Have you ever argued with your partner about parenting? Most parents have and it's one of the big topics that clients usually want to talk or vent about. 

This is especially an issue when you're following a different approach to the norm, and maybe you've even questioned whether it's worth implementing it if your partner is not 100% on board.

In this episode I talk with fellow Aware Parenting Instructor, Joss Goulden about what you can do to create a more connected co-parenting relationship with your partner whilst staying true to your values.

___________________________________________________________

About Joss Goulden

Joss is a Level 2 Certified Aware Parenting Instructor, who has a degree in Psychology and completed post-graduate courses in Human Communication Science and Counselling.

She is the host of The Aware Parenting Stories Podcast and The Aware Parenting and Natural Learning Podcast and has created the Aware Partnering in Parenthood Online Course.

Website : https://awareparenting.com.au/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/awareparentingwithjoss/

___________________________________________________________

About Helena Mooney

I am a Certified Parenting Coach for mums who want to do "gentle parenting" but become frustrated and worried when it doesn't seem to work. I'm here to help you feel more confident as a mum, deeply connected as a family, and to all have more fun!

**DOWNLOAD YOUR FREE BOOKLET:** Shout Less, Connect More with 5 Simple Games

Book: 1:1 Mentoring Session

Follow on Instagram

Follow on Facebook

Hello and

welcome

to parenting with play this week. I'm so thrilled to have the lovely

Joss Golden from WA in

Australia. And Joss is a fellow Aware Parenting

instructor. She's also a level 2 parenting instructor Aware Parenting which is

fantastic, and has a background in psychology and

counseling. And today's topic is one I'm sure

many of you can relate to is how to

manage parenting with your partner. And Joss actually has a

fabulous course all about this, but I really wanted to talk to her today

because if you're like me, there are times

when you wanna do something different to what the father of your

children want to do, what my husband wants to do. And so how do

we best manage that? And so I'm really excited to have

a conversation with Jos all about this. So if you're struggling

with how to be on the same page, or you wanna do something differently, or

just conflict arise arises within your relationship

about parenting. Jos is your woman. So Jos, welcome. It's so good to have

you here. Oh, thanks so much, Helena. It's a pleasure to talk to you about

this. It comes up so often with clients. Pretty much every session,

somebody's having some kind of challenge navigating

parenting with another parent. It's it's not

easy. It's not and especially because as

moms, we're the ones who generally have done the research,

who sort of really immersed ourselves into this world

and wanting to figure out a better way of doing

things. And then often our partners are like, what?

Certainly with my husband's like, oh, okay. So we're co sleeping now. Okay. So we're

doing this now. And, you know, that can just there can be a bit of

a disconnect between those of us who are really heavily researching and

reading and learning, and our partner who may not who's just sort

of happy sometimes to go along with what we wanna do, but

just not as involved. And so, yeah,

like you, I have clients who just go, well, is there any point me even

doing this approach? Because if my partner's not doing it, does it matter? So

talk me through how how do we help up how do we help both of

us get I was gonna say how do we help our partner get on the

same page as us, but that's probably setting us up for conflict in the first

place, isn't it? So how would you recommend just starting

that sort of to help us get get to

be on the same page wherever that same page is?

Yeah. I mean, I would like to say as well that I I also have

clients who are fathers who are really passionate about Aware Parenting, who are struggling

with the mothers of their children not being on board, so it can work both

ways but generally it is this way around and it becomes

very frustrating for people to be doing lots of work, to be

reading all all the books, to be listening to the podcasts and

doing the courses and really diving deep into this beautiful approach

and finding that their partner is really reluctant to, to do any of that

research or doesn't appreciate, the work that

they're doing or is just on a very different page and

is parenting from their own, how they were parented and how they were

raised without giving that much thought to it. So it is often really

challenging and I think, I mean, there are lots of things that people can

do to to get onto the same page as their partners or or to

to work together as a team in parenting in a way that is

functional and healthy and conscious and aware. But

I think really the first thing is to for people to get really

clear about why they want to do parenting this way

and why it matters because then you can,

you can decide that you're going to adopt lots of strategies in order

to be able to support the family dynamics to work really well but it's really

useful to have this like guiding light that you keep coming back to

that says, no actually this is really important to me and this is actually really

non negotiable because this is what I really value about it. And it

also then really helps you to be able to explain that to your partner

or to your parents or to whoever else you're dealing with,

why you're doing what you're doing, why it matters and why you're so passionate

about it, even to then come back to that, yeah, in tricky times.

