This episode dives into detail exploring a case study on herbal support following trauma. Learn about potential herbal and nutritional options for Eden:

Eden (they/them) has been engaged in grassroots organising very intensely for a long time. They are completely exhausted. They are sleeping 9-11 hours a night now but have been sleeping only a few hours a night for several months/years up until recently. They don’t wake up feeling refreshed. They need four coffees to get through the day. They don’t really have an appetite. They have been vegan for 12 years but don’t really have the energy or enthusiasm to cook any more. They don’t take any medications or supplements. They are feeling increasingly disillusioned and depressed with the horror of the world.

Links & resources from this episode

• Herbalism, PTSD and Traumatic Stress Course

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Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host, Nicole Rose from the

solidarity apothecary.

This is your place for all things plants and

liberation.

Let's get started.

Hello.

Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism

podcast.

I hope you had a listen to the first kind of

PTSD case study, which was about a guy called Tom.

I don't think I said in the introduction last time, but all of these case studies are kind

of based on, like, hypothetical people, you know, kind of bringing threads of different

people I've supported over the years.

So, yeah, they're not.

They're not kind of any one, like, real client, if that makes sense, as I want to

respect people's privacy, I hope.

Yeah, I hope you find this interesting.

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distress and poverty, you know, who's living on universal credit or disability benefit or,

you know, which are all, like, mechanisms of really keeping people in poverty.

Right.

So, like, I just.

Yeah, I know it's hard for a lot of people to kind of receive.

Like, I really struggle with that.

Like, an amazing person came and helped me in

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Okay, thanks for listening, and yeah, speak soon.

Bye.

Okay, so this sort of case study, hypothetical

person who's kind of based on different people I've seen over the years, it's called Eden.

They use they, them pronouns.

Okay, so Eden has been engaged in grassroots

organizing very intensely for a long time.

They are completely exhausted.

They're sleeping nine to 11 hours a night now, but they have been sleeping only a few hours a

night for several months, years up until recently.

They don't wake up feeling refreshed.

They need four coffees to get through the day.

They don't really have an appetite.

They have been vegan for twelve years, but

don't really have the energy or enthusiasm to cook anymore.

They don't take any medications or supplements.

They are feeling increasingly disillusioned and depressed with the horror of the world.

So, yeah, so kind of revisiting the framework that I talked about in the case study of Tom,

I'm trying to work through like systematically looking at kind of medication and allergies.

And does that rule out any particular plants? Sleep, nervous system state, digestion,

nutrition and inflammation.

Okay.

Some medications and allergies.

Straightforward.

They don't take.

They don't.

They're not on any prescribed medications and no kind of known tolerant intolerances or

allergies.

Sleep.

So, yeah, they are only.

They're sleeping nine to 11 hours a night,

which kind of.

Yeah, seems a lot, but yeah, this is kind of

something I talk about in the herbalism.

PTSD and traumatic stress course.

You know, can be really kind of, you know, relating to kind of depleted levels of

cortisol.

You know, they've potentially been in that,

like, fight flight response for such a long time without enough downtime or rest or.

Or digest kind of parasympathetic time, that they've gone from having extremely high levels

of cortisol through that kind of chronic stress to potentially quite low levels of

cortisol and this kind of adrenal insufficiency.

I wouldn't be able to just kind of pluck that out of the air.

But I'm just kind of saying that that's like a potential.

You know, their adrenals might be okay, but they might just be very nervously exhausted

temporarily.

But kind of, given their sort of health

history, like, having been at it for a long time, I would kind of imagine that they're.

Their system is kind of in that state.

And, yeah, they've talked about having this,

like, historical lack of sleep, which is quite critical because you think, oh, nine to 11

hours, that's fine, you're nice and healthy.

But actually, they've probably got a very kind

of severe historical sleep deficit, which is kind of taken its toll on their kind of, you

know, on their nervous system, on their brain chemistry, on levels of inflammation on their

gut bacteria.

Like, all the things are affected by lack of

sleep, which is why I put sleep the top of my list when I'm working with someone is, you

know, trying to support them to have a kind of nourishing sleep cycle.

But because they are getting nine to 11 hours a night and they don't need help falling

asleep, I'm not going to give them any particular, like, sedatives or anything to get

them to sleep, if that makes sense.

And we're going to address this kind of

feeling of not waking up refreshed when we're looking at our kind of nerve tonics.

