to report to you. I am scheduled for 2 to 3pm I'm going to report to you after 3pm on Saturday that I've done it. Or maybe even text you a photo.

Nice. Hold yourself accountable.

Yeah, exactly. Finding an accountability partner. I guarantee you there's someone else who wants to do it, who feels the need to do it as well. So you can do that too. Slowly but steadily, it all gets done. And then usually by the time you're to the end of your list, it. It's probably a good time to go back to the beginning of your list and just check things and neaten things up. But the point is you've done the hardest work ahead of time and now it's just, you know, a little cleanup, like a little dusting after you've sweat, you know, a little spot with a broom.

When you've cleared out the whole garage, you're not having to dig into corners and things like that.

Yeah, yeah.

Make it much easier.

And, and following this plan and using these practical techniques will help you get ready to move, Help you actually move.

Absolutely.

You know what?

You know, even if you're not thinking about moving, start now because enjoy it. Yeah, you want to, you want to organize it so you can enjoy it. More light comes into the room. It's so much easier to find things. It's so much more efficient. That whole thing where everything has a place is brilliant. I. There's a great book by David Preston Allen called Getting Things Done the Art of Stress Free Productivity.

And he has what I call the two minute rule. And basically he says if there's something that you can get done and say two to three minutes, just do it. Don't let it pile up. Empty the dishwasher, put those things away. Put, you know, put those file those papers, things like that, just get them done. Because otherwise what, certainly what was happening with me, by the way, I was, I was a Clutterbuck till I started. Just before I started doing this business, I had, I improved. Positive.

You can learn to be organized. Learning techniques. It's what it's all about.

So you, you're. I would like, you're in, you're. You're a clutter bug. Rehab, right?

Covering Clutterbug. Yes, that's me.

Okay.

That's me. And, and, and what? Because what was happening with me is those two minute tasks would just pile up. So Suddenly I had 15 or 22 minute tasks, but they were all over the place. And so I don't want to get this done. So I did. Just get it done. Just do it. And it feels so good to get that done.

And it's that much more efficient. And when you know where something is, you know where to go find it. And you know where to go to go put it back. So you're not buying three. Another juicer?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And. And it, I mean, if you're like me, and I don't know if most people are. I'm sure some people are. When I have a task that is not completed, but I know I need to, it sits on my shoulder, it whispers in my ear, like, you need to make that call. You need to put that away. You need to do this, you need.

And a lot of times they are simple things. Like, I can think of a call that I needed to make this week. I didn't want to make it. I kept putting it off. Putting it off. I made it and I was like, oh, geez, why did I put that off? Like, why did I let it bother me like that? So if you're like me and you have that little task sitting on your shoulder, this two minute rule might just change your life.

It really can. It did. It really did for me. I mean, I. I feel it in my chest. Like it's a weight on my chest.

Okay. Yeah.

And it's such a. Look at that. And also there's just that great feeling of accomplishment.

Yeah, yeah. Now you. I am interested. You mentioned the word hoarding. And how do we. What's the difference between being a clutter bug and being a hoarder?

Oh, there's a big difference. You can actually go online. You can look up the clutter hoarding scale. It was put together by the Institute for Challenging Disorganization, and it's a one to five scale because it's not just about the amount of stuff, it's about how it impacts the entire living environment. Because when you're getting up to a 4 and a 5, the electricity isn't necessarily working. There are rooms that you can't even get into and use. There's usually, especially with a five, vermin infestation. The ones you see on tv.

Yikes. Yeah, those are a five and sometimes a five plus. So if it, you know, hoarding is starting to happen, when it starts really decreasing the quality of your life, is hoarding gradual?

I mean, or does it just, like, happen? I know it doesn't happen overnight, but is it, is it slow, a slow progression for most people, or is it sparked by something in their life and then they just start doing it? Like, how does that work?

Well, it's interesting because for the longest time, people just thought they don't recognize hoarding as a. A mental health issue. But now, finally, with the latest psychiatric manual, the DSM 5, I believe, is what it Is there is hoarding disorder.

Okay?