So I think that can be a really helpful place to start and the other

thing I think that's always the most important in all of this

is for moms to be getting lots of listening themselves because

even if your partner is quite on board it's inevitable

that, having children is going to alter

and influence the dynamic of your relationship and change the way

you relate to your partner. Becoming a mother changes who we

are as mothers and so it's inevitably

going to have some effect on our relationships too. And so

even if you're in a wonderful relationship with a partner who reads all the books

and does all the courses with you, there are still going to be lots of

times when we need listening and support to to be

able to express the big feelings that we have about partnering,

parenting together with somebody else or about our partner when we have

tricky moments or just the fact that, you know, parenting is really stressful and

exhausting in the early days and so that's a

perfect storm for creating more conflict between us and our partners when we're exhausted

and overwhelmed and juggling all the different things that we're doing. So it's

so important for everybody in the relationship but particularly

the one who's driving this way of being, To be getting lots and lots

of listening and support and opportunity to offload the

stresses and the challenges, to dive into some of the

younger parts of us that get touched and that can be often so painful

and often in relationship with our partner,

and the parts that just get really fed up with with them and the way

that they behave towards the children sometimes, or the way that they don't help, or

the fact that, you know we're doing it harder than they are, or you

know all of the, all of those parts, and the parts

that have to kind of re identify who we are

as women when we become mothers. Many of us, you know, had

careers or we had all kinds of different interests and hobbies that we

were involved in and becoming a mother changes all that too. So

I'd say those are my 2 biggest tips which don't really

involve the partner of our children at all in order for us to be

able to work towards having,

relationships be as connected and conscious and as smooth

and easy as possible. Yeah. Those are

brilliant. I mean, the listening time is so

powerful. And, when I'm working

with clients and just saying because they go, oh, well, I can talk to my

husband about things. And I'm going, it's so much more beneficial

if you talk to somebody outside of your relationship. Because not

only do you want to sort of perhaps just have a vent about your partner,

but also I found that when I was complaining about my kids to my

husband, it would wind him up as well. And so he would then get more

annoyed about the situation, whereas I just actually needed to vent to him, and

then perhaps for him to react calmly. But it's so beneficial to

talk to somebody outside of your relationship. So you can just offload everything there,

isn't it? Rather than because it doesn't take much, you know, you're

holding it together all day with your kids or, you know, however long you are

with your children, and then your partner comes in and prop

says something minor. And because you've been holding it in, because you're

being so patient and wonderful with your children, And then they

say the slightest thing and you can just easily just go off,

which, you know, obviously doesn't help the relationship. So, yeah,

that point about having that external listening is

so, so valuable, particularly

because we talk about it in relation to our children. They're like, you know, go

and vent about your children and, you know, work through what comes up for you

about your children, but it's so powerful to also do it about your partner

as well. Yeah. And I really like that you said that too

that often when we are if we're trying to do listening time with our partner,

it does often create conflict between you. It's it's

not it's much harder to offer unconditional

listening and empathy to your partner in that kind of way

or or for them to be able to do that for you and not to

be triggered and activated by things you might be saying about the children or

vice versa. And it's quite easy for those conversations

to, yeah, to feel not as

supportive as it as it would be to be sharing with somebody who's outside of

the family and it's really important that the person you're sharing with also understands that

we're parenting and understands the importance of this kind of approach too

because then they can say, you know, they can see that obviously

you you really love your partner. You're just having a whinge about them or, you

know, that you you you're most of the time your relationship's

great, it's just that when you're coming to share. So you can be really free

to just share from your heart about whatever it is that wants to be shared

in that moment without upsetting anybody, without creating

any kind of conflict or difficulty down the track. It's just a

safe place to to offload the stress and to receive that

kind of unconditional support, which then enables us to

come back and communicate with our partners and communicate with the children in a way

that is actually more likely to be the way that we wanna be communicating.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's such a

I just keep saying this, but it's not just aware of parenting. It's aware of

living. It's a way of being with everybody around

us, including our partners. That is,

Yeah. It's such an important part. So, yeah, I love I

love that. And, I remember because

it's very difficult also for our partners. If we have

I remember explaining this to some medical students, some obstetrician obstetricians in

training going, you know, before we have our baby, we're so in love with our

partner. And then when we have our baby, we fall in love with

them. And it can be quite hard to

hold space for 2 people that you love, particularly at that

intense time when you've just had a baby and every your whole world has

just changed. And it and it's hard

to navigate that without,

without excluding your partner sometimes. It can be, you know, being with our

baby can be so all consuming. And yes, we want help. And yes, of course,

we still, you know, love our partner, but it's

a I was quite struck by how different I

felt afterwards because I I knew I was gonna love my baby,

but I was just suddenly really consumed by my baby. And my baby

was number 1. Whereas before that, my husband was number 1. And so that

just that shift can be a really tricky time to to

then renegotiate the relationship in a way and and refind

your footing with your partner. Yeah.