Okay, so their nervous system state, they're obviously in this state of kind of nervous

exhaustion in terms of polyvagal theory.

They might potentially be in sort of like,

shutdown, which often correlates with kind of depression.

So, you know, they could be in, like, actual shutdown or they could be in kind of freeze

and they're different.

And we talk about that, the differences of

those in the course.

So I won't go into it now, but, you know,

freeze is a state where you're kind of frozen, but you have a high amount of kind of nervous

system activity where you're still kind of in fight or flight, but you're frozen, whereas a

kind of shutdown state means you're more in sort of parasympathetic dominance.

Yeah, like, you're kind of plain dead, if that makes sense, like an animal would.

So, yeah, I don't know what's going on for Eden, but either way, they're kind of in this

intense kind of exhausted state.

I've talked about their adrenals already, but

this kind of, like, hpa axis, which I talk about in the course a lot, the hypothalamic,

pituitary, adrenal axis is kind of our body's way of communicating, triggering different

stress hormones in the kind of response to danger and cues to our nervous system.

Like, if this kind of response in the body is so relentlessly activated, then it's going to

lead to kind of depletion long term.

Okay, so kind of herbal actions needed here.

We're going to be really thinking about nerve tonics.

So I'm going to be thinking about herbs that are going to sort of support them, recover

from this state of exhaustion and recover from this fatigue.

And, yeah, kind of help potentially repair, like, this kind of depleted system.

I might also be thinking about kind of stimulating nervines.

And in the course, I talk about how stimulating nerve irons are not stimulants.

It's not like, hey, I'm really depressed and shut down.

I'll just, like, bash a load of, like, matcha or something.

It's like, how can we work with herbs that are a bit more stimulating in terms of, like,

circulatory stimulants or cerebral stimulants, you know, getting blood flow to the brain that

are more like uplifting and strengthening and warming.

How can we work with them appropriately rather than putting more pressure on extremely

depleted systems with stimulants? So, yeah, I'm going to talk about a couple of

stimulating nerve ions in that respect.

Okay, so, yeah, nerve tonics.

Skull cap.

So I introduced skullcap in the case study for

Tom.

So it's like a wonderful nervous system tropho

restorative, full of B vitamins, contains gutilarian.

It's really fantastic for kind of neurotransmitters, for myelin sheath for kind

of all of these structural parts of our nervous system.

I'm a little bit worried that skolcap is very cooling and Eden is in that kind of cold

depression state, however, and also they don't need skullcap in the sense that they don't

need any more sedation.

However, I do think it's such a fantastic kind

of nerve tonic that it would be beneficial to still have it.

And it might mean that their sleep actually becomes a bit more restorative.

Like, we don't know why their sleep isn't restorative.

Like, after 9 hours sleep, you should feel much better.

Right.

But it's probably because of their system

being under so much duress.

So skullcap, for example, might help them

access deeper levels of sleep and also be kind of working on, like, repairing their systems

while they sleep.

So, yeah, I think it's a potential good

choice.

I wouldn't suggest it in the daytime because

of this kind of depressed, low resource kind of state.

Betany is another herb I talk about in the course.

So I really like Bettany with kind of like burnt out organizer types because Bettany is

kind of indicated for, like, stagnant depression, which is like this kind of state

of like, bitterness and resentment and irritation and, you know, like, if you think

of that kind of like grumpy manichist who goes to meetings and he's like irritated and tired

and burnt out and, you know, has had so much stress for decades and alcohol and, like, you

know, it's just kind of like this, like, yeah, kind of stagnant depression.

Bettany's, like, fantastic for, like, movement and kind of nourishing the liver.

So, yeah, I think Betany could be a good ally.

And I often, like, pair betany with vervain as

vervain's, like, quite similar.

I kind of see them as quite similar.

Obviously they're different, but vervain is like a really amazing tonic for people who are

just, yeah, just like chronically burn out and just have endured a lot of stress.

Like, vervain's very kind of nourishing to the nervous system.

Like, specifically evening primrose is another plant I talk about in the course.

It could be good, especially because of the essential fatty acid content.

And, yeah, this again is something I talk about in the course, but especially for

vegans.

You know, I'm a long term vegan.

I've been vegandae 22 years.

And, yeah, like, there is often a kind of

deficiency of, like, healthy fats.