It's its own. It's its very own disorder. Because I will tell you, there are people. There are people who really cannot perceive the amount of clutter. We actually call it clutter blindness in the trade. They cannot perceive it because look at how our DNA is so very, very, very similar. Our genes are like 99% the same across all of us. But look how different each of us looks.

Now imagine our brains. They must be very different. They're wired differently for each person. And so there are people with hoarding disorder. They have. Usually have poor executive function. They don't know how to really organize their lives. Now, that can.

That can be just how their brains are built, so they do not perceive the clutter. I'll give you a perfect example. There was a. A daughter who hired us to work with her mother, and that was a really bad hoarding situation. And we got to transform. We transformed the life of the whole family. The daughter wrote me a wonderful email afterward. Well, there was.

Initially, we were allowed to work in the carport area, and the daughter had told me that there were also two cars parked on the street that were. Belonged to her mother that were basically hoarding situations within them. The tires were flat when I saw them. And yet, you know, being careful with the mother because we. One of the biggest things is building trust with someone who hoards because people have been so judgmental of them, they're embarrassed by it frequently. And so as I was approaching the cars, I wanted to address them, and I said, oh, I noticed there's some things in this. The cars here. I said, oh, no, there's nothing in there.

And I. And I. There was a lot in there. It was. And I said, well, I see a few magazines and newspapers in here. Would you want us to maybe look and look in here and clear some things out? Okay, you know, that's all right. You can do that. They were packed full of magazines and newspapers and things like this.

And one thing people don't know, and I didn't for a long time, was that newspapers, as they decompose over time, and we're talking hoarding situations where they're real high for years, not in. They can spontaneously combust.

What?

Yeah, I didn't know that either. It takes a lot of time, and there have to be piled up for a long time, but, yeah, they can. Especially in a hoarding situation.

Yeah.

Now, so that's when someone actually has the mental disorder called hoarding disorder. However, especially if you're watching the hoarding Shows more often than not, something happened. There was an instigating event. A death.

Yeah.

A divorce.

That's what I would assume.

Yeah. They've lost. They lost their job, they had a physical injury and things just. They got depressed or they literally couldn't move around and things just started to pile up and pile up. And by the time they would be coming out of that depression, they just. They didn't have the energy to deal with it. They didn't know where to start because everything had piled up so much, so frequently, especially when you're watching shows, because, you know, the shows, the reality shows, they'd love a good story, and that means an instigating event. But so something like that can happen.

And I think with the woman that I was just discussing, I think probably they had some hoarding tendencies, she and her husband, when. But apparently when he passed away is when things really started to fall apart. Because literally, if you. I remember after we've been working for a while, she let us come into the home. And I remember walking through it with one of my project managers and the electricity was jury rigged. The hoarder's nest was right there, and that's where they eat, sleep, and do everything. The plumbing didn't work. I remember asking him, I said, where do you think she goes to the bathroom? He said, oh, my God.

I thought of that. So that's when it's really severe. So the clutter hoarding scale measure, it certainly measures on clutter, but it also looks at the condition of the home. A friend of mine, Matt Paxton, was on the show hoarders for 12 years. He now has a new show on the Discovery Channel called Filthy Fortunes. But he remembered, he once told me a story of going into a home, and he was inspecting the home to see what kind of shape it was in, and he realized that all the floor joists were disconnected from the actual home. And he was trying to figure out, what am I walking on? And he realized the floor was balancing on top of the hoard in the basement.

Oh, my.

Yeah. So I hope that answers your question.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think we're all so curious about the hoarding situation and. Yeah. And maybe it. I really haven't watched the shows, but to me, I would just think, like, for it to get that bad, there had to be some pivoting moment or some. Okay, so let's talk about your book, how to Move youe Parents and still be on speaking terms afterwards.

That's the key right there.

And your podcast, how to Move your Mom. So, listeners, if you want another good podcast, add to your list how to move your mom would be a good one. And the key is to still be on speaking terms. How do you do it? What's. What's the magic formula?

You don't tell them what to do.

Huh? Ain't that the gospel? Well, that would never fly with my parents anyway. But if I did try to tell them what to do.