Absolutely. And you throw into that sleep deprivation and

exhaustion and and all of the stress of of what you're going

through. And it is it is a really hard time and of course it impacts

the dynamics and often we feel

quite overwhelmed. Well, first of all, sometimes we feel very

overwhelmed by the the joy and the love and the tenderness and all of those

needs of ours that are now getting met by this baby that we are lovingly

tending to and holding and cuddling and all that kind of stuff, and so those

needs in terms of receiving that kind of love and affection from our partner change.

And then we also get the sense where we're physically kind of a bit touched

out sometimes where we just need a bit of space and and at the end

of the day and the baby's gone to sleep and then our partner wants a

cuddle and we're like, well, actually, I've had enough cuddles for one day. Thank you

very much. And so that changes that dynamic too. So

it's it's a lot to be to be working through

and like you say, their role in in the relationship is is

a difficult one initially because they have

all the the jobs and that they can support us with

around managing the home and managing everything that we're doing in the home.

But in terms of actually looking after the baby that is our,

us, often our sole focus especially if we're the ones who are breastfeeding

and that kind of thing. And so it can be quite hard for partners

to, kind of, know where they fit into this new picture.

And so I think, yeah, being aware of that can can be

helpful for the mothers and fathers in a

relationship to to understand the shifting dynamics between them and

how how the next chapter of your relationship is going to look

different to how it looked just before the baby was born.

Yes. Yeah. And that changed. Like, my husband was, I

don't think, fully realizing that we were gonna go down the

bed sharing, Aware Parenting, Attachment Parenting

route. You know, he married one person and then suddenly is

now sort of, you know, having another aspect of that person.

And it is it's a hard it can be a hard shift to go along

with. But I mean, obviously, they're caught up in the excitement and exhaustion of a

baby as well. And and sometimes they're quite happy to just go along.

But when you then come to the point of

conflict, and it could be in that it might not be in the

baby stage, but there can be conflict particularly around whether to do the

self soothing method or, or before I discovered

Aware Parenting, you know, the constant feeding and holding and jiggling method. And

that's why I think Aware Parenting is just so helpful for relationships

as well because you can be with your baby and then you don't have to,

you know, there's, there's a structure around how you help your baby

sleep better. But,

it's when you get to that conflict, that sort of crunch time going, no.

I I don't agree with that or,

sort of over time, the conflict might arise that

can that can ultimately lead to the breakdown in relationships. But how would you

recommend then navigating? Like, I mean, I like how you're

saying the why, but say you're you do come at it from

different angles and, you know, no, I want to do the

self soothing method. No, I want to do aware parenting method. You know, how would

you help couples navigate that?

Yeah. Well, I think that's a really, really challenging thing and it depends on

how the dynamic was in your before you had a baby too

and, you know, some, some relationships are very sort of 5050

even and some relationships have one person relationship who's much more

dominant than the other in terms of all the decision making. And so

that will obviously impact how how that process goes,

but I think it's really helpful to come back to your why around Aware Parenting

so that you can decide what what is and what isn't a

negotiable thing for you, and what what you are a

100% committed to, and and not willing to compromise on,

and what you are willing to compromise on. And obviously all you can

do in that relationship is to do how you're going to do the parenting. You

can't make, you know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't

make anybody else to parent the way you want them to,

but you can be really clearly communicating why this is

important to you, and you can be respectful conversations and and

keep coming back and visiting it and exploring. And, of course, with the Aware Parenting

perspective, we can often understand that it's

likely if if our partner is wanting to do things in

a very sort of authoritarian way, for example, or wanting to do cry

it out, that kind of approach to baby

sleep training, then we can understand that

there's almost certainly their own trauma underneath that that is driving their

behavior. So it might be possible for us to be deeply

compassionate about why they are choosing to do it

that way and making different choices to us. But in

the end, each person has to decide

what they are willing to compromise on in that

relationship and to keep trying their best to explain why you want to do

it. But I know that in the end if, I mean, yeah,

my partner and I have been together for many years, but if he had not

been, and it was all driven by me, the Aware Parenting and the Attachment

Parenting too but if he had not been willing to parent in

that way or at least allow me to parent in that

way, that that would have been that I don't see how he could have come

back from that. So sometimes sometimes it is the end of a

relationship and and that, of course, is really complicated and incredibly

painful. But it just depends on what what

is your driving priority when

it comes to raising your children and what you're willing to compromise on and what

you're not. Yeah. Because it

it it's so important. I mean, obviously we know this

and everybody listening to this is how we raise our children and how we are

with them and it and,

it's very hard to then give give up that. So, you know, where I

came to with my husband was, I do Aware

Parenting and he's a great dad who doesn't necessarily follow Aware

Parenting, but he's a great loving father.