So it's really important that vegans get olive

oil and nuts and avocados and seeds, you know, like, high fat content.

But often with vegans, there's often, well, like, with all sorts of people, not just

vegans, but people without the kind of fatty acid mix.

Like, can really contribute quite intensely to anxiety, especially if there's, like a kind of

omega three, omega six kind of discrepancy.

Um, so, yeah, evening primrose could be really

good for them.

Licorice is an option.

You know, they're not on any medication.

I don't.

I like to give licorice as part of blends.

It's always traditionally been something that

you include in a mix to help, you know, sweeten it.

For example, licorice is very sweet, and sweetness is kind of, you know, something that

our nervous system craves.

And licorice is really outstanding when it

comes to this kind of HPA axis support, this kind of adrenal insufficiency in recovering.

For some people, it can be too stimulating, and for others, it can be too kind of

moistening.

But I think with this person, I kind of get

the impression that they're quite kind of, like, exhausted and burnt out and brittle.

And again, for that brittleness, we're thinking milky oats.

Like I mentioned in Tom's case study, milky oats is just fantastic long term nerve tonic.

Like, so strengthening for the system.

Yeah.

Frayed nerves, love.

It would definitely include milky oats in

there, but everything I've kind of mentioned has been quite cold and cooling.

So I would definitely, for someone in this kind of state, want to include some kind of

warming or, like, uplifting plants.

So, for example, schisandra is.

Yeah, kind of warming and nourishing and also, like, strongly indicated for, you know, for

the HPA access for the adrenals.

Again, it could potentially be, like, a little

bit stimulating if they are more in a state of high activation in a freeze response.

But I think if they're more in this kind of shutdown response, I think Sandra could kind

of give them that little bit of energy.

But it's not like a kind of false energy, it's

not like a ginseng kind of extreme stimulant energy.

It's like a very kind of nourishing tonic energy.

I also think St. John's wort like they're nothing taking any medication, so there's no

kind of risks.

I think St. John's war is fantastic for people

who are sort of just a bit gloomy, you know, like they are burnt out at the kind of horrors

of the world.

And are a bit joyless.

Like, I've definitely been in that place a lot where, yeah, everything just feels heavy and

draining.

You know, like your whole life is prison

visits or fighting new prisons or, you know, dealing with, like, caring responsibilities.

Like, there's no kind of, like, fun or pleasure.

And St. John's Walt is really kind of uplifting.

It's kind of got loads of research around it, which I talk about in the course.

So, like, each plant profile, I kind of try to share clinical studies that I've come across.

I don't include ones that are, like, animal based trials because of my kind of ethics

around vivisection, animal testing.

So I tend to try and just draw on human

trials.

And, yeah, there's definitely lots of kind of

comparative trials between St. John's wort and Prozac, for example, and St. John's wort and

placebos, and generally been quite effective at that kind of antidepressant action.

Another kind of uplifting herb might be like tulsi.

So this can really help with kind of clearing brain fog.

Very kind of strengthening.

Also warming and uplifting.

I think if someone's done a lot of kind of like, intellectual labor, they're quite

cerebrally exhausted.

They can't handle another meeting or more

minutes or more tasks or more responsibilities, I think, but they still need

to function.

I think tulsi is great because it helps with

that focus and concentration, but in a really gentle way, not in a coffee way.

And it might give them a bit of stimulation that they need.

Rosemary is similar in terms of a cerebral stimulant and is uplifting.

Sage.

I wouldn't give sage long term because it's

extremely strong.

But as a short term thing, as part of one

blend, it might be a kind of good kind of warming herb to include lemon balm is, you

know, is our kind of gentle relaxant, but it's got this, like, uplifting kind of joyful

energy.

Similarly, like, lavender can be a bit cold,

but it's also kind of uplifting for the kind of spirits and for the mood.

And, yeah, with kind of Eden's constitution, you're going to be a little bit cautious of

too many, like, cooling, sedating nerve lines, which is where I think.

I think some people can go wrong with herbs.

It's like they feel depressed and stressed,

and then they end up taking a lot of cooling plants.

And actually, it's not compatible for them and their constitution.

If you're like a massive hothead like me, my whole sort of personal materia medico is all

kind of cooling plants, but I could literally be wearing a strappy top in the winter.

And someone might have a lot of false heat as well from allergies and inflammation.