Oh, yeah, because you have to realize, first of all, they're adults. Yeah. And. And I put this in the book how to move your parents and still be on speaking terms. I said, you have to realize you're telling them that they have to move for their own safety. And they're looking at you, and they remember when they used to change your diapers.

Yeah.

How could you possibly know better?

Right.

You have to respect that. And they talk, we talk about having the conversation. It's not just one conversation. It's a series of them.

Right.

I mentioned that discussion I had with my dad, and it ended up being a series of discussions just to find out. Even right before he died. I remember hospice came in. Hospice is such a gift.

It is.

Somebody from hospice came in and this had never come up. They asked, excuse World War II that they said, do you want a military funeral? He says, yeah, I would like that. And I had never even thought of that. And I found that out two days before he passed away.

Yeah.

And I wish I'd known that sooner, but have a series of conversations, and a great way to approach it is just saying, you know, can we. You know, I. I want to know what you want your later years to be like, because life is life and there's an end and how do you want it? How do you want things to happen when, if and when maybe you. You either can't make your own decisions or what do you do if you break a hip? You know, do you want to live in a community? Let's say you're in a situation where you need 247 care and we can't provide that. You know, what do you want that to look like? But. But above all, just start with, what do you want your later years to be like? Especially when, like, with, you know, refer to your own family's events when, you know, uncle so and so, remember when, you know, he. He's. His dementia started getting kind of a bad.

Or, you know, when, when, after, you know, grandpa died and grandma was left alone and, you know, she ended up in the house all by herself and was really kind of miserable. But then when she moved to that senior living community, she was really happy. So talk to me about what you want things to be like, because I want to make sure I respect your wishes. This is kind of your one shot mom and dad, you know, you tell me what you want, otherwise I'm going to make it up all on my own.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and, and look, I've had clients who, and friends who said, you know, all I get is, you know, my dad says he's going to go out feet first and that's it. And in terms of like estate planning, my mom, or, or paying for her care, my mom just says, well, you're my bank. Or, you know, I, I've saved up sleeping pills, which is the cruelest thing you say your kids. But one way to approach those kinds of situations where they just won't talk about it, say, look, I. Anything could happen. You know, I'm on the freeway every single day and I pass accidents all the time, right? Something could happen. So I'm thinking about myself and especially if you have kids, that's a great risk. Like, I'm thinking about my own kids and what's going to happen if something like that happens.

So I'm putting together my own estate plan and so I want to kind of talk to you about it because, you know, it could happen tomorrow. So I want you to know what I'm thinking.

Yeah.

So what if I end up in a coma? What if, you know, I have a bad brain injury, I'm still, I can still function, but I can't really take care of myself. So I want to talk to you about that and let you know what I'm thinking because sometimes just by opening up and being vulnerable yourself and asking them for advice, they feel more comfortable opening up. Now they can give you advice and there are openings there to say, okay, is that how you, Is that what you want? Is that what you're thinking too? Yeah, just have these conversations and make it a bunch of conversations, you know, so this is what I'm thinking now. So I'm going to talk to the attorney and so I'm going to come back to you and make this a two way thing. And sometimes that can really, you can make a lot of headway that way.

Yeah, it's really, it's. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it's really simple, right? I mean, you said don't tell them what to do and I'm going to add this. You've insinuated it, you've implied it. Don't Assume things. Don't assume, you know, what you. What they want and just talk to them, stay human to it, just like the adults that they are and have a two way conversation.

Yeah. And you know, another thing you can do, especially if, especially if the doctors are really recommending senior living, some sort of community, you can ask them, well, what was a place like that like for your parents? And they were, they were horrible. I can tell you.

They were.

They're not like that now. I mean, a lot of them are like cruises on land or, you know, resorts.

Yeah.