But I just, you know but it gives me the doesn't give me the space.

It is not averse to me doing,

you know, the listening in arms and and crying in arms and and all of

that approach. But it doesn't mean that you have to be on exactly the same

page. But I think it's allowing that whilst

staying true to the principles. You know, because if my husband was

abusive, then of course we wouldn't be that. But

I think I sometimes come across, often come across well, if I'm

not if my husband's or my partner's not gonna do Aware Parenting, is there

any point me doing Aware Parenting? And I really like how you're saying, you know,

as long as we can follow that approach,

then then that that well, then that's often enough. And then we

don't have to have the other person exactly doing exactly the steps. But

and but having that that family unit where

that's okay to to do that. Don't know if I'm saying this quite right, but

you'd, clearly. But it it's okay

for your partner not to do exactly what you want them to do or what

you're doing. As long as you are following this approach and you are still within

a, you know, a loving relationship, you can still make Aware Parenting work

without the other person having to do exactly the

steps precisely. Yeah, absolutely. And it's such a

powerful approach that of course we can always,

be making a significant, a massive difference to our children's

lives by practicing this even if it's only one of us who's doing that in

the family. And when we understand all the different strategies that we

can use in Aware Parenting, we can bring that to our children's

relationship with their other part, their other parent as well and

so, you know, if our children, if our husband, for example, has just

got really angry with the children then we can go and listen to their feelings

about that or, you know, if our husband is really great

at attachment play but isn't very good at listening to feelings

then we can divide up the the way that we're gonna offer

these strategies in a way that plays to everybody's strength. Or if we

have times when we don't have capacity and our partner is willing in those moments

to take over and support but most of the time we're doing the listening,

then that of course is enough, it's more than enough. And I think, you know,

it's really helpful to remember that any time you're offering your

children attachment play, any time that you are listening to their feelings,

any time you are rewinding with them after conflict or after challenges,

these are all deeply significant things that we're doing. So there

is no idea of this sort of perfect family who are

lovingly offering Aware Parenting all the time and that's what we're all aiming

for. We're just navigating our way through the messiness of

life doing the best we can and listening to feelings when we

can, and playing when we can, and rewinding when

we can't. And, you know, that's that's very

significant in terms of what our children are experiencing in their childhood.

So it's not that it has to be perfect or else there's no point in

doing it. It's just that life is always messy and

difficult and

heartbreak and we can navigate all of that as

long as we're getting the support and listening that we need so that we can

then hold space for our children to to share their

feelings and to integrate and to heal from any experiences that they

have that are unpleasant as a result of any conflict between us and our

partner. I think that's such such an empower

an important point because again, many people can think, oh,

well, there's this perfect family where both parents,

you know, do attachment play and listen to all feelings. And,

you know, when our own family falls short, we go, oh gosh. Well

then that means I'm not doing it properly. And so, you know, your your

point about do what we can do because we're not perfect.

So it's not there is no perfect aware

parenting family. We all stuff up. We all have times of stress

and, you know, needing to repair with our children.

And as as long as we can do that when we can,

that is that's what's going to help. We don't have to because

it can get to a real point of conflict going, well, just listen

to their crying if you listen, you know, and that that sort of,

perhaps inability by our partner to want to listen or

to be able to listen or to do the things that we think

that they should be doing, that can become a real source of conflict.

Whereas for me, there was a lot of just letting

that go, knowing what a great dad he

is, but I'm the one who listens to to feelings. And

but it took me a while to get there because I was so cause I

knew how powerful it was. So I was like, right, can you do this? Also

because I'd had enough, you know, I wanted support in there. And so for me,

when I got to a point of, okay, well, this is just what I do.

I listen to upset feelings. And then that really decreased the

tension between me and my husband because I was like, well, that's okay

because he doesn't have to because I am, and

that is that is gonna be enough. Yeah. Yeah.

That really takes a lot of the pressure off, doesn't it? And I think what

the other thing that's really lovely about Aware Parenting is it teaches us that there's

always a legitimate reason for behavior for our children

but there's also always a legitimate reason for behavior from our partners

too. And so when we can bring that perspective and for

ourselves as well of course and to be looking at that lovely list of 3

that we often bring to our children, you know, their needs for information,

their unmet needs and their, accumulated feelings,

and we can be thinking of that same framework for ourselves

and thinking of that same framework for our partners. So, you know, perhaps perhaps

we can have

I really love about it and this is why I think it works and this

is how I understand it. Would you like to know more? Does that

make sense to you? Do you have any questions? So that there

there needs for understanding and now there is so much information out there and that