But constitutionally, someone just might be quite warm and really need those cooling

calming nerve, whereas for other people they're just too cold and these plants are too

cooling.

So having these like, warming nerve ions is

really important.

And, you know, for things they've experienced

as well, like nervous system wise, I would just, because I'm an absolute **** for them.

I would include like rose and hawthorn, for example, for strengthening their systems.

Like Hawthorn is extremely nourishing for the blood vessels and for the whole system, but

also just like this kind of.

Yeah, support for grief.

Like, I think people think that burnout is from overworking, but it's really from often

an over feeling.

Right?

Like from witnessing too much pain and trauma and suffering that your heart just cannot take

it anymore.

So, yeah, I think herbs that help with that

grief is really important.

And you can listen to the herbal allies for

grief episode for a bit more kind of depth and context about those plants.

All of these herbs I have really extensive profiles for in the course.

Okay, so digestion, what's going on for Eden? So they're saying that they don't have an

appetite.

So something's not working right down there.

Like it's very, yeah, it's very common for people to not have an appetite when I, they

haven't had access to this parasympathetic time where their body is kind of signalling to

have certain enzymes produced that can make them feel hunger.

You know, people often don't have an appetite when they're kind of dissociated from their

bodies as well, in terms of trauma.

So, yeah, we're kind of wanting some kind of

like gentle bitters that can kind of sort of holistically generate a bit of an appetite to

kind of signal that they need to eat.

And the bitters are like really fantastic

category of plants that kind of help digestion in general.

So, yeah, I would be thinking like chamomile, for example.

Bettany and vervain are really lovely gentle bitters.

You're not going to take them and feel like sick the way you would.

I don't have a profile of dandelion in the course, but for example, dandelions like a

really strong bitter.

And most people, you know, eat the leaves and

they're like.

But like, you know, wild food fanatics love

that bitter taste.

It's like a really common taste in the plant

world.

But yeah, we might be thinking of something a

little bit more subtle just to help that system go in.

Yeah, again, you know, everything's like multifunctional.

Right.

So Hawthorn is like helping the kind of gut

lining like rose has like a real like probiotic support option as well.

So yeah, I would be including those nutritionally, like, I think a little bit

similar to Tom.

If they've been in this like, long term state

of depletion, then I would want to be thinking about like nutritive herbs, like, you know,

nettles and oat straw, for example, like rose hips and hawthorn berries and elderberries.

Like, again, just these, like really rich, like, anti, antioxidants to kind of support

their system.

And, yeah, as a long term vegan, without

taking supplements, I would be severely concerned about b twelve deficiency.

All sorts of people have b twelve deficiencies, not just people who don't eat

animals.

So yeah, I would be getting really high

quality b twelve supplements.

My personal favorite is the, like, yarrow

supplements, like J A R, Rhenna.

I think they're fantastic.

They go under the tongue.

They taste delicious.

I've seen people just completely transform their lives by taking adequate levels of b

twelve.

It might be in Eden's case that I would

recommend for them to get the injection directly into their stomach.

But yeah, I talk about it in the PTSD course.

But b twelve deficiencies can cause severe

anxiety, severe fatigue, muscle pain, bone pain, insomnia.

Pretty much any, any, like, health symptom could be a b twelve deficiency.

Yeah, I'd also be thinking about vitamin D.

Any kind of.

Anyone that says fatigue, like if you do clinical herbalist training, fatigue is

actually a red flag.

Like, it could be something more serious like

cancer that you'd want to screen.

But yeah, I would be encouraging them to

supplement with vitamin D as well.

Like vitamin D is like a major factor in

depression.

Vitamin A, if they're vegan, is also something

that is difficult to get.

So potentially supplementing there or just

like having more brightly colored vegetables and things is really important.

And also, like, iron is probably.

I hate to say it like, I'm a proud vegan.

Do you know what I mean? But it is difficult.

Like, it's not.

Yeah, I wish.

I wish they could be separated, like, ideologically.

I think veganism is like, incredible.

Like, I think, you know, okay, this is such a,

like, side note off.

Like, I think it's, you know, like, I *******

despise, like, animals being kept in cages and tortures.

Like, I don't know where I am in terms of people like eating animals, because I think,

obviously indigenous groups have hunted animals and stuff, but they've also had a

reciprocal relationship with the land base and stuff, whereas, yeah, I think farming is

completely abhorrent.