Can we just go look at a few? You know, or. I went to, I actually went to visit a couple. So here's what I want, you know, here's, here's what I thought because I believe me, I have been to senior living communities where I'm thinking, I want to move in now. It's so beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it goes the other way too. I mean, you've all, I'm sure you've also been to places where you were like, yeah, this never happened. So there is something to touring and exploring your options. And you can make fun of that, Make a fun day out of that as well. Like you were saying, play the music, you know, treat yourself with some chocolates. Well, go to lunch at your favorite restaurant. The day you do that. I mean, make fun and also just enjoy getting out, I guess, to do it.

Breathe the air. Right. There's something to be said for that.

Yeah. And just do it now. Don't wait.

Yeah.

Because when it's a gradual situation, for one thing, people can change their minds.

Yeah.

So just because maybe two years ago, mom or dad was saying, absolutely not, they might be more open to it, or maybe burial plants, maybe they wanted to be cremated before, now they want to be buried or vice versa.

Yeah.

Things like that just check in. People change over time and people like to feel restrained and talked to also, especially with people who are in there, say past the age of 85. They were so impacted in a devastating way by two of the worst periods in American history, the Depression, the Great Depression in World War II. And they were the deprivation generation. They were the greatest generation. And they were so deprived.

Yeah.

Because of the Great Depression and because of the rationing during World War II. So even if they weren't born necessarily or old enough to be aware, during the Great Depression In World War II, their parents were so traumatized, there was no avoiding it.

Yeah.

And so they would, you know, they couldn't help but pass along their trauma kind of imprinted on their children. So that's why they don't like to throw anything out. Everything has value. And also they were not allowed to be a burden.

Yeah, Generational trauma, we call it. Right. Yeah. And, and I guess the other thing too is like for me and my own mother, I find that she finds purpose in doing, doing things, accomplishing things. And when she can't do everything that she always could do before, then, you know, there's a cost to, to that emotionally. And so she's learning how to work. And I. That's exactly what you say.

Like, we just have to be patient with each other and have ongoing conversations and just love each other through it. Just. Yes, right. What are your closing thoughts for audience? Marty? What, what do you want to leave them with? You? You've given us a lot of stuff to think about, a lot of stuff to chew on, but what would you like to leave us with?

Make sure you have enough bandwidth to care for one another. And that means asking for help if you're the da, the responsible child who's involved. Because the sandwich generation, there's even something called the club sandwich generation because people are living for so long that you often have great grandparents around. And when you're, you have your own kids and you have your parents and you have a full time job, you need to ask for help. If your siblings have to step in, you know, my brother won't do it. Well, he's going to have to. He needs to grow up and, and, and contribute in some way. Also hire people in, in the book how to move your parents, there's lists of different kinds of professionals who can help you out on hwisealliance.com too.

One of the key parts of it that was so important to me to build was a glossary of professions. There are 80 plus professions listed on there and defined so you can understand what they do and realize how much help is out there. Make sure you do that because especially if you're a spousal caregiver. I don't have them off the top of my head, but the statistics are terrifying in terms of how frequently a caregiver becomes sick and sometimes more ill than the one they're caring for. And when it comes to special caregiving, the caregiving spouse too frequently passes away before the one they're giving the care to.

It's true. We hear it, we hear stories of it all the time now, Marty, if someone wanted to get a hold of you or to get a hold of these resources that you speak of, what's the best way to do that?

Well, the best way to do it is go online to age wise alliance.com to find out about all the services and understand them. And then there's my company. If you're in Southern California, we, we manage moves, do estate liquidation, home inventories. If it's anything to do with stuff, you can contact go to clear home solutions.com and then also if you live elsewhere in the country, in Canada, also England, Australia, New Zealand, and you want someone like a company like Clear Home Solutions to help you move or downsize or clear out, you can go to nasam.org that's the National association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers N A S and you can just plug in a zip code and you'll find somebody, probably several somebodies and several companies in the area who can help you.

And you are the president of that association, aren't you? I am.

I'm very honored to be the president. We have our conference coming up soon.

Well, I think they're very lucky to have you. And I cannot thank you enough for being on today and sharing your experiences and your knowledge and your tips and your wisdom.

Lisa, thank you. This is a wonderful opportunity for me. It's an honor to speak with you. Thank you very, very much.

Absolutely, listeners, till next time. May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be forever at your back.