I've had, you know, that we've got, like, short, I've got a short

course, you know, there's lots of information now that's presented in the way

that even the most reluctant partner would be willing to listen to a

20 minute podcast, for example. But, so to ensure that

they are getting the information that they need and that they're willing to receive,

can be super helpful. And then looking at needs and having conversations together

around needs. You know, what are your unmet needs? They're never gonna be able to

show up and be the father we want them to be if they've got

endless unmet needs and never taking time for themselves and and

either at work or at home with the children, but never actually

having a break and tending to themselves. So, yeah, again, having

conversations about that. What are your main unmet needs at the moment? Mine

are this. How can we find ways to be creative in our family to support

us both, to have some time, to support you to get time away from

the family, tending to yourself and doing what you love and the same for me

as well. And really prioritizing the importance of that because

we then have so much more capacity and so much more likelihood

to be able to handle the the demands of parenting.

And then the third thing is around listening to feelings and our own

feelings and and our partners and often our partners, I mean, as

men, most of our partners grew up in a culture where feelings

were not tolerated from boys, they had this

imprint around, you know, that it's, you know, it's not

it's not okay for boys to cry. And so most of them grew up in

this culture without ever receiving the listening

that they need. And most of us as mothers get the

chance to come together with other mothers and to share,

but most fathers are entirely on their own from other fathers and aren't

connecting with other fathers and aren't getting spaces to share and be

vulnerable and to express how they feel and have a lifetime

of unheard tears inside them. So it's inevitable

that there are going to be times when they have big feelings and as we

know from Aware Parenting, when they have big feelings, they're either going to go into

that hyper arousal response and become angry and aggressive

and, you know, agitated or they're gonna go into

dissociation and switch off and and zone out and go

into their control patterns. And so, you know, even just starting

to explain that, even just starting to encourage our partners

to to be getting some kind of doing something that

that supports their nervous system to be regulated, doing something

that supports them to be tending to themselves and the the sore parts in

them that come up. Even if it's just having the

opportunity to talk to us and we can be a bit of a listening partner

for them for things that come up, is really, really helpful because they

can't just come to parenting and do parenting and do Aware

Parenting unless these other aspects of the picture are

being addressed for them and that they're getting some kind of

support which is, yeah, as I said, often the first time that

they've ever received any listening, they've ever had the chance to cry.

I mean I know when my son was born that was one of the only

times I ever saw my husband cry And you know, it's

it's, we all know the power and the healing power of crying and it's

something that, you know, I do regularly to support myself in parenting

but you know that our husbands need the same. They need opportunities

to, to release and to heal their own stuff and to

even at least start to understand that when they're triggered by the

children, there's a reason for that and it's starting to understand

that picture that it's, you know, younger parts of you that are getting touched in

this experience. And even just understanding that

for a man can be a really powerful first step so

that he he's motivated to start

exploring some of that a bit more for himself. And now fortunately, there are

more like men's groups and courses for fathers

and people sharing in social media about about

this aspect. So it is increasingly, I think, gonna be the

case that men will be getting more of the support that they need as fathers.

But certainly in the early days of our parenting journey,

there there was no support for for fathers at all. So

it's it's really it can make a big

difference to start just being aware of those three aspects and

how we can support more of that for them so that they have more

capacity to to parent in the way that we want them to.

Yes. I I love all of that. And, you

know, we we work so hard on having understanding for our children

and understanding, you know, why they're behaving the way they are, what they're

needing. And we can sometimes be a bit blind

to what our partner is similarly

needing and experiencing and and, you know, those

lifetime of un what did you say it? You know, unheard

tears. I can't remember the exact words you said, but, you know, just that sort

of powerful go, yeah, Men as a whole find this do find

this harder because they haven't had that capacity to to be

heard and listened to in that way. And certainly their fathers weren't at

all. So to

to have grace and understanding that as women, we we

do meet and we do talk. And I mean, I know some women still find

that hard, but as a whole, we are better at that. And and,

the men in our lives don't have that to that degree. Or if they do

catch up, they talk about I mean, it's great stuff for them, but, you

know, it's not necessarily feelings and what's going on, which is

fine. And I think also acknowledging that it is important

for our partners to to go out with their friends.

You know, and to begin with, we can go, would there be I need you

home with me, but actually allowing allowing

again, there's that word.

Being okay with our, with our partners meeting up with their

friends, because that's their support network, even though they're not necessarily talking about

their feelings, but them having that sol you know, maintaining their

solid friendships is so important too. Yes.