And yeah, I've lived in a cage.

I don't want to subject any other being to that life.

But, yeah, but I think as a diet, it isn't the best.

And I wish we could divorce the nutrition from the propaganda, if that makes sense.

But anyway, side note.

But, yeah, I would be thinking about iron.

So, you know, maybe you could give Aidan some sort of, like, really delicious, like, iron

tonic, like with a kind of, you know, maybe some burdock like, root decoctions or

something that have, like, fantastic kind of prebiotic and probiotics and full of iron and,

you know, burdock and nettles and rose hips, for example.

Okay, I'm obviously a bit iron deficient because I'm, like, really craving those.

And I've talked about them, but no, I need to get my blood test done again after the baby.

Okay, so inflammation.

So they've obviously said that they have no

energy.

They've mentioned depression.

So often this can be a case of kind of literal brain inflammation.

So our kind of herbs that might be supportive include chamomile.

It's very kind of inflammation, kind of modulating.

Hawthorne, I've mentioned.

So, again, full of antioxidants, supportive of

the blood vessels.

Rose, again, supportive of blood vessels.

Bettany has this affinity, right, as a kind of getting blood flow to the head.

Milky oats also offers this kind of cognitive support, as does tulsi and Rosemary and sage,

like I've mentioned.

So, yeah, so in terms of eden, like, I think.

Yeah, like with someone with depression, like, it can be hard to do basic tasks like making a

decoction or making a strong infused tea, which involves taking this herb and this herb

and this herb.

So I'd want something easy and kind of simple

for them.

So I would, you know, I would maybe give them

kind of a more stimulating mix for the morning with our kind of things like schisandra and

St. John's wort, for example.

And then maybe something that can kind of,

even though they don't need help getting to sleep, is going to kind of be nourishing them

while they sleep, for example, skullcap or bettany or vervain.

And, yeah, I would probably try and stick to just a couple of blends and maybe.

Yeah, maybe like an iron tonic as well, or something really yummy kind of digestion,

nutrition orientated if they had the spoons, some sort of daily nourishing infusion would

be incredible.

But if they didn't, then just taking a swig of

these blends, I think, would really help.

Yeah.

And then again, like I mentioned in Tom's case study, the course really talks about all these

other things that we need to respond to grief, like, beyond plant medicines, like collective

responses to stress.

So, you know, maybe Eden needs to, like,

address their kind of dynamics and their collective and feel more collectively

supported.

Maybe they need to, you know, have.

Have counseling and process some of the kind of vicarious trauma that they've been through,

for example.

Yeah.

You know, they're feeling kind of disillusioned and depressed.

Like, maybe there's something they can do to help kind of connect with their why.

Right.

And, you know, sometimes I think it's not

always like.

It's like, the type of organizing that we want

to do.

So I remember talking to someone who'd been

really active in kind of climate change and, like, stuff against extreme energy, and they

were so burnt out from touring and workshops and, like, anything with, like, high levels of

communication and relationality, they were just, like, broken from it.

And they went on the sea shepherd, for example, like, you know, the project where

they're kind of sabotaging, like, whale hunts and stuff like that on ships because they

could literally just be there and chop vegetables and, like, it was easier for them,

like, brain wise, but they still felt they were, like, contributing to kind of, you know,

liberation somehow.

So, yeah, I think kind of, yeah, thinking and

reflecting on their work is probably really important so that they don't end up in the

same space and kind of, yeah, drawing on collective support and stuff.

But anyway, that's all in the course, and that's something for them to reflect on.

I hope this has been useful.

If you are like, what the hell are all these

plants? What do these words mean?

I really encourage you to join the herbalism, ptsd and traumatic stress course because

instead of seeing a herbalist, you could know all this stuff yourself and you could make

your own medicine, because I introduced medicine making and all the different options

and how to forage safely and sustainably and all that malarkey.

So, you know, you could turn your whole life around by, you know, drawing on some of these

incredible supports from herbs.

Okay, thanks for listening, and, yeah, don't

forget that the course isn't open for much longer, so please sign up if you're

interested.

Okay, thanks so much.

Take care.

Thanks so much for listening to the frontline

Herbalism podcast.

You can find the transcript, the links, all

the resources from the show at solidarity apothecary.org.org podcast.