Yes. And and play. Sorry. Go on. Play. Yes. Go

on. Well, I was just gonna say it's not be playful if we're not getting

play in our own lives. And I remember a good friend of mine complaining about

her husband going out playing golf regularly. And I'm

going, one day you'll be really pleased that he's going out playing golf. But also

he needs that. You know, that's his space. Because, you know, one of the big

things I say to to women who work with me is, again, what do you

do that's lovely for you? And we, as women, can get so consumed by our

children, that, you know, we go, okay. Well, I don't know

what I what I enjoy doing. And that can be a

block for us being playful with our kids. But so

letting our men in our lives go and have fun so that they can

then come back, recharge, and then play. Go on. Say what you're gonna say about

playing. Yeah. Oh, well, that was it basically, just that it, you know, it is

such an important part of the healing and often for men, it's much easier to

release and heal through laughter and,

and play. So, yeah, bring it on, encourage that, and and

to have playful moments between you because again, often we get, we

get sort of so exhausted by the

the responsibility of parenting and the demands of parenting and the

serious business of raising our children. And so

bringing playful connection and fun and laughter to our relationship

between the 2 of us is also really therapeutic and important

and healing and vital as part of this process and again when we have this

Aware Parenting understanding, we see the power of play with our

children. The same is true for us and the same is true for our partners,

both individually and together. Yes.

I I mean, we need to have special time with our partners. We need to

because I know that whenever I've gone out, you know, you it's so easy to

get irritated by the day to day. Aspects of life.

And then we'd go out on a date night and I'd be like, oh, I

I can remember why I loved you. You know, I can remember, you know, you

can feel it's like whenever I have special time with my children, I can

feel my love for them more. And the same with our

partners. If we it's so important that we do nurture that

relationship and have fun together because otherwise it does just

become a list of who's doing what and have you put the bins out and,

you know, we need to make packed lunches and the day to day humdrum of

life. So to to really prioritise that special time,

whatever we wanna call it, you know, date night. Because then we

reconnect as as each other rather than just as mum and dad,

which can get really boring sometimes, you

know. So it's so important. And it's

again, like with special time, it's an easy thing to drop because

there's so much to do. There's so much, you know, there's always things to do.

So to to go out on date night can sometimes seem like, oh, God.

Oh, really? I'm tired. Can we just stay in and not bother? But actually it

is worth the effort because it's important to feel

that love. Because when we feel that love for a partner, then we we're much

more likely to be able to be patient and to go, oh, you

know, to be more forgiving and to be playful again. And

and it it benefits everybody. Yeah.

Absolutely. And then we can also, from that space of being connected

again to each other, we're more likely to be able to be compassionate towards

them and we're more likely to be able to have these really important conscious conversations

that we need to have again and again and again with our partners

as part of this parenting journey where we might be bringing up things that we're

concerned about about the children or we might be talking about, you know,

challenges that we've been having or or things that went you know,

times when things went a bit dodge, when somebody got angry

or it didn't go the way we wanted it to be or whatever and just,

it's very hard. It's impossible to have conscious and connected and

deliberate conversations from a place of disconnection. So we really need

to be prioritizing that time to come together and to

to feel connected and to feel close again. And like you

say, back in love again, in order to be able to be having these these

important conversations about things that we want or I

noticed that, you know, the other day this happens and you seem to

get really activated. What was going on for you? Is there can I

support you more with that? What would be helpful in future? Or it, you know,

might be that we want to be modeling to our

children, modeling to our partner how we want to be responding to our children and

so we might say, you know, this is how, this is how I do it

sometimes or, you know, I don't know if you noticed but the other day there

was lots of feelings there and I just moved in and was silly and brought

in some play and some choice for a moment and then that really supported them

to get in the car and for us to go and, you know, is that

how how is that something you think you might want to do or, you know,

all of these sorts of conversations where we're trying to support them

to to incorporate more of the strategies of Aware Parenting into their own

parenting, come from these this place

of of connection. And we can't we can't be saying yeah. We can't be

having these conversations at times of of big conflict and stress

between us. I was just gonna say the time

to to show and teach or in a better word

is not in the heat at the moment, which I

to bring up something that might feel a bit

uncomfortable, but at a time when you are feeling more

relaxedness and a bit of distance from a fraught

time, not doing it in the heat of the moment.

Yeah. How would you how would you navigate

if somebody said, well, I'm just not willing to do that. I'm just not

I'm just not gonna do that. I'm not gonna. As in I'm not gonna have

those conversations. Oh, I'm not No. As in you having that conversation and your

partner's going, I'm not gonna listen to crying. I don't wanna do

that. Well, that's, you

know, that's a challenging one, isn't it? And I think, yeah, that's a moment for

you to be getting lots and lots of listening for yourself about all of

that, what that brings up for you. Imagine there's disappointment and

frustration and resentment. There might be rage and and disempowerment.

There might be all kinds of really painful feelings to hear that from your

partner. So, yeah, I think that's a moment to be reaching out

for support and more support and more support until you can get really, really

clear and come back to a place of clarity

about what that means for you, what that means for your relationship, and what that

means for your children. And, yeah, those are the

moments when we need care and we need nurturing and we

need compassion ourselves because that's often that's very, very

painful to hear about if it's something that you really deeply care

about. So, yeah, getting lots of listening and then,

yeah, making making some having having more conversations and

more conversations and and reassuring yourself that it's okay.

It's okay if it's just you who's doing it. And what you want

that to mean for your relationship is that's an individual thing that

depends on, you know, all the other factors that are part of your relationship

too. But, yeah, that's a time just to get a lot of listening for us.

A lot of listening because it can you know, just like with parenting, it

can touch on younger parts of us that were hurt, that were told

no, that might have been dismissed or treated in a way that

we now well, that we now we didn't like at the

time, and we wouldn't tolerate now. And,

and I think it's recognizing that it's not always about what's

happening in the moment that we both come to that conversation

with unhealed hurts, and that can lead us to be more explosive

and more, hurt or more,

Yeah, it it's to understand that there's often

a deeper thing. So for us to go away and to get that listening time

and to go, okay, does this feel familiar? Yes. I remember when I

was spoken to in this way, or I felt this disempowerment

because it's often when we feel really powerless that then

that makes us be more aggressive and more like, well, you have to do this.

And if we can go back and and really start

to look at and heal those earlier parts of us, we can then

come to a conversation that's difficult in a in a more

empowered, genuine genuinely empowered way.

Because with our partner, it does it is more triggering. Like, it's it's

harder and more triggering to have a conversation with them than it is to just,

you know, have a friend because it means so much more and it can represent

so much more. So to really work on those earlier parts

of us can be so profoundly healing.

Yeah. Absolutely. And it often, you know, it's often reminds us

of, you know, the way that our fathers might have spoken to us

or or the way that some of our male teachers might have spoken to us.

And there are lots of layers in this, particularly for women

around the way that they were spoken to by men or

previous relationships that they've had with men where they might have been spoken, you know,

treated in a way that was really hurtful and and there's lots of

accumulated feelings around that too. So, yeah, the more that we're getting

places to be able to share all the different feelings that are coming up,

both in terms of the present moment stresses of being in relationship

with somebody else and those younger parts of us that are being touched

by the way our partner might be speaking to us or or to the children.

It's absolutely crucial. Yeah. It

is. It is. I just don't know how I would do it otherwise, to be

honest. I think it's, it's such an, it's such an invaluable part of my life.

And sometimes I do have to preface going, I love my husband. He's very,

very good dad. And I just need to to have this moment of

venting. And then I always feel so much better for having had that

because then I can go back to a situation a lot calmer

and more or even just more objective and going, just going,

well, this is just something that he's not able to do, and that's okay,

actually. Yeah. Because this is important to me, and I can do this

on my own or not on my own, but I I'm the, you know, I'm

happy. The example in my family is I'm the one who listens to upset

feelings and that's okay. Because

I fully recognize, you know, how my husband was brought up and feelings were

not an acceptable part of his childhood. So

it's it's interesting actually, I think, being with our partners because then we get to

understand their parents a lot more. You can see the

patterns so clearly. Clearly I have no patterns in

my, my life, but I can see them very clearly in his behaviour.

Yes, indeed. My little boy is now

coming in because this is morning time for me and it's getting ready for

school. Just one second, Jeff. Just Yep.

Sorry. Just on the wrap up in 5

minutes. That's tricky. Just getting everything

ready. I'll be out in a minute. It's 5

minutes. Oh, okay. 5 minutes.

Does that feel like we've covered my stuff now? Sorry.

Didn't Yeah. I mean, there are there are lots of, you know, ways that you

can bring more connection and and

strategies and prompt and, you know, conversation

starters and nonviolent communication. You know, bringing all of

those things in can really support more

harmonious interaction with your partner

to even if you can't come to exactly the same page in

parenting to at least be able to navigate the differences in a way

that has you know, is more respectful.

And, I mean, Alisa talks about that as such a central part of

Aware Parenting, having a peaceful conflict resolution and and respectful,

interactions and having meetings and

those things can come into and things like loving limits as well, we can be

offering loving limits to our partners. So really the whole of the Aware

Parenting framework can be applied to our partners too to support

more, yeah, more harmony, more connection, more ease

in in the co parenting relationship. But I think in

the end, really, it all comes down to us getting the support that we

need to be able to tend to those younger parts

of us that get touched in conflict with our partners and

to navigate the stresses in the moment that in ways that bring us

back to to clarity and to connection.

Yeah. I love that. And and whilst retaining,

true to what we really want, you know, that you'd mentioned in the very

beginning about what's your why. Why why have you come to Aware Parenting?

Why are you wanting to do this, and and

retaining connection with that whilst

navigating day to day life.

And I've do you, do you do NVC in your, in your program?

Do you wanna talk a little bit more of just very quickly about your course?

Yeah. And do you incorporate NVC in that and having difficult conversations?

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So my course is called Aware

Partnering in Parenthood and it's really just about how to bring the

whole framework of Aware Parenting to your relationship with the other parent of your

children. And this is it's suitable for, you know, if

you're married to the parent of your child or if you're separated

or if you're in a blended family or, you know, whatever the individual circumstances

that the course still applies. And,

I think, yeah, we I mean, that's a whole section which talks about how to

how to come onto the same page, and how to use these different techniques

and strategies to support your relationship. And I think what can also be

really helpful sometimes, and I do a lot of work with both parents in

sessions, it can be really helpful to

for your partner to hear it from somebody else rather than from

you and to have an opportunity to express their concerns and their

fears and their worries in a way that is, like, gonna be unconditionally

accepted and not be triggering. And so

that can also be a really helpful thing. But, yeah, the course dives into, you

know, coming lots of, you know, reflections. It's opportunities

to to do sections together with the co parent

or or to be done by yourselves separately or just to be done by

yourself to then be able to offer this to your partner.

And it talks about, yeah, the why why it's stressful and difficult to be

in a relationship and why aware parenting is important to you and what

you want for your relationship and how to resource

yourself at times of conflict and how to support your children at

times of conflict and how to learn to be offering

compassionate listening to your partner and, you know, how to how

to work together as a team. So it kind of dives into all of that.

And it's a, you know, lifetime access. Do it at your own

pace in whatever order works for you. And,

yeah, I think it's just a really a beautiful way of

bringing all that we know about Aware Parenting to to the other

really important relationships in our life, not just the one with our children.

Yes. Because then that enriches the one with our children. Because if we're in conflict

with with their dad, then that's that is that does

impact. And, obviously, I'd love to talk to you again about, about

co parenting with separated parents. That would be another

conversation that would be so helpful. So with your course, it's helpful, you

know, even if your partner's not willing to to do

the course, would it still be valuable for Yep. One

parent to to do it Yeah. Generally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You can do it by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I have a a

whole section there's a section of the course which is the entire aware everything I've

learned about Aware Parenting in 17 years in 5 minute video,

so you know you really couldn't you couldn't refuse to watch

that one could you? Even if you never want to read a book.

Yeah. So yeah. But, yeah, certainly it's it's

it's fine to be doing it by yourself or with your partner. It just

it would help you to then interact and communicate and

connect with your partner in a way that is more conducive to,

to have less rupture and to have more awareness and and more connection

and, yeah, and and to be supporting your children when there's

conflicts. Because, of course, that's the other thing. It like you said, if there's conflict

between the parents, that usually creates big feelings for our

children, which means that their behavior is likely to be more difficult and challenging. And

so how to how to sort of break that sort of

spiral and to to bring in more support for our

children, more support for us and more support for our partner at the same

time. Yeah. Love that. What a great place

to end. Thank you, Jos. That's been so, so great. And I

can just feel there's such richness in, in your program that, you know, if

you're, if you're wanting to, to in enhance your

relationship and improve your relationship with your partner because it's

it's beneficial obviously for you, for them and for your family unit as a

whole. Yeah. I highly recommend Josie's course. Josie, can you tell people where they

can find you? Sure. So, I have a website, aware

parenting.com.au, and I have a courses page on there,

which my parenting, partnering Aware Partnering and Parenthood

course is on. Don't why I called it something that's so difficult to say. But

anyway, and I also share on social media we're at,

Aware Parenting. No, I'd yes Aware Parenting with Joss. And I

have a podcast Aware Parenting I have 2 podcasts actually. Aware Parenting

Stories and the Aware Parenting Natural Learning podcast. So with Mary and Rose.

So, yeah, I can be found in lots of places. Lots of

places. Well, I highly recommend. I'll obviously post links in the show

notes and on my page. So, yeah. Thank you so much, Jos. It's been such

a lovely conversation and, there's such

richness to it and depth that, really encourage people to

to check out your work in your course because, it is so

needed. Because it's like the second thing that people talk

to me about is, like, obviously, the relationship with their pair with their children

and then partner work comes up. So, yeah, it's such a vital

part of parenting. So thank you, Jos. Well, thanks so much, Helen. It's

such a pleasure to speak with you